Get Rid of Those ILLEGAL Saddle Valves! -
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2022
- Oftentimes the path of least resistance is the worst one in the long run.
Such is the case with these abundantly-available and easy-to-install saddle valves, which by all definition are ILLEGAL!...and for good reason, as I outline in this video.
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I’m a plumber and I love throwing these this away. Its cheap junk that won’t last more than a few years. This guy is absolutely right, it’s very easy to cut in a tee and install a supply stop or a ball valve. I’ll run soft copper all day long before using that plastic tubing
Couldn't have said it better myself!
Yep
My plumber installed one of these when he installed our water line to the refrigerator 6 years ago. He's not a licensed plumber, but I didn't know that at the time. I need to correct this but also, I think I need to replace the line with copper because the plastic line shows signs of dry rot.
@@lucasyoung646 i agree you should have it changed out. These aren’t made to last forever. But I’m sure you’ve got some time before it becomes an emergency.
@@lucasyoung646 I'm in the same boat except I woke up this morning to a puddle of water
HVAC code is a thin little pamphlet. Much of it is left to manufacturers. Manufacturers are still just sending saddle valves with their humidifiers along with those poly tubes. I still solder on, compression valves, with soft copper tubing but saddle valves are going to be something you’re likely going to keep on seeing from HVAC guys. They also like to put it on the closest pipe even if it’s on the hot side from the water heater.
I’ll also throw out there that a lot of old timers still use saddle valves as temporary bleeders for boilers
As convenient as it would be to lay all the blame on the HVAC guys, I'd reckon that licensed plumbers are equally as guilty.
I can't count how many times I've gotten into debates with not only my student apprentices, but seasoned plumbers, as to why they make for terrible (and illegal) valves. Although many see the light, the sad truth is that some just don't care because it's so darn simple to just slap one on.
The hot-side issue is a whole other issue altogether, as many HVAC techs reason that introducing hot water into the humidifier will cause the water to evaporate more efficiently. I don't have any scientific evidence proving otherwise, but colour me skeptical; I seriously don't think the water's going to remain hot enough to make much of a difference as it gets distributed across the humidifier's absorption pad...or it's more likely as you said: Throwing it on the hot is simply more convenient for them.
To quote Dumbledore: "We must choose between what is easy and what is right!"
Thanks for your feedback!
@@PlumbingsCool I never heard any case for putting the saddle valve on the hot side as it is simply a horrible idea. The saddle valve or any kind of valve over time will corrode faster on the hot side. Also any kind of mineral accumulation in the water heater will find it's way through the humidifier and then clogging up the humidifier pad. Often times when pulling out humidifier pads that have water coming from the hot side it will be completely covered in mineral leading to less transfer of moisture into the duct system. As that anode rod inside of the water heater deteriorates it will eventually send that magnesium to the pad as well.
All in all, the point of the ducted humidifier is to introduce moisture whether hot or cold. But it is clear as day that having it on the cold is the only way to go.
Thanks!...I'll certainly take you word for it. To me it just makes intuitive sense to connect it to the cold...which is what I've always done - and now what I'll certainly continue to do! 👍
Like he said you can’t just blame us for everything, I’m your son not your scapegoat 😂
Illegal for licensed plumber, not homeowners. If they were Illegal, they wouldn't be on the shelf.
Respectfully, that is not true; only because something is available for sale, it does not mean that it is legal to be installed. A store vendor/supplier and the local plumbing Code have very different objectives.
In a free-enterprise market like the US or Canada (to a lesser degree, unfortunately), we have the luxury of choice as a result of an open market and competition.
So although you're "free" as a homeowner to install those terrible valves, you're never free of the consequences as a result.
(Just know what you're getting into!) 😉
Thanks for your comment and have a great day!
We can tell you're not a plumber bud. All kinds of illegal s traps ect you can buy at home depot
Thank you!
No no!...thank YOU, sir! 🙏
Exactly right
Perfect video
Hey, thanks so much!!!
