Thank you sir. As a newbie who does not know jack, this truly answered a couple of questions i had. 1) I realized i needed this tool for edge and center finding. I realized there is a difference between just edge finders and edge/center finders. 2) I realized i could set the machine coordinates for my CNC mill using a center finder to find the center of a designated hole on my tool fixture plate which sits atop my CNC table. 3) I realized that I don't need to spin the edge/center finding tool and run the risk of wrecking it. I can feel it with my finger. This seems so obvious I don't know any anyone including myself had not thought of this earlier. You ought to win the Nobel Prize for this. 4) I realized a couple of other things my brain has already forgotten due to my terrible memory! I need to re-watch the video. After watching this video, I just put in an order for a Fowler 3/8" edge & center finder. I'm getting the 3/8" version as I have a Taig and that's the largest ER16 collet I have. A 1/2" collect i don't have so i avoided that. I have no idea if this brand is any good. I hope it works.
I am using Starett edge finders on a CNC Laguna router table - mostly for woodworking but occasionally aluminum. My system is not as precise as a machinist's mill, but it can be set to perhaps 0.001" to 0.002" accuracy. With the spinning center finder method It was laborious. I found that I can quickly and easily feel with my finder the edge at 0.001" accuracy using the static method you described. So much easier and quicker. This is one of the best tips I have discovered... THANK YOU.
That's an interesting idea that I have not heard or seen done before. I like that. I have always used a stop or some other fixture method to find edge on round or angled parts.
The static (non rotating) method you show is OK if your center finder body is in an accurate concentric collet, in an accurate concentric spindle nose (i.e. concentric with the spindle bearings). However, if your collet is not concentric for any reason, it should be used in the spinning condition to find the actual centerline of the spindle rotation. Difficult to describe exactly without visuals, but if you’re looking for optimal accuracy, spin it and deal with eccentricity some other way so that you can maintain tolerances of finished surfaces.
Yes I addressed this note about a concentrc collet/holder in the video. I have tested the static method to be repeatable and accurate to about three tenths. You won't get any better than that rotating it.
I've used the dead spindle/feel for alignment method with the center finder end for years. No one told me how, no one I asked even knew how, so I figured that out on my own. Funny thing is, it never occurred to me to do the same with the edge finder end. I'll try it.
I get picked on at work for using an edge finder without the spindle moving - glad to see I'm not the only one! I find it more consistent than the spinning method
Excellent! That is a breath of fresh air to hear from you. I keep telling everyone that they have to do what works for them and stop worrying about what everyone else is doing. If it indeed works and you like it then do it.
Excellent video..!! Super helpful tips that will help tremendously improve my skills.. I am new to machining and I have been struggling with finding centers and edges, often.. I have no formal training or mentoring or even any on the job training and I have relied heavily on RUclips videos for new ideas.. I am getting a few tools put together in my shop and find machining very interesting and extremely challenging while learning to use the tools properly.. Earned my subscription immediately..!! Thank You..!!
Your feeling vs spinning method works especially well for hole finders since you can move +/- in each axis. I think your 0.0003" is a safe figure to consider for repeatability, although I think in general the sharp step is easy to feel.
Thanks for an excellent production. I'm really keen to find out more about your mill/ dro set up. I have an R8 spindle Bridgeport clone - what do I need to upgrade it to something like yours? Kind regards from John Spargo in Cape Town
Glad you enjoyed it. There are very rough build your own style CNC conversion kits out there but I would look at the Milltronics or TRAK retrofits. We have several TRAK machines and use them every day with very few issues.
Never thought about using a center finder like that. Question, I take it you use very light pressure on the spindle? Im always worried Id damage my center finder with too much pressure.
Do you have another way of using the center finder? Yes light pressure is all you need. You only need contact with the surface you are referencing. Cranking down on it will only distort the material and give you a false measurement.
