While it's threat level may not have been completely up to par, the localized strike face damage and lack of the backer delaminating, or at least catastrophically like we've seen on many other plates, does show that this is definitely a quality plate, just a bit overestimated.
Correct, this is basically a special threat plate. If you look at the data sheet for the 28590, the spec is similar to the ISAPI, and we know that the 28595 is basically a lighter version of the 28590. Personally, while I think it is a very good plate, with its capabilities still quite relevant in a domestic US context, the pricing makes it less cost effective compared to true level 4 plates. Hell, if you compare it with some of LTC’s other offerings, it’s not that attractive. LTC’s boron carbide standalone plates cost 2k a set and they are true level 4 plates, the 28595 come very close to level 4, but ultimately they are not.
Would seem it was made to stop Russian and Chinese threats. Kinda sucks we can’t get anything beyond 7n6 into the country. Would be cool to see what some of those new Russian rounds can do.
@@BuffRANGE Still though, armor in the civilian market has improved a lot over the years. The 100$ Botach level 4 performs way better ballistically with the same edge-to-edge protection and is only half a pound heavier, granted it has slightly worse delamination. In a war scenario, I think the ballistic level is much more important than multi-hit capability, as most engagement happens over long distances and repeated hit is unlikely. Unless this plate is designed for law enforcement, I can't think of any reason to not wear an ESAPI instead of this.
@@botwally2954 the dudes wearing this stuff are not hanging out in the open where IV is needed, its hard to get hit by a gpmg when your gooning in a rear area when the enemy is down to rifles and small arms, hence why it eats m855a1 like its cake, Thats where the cost/protection/weight comes in, USGI types minus very few are all mechanized, so that extra weight matters less than it does in other scenarios.
@@jay.d.8906 If you are just talking about m855a1 protection, then there are plenty of civilian 3+ plates that do that, have the same edge-to-edge protection, weighs about the same, and cost 1/5 - 1/10 or less. This plate feels like a cash grab.
It's not meant to be a replacement for the ESAPI or the XSAPI, but rather a sandbox specific plate, but I agree that at 3k it is overpriced. 2k is probably more reasonable.
@@derrickkolba we don’t quite know what socom wants, but apparently this is it. This might be a compromise for weight savings perhaps, and some specific requested technicalities.
its for real deal end users, not some pogs standing around waiting to get sniped at by some dudes with AP rounds in a mosin. To have special threat armor that thin and light is impossible to do for under a grand a set. This is a cqb/assault specific plate where youre going to be shot very close up with steel core rounds and need to be able to run fast or die. a set of these plates weighs less than a single esapi, The stuff we cant get will always be superior to what we can. There is a reason this stuff is reserved for tier 1 guys. The only way to get this kind of protection in a package around the same weight is going with polyethelyne but sacrificing steel core protection. Even high end poly plates struggle very hard with even green tip.
Hey did you see the Adept Armor Colossus plate? It's claims to be rated for both M993/M995 and Swiss P AP, at just 6.5lbs and 650 usd per plate. Utilizing a SiC-TiB2 strike face and dyneema backer.
Whats the strike face thicknes in mm? Whats 43000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000th of an inch to mm? Stop it already americanos, this is completely obscene
NIJ Standard's are for homegrown plates, So he is just using the NIJ testing standard, On the other hand it could be said the 30-06 M2AP can be used as a ''placeholder'' for some Rusisan and Chinese AP threats
So after you have tested all of these different types of plates, and you have seen all of the different performances from each plate I’m curious as to what you would choose as your go to armor disregarding the price or whatever. What will be your setup in regards to the plate, lllA backer, side plates, etc. thanks
@@BuffRANGE og it was from like 08-16 range so had to be og Edit: didn't know they made another dragonskin type. Maybe I gave the wrong name, it's with ceramic plates overlayed like scales.
@@foolicooli inventor, who had nothing to do with the first release reacquired the trademark name. He now sells under the name DragonSkin, 2022 in this plate is completely different.
