The tragic wasted potential of the Paradigm Dalek reveal
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 28 фев 2024
- Series 5 saw Doctor Who undergo its first rebrand of the New Who era, and with it came a new Dalek design that debuted in Victory of the Daleks. Unfortunately, this New Dalek Paradigm would be met with harsh criticism from fans, causing showrunner Steven Moffat to retire them and return to the bronze design. But what is the history behind this huge missed opportunity?
All footage is the property of the BBC. Music by Jun Senoue 
Развлечения
I wish they brought them back, they deserved more.
Big finish !!! Eleventh doctor- victory of the doctor
Victory of the Doctor
True
i honestly think if the colous of the Paradigm had been slightly duller, they would have been a massive hit
the Drone and Strategist got the metallic treatment in Asylum
It’s the chunkiness of the bottom half that’s off putting for me. I actually kind of like the bright colours, though I know that’s an unpopular opinion. But the way they get dummy thicc after the top just looks wrong, I can’t take it seriously.
@@Longshanks1690 I think it looks better myself.
The machines are both tanks and life support vehicles. The standard Dalek design works for when they're near one of their ships/fleets or a base it doesn't make as much sense if there is a risk of being stranded alone somewhere.
I swear, if you don't call that iceberg video The Iceberg Of The Daleks, I will flip off a chair and probably break my back.
The Ironsides shouldn't have gone without a fight. They should have fought back and lost, thereby showing the Paradigm Daleks' strength compared to the old Daleks.
One of them could have even escaped with the help of the Doctor, who reluctantly helped it because he knows two factions of Daleks fighting each other is better a reformed and united Dalek Empire.
The revamp made a huge difference, the slight profile change and metallic finish is SO much better. The sites Dalek Project and Dalek 63:88 go into why these new designs didn’t improve upon the classic design enough to be accepted by the fans, though, in mind blowing detail.
It's sad the fans didn't give the designs a chance. I loved victory of the daleks and the redesigns.
Fans gave them a chance, but the daleks themselves didn’t end up doing anything cool.
OK TAKE 2
VICTORY OF THE DALEKS PART 2
The episode begins with the doctor in a floored panic around the base. Scrambling for clues on the Ironside Daleks location and plan. Amy is equally dumbfounded, but more occupied consoling Bracewell who is having a mental breakdown over being a robot, and Winston Churchil is trying to maintain a general quota of sense throughout.
Though the doctor is visibly hurt by bracewells plight, he finds himself fixated more on what Bracewell’s half incoherent memory rambling reveals where the Daleks could be rather than his emotional well being. Going on to face the Daleks alone much to Amy’s chagrin.
Once aboard the damaged shuttle, The Doctor is able to Recognize the modified technology for a Dalek production line from the time war, and is able to make out a good deal of the Ironsides plan as they play cat and mouse games attempting to kill 11 as he scopes out a potential means to take out the vessel from within, not wanting to acknowledge the requirement for a testimony until The doctor basically forces them to admit to being impure by implication.
Enough time is taken for the Doctor to find a way to destroy the ship, though escape meanwhile would be uncertain as the iron sides nearly have him cornered. Unfortunately enough time has also passed for the progenitor to produce the sole supreme paradigm Daleks , whom make it’s introduction
Exterminating the Dalek piloting the ship and Intentionally scuttling it into the earth's atmosphere. Much to the shock of the iron sides who half hoped the Testimony of the doctor would permit them survival, whilst also not understanding why the supreme would destroy the progenitor before more Daleks are made as they die in despair. The doctor is equally shocked but uses this as a distraction to escape to the tardis while the Supreme Dalek teleports off the vessel at moment.
Thus ensues an multi layered and insidious plot on the New paradigms behalf. As the destruction of the Dalek vessel so close to London causes a perpetual energy surge. Not only leaving the city vulnerable to an air raid, but also powering 5 additional progenitors that had been secretly placed in various locations across the countryside. All of which the supreme Dalek is able to systematically activate through Radio within the prime minister's very office; using vocal mimicry as well ro impersonate Winston through the radio as to manipulate the nations military abroad. A fact that enrages Churchill back at the bunker base, as he tries to order whatever men he has available to intercept these locations. All while the doctor tries to figure out how any of this is possible.
Each of the Dalek types would be given a chance to show off what they are supposed to do. With the Dalek drone having wantonly murdering in coming soldiers in a mini rampage in town, only to be curbed out by the Strategist who switches out the traditional gun stick for rocket fire and flamethrowers as to better conceal this attack as a result of the german bombings. The scientist and eternal daleks meanwhile are activated at the site and Bracewell falsely recalls designing the Ironsides. Where in which the Scientist Dalek is able to wondrously advanced technology with the general bits of scrap off screen, including more Dalek progenitors which the time sensitive Dalek eternal is able to send back in time through controlled temporal shifts for the Supreme Dalek to detect upon its creation. Showcasing both the Eternals function, as well as the Dalek paradigms hive web intelligence and making their existence a neat little paradox.
All this chaos has the doctor livid, but Amy get’s him into the proper mindset in saving the people immediately in Danger instead of fixating on his vendetta. Something that resonates with bracewell who begins getting ahold of himself and using the intellect the Daleks gave him against them. Upgrading some WW2 planes to be able to take damage and resist the Daleks, perhaps even taking out the drone whilst also working on a way of stopping the power surge with Amy and Winstons help hands on.
The supreme Dalek orders the eternal and scientist to retreat from bracewells upgraded test site before the doctor confronts them at 10 Downing street. The Doctor assumes this whole affair was a gambit to distract him whilst the Daleks prepared an escape, to which 11 was only half right. Instead of escaping earth, the Dalek paradigm intended to further feed into Britain's desperation for a weapon to change the tide of war. Leaving behind advanced nuclear grade technology that would snowball humanity into irradiating the planet into a place fitting for a new dalek homeworld.
A plan that disgusts 11 as he threatens to use the tardis to undo the Paradox that the Dalek paradigm relies on to exist. The supreme anticipates this however revealing, not only a secondary Dalek drone to thwart the doctor’s escape, but also how the strategist spearheads an assault on the bunker base with the eternal before the surge stopping tech is completed.
Bracewell is fired upon and ‘injured’ but winston is Savy enough to keep the strategist momentarily occupied by strategies of his own, and Amy is pursued by the eternal, and nearly killed before it is distracted by an off screen luminance that’ll later be revealed as the Crack in the wall. The ramifications of the Eternals finding Giving the rest of the paradigm pause, enough for an injured brace well stop the surge everywhere, save the sight with all the weapons the Daleks intended for the humans to procure before bracewell goes into an artificial comatose state which is destroyed.
Though certainly delayed, the Supreme gages that their plans for earth are Salvageable, especially if Bracewall is ever repaired and kept within British control. Whilst the doctor tries to press the supreme dalek in what visibly disturbed him, only for the supreme to hint at more pressing concerns before he orders the rest of Daleks to retreat via 'spacial' shift (only the eternal can make fully controlled temporal shifts.) before the military would intercept them. Foreshadowing their involvement with the pandorica while leaving the doctor with more than a few things to dwell on.
If the Ironside Daleks don't know what the plan is, how were the secret progenitors placed around London?
@@dark_ops1651The Dalek Eternal places them there, after the Supreme Dalek is created by the iron sides and activates them. As said in the idea, all the Paradigm Daleks except for the supreme are created through a paradox. Which is sustainable because of the Dalek hive web allowing for the Future Dalek eternal to inform the Dalek supreme of his Future command via the Dalek hive web.
@@dark_ops1651OP answered that. It was the Dalek Eternal, who went back in time soon after its creation to place the additional progenitors. Quite timey-wimey, but not a paradox in itself, so long as the original progenitor had a separate origin. Using the Eternal in this way is a great idea, as it levels the playing field with the Doctor, forcing him to consider tactics he normally wouldn’t, i. e. meddling with an ongoing timeline. I would add a conflict between the Eternal, the Supreme, and the Strategist over implementing this plan, as the Eternal questions if it is going too far, the Strategist thinks it’s not far enough, and the Supreme insists on being obeyed.
I love this whole idea, and wish we’d gotten something like it instead of the hasty wrap-up. The Paradigm Daleks had some major design flaws. The worst for me was the accordion neck. Still, a story that justified the different castes would have gone a long way towards redeeming the style gaffes.
@@ryantwombly720thank you for clarifying friend! I could have sworn I already made a reply but my comment seems to have been deleted, ack. And I appreciate the praise for my idea as well! It seems the most interesting Daleks in big finish are either the strategizing ones, the ones that mess with time or both. So that seemed like a natural conclusion to take the eternal and strategist in. I'm more partial to the blood lusted Daleks so I thought of making the drones rather trigger happy, with the supreme being calculating but still having the pride to toy around with the doctor.
