Then maybe a good lore explanation for a Prop Hunt mode would be that RED/BLU (whichever team will be the hiders in-game) got a hold of Merasmus' disguising spell?
Shounic actually made a video about regular tf2 with upgrades Engineer became meta because his sentry upgrades were very cheap and very powerful, so the whole game came down to assisting engi or targeting him
@@YishaiBarr in mvm where you're only fighting robots, not players who will play around busters (or even if the busters ARE players and will play smart). Furthermore, engi doesn't have instant redeploy outside of mvm, meaning that if they're forced to pick up their building thats a lot of down time to redeploy where they could be killed
balloon race would be incredibly fun in casual, it would fit perfectly in with other payload race maps (which IMO should be added to the main map category than its own separate one, payload race is leagues more normal than something like mannpower or pass time and i just dont think it belongs there)
@@Awesomeness-iz3dh Yeah, balance is desperately needed. On the pirate one, the only balancing factor after the first point is that Red team is stopped for like 20 seconds from moving forward. But if Red team doesn't reach the first point before it gets capped, Red never gets stopped and has such a big time advantage that the next 2 points are just unquestionably Red's.
Its a shame you didn't mention the medic vs engineer zombie gamemode cause its such a fun gamemode. Its essentially infected in tf2. engies being the survivors, and medics being the zombies. The main goal for engies is to survive until the round ends, and if they die they become a medic. The main goal for medics is kill all the engies. Engies can only build dispensers and teleporters which can be used for barricading and traversal, while medics are stuck with melee and can super jump. I honestly think its a pretty fun gamemode. You can try to team up with other engies make a place to hold out until the round ends, or you could try hiding in spot on your own, or you could just try to find the most busted spot where the zombies' super jump cant get to normally. As for its compatibility with causal... lol idk. Its pretty far from the TF2 formula that you mentioned it probably would need a lot of changes to work. Half of the arsenal for the engies are pretty much garbage so maybe there could be some weapon tweaking, other than that i dont really know. I personally really enjoy the gamemode and wish more servers were running it, or just people playing it in general.
Yeah I love that gamemode also, I played on Rushy's servers and every weekend they have some wacky maps and I love bumper car maps and the doom map(you basically run very fast). They also have some weapon balances there so every weapon is at least somewhat viable, but recently I found their servers to be dead and I don't play as often as back then. There are also engis that appears to help you defend the fort, but actually has an escape tele somewhere else, when the zombies destroy the nest they just slip away with their eureka effect, and sometimes the medics would find the escape tele and kill them right after they teleport.
Indeed. In terms of different gameplay there isn't much, but the focus is on building up a wall of defenses as a solo engie cannot win against the medics for long.@@someonestolemyname You live together or die together, and you just don't see that kind of close-knit teamwork in tf2 all too often.
I live in malaysia and here in asea there's a community mve server that I love playing on. I keep seeing the same ppl which just adds to the charm. shame the gm isn't that popular in comparison to class wars or randomizer or sm
Judging from a recent teaser from Diva Dan, a TF2 mapper, I am pretty sure they are trying to make Zombie Fortress a thing (for Scream Fortress, anyway)
@@Anarqismcould you share the IP? It's rare to see TF2 community servers from SEA since most people there either play dota2 or CSGO more than TF2 when it comes to source engine games
Yes yes we all watched the Shounic video. Sentry busters my dude, that’s why they exist in mvm. Or just Nerf engineer’s upgrade cost/power, doesn’t have to be 1:1 mvm upgrade behavior
Not true. UberUpgrades (when done right) has counters for E V E R Y T H I N G. Something I did to torture an Engi? I made a sapper with an absurd amount of health, so it could never be whacked off, but I *didn't* upgrade damage at all, and I gave it life leech. *SO*, if you upgrade your buildings to have a lot more health (which you will have to otherwise they will get destroyed very easily), then you will be permanently stopped from using your buildings FOREVER, because you can't destroy them, and you can't destroy the constantly healing sapper. Trust me friend... THERE ARE WAYS.
As the person above said, i dont think these modes need major changes. Mannpower is balanced-ish, the idea itself is just too out of place. Pass time may need some tweaking to make it more than the scout gamemode, but otherwise its fine as is.
@@he3004what do you think of the changes made to Mannpower a couple of years ago, such as the powerup nerfs, revenge crits and dominating player's weakness?
I'm not sure exactly what it's called but there is a zombie mode that I remember muslk playing back in the day. It was engineers that couldn't build sentries as survivors and medic without Uber guns as zombies, it was on normal maps, and the goal was to survive as long as possible or kill all the survivors. Just like in vsh, the last survivor gets crits and over time the zombies get things like jump boost and additional damage.
UberUpgrades is my favorite gamemode. There’s a server called Happyland that has its own little community, and the owner “PCGamer” has put a lot of love into it. Probably the only reason I even play this game anymore.
I forgot about class wars. But yeah. Please add class wars to TF2 Valve, just think of the just voice line opportunities! You could have shit like "YEAH LETS GO ME, I MEAN TEAM!" for Scout for instance!
Ima be honest, a lot of the gamemodes in tier 3 would make a fucking awesome scream fortress update. Also the idea I got from S.Z.F is that yes it's just left for dead in tf2, but I think that's why people play it, you get to mess with tf2 weapons in a l4d environment (i've never played it though lmao). I honestly think that a zombie survival tf2 map could rock, especially if it was a part of a scream fortress update or somtin. I just like zombie survival stuff tbh tho.
I was watching the video in 0.75x speed for some reason, and didn't realize until I saw how slow Scout's attack on Sniper at 1:45 was paired with how slow Great Blue's voice was... So fun fact ig
That gungame thing in which team steal kills is why every other game, like cod (where it and possibly prop hunt (its either gmod or cod being its origination) originated from iirc) has it always as free for all.