Good point! If you are concerned with your spindle run-out I would not recommend using an edge finder, at that accuracy I think using an indicator would be more appropriate. Most spindles will not have more than two ten-thousandths of runout. If you are concerned with that two tenths than I would recommend indicating your location off your part or fixture and also indicating your tool run-out on the holder if that is of concern. There are many levels of concern you can have depending on the precision you need to meet.
I've been looking for years for someone to tell me how to use those stupid center finders. If you run them like an edge finder you get squat. Your method of not rotating them makes me feel stupid that I didn't think of it myself. Thanks.
I was told the conical versions were got picking up features where a standard cylinder isn't long enough, like the sides of a shaft, you just have to make sure your quill depth stays constant.
As a layman, I don't quite get the purpose of this tool. I've googled a few articles and they all say it's to locate the edge of a workpiece prior to milling. What exactly does that mean? Eyeballing it, using a square or even your fingers isn't enough? Sorry for being a dumbass, I'm from the woodworking field so this is new to me. Any link to other readings would be appreciated.
Lol no worries. Yes the edge finder is a more precise locating tool. It lets you tell the machine where an edge is so you can base all your cuts off of that reference edge. Generally with about .0003-.0005 inch accuracy.
The finder with the sharp cone is a hole finder. If you have plans for a part with a single 0,0 reference point, you can put the part square in your vise, locate that 0,0 hole and all other dimensions can be read off from there. If you are working from others plans, it can be a big help to bring it into 2D CAD and make all dimensions relative to a single hole.
@@nheng6913 I'm a newbie here who doesn't know much. But I'm thinking I'd design a small / shallow hole to be drilled into my part... and then face it off once I'm finished making the part.
I use both methods but no way would I trust the feel method for anything precise. It is often held in a drill chuck and the feel method is just too sloppy.
@@TigermothRacingTV Yes of course it's up to me, and to you. But collets are also subject to runout too. If you can afford to give away a couple of thou in tolerance great. Since you are only as good as your last part, you just have to decide how good you want to be. It does seem pretty simple to just turn on the machine and get rid of all the errors.
I have one of those dual-headed edge finders. They are, for the most part, useless to me because you can't use them on a chuck. If you do, the exposed end will come off because the other end is chucked firmly in the chuck hence it cannot rotate. Both ends are tied to each other with a spring and both need to rotate at the same time when using one end or the other. You would think they should scribe on the body of theses center finders: DO NOT USE ON A DRILL CHUCK OR DAMAGE WILL ENSUE. Needless to say, I will never buy a dual-headed edge finder.
Both ends of a double sided edge finder do not need to rotate. The tip should not rotate relative to the body. The spring is there to maintain alignment between the tip and body only. One issue I have noticed with an edge finder in a drill chuck is that the jaws do not clamp parallel on the body. Sometimes it will clamp on the top tip and not the body, leaving the body loose. I do not recommend using edge finders in a drill chuck because drill chucks are not very accurate in general. Using a collet will give you a much better result.
Thank you sir.
As a newbie who does not know jack,
this truly answered a couple of questions i had.
1) I realized i needed this tool for edge and center finding. I realized there is a difference between just edge finders and edge/center finders.
2) I realized i could set the machine coordinates for my CNC mill using a center finder to find the center of a designated hole on my tool fixture plate which sits atop my CNC table.
3) I realized that I don't need to spin the edge/center finding tool and run the risk of wrecking it. I can feel it with my finger. This seems so obvious I don't know any anyone including myself had not thought of this earlier.
You ought to win the Nobel Prize for this.
4) I realized a couple of other things my brain has already forgotten due to my terrible memory! I need to re-watch the video.
After watching this video, I just put in an order for a Fowler 3/8" edge & center finder.
I'm getting the 3/8" version as I have a Taig and that's the largest ER16 collet I have.
A 1/2" collect i don't have so i avoided that.
I have no idea if this brand is any good.
I hope it works.
Glad to help. Thanks.