Hey man, I was looking into picking up a set of LTC 28575-2 or a current REV/Gen ESAPI? Do you have any information as to what you think the better choice would be? Both would cost me about the same price
The 28595 is not meant to be a standalone version of an ESAPI plate, but something built for the sandbox, and for that it's pretty good as you are shaving a bit of weight and thickness. The issue with it though, is that for a plate of this category 3k is rather overpriced, 2k is probably a bit more reasonable.
@@huwhitecavebeast1972 boron carbide plates at retail prices backed by high end PE is going to be priced around 2k. RMA have cheaper boron carbide plates because they use a cheaper PE.
Question...are the Winchester & PMC 855 I've been buying fake steal core or not up to current mil-sec? Are they just cashing in on civilian ignorance to real steel tipped M855?
M855 is the previous NATO round. Sometimes it's referred to as SS109. What Matt's testing here is the "new" M855A1. As far as I know, there's no civilian sales of M855A1 yet, but the old M855 is widely available to civilians and loaded to mil-spec.
I doubt this plate can stop 7.62x54r B32 API, interestingly enough i just watched a video out of Russia testing that ammo against ''BR5'' plates which 4/5 stopped the round, x3 shots. Tho not up to NIJ testing standards still a good performance out of those plates, The performance coming out of this plate suggest they are not going to stop the round. Oof at the price.
Reading the specs, it says it stops 7.62x54 API fired out of an SVD at 2850 Ft/S and I’d be inclined to believe it, as it is a lesser threat relative to M2 AP.
Yes, but with a few caveats. It's mostly to do with how the industry works. The issue is every major player in the armor industry builds plates for the military, and they restrict their upper end plates to gov users only. They are also somewhat subsidised by the government to do R&D. equivalent
@@BuffRANGE I know that ESAPIs are generally rated to be used ICW with a backer of sorts like what the IOTV offers, right? Do you know how well they could potentially hold up when used standalone? I feel as if to get a more concrete comparison between ESAPI and Level IV, with or without the presence of a backer for both would be a more apt comparison.
The short answer is yes. The government can afford to buy everyone boron carbide plates. Bulk or contract locked purchase also brings down cost. Civilians are still coming to grips with armor, with a lot of obsolescent to downright snake oil armor on the market. There are some comparable plates on the civilian market, but they tend to be made by the same companies that make plates for the government. Hoplite for example sell LTC plates, the same manufacturer who made the plates in this video, along with an plethora of other government plates.
Yeah, it was at 800 for 14 last time I checked, and I'm sure it went higher :( Do you think the Tarkov game and its popularity has done this to the market? Or do you think it's just people becoming more conscious and aware of of body armor and what can defeat it? Maybe a combination of the two?
@@Henninger420 I think it's a combo of maybe both. Some of it is the general inflation of ammo prices the last 2 yrs, and I think some of it may be due to the increased awareness of what's needed to defeat armor?
Any idea what MSAP plates are rated for? They are showing up for sale for decent prices, though no hard info on their rating...maybe a test is in order...
@@BuffRANGE They are a suplemental armor system, used as side, DAPS, and groin plates. usually claimed as 3+ or 4 icw. newer models have assosiations to spear plates like the one here in their NSN info. iirc, 1lb 9 oz for a 6x6. older models are tan, early ones black, new ones are very rare, and green, same shade as the 595 iirc. often coated by a rubber-like dip. new ones are made by ltc, fabric wrapped. Often found surplus for 200-300/set. ill keep an eye out for ya.
I'm torn, USSOCOM Members/Operators should have the bleeding edge in kit all round (which in general eventually trickles down to Big Army etc in most cases) but plates have come so far recently. I think the procurement system is still lagging years behind in some regards. But what do I know, government requirements & contracts can be quite the rabbit hole...
I'd imagine it's made to go up against very specific threats, like 54R API. Cause that's what they're most likely going to be going up against, and they're willing to take and prioritize that weight savings as a result.
@@ABowlofPho I agree, they aren't fighting one another so it makes sense to only really worry over defeating the enemy threats. High speed low drag & stealth is the best ally for small SF teams.