I have one now I’m trying to stop the water so I can remove a fridge and it won’t cut off. I’m looking for a solution and came across this video with the exact same attachment
Oh goodness, my heart goes out to you. Unfortunately people naively install them because they're quick and easy to do so. To paraphrase Dumbledore, "We must decide between what is right and what is easy!" Unfortunately, you may need to shut down your main water supply and have that pierced section repaired.
Good luck!
I just now found out water leaking from this to my basement and came to check on RUclips. Big damage occurred.
Thanks for the advice 😅
Welcome! Hope it's helpful!
Your content is amazing 🔥🥇
Thank you so much!!! I can't tell you how much I appreciate your encouraging words! 🙏 Stay tuned...more to come!
the plastic line will last longer than the copper tube
That same aforementioned plastic line crumbled in my hands when I removed it. 🤔
Wasn't the first time either. A customer reached out to me a few months ago complaining about water leaking out of their walls and basement. Turns out that the plastic poly line the builder used to feed their trap seal primer line from their first-floor laundry tub had disintegrated within the walls.
Although copper certainly has its weaknesses under specific situations, it will generally last a lifetime in comparison to plastic.
depends, i just put one on today and the little shit leaked after turning it on. And yes, it was installed the way it stated on the package. Cheap ass plastic inside the screw that's supposed to bind the plastic tube to the T
Maybe if you dont understand the nuance of the different meanings of the word "last".
Be physically unable to be broken down and pollute the planet? Sure, its gonna last longer.
But for being usable for potable water the copper will last longer.
Such good info!! I thought my air-condition was done wrong!!
Thanks so much! 🙏 I hope it helps resolve your problem!
Copper soft tubing is no longer code in NJ
Interesting! Here just north of you in Canada, we're actually REQUIRED by Code to use soft copper when burying below ground, as long as its Type "L" minimum. Otherwise, you can use soft above ground as well - although most above-ground copper pipe runs are going to be hard drawn "sticks". Thanks for sharing!
Jersey is out of code, by virtue of existing.
Have had one of these installed now for decades running from my basement to my fridge. No issues.
Cool. Have you ever tried turning off over recent years?
@@PlumbingsCoolJust the other day actually haha, got lucky I guess.
Consider yourself blessed! 😊
Yes so lts better to put a tee with a dissimilar stainless steel ball valve 😅 while I agree it's better but have used them for years and have had them last forever, but they have limited amount of times that u can turn them on and off more of a single use thing but can be turned of several times.
It may put your doubts at ease to learn that the ball valve is not stainless steel, but rather chrome-plated brass. Although I must admit that I would be very impressed if you were ever able to successfully solder stainless steel.
I dont have Solder Skills isnt there another fitting that just goes in Pipe & goes right to my Fridge
If you mean to tap into the pipe to create a branch without cutting it (similar to this saddle valve) then no, not that I'm aware of.
However, they do make Tee fittings and valves that allow you to attach to existing copper piping without soldering. These are Compression fittings and slip-on fittings, such as SharkByte.
I must add that I do NOT like either of these alternate connection methods for a number of reasons.
A compression connection can be seen in this video, as it's how the flexible pipe connects between the valve and the humidifier (which is typical, and provides the only way to connect the humidifier in this scenario). The big difference here is that if something goes wrong with the compression connections (VERY possible!), the user can isolate it by turning off the valve (which is more securely soldered).
just get an add a tee adapter and tap in from under the sink if you don't want to solder, leave the copper alone
I have it for 10 yrs no problem so far for freezer water line
Cool. Have you tried shutting it recently?
@@PlumbingsCool not yet but im pretty sure it will leak at some point
It probably won't leak if you don't touch it...the problem is they it may be ceased up and not shut when you most need it. But who knows; maybe you'll be one of the lucky few! 🤞
What is the expected life of copper plumbing before it starts to corrode and leak, 50 years?
Cooper's actually rather durable and time-tested, and is not likely to corrode or leak unless under very specific circumstances:
1: Hot water recirculation lines may "wear away" the copper over time - especially at the elbows.
