Ah but it wouldn't have worked anyway, we Dino nerds want the real things, robots are alright but the real flesh and bone creature is what we want in a game
@@ciaranmcguinness8900 the dream that we'll forever chase. From what iv been told the best version of this for paleo fans is the Far Cry Primal game, never played it myself though, got into this type of game too late
My honest opinion... maybe it's for the better. I really didn't like them as mounts, as they were suprisingly slow and cumbersome. And yeah, i know, most of the machines you can ride aren't exactly lightning fast, but i expected the Clawstriders especially to be way more quick and nimble.
Same here. I get why they had to change up their format especially with the massively increased workload they took on but I hope they do more stuff like this
@@Furko08 they pretty much stopped during the pandemic when they couldn't be in the studio, there was the occasional episode but not many, then when they were allowed to film in person again they basically said that they were going to change the SOTW format as it took a lot of work to write, film and edit every week and that with the other content they'd begun making throughout the pandemic (like regular livesteams and a lot more Oxventure stuff) they didn't really have time to do the full SOTW so they scaled it back to pretty much just the quiz part of it and for the past couple of years it's just been that with only the occasional discussion video like this one
@@ethanlappin sucks to read but makes sense. But from what I see Oxtra still seems to be going with show of the weekend at least, I might start tuning in every now and then again Thanks
I absolutely fell in love with Horizon. I loved the first game, pre-ordered the deluxe edition of the second, and loved it even more. The characters are amazing, the enemies are incredible, the world is beautiful, the music is gorgeous, and the backstory is brilliant. The world building is the series' best aspect. It's such a deep, well-thought out world. There was clearly a lot of "okay this happened, so what would be the result?" not what a lot of writers do, which is just lots of cool things that logically don't go together. Ashly Burch is fantastic as Aloy. During the DLC, Aloy gets her firsr ever romantic interest, and I was so excited I actually squealed. As a 31 year old man watching fake people kiss. And yeah, the underwater Vegas level is amazing. The first section is underwater exploration and light puzzle solving, and it was so visually impressive I spent most of the quest with my jaw dropped, muttering "oh wow" to myself. Also, Morlund is one of my fav NPC's ever, such an adorable nerd. That quest just made me feel good inside, one of my top 10 gaming experiences for sure. And of course, the amazing Lance Reddick as Sylens, with his smooth as silk voice. You hear him as Sylens and go "oh you were born for this." RIP to a great man. But really, do you need more to sell you on it than "redhead woman fights robot dinosaurs with a bow and arrow"?
Zero Dawn was one of those stories really sticks with you. Perfectly paced up to the big reveal of What Zero Dawn really is, totally blew me away. Kotallo (aka best character in Forbidden West) actually made me laugh out loud a few times, don't get that too often. Go play people!
Kotallo's voice actor Noshir Dalal seems really nice too. Just after the game came out, I commented on Twitter about how Kotallo's views on disability and losing a limb were really moving to me, and he responded, we talked about it for a couple of dozen replies. Kotallo stole FW for me. And that's saying something, because I adore Aloy, Sylens, Seyka, Morlund, and Hekkaro.
That's so cool, It's always nice to hear good things about the people behind your favourite characters. Kotallo is indeed a stand out character amongst a roster of great characters.
Kotallo was great! He made me laugh, made me think, and he even scared me at one intense moment. Regalla is also amazing. She might be underutilized but her rage is always palpable. SPOILERS!!!!! Depending on your choices, you get to talk to her & she brings the tension. I felt if I said something wrong she would just quickly drive her spear into me...but not before she sets my car on fire with all my belongings in it.
You hear him as Sylens and just think "oh you were born for this you magnificent bastard." He's SO good as Sylens. Voice smoother than melted chocolate. Even when Sylens was being snarky and condescending, Lance is just nice to listen to.
@@Pro_Butcher_Amateur_Human Funnily enough, my favorite of his is when you can hear it in his tone, "Wonderful, I'm going to have to explain to this girl that the world isn't flat." But, then Aloy goes, "I've done observing and such. I know we're on a globe. Just never seen it." And then there's this wonderful stumbling to his tone as he tries to recover his trail of exposition.
Two things hurt Horizon unfairly: Its release schedule, and people playing Assassin's Creed before it. Horizon is a superior experience on many levels and fixes or eschews some of that series' bad habits, such as meaningless side quests, collectibles, inventory economy, level scaling and monetisation. Notably, its setting, characters and narrative are some off the best in the industry right now in the absence of, say, Bioware-style RPGs. It's one of few recent games that has really succeeded in immersing me.
To the early point about lack of engagement on the Horizon videos, I was playing it and didn’t want to accidentally spoil something or colour opinion on a thing that was in it by watching. That said whenever the channel does multi week coverage of a game, I check out for a few weeks. Anyway, Horizon Forbidden West is very good and I’m doing an NG+ run after doing Burning Shores and it’s really funny being super OP in the Daunt.
Do people not understand that Zero Dawn was underrated but they gave it away for free during covid. That's when i found it and played it for the next 6 months trying to max out every thing. After that I un-subed from channels if i even got a inkling that they were going to spoil Forbidden West.
As someone who stopped gaming for almost a decade, there was something special about the Horizon games that got me to pick up the controller again. I agree with everything mentioned- the music graphics, mix of biomes, looking cool and the twists to the main story. I just want to add my extra favorite things. First, the characters and story are some of the brightest gems of this series and the more you are curious about the world and the people in it, the better the rewards. While Guerilla devs borrowed features they liked from other games, they also didn't try to reinvent the wheel in certain places either. Things like side quests aren't unique when stripped down to the bare aspects, but are driven by the characters you meet and their stories surrounding their requests. Quests become about ponderous things like old age, leadership qualities, lost love, and proving one's worth as one becomes an adult. They also take on lesser weighty things like settling a bet also. The diverse combat was another thing that brought me to this series. FPS got to be very monotonous to me, so it was nice to take apart machines with traps, arrows, bombs, shredder discs, rope tie downs, melee or other hijacked machines. Thankfully there is more than one way to harvest a Ravager, so grinding for parts to me became a way to mix things up with my attacks. Finally the hidden details in Forbidden West are very fun to discover and easily missed if you are not stopping to drink in the world. Just recently I saw a little detail like an NPC trip while carrying a large chest to something hilarious like the Oseram accountant trying his hand at singing. A lot of love and hard work went into these games and it shines through.
I think one of the biggest strengths about the Horizon series is really the depth of storytelling. I loved how it takes modern concepts and blows it out to apocalyptic levels. If you approach it with thought, there are some massive lessons about religion, knowledge, technology and humanity that is incredibly compelling. That sticks more than the combat, but it does take a certain type of person to appreciate it properly - also you gotta play HZD first to get it all. Some of the best writing is in the datapoints.
I do feel rather sad at a scale conflict that is had by societal change in the story not really being integrated or instantiated by Aloy. They have twist but the scale of threats isnt really meshed with the allies and forces you do stuff with to help actually us as players internally track the stories conflict.
Not only that but it also takes the classic fantasy tropes like "good and evil gods" and "the hero whose unknown parentage turns out to be crucial to their status as the Chosen One" and gives them a fresh spin in a post apocalyptic science fictional setting.
@@mikeharris6429story and lore is half the gameplay for a lot of games. I can't fathom why people would skip cutscenes while playing the game. When I feel like skipping the dialogue or story of games I bench the game immediately
@@HazeEmryThe characters talk too much for me. Feel like they could articulate it shorter. I end up just reading the subtitle fast and then skipping to the next line because I couldn't be invested in their life story. The world's lore and Aloy's story is cool and interesting but I personally couldn't be bothered by the other characters and each community's story. And I am someone who enjoys story driven RPGs.
There are not enough words to describe my love of the Horizon games. Forbidden West is one of the few games that I have Platinumed. I am eagerly awaiting the next entry in the series.
I love the Horizon games. Given they started with the image of red head fights robot t rex with bow and arrow, they made one the most well thought out sci-fi settings imaginable.