In real life Dodgeball, eliminated players can get back into the game if their teammates catch the ball. Players return in the order that they got eliminated. Maybe in an official version of TF2 Dodgeball, they could implement some kind of sub-objective that causes players to respawn.
I remember there was an old version of Zombie fortress which had both the survivor team and the zombie team choose perks of... Questionable balance? Usually it was either escape or survive, which means a good percent of the time the survivors would all hole up in a corner with a dispenser and become impossible to approach. There were supposed to be perks like Toxic or Explosive to counter this, but it didn't exactly work when you could just outheal it. Dunno what happened to those maps. It seems like Super Zombie Fortress and Zombie Escape took its place in spite of being entirely different experiences.
Yeah there's an insane amount of games with a 'prop hunt' game mode or something similar. Probably one of my favorite modes across games. Always love finding weird spots in maps or just blending in well, and this is the game where I first played it.
Woah, Stop that Tank! still around? I've played them in the past but I kinda miss it. Wanted to play it again a few days ago but couldn't find any server running it. iirc there was an alternative version of the mod where it worked exactly the same, but instead of payload, it was a payload race
2:45 Considering vscript is tied directly to the map, it's unlikely that a class wars gamemode would copy dustbowl's map design. It would be interesting to see how a map designed specifically for class wars would look. The designer would have to account for the possibility of there being 12 of any given class. It would be paramount to ensure not only that every class is capable of shining in the map, but also that no class would be capable of dominating it. You'd need open areas and choke points for DPS classes and Sniper to shut down, but also have a bunch of alternative routes flank classes can close the distance with that can't be locked down by any of the other classes (namely sniper, demoman, and engineer). Lots of platforms for high-mobility classes, but short walking distances for a team entirely composed of Heavies. Due to how many of the classes' needs contradict each other, it might be necessary for the map to be dynamic, changing depending on which class comprises which team, similar to how, and it pains me to say this, tc_hydro changes depending on which two control points are in play. ADDENDUM: because the map would be designed specifically for Class Wars, a surrender option shouldn't be necessary. If one team is at a major advantage/disadvantage, the map was designed wrong.
I feel like jailbreak was explained poorly and was misrepresented (though I agree it can't be a casual mode) Jailbreak is probably my favourite community mode, to the extent I even created a few amateur jailbreak maps (which is what I did when I was dead). Jailbreak is primarily a social game mode, and your enjoyment can only get as good as the people that you are playing with, and the server's rules and moderation team. Prisoner's (reds) also actually have 2 main objectives: Rebelling, or be the last non-rebeller alive. Prisoner's that follow the warden's orders, completing a series of minigames, and are left as the last one alive get last request. Last request dictates what should happen the next round, such as a freeday that allowes prisoners the exemption to follow the warden and do what they like the next round, apply modifiers to he round such as guards melee only, or a custom request, like what minigame is played the next round. Unfortunately I haven't been able to play jailbreak since there doesn't seem to be any good servers to play on anymore (at least within my ping range) and the experience is further ruined when you have really try hard players (especially on blue team) that try and get all the reds dead as quick as possible to give last request as fast as possible. That said, it isn't for everyone for sure, especially since it can take some time getting known within a community.
I think "Jailbreak" also goes by "Cops and Robbers" which I would be genuinely surprised if you said you've never heard of it. Your concerns on it as a gamemode are completely valid, though, not everybody wants to roleplay.
TBF, adding the Vagineer and having them purchase Millionaire's holiday (you got to add that song if you add the Brutal Sniper), would move us a step closer to the best timeline.
@@CharaGonzalez-lt7yw its a joke man. I just found it funny when Blue lost it at the Vagineer.... I still want the song from the Sniper ingame though....
It would be cool to have an extra tab in the casual queue called "community modes" which rotates an officially added community mode every few days or so. This encourages players to try something new, the game would feel fresh every few days. And the community servers running it wont lose their playerbase because there's an official version of the mode running 24/7 in casual.
if prop hunt were added i think you'd need specific maps for it, where some of the props can be in different locations each round so it isn't just a game of 'memorize where every milk bottle is'
I think a lot of the problems you have with these modes sums up to "its bad in sourcemod" or "the way it works in community isnt compatible with casual", but like, these would obviously change if they were officially added. VSH wasnt a direct sourcemod port. It had changes to clean it up to a more official type of quality. Smash Fortress, Prop Hunt, Dodgeball, would all be amazing additions if they were polished in the same way. Yeah, Sourcemod is finnicky. Its Sourcemod. Sourcemod developers dont have the ability to code things in the same way Vscript allows, so comparing them in this way feels highly unfair.
I think dodgeball could work, if you had some sort of a tournament mode. Players go against one another at the same time. Basically 12 games running in parallel. Every time your match ends you go against another player. This would reduce wait times and you don't have to fight the same person all of the time. A win would grant you one point and the player with the most points by end of some time wins. This could also work with 2 player teams.
Only problem I see with class wars is: what section of casual would it go in? A solution would be to add a check mark under “alternative game modes” then check the general game maps you want to play(so in order to get CP_dustbowl_classwars, you need to check BOTH class wars AND Dustbowl under Control points
I had one actually pretty fun time on Jailbreak where I broke away early, then while the warden (Last guard alive at that point) was doing First Reaction Last Reaction, I snuck up and killed em, becoming the Hero of the Server for approximately 8 seconds
I think prop-hunt would be cool, but I think the props need an in-universe reason to be disguising (like how VSH has the mercs fighting Hale for the company) Maybe the prop disguises are magic spells, or there's a curse, maybe it's related to Merasmus or whatever else But that's also the reason it probably won't be added, sadly
There is one game mode that is actually played alot called zombie escape engineers vs medics which would work bc its basically infected from halo. It would need some tweaking and polish like some new models and all that but it would be cool to have that
You forgot a mode that I remember being quite popular back when it came out but dying off around the Uber Update: there was a Soccer themed mod where teams would have to shoot a Beach Ball like prop into the other team's goal, usually matches would devolve in Scout spam with a single Engineer holding the goal and occasionally Snipers and Heavies performing area denial duties. I remember it being overall quote fun if chaotic, since you could still kill other players and you had a semblance of team strategies, respawn times were also very short and the maps very large and open, so spawn camping was very hard to do.