Didn't put too much thought into how I would change the Paradigm Dalek designs here. There's a lot I like after all, they honestly have my favorite eyestalk of any dalek design not only cause of the sharp studs but also more organic looking eye. I was never bothered too much by the hunch personally, but I guess I could do without them if it still means we can see that weapons switching feature with its back slits. As for the neck, maybe if the rivets were closer together like armor plating?
For colors I'm conflicted. Personally I really like the look in asylum and respect the homage to the TV movie daleks, but I know that dissuaded a lot of fans. If I had to I might make the supreme the only one a full solid color white, with the other Ranks being overall grey with large colored Dalek/Skaro symbols adoring their smooth domes perhaps?
I'd also remove the sound effect of their mechanical whirring movements to make them seem more sleek and reminiscent of pre time war daleks.
@@GreaterGrievobeast55I think branding the Paradigm “new” was a misstep. They would have worked better as quirky throwbacks, some ancient subset of Daleks who went out exploring before the war. Calling them new set up expectations that went unfulfilled. The weapon swapping was a nice idea, but it’s not like we saw Daleks fail because of a plunger. They always seemed to have the tools they needed.
If I were designing new Daleks, I’d change the profile. Make the head a fat saucer instead of a dome, put an elbow on the plunger - then they’d look “new”. I’d have been down with drones that launch like rockets out of their skirts and unfolding spider legs, too.
No matter what we think of the Paradigm, I think we can all agree that _Victory Of The Daleks_ by Murray Gold is amazing.
Despite the fact that the Paradigm never really got their own full TV story, it is interesting how they were essentially the main Daleks for a while, like how Paul McGann was the main Doctor for a really long time
Yeah and, as a result, they were used in all Doctor Who merchandise, including the games where, in my opinion, they actually work really well even with their bright colours. I honestly think Victory's greatest flaw was it's writing. Whereas the Bronze Daleks were introduced with just one that showcased all of their abilities and how much of a threat they were, the Paradigm Daleks are literally introduced just to be looked at. It's no wonder they didn't seem threatening, they didn't DO anything threatening.
I think for part two i would have not have used that factory for the set, i would of budgeted in for a proper dalek ship set to be built or used a much better location with better lighting. I would of put my foot down and removed the hunch back, but kept the hatch, much like Prydonians Reborn variant used in Victory of the Doctor set. I would of also had the more metallic finish and mabye lowered the fender a bit.
In terms of story i would of had more drones instead of the Eternal and scientist, they can be made for big bang. I also would have had them be a hell of a lot more aggressive in attacking earth to gain more power and repair their ship to create more dalek units or have them retun to skaro with them beginning to rebuild skaro , the doctor and amy follow which leads in city of the Daleks adapt that story for part 2 of victory of the Daleks but make sure that the daleks get a proper victory at the end and the doctor is forced to retreat for once, cementing them as the design that beat the doctor.
I just read your comment after I posted mine and both of ours have the Dalek move to do an invasion of earth.
I would change the paradigm casings to the metallic paints they had in Asylum of the Daleks, maybe change the ship interior to something similar to Parting of the Ways but for the most part I would leave Victory as it is. I would change the end of the episode so it has the Doctor following them instead of remaining on Earth.
For the follow up I would have the Doctor desperately trying to catch up with the Dalek Saucer only to emerge to find Skaro rebuilt and the Paradigm Daleks currently in a full scale war against anything not Dalek in the Seventh Galaxy (or whatever galaxy Skaro is in). Witnessing the Daleks brutality once more the Doctor tries some timey wimey plot to stop that first saucer from arriving however is thwarted by the Dalek Eternal which would lead to the Doctor & Tardis being captured and brought to Skaro. The Doctor then awakens only to be be painfully interrogated by the Supreme and Scientist until the Eternal arrives to question the Doctor on the cracks in the universe.
I'm not sure what I'd do for the end. Obviously the Doctor would escape or flee from Skaro. Maybe have a cliffhanger scene with the Dalek Eternal having it's own piece of the Tardis which it acquired by reaching its plunger into one of the cracks?
I think you could get a couple interesting videos' worth of discussion out of that brief window where the Paradigm Daleks were already being pushed as the regular type of Dalek in expanded media, like the Only Good Dalek comic or the City of the Daleks adventure game. It's an interesting window into what future Dalek episodes with them might have been like if they hadn't backpedaled so quickly.
For the Paradigm’s reveal, I would use different colours as a homage to classic Doctor Who.
Gold=supreme Dalek.
Black=strategist dalek
Red=scientist
Blue=eternal (with a time vortex like the Dalek time strategist)
Grey=drone
The reveal should have had the supreme dalek exit the machine with only 4 of the red drone daleks instead of the other variants. Then later in the series they should have added the other ones
It's weird how well Grand Metropolis Zone fits with this topic. Personally, I love playing City of the Daleks and seeing those bright red Daleks behind the cityscape of ruined London. Really made them stand out. I also had the Character Building Dalek Factory set, my Mom ordered it overseas for Christmas. Fond memories of these guys all around.
As an answer to your question, I don't really know how to better make them useful. I would incorporate editing tricks to make it seem like more Drones were coming out of the chamber, non-stop. Just to show how much of an unstoppable force these new Daleks are. While we're at it, just show the Ironsides & the last Davros Dalek casings burned out and cast aside, as if they died off-screen. The Doctor would have made a snarky remark that they served their purpose now, and he could recognize that they didn't put up much of a fight. But he has to keep moving as he sees shadows of the new Daleks coming by, Daleks he can't recognize. And we don't fully see them until it's revealed later on. The Doctor can though, and his eyes could widen with fear, but the audience will have to wait a bit longer. The rest of the two-parter could be about the Doctor sneaking around a recently activated construction line aboard the last Dalek Mothership, showing they already got to work. With each color of Dalek operating their designated function with each reveal. A Dalek Drone in a red-hot production line. A Strategist in a cold computer room. An orange Dalek overseeing the production line in an overhead chamber glowing orange. Instead of being told how the progenitor & new Daleks work, he figures it out for himself. Of course, the Dalek Supreme finds him and confronts him in the pristine white chamber of the progenitor device. All the while Amy & The Prime Minister work with Bracewell to keep themselves defended against the German Bombers. Because let's be honest, we all love to see more of Churchill. The Doctor could destroy the Progenitor device, but then the Supreme holds Earth for Ransom. The Doctor could threaten them with the Jammie-Dodger/Tardis self-destruct device, but the Supreme detects it as a fake. With no choice, and London still about to burn, the Doctor hurries home furious(While also under fire from the Daleks) because he's got no choice. And by the end of it, the Dalek Supreme uses a transmat beam to send the Progenitor to the war room down below. Because the Doctor wasn't the only one who was bluffing, thus showing that not only are these Daleks more formidable, but more cunning & tactile. Very rarely shouting too, as an indicator of their new presence. It sent the expired Device down below as a message, which the Doctor gets. All it really needed was to get the Doctor off the ship and not interfere with their escape or sabotage the ship. After it relays the information to one of the Strategists, then the camera pans down below, deep beneath all the meshworks of the Dalek ship, to the dark room where the Eternal sits. The only thing that illuminates it's yellow casing, is the crack on the wall that it is currently studying.
End of story.
I find watching this video hilarious because yesterday a few of us were watching Victory of the Daleks.
I have a soft spot for the paradigms because they were the first dalek design i saw during my introduction to doctor who.
Appreciate the Sonic Heroes music in the background.
I also think this is the first time I think I've heard you sound angry in a video. It's understandable given how frustrating it is that victory of the daleks doesn't do anything in the story to showcase why these new daleks are scarier than regular Daleks and then they immediately give into the backlash by quietly removing them from the show.
Despite liking the design I see the handling of the Paradigm Daleks as the first in many decisions that undermined Daleks during Moffat's era
I think if they had iterated on the iron side Daleks and slowly added and changed and updated parts they'd have maybe arrived at something more consistent and cooler.
Those designs you've shown before that blend iron side and old Dalek are the best.
Also keep the Daleks Smol it works better.
It's was soo over before they even started
"We are the paradigm of a new Dalek race. Scientist, Strategist, Drone, Eternal, and the Supreme"
Really glad Big Finish have finally picked these up!
If I was at the head of writing "Victory" as a 2 part adventure, I would have the homage to "Power" as part one with the Paradigm Daleks being the Cliffhanger and the Doctor openly stating the Daleks have finally beaten him, Part 2 follows with elements of "The Evil of the Daleks", making a Troughton two-fer...