It's also fascinating how they worked backwards with their story. Rather than creating the setting and lore and developing gameplay from there, they instead came with the concept of bow and arrow against robot dinosaurs first, then found a way to make it make sense.
@@MGsubbie That was my initial skepticism about the first game, how in the world do they justify that narratively, but sure enough they not only justified it but they made the entire thing sing a make so much sense!
@KayleighBourquin Edit: The information below is likely incorrect, due to a mistaken memory on my part. Initial: From what I understand, I think that's how the first Dark Souls game was made - levels first, lore second.
@@SWProductions100 I actually don't think that's the case. There are several different areas and bosses, especially in the late game, that needed to be there for the game to be narratively satisfying, but the aforementioned areas and bosses are bad. Really bad. This implies to me that it's the other way around, they came up with story first, then the levels, but it's possible I'm reading into things too much/incorrectly
I love the world and storytelling of the Horizon games; I think the breadth of concepts to explore, especially in terms of power, knowledge, and ethics, is huge. The characters are cool and well-drawn, and the lore is extensive but not overblown. Plus, personally I have huge affection for the games because they were there for me when my dad had a stroke at the beginning of the year. Part of it was escapism but also, Aloy's growth into someone who has a steady support system and is finding hope and joy even as everything is crumbling was hugely comforting ❤
When Aloy had her romantic plot in Burning Shores, I was SO happy, I actually squealed when they kissed. I was so happy that Aloy was letting herself be happy, and that she was starting to move past her hero complex of believing every burden was solely on her shoulders. That began in FW as she finally starts to accept help, and culminates when at the end the whole group knows about and is starting to plan for NEMESIS. Her character arc is her becoming a more grounded, happy, emotionally healthy person, and I just think that's beautiful and so wholesome. And that's not something you see in media often.
I appreciate that Horizon's quest log actually differentiates between Side Quests and Errands - I mostly ignored the latter and focused on the more story driven side quests to level up between main quests and it was nice to know beforehand.
The Horizon games are, for me, the perfect game. I love a game where I can go explore and be rewarded for that exploration, I love a game with a strong narrative led by an interesting protagonist, I love a game with a unique game play loop, I love a game with all the eye candy and ear candy you could ever want. Horizon has it all. The games are extremely worth your time.
@@aroccoification Everything you days is wrong, subjectively. Also why do you care what some stranger in the internet plays or enjoys? Have you no life of your own, that you seemingly must live vicariously through the lives of others?
@@KayleighBourquin um... living vicariously doesn't apply to this situation and I don't see how it could. I'm saying this to you because there are actually good videogames out there that you should be playing instead of that. I only say that because if people buy and get excited about horizon they're just going to continue to make mediocre games because that's what you're willing to pay for. Being that this game is so popular this mediocrity will be copied by other studios and I'd just rather avoid that. What do you like about this game anyway? It's so generic and stilted
@@aroccoification I have put over 200 hours into Elden Ring, and they were 200 mediocre hours compared to the 400 extremally enjoyable hours I've put into Forbidden West. To each their own I guess, but IMO, Elden Ring is very bland compared to FW.
Luke, I love that you've taken a few moments in this video to first think of why Horizon wasn't as popular, and then went forward to listen to Ellen's points, and find reflective counter points that would encourage people to check it out, from a hardcore Elden Ring fan! Love you guys, and love your channel and OXBOX too for this and so many of your conversations!
What I like about the Horizon franchise is that it's actually got some sci-fi. So many sci-fi settings in games also have horror elements, and so many open world games are medieval power fantasy or mythology, so it's nice to get an alternative.
On top of that, it's also a post-apocalyptic game, but without the grimy, radioactive, cynical take. It's also refreshing to have it be be bright, beautiful and relatively optimistic.
@@adambooth7755yeeessss! It’s why I love a lot of Kim Stanley Robinson’s books. It’s post-apocalyptic in a way that generally shows us adapting. It’s great. And yes, that’s why I love the Horizon series
Thank you Ellen, because people don't know what they are missing out on especially storywise. And they always find excuses to not play good games..... love the series, have played through both of them several times and cannot imagine a game world without this series.
Horizon has became my absolute favourite franchise Sony has released. I love God of War, I love Ratchet & Clank... But Horizon is just incredible, and so unique in it's world design. But being Late to the Horizon series I am still playing through and finishing Zero Dawn. The Open-World stuff, I don't actually mind because sometimes I don't want to play an ultra-hardcore survival open-world like Breath of the Wild or Tears of the Kingdom or a super difficult combat game like Elden Ring. Sometimes an Open-World doesn't have to be super complex and I like that Horizon fits into that niche because it does a lot of the systems really, really well.
I remember back in 2018 spending several weeks in Denver for a work trip hiking in Rocky Mountain National Park on my free time and thinking, “Why did I not finish Zero Dawn?” This is one of very few occasions where the real world made me want to dive into a specific game. I went on to get the platinum and pre-ordered Forbidden West immediately when available. I stopped playing Elden Ring to focus on FW, will I get back to Elden Ring? Probably, but there are so many ways to engage with the Horizon games. If you are fortunate enough to have been to places in the western USA which feature in the game that part is interesting. Seeing the way different cultures have risen up partly from how they engage with the relics of the past is unique . Many of the characters are engaging. The combat is fun, but you can avoid many of the open world encounters if you want. As much as the games “ubisoftified” they do many of the things better (if I’m running around collecting things they might as well be the black boxes playing the last moments of people who died a thousand years earlier), and some things about the same/worse (did not need dozens of terribly similar bandit camps). Are the games perfect no, but not every game can be Tetris. The Horizon games feel like some of the best in the genre.
Seeing how they interpret areas of America hundreds of years in the future is one of the best parts of the games! I really hope we get to see the remnants of Hawaii and the Quen empire in game 3?! Some of the best world building in gaming right now!
About the bandit camps (I assume you mean the rebel outposts in HFW) - Are they similar in gameplay? Sure. But I would like to encourage you to take another look at them because I would argue that they are part of the invironmental storytelling. In three of them Aloy comments on how they overlook Plainsong, Thornmarsh and the valley below the Bulwark respectively allowing Regalla to keep tabs on what happens in these capitals. Following Kotallo to the Bulwark Aloy remarks on how Tekotteh will be surrounded by the time he finally starts acting against the rebels and seeing how 2 of the 3 paths into the valley lead past a rebel outpost Aloy is absolutely right. The rebels are probably close to starting a siege. The outpost north of Aloys base blocks the only known path between the Tenakth clan lands and the fields of Plainsong. Effectively cutting contact between those to tribes. And than there is Falls Edge. Surrounded by three outposts (one in a side quest, not marked on the map) and a larger camp. You could say it is already under siege and the side quest has Aloy step in and prevent the rebels from conquering the settlement outright. It is stated that conquering it would have ment cutting contact between the Grove and Thornmarsh aka Chief Hekarro and his most loyal clan. Just to give some examples. In HFW we explore a region which is engaged in bloody civil war. The camps and outposts help sell this fact. As do the rebel ambushes Aloy might end up in or the fights between rebels and either Tenakth or Utaru she might encounter in the wilds. I for one felt some satisfaction taking them out one by one as it ment weakening Regalla grip on the land.
Man, Ellen was almost as distraught at this as she was when she implores you to try out Kingdoms of Amalur. Which, after Ellen's passion and watching my housemate play, is near the top of my pile of shame. And love a pun with some depth to it.
The thing that is, above all, so important and good and really hooks you in horizon forbidden west is that it can feel REAL. There were so many times that I thought, man, this is a real person and they have likes and dislikes and whole lives they live. You want to be invested in what they're doing, and help them because these stories feel real.
The story is the real draw for this series. I remember sitting down at the very beginning of the first game, when the npcs are telling the village a story in game. I just had Aloy sit and listen. I rarely engage games in that way
That's the best thing Aloy does in the game. I like the NPCs a lot more than the main character. I like the games a lot, but for some reason (chattiness?) Aloy rubs me the wrong way.