The thing with jailbreak is it's not strictly meant to have a goal, it's literally just roleplay. If anything, it works better in gmod, but I guess people like the tf2 characters / style more. The goal is whatever you want it to be, or whatever the warden wants it to be, I guess.
I think that many of the lower tier modes I.e MGE pyro dodgeball jump maps and surf could be used excellently as queue game modes like how overwatch has skirmish and deathmatch available as "while you wait" modes I believe these modes would be great at this role due to their small time requirement and limited replayability it would also serve as good warm-ups for queueing, mge and dodgeball in particular
they should definetly add cp orange (x4 in particular due to balance but would also need some changes to include more cover), imo its such a cult classic, many many people know about it, and I know I spent AT LEAST a thousand hours on these maps
According to the wiki Jailbreak is based on a Counter-Strike game mode of the same name? But I literally never heard of this game mode outside of TF2. And when I have to start looking up the wiki in order to find out how to play you've already failed.
Yes, jailbreak originated in community servers from the CS 1.6 era. They were pretty much the same as TF2 jailbreak. Guards had weapons and the prisoners only had knifes. The implied goal of the prisoners was to break free and enter the ammo room to kill all guards. I despise that gamemode, it's so damn boring to play as either guards or prisoners.
A shame there was no mention of Slender Fortress, despite the many, many, MANY issues it would present actually having in Casual, especially those in a similar vein to why Freak Fortress wouldn't be a thing either, given its plentiful use of copyrighted material for bosses. But it is still a very interesting gamemode, unique for it's near complete separation from the standard TF2 format and a further unique nature as one of the only gamemodes out there with a primary focus on PvE content. It would need utter sweeps of changes to even have a chance of working, including custom boss pools per map with bosses that stick closer to the TF2 theming among other things.
very interesting would be engineer fortress, basically reverse mvm, usually run on cp or payload, you're fighting a whole team of engie bots on defense. YER is very fun lol
i feel like Uber Upgrades would need to have something to allow more ranged classes to be viable. something along maybe you do get a fraction of money on kill, and also cash drops. maybe make it so headshots from sniper give you full money? something along those lines.
I think tweaking prop hunt to fit in lore could be easy, just say scout stole an enemy spy's disguise kit and broke it so it only turned into objects, now everyone's mad trying to find multiple of him since he somehow also broke a teleporter and duplicated himself. Taunting also makes sense, it's scout after all Alternatively, you could say he stole a prototype disguise kit engie was working on As for balloon race, I think the sniper issue could be somewhat mitigated by having multiple smaller balloons following the one that's furthest behind, allowing them to catch up by lowing the amount of sightlines sniper has, along with other balloons moving along the track. Changing up the entire map is kinda difficult, because you need room for the larger balloons to move around, so this was the only thing I could think of
GunGame is the kind of gamemode that can REALLY benefit from a Free-For-All option, no teams, it's every merc for themselves and that tends to be how GunGame is operated in some circles, a Free-For-All gamemode where everyone can be a kill. Edit: oh, and here's an idea to balance defense Engineers (and I KNOW people will get angry, but I don't care) Engineers can ONLY build level 1 Sentries.
Personally, I think Surf, Jump maps, & MGE could work very well in casual. They can be seen as "training" modes and chill casual environments, especially if you enable all-talk. They don't need to change the map after X rounds or whatever, like VSH was on launch, and can instead go based on a server wide time limit for the map. Every 30 minutes or so (MGE less so). Those types of modes don't even need much vscript functionality. When I think of MGE in casual, I think more like the 1v1 mode in CSGO. You have X amount of players on a server, you 1v1 other players and every round you get a new opponent. Ideally, a 1v1 mode would look like this: Say you have 12 people in a server. Player 1 v Player 2, Player 3 v 4, etc. After each round, you move up in a bracket style. So round 2 would be player 1 v player 3, player 2 v player 4, etc. I think this type of mode would be much better than traditional MGE and still functions as the same thing effectively. Otherwise, traditional MGE wouldn't be impossible to implement into vscript and a lot of the functionality of the mode would need to be built into the maps themselves (like picking an arena).
31:00 what if instead of arena mode it was like elimination count, where the team to win is the team to get N amount of kills and you respawn like every 20 seconds or something like that
The arguments you said to not add Deathrun could be very much used for Prophunt (in casual you expect shooting, long respawn times if you're unlucky...). That's why I think Prophunt should be Tier 3 tbh. And for another gamemodes: Bball is another fun gamemode, but the same arguments for Dodgeball could be used for it. I really like Ultiduo, but it's heavily restricted to 2 classes and it's basically koth, so probably it doesn't add something interesting to casual.
I hope they rework the map select screen since misc maps are always the least played map. Perhaps randomize the order or modes where capture point isn’t always the first game type.
Wait, jailbreak's purpose isn't to break the jail? I thought that was a super objective. Cop minigames was just time waster until prisoner run away and get ammo and start caos and let other prisoners to escape so they can kill other cops. One time I managed to run from the cops line of sight, and there were three cops in the map. One of them was idle and near the spawn room, away from the eyes of players, so the other cop was waiting for him near prisoner spawn. I went back to kill the idle cop with ''your eternal reward'' knife, and that was the only way to get disguse as spy in the gamemod btw. The idle cop thought the game was bugged out because I was disgused as a cop, so he turned around and told what to do prisoners, and as soon as they turn around I made a sick double backstab combo and I win the game. It was super satisfying. Funnily enough, I was super new to TF2 at that time, and I understood what the point of the game was, but I randomly stopped playing it and never played that mod again. I had some moments but game get boring because when you die you die for good, also it was a long time ago too.
balloon race is a very cool idea to me but I would just completely remove snipers or not allow them to use a sniper rifle instead being able to use a bow
I feel like Jailbreak is basically a weird psychological test for people. It's kinda reminiscent of the Stanford Prison Experiment where a bunch of young adults basically went on a power trip. Some of the prisoners suffered mental breakdowns and scarring, but in general the ethics of the experiment were dubious at best. So basically Jailbreak is just a videogame verison of that lmao.