@@ABowlofPho correct, it is oriented towards Russian threats. The 28590 data sheet is public, and the 28595 is simply a lighter version of it. That’s how it’s confirmed.
@@Tremulousnut I dont think so, there were many NSNs coresponding to ltc plate skews, namely a gen 4, gen 4 light (28590), a gen 5 (this one, 28595), and a yet to be fielded gen 5b (28570), nsn 8470-01-691-4258
@@DirtyGixxer I place LTC/Hoplite up there with Ceradyne, Hesco and RMA. They all have good and bad. I can't speak much about LTC/Hoplite because I've only tested one of their plates :(
@@BuffRANGE I apologize, I worded my original statement badly. Totally agree though, all of those plates are life savers, lol. Maybe Lyman has some “blem” plates of various models he can let go at discount for testing.
Nope. You must be looking at some other product on some other site. LTC doesn't run a publicly accessible catalogue. Plus, at that weight range, it's not going to be alumina.
@@BuffRANGE the data sheet for the 28590 and earlier 28550 says carbide. Going by the weight, my guess is it’s a predominantly boron carbide with some additives.
While it's threat level may not have been completely up to par, the localized strike face damage and lack of the backer delaminating, or at least catastrophically like we've seen on many other plates, does show that this is definitely a quality plate, just a bit overestimated.
I wholeheartedly agree. This plate has many excellent build aspects, we just overshot it’s capabilities.
Not 3k quality.
@@ghostwriter1415 m993 will pen ~3 cm of mild steel... what lowes are you going to?
@@ghostwriter1415 yea but at 18 pounds of weight though
@@ghostwriter1415 because that's the only thing you could get at Lowe's that could stop a bullet?
Glad I could help make this happen
Indeed! Thank you very much!
Thank you sir!
Thank you so much for your contribution!
thank you
@@BuffRANGE If you set a Patreon, I’ll donate to buy stuff.
Now the only LTC left to test is the 28601, supposedly a 6-7lb standalone XSAPI.
I wouldnt be surprised if the xsapi proves to be standalone too, with failing bfd on multi-hit tests.
I think it's important to provide the weight of the plate
ANOTHER PLATE FALLS TO THE WIN CHAD.
The almighty #300winchad
For the price, this armor is a trash scam.
Hopefully demo's like this make people question buys in the future on hardware without known specs :D
the fact that $300 plates from RMA perform better than $3000 plates is insane.
Factor in weight and comfort... And bean counters in military procurement
Correct, this is basically a special threat plate. If you look at the data sheet for the 28590, the spec is similar to the ISAPI, and we know that the 28595 is basically a lighter version of the 28590.
Personally, while I think it is a very good plate, with its capabilities still quite relevant in a domestic US context, the pricing makes it less cost effective compared to true level 4 plates. Hell, if you compare it with some of LTC’s other offerings, it’s not that attractive. LTC’s boron carbide standalone plates cost 2k a set and they are true level 4 plates, the 28595 come very close to level 4, but ultimately they are not.
Would seem it was made to stop Russian and Chinese threats. Kinda sucks we can’t get anything beyond 7n6 into the country. Would be cool to see what some of those new Russian rounds can do.
Yeah, US laws are really gay.
Got to admit at $3000 a piece, this is very disappointing.
I’m wondering if he meant $3k a set ?
@@BuffRANGE Still though, armor in the civilian market has improved a lot over the years. The 100$ Botach level 4 performs way better ballistically with the same edge-to-edge protection and is only half a pound heavier, granted it has slightly worse delamination. In a war scenario, I think the ballistic level is much more important than multi-hit capability, as most engagement happens over long distances and repeated hit is unlikely. Unless this plate is designed for law enforcement, I can't think of any reason to not wear an ESAPI instead of this.
@@botwally2954 the dudes wearing this stuff are not hanging out in the open where IV is needed, its hard to get hit by a gpmg when your gooning in a rear area when the enemy is down to rifles and small arms, hence why it eats m855a1 like its cake,
Thats where the cost/protection/weight comes in, USGI types minus very few are all mechanized, so that extra weight matters less than it does in other scenarios.