It's the other way round for me. I couldn't get invested into the story especially so the story of each community and characters. The only story I cared about was Aloy's and the world's lore. It was the combat mechanics and the robot dinosaurs that hooked me. And in Forbidden West, I feel like there was way too much dialogue I end up just reading the subtitle fast and skipping dialogues because the characters took a long winded way of getting to the point.
As a gamer who is more interested in heavily story-driven games, I gotta say that Horizon is one of the few open world games I actually like, and I don't just like it, I LOVE it. You can tell how much love and care Guerilla put into making these games cos the game lore is extensive, so much so that theres even a RUclips channel dedicated to JUST explain Horizon lore. The characters and their personalities, the tribes and their diff cultures, the world and its history, there simply so much detail that it feels very real.
Horizon's Marketing team. "So guys you know how we released Zero Dawn right next to Breath of the Wild? Well this time we are doing it with Elden Ring!" Also I'm just waiting for the PC version so I can check it out
To be honest, the supposed unfortunate dueling release dates for Horizon and other games seems quite overblown to me. Especially since they didn't flop upon release.
Ok I was convinced to give Kingdoms of Amalour a go after Ellen describing her love for it and it kicked so much arse. Now I'll give HFW a go after I've done TotK, good job guys
If you haven't played Zero Dawn, start there. Horizon is a story/worldbuilding rich setting and skipping the exposition would be detrimental to the experience.
I was playing Horizon Zero Dawn yesterday evening (I just got it a few days ago) and there was this close up of Aloy that had me thinking of Ellen. There’s something in their faces that looks similar to me.
Wrapping your head around the sheer scale of the apocalypse in the Horizon games is one of the most genuinely affecting moments in modern gaming. The entire biosphere died and had to be jump started by a crazy experimental hail mary *after* every living human on the planet had been converted into biomass for rogue AI. It's a sci-fi masterpiece.
After the first couple of trailers, I remember thinking "I hope we get to explore some of the old-world stuff and find out what happened there" - and boy did they deliver on that! One of my favourite bits of the first game (that I missed in Forbidden West) was the secondary narrative of what happened during the Faro plague, told through recordings/audio logs/etc. That and Bashir's "Apocashitstorm Tour".
Yeah, I guess I just wish the efforts to fix things or improve them into a new state were more holistic on the human end in Forbidden West. The ai interactions feel a bit hit and miss considering the indicators we get from the first.
I'm feeling exactly the same, but need to finish Jedi Survivor first. Starting and not finishing too many games here haha. FW is definitely what I'll be going back to next though!
I, too, needed motivation to get back into it a few months back and I’m so glad I did. I glommed onto it almost immediately and it was like a new game.
I've not played Forbidden West, but I have played Zero Dawn and it had such a great narrative that I completely ignored everything else in the game in order to see the story through until the end, which isn't something I normally do in open world games
I admit that I had some trouble with the first game, I tried it a few times but it just wouldn't stick. I am so glad that I decided to give it another shot and to play through the slow beginning of the first one and since then it's been one of my favorite game series ever. The storytelling is just amazing and it feels like something new and refreshing. Can't wait for a third game.
great discussion here, i did enjoy seeing the videos that came about forbidden west on the channel but the time of release against Elden Ring very much worked against this game so much. part of me can't help but wonder if availability is part an issue, if you're an exclusive that doesn't hit the mark where do you have to go. from what i can tell this game isn't even on pc yet which is easily one step that game could take to get into the hands of more people
I like that its not as hard as elden ring, i dont have time in my life to play a game that demands so much time consuming exploring and dying a lot, Horizon has a vey paceable gameplay that works for me and as a biologist I really really like the themes of the games and understanding how the machines develop and why they are needed and the science isn't too out of reality which I appreciate. I also really liked the board game they added, which is weird cause i normally hate the mini games in rpgs. Moving around in Horizon Forbidden west is the most fun I've had in a game. My only downside to HFW is that I wish they had focused more on developing Aloy's character and her old companions as much as they put that effort into the new characters, there felt like there were a couple of hollow points with the big flashy storyline whereas the quests focusing on randos you come across are really well done.
I have actually been looking forward to playing this game. But I don't feel the need to own a PS5 at the price it is currently, especially with a gaming PC. I'm just waiting for it to come to PC at this point.
I was thinking about this recently that games like Horizon should offer a "no side quests required mode" for people to just go straight to the main parts if they want. Just more xp and gear from main story beats that allow people to chase the story without having to seek too many berries. That said, I basically did that so I could play Elden ring and it just left me super underlevelled for the last boss with no save to go back to. I won eventually because spears are nuts.
Horizon ZD and FW are phenomenal games. What always astonished me was how they managed to justify the world and why there are robotic dinosaur’s roaming around and they absolutely do justify it with its story which is phenomenal. How our world is ruined by technology and pertinently AI and what the solution is and how it leads to this world in the games. My jaw hit the floor when I found out what had happened and like Aloy I wanted to know more. I’ll just draw attention to something was missed in this video and that’s the Cauldron’s which are totally different from anything else in the game. These are huge underground vaults with environmental puzzles and moving mechanical contraptions. The idea is to get to the core and shut it down but it’s usually guarded by a boss fight which is very tough and although these Cauldrons are optional the result is you get to unlock creatures for overriding. So it’s well worth it. Plus they are stunning to get through. And as you’ll find out later in the game why they exist. I never found the collectibles in the first game very intrusive because they are mainly datapoints which build the past world. You may not find all of them and a lot you’ll find as part of the story but they are intriguing instead of “Oh, is that it?” I have to agree with Ellen on the Tallnecks. These aren’t just towers to climb to reveal more of the maps secrets but they are a challenge in themselves as to how to jump on to them before you even climb them. In some cases you’ll have enemies to get rid of before you can. In others there’s a convoluted rock climb before you can even get to a point you can jump on. They are environmental puzzles in themselves. There’s one in FW that is impossible until later on in the game. I will say it’s advisable to finish the first games story before going on to FW otherwise you won’t have a clue what the main story is. GAIA and her subordinates, Hades? Yeah exactly. One thing I found so wonderful is how unique the creatures are. While some resemble domestic animal fauna there are some terrifying dinosaur types not least the Thunderjaw with its many weapons of attack. Trying to figure out the best way to take these down is a challenge in itself. Most are optional. Some are part of the plot. But the joy of shooting off parts of these enemies and then using their weapons on them is well, joyful. Pick up that disc launcher or laser cannon and see how he likes it. Ellen is absolutely right, this is a masterpiece open world game with linear stories. Side quests optional, collectibles optional. Although I wouldn’t just try to do the story because you are going to need to level up to tackle the later challenges. If you’ve not played either and have PS+ you can play them both. And trust me when I say if you’ve not played them yet, prepare to have your mind blown. These games are 10/10 for me.
Ellen you out of all the video game journalists I follow speak the most to the "quiet dozens" of us who love story telling and environment in ways that are so balanced but needs a bit more mental and time investment! I agree with you that Stray was last year's game of the year, that Horizon's story is just so amazing (still waiting for Forbidden West to come to PC) and I know that there are more than a few dozens of us who follow this channel to hear you speak to us, so keep speaking for us! (Also I look forward to playing Kingdoms of Amalur once the time opens up!)
I love the Horizon games. I realized when I was finishing Burning Shores that they scratch the same itch as the Mass Effect Trilogy for me. If they can stick the landing on the third game, it will make this one of the best trilogies in gaming. The games also have some of the best motion capture out there. It's enough that I have some issues with other games (looking at you AC Valhalla) because the character animations just don't rise to the same level.
The Horizon series is what got me into gaming after growing up in a household with no gaming systems. The world and mechanics are so rich and the story is honestly unparalleled. It deserves so much more love and attention.
12:10 What Luke is talking about is exactly what my dad and I struggle with "The Usual Suspects." If someone doesn't know the twists, you want them to watch without knowing and it's hard to just say, "It's a movie that starts with 5 guys in a police lineup." I picked up HZD because the commercials looked so cool, but the stories of the games have been amazing and it's hard to not spoil them for others when telling them to play the games.