I know it's billed as it's own gamemode, and run by itself in servers, but isn't The Hidden, from a TF2 standpoint, just a variation of VSH? In any case, I'm pretty sure that if The Hidden was implemented in casual, it would be a character in VSH and not just it's own gamemode.
I was going to suggest fort wars. It's a really cool minigame where both teams have to build the forts themselves while holding onto a neutral intelligence for as long as possible... it's such a shame it's hardly ever talked about anymore.
It’s funny, I feel like I’ve played more jailbreak than any other game mode, played it so much back in 2012 when I clocked like 300 of my 400 tf2 hours, good times
Honestly you could have just boiled down either version of surf to 'if the entire mode is based around a physics exploit, probably doesn't belong in a list labelled 'Casual''.
Dodgeball current format isnt for casual players either way is more competitive than casual. There is a new concept where instead of arena mode is Free For All with respawns where you constantly play dodgeball until timer runs out. Which is bit more casual playing then the generic format.
I support this, but I would suggest also a rotating map ban, where certain maps like 2fort and Hightower, would not be playable on valve causal servers. This would force casual players to play on other maps and modes.
what about old TF2 Zombie Game which is engies on red (as the humans) vs. medics on blue (as the zombies). Engines cannot build sentries, but can build all other buildings. Medics have 50 increased health but can only use melee, and they are made taller. Whe an the engie dies, they switch teams to blue team and become a medic and thus is a last man standing game mode. Also the last 3 engies recieve minicrits to all weapons, and the last engie recieves full crits.
Modes like Jail Break are best played with a group of friends, and obviously aren't competitive. It's ALMOST just rp, but there is an endgame for the prisoners so idk. Very fun for screwing around with some friends in a discord call, but playing this with strangers seems very odd.
halloween gamemodes are really weird and balance is practically half ignored, so i think some gamemodes tier 2 and higher would work for halloween modes tbh
Even if they were added I'm pretty sure most would still rot in misc due to casual's horrible presentation and we'd see the amount of... normal gammemodes.
my most played comunity mode is jailbreak but even then all i do there is be the biggest smartass to ever smartass (get on the wrong red line and argue they “needed to specify”/leave the armory door open… that sort of thing)
Fun Fact: Merasmus' transformation ability where he turns into miscellaneous props is an intentional reference to prop hunt
I never knew that thank you for sharing that!
Then maybe a good lore explanation for a Prop Hunt mode would be that RED/BLU (whichever team will be the hiders in-game) got a hold of Merasmus' disguising spell?
@@reptiliannoizezz.413 true! very good idea
Fun Fact: Merasmus' existence ability where he literally just exists is an intentional reference to Merasmus.
@@autotec-20holy no wat that’s a real hard reference to discovering
Shounic actually made a video about regular tf2 with upgrades
Engineer became meta because his sentry upgrades were very cheap and very powerful, so the whole game came down to assisting engi or targeting him
Simple answer: busters. That’s why they exist in mvm
@@yoshifan2334 Busters are quite easy to kill or deceive.
@@YishaiBarr in mvm where you're only fighting robots, not players who will play around busters (or even if the busters ARE players and will play smart). Furthermore, engi doesn't have instant redeploy outside of mvm, meaning that if they're forced to pick up their building thats a lot of down time to redeploy where they could be killed
@@yoshifan2334 Yes, but it's also 12v12 instead of an entire wave v6 and enough people could overwhelm the busters or the other team.
@@YishaiBarr buff busters then, or let them spawn multiple at a time instead of only 1. it's really not a super complicated problem
balloon race would be incredibly fun in casual, it would fit perfectly in with other payload race maps (which IMO should be added to the main map category than its own separate one, payload race is leagues more normal than something like mannpower or pass time and i just dont think it belongs there)
If Balloon Race could be polished up to TF2's official standards and have more balanced maps, I'd play the shit out of it.
Although the problem I can see with balloon race is that the sniper is really powerful given how big and wide the maps are
@@Awesomeness-iz3dh Yeah, balance is desperately needed. On the pirate one, the only balancing factor after the first point is that Red team is stopped for like 20 seconds from moving forward. But if Red team doesn't reach the first point before it gets capped, Red never gets stopped and has such a big time advantage that the next 2 points are just unquestionably Red's.
Frontier exists so that's already something similar
@Ze_eT just remove sniper from the game lol
Its a shame you didn't mention the medic vs engineer zombie gamemode cause its such a fun gamemode. Its essentially infected in tf2. engies being the survivors, and medics being the zombies.
The main goal for engies is to survive until the round ends, and if they die they become a medic. The main goal for medics is kill all the engies. Engies can only build dispensers and teleporters which can be used for barricading and traversal, while medics are stuck with melee and can super jump. I honestly think its a pretty fun gamemode. You can try to team up with other engies make a place to hold out until the round ends, or you could try hiding in spot on your own, or you could just try to find the most busted spot where the zombies' super jump cant get to normally.
As for its compatibility with causal... lol idk. Its pretty far from the TF2 formula that you mentioned it probably would need a lot of changes to work. Half of the arsenal for the engies are pretty much garbage so maybe there could be some weapon tweaking, other than that i dont really know. I personally really enjoy the gamemode and wish more servers were running it, or just people playing it in general.