The Ironsides question and resist their "purer" comrades and a Teleport chase ensues to Earth where a Dalek Civil war breaks out in the War offices with several officers getting caught in the crossfire, The Ironsides plea pity from the Doctor as it's 3 against 5, The Doctor simply says "no, you brought this on yourselves", so the Ironsides play sore loser and decide to blow up the war bunker with their "Bracewell Bomb" before meeting their maker to the Paradigm, who return to the ship. Time is of the essence now as Amy, Churchill and surviving officers try to remind Bracewell what it's like to be human, while this is going on word comes through from above all the lights in the country are on, the Doctor realises these new Daleks are behind it and sends up 3 spitfires into space to stop the transmitter, Bracewell is now close to exploding, when Amy asks him if he has a special someone, this triggers Bracewell's memories of "Dora Bella", he recounts all the wonderful days they spent with her, this shuts down the bomb completely.
But it's not over yet, as a soldier comes through with intel of Luftwaffe's sighted over Holland and France heading for England, time is now of the essence to plunge the country into a blackout again, the transmitter is successfully destroyed, alas 2 casualties being destroyed in the dogfight, England is now again in Blackout. But the Daleks hijack the bunker's radio, bearing their message that although the Doctor succeeded in battle, he hasn't won the war... and that they shall return, departing and leaving the Doctor . The following day, the Doctor bids farewell to Churchill, who is slightly disappointed at not being able to keep any Dalek tech, the Doctor states "oh you don't need that stuff, wouldn't be British if you used it..." "I suppose you're right" Churchill smiles, cracking a chuckle, Bracewell resolves to meeting "Dora Bella" once more, Amy wishes him luck and gives him a peck on the cheek, and with that the duo board the TARDIS for their next adventure, the Doctor's parting words with Bracewell and Churchill being, "Show Mr. Hitler he's missed the bus boys", they all laugh and the TARDIS leaves, onto another adventure.
I would introduce the paradigm similar to the original, with 5 daleks being introduced, but instead have the progenitor cause the room to fall into dark. Allowing for a more shocking appearance and usage of the unique eyestalk design. With the Supreme emerging and commanding the ironsides to submit and obey their new masters rather than exteriminate them.
The same dialogue with the doctor occurs. But instead of the paradigm failing to carry out the ironside scheme. Enact the plan in order to make the doctor choose what to do
Attempt to destroy the new race before it begins or save Earth and allow them to escape
This allows for the Paradigm to actually seem intelligent and scheming
Regards to design, id mute a lot of their colours and maybe for the supreme introduce a secondary colour along with white to show a higher status
- Add some additional detailing on the casing e.g. maybe lighting like we see on the defence drone
- Make the mid section a lil bigger rsther rhan a thinner grey shoulder
- Give the base more lines and geometric shape like the NSDs
Mayeb that wouldve helped them become more a striking and imposinf design
I would personally have had the Supreme Dalek surrounded by four drones. That way you can establish the Supreme as an Emperor type figure, with the red ones acting as bodyguards, and displaying the Supreme as an important future villain. You could then introduce the other versions in later episodes, giving a chance to flesh our their purposes without needing to cram them in all at once.
While there'yre not my favourite design, I have warmed up massively to the NDP since Victory. I really like it when Daleks use colours to denote different ranks, and its something I'd wish they'd do more in the main show. The excellent Infiltration of the Daleks on RUclips does this well with the main three Daleks, being mostly bronze with different coloured accents.
If they were first seen in an actual decent set, instead of the awful room we got in Victory, I think that alone would do a lot for their public perception. And obviously, the more muted, metallic paintjobs we got in Asylum would also be a significant improvement. The designs have a weird mix of smooth lines like on the shoulders and neck section, contrasted with the spikier and more aggressive weapons and eyepiece. As much as I like them, I do think another revision to focus on one of those aspects more could do wonders.
I don't have a specific plot in the mind for the hypothetical second part of Victory, but there are definetly some things around the NDP reveal that could be improved massively. I think introducing only 2 or 3 different ranks could be a good start, like the Supreme, Drones, and maybe a Strategist as a sort of Commander/Squad leader for the drones. If you wanted to emphasise their power and ruthlessness, having some kind of alternate timeline like City of the Daleks could be a cool idea to explore, but maybe thats a bit much for just one episode.
Well, one thing that would need to happen in the second episode is clearly a scene with Amy talking to a Paradigm Dalek one-on-one, since that was the stated purpose of the increased height. I do agree that switching the design in the episode out for the one in Asylum of the Daleks would be needed, since my biggest problem with the Paradigm is the way they look in their introduction, and the Asylum redesign is less bad (but I still prefer the Bronze Daleks to the Paradigm, and the Classic or Imperial Daleks to the Bronze design). Using some digital 'magic' or careful camerawork to have several more Drones and one or two more Scientists would be needed. I'd also make it explicit (since there'd be time to do so) that they had different personalities, and that the Eternal Dalek is time-sensitive, serving the same role as the Time Controller and Time Strategist in earlier eras (something I think you may have suggested). The actual plot I'm much less certain of, but here's a thought on the personalities for one caste: the Dalek Scientists are naturally curious, to the point that they *need* to have conversations with beings that other Daleks would just shout orders at or exterminate on sight (especially fellow scientists like the Doctor), which the Doctor takes advantage of to win in the end (though the surviving Paradigm Daleks do escape).
If I didn't have to use the Paradigm props (e.g. they hadn't been ordered or built yet and I could change Moffat's mind on it), I'd take the opportunity to reintroduce the Imperials, possibly with Davros as well (the device they needed to activate would instead be something that created temporal replicas of beings from an earlier point in Dalek history).
We always called them the 'Health and Safety' Daleks! - they looked like they were meant to give the operator more room. Its a shame they didn't. Nonetheless, I was so glad when they got rid of them!
You cannot improve an excellent design!
If I was writing Victory of The Daleks as a two parter, I would make the reveal of the paradigm the cliffhanger of the first episode so they would have a whole episode to themselves. I’d use the Asylum of The Daleks design with the metallic shine and less hunched back and I’d change the ranks up a bit. When I was little I thought the red Daleks were guards to the supreme (probably because of the imperial guards from Star Wars) so I’d have two of them to act as guards and take out the eternal because in the original episode it has nothing to do. I also would obviously make a new set for the ship that’s reminiscent of the Series 1 and 4 sets. I might have the ironside Daleks put up a bit more of a fight just to show that the new Daleks had stronger armour and were more protected. I would keep the space fight part and the lighting up London part but instead of the Daleks just standing around doing nothing while that happens, I’d have them repairing the ship while everyone’s distracted and I’d show off their ability to switch appendages while doing so, but take out the Bracewell being a bomb part because I’d like to show how the new Daleks are more capable than their predecessors by not having one of their plans failing in their first episode. Ultimately I wouldn’t change too much about the episode but I’d just fix it up a bit here and there to give the paradigm more to do and show off how much better these new Daleks are than what came before them.
YEEEES MORE SONIC HEROES TRACKS!!! LETS GO BABYYYYY
Yeah, I loved the New Paradigm Daleks as a child. I can see now as an adult why some people don't like them, but I agree. The real problem is that they'd didn't do anything and that's why they were wasted.
Please do a video on the Peter Cushing films, as I think the ranks and personalities of the Daleks would be an interesting topic.
I think that you raise a lot of good points that I agree with. They're points I've heard before from others on RUclips.
I think regarding the point of making this a two parter, I simply don't think there's enough for a two parter. I think that there's enough there for an extended episode though.
I always remember despising them when I first saw victory of the Daleks as an 11-year-old. Now I know why I still had good taste back then… everything about them was all off
Sticking with the two-parter setup. You could have the cliffhanger for Part 1 be The Paradigm just about to reveal themselves but don't show it till the start of Part 2.
As for the story, keep most of what Victory started off with the same (Maybe slightly hint at Bracewell's memory being, not what he knows) for Pt 1.
Pt 2, showcase The Supreme, The Strategist and The Drone as your main Daleks (With the paint job they had in Asylum) with The Doctor and Amy witnessing this together and eventually escaping the ship. The Supreme takes charge with the other 3 regular Daleks' tasks to help make more Drones for a full-scale attack on earth. With The Strategist task with another operation as well.
Still, keep most of Bracewell's part the same for the other half of the story along with keeping in the spitfire fight for over the earth only now against an Army of the Red Daleks. You can use this to showcase the use of the back hatch for the different weapons concept.
At some point, The Supreme decide to kill off the other 3 Daleks as they don't match there level of purity. Maybe the Strategies axe them all of in one go within a part of the ship they're in. (Hint of one of them surviving, so you could get away with a future civil war with them)
Have most of Victory's last bit the same change up a few bits (Such as the Doctor’s reaction of the Daleks getting away and having to deal with this new iteration of them) keep the ending with the Tardis fading out with the crack in the wall and then transition to The Scientist watching it on a vid screen notifying The Supreme for any changes
Reveal that The Paradigm has made it to Skaro and have begun plans to set up a new base of operations and The Strategist reports their side diversion on earth went accordingly. With The Supreme reaffirming all of Paradigm that they will all be now Tully Victorious !!! (Similarly to how it was done in Lee Adams Dalek Short Animation)
The Pridonian's revamp is by far the superior Paradigm design.