Played the first one for about 4 hours and never felt compelled to pick it back up. I got it for free from PS+ so I didn't have that anxiety that I spent 60$+ on a game so I need to sink x amount of hours into it to at least get my money's worth. Also, the last game Ellen passionately advocated for was Kingdoms of Amalur and I picked it up because of her recommendation. I really didn't care for that one so I'm assuming that we just have different preferences in games. 🤔
HZD does the hero's journey really well - with a GREAT combat system. I LOVED skyrim's shadow assassin builds, and this is 100% that with a utopia/dystopia with differrent regions/cultures. It reminded me of a planet called treason by Orson Scott Card. I loved it so much!
Ubisoftification 🤣 even Ubisoft is sick of making you climb towers. In far cry 5 you climb one once and the guy on your radio say "don't worry. I won't make you climb anymore of them."
You don't even have to "climb towers" in Forbidden West. Climbing the Tall necks is a shortcut but you can absolutely explore on foot. One of the early Tall necks can't even be climbed before the last 10% of the game's storyline. The reason you're climbing them in HFW has more to do with how interesting getting there is anyway. Some of them are almost mini quests of their own.
Ellen, just wanted you to know, your Horizon videos are why I bought Horizon zero dawn and Forbidden west. Never thought I would like a game with jumping puzzles, but ended up loving both games. Thanks for broadening my "Horizon."
I love that we're talking about this, because I played the HELL out of Forbidden West and I loved it. I even loved it despite having to play it on the PS4, for which it is not optimised in the slightest. It's brilliant, and fixes like 95% of the (very small amount of) flaws from the first game - the character animations were an endless delight to watch, the sidequests were well-written and engaging, the combat was deeper (too deep, arguably), and there were a bunch of quality of life improvements that were always delicious. God I love this series - maybe the final game WON'T release at the same time as a AAA titan. That sidequest point bears going into a little more perhaps - the thing that HFW in particular does really well is introduce a compelling character moment to its fetch-quests etc. Rather than just "I need this thing, go get the thing and come back, I'll give you XP and loot", it's "my best friend has gone missing, I'm really worried about them but can't do anything about it, you seem super competent, if you go and find out what happened to them then I can give you XP and loot as compensation". It's hard to describe in a way that fully captures the difference it makes, but when I played the game I found basically every fetch quest satisfying from a narrative standpoint. GG have put a huge amount of effort into the writing and characterisation for the game, and it really pays off IMO
As a fan of the National Parks it was cool exploring them as they might look in the future. Arches, Yellowstone, Grand Teton,Zion, redwoods, Yosemite etc. Standing on Old Faithful as it erupts was a hoot. Finding a memo on how they figured a way to lower the acid levels in Grand Prismatic so you could swim in it etc
I mean if Burning Shores didn't do too well, that's at least partially because it's only for PS5 though. My friend played HFW on PS4 and absolutely would have played the DLC, had it been possible. I'd bet that she's not the only one who doesn't own a PS5 and isn't willing or able to buy one for that.
One thing I don’t see mentioned is the beauty and variety of the landscapes. This is what I always want in an open works game, but so rarely get: jungle, desert, forest, mountains, tropics, snow… It has it all, and it’s all so freaking gorgeous. I find myself just marveling at details of the plants.
Horizon is such an underrated series and its truly a shame that it dosent get as much love as it deserves. And honestly I liked it WAY more then elden ring (mostly because of the fact that it actually had a story and that I actually get to help the npcs to achive happy endings instead of seeing them suffer terrible fates everytime I finish their quests).
I don't think it's fair to call Horizon an "underrated" series. The only problem with the series (well, the main problem) is that they keep releasing games right around other big releases. ZD came out a week before BotW, FW came out a week before Elden Ring, and then Burning Shores came out a month before TotK. If they waited like two months on each of their games they'd have sold way better. They just keep trying to push massive open worlds on people who don't have time for it.
@@weneedaladder8384 One thing that I feel many people forget is that both Elden Ring and Tears of the Kingdom (and Breath of the Wild, if I recall correctly) were delayed, so it's not like the Guerilla decided to launch close to these titles. It's the other way around. As far as I know, Sony does not seem delay their first party titles to avoid competition, only for technical and quality issues. And release windows are always busy these days.
Thinking about Horizon Zero Dawn, I remember getting to the place where I started thinking, "Okay, this is just a cool hunting game," when Aloy came to the first Cauldron, and the whole story took that really stepped into the mystery of who Aloy was, and what had really happened/was really happening to Earth, that they'd hinted at from the very beginning. I've been hooked on Horizon and Aloy's journey ever since, to the point where I've even hesitated to play the Burning Shores DLC, because I know it will be a horribly long time before Horizon 3 drops.
I’ve been debating whether my next big game should be Horizon Forbidden West or Tears of the Kingdom, this video convinced me to finally install my copy of Horizon. Mission accomplished for at least one viewer, Ellen!
I loved Breath of the Wild, and I loved Zero Dawn. And then came Forbidden West and then DLC The Burning Shores. I've done absolutely everything there is to do in all 3 games, I've got 100% completion on all of them. Then comes Tears of the Kingdom. My family got TOTK, and while I haven't yet jumped on that game yet myself, I've been watching my family play it, and honestly, TOTK is not really jumping out at me, I'm not finding any interest in playing it at all. I'd much rather get lost in the world of Horizon. Currently on my 3rd playthrough of FW. TOTK just seems like a rehash or reimagining of BOTW to me. It literally feels like the same game with added crafting/building mechanics.
I really like the occasional "new/retro" format like with this video, Luke playing TotK blind, and talking about Dredge and the gameplay loop. The shenanigans are fun and hilarious, but in these videos you can tell they still really love gaming
I love these chatty videos! My partner ADORED Zero Dawn but struggled with Forbidden West for the reasons Luke gives. Still a gorgeous game and I love Ellen's enthusiasm for it!
I've not played Forbidden West yet (i was on PS4 waiting for the DLC, then it turned out it was PS5 exclusive and now idk what im doing with that) but i can say i broadly agree with what Ellen's saying, at least in Zero Dawn. She loved the story and so did I, but I get that many people might not get too much of a kick out of the tropes the game uses. Impending apocalypse, evil capitalist, group of scientists, et cetera, you know? I liked it, but it's fine that others dont. I think the main cool thing is that while fundamentally it does the "many things on the map, enemy bases, gameplay challenges, climb the tower" things that games like Farcry and Assassin's Creed did repeatedly, it does them all with a little bit of effort to be new and exciting. Sure, taking out a base was fine but now the base is a cauldron with a wholly different and, for a first-time player, very striking visually and atmospherically when it's been so lush before. Ive climbed dozens of towers to open a map but this time, I'm sneaking through an enemy encampment to reach a ledge to jump on a giant dinosaur and I'm climbing it while under fire. Even the hunting challenges, which i immediately dismissed as Just Cause 4 type gameplay padding, i found would teach me new and more varied ways to play. I had more fun playing after i did those challenges because i learned more ways to take out machines. So yeah, its fun. Cant wait to play Forbidden West, ill skip the collectibles tho lmao.
The problem with this whole discussion is that, at some level, we assume a game doesn't exist outside their launch window. That make sense for people in the industry but for a "normal" gamer it should be irrelevant. I rarely play things when they come out save a few exceptions. So I completed zero dawn in 2018 and 100% forbidden west a few months ago. I'm interested in the DLC but that'd have to wait a few months
That is kind of dismissive on how "normal" gamers actually pay attention to things. We get hyped during a games initial marketing and release and that is when you get the most people roped into purchasing the game and such. Then you get the other gamers that don't pay attention to marketing which would be the minority that stumble upon the games outside their launch window. Many great games go unnoticed and under-appreciated due to being launched at the same time as another popular game. They tend to get cult followings years later.