Yeah I love that gamemode also, I played on Rushy's servers and every weekend they have some wacky maps and I love bumper car maps and the doom map(you basically run very fast).
They also have some weapon balances there so every weapon is at least somewhat viable, but recently I found their servers to be dead and I don't play as often as back then.
There are also engis that appears to help you defend the fort, but actually has an escape tele somewhere else, when the zombies destroy the nest they just slip away with their eureka effect, and sometimes the medics would find the escape tele and kill them right after they teleport.
Indeed. In terms of different gameplay there isn't much, but the focus is on building up a wall of defenses as a solo engie cannot win against the medics for long.@@someonestolemyname You live together or die together, and you just don't see that kind of close-knit teamwork in tf2 all too often.
I live in malaysia and here in asea there's a community mve server that I love playing on. I keep seeing the same ppl which just adds to the charm.
shame the gm isn't that popular in comparison to class wars or randomizer or sm
Judging from a recent teaser from Diva Dan, a TF2 mapper, I am pretty sure they are trying to make Zombie Fortress a thing (for Scream Fortress, anyway)
@@Anarqismcould you share the IP?
It's rare to see TF2 community servers from SEA since most people there either play dota2 or CSGO more than TF2 when it comes to source engine games
Community gamemodes in tf2 have always been a strange case to me
On one hand it's nice to have a change of pace from regular tf2 but on the other hand it can be too chaotic at times
I was gonna say that :(
yo blue ban this fella
Ya beat us all to it
@@Astro-NATTAnd I always thought it would be neat if something like 100x server would have a little more identity than 10x server but 10 times more
If Uber Upgrades was more like MvM, it would be completely centralized around the Engineer and defense almost always wins.
So make it on a map that requires both attacking and defense ( or just nerf engi)
Yes yes we all watched the Shounic video. Sentry busters my dude, that’s why they exist in mvm. Or just Nerf engineer’s upgrade cost/power, doesn’t have to be 1:1 mvm upgrade behavior
Not true. UberUpgrades (when done right) has counters for E V E R Y T H I N G. Something I did to torture an Engi? I made a sapper with an absurd amount of health, so it could never be whacked off, but I *didn't* upgrade damage at all, and I gave it life leech. *SO*, if you upgrade your buildings to have a lot more health (which you will have to otherwise they will get destroyed very easily), then you will be permanently stopped from using your buildings FOREVER, because you can't destroy them, and you can't destroy the constantly healing sapper. Trust me friend... THERE ARE WAYS.
I think they should rework pass time and mannpower, it will be better if community will take care of its own modes
as a mannpower enjoyer, mannpower is fine as is and shouldn't be changed, I suggest you go in there and play it a while, it's pretty fun
As the person above said, i dont think these modes need major changes. Mannpower is balanced-ish, the idea itself is just too out of place. Pass time may need some tweaking to make it more than the scout gamemode, but otherwise its fine as is.
@@he3004what do you think of the changes made to Mannpower a couple of years ago, such as the powerup nerfs, revenge crits and dominating player's weakness?
I FUGGIN LOOVE PASSTIME 💕 ❤️ 💖
Unfortunately a 3rd party studio made it so Valve literally cannot do anything with it tragically
the one time i got in a mannpower lobby i was immediately kicked by the overwhelming amount of bots
I'm not sure exactly what it's called but there is a zombie mode that I remember muslk playing back in the day. It was engineers that couldn't build sentries as survivors and medic without Uber guns as zombies, it was on normal maps, and the goal was to survive as long as possible or kill all the survivors. Just like in vsh, the last survivor gets crits and over time the zombies get things like jump boost and additional damage.
UberUpgrades is my favorite gamemode. There’s a server called Happyland that has its own little community, and the owner “PCGamer” has put a lot of love into it. Probably the only reason I even play this game anymore.
I forgot about class wars. But yeah. Please add class wars to TF2 Valve, just think of the just voice line opportunities! You could have shit like "YEAH LETS GO ME, I MEAN TEAM!" for Scout for instance!
Ima be honest, a lot of the gamemodes in tier 3 would make a fucking awesome scream fortress update. Also the idea I got from S.Z.F is that yes it's just left for dead in tf2, but I think that's why people play it, you get to mess with tf2 weapons in a l4d environment (i've never played it though lmao). I honestly think that a zombie survival tf2 map could rock, especially if it was a part of a scream fortress update or somtin. I just like zombie survival stuff tbh tho.
i like how switching classes in gun game would need some narrative and backstory when prophunt doesn't
I was watching the video in 0.75x speed for some reason, and didn't realize until I saw how slow Scout's attack on Sniper at 1:45 was paired with how slow Great Blue's voice was... So fun fact ig
As someone who never understood Jailbreak even when I was 11, Great Blue's bitter contempt for it is very validating.
It's only fun when you're playing with friends or a community really
7:43 just a lil guy, why do you want him gone
That gungame thing in which team steal kills is why every other game, like cod (where it and possibly prop hunt (its either gmod or cod being its origination) originated from iirc) has it always as free for all.
Speaking of Stop that Tank, when Quickplay was around I distinctly remember servers running the mode appearing under the Payload section
Same lol
Once got into a x10 server that way
In real life Dodgeball, eliminated players can get back into the game if their teammates catch the ball. Players return in the order that they got eliminated. Maybe in an official version of TF2 Dodgeball, they could implement some kind of sub-objective that causes players to respawn.
can't wait to que for minecraft randomizer x100 freak fortress rp class wars 100% crits surf manpower mode in the next update!
I remember there was an old version of Zombie fortress which had both the survivor team and the zombie team choose perks of... Questionable balance? Usually it was either escape or survive, which means a good percent of the time the survivors would all hole up in a corner with a dispenser and become impossible to approach. There were supposed to be perks like Toxic or Explosive to counter this, but it didn't exactly work when you could just outheal it.