I am using Starett edge finders on a CNC Laguna router table - mostly for woodworking but occasionally aluminum. My system is not as precise as a machinist's mill, but it can be set to perhaps 0.001" to 0.002" accuracy. With the spinning center finder method It was laborious. I found that I can quickly and easily feel with my finder the edge at 0.001" accuracy using the static method you described. So much easier and quicker. This is one of the best tips I have discovered... THANK YOU.
Never used the center finder. Now that I've watch you do it and how simple it is to use, I'll put it more to practice! Thanks for the tip!
Its a tool you might not use often but is fast and convenient when you do.
It's not actually designed as a center finder, its for finding the edge on a round or angled part
The right way is to spin it.
That's an interesting idea that I have not heard or seen done before. I like that. I have always used a stop or some other fixture method to find edge on round or angled parts.
The static (non rotating) method you show is OK if your center finder body is in an accurate concentric collet, in an accurate concentric spindle nose (i.e. concentric with the spindle bearings).
However, if your collet is not concentric for any reason, it should be used in the spinning condition to find the actual centerline of the spindle rotation. Difficult to describe exactly without visuals, but if you’re looking for optimal accuracy, spin it and deal with eccentricity some other way so that you can maintain tolerances of finished surfaces.
Yes I addressed this note about a concentrc collet/holder in the video. I have tested the static method to be repeatable and accurate to about three tenths. You won't get any better than that rotating it.
I've used the dead spindle/feel for alignment method with the center finder end for years. No one told me how, no one I asked even knew how, so I figured that out on my own. Funny thing is, it never occurred to me to do the same with the edge finder end. I'll try it.
Good luck!
Very helpful and instructive. I will put this into action tomorrow. Thank you again.
Glad to know it was helpful. Thanks for watching
I get picked on at work for using an edge finder without the spindle moving - glad to see I'm not the only one! I find it more consistent than the spinning method
Excellent! That is a breath of fresh air to hear from you. I keep telling everyone that they have to do what works for them and stop worrying about what everyone else is doing. If it indeed works and you like it then do it.
Excellent video..!! Super helpful tips that will help tremendously improve my skills.. I am new to machining and I have been struggling with finding centers and edges, often.. I have no formal training or mentoring or even any on the job training and I have relied heavily on RUclips videos for new ideas.. I am getting a few tools put together in my shop and find machining very interesting and extremely challenging while learning to use the tools properly.. Earned my subscription immediately..!! Thank You..!!
Thank you! Glad we could help, it is a giant world of technology out there to learn in machining.
Your feeling vs spinning method works especially well for hole finders since you can move +/- in each axis. I think your 0.0003" is a safe figure to consider for repeatability, although I think in general the sharp step is easy to feel.
Glad you like it. I found it to be a big time saver and once you get the feel of it its quite fast and easy. Thanks!
Thanks for an excellent production.
I'm really keen to find out more about your mill/ dro set up.
I have an R8 spindle Bridgeport clone - what do I need to upgrade it to something like yours?
Kind regards from John Spargo in Cape Town
Glad you enjoyed it. There are very rough build your own style CNC conversion kits out there but I would look at the Milltronics or TRAK retrofits. We have several TRAK machines and use them every day with very few issues.
@@TigermothRacingTV Thank you. Will check that out. Kind regards John Spargo
Great tips.
Thanks.
Thank you for this tutorial. Would you mind sharing where you got that mist coolant system??
We made a video about assembling your own mist coolant sprayer system. They are also available on amazon now.
Thank you for the tutorial. As an amateur machinist it was very helpful
Thank you for watching. Glad that it’s helpful
Never thought about using a center finder like that. Question, I take it you use very light pressure on the spindle? Im always worried Id damage my center finder with too much pressure.
Do you have another way of using the center finder? Yes light pressure is all you need. You only need contact with the surface you are referencing. Cranking down on it will only distort the material and give you a false measurement.
Thanks!
Problem with feeling the barrel and tip for concentricity is it doesn't account for spindle runout, spinning it does.
Good point!