My opinion on the way to improve the episode would be as follows:
1) Make it a 2-parter. End with the first of the new paradigm emerging.
Redesign the ship set. If going for a more stripped back look, make it look the Ironsides had scavanged or reused material from their ship to build the new casings. Maybe see the casings in shadow before the projenitor finished reconstructing the mutants.
2) Introduce the quintet of Daleks as 'gene banks'. Effectively making them the template for all subequent Daleks to be created- hence the beefier look for extra protection.
3) Have the ranks do something: e.g. the strategist scans Earth defences and makes a statement like "50 units required to repel enemy action!" etc.
Maybe show the scientist extract DNA from the drone (perhaps via the hatch) and inject it into the progenitor/breeding facilities and start mass producing drones that either man the ship or begin attacks on the attacking spitfiers. Have the paradigm drones facing down against the spitfiers rather than the damaged ships' systems
All whilst the eternal is computing the time corrdior to return them to their native time/place.
4) Reintroduce the Doctor's line about the Daleks constantly modifying their DNA and makes a comment about how counter-intuitive it is when the Daleks value purity so much.
5) Have the drones fighting the spitfires recalled into the ship once the time corridor is established- show that the Daleks are ultimately unconcerned with them once they have the means to return to their own time period.
I never even knew people hated them at the time I just saw them as a new class
What they could of done as an idea. Is they could of used some ideas of a design from some Dalek animations on RUclips people have made themselfs. One included a design that was half 1960's Dalek and Half Paradigm which looked good or they could of used it as a template to get some ideas from that design.
For a story, I would say once the Daleks created the new batch of Daleks, the new ones want to destroy them for been 'un-clean'. So instead of the Bronze Daleks taking thier shileds offline and allowing themselfs to get destroyed, they could argue with the new Daleks and a fight breaks up and maybe team up with the Doctor on a way to destroy them.
With the Paradigm Daleks I think their designs would have been better if the Rank colors where used more as Secondary / highlight colors and they all had an otherwise uniform darker color to make the colors more noticeable.
So whilst most of it could be a grey or black the color of the eye-stalk and ear bulb lights would be the biggest give away of rank then with the highlights so you can tell even if you are looking at them from behind, that would have been the simplest and most cost effective way to distinguish the ranks.
The other way would be more expensive and that is giving each rank a unique casing like making the Drone have a shorter eye stalk and 2 guns or make it more like a special weapons Dalek, give the scientist a bunch of extra eyes on the end of their stalk and a manipulator arm that has grasping fingers etc, but that would cost a lot more and slow down production of the Dalek props whereas if they are all the same but with different colored paint then then they can get them out much faster and more effectively.
First off, make the Paradigm Daleks bigger than the Bronze Daleks, but not as big as they were presented. Along with their colour scheme which should've been toned down and their shape which would fit an unwieldy unit like an enhanced Special Weapons Dalek, their new size just doesn't look convincing to me, it seems too "try hard" if you get me.
Secondly, I'd have the events of the 2nd part play out much like they did in the actual episode, but with more time to flesh out the details and more lead up to events. The planes that fly into space to attack the Dalek ship, for example. That _needed_ more setup and time shown to demonstrate how such a thing could be done in that time era.
Next, while I like idea of the Paradigm making the Doctor choose between destroying them or saving the Earth, I don't entirely buy Bracewell being a bomb that could destroy the planet. These Daleks were on the backfoot, survivors of a cataclysm that wiped out their race, these guys were _lucky_ to have found the Progenitor to begin with. Geniuses though they may be, how the bloody hell did they manage to make a bomb as powerful and as autonomous as Bracewell? Though I love the twist of them making him while making even him think that he made them.
Finally, I would've had the Doctor show far more trepidation and frustration at the idea of having to deal with the Daleks again, not only letting them escape but the idea that they are out there again and _will_ show up to ruin things again. Have the Doctor think that, although he didn't agree with how the Daleks of the Crucible were destroyed, they were all gone and he was at least relieved beyond relief only to have that relief shatter into a mess of crushing hopelessness as once again he has failed to rid the universe of this existence threatening enemy.
All rough and quick-drawn ideas, but things I've thought of at least a few times.
I REALLY hope they bring them back in some way for the new series, albeit with altered designs. Moffat is one of those guys that has great ideas, but also needs to be reigned in a bit so he doesn't go full lunatic mode.
Lol, Power Plant and Grand Metropolis music from Sonic Heroes.
Okay, I basically wrote this as a comment on a previous video but I would basically scrap the original story and write something entirely different to reveal the Paradigm Daleks. So, sorry if I'm cheating, but while the first part of Victory of the Daleks is good, I wouldn't want to be constrained to it since I would go in an entirely different direction. Also, I would have had another story set in the past before this one, and this two-parter can replace The Time of Angels and Flesh and Stone.
Firstly, I would have chosen an entirely different setting for the episode. Past and present Earth societies vs Daleks is something seen quite often and the Daleks would have no issue exterminating their way through them. Instead, I would choose a future, alien society (or possibly human colonists or such) vs the Daleks. This society would have developed advanced weaponry, with the potential of destroying a Dalek under concentrated fire (no one-shot kills like Journey's End, more like the weapons in Into the Dalek). The Eleventh Doctor and Amy would arrive on the planet, and be arrested as spies of an, as of yet unknown, extraterrestrial threat. The sight of soldiers on the brink of war may prompt the Eleventh Doctor to reminisce somewhat about the Time War to Amy, but only briefly, and in a way that avoids any deep introspection. Perhaps the Doctor offers to help these people, but refuses to become embroiled in a war, advocating his usual pacifism and urging them to come to some kind of common ground with their enemies (even when the horrors inflicted upon the natives of this planet are described to him, but not what the enemy is, only descriptions). The Doctor would very much assume these creatures, whatever they are, to still be capable of reason and dialogue.
The tone of the episode would be a sharp deviation from the general tone of the Eleventh Doctor's first series up to that point, being very grim and dark. Grey skies, corpses lying on the battlefields, harsh dark grey metallic bunkers and such. Very utilitarian. It would be during this expedition, after meeting characters of this planet (with Amy befriending a few and becoming close, like perhaps to a scientist or some unarmed local, maybe a soldier or two) that everything changes, with the news of an attack and the sounds of soldiers dying, maybe the sound of a Dalek gunstick and screaming. The enemy is advancing quickly upon them so the soldiers have to mount a defence. It is then that the Eleventh Doctor comes face-to-face with a single red Dalek.
The reveal of the Daleks would have to be utterly mortifying for the Eleventh Doctor, similar to how it is in Victory of the Daleks. He seems to panic, can barely even string a sentence together, muttering about how it's impossible and how it cannot possibly exist, and then his demeanour entirely changes - he starts ranting furiously at the soldiers to kill the Dalek. This leaves Amy shocked, and when she argues with him, he snaps at her to shut up and even insults her. The mere sight of a Dalek causes him to lose control. In a sense, the Doctor is entirely right, which Amy finds out when she sees the Dalek picking off the soldiers one-by-one. It sustains damage and shouts for reinforcements, demonstrating more of a level of teamwork. Another thing is the Dalek hears Amy Pond refer to the Doctor, drawing its attention upon him. The red Dalek scout retreats, giving the Doctor an opportunity to explain what a Dalek is and that they have to get back to the city (a fortified location) before more Daleks arrive. Amy however keeps insisting that the Daleks must be capable of dialogue or something, clinging to a belief that they can be reasoned with which the Doctor now entirely rebukes. Amy's naivety would have to be on full display here as she doesn't understand the Daleks, and so far she's not really encountered a species that's utterly irredeemable yet, while the Doctor is not only freaking out, but also is desperate to protect Amy from the Daleks. Also the Doctor would point out the difference in the Dalek's casing, how they've changed and become more advanced, and wondering how this came about.