If you mean "normal gamer" in the sense that they only casually (occasionally) play whichever games they like the look of, even if they're older, then yeah. But a good amount of gamers will play anything that's new and advertised. Especially considering each person only has so much money to spend on entertainment, it's difficult to get noticed if headline games come out at the same time.
I'm feeling bad now that I didn't watch Ellen's Forbidden West videos. I didn't watch them because I was busy making my way slowly through the game. If it makes you feel better, Ellen, you're the one who convinced me to give the first game a chance. And it's now my favorite game series. To date, HFW remains the only game I've pre-ordered.
i hadn't played video games since i was a child until i watched this channel a few years ago and bought a switch and it opened the door to SO many games and good experiences!!!! and now the only games i have ever platinumed are the horizon games. i love them SO much, people ignoring them is SUCH a tragic thing - they are such good, solid sci-fi stories. clever, incredible story telling that make you feel SO smart and keep you fascinated. horizon is for someone who WANTS to really immerse themselves in some of the best science fiction in years, and has patience for thoughtful pacing and loves investing in characters. the game play is SO fun and smooth and the combat makes you feel so strong and quick and clever!!! god, i love these games. thank you ellen!!!
I feel you Ellen. I doubt it helps but both times I played the horizon games when they came out Meaning I played Horizon Zero Dawn while everyone played Breath of the Wild and I played Forbidden West while everyone played Elden Ring
I bounced off last year but picked it up last month when Burning Shores came out. Just forget about upgrades and having the “right” weapons and enjoy the amazing gameplay…particularly loved the design of the cauldrons…and the story of DLC was awesome 🤩
Ellen play Elden Ring and then still try to sell us on Horizon. One of my major problems with the first Horizon game from what I saw was all these dialogue cutscene that gives you all the answers to forgotten ancient history. That just sinks my interest. One reason I love Elden Ring is that we have common conception (what people generally believe), facts of the world (self evidently true things), and revealed truths. And we get enough of all of these that we can make our own model of what we think happened. What everything means. I think it's a major flaw in Horizon that they just... give you all the answers. I have other reasons that cause me to overlook it but that's the major one. I dont want to be given all the answers. I want to have a bulletin board with notes pinned to it and they have esoteric lines of string connecting them all together.
I'm right there with you Ellen. I only wish the Forbidden West DLC wasn't a PS5 exclusive, since the game was available (and I played it on) PS4. ...or better yet put it on Xbox as well. I'm so tired of console exclusivity, but that's another topic altogether.
Got to say - I've had HFW on my to-play list for a while, and I think I'll pick it up later this month. Ellen, your clear passion for it has got me very interested.
As part of the PC gaming elite. Getting Sony games at all is a treat. Horizon Zero Dawn has an amazing storyline and to me, quite possibly the best video game intro / tutorial I have played.
ELLEN I WATCHED ALL YOUR HORIZON VIDEOS THEY WERE AWESOME. Honestly so glad to see a video like this becauce both horizon games are solidly in my top 5 of all time, and I felt like so many people just skipped over them. They really outline for me the power video games have as a story telling medium. HFW can defo be mainlined in 40 hours but I had a great 120 hour playthrough (plus the DLC is FANTASTIC). Love love love.
The thing that really kept me playing HZD was the story, mostly the gradual reveal of what happened in the past. The thing that has stopped me picking up HFW so far is people saying it’s story is no where near as good.
I don't think that's the case. The story does take some time to pick up but once it gets rolling, it's pretty fantastic. I also think the side quests are, on balance, better here than in the first one.
I liked story of HZD more than the HFW. Have You tried to play HZD more than once? If You still enjoyed it even without the element of mystery/feeling of uncovering a great, forgotten story, then HFW will be still enjoyable as hell. It's better mechanically, a bit worse i terms of story, but still good IMO. Defenetily better than just replaying the HZD 😊
I wouldn't say the story is less good than HZD. It's more a "second in a trilogy" issue. HFW can't have as much discovery as HZD and can't fully resolve to leave place for the third chapter. Beyond that it is full of its own jaw dropping moments.
Oh it’s good. Ever wanted to know what happened to the other subordinates, now you’ll find out? Plus the story also heavily features Far Zenith which is teased in datapoints found throughout ZD. There’s still jaw dropping moments and shocks and loads of new machines, and the environments are as varied as the first. If you like ZD you’ll like FW
YES! I love that people are still talking about Horizon (I know the DLC just came out but you know, TotK). It is my absolutely favorite game series of all time and its gonna be hard for another game to top it. Thank you Ellen.
Fun fact that i just fineshed Forbidden West last week. Horizon, actually, have many quality of live features. My favorites are that NPCs moving with same speed as you and that you can create a quest to find materials that you need for buying or upgrading somthing.
Thank you for this. I fell off the second game for exactly the same reason Luke did. Elden Ring came out. But I saw a streamer get into the game for the first time, and it inspired me to go back into it. And I’m glad I did. It’s so good. Ellen said it best, too, when she said it’s a linear story in an open world game.
Horizon series is one of them games that has a wonderful story but there is some game mechanics that were tedious...not ubisoft tedious though 😂 really struggling to finish any of there games lately.
Agreed, I love the games but there are definitely things that hinder it at times, but I will stand by and fight the assertion that it’s even remotely close to being as bad as Ubisoft games!
Could not agree more. HFW is a brilliant amalgam of fun world exploration and storytelling in which you are intrinsic to the tale, not merely finding lore. And it's unrelentingly beautiful and the characters are three-dimensional and the plot takes engaging, unexpected turns. It's so rich.
I admit I haven't actually played Forbidden West yet, but I absolutely will soon. Zero Dawn was easily one of my favourite games of the last decade, and I have FW on my PS5's hard drive, along with the DLC, so it's next on my list. ... Well, Diablo IV and Street Fighter VI just came out and FFXVI is my most anticipated game since, well, since the last FFXIV expansion, so okay, I may not get to FW for a little while. But I will! At some point.
I’ve only recently played and complete HZD and I think it’s a great example of how to do the open world thing really well. I feel like it did what Ubisoft attempted to do with the last three Assassin’s Creed games by trying to copy The Witcher 3, but where Ubisoft got it wrong Guerrilla Games got it very right. Nothing felt like a chore in HZD. I wanted to complete the caldrons, I wanted to do side quests, I wanted to upgrade my gear, I wanted go after more XP to level up and tackle harder parts of the map, but not once did I feel like doing any of this was a forced way of padding out the game. I think people are burnt out on open world games and haven’t given either ZD or FW a real chance.
I love, love love HZD, and am very excited to play forbidden west. That said, I think the overshadowing had a lot to do with limited availability as well. Elden ring is playable on all consoles and computers, and playing horizon still requires a $400 metal box
Mad Max was such a good time. No one did car combat and desertic world as well as them. Their crunchy version or Arkham combat was also very satisfying.
Zero Dawn was one of my favorite games ever, I miss good Sci-Fi in the Gaming and Movie world anyway because there is so much fresh stuff storywise that can be done in that setting, so tbh I haven't gotten around it but Forbidden West + DLC is a must for me.
As a huge fan of the game and the series, I didn’t think it was overlooked. I bought it at launch and played the hell out of it. Same with the Burning Shores DLC, bought that immediately and played it through completely. It’s probably my favourite game. Anyone who overlooked it is missing out.
THANK YOU ELLEN! 💜Thank you for articulating exactly what I feel about this game and people who ignore or hate it (mainly because they barely played past the Embrace, *cough, Ian Higton, cough*) I avoided all videos on HFW at the time for fear of spoilers (even watching spoiler-free ones make the algorithm bring up ones with spoiler titles ☹) , I'm going to watch yours
I think the biggest issue with this series and by extension, the ubisoft games is the way they tell their naratives. There is a disconnect between the moment to moment gameplay and progression systems to the story and characters. In the Horizon games, your character is the only character doing the things in the world she does. She is the only one levelling up. She is the only one crafting her equipment. She is the only one climbing to the points of the tall neck. I understand this was explained with alloy having the focus, but the by design you never really feel apart of the world. The second thing that hurts this series for Horizon, is the structure of the quests. The tried and true get quest from npc, then fgo to area, kill some things, gather some things/save some people by speaking with them after the baddies are dead. Elden Ring and Zelda change that formula by send you in a direction and along the path you may get invoived with another quest that dynamically pops up. The quest themselves are not a straight line, the story branches on your actions and non actions. I will agree with Ellen on this point, the Horizon games do tell a pretty great sci fi story. The games are graphically beautiful. The majority of the voice acing is great. The music is excellent. The dynos are amazing! I love the amount of detail they have on their respective exo skeletal tech bodies. But the way they deliver the story puts me to sleep. I honestly feels like i am listing to a monotone dude explaining to laws of gravity to me. They need to re-structure how they tell their story by integrating more of the gameplay to it and remove the cut scenes altogether.