@@botwally2954 I have to agree. The ESAPI is definitely a better plate over this.
@@jay.d.8906 If you are just talking about m855a1 protection, then there are plenty of civilian 3+ plates that do that, have the same edge-to-edge protection, weighs about the same, and cost 1/5 - 1/10 or less. This plate feels like a cash grab.
$3k for that armor and its not as good as an ESAPI plate? Someone is making bank selling this stuff to SOCOM.
yes and they should be ashamed for the price our soldiers should be getting top level protection with that cost.
It's not meant to be a replacement for the ESAPI or the XSAPI, but rather a sandbox specific plate, but I agree that at 3k it is overpriced. 2k is probably more reasonable.
And it's our tax dollars that help fund this procurement.
@@derrickkolba we don’t quite know what socom wants, but apparently this is it. This might be a compromise for weight savings perhaps, and some specific requested technicalities.
its for real deal end users, not some pogs standing around waiting to get sniped at by some dudes with AP rounds in a mosin. To have special threat armor that thin and light is impossible to do for under a grand a set. This is a cqb/assault specific plate where youre going to be shot very close up with steel core rounds and need to be able to run fast or die. a set of these plates weighs less than a single esapi, The stuff we cant get will always be superior to what we can. There is a reason this stuff is reserved for tier 1 guys. The only way to get this kind of protection in a package around the same weight is going with polyethelyne but sacrificing steel core protection. Even high end poly plates struggle very hard with even green tip.
15:50 most likely an S-glass/E-glass scrim, and a very good resin to hold that strike face together so well.
Thanks you for the info :)
LTC restricting this plate is racism, and its only racism because I dislike it
^Solid logic checks out.
I'm still going through your videos so pardon my ignorance on this, but do you think you can do an end of year top 3 performers for plates?
I would think we could do one subjectively when I get a few more tested :D
@@BuffRANGE Awesome, stay classy.
Hey did you see the Adept Armor Colossus plate? It's claims to be rated for both M993/M995 and Swiss P AP, at just 6.5lbs and 650 usd per plate. Utilizing a SiC-TiB2 strike face and dyneema backer.
He has one, pending testing
Whats the strike face thicknes in mm?
Whats 43000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000th of an inch to mm?
Stop it already americanos, this is completely obscene
I mean who use armor piercing 3006 in battlefield?
NIJ Standard's are for homegrown plates, So he is just using the NIJ testing standard, On the other hand it could be said the 30-06 M2AP can be used as a ''placeholder'' for some Rusisan and Chinese AP threats
Well, this is clearly NOT worth 3k. Like the American Blast Systems plate, I am going to stick with my Dayton armor.
In the one test Ive seen, the ammount of BFD was concerning to say the least, and failing to stop 855 is a big drawback too.
How's your experience with Dayton armor and what plate did you buy?
Thank you
Seems like the Adept plates are so far the best plates on the market beating out the hesco 4800 and at a far less cost.
So after you have tested all of these different types of plates, and you have seen all of the different performances from each plate I’m curious as to what you would choose as your go to armor disregarding the price or whatever. What will be your setup in regards to the plate, lllA backer, side plates, etc. thanks
8:27 You can read the bottom of the plate that it does not need soft armor.
Hahah what a doof that I never read the label.
Can't be, some company in the MIC fleecing taxpayer dollars?!?!?!?!
I am not sure I understand ?
I thought you said 10k a set lol, if it's 3k for a single plate that pretty ridiculous still
@@chuckfinley3152 Gotcha. Yeah they're pretty damn expensive regardless
The golfers aren't yelling anymore because that first round of m993 penetrated everything and everyone within 3 mi
Nice
Definitely underwhelming.
A little disappointed mostly because of the associated price tag. Not as disappointing as the dragon scale armor tests I've seen. Similar price tag
OG DragonSkin or the 2022 Version
@@BuffRANGE og it was from like 08-16 range so had to be og
Edit: didn't know they made another dragonskin type. Maybe I gave the wrong name, it's with ceramic plates overlayed like scales.