Dunno what happened to those maps. It seems like Super Zombie Fortress and Zombie Escape took its place in spite of being entirely different experiences.
Yeah there's an insane amount of games with a 'prop hunt' game mode or something similar.
Probably one of my favorite modes across games. Always love finding weird spots in maps or just blending in well, and this is the game where I first played it.
Woah, Stop that Tank! still around? I've played them in the past but I kinda miss it. Wanted to play it again a few days ago but couldn't find any server running it.
iirc there was an alternative version of the mod where it worked exactly the same, but instead of payload, it was a payload race
2:45 Considering vscript is tied directly to the map, it's unlikely that a class wars gamemode would copy dustbowl's map design. It would be interesting to see how a map designed specifically for class wars would look. The designer would have to account for the possibility of there being 12 of any given class. It would be paramount to ensure not only that every class is capable of shining in the map, but also that no class would be capable of dominating it. You'd need open areas and choke points for DPS classes and Sniper to shut down, but also have a bunch of alternative routes flank classes can close the distance with that can't be locked down by any of the other classes (namely sniper, demoman, and engineer). Lots of platforms for high-mobility classes, but short walking distances for a team entirely composed of Heavies.
Due to how many of the classes' needs contradict each other, it might be necessary for the map to be dynamic, changing depending on which class comprises which team, similar to how, and it pains me to say this, tc_hydro changes depending on which two control points are in play.
ADDENDUM: because the map would be designed specifically for Class Wars, a surrender option shouldn't be necessary. If one team is at a major advantage/disadvantage, the map was designed wrong.
I feel like jailbreak was explained poorly and was misrepresented (though I agree it can't be a casual mode)
Jailbreak is probably my favourite community mode, to the extent I even created a few amateur jailbreak maps (which is what I did when I was dead). Jailbreak is primarily a social game mode, and your enjoyment can only get as good as the people that you are playing with, and the server's rules and moderation team.
Prisoner's (reds) also actually have 2 main objectives: Rebelling, or be the last non-rebeller alive.
Prisoner's that follow the warden's orders, completing a series of minigames, and are left as the last one alive get last request. Last request dictates what should happen the next round, such as a freeday that allowes prisoners the exemption to follow the warden and do what they like the next round, apply modifiers to he round such as guards melee only, or a custom request, like what minigame is played the next round.
Unfortunately I haven't been able to play jailbreak since there doesn't seem to be any good servers to play on anymore (at least within my ping range) and the experience is further ruined when you have really try hard players (especially on blue team) that try and get all the reds dead as quick as possible to give last request as fast as possible.
That said, it isn't for everyone for sure, especially since it can take some time getting known within a community.
I think "Jailbreak" also goes by "Cops and Robbers" which I would be genuinely surprised if you said you've never heard of it. Your concerns on it as a gamemode are completely valid, though, not everybody wants to roleplay.
TBF, adding the Vagineer and having them purchase Millionaire's holiday (you got to add that song if you add the Brutal Sniper), would move us a step closer to the best timeline.
This is why I'm glad VALVE ignored the community. Adding an ugly model of the engi and a garbage game more is not the best timeline
@@CharaGonzalez-lt7yw its a joke man.
I just found it funny when Blue lost it at the Vagineer....
I still want the song from the Sniper ingame though....
The voice clip of Merasmus saying “Excellent” should play when you get a kill in gungame for the narrative
It would be cool to have an extra tab in the casual queue called "community modes" which rotates an officially added community mode every few days or so.
This encourages players to try something new, the game would feel fresh every few days. And the community servers running it wont lose their playerbase because there's an official version of the mode running 24/7 in casual.
What the point of a community servers in casual if there is the community tab?
I can totally imagine merasmus saying "magic!" And you magically switching classes after a kill.
if prop hunt were added i think you'd need specific maps for it, where some of the props can be in different locations each round so it isn't just a game of 'memorize where every milk bottle is'
I think a lot of the problems you have with these modes sums up to "its bad in sourcemod" or "the way it works in community isnt compatible with casual", but like, these would obviously change if they were officially added. VSH wasnt a direct sourcemod port. It had changes to clean it up to a more official type of quality. Smash Fortress, Prop Hunt, Dodgeball, would all be amazing additions if they were polished in the same way. Yeah, Sourcemod is finnicky. Its Sourcemod. Sourcemod developers dont have the ability to code things in the same way Vscript allows, so comparing them in this way feels highly unfair.
I think dodgeball could work, if you had some sort of a tournament mode. Players go against one another at the same time. Basically 12 games running in parallel. Every time your match ends you go against another player. This would reduce wait times and you don't have to fight the same person all of the time. A win would grant you one point and the player with the most points by end of some time wins. This could also work with 2 player teams.
7:46 Thank you my eyes aren't straining now!
One time I played class wars on defense. We were all spies and blue team was all engineers. A lot of mini sentries replaced and sapped.
Only problem I see with class wars is: what section of casual would it go in? A solution would be to add a check mark under “alternative game modes” then check the general game maps you want to play(so in order to get CP_dustbowl_classwars, you need to check BOTH class wars AND Dustbowl under Control points
I had one actually pretty fun time on Jailbreak where I broke away early, then while the warden (Last guard alive at that point) was doing First Reaction Last Reaction, I snuck up and killed em, becoming the Hero of the Server for approximately 8 seconds
GUYS LOOK ITS A GREAT BLUE
I think he sould make a video where he combines all of his ideas at the same time and theorises how broken the game will be.
I think prop-hunt would be cool, but I think the props need an in-universe reason to be disguising (like how VSH has the mercs fighting Hale for the company)
Maybe the prop disguises are magic spells, or there's a curse, maybe it's related to Merasmus or whatever else
But that's also the reason it probably won't be added, sadly
There is one game mode that is actually played alot called zombie escape engineers vs medics which would work bc its basically infected from halo. It would need some tweaking and polish like some new models and all that but it would be cool to have that
You forgot a mode that I remember being quite popular back when it came out but dying off around the Uber Update: there was a Soccer themed mod where teams would have to shoot a Beach Ball like prop into the other team's goal, usually matches would devolve in Scout spam with a single Engineer holding the goal and occasionally Snipers and Heavies performing area denial duties.