If you are concerned with your spindle run-out I would not recommend using an edge finder, at that accuracy I think using an indicator would be more appropriate. Most spindles will not have more than two ten-thousandths of runout. If you are concerned with that two tenths than I would recommend indicating your location off your part or fixture and also indicating your tool run-out on the holder if that is of concern. There are many levels of concern you can have depending on the precision you need to meet.
@@TigermothRacingTV I had Wells Index mill with a .007" out spindle🤣 Was good for oversize slots and holes
Good for alignment too
Very well done! Subscribed!!
Great to hear, Thank You!
I've been looking for years for someone to tell me how to use those stupid center finders. If you run them like an edge finder you get squat. Your method of not rotating them makes me feel stupid that I didn't think of it myself. Thanks.
Its odd to me that people don't mention/use them more. It saves a lot of time. Glad we could help!
I was told the conical versions were got picking up features where a standard cylinder isn't long enough, like the sides of a shaft, you just have to make sure your quill depth stays constant.
Very useful. Thank you. There's a lot of digital distortion in your audio. Decent lavalier mic needed!
Thank you, yeah it was literally one of our very first videos.
Please lower the volume level on that auto collet lock system I think I have hearing damage lol
As a layman, I don't quite get the purpose of this tool. I've googled a few articles and they all say it's to locate the edge of a workpiece prior to milling. What exactly does that mean? Eyeballing it, using a square or even your fingers isn't enough? Sorry for being a dumbass, I'm from the woodworking field so this is new to me. Any link to other readings would be appreciated.
Lol no worries. Yes the edge finder is a more precise locating tool. It lets you tell the machine where an edge is so you can base all your cuts off of that reference edge. Generally with about .0003-.0005 inch accuracy.
The finder with the sharp cone is a hole finder. If you have plans for a part with a single 0,0 reference point, you can put the part square in your vise, locate that 0,0 hole and all other dimensions can be read off from there. If you are working from others plans, it can be a big help to bring it into 2D CAD and make all dimensions relative to a single hole.
@@nheng6913
I'm a newbie here who doesn't know much.
But I'm thinking I'd design a small / shallow hole to be drilled into my part...
and then face it off once I'm finished making the part.
And I still have no idea how to set center. Ill find another video that actually explains it properly.
We’ll make one at some point
I use both methods but no way would I trust the feel method for anything precise. It is often held in a drill chuck and the feel method is just too sloppy.
That's totally up to you. We don't use drill chucks for edge finding because drill chucks are not made to be that precise in runout.
@@TigermothRacingTV Yes of course it's up to me, and to you. But collets are also subject to runout too. If you can afford to give away a couple of thou in tolerance great.
Since you are only as good as your last part, you just have to decide how good you want to be.
It does seem pretty simple to just turn on the machine and get rid of all the errors.
HEY ! A-HOLE ! I'M WEARING HEADPHONES . 1:46 R.I.P. . Good content though .
Sorry about that
the edge finger
I have one of those dual-headed edge finders. They are, for the most part, useless to me because you can't use them on a chuck. If you do, the exposed end will come off because the other end is chucked firmly in the chuck hence it cannot rotate. Both ends are tied to each other with a spring and both need to rotate at the same time when using one end or the other. You would think they should scribe on the body of theses center finders: DO NOT USE ON A DRILL CHUCK OR DAMAGE WILL ENSUE. Needless to say, I will never buy a dual-headed edge finder.
Both ends of a double sided edge finder do not need to rotate. The tip should not rotate relative to the body. The spring is there to maintain alignment between the tip and body only. One issue I have noticed with an edge finder in a drill chuck is that the jaws do not clamp parallel on the body. Sometimes it will clamp on the top tip and not the body, leaving the body loose.
I do not recommend using edge finders in a drill chuck because drill chucks are not very accurate in general. Using a collet will give you a much better result.
I wouldn't buy one either if I was using it in a drill chuck... because they aren't meant to be used in a drill chuck. Get a collet.