Can there be good without god?

January 27, 2011: A discussion on morality between Ratio Christi (represented by Adam Tucker and Bill Pratt) and the UNCG Atheists, Agnostics & Skeptics (represented by Robert Eldredge and Joshua Deaton). The panel took place at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro. The event was moderated by Austin Cavanaugh, filmed by James Gemperline and edited/uploaded by Charlie Needham (all of whom are active members of the UNCG Atheist community).
For more information:
Ratio Christi: uncg.ratiochristi.org
UNCG Atheists, Agnostics & Skeptics: uncgatheists.bl...

[@32shumble]

"Can there be good without god?" Is only a valid question for a theist
Atheists know there is good without god

[@daleg.9673]

The theists kept claiming that they had the higher moral ground because they had an objective standard of morality (God) that atheists don't have. But how do we know that this so-called objective standard of morality 1) exists in the first place: 2) is the perfect embodiment of good that the theist claims it to be; and 3) that it can be applied to real world situations without using their own subjective moral judgments? The theist tries to answer this by appealing to the principle of morality put forth in the scriptures. But, even if they could prove that the bible is indeed the word of God, there's still no objective way to distinguish between the slavery, genocide, and misogyny parts of the bible, and the "love thy neighbor" and "do unto others" parts of the bible. Theists don't seem to realize that the their acceptance of some part of the bible and rejection of other parts has been based on the same set of contemporary community standards that the atheist uses.

[@vidalsoberon5991]

At least 3 things that you all Christians need to understand as you watch this video.
A) Every society in the world is becoming more moral and scores better on Well-being, as they become less theistic, And from that, the Atheist team not only provided an excellent point, one that can be totally demonstrable, but also they provided very specific examples.
B) A crucial aspect of morality, is to realize that our points of view could be wrong, and been willing to correct them and perhaps improve upon, something that not only Christians but every religion in the world, are not willing to even contemplate. And as a prove of that, just look how the Theistic team is arguing how slavery on the Old Testament could be actually a good thing done by their imaginary friend, instead of just admitting that the damn book is just wrong.
C) If there is a god and without him/she or it can't be good... Didn't he/she or it have the same level of responsibility on "creating", or even allowing the existence of both Mother Teresa and Hitler? With out taking out of the historical picture (because it did happened) that there were at least 3 attempts to assassinate Hitler, 2 that I remember before he rise to power, and each of them "miraculously" failed. There was this part of the perfect plan of god? And if you might conclude that this was the case... Why then you blame on Hitler by doing what god wanted him to do (to the extend that he have at least opportunities to avoid it)?
If by actually and objectively watching this video you Christians do not get it, then there is not chance on hell that you ever will, and the secret lies behind of ADMITTING THAT ONE CAN BE WRONG. And unfortunately on this argument (at least, YOU ARE WRONG!!!

[@MAKUA5D]

i dont think anyone argues that there cant be good without god. but as a christian we believe that we can seek salvation from our sins through christ. this is just what we choose to believe just like you identify with athiesm we identify with christianity. different beliefs but there is no good that can come from fighting against one another. i think part of being an athiest is feeling like your smarter or better then everyone because you believe in nothing. thats cool and all but the amount of time you put into hating other peoples beliefs you become the very thing you despise, that being religious people trying to shove there religion on other people. so id say you would just be better off living your own way and not being concerned what other people are doing.

[@vidalsoberon5991]

Okay… Let me see if I can write this in a way that even you can understand. First of all, I give a rat ass on what you believe or not, I care when your try to push your beliefs on everyone ells. Starting from the right to choose if people want to have kids or not and how many, what sexual preference or orientation they should have, and trying to trust your moronic, anti-science and retrogrades beliefs on the science classroom or even on the school system and policies. No to mention the Christians of many denominations, that intrudes on the neighborhood houses trying to make us deink your Kool-Aid. So do not give me your mimi-kaka argument of “been better off living my own way and not being concerned what other people are doing”, because you guys are the ones doing it in so many levels.
You guys seek salvation from what, from where and from whom?
In case you still do not know it my deluded friend, assuming that you haven’t even finish high school yet, when you and me die, we are going to end up either 5 fit underground or cremated, your brain (if you still have one after so much indoctrination) will die as well, and everything inside of it, that by the way makes you be you, and will go on the same place where a flame from a candle go after you put it out. There is no particle or sub particle capable to transport your thoughts or essence (whatever that means) to another place or dimension (heaven or hell if you wish to call them that way). You might wish that that will be the case, but believe it or not, reality is not going to change to make you or make me happier.
And lastly, is not that we Atheist feel or believe that we are smarter or better than people of faith in general, is because statistically it is truth (we tend to score better, and I can recommend you couple scholarly books where you can corroborate this claims) but mainly because you guys do not miss the opportunity to show just how ignorant in many areas you willingly choice to be and ultimately you are, starting for the 3 points that I raised on my original comment, the one you are responding to and the ones that obviously do not got it. And finishing tonight by proving with you own words, how you can have the nerves to voice your uneducated opinion with regards of what we Atheist believe. IS NOT that we believe in nothing, we believe in probably more things; or at least as many as you do, de difference is we only believe on the things that can be proven, can be detectable and measurable and we find no use for faith, and if necessary we replace it by reasonable expectations, as long that remain to be REASONABLE. You have a god that you think it exists, a heaven or hell, or even that you (unlike every other animal on the face of this planet) have a soul? PROVE IT!!! But not with arguments and theological contortions, but with stone cold facts and evidence tangible, detectable and measurable. It is that simple.
If you can’t prove it but you still want to believe in your imaginary friend and your paradise on a dimension that can’t be detected or known until you are dead, and allow to be brainwashed and been more likely scammed out of your money, that is fine with me. Just do it as you might masturbate yourself, inside of your house and/or in private, and if you have kids, do not make them be part of it until they reach the age of consent; NOT BEFORE.

[@Gnomefro]

Michael Mccafferty
_"different beliefs but there is no good that can come from fighting against one another. "_
So basically, you are opposed to the Allies fighting Nazi Germany in WW2, because it's always better to not fight? I have to say that I disagree rather strongly with that approach. Failure to fight when it's required just leads predators to eat you alive and exploit you in every way.
_"i think part of being an athiest is feeling like your smarter or better then everyone because you believe in nothing."_
Atheists don't believe in nothing. Being an atheist means you don't believe in any *gods*, but we obviously have many other types of beliefs. Personally I'm a metaphysical naturalist in addition to being an atheist and my beliefs would be derivations from that.
_"thats cool and all but the amount of time you put into hating other peoples beliefs you become the very thing you despise, that being religious people trying to shove there religion on other people."_
That's not what I hate about religious people though. I think you need to realize that atheists who spend a lot of time opposing religion do so because they are convinced that religion is harmful. The main reason it is harmful is that it promotes irrational reasoning in various ways. There would be nothing wrong about Christians spending all day promoting the faith healing abilities of Jesus if it in fact was a demonstrable phenomenon in reality. However, it's not, and that's the point at which it becomes immoral to spread the idea/lie - especially to children. Religions also make money directly off of its indoctrination victims, which make them con games that should be illegal. The only reason they're not is that understanding of neuroscience has not properly penetrated the legal system yet. Childhood indoctrination into a religion is in many ways crippling a child's brain such that it will spend its life being exploited as a slave by the organization and this is simply not ok.
_"so id say you would just be better off living your own way and not being concerned what other people are doing."_
Well, I'd say that's horrible advice. Changing society for the better clearly requires an active approach. However, it seems like your advice is based on an utter misunderstanding of what motivates atheists.