Oof first game came out same time as breath of the wild, second game came out same time as elden ring and then the dlc at the same time as tears of the kingdom. Bad timing that
I've wanted to play Forbidden West, and having put aside the PS4 for a Series S and a Steam Deck/PC, I just really want Sony to put it on Steam. I think giving it to that audience, much like Zero Dawn, will help the case MASSIVELY
Hey, I watched all your Horizon videos Ellen. Oh wait, that last VR one I listened to it for 10 minutes and then saw an Elden Ring video and started watching that and never came back. My apologies, here's a cat. 🐈
I was surprised by Luke's assessment of Horizon, in the sense that it has "outdated" features. It felt like that was the media's take on the game. I've definitely read that viewpoint in articles, but the reality when I've talked to folks that have played the game, is that most of them are as enthusiastic about Horizon as Ellen in this video. Regardless, this is why I love these two, we get such different (and great) perspectives!
I deeply appreciated all of Ellen's Horizon videos and I'm bummed that there wasn't more appetite for them during the release window. Guerrilla built an incredible world filled with satisfying combat encounters, interesting characters and varied cultures, and I'm so glad that they have Ellen as an advocate for their series!
I mean, the games are so good that they are making a live action TV show based on the story, and after going through both these games, yes, all the yes. People need to see this story, even the non-gamers. It's so magnificent.
I don’t agree that is how people feel about the horizon games actually. I’ve never heard that and I really loved the first game. Maybe that is more in the game journalism circles, but it was news to me
I've found both Horizon games infinitely addictive. The gameplay is just so perfect in both, it makes even fighting the most challenging of bosses a pleasure, and the story kept me guessing. It was addictive on both those tiers and now I wait for the third game anxiously.
Ellen, you have convinced me to jump back in, i made it a decent amount in and i don’t want to start over…so i gotta struggle and re-learn the buttons and mechanics…but it sounds worth it. I loved the 1st one
Ellen not using the fact you can ride on a mechanical velociraptor type dino to entice Luke to give it another shot is a missed trick 😂
Ah but it wouldn't have worked anyway, we Dino nerds want the real things, robots are alright but the real flesh and bone creature is what we want in a game
@@ciaranmcguinness8900 the dream that we'll forever chase. From what iv been told the best version of this for paleo fans is the Far Cry Primal game, never played it myself though, got into this type of game too late
Is it sad I never created the override for this particular mount?! It never even crossed my mind! Lmao!
If she'd used that point, the video would have been over there and then as he disappeared back home to play :P
My honest opinion... maybe it's for the better. I really didn't like them as mounts, as they were suprisingly slow and cumbersome. And yeah, i know, most of the machines you can ride aren't exactly lightning fast, but i expected the Clawstriders especially to be way more quick and nimble.
Didnt realise how much I missed just hearing Luke and Ellen sit down and talk about games for 20 minutes, this was real nice.
I also miss the Shows of the Wee of yore in Outside Xbox, Those where really fun.
Same here. I get why they had to change up their format especially with the massively increased workload they took on but I hope they do more stuff like this
I haven't watched oxbox or oxtra in a few years (oops) did they stop making show of the week?
@@Furko08 they pretty much stopped during the pandemic when they couldn't be in the studio, there was the occasional episode but not many, then when they were allowed to film in person again they basically said that they were going to change the SOTW format as it took a lot of work to write, film and edit every week and that with the other content they'd begun making throughout the pandemic (like regular livesteams and a lot more Oxventure stuff) they didn't really have time to do the full SOTW so they scaled it back to pretty much just the quiz part of it and for the past couple of years it's just been that with only the occasional discussion video like this one
@@ethanlappin sucks to read but makes sense. But from what I see Oxtra still seems to be going with show of the weekend at least, I might start tuning in every now and then again
Thanks
It's clear now: rather than another Souls Academy, we need a Horizon Academy for Luke. Looking forward to it!
I'd love that!! I think he'd have a great time - and we would, too! 😊
That would be fantastic!
100% would be cool to see him riding robodinos!
100% endorse this idea!
Yes yes yes!
I absolutely fell in love with Horizon. I loved the first game, pre-ordered the deluxe edition of the second, and loved it even more.
The characters are amazing, the enemies are incredible, the world is beautiful, the music is gorgeous, and the backstory is brilliant.
The world building is the series' best aspect. It's such a deep, well-thought out world. There was clearly a lot of "okay this happened, so what would be the result?" not what a lot of writers do, which is just lots of cool things that logically don't go together.
Ashly Burch is fantastic as Aloy. During the DLC, Aloy gets her firsr ever romantic interest, and I was so excited I actually squealed. As a 31 year old man watching fake people kiss.
And yeah, the underwater Vegas level is amazing. The first section is underwater exploration and light puzzle solving, and it was so visually impressive I spent most of the quest with my jaw dropped, muttering "oh wow" to myself. Also, Morlund is one of my fav NPC's ever, such an adorable nerd.
That quest just made me feel good inside, one of my top 10 gaming experiences for sure.
And of course, the amazing Lance Reddick as Sylens, with his smooth as silk voice. You hear him as Sylens and go "oh you were born for this." RIP to a great man.
But really, do you need more to sell you on it than "redhead woman fights robot dinosaurs with a bow and arrow"?
Zero Dawn was one of those stories really sticks with you. Perfectly paced up to the big reveal of What Zero Dawn really is, totally blew me away. Kotallo (aka best character in Forbidden West) actually made me laugh out loud a few times, don't get that too often. Go play people!
Kotallo's voice actor Noshir Dalal seems really nice too. Just after the game came out, I commented on Twitter about how Kotallo's views on disability and losing a limb were really moving to me, and he responded, we talked about it for a couple of dozen replies.
Kotallo stole FW for me. And that's saying something, because I adore Aloy, Sylens, Seyka, Morlund, and Hekkaro.
That's so cool, It's always nice to hear good things about the people behind your favourite characters. Kotallo is indeed a stand out character amongst a roster of great characters.
Good point! He was a big part of why I enjoyed HFW more than I did HZD
Kotallo was great! He made me laugh, made me think, and he even scared me at one intense moment.
Regalla is also amazing. She might be underutilized but her rage is always palpable. SPOILERS!!!!! Depending on your choices, you get to talk to her & she brings the tension. I felt if I said something wrong she would just quickly drive her spear into me...but not before she sets my car on fire with all my belongings in it.
Luke should do a "Horizon Academy" series in the vein of Ellen's Souls Academy.
The voice acting is great all around especially Ashly Birch and the late great Lance Reddick just wow.
Yea shout-out to Lance Reddick. Just heard him in this Batman audio show in Spotify and he just stands out above everyone else
You hear him as Sylens and just think "oh you were born for this you magnificent bastard."
He's SO good as Sylens. Voice smoother than melted chocolate. Even when Sylens was being snarky and condescending, Lance is just nice to listen to.
@Pro_Butcher_Amateur_Human its just going to be sad(upsetting) if they just get some1 to just do a lance impression for Sylens in the 3rd game
Lance 😢😢
@@Pro_Butcher_Amateur_Human Funnily enough, my favorite of his is when you can hear it in his tone, "Wonderful, I'm going to have to explain to this girl that the world isn't flat." But, then Aloy goes, "I've done observing and such. I know we're on a globe. Just never seen it." And then there's this wonderful stumbling to his tone as he tries to recover his trail of exposition.