@@foolicooli inventor, who had nothing to do with the first release reacquired the trademark name. He now sells under the name DragonSkin, 2022 in this plate is completely different.
@@BuffRANGE interesting, well if you did a video I'm sure to find it now. I just remember the hype to and fail edition, the lore thickens
@@foolicooli I tested their ICW III+ and soon the IV+
ruclips.net/video/EgwJ-4_0SNM/видео.html
Hey man, I was looking into picking up a set of LTC 28575-2 or a current REV/Gen ESAPI? Do you have any information as to what you think the better choice would be? Both would cost me about the same price
Always do the opposite of what reddit says.
It could save your life.
Best advice I've seen in a loooooong time ssdly lol
Good work.
My pleasure !
Hot damn!
The king of boating accidents. What armor? What unicorn ammo?
Oxide when will we see the DUDS test?
wrong channel bro
API that's what I would like to see hitting this plate...
What kind of API's?
@@BuffRANGE 7.62x39 API. Probably would stop it ha?
@@Bestportlandcleaners likely yes. Those are stopped by the L210. This strike face is thicker and better performing :)
The 28595 is not meant to be a standalone version of an ESAPI plate, but something built for the sandbox, and for that it's pretty good as you are shaving a bit of weight and thickness.
The issue with it though, is that for a plate of this category 3k is rather overpriced, 2k is probably a bit more reasonable.
Not even 2k
@@huwhitecavebeast1972 boron carbide plates at retail prices backed by high end PE is going to be priced around 2k.
RMA have cheaper boron carbide plates because they use a cheaper PE.
@@Tremulousnut Do you know what kind they are using?
@@cc-vg4ed branded stuff, but certain not 210 or 212.
I saw M993 and thought maybe it would have also deserved an SmKH, but I guess not. If M2AP got through, non-H SmK might have, and H would for sure.
have you ever done a test on velocity systems ULV polyethlene plates? searched your channel but didnt see anything
Nope. Who has them for sale?
botach battlesteel lvl 4 is bettter then this crsap and its $140 a plate vs $3000
Question...are the Winchester & PMC 855 I've been buying fake steal core or not up to current mil-sec? Are they just cashing in on civilian ignorance to real steel tipped M855?
M855 is the previous NATO round. Sometimes it's referred to as SS109. What Matt's testing here is the "new" M855A1. As far as I know, there's no civilian sales of M855A1 yet, but the old M855 is widely available to civilians and loaded to mil-spec.
This information is a surprise tool that will help us later 🙃
I know Hoplite has a rare LTC contract to sell to civilians, does any other company?
Bulletproofme, but they are quite old school and prefer to talk to their customers.
Wow
I doubt this plate can stop 7.62x54r B32 API, interestingly enough i just watched a video out of Russia testing that ammo against ''BR5'' plates which 4/5 stopped the round, x3 shots. Tho not up to NIJ testing standards still a good performance out of those plates, The performance coming out of this plate suggest they are not going to stop the round. Oof at the price.
At what velocity ? B32 API in x54r tends to underperform compared to M2AP.
Reading the specs, it says it stops 7.62x54 API fired out of an SVD at 2850 Ft/S and I’d be inclined to believe it, as it is a lesser threat relative to M2 AP.
Unrelated but are the plates army/government uses generally more superior than anything offered on the civilian market?
That I think will be answered when we test the XSAPI and then the Adept Colossus, and the SAS HEXAR 4. Generally ESAPI is > than Level IV..
Yes, but with a few caveats. It's mostly to do with how the industry works.
The issue is every major player in the armor industry builds plates for the military, and they restrict their upper end plates to gov users only. They are also somewhat subsidised by the government to do R&D. equivalent
@@BuffRANGE I know that ESAPIs are generally rated to be used ICW with a backer of sorts like what the IOTV offers, right? Do you know how well they could potentially hold up when used standalone? I feel as if to get a more concrete comparison between ESAPI and Level IV, with or without the presence of a backer for both would be a more apt comparison.