I remember it being overall quote fun if chaotic, since you could still kill other players and you had a semblance of team strategies, respawn times were also very short and the maps very large and open, so spawn camping was very hard to do.
The thing with jailbreak is it's not strictly meant to have a goal, it's literally just roleplay. If anything, it works better in gmod, but I guess people like the tf2 characters / style more. The goal is whatever you want it to be, or whatever the warden wants it to be, I guess.
add slender fortress, we exist
class wars must have rtd
jailbreak is fun, you kinda mixed up red n blu
I think that many of the lower tier modes I.e MGE pyro dodgeball jump maps and surf could be used excellently as queue game modes like how overwatch has skirmish and deathmatch available as "while you wait" modes I believe these modes would be great at this role due to their small time requirement and limited replayability it would also serve as good warm-ups for queueing, mge and dodgeball in particular
they should definetly add cp orange (x4 in particular due to balance but would also need some changes to include more cover), imo its such a cult classic, many many people know about it, and I know I spent AT LEAST a thousand hours on these maps
According to the wiki Jailbreak is based on a Counter-Strike game mode of the same name? But I literally never heard of this game mode outside of TF2. And when I have to start looking up the wiki in order to find out how to play you've already failed.
you can't use your ignorance as an argument, "well I haven't heard of it so therefore it won't work"
Yes, jailbreak originated in community servers from the CS 1.6 era. They were pretty much the same as TF2 jailbreak. Guards had weapons and the prisoners only had knifes. The implied goal of the prisoners was to break free and enter the ammo room to kill all guards. I despise that gamemode, it's so damn boring to play as either guards or prisoners.
Uber Upgrades sounds like a great MvM Upgrade Mode if it were like a MOBA.
The forgotten Asteroid was kinda like that.
A shame there was no mention of Slender Fortress, despite the many, many, MANY issues it would present actually having in Casual, especially those in a similar vein to why Freak Fortress wouldn't be a thing either, given its plentiful use of copyrighted material for bosses. But it is still a very interesting gamemode, unique for it's near complete separation from the standard TF2 format and a further unique nature as one of the only gamemodes out there with a primary focus on PvE content. It would need utter sweeps of changes to even have a chance of working, including custom boss pools per map with bosses that stick closer to the TF2 theming among other things.
very interesting would be engineer fortress, basically reverse mvm, usually run on cp or payload, you're fighting a whole team of engie bots on defense. YER is very fun lol
Balloon race is awesome when you’re hammered.
i feel like Uber Upgrades would need to have something to allow more ranged classes to be viable. something along maybe you do get a fraction of money on kill, and also cash drops. maybe make it so headshots from sniper give you full money? something along those lines.
I think tweaking prop hunt to fit in lore could be easy, just say scout stole an enemy spy's disguise kit and broke it so it only turned into objects, now everyone's mad trying to find multiple of him since he somehow also broke a teleporter and duplicated himself. Taunting also makes sense, it's scout after all
Alternatively, you could say he stole a prototype disguise kit engie was working on
As for balloon race, I think the sniper issue could be somewhat mitigated by having multiple smaller balloons following the one that's furthest behind, allowing them to catch up by lowing the amount of sightlines sniper has, along with other balloons moving along the track. Changing up the entire map is kinda difficult, because you need room for the larger balloons to move around, so this was the only thing I could think of
Holy shit I completely forgot about Balloon Race. That game mode was so wacky way back in the day.
Gamemodes in tf2 have always been a strange case to me
Prop Hunt/Hide and Seek with more lenient player clipping would be so much fun
The meta reason for zombie fortress falls apart when you realize that they sell both left for deads for dirt cheap at every single event sale.
YES! NEW 30+ MINUTE VIDEO BY GREAT BLUE IN THE FROM OF A TIERLIST
GunGame is the kind of gamemode that can REALLY benefit from a Free-For-All option, no teams, it's every merc for themselves and that tends to be how GunGame is operated in some circles, a Free-For-All gamemode where everyone can be a kill.
Edit: oh, and here's an idea to balance defense Engineers (and I KNOW people will get angry, but I don't care) Engineers can ONLY build level 1 Sentries.
Personally, I think Surf, Jump maps, & MGE could work very well in casual. They can be seen as "training" modes and chill casual environments, especially if you enable all-talk. They don't need to change the map after X rounds or whatever, like VSH was on launch, and can instead go based on a server wide time limit for the map. Every 30 minutes or so (MGE less so). Those types of modes don't even need much vscript functionality.
When I think of MGE in casual, I think more like the 1v1 mode in CSGO. You have X amount of players on a server, you 1v1 other players and every round you get a new opponent.
Ideally, a 1v1 mode would look like this: Say you have 12 people in a server. Player 1 v Player 2, Player 3 v 4, etc. After each round, you move up in a bracket style. So round 2 would be player 1 v player 3, player 2 v player 4, etc.
I think this type of mode would be much better than traditional MGE and still functions as the same thing effectively. Otherwise, traditional MGE wouldn't be impossible to implement into vscript and a lot of the functionality of the mode would need to be built into the maps themselves (like picking an arena).
31:00 what if instead of arena mode it was like elimination count, where the team to win is the team to get N amount of kills and you respawn like every 20 seconds or something like that
39:40 Lemono has a revelation
34:51 Because it's a good alternative to Versus Mode, which is a cesspool of toxicity
The arguments you said to not add Deathrun could be very much used for Prophunt (in casual you expect shooting, long respawn times if you're unlucky...). That's why I think Prophunt should be Tier 3 tbh.