There's going to be a lot of holes in this story since it's just a concept but I think the first part should end with the reveal of a Dalek saucer and the white Supreme Dalek talking with a blue strategist Dalek, asking for an update on the progress of their conquest (as well as the sheer size of the Dalek army). The strategist gives us a general summary of the Daleks' progress in conquering this planet, but mentions that a scout reported the presence of the Doctor, which while it frightens most of the Daleks around, the Supreme Dalek scoffs and remains confident of victory. Here we see the other ranks of Daleks, like the orange scientists. Here, I should clarify that the Eternal Dalek was a stupid idea (very un-Dalek, very forced "mystery") so instead I'm going to make the yellow Paradigm Daleks a sort of Command Dalek, basically an officer-class. These Daleks would be seen attending to the Supreme Dalek. The Strategist meanwhile will then petition a plan to the Supreme to destroy the Doctor and win the war which we don't get to hear. What I would want to achieve with this is to _show_ the different Dalek ranks without telling the audience more than what is necessary to know. The red Daleks would be seen as the general footsoldiers on the front lines of battle. The yellow Daleks would be seen attending to the Supreme, and later seen leading red Daleks into battle. The orange Daleks would be shown performing experiments, creating weapons and such. The blue Strategist Dalek would play an advisory role to the Supreme Dalek, not truly in command of any other Dalek, but sort of a role to itself. And obviously the Supreme Dalek would be shown in overall command.
In the second part, many things must happen. Amy's friends must die right in front of her, and Amy herself must be captured and interrogated by the Daleks, who torture her in horrific ways to try and gain information on the Doctor and the city. She must see the Daleks exterminate unarmed civilians, or soldiers that have surrendered while she begs for their lives. Basically Amy would have to witness and experience the horrors that the Daleks will inflict. There would have to be a great battle shown, where the Daleks are able to use co-ordination tactics, with yellow Daleks ordering reds into battle, while relaying back to the Strategist what's going on. Bioweapons and other insidious Dalek weapons created by the Scientists would be deployed too, overcoming the defenders who had put up a strong resistance. The Doctor and the Supreme Dalek would have to meet (possibly while trying to rescue Amy) and here would be the reveal of how the New Dalek Paradigm came to be, with the remnants of Davros's Daleks scavenging for a means to survive and hating themselves for their own impurity. They salvage lost ideas written by the Cult of Skaro about how the Dalek race could evolve, and model a new hierarchy for themselves based on other species' military hierarchies due to their effectiveness. Not only that but the surviving Daleks succeed in creating new, pure Dalek embryos (as they have access to superior Dalek technology, unlike the Cult of Skaro in New York) and decide that to survive, they need to upgrade their casings. Thus is the New Dalek Paradigm born silently and in seclusion. The Supreme Dalek would then describe how the impure Daleks begged for death due to their nature, and boast about exterminating them, much to the Doctor's and Amy's disgust. As for how the Paradigm could be defeated in this story, I think the Eleventh Doctor would have to exploit weaknesses in their command structure or communications, either showing Dalek arrogance by baiting some of the yellow command Daleks into disobeying the Strategist and being baited into a trap. The Daleks are forced to retreat, but not before leaving the planet broken and in ruins, with bodies strewn everywhere and the surviving populace left utterly devasted. And while a victory is achieved against the Daleks, it is ultimately a pyrrhic victory as the Doctor points out that the Daleks are still alive and thriving once more. Not only that but Amy is shown just how bad things could get, and also could swing back into the story where she forces herself onto the Doctor.
Again, probably very rough around the edges as I'm not overly sure of specifics but in concept what I'd want is to introduce these new Daleks with a big, Resurrection of the Daleks style story with a high body count. One thing that could be included is River Song (to replace the two Angels episodes) but I wouldn't want to have the whole thing of the Daleks being scared of her... it undermines the Daleks...
I love the Paradigm Daleks, I find them far more pleasing to look at than the preceding model. I like the colours, I love the voices. And Victory of the Daleks is a pretty solid story, let down by being a little hand-wavey and rushed in its second half - as others have said it really should have been a two-parter. I do think the negative reaction to the design on first reveal was largely the fault of other factors than the props themselves - the lighting is unflattering, the set is too small and under-furnished (it looks like a meat packing warehouse) and the choreo is abysmal - how much more menacing would these huge, sharp-looking monstrosities have looked if they were circling like sharks rather than simply lined up like toys on a shelf? The props look fantastic in Pandorica/Big Bang and the tweaked design and colours are great in subsequent appearances.
I also have my pet theory that the colours were reassigned somewhere between the props being commissioned and the episode being filmed, I have no evidence but honestly the yellow being originally intended as the new Supreme just makes so much more sense to me - it's like the gold Supreme from the second Cushing film, it's distinct in having black bumps, it looks like a giant wasp (it's my favourite, so maybe I'm biased). The red being intended as the Strategist and the blue as the Drone fits better with the established colour hierarchy, and the white works as either Scientist or Eternal. But making the white the Supreme works for a little visual pun and that seems like exactly the kind of thing Moffat would do, and I believe Gatiss said he liked the blue best, so maybe that all went out the window. I dunno, just my two cents worth :)
Whenever the topic comes up about how Victory of the Daleks could have been better there's always a bunch of people saying they wish the Ironsides had fought back and not been exterminated and started a new Dalek civil war and I'm sorry but I just don't agree at all. The whole point of the Paradigm as stated in the episode was to clear away all the convoluted continuity/lore and take them back to basics, and having the Paradigm just casually obliterate their 'inferior' kin is the most Dalek thing I can think of. It works, it makes perfect sense, and as the tie-in games and comics for s5 show they planned to JUST use Paradigm Daleks going forward. But fans threw a hissy over the new design, totally overreacted, and the production team backed right off from the ideas they had for the Daleks in the Eleventh Doctor era, resulting in perhaps the weakest and messiest era for the Daleks in decades. It's a crying shame. Had production taken just a little more care with the Victory reveal they could have had something very different and far more coherent.
5:25 is a render I've seen around for a while and I just think that it makes the paradigms lines more uniform, with the slanting downward silhouette being more cohesive. They're also more cylindrical, so they appear more like majestic chess pieces rather than hunch back monsters, which perfectly taps into the allure of the dalek design, being majestic but menacing.
The paradigm are a good design in concept, they just need to remember what makes the Daleks fun to look at while also keeping the core of what makes them creepy.
MonoSupreme made a good video, "I'm SICK of the Bronze Daleks", which relates very well to this. The Time War Daleks looked like they did for a reason - it was reflected in the stories that were told about them. So, visually, the Paradigm represented the promise of a new chapter of Dalek stories. While it may not have been the whole reason for it, sidelining them and then reverting to the old Daleks completely at least contributed to the stagnation and general directionlessness of Dalek stories after _Victory_
I think the response to the reaction to _Victory_ was more harmful in the longer term than the reaction to _Victory_ itself. They just ended up not telling the story they set themselves up to tell.
I don't know how I would write the Paradigm Daleks introduction, but I have a theory based on the theme of Dalek purity that would explain how they got written out of the show.
The Paradigm Daleks were a defect model in the eyes of pure Daleks from Davros. The three Daleks that escaped from Journey's End were effected when travelling through time and registered as impure by the progenitor so the Paradigm Dalek design came from an impure Dalek mind of creativity. Sure the dalekanium material on the Paradigm models might be considered stronger than the dalekanium on bronze Daleks to help keep their superiority over the bronze Daleks, but eventually, much like the Supreme Dalek to Dalek Caan, the bronze Daleks would eventually consider the Paradigm Daleks as an abomination and eventually be hunted down and exterminated in a similar way to the two factions of Daleks in either Remembrance or Revolution of the Daleks.
Brilliant analysis and excellent idea at the end. I would have liked to have seen a part two which features a full invasion of Earth, ideally capitalising on the Second World War setting. Perhaps a stretch, but to the see the Paradigm Daleks interact with the Nazis, in great part the inspiration for the Daleks to begin with, would have been an interesting dynamic, particularly if the Daleks exploit the Nazis as they did the British Army.
God, its real hard comin’ up with ideas.
Here is my attempt to write a part two (sorry it’s a long one).
The Doctor, like in the original would use his tardis to fly up to the ship but instead of the l bright Tone to the ship it would be dark and gloomy with malfunctioning equipment, instead of the doctor standing in front of the three Daleks and explaining the plan to the audience he would instead try to guess their plan making the plan feel more elaborate and thought out instead of easily being seen from a mile away (yes I know the doctor knew they were evil from the beginning, he didn’t need to guess that part). Then the Daleks activate the progenitor (I think that’s how it’s spelt) and once it’s activated the progenitor doesn’t release them all at once, instead it only releases the supreme instantly demanding authority among the Daleks and the Doctor, then the supreme commands the other Daleks to activate the beam they use to turn all the lights in London on AND activates the bomb in the scientist guy (forgot his name) leaving Amy and the rest to disarm him on their own while the Doctor meets the new Daleks as the slowly get produced by the progenitor introducing themselves in their cool voice (I love their voices).