@@ABowlofPho I have a pair of fairly new revision ESAPi's at home that we need to test at some point..
The short answer is yes.
The government can afford to buy everyone boron carbide plates. Bulk or contract locked purchase also brings down cost.
Civilians are still coming to grips with armor, with a lot of obsolescent to downright snake oil armor on the market. There are some comparable plates on the civilian market, but they tend to be made by the same companies that make plates for the government.
Hoplite for example sell LTC plates, the same manufacturer who made the plates in this video, along with an plethora of other government plates.
Did you get those 14 m993 on a certain website the other day?
I’ve had these for a bit. I can’t afford current market value :(
Yeah, it was at 800 for 14 last time I checked, and I'm sure it went higher :( Do you think the Tarkov game and its popularity has done this to the market? Or do you think it's just people becoming more conscious and aware of of body armor and what can defeat it? Maybe a combination of the two?
@@Henninger420 I think it's a combo of maybe both. Some of it is the general inflation of ammo prices the last 2 yrs, and I think some of it may be due to the increased awareness of what's needed to defeat armor?
AP .300 win mag?
??? You mean the loads I used in the video ?
Any idea what MSAP plates are rated for? They are showing up for sale for decent prices, though no hard info on their rating...maybe a test is in order...
What are those? Got a link?
@@BuffRANGE They are a suplemental armor system, used as side, DAPS, and groin plates. usually claimed as 3+ or 4 icw. newer models have assosiations to spear plates like the one here in their NSN info. iirc, 1lb 9 oz for a 6x6. older models are tan, early ones black, new ones are very rare, and green, same shade as the 595 iirc. often coated by a rubber-like dip. new ones are made by ltc, fabric wrapped. Often found surplus for 200-300/set. ill keep an eye out for ya.
@@BuffRANGE probably talking about those Ceradyne side plates with the tan waterproof coatings.
I'm torn, USSOCOM Members/Operators should have the bleeding edge in kit all round (which in general eventually trickles down to Big Army etc in most cases) but plates have come so far recently. I think the procurement system is still lagging years behind in some regards. But what do I know, government requirements & contracts can be quite the rabbit hole...
Indeed.
I'd imagine it's made to go up against very specific threats, like 54R API. Cause that's what they're most likely going to be going up against, and they're willing to take and prioritize that weight savings as a result.
@@ABowlofPho I agree, they aren't fighting one another so it makes sense to only really worry over defeating the enemy threats. High speed low drag & stealth is the best ally for small SF teams.
@@ABowlofPho correct, it is oriented towards Russian threats.
The 28590 data sheet is public, and the 28595 is simply a lighter version of it. That’s how it’s confirmed.
@@Tremulousnut I dont think so, there were many NSNs coresponding to ltc plate skews, namely a gen 4, gen 4 light (28590), a gen 5 (this one, 28595), and a yet to be fielded gen 5b (28570), nsn 8470-01-691-4258
Hoplite 26605 are the best plates around for the cost.
Based on what? The RMA 1155MC is almost the same weight and thickness for hundreds less.
@@BuffRANGE For 700 they’re pretty good compared to other plates at same cost? Or higher cost
@@DirtyGixxer I place LTC/Hoplite up there with Ceradyne, Hesco and RMA. They all have good and bad. I can't speak much about LTC/Hoplite because I've only tested one of their plates :(
@@BuffRANGE I apologize, I worded my original statement badly. Totally agree though, all of those plates are life savers, lol. Maybe Lyman has some “blem” plates of various models he can let go at discount for testing.
Says alumina ceramic on the LTC website
Alumina would be white in color, and weigh a lot more. A few SME's said it's Boron.
I didn't think LTC actually showed their products on their website? Do you have a link?
Nope. You must be looking at some other product on some other site. LTC doesn't run a publicly accessible catalogue.
Plus, at that weight range, it's not going to be alumina.
@@trechtzach8151 i addressed this already
@@BuffRANGE the data sheet for the 28590 and earlier 28550 says carbide. Going by the weight, my guess is it’s a predominantly boron carbide with some additives.