2: If it's subject to specific chemicals, such as uric acid (from human urine in urinal drainage lines) - often caused from improper flushing.
3: Pitting and weakening of the pipe walls as a result of dielectric reaction caused by settled iron deposits along the bottom of the waterpipe - often caused by rusting of steel equipment or materials that are connected to the water system upstream of the lines, such as a rusted out water heater.
Otherwise, copper is arguably pretty durable stuff. I've removed 50-year-old Type L water lines from old buildings which are as thick as new.
What is the model of that Dahl valve and where can I buy one? Thanks.
The model is a Dahl 1/2" C x 1/4" MIP Mini Ball Valve, R14-(straight) style, model #511-13-30.
Not sure where you are, but in Canada, you can find them at any reputable Plumbing supplier. Here in Ontario, that would be the likes of Next, Noble, Wolseley, Emco, and Desco.
Hope you this helps.
@@PlumbingsCool Thank you, brother. Just ordered one.
Pex is the way to go
I just threw up in my mouth a little. 🤮
@@PlumbingsCool😂
Bought a house an this ending up bursting underneath my house, turned off the main line and it’s still leaking any tips?
When you say that it's still leaking, I'm guessing you mean that water the main stop valve isn't fully stopping the water from passing through. If so, then you're going to need to call your municipal or township Water Works services emergency line to have them shut your water from the curb stop outside your home. With the water off, you or a plumber can outright replace the burst section, and while you're at it, I strongly recommend that have the main stop valve replaced as well so you don't end up with the same problem in the future. Here's a video about replacing the main stop valve:
ruclips.net/video/6BGyjUKHdo4/видео.html
I don't like them, but I have been using them for 25 years without any problems🤷🏻♂️ like it or not
Your luck is better than mine! 😁 Cheers! ✌️
Crazy just found out my parents home has one for their refrigerator no issues 16 plus years
Yeah, plumbing is unpredictability weird that way. I'm wondering if your parents have a water softener, which would significantly extend the life of all the plumbing.
Will wirsbo also eventually go brittle ?
Wirsbo - now known as Uponor (or any other Pex) is certainly MUCH more durable than this cheaper tubing, and Uponor does provide a 25-year warranty on their piping. And Pex A (Wirsbo/Uponor) is much more durable than Pex B (the cheaper crimp-type with insert fittings).
I can't attest to the longevity of it (in my amateur chemist opinion, I think that all plastics eventually become brittle over time), but I do know for sure that you should NEVER keep any Pex exposed to sunlight or other UV rays, which is a guaranteed recipe for making the pipe go brittle FAST. Therefore, if you're installing outside or in exposure to the sun, be sure to cover it up with some sort of sleeving to prevent the sun from breaking the pipe down.
Hope this helps!
@@PlumbingsCool thank you! It did help a lot !
Hey I have this for my fridge in Ontario Canada - what should I do! I need to disconnect my water line ASAP
Hi there. I'm presuming that the valve isn't closing? If the handle is seized, you could try to gently apply a bit of leverage to the handle by using pliers (turning clockwise to close). Failing that, you will likely need to turn your water off at the main stop valve (at the water meter if you you're on municipal water). However, that is only a temporary fix because doing so will stop water flow to your entire building. But if it's an emergency, then at least it will help you control flow until you can find a plumber to come in to replace it remove the faulty valve.
Hope this helps.
@@frankspatone hi there! Thanks so much. I did lock off the main water line because it was slowly leaking at the saddle valve. The issue is that I’m changing my fridge tomorrow and i couldn’t disconnect the waterline from the fridge because the connection was too hard. So now I have to cut off the waterline at the fridge site so they can rake this old fridge and keep the main water locked. Will there be any issues locking off the main water line for a few days? This is for a condo
@Tasha Gold As long as no one needs to use any of the plumbing facilities over the next few days, you should be fine with the main stop valve closed during that period. But you might want to have someone come in and replace that saddle valve with a proper valve, such as with the Dahl 1/2" x 1/4" O.D. compression ball valve shown in the video. Be sure to have your condo management temporarily disable any monitored smoke alarms if anyone needs to perform any soldering in your unit. Finally, if your reconnecting to the new fridge, and you're using a silver flexible braided hose line to connect the valve to the fridge, you might also want to replace that while you're at it.