And for another gamemodes: Bball is another fun gamemode, but the same arguments for Dodgeball could be used for it. I really like Ultiduo, but it's heavily restricted to 2 classes and it's basically koth, so probably it doesn't add something interesting to casual.
You talk about how long waits wouldn't work in casual like if you couldn't get a PHD from scratch in the time it takes to respawn in VS Saxton Hale
Yeah, that totally invalidates the long respawn argument.
@@HarrietJade-e4m nah I'm honestly complaining about Vs. Saxton Hale too. I wish there was another way to deal with waiting for the game to end.
That moment when Slender Fortress wasn’t mentioned
Vsh would be awsome as a permanent gamemode if merasmus was also a playable hale that would go hard
I hope they rework the map select screen since misc maps are always the least played map. Perhaps randomize the order or modes where capture point isn’t always the first game type.
Wait, jailbreak's purpose isn't to break the jail? I thought that was a super objective. Cop minigames was just time waster until prisoner run away and get ammo and start caos and let other prisoners to escape so they can kill other cops. One time I managed to run from the cops line of sight, and there were three cops in the map. One of them was idle and near the spawn room, away from the eyes of players, so the other cop was waiting for him near prisoner spawn. I went back to kill the idle cop with ''your eternal reward'' knife, and that was the only way to get disguse as spy in the gamemod btw. The idle cop thought the game was bugged out because I was disgused as a cop, so he turned around and told what to do prisoners, and as soon as they turn around I made a sick double backstab combo and I win the game. It was super satisfying. Funnily enough, I was super new to TF2 at that time, and I understood what the point of the game was, but I randomly stopped playing it and never played that mod again. I had some moments but game get boring because when you die you die for good, also it was a long time ago too.
The reason why jailbreak is awful in tf2 is because tf2 is not designed to be a hangout game
Ahaha they actually added a left for dead type zombie mode in (halloween) casual which is kinda cool to see in casual
correct me if im wrong but wasnt Uber Upgrades originally an MvM variant before it was doomed to rot in the pits of cp_orange?
I'll have you know I feel very well equiped to talk about The Hidden after my 3 games of it in 2016 (it was fun)
balloon race is a very cool idea to me but I would just completely remove snipers or not allow them to use a sniper rifle instead being able to use a bow
I feel like Jailbreak is basically a weird psychological test for people.
It's kinda reminiscent of the Stanford Prison Experiment where a bunch of young adults basically went on a power trip. Some of the prisoners suffered mental breakdowns and scarring, but in general the ethics of the experiment were dubious at best.
So basically Jailbreak is just a videogame verison of that lmao.
Why no mention of regular zombies? I honestly think it would work very well
I *have* tried Jailbreak, and it's not a stupid gamemode. It's fun.
I know it's billed as it's own gamemode, and run by itself in servers, but isn't The Hidden, from a TF2 standpoint, just a variation of VSH? In any case, I'm pretty sure that if The Hidden was implemented in casual, it would be a character in VSH and not just it's own gamemode.
I was going to suggest fort wars. It's a really cool minigame where both teams have to build the forts themselves while holding onto a neutral intelligence for as long as possible... it's such a shame it's hardly ever talked about anymore.
All i want is a ffa gamemode, like open fortress but you can select your class, and weapons like in the arsenal gamemode
It’s funny, I feel like I’ve played more jailbreak than any other game mode, played it so much back in 2012 when I clocked like 300 of my 400 tf2 hours, good times
I am a jailbreak enjoyer but yes, Jailbreak ABSOLUTELY belongs at the bottom of this list. Do NOT add this to category.
Honestly you could have just boiled down either version of surf to 'if the entire mode is based around a physics exploit, probably doesn't belong in a list labelled 'Casual''.
To Jailbreakers' credit: the maps are really cool
Dodgeball current format isnt for casual players either way is more competitive than casual.
There is a new concept where instead of arena mode is Free For All with respawns where you constantly play dodgeball until timer runs out. Which is bit more casual playing then the generic format.
I support this, but I would suggest also a rotating map ban, where certain maps like 2fort and Hightower, would not be playable on valve causal servers. This would force casual players to play on other maps and modes.
X10ish, or "Amplified" as I shall dub it, would be a sick idea
I feel like vs saxton hail should have always been there, it feels so much like it would be tf2
what about old TF2 Zombie Game which is engies on red (as the humans) vs. medics on blue (as the zombies). Engines cannot build sentries, but can build all other buildings. Medics have 50 increased health but can only use melee, and they are made taller. Whe an the engie dies, they switch teams to blue team and become a medic and thus is a last man standing game mode. Also the last 3 engies recieve minicrits to all weapons, and the last engie recieves full crits.
The "normal" gamemodes
Capture the flag
Capture points
Payload
King of the hill
The alternative gamemodes
Everything else
12:30 there's a video on the tf2 if it had mvm upgrade and i think it does a far better justice on this.
I wish TF2 had an FFA mode and a team deathmatch mode
if uber upgrades was added it woulkd be a double whammy because it would force valve to fix the broken upgrades in mvm
The name of this vid could be: what if yes of gamemodes?
vip from tf2 classic would be amazing
Modes like Jail Break are best played with a group of friends, and obviously aren't competitive. It's ALMOST just rp, but there is an endgame for the prisoners so idk. Very fun for screwing around with some friends in a discord call, but playing this with strangers seems very odd.
Nerfing or buffing a class only for one gamemode sound insane
Jailbreak is clearly an RP game mode
halloween gamemodes are really weird and balance is practically half ignored, so i think some gamemodes tier 2 and higher would work for halloween modes tbh
Even if they were added I'm pretty sure most would still rot in misc due to casual's horrible presentation and we'd see the amount of... normal gammemodes.
my most played comunity mode is jailbreak but even then all i do there is be the biggest smartass to ever smartass (get on the wrong red line and argue they “needed to specify”/leave the armory door open… that sort of thing)