Somehow Amy manages to disarm the scientist guy and enraged the supreme Dalek orders the extermination of the Doctor in which they fail too and he goes back down to Earth and tries to find a way to take out the beam, i don’t want them to use planes. The Supreme knowing the doctor must be under pressure from this, sends the three original Daleks down to Earth to try to exterminate them in which the scientist has a Lesterson moment and tries to convince them to stop but fails and they exterminate him but he is still a bomb so they get blown up. The Doctor then comes up with a plan he uses the ruined remains of the exploded Daleks and finds one of their guns and adds it to a turret on the roof, the Doctor then flies back up to the ship facing the now enraged supreme Dalek that they’ve lost and tells someone using the turret coordinates of where he is currently standing and he fires, with the Dalek gun making it able to go that far and make it more powerful it destroys the beam and the ability for the Daleks to fly the ship leaving it drifting in space as the Doctor escape via the tardis.
It is always difficult to show the Daleks vs the Doctor if you want to give the doctor plot armour and also not undermine the Daleks as the superior race we are.
The colours of the Paradigm need to be darker and more metallic, the hunch needs to go, the eye needs to be a proper inhuman illuminated eye, not the 'fake deer' eye they used. We're not from earth and that is a camera relaying information to the Kaled inside, It's not an organic eye!
We need to see multiple drones to clarify that they are the foot-soldiers and not equal partners with the 'special' ranks, some of which might only need mentioned rather than seen. Perhaps a screen showing many Daleks but only highlighting the few that we presently have energy to create.
In order for us to remain a credible threat we need to have at least a partial win. The doctor needs to _loose_ something to defeat us or just to hold us at bay.
The idea of flying a WW2 plane in space was silly as was the idea that a few low caliber fire arms could damage a Dalek saucer. That needs a re-write. (The loss of one of the planes is not a sufficient loss.)
In the end the doctor should have to teleport Bracewell up to the saucer in the last few seconds before he explodes to damage the saucer and force us to withdraw. The doctor's only choice is to sacrifice his new friend to hold us off.
At the time I remember being so disappointed that the bronze Daleks were going away, just in general because I really liked their design but the chonkiness of the Paradigm Daleks didn’t help much either. If they had maintained that sort of “straight line” design from top to bottom like all previous Dalek designs, I think it would have worked a lot better. I think the eyestalk looks more menacing, the elongated weapons work, the ridges under the helmet look sleeker and even the base colours I don’t mind that much. But the way they bulge out just looks so off, especially in shots where you can compare it to the bronze designs and you can see which one works better. Slim them out, maybe dull the colours so they look less like toys and this would have gone over a lot better. (Also keep the look of the way the POV from the Daleks is. I don’t mind changing from blue to yellow, but the overall UI change when we see from a Dalek’s POV always annoyed me, I never liked that.)
Also, the voices were a welcome change. I like how much more sinister and gravelly their voices are in comparison to the high pitched screams of the RTD era, I wish they’d have kept that but oh well.
Because now we’re in a situation where the bronze Daleks have been around too long. I was sad to see them go but I also understood the necessity for change. The backlash was understandable but now I think they’re way too scared to ever try a redesign seeing how horribly this one went over - and that was back in 2010 when social media was a much less toxic environment. So now it seems like we’re stuck with a design from 2005 which lasts because it works but, at the same time, needed a revamp which never happened because of a few poor design choices which scared them away from that forever.
This would've been an incredible potential two-parter kind of story to introduce to new audience/reintroduce the Daleks if instead of 'oh the ship is in orbit' they'd had the Progenitor device on Earth itself and cut to a second part after creating the new Dalek paradigm, who naturally would surely have declared war on humanity, and then done another Episode in the same vein as Dalek where it turns into a bit of a survival horror bit.
But instead they did an episode where the Daleks don't really *do* anything other than very 'cleverly' for a moment trick the Doctor into acting out of anger, don't exterminate anyone other than older Daleks for seemingly no reason whatsoever (why are you culling potential manpower at a time like now, even if they are impure? you deal with that shit later) and then panicked and gave up on doing anything else with the Daleks for multiple seasons until they just reappear out of nowhere with their wholeass empire intact again, which the Doctor of course does literally nothing about. Another one of those dissatisfying Moffaty Woffaty writing things.
I think Victory needed a second part. Have the cliffhanger of Part 1 be the reveal of the new (metalic) paradigm drone. Part 2 features the other dalek variants as a new Dalek supreme council. Then, the remainder of Part 2 is essentially the last part of the original episode, but given more breathing room to explore its ideas.
For starters? Actually have the Daleks win beyond ‘they manage to run away’.
One thing I always wondered is if the paradigm daleks were more robotic or if they actually had mutants inside
Was gutted that they never became the primary design. I liked that they were inspired by the 1960s movie props.
I am not a writer but,
I would have kept the progenitor but rather than just have a machine that spits out complete daleks and casings, the saucer has a casing production line (like the capsule in power) and the progenitor provides DNA to help produce the dalek creatures instead.
Have one or two daleks building or observing the casings being built while the other grows the creatures. You could have the Doctor and Amy get aboard the saucer as the first paradigm units come to life. The Doctor is forced off the ship and chases them to Skaro to find they have already re-established the new regime and show off the new army in place. You could then write in the other ranks through external media perhaps (like in City of the Daleks or the only good dalek for example) or in newer storys within the TV episodes.
Whilst I thought the colours were cool, I can see why others didn't like them. Id have liked to see white supreme, black stratergist, silver scientist with alternatives to the plunger and gun, gold eternal and burgandy drones all with metallic/gloss finishes.
Again not a writer so I wouldn't know how to properly make the story work on screen😂
Interestingly on big finish they do give the Eternals purpose and well turns out the strategist isnt second in command. Its the eternal. Characterised as "middle management" his sole purpose seems to be to identify and eliminate threats to the daleks both within and without. It is he who realises their records have been altered and their greatest threeat deleted from their history. Ultimately he is destroyed when the 11th doctor uses an archaeon threshhold to put it into a time loop, aging it billions of years until it decays and dies. Proving this Eternal dalek is...nothing of the sort.
I would actually lean more towards part 2 taking place on the daleks rebuilding skaro, or using some time travel shenanigans so that when the doctor and amy catch up with them, skaro is pretty much rebuilt and the doctor is a on a major back footing. City of the daleks would of been an ideal 2nd part to victory and city of the daleks is canon. As Moffat has said that the adventure games are officially part of series 5 so they are canon.
I remember making a Lego paradigm Dalek with a 2 by 4 base
I should have photos of them, but can’t remember my old iPhone 4’s password :(
Now maybe I'm too forgiving and too easily entertained/amused, but personally I think the shape is what really did them in.
I mean, its quite a lot of changes. But if they were at least proper Dalek shape I think they'd have gone over just a bit better at least.
When you combine the plastic look with the chunky shape they look not only too much like toys but toys for toddlers to boot.
I swear I'm not trying to body shame the Daleks here (lol), that shape redesign is just the worst part of the whole package combination imo.
The only thing I can think of about the introduction is the set and the little things about how they did it. What exactly is intimidating about having them line up on a brightly lit set?
Almost feels like a lack of care was put into it. Like the writer(s) went oh viewers already know what Daleks are so might as well just put them on display like they're new cars in a showroom. Feels a bit vain too, like they just had to proudly display what they made.
(Actually that might be the biggest problem but I still can't get over the whole looks like a happy meal toy thing caused mostly by the shape. By the name of Davros what even is that?)
City of the Daleks worked well with all those drones
You know what they could've dome to make them more scary and cool:
-have only three dalek colours: red (warrior), white (leader) and blue (other) and make the colours more dark;
have a more prominent "the creature is fused with the shell" look ie more of a fleshy texture, a more hand-like apperance of the punger, the eyestalk is blinking, ect.;
-make them more hunched back;
-make the more leithal and unpredictable by shooting right as they come out of the thing.
What about the Eternal? Either don't have him, or make him more of a threat ie able to hijack the TARDIS multiple times. his desighn can be just the blue one but with a black dome.
I believe the room is a Cigar humidor room in a factory.
I always thought the dalek eternal would have another progenitor inside it. Either so, it could resurrect the dalek race if defeated or as a paradox to create the paradigm in the first place.
The simple fact that there was one of each, meant their roles weren't clear. If the red is meant to be a drone, and multiple, there should form a phalanx for their superiors. If the supreme needs a strategist, does that suggest it's dumb!? If the eternal is meant to be vague and different, then perhaps a nod towards the Dalek Time controller should appear in the rings, having them criss-crossing rather than one atop the other as normal.
Sadly they did look too colourful, and insufficiently different. If we'd seen a spider dalek, they might have suggested more varied capablities, might've inspired more curiosity...
the best thing moffat did with the daleks was their use in The Pilot
If I could re-do how the Paradigm were handled, I think I'd split up their story across multiple seasons. I'm not sure how well it would translate into the show for the average audience member, but here's my idea:
I like the idea of making Victory a two parter, but I'd want it to actually feel like a victory for the Daleks. Give their escape some weight in the overarching narrative of the show.