Two things hurt Horizon unfairly: Its release schedule, and people playing Assassin's Creed before it. Horizon is a superior experience on many levels and fixes or eschews some of that series' bad habits, such as meaningless side quests, collectibles, inventory economy, level scaling and monetisation. Notably, its setting, characters and narrative are some off the best in the industry right now in the absence of, say, Bioware-style RPGs. It's one of few recent games that has really succeeded in immersing me.
To the early point about lack of engagement on the Horizon videos, I was playing it and didn’t want to accidentally spoil something or colour opinion on a thing that was in it by watching. That said whenever the channel does multi week coverage of a game, I check out for a few weeks. Anyway, Horizon Forbidden West is very good and I’m doing an NG+ run after doing Burning Shores and it’s really funny being super OP in the Daunt.
Do people not understand that Zero Dawn was underrated but they gave it away for free during covid. That's when i found it and played it for the next 6 months trying to max out every thing. After that I un-subed from channels if i even got a inkling that they were going to spoil Forbidden West.
Same i did too but I came back and watched em after
I did the same for both Elden Eing and Horizon. But I played Horizon months after it came out, only after I have finished playing Elden Ring.
As someone who stopped gaming for almost a decade, there was something special about the Horizon games that got me to pick up the controller again. I agree with everything mentioned- the music graphics, mix of biomes, looking cool and the twists to the main story. I just want to add my extra favorite things.
First, the characters and story are some of the brightest gems of this series and the more you are curious about the world and the people in it, the better the rewards. While Guerilla devs borrowed features they liked from other games, they also didn't try to reinvent the wheel in certain places either. Things like side quests aren't unique when stripped down to the bare aspects, but are driven by the characters you meet and their stories surrounding their requests. Quests become about ponderous things like old age, leadership qualities, lost love, and proving one's worth as one becomes an adult. They also take on lesser weighty things like settling a bet also.
The diverse combat was another thing that brought me to this series. FPS got to be very monotonous to me, so it was nice to take apart machines with traps, arrows, bombs, shredder discs, rope tie downs, melee or other hijacked machines. Thankfully there is more than one way to harvest a Ravager, so grinding for parts to me became a way to mix things up with my attacks.
Finally the hidden details in Forbidden West are very fun to discover and easily missed if you are not stopping to drink in the world. Just recently I saw a little detail like an NPC trip while carrying a large chest to something hilarious like the Oseram accountant trying his hand at singing. A lot of love and hard work went into these games and it shines through.
I think one of the biggest strengths about the Horizon series is really the depth of storytelling. I loved how it takes modern concepts and blows it out to apocalyptic levels. If you approach it with thought, there are some massive lessons about religion, knowledge, technology and humanity that is incredibly compelling. That sticks more than the combat, but it does take a certain type of person to appreciate it properly - also you gotta play HZD first to get it all. Some of the best writing is in the datapoints.
I do feel rather sad at a scale conflict that is had by societal change in the story not really being integrated or instantiated by Aloy. They have twist but the scale of threats isnt really meshed with the allies and forces you do stuff with to help actually us as players internally track the stories conflict.
Not only that but it also takes the classic fantasy tropes like "good and evil gods" and "the hero whose unknown parentage turns out to be crucial to their status as the Chosen One" and gives them a fresh spin in a post apocalyptic science fictional setting.
I skip all the cutscenes because I don’t care about it’s story at all.
@@mikeharris6429story and lore is half the gameplay for a lot of games. I can't fathom why people would skip cutscenes while playing the game. When I feel like skipping the dialogue or story of games I bench the game immediately
@@HazeEmryThe characters talk too much for me. Feel like they could articulate it shorter. I end up just reading the subtitle fast and then skipping to the next line because I couldn't be invested in their life story. The world's lore and Aloy's story is cool and interesting but I personally couldn't be bothered by the other characters and each community's story. And I am someone who enjoys story driven RPGs.
There are not enough words to describe my love of the Horizon games. Forbidden West is one of the few games that I have Platinumed. I am eagerly awaiting the next entry in the series.
The casino blew me away like I have not been in a long time, that and when all the lights turn on in the Las Vegas desert.
I love the Horizon games. Given they started with the image of red head fights robot t rex with bow and arrow, they made one the most well thought out sci-fi settings imaginable.
It's also fascinating how they worked backwards with their story. Rather than creating the setting and lore and developing gameplay from there, they instead came with the concept of bow and arrow against robot dinosaurs first, then found a way to make it make sense.
@@MGsubbie I'm fairly sure that's the way a lot of original games are made
@@MGsubbie That was my initial skepticism about the first game, how in the world do they justify that narratively, but sure enough they not only justified it but they made the entire thing sing a make so much sense!
@KayleighBourquin
Edit: The information below is likely incorrect, due to a mistaken memory on my part.
Initial: From what I understand, I think that's how the first Dark Souls game was made - levels first, lore second.
@@SWProductions100 I actually don't think that's the case. There are several different areas and bosses, especially in the late game, that needed to be there for the game to be narratively satisfying, but the aforementioned areas and bosses are bad. Really bad. This implies to me that it's the other way around, they came up with story first, then the levels, but it's possible I'm reading into things too much/incorrectly
I love the world and storytelling of the Horizon games; I think the breadth of concepts to explore, especially in terms of power, knowledge, and ethics, is huge. The characters are cool and well-drawn, and the lore is extensive but not overblown.
Plus, personally I have huge affection for the games because they were there for me when my dad had a stroke at the beginning of the year. Part of it was escapism but also, Aloy's growth into someone who has a steady support system and is finding hope and joy even as everything is crumbling was hugely comforting ❤
When Aloy had her romantic plot in Burning Shores, I was SO happy, I actually squealed when they kissed.
I was so happy that Aloy was letting herself be happy, and that she was starting to move past her hero complex of believing every burden was solely on her shoulders.
That began in FW as she finally starts to accept help, and culminates when at the end the whole group knows about and is starting to plan for NEMESIS.
Her character arc is her becoming a more grounded, happy, emotionally healthy person, and I just think that's beautiful and so wholesome.
And that's not something you see in media often.
Just saw your Ethics of Knowledge in Horizon video. Very good stuff!
I appreciate that Horizon's quest log actually differentiates between Side Quests and Errands - I mostly ignored the latter and focused on the more story driven side quests to level up between main quests and it was nice to know beforehand.
The Horizon games are, for me, the perfect game. I love a game where I can go explore and be rewarded for that exploration, I love a game with a strong narrative led by an interesting protagonist, I love a game with a unique game play loop, I love a game with all the eye candy and ear candy you could ever want.
Horizon has it all. The games are extremely worth your time.
It's litterally not fun to play. There are so many actually enjoyable videogames to play. I dont understand why you'd waste your time with this one
@@aroccoification Everything you days is wrong, subjectively. Also why do you care what some stranger in the internet plays or enjoys? Have you no life of your own, that you seemingly must live vicariously through the lives of others?
@@KayleighBourquin um... living vicariously doesn't apply to this situation and I don't see how it could. I'm saying this to you because there are actually good videogames out there that you should be playing instead of that. I only say that because if people buy and get excited about horizon they're just going to continue to make mediocre games because that's what you're willing to pay for. Being that this game is so popular this mediocrity will be copied by other studios and I'd just rather avoid that. What do you like about this game anyway? It's so generic and stilted
@@aroccoification I have put over 200 hours into Elden Ring, and they were 200 mediocre hours compared to the 400 extremally enjoyable hours I've put into Forbidden West. To each their own I guess, but IMO, Elden Ring is very bland compared to FW.
@@aroccoification your opinion is noted and filed for deletion. Have a nice day
Luke, I love that you've taken a few moments in this video to first think of why Horizon wasn't as popular, and then went forward to listen to Ellen's points, and find reflective counter points that would encourage people to check it out, from a hardcore Elden Ring fan! Love you guys, and love your channel and OXBOX too for this and so many of your conversations!