Hope this helps!
Copper corrodes with water. I’d rather swap out the plastic line in the future tbh
Appreciate your input, but potable water does not corrode copper, with one exception of when coming into contact with ferrous materials - namely steel - under specific circumstances.
Copper can also wear down over time when installed as part of a constantly-running hot water recirculation line, or when conveying reverse osmosis water, which can leach the copper from the piping because it's devoid of minerals.
Other than those scenario, copper pipe for potable water is time tested and is leaps and bounds superior to plastic for so many reasons, in my opinion.
If you're referring to drainage or venting, then sure, go nuts with installing plastic, which I'd even agree is better choice than copper. But when it comes to conveying everyday pressurized potable drinking water, no one is ever going to convince me that plastic is better or safer.
All the best!
What can I use
I like cutting into the water line and installing a Tee fitting, branching out with a Dahl 1/2" x 1/4" O.D. R14 mini ball valve - as depicted in the video. Hope this helps!
Why use copper line when use pex lines
You mean for the 1/4" OD? Technically you can... although given that the house already had existing copper lines, adding Pex to a copper system is a downgrade, in my opinion...but that's just the me.
Nonethess, Pex is certainly still leaps & bounds better than crappy old polyethylene.
@@PlumbingsCool don’t like copper line. Had them freeze break at going to outside faucet too many times
Even plastic freezes and splits. I've seen it several times and have had to to repair it several times. The problem isn't the material, but rather that the line wasn't properly winterized.
Also, as a heads-up, NEVER expose plastic piping (namely Pex) to the sun's UV rays. If you're adamant on using Pex, then be sure to protect it from the sun, as it WILL break down and fail.
Well to tell you the truth don't turn the valve so hard when you cut it on so hard and second of all you turn it a quarter turn and you do have a pack of nut on it. You snug that up a little bit. That's it! Ain't have no problem with them at all. Been doing it for 35 years. Even the copper I mean even the plastic lines. But copper is better but plastic have no problem with don't overcrank them😢
Even presuming that the valve doesn't seize up (which I've had no luck experiencing), it still doesn't negate the fact that these valves are blatantly against our provincial and National (Canadian) Plumbing Codes - specifically that there are only very specific circumstances when you're allowed to tap into a pipe...and this isn't one of them.
Thanks for your feedback!
Are they illegal in Arizona ?
I'm not sure, but they should be! 😁
What makes them formally illegal here in Ontario, Canada is that they puncture the pipe. Only under very specific circumstances are you allowed to tap into a drainage or water supply line. What's worse is that they're just TERRIBLE valves. They either get stuck open or stuck closed, rendering them useless.
So illegal that home Depot sells them lol
Your point being...?
Ain’t nothing wrong with a little John Guest
Umm...ok.
@@PlumbingsCool genuinely
Are you familiar with the brand name John Guest?
Kenetico water softener systems ($5000+) come with them sometimes and dear god I will never use soft copper again. 1 billion times better. More affordable, more durable, more applicable, longer lasting, safer to cut.
The only downside is sourcing it but if you’ve ever walked into a plumbing wholesaler and know how to communicate you’d find them.
I am...and I even have a fitting or two here or there. But personally I don't like plastic for water pressure, and push-fit even less so. Push-fit fittings contain O-rings, which dry out over time. Not for me if I could help it. But different strokes for different folks...we can still be friends! 😊
@@PlumbingsCool absolutely
Learning how people do things differently online and in real life is objectively beneficial.
Do it right, or do it twice.
You got that right! 👍
Not illegal in my state 16+ years not a single leak
Illegal in our province only by definition of the Codebook, specifically that its very restrictive in which pipes may be drilled or tapped.
Cool your valve doesn't leak. But tell me: Have you tried opening or closing it as of late?