I think it'd be more impactful if the first episode was the Ironside plot, maybe with the Doctor getting separated from Amy before he learns about the Daleks so she has to slowly piece together herself that the Ironsides are not to be trusted. Some cloak and dagger mystery with Amy sneaking around the Cabinet War Rooms trying to avoid the Ironsides during a blackout, or something. Something to increase the length of the initial Ironside story.
Then the episode ends with the classic reveal, the Daleks proclaiming their victory as they teleport out of London. But before the Doctor can follow the Daleks to their ship, Bracewell is immediately activated. The Doctor has to decide if he wants to leap on the chance to stop the Daleks before they can do whatever they're going to do, or he can stay and try to deactivate the bomb. Obviously he stays, and the Daleks just escape. We don't know what their big victory was, but the Doctor has a pit in his stomach, knowing that they did *something* and he has no idea what it could be. The episode ends on that kinda dire, foreboding note.
The next run of episodes wouldn't pick up from this story. Maybe the Doctor is angsty and actively searching for the Daleks, leading him around to the original series 5 stories. Idk. But what matters is that a few episodes later, he once again bumps into the Daleks, and figures out what happened. Maybe he comes across a planet under siege from a new and improved Dalek Empire, but he only meets one member of the Paradigm in that story, leaving the other types for future stories.
I had one idea of the Scientist abducting scientists and geniuses from across history, to drain them of their thoughts and bolster its own mind and become the supreme and only pure intellect in the universe. Or maybe the Eternal is seeding planets with Dalek DNA, attempting to cause 'pure' Daleks to emerge anywhere and everywhere throughout time and space, so no matter what their purity survives. Or something. Give each member their own motivations and characteristics and plans.
Whatever the stories are, the one thing I'd want is for the Paradigm to be their own unique characters. Akin to the Cult of Skaro. Maybe the leaders of the Paradigm are already starting to turn on each other, as Daleks are so prone on doing. Not outright conflict with one another, but more scheming and power plays, so each story is about a different faction trying to one up another faction, or grow its powerbase, or whatever.
Again, idk how well this would actually play out in the show itself. It's taking a single episode and spreading it out over potentially years to really come to fruition. I guess it could have taken the place of the Silence storyline as the main overarching plot, but who knows! Maybe this would all be better in the form of books, or audio adventures or something!
Honestly didnt mind these guys, thought their designs were badass
A good summary, although I liked them when they were revealed but less so now.
I disagree that they have sharper edges, and think the smooth appearance makes them look friendlier than the bronze Daleks.
They took inspiration from the Cushing movies, but made something much worse. The Cushing Daleks are taller, but still look like Daleks, having slats etc., and have lots of silver drones and only a few colourful commanders.
I thought they were the height of Matt Smith, as the bronze Daleks were to Billie Piper, not Karen Gillan.
One thing I'd have done is have the Supreme emerge from the Progenitor Machine with just six drones. Introduce the other colours in later episodes so we don't get the multicolour "Ice Cream Daleks" jokes that we did in reality, and we get to definitively see that the red Drone Daleks are the standard foot soldiers, not Dalek Sergeants like they became later.
If I were to write part two, I would make it to the point where the Daleks have already revived the other paradigm Daleks, and then have them instigate a sort of bombing raid. That way they could still use the sci-fi planes, and they could still have a victory, but it seems more like the Daleks are still a threat if you know what I mean.
I think the episode was OK as-is, I would have just sprinkled the Paradigm Daleks more in later Moffat Era Doctor Who episodes.
In Time of the Doctor when the Daleks reveal themselves to have taken over the Church, a Scientist Dalek could have been present to explain how the members of the Church were converted into human drones. A shot at the end showing the Dalek Command Saucer Interior featuring a Supreme and a Strategist Dalek along with a Red Drone Dalek on the ground leading the Bronze Assault Squads would have fit in to the episode just fine.
Into the Dalek could have had a Strategist Dalek on the bridge commanding the Dalek saucer, while a Red Drone Dalek could have led the attack on the ship. The only episode where I don't they could have fit in would be the Magician's Apprentice/Witch's Familiar, since Davros's presence makes more sense with the Bronze Daleks.
I think the Pilot also showing only Paradigm Dalek Drones fighting the Movellans would have had interesting connotations for the Dalek history, showing their transition from Red Drones to Bronze Drones again.
I think they could even shown up for the Chibnall Era: Revolution of the Daleks could have also had a Strategist and Red Drone commander involved with the Death Squad Daleks, and Eve of the Daleks could have featured an Eternal Dalek and Scientist Dalek explaining their focus on the time loop. A White Supreme Dalek could have been seen on the bridge of the ship fleeing the Flux before being destroyed, and Red Drone commanders could have popped up in the Power of the Doctor.
First problem is the lighting of the scene. The very first scene of the "dalek ship" in Victory Of The Daleks, is in low lighting , I honestly think if they simply kept that lighting, it would have helped hide the awful production of the dalek ship being filmed in an obvious cigar storage unit. The lighting of the scene is the worse problem. Second is that the dalek paradigm being peter cushing colour inspired was a horrible idea. There is a reason why classic who never did this. Tanks in general simply do not suit colours such as blue, yellow and orange. The paradigm daleks colours should have been Drone=Silver, Eternal=Black Supreme=Red. The third problem was that the story itself, where the fuck did the progenitor even come from?
First things first I’d get rid of majority of the colours. Make the drones a grey like they were in destiny but keep the white & Blue props (metallic colours) firstly show the power of them whilst using the “hunch back” to equip a powerful weapon to destroy the ironsides - Then go about showing them in the war rooms killing soldiers giving it more of a Dalek episode theme but in this case your getting a full squad of these Daleks just taking out everyone - the ending to the second part could even end the same with the Daleks flying away after another “victory” so to speak either way the doctor would lose in both parts
Making them taller so Amy can interact with them like Rose just for Amy to *only* interact with the bronze (or khaki green I suppose lol) Daleks is hysterically funny as a creative choice when you think about it. 😂
For a second part I'd make it so when the paradigm comes out they have the supreme accompanied by 2 eternals and 4 drones (7 daleks!) the other ranks being introduced later on, one of which later in the episode with a2 more drones (10 daleks!!) the eternals I pick because I see them as the supremes personal guard, ensuring that the dalek rule, through the supremes reign is... *Eternal...* When they come out I'd have all those flashing lights and all that smoke then once the daleks are out some of the lights have shorted out because of the amount of power used to create the new race of daleks, the supreme dalek still gets his dialogue with the doctor before one of the eternals tells him that the "TARDIS self destruct" is a jammy dodger and the supreme orders the doctor to be exterminated for his deception causing him to flee into the TARDIS, the supreme, enraged is about to order the drones to go down to earth when the strategist comes out with his 2 drones, the supreme addresses him and asks for his report and he goes over to a computer and scans the ship, he notes the massive power drain alongside other damaged systems and advises that due to the damage and drain they should take a tactical retreat, the supreme reluctantly agrees, in the end the daleks tricked the doctor, got what they wanted, drove him off their ship and if fully operational and fully crewed they could've killed him and wiped out the earth, the doctors trick worked on the bronze daleks but the paradigm saw straight through it, in the end the daleks got a victory over the doctor, always being remembered as the daleks who triumphed against the doctor, not only that but considering the daleks only left because of the state they were already in so next time they meet who knows what could happen? The next dalek episode could introduce the scientist making new weapons they'll be able to switch to
It pisses me off that we didn't see more, we gave the movie Daleks a fair chance, Hell they're even loved, maybe one day they'll come back with their revised designs
I'd keep the colors but make them more metallic as they do look good with the new finish in Asylum of the Daleks, reduce the hunched back but have each individual dalek have a different arm to replace the plunger, give the supreme dalek a black dome, give lines for the daleks that didn't speak, ditch the Bracewell being a bomb idea for a more scary approach like having the Dalek space ship bombard London and destroying both British and Luftwaffe at the same time and its up to the Doctor to stop them. The Doctor would stop the daleks from destroying london (even further than it already was) but they would go back in time to Skaro to rebuild but I'd actually show them arriving at Skaro and starting to rebuild with the episode ending with the Supreme saying "Nothing can stop us now" and then the episode ends.
Please give feedback to this rewrite.