@@PlumbingsCool as long as I don’t touch it it’s fine 😂
@@PlumbingsCool is there any way to run that copper coil to a ice maker valve box and then have another copper coil to the fridge from the valve box?
LOL...And therein lies the dilemma! Cheers!
Oh, for sure you can. Even better, I'd run 1/2" soldered copper to the box, and install a 1/2" c x 1/4" OD Ball Valve, and run copper coil only between the fridge and and the valve. Only be careful to not kink the copper when you push the fridge back! Try to create a "loop" of sorts with the could) coil, so there's play when you pull/push on the fridge.
Everything was great except you used a valve that does not have a packing nut and it's upside down. Might as well just put another needle valve in there. I'm joking about that
Believe it or not, the valve I installed does indeed have a packing nut. Matter of fact, I make a habit of tightening the packing nut after every installation to prevent dripping after soldering.
Also, because it's a ball valve, there's no issue with the orientation it gets installed, since there's no opportunity for any dirt to sneak into the stem because it's completely sealed. Needless to say, I'm a huge fan of ball valves.
You can see me tightening up one of these packing nuts in the following short:
ruclips.net/user/shortsBHc5EiWZxFU?feature=share
Thanks for your feedback!
@@PlumbingsCool no disrespect I was going through my comments in the video you showed with the saddle valve going to the humidifier does not have a packing nut in that link that you sent me is a completely different valve just wanted to clarify that God bless Happy holidays
@@ricklee827 No worries...All good! 👍😁👍Happy holidays and a healthy, prosperous 2023 to you and your loved ones as well! 🥂
Illegal????
Illegal!!!! 😁
(at least by definition of our Ontario Code)
Illegal? How about a code violation.
Sure. Per Ontario Codebook:
7.3.3.1. Drilled and Tapped Joints
(1) Except as provided in Sentences (2) to (4), no water-distributing pipe, drainage pipe or fittings shall be drilled, tapped or swaged.
(2) A water distributing pipe may be drilled or tapped to provide for a mechanically extracted T in copper tubing of Type L or K provided that all branch connections shall be notched and dimpled to limit depth of insertion and conform to the inner contour of the main.
(3) A copper water distributing pipe of 1 in. size or larger may be mechanically swaged to permit the joining of other copper pipe of equal size.
(4) A drainage pipe or fi tting may be drilled or tapped,
(a) to provide for the connection of a trap seal primer line
(b) to connect a device designed to dispense germicidal or odour control chemicals or trap seal water to a floor drain downstream of a vacuum breaker or flush valve in a flush tube connected to a sanitary unit,
(c) to provide a hole for a branch connection to a drainage pipe, where the branch connection is made with a saddle hub as permitted by Article 7.2.10.5. and where the hole is drilled to provide a smooth clean hole of the required size and orientation, or
(d) to provide for the connection of pipe or fi ttings to metal or rigid plastic pipe and fittings where the pipe or fittings are thick enough to be threaded or are bossed for tapping.
(5) No pipe adaption shall be made by the use of a bushing that leaves a square edge or shoulder on the inside of the pipe or fitting.
Get rid of it and buy their expensive products
Lol...that expensive product will seem like a steal if the homeowner will need to call a plumber to emergency-replace that terrible needle valve because it leaks or won't close!
Shark bite fittings
...should be illegal? 😁
Dont ever use what this guy is using....the saddle valve is just piercing a hole in to the water line and saddle valves are known to leak and cause other damage to the copper piping......be smart and dont do what he is doing
You're not wrong about your advice regarding saddle valves, but perhaps you watched the video in reverse and with no sound? 😁 Because I replaced the saddle valve with a proper ball valve, explaining that they were illegal for the reason you mentioned.
Contrary to your accusation, we actually both appear to be in agreement here, friend.
Lol he's saying NOT to use saddle valves
“Trouble free reliability” I moved my fridge to clean behind it. Copper snapped. Replaced with poly no problem
It's tricky to accurately assess or comment on that experience you had with copper. Copper in itself doesn't usually "snap"...it'll kink, certainly. But not snap unless it's already been seriously and repeatedly kinked. So I think some factors are missing from your story. Also, the calibre of the copper tubing is important. About a decade ago I purchased a coil of 3/8" OD copper tubing from Home Depot because it was after-hours and I was in a pinch. I've never seen new copper tubing that was so horrendously manufactured. Even trying to shape it caused it to kink easily (but not snap). Everything else I've ever purchased from a real-deal Plumbing supplier never caused me an issue.
As for your existing Poly line, you're free to do as you wish. However I suggest you that even if you prefer to stick to plastic, that you at least change it to 1/4" OD PEX, because it's much, much more durable than traditional poly. The poly may work fine for now, but I'd be willing to bet that as the years pass, it will eventually dry out and crumble on you.
I always liked those metal covered tubes that you see under sinks some times. In the process of replacing the shitty taps the old owner of my house installed in the worst fucking spot in a crawlspace . . Must have been leaking for years slowly as there's a nice little mould garden i have to kill off now. .@@PlumbingsCool
This is not illegal
Be careful about spreading false information next time
Oh, Nonsense, Furry! 😋
By definition of our Almighty Ontario Plumbing Code, the most certainly ARE illegal:
7.3.3.1.(1): Except as provided in Sentences (2) to (4), no water distributing pipe, drainage pipe or fittings shall be drilled, tapped or swaged.
(and if you're curious about exceptions in Sentences (2) and (4):
(2) A water distributing pipe may be drilled or tapped to provide for a mechanically extracted T in copper tubing of Type L or K provided that all branch connections shall be notched and dimpled to limit depth of insertion and conform to the inner contour of the main.
(3) A copper water distributing pipe of 1 in. size or larger may be mechanically swaged to permit the joining of other copper pipe of equal size.
(4) A drainage pipe or fitting may be drilled or tapped,
(a) to provide for the connection of a trap seal primer line,
(b) to connect a device designed to dispense germicidal or odour control chemicals or trap seal water to a floor drain downstream of a vacuum breaker or flush valve in a flush tube connected to a sanitary unit,
(c) to provide a hole for a branch connection to a drainage pipe, where the branch connection is made with a saddle hub as permitted by Article 7.2.10.5. and where the hole is drilled to provide a smooth clean hole of the required size and orientation, or
(d) to provide for the connection of pipe or fittings to metal or rigid plastic pipe and fittings where the pipe or fittings are thick enough to be threaded or are bossed for tapping.
...not to mention the fact that many of these get installed with the metal clamps touching the bare copper, thus exposing the pipe to the possibility of dielectric reaction (another Plumbing Code violation, by the way).
Plus: They suck.
(Be careful about accusing someone about spreading misinformation without backing it up next time.) 😁
It works for a year or so ...for renters .
Leave it to the slumlords to fix
My philosophy is to always do the right thing, and it might require some explaining on the plumber's part as to why one method is superior to another. Even slumlords will think twice if you explain to them that the added cost of proper work and materials will potentially save them headaches in the future.
@@PlumbingsCool they sell adapter valves that tee off the faucet supply stops under sinks and get the 1/4 water with its own shutoff and a place to connect your faucet supply line
What’s better for fridge connection, the flexible copper coil or the stainless steel lines??
By stainless steel, are you referring to the flexible braided connection hoses? If so, I still prefer copper (which would s what it is at my own house) for a number of reasons...HOWEVER, you have to install the flexible copper with care to avoid kinking it, or applying too much tension on the inferior 1/4" OD compression-type fridge connection when you push the fridge back.
Another reason why you'd opt for a flexible braided hose is if you're running reverse osmosis to you fridge,.which should never be run through cooper lines because it will leech out the minerals and weaken the pipe.
When in doubt, or for sake of simplicity, opt for the stainless braided hoses, as they're much more forgiving on getting kinked (same goes for dishwashers.). Note however, that because they are synthetic rubber on the inside, the material is prone to hardening and failure over the years. So don't reuse an old braided hose when installing or reinstalling...just spend the extra few bucks and get a new one if it's more than a couple of years old.