In terms of a Part Two, I’d start off by having the Paradigm with the Asylum of The Daleks colours, and probably on a set that looks more so like what was seen in the S1/S4 finales, considering the Daleks are meant to be a part of Davros’ New Dalek Empire if I remember correctly. The Paradigm Supreme would emerge flanked by a pair of Dalek drones to begin with, demanding obedience from both the Doctor and the Ironsides. Instead of willingly accepting death, the Ironsides would protest to being exterminated by the Supreme, leading to brewing tensions and what could be the first shots in a renewed Dalek Civil War between the new paradigm and the children of Davros, with the Paradigm and Ironsides having a brief scuffle, in which we actually see their ability to switch weaponry
If I couldn't change the script, but had the ability to change something, it would simply be the set. The set does no favors for the Paradigm Daleks, hell, even the Daleks themselves. Going from this incredible, subtle lighting, hexagon patterned walls, to this glaring metal room does the production team no favors in making this story look great as the introduction of a new look to the Daleks. I honestly don't know why they couldn't have done something different.
I would have changed the set location to a worn down version of the one seen in Parting Of The Ways and I would have made it so that only one Dalek is revealed. This Dalek would later become the Supreme Dalek and would have been a more prominent villain in the Moffat Dalek stories.
Also I would have made the colours darker, or even made them similar to the ones in Genesis as this is basically a rebirth of the Daleks
I would just make them all one colour like red, black or white. It would also be good to see the old daleks fight the new ones when they try to kill them so the rest of the episode is like remembrance of the dalkes with more action
Cut to the exact scene where the paradigm dalek reveal them selfs.. but
It's in a similar style to the 2005 dalek ship interior design
The daleks plan works and out come the new daleks
But they're silver and blue in colour. They look more, if not exactly, like classic daleks from the 60s (which implies their future is the doctors past).
One dalek then starts making commands and assumes rank of supreme (later becomes the emperor of the daleks as seen in the tv21 comics)
Another starts shouting about the best strategy for dealing with the doctor, and so on. Ranks and colour changes would be shown in future episodes.
The doctor is told to leave, and this is his head start
The Daleks are coming.
The Eternal was second in command but yeah it might as well have been the strategist
I really feel like showing off the hatch swap would really have shown off the design.
part two would be, turns out that ship is not just some ordinary dalek warship, but a dalek farm, and production ship, using pure dalek dna, it not just produce one of each type but is churning out hundreds in a matter of hours, the doctor has to stop them, he fails as the daleks lauch a weapon that will wipe out all life on earth, doctor stop the weapon but the ship escapes guaranteeing the future of the daleks
I Thought they were great, and was baffled that they went back to old style which was played out.
id have had the supreme, the strategist and several drones make their appearance in victory of the daleks. the rest of the paradigm ranks would be filled out in later episodes.
Okay, so if there's time to create new props, make two more Drone daleks, and use clever camera work and/or CGI models to create the illusion there's a small army of them. If not, just use the CGI models as background extras. Or keep the classic Bronze models, and turn the Red Dalek into an Officer caste. Have it demonstrate the skill to lead a squad of Bronze Daleks into combat, making it a deadly squad leader. Rather than recycling the old Bronzes' plans for Earth, have the Supreme decide to capture the TARDIS to try and use it as a "time bomb" to cause a Time Quake that will restore the Dalek Empire, with the New Paradigm as the basis. Then reveal that the Eternal is modified with Gallefrayan DNA, giving it the ability to use Time Lord technology with ease. The Strategist and the Engineer can both show off their own respective talents by matching the Doctor's skills in planning and science-ing things, forcing him to step up his game. I'd probably keep the way the Daleks get thwarted in the original story, but as they escape, they reveal they got the space-time coordinates of Skaro from the TARDIS, planting the idea that they WILL return, in greater numbers.
I think the BBC and Moffet caved to quickly. They already proved they knew how to fix the design by the end of the era, we should have been given one or two other proper dalek stories that let them shine, even if it wasn't the most liked design.
They look awesome in asylum, really the yellow and orange ones just don't work. I just wish that in asylum they did anything. They just sorta stand in a room
They're not bad they're actually really cool designs and unfortunately most people don't think that 😔
nice choice of Sonic Heroes music dude
I'd really like to see a Dalek refesign that sticks bevause the bronze colour Daleks have become really overused
I wish they stayed with a redesign like the eleventh doctor chronicles and a new color scheme.
Personally I’d show more drones in the mix, just to make it clear that they’re drones. But my issue with the Paradigm Daleks is less about their colours which I seem to find way less egregious than most, and more about the overall 6-year-old’s-drawing shape and proportions. I think they could have gone to Imperial-level refinements, keep the core shape and proportions but clean things up. Because I am sick of the bronze Daleks, I am sick of the steampunk/World War punk aesthetic, the bare metal and exposed rivets might have worked to portray the mass production of the Time War era but we’re well past that now.
My ideal successor Dalek design would be Prydonian’s purified Daleks which look like movie Daleks rendered in New Who style, though the core shape and proportions are the same, the aesthetic changes are enough to make them look like Daleks for a new era.
I would introduce them slowly. Introduce the supreme strategist and done first. Though I would change the red for a grey colour in more of a homage to the classic Daleks they would then destroy the Iron side Daleks for being impure and then the Supreme and strategist will being planning an invasion of earth and start making more drones. The whole thing with Amy and Churchill getting Bracewell to design a way to get spit fighters into space to combat the ship will happen and the Doctor lowering the shields of the ship so the Spit fires can hit it however instead of destroying a dish it's to damage the ship and force the Daleks to retreat. Though I will also add a line where the Supreme states that the strategist finds out that Bracewell is a bomb but instead of one that will destroy earth it will wipe out London. The Doctor then needs to head back as the Daleks escape. The the rest of the episode goes the same.
I will then continue this to a another episode later on where the Doctor and Amy are captured by the Paradigm Daleks and taken to a rebuilt skaro and it will be here where the Eternal Dalek is introduced and the scientist Dalek. This will also give them a chance to reveal what the Eternal Dalek does (it can be whatever you think). I would also say instead of one Eternal Dalek it's a council which all seem to be focused on one thing which might be something temporal if you want that. Then the Scientist is the Scientist and basically they could hand Amy over to the scientists so we can see her interact with them. The Scientists are basically using Amy so they can develop weapons to use against Humanity. Then the premise of that episode is the Doctor having to escape and save Amy (probably have some scenes of the Supreme talking with the Doctor interrogating him about how the Daleks will rain supreme). But then having to destroy the research that the Scientists were conducting on Amy and then escape.
Or you could just have the Scientist introduced in that episode and have the Eternal introduced later. Which might be better. Then we can fully see the Scientist. And to add tension make it so the Doctor has to save Amy before the new weapon, (maybe a plague or some form of biological weapon can be used on her).
The if we got with the idea of having the Eternal introduced in another later episode have the Eternal council idea and use that episode to basically reveal what the Eternal Dalek (or in this case Daleks) do (could be the temporal thing again or something else). Basically have it that the Doctor needs to stop another invasion of earth and this could be the ultimate showing of the Paradigm Daleks were all the ranks are finally introduced. And in the end the Doctor stops the Daleks and probably destroys the Eternal Council or the Eternal circle leaving only one Dalek Eternal left which will be the one from the Series final. You could probably say that that Eternal is the aide of the supreme and the head of the Eternal council or circle (whatever you want to call it).
I think doing it with multiple episodes showing the evolution of the paradigm over three or two episodes would be very good because then you can have an introduction to each one at a time. I also think it would be good to have the Supreme, Strategist and drone introduced first. Or you could just have several drones introduced at first not with the ranks and then as the second episode goes on one of them takes up the role of leader and another one takes up the role of strategist. Then in the next episode we see the colours introduced. Also I would instead but the Supreme in Black like from the first Peter Cushing movie, then maybe use the red for the strategist or the Blue if you want to keep it to that. Then probably keep the eternal and scientist the same colour but muted. probably give the eternal a more metallic gold colour and make the scientists look more of a metallic orange almost bronze colour. you could also go for a silver colour for the drones if you want.
I would also say maybe in a later episode maybe introduce an actual geneticist but introduce them as a sub section of the scientists. I don't know? Someone else can come in here and try and work in a geneticist or could also give me some help on the colours. But that is my idea anyway.
They need to bring back the Paradigm Daleks.
People blame fans for their failure, and those people are goofy
The studio made lots of mistakes and gave the fans little to work with
When I first watched this episode as a wee lad I thought it and the daleks were rubbish
When I rewatched doctor who has an allegedly more sentient being I was willing to give it another chance. I hadn’t seen them since then other than the brief cameos in later episodes and so I told myself that I probably exaggerated their flaws.
When they came out of that gooning chamber during my rewatch I was once again struck by how goofy they were. There were more flaws than I even remembered from childhood.
Now Doctor who is at a point where I’ll probably never care to watch any of the new episodes going forward. They may or may not finally release a new design, but I won’t be there to see it. It may not have been the last chance to update the daleks again, but it was definitely the last chance for me in retrospect.