What I like about the Horizon franchise is that it's actually got some sci-fi.
So many sci-fi settings in games also have horror elements, and so many open world games are medieval power fantasy or mythology, so it's nice to get an alternative.
On top of that, it's also a post-apocalyptic game, but without the grimy, radioactive, cynical take. It's also refreshing to have it be be bright, beautiful and relatively optimistic.
Well, the series reminded me of Assassin's Creed "RPG" series, which also has some sc... wait forget I said anything.
@@adambooth7755yeeessss! It’s why I love a lot of Kim Stanley Robinson’s books. It’s post-apocalyptic in a way that generally shows us adapting. It’s great. And yes, that’s why I love the Horizon series
Thank you Ellen, because people don't know what they are missing out on especially storywise. And they always find excuses to not play good games..... love the series, have played through both of them several times and cannot imagine a game world without this series.
Horizon has became my absolute favourite franchise Sony has released. I love God of War, I love Ratchet & Clank... But Horizon is just incredible, and so unique in it's world design. But being Late to the Horizon series I am still playing through and finishing Zero Dawn. The Open-World stuff, I don't actually mind because sometimes I don't want to play an ultra-hardcore survival open-world like Breath of the Wild or Tears of the Kingdom or a super difficult combat game like Elden Ring. Sometimes an Open-World doesn't have to be super complex and I like that Horizon fits into that niche because it does a lot of the systems really, really well.
I remember back in 2018 spending several weeks in Denver for a work trip hiking in Rocky Mountain National Park on my free time and thinking, “Why did I not finish Zero Dawn?” This is one of very few occasions where the real world made me want to dive into a specific game. I went on to get the platinum and pre-ordered Forbidden West immediately when available. I stopped playing Elden Ring to focus on FW, will I get back to Elden Ring? Probably, but there are so many ways to engage with the Horizon games.
If you are fortunate enough to have been to places in the western USA which feature in the game that part is interesting. Seeing the way different cultures have risen up partly from how they engage with the relics of the past is unique . Many of the characters are engaging. The combat is fun, but you can avoid many of the open world encounters if you want.
As much as the games “ubisoftified” they do many of the things better (if I’m running around collecting things they might as well be the black boxes playing the last moments of people who died a thousand years earlier), and some things about the same/worse (did not need dozens of terribly similar bandit camps). Are the games perfect no, but not every game can be Tetris. The Horizon games feel like some of the best in the genre.
Seeing how they interpret areas of America hundreds of years in the future is one of the best parts of the games! I really hope we get to see the remnants of Hawaii and the Quen empire in game 3?! Some of the best world building in gaming right now!
About the bandit camps (I assume you mean the rebel outposts in HFW) - Are they similar in gameplay? Sure.
But I would like to encourage you to take another look at them because I would argue that they are part of the invironmental storytelling. In three of them Aloy comments on how they overlook Plainsong, Thornmarsh and the valley below the Bulwark respectively allowing Regalla to keep tabs on what happens in these capitals.
Following Kotallo to the Bulwark Aloy remarks on how Tekotteh will be surrounded by the time he finally starts acting against the rebels and seeing how 2 of the 3 paths into the valley lead past a rebel outpost Aloy is absolutely right. The rebels are probably close to starting a siege.
The outpost north of Aloys base blocks the only known path between the Tenakth clan lands and the fields of Plainsong. Effectively cutting contact between those to tribes.
And than there is Falls Edge. Surrounded by three outposts (one in a side quest, not marked on the map) and a larger camp. You could say it is already under siege and the side quest has Aloy step in and prevent the rebels from conquering the settlement outright. It is stated that conquering it would have ment cutting contact between the Grove and Thornmarsh aka Chief Hekarro and his most loyal clan.
Just to give some examples.
In HFW we explore a region which is engaged in bloody civil war. The camps and outposts help sell this fact. As do the rebel ambushes Aloy might end up in or the fights between rebels and either Tenakth or Utaru she might encounter in the wilds. I for one felt some satisfaction taking them out one by one as it ment weakening Regalla grip on the land.
Man, Ellen was almost as distraught at this as she was when she implores you to try out Kingdoms of Amalur. Which, after Ellen's passion and watching my housemate play, is near the top of my pile of shame.
And love a pun with some depth to it.
KoA is great TBH
The thing that is, above all, so important and good and really hooks you in horizon forbidden west is that it can feel REAL. There were so many times that I thought, man, this is a real person and they have likes and dislikes and whole lives they live. You want to be invested in what they're doing, and help them because these stories feel real.
The story is the real draw for this series. I remember sitting down at the very beginning of the first game, when the npcs are telling the village a story in game. I just had Aloy sit and listen. I rarely engage games in that way
That's the best thing Aloy does in the game. I like the NPCs a lot more than the main character. I like the games a lot, but for some reason (chattiness?) Aloy rubs me the wrong way.
It's the other way round for me. I couldn't get invested into the story especially so the story of each community and characters. The only story I cared about was Aloy's and the world's lore. It was the combat mechanics and the robot dinosaurs that hooked me.
And in Forbidden West, I feel like there was way too much dialogue I end up just reading the subtitle fast and skipping dialogues because the characters took a long winded way of getting to the point.
As a gamer who is more interested in heavily story-driven games, I gotta say that Horizon is one of the few open world games I actually like, and I don't just like it, I LOVE it. You can tell how much love and care Guerilla put into making these games cos the game lore is extensive, so much so that theres even a RUclips channel dedicated to JUST explain Horizon lore. The characters and their personalities, the tribes and their diff cultures, the world and its history, there simply so much detail that it feels very real.
Horizon's Marketing team. "So guys you know how we released Zero Dawn right next to Breath of the Wild? Well this time we are doing it with Elden Ring!" Also I'm just waiting for the PC version so I can check it out
Horizon got that terrible release date curse, and if I was a gambling man I'd bet a third one would be released right before elder Scrolls six hahaha
Forbidden West was going to release months after Elden Ring, but then Elden Ring got delayed next to them and made the curse happen again.
To be honest, the supposed unfortunate dueling release dates for Horizon and other games seems quite overblown to me.
Especially since they didn't flop upon release.
"Then we're going to complain about how Elden Ring got better reviews like immature little babies."
Ok I was convinced to give Kingdoms of Amalour a go after Ellen describing her love for it and it kicked so much arse. Now I'll give HFW a go after I've done TotK, good job guys
If you haven't played Zero Dawn, start there. Horizon is a story/worldbuilding rich setting and skipping the exposition would be detrimental to the experience.
Oh ok thanks, I want the full experience so I'll start there
Ellen looks very similar to Aloy in that thumbnail
I was playing Horizon Zero Dawn yesterday evening (I just got it a few days ago) and there was this close up of Aloy that had me thinking of Ellen. There’s something in their faces that looks similar to me.
Wrapping your head around the sheer scale of the apocalypse in the Horizon games is one of the most genuinely affecting moments in modern gaming. The entire biosphere died and had to be jump started by a crazy experimental hail mary *after* every living human on the planet had been converted into biomass for rogue AI. It's a sci-fi masterpiece.
Exactly. But people would have think about stuff an use there imagination too fully get the Horizon series.
After the first couple of trailers, I remember thinking "I hope we get to explore some of the old-world stuff and find out what happened there" - and boy did they deliver on that! One of my favourite bits of the first game (that I missed in Forbidden West) was the secondary narrative of what happened during the Faro plague, told through recordings/audio logs/etc. That and Bashir's "Apocashitstorm Tour".
Totally agree. I loath no video game character so much as Ted Faro, which is attributed to the excellent story telling and world building.
Yeah, I guess I just wish the efforts to fix things or improve them into a new state were more holistic on the human end in Forbidden West. The ai interactions feel a bit hit and miss considering the indicators we get from the first.
@travislyonsgary I'm not sure I understand. Do you have an example?
This was the motivation I needed to start up Forbidden West again, I left it for a couple of months but time to go back!
Especially since even though I feel like I'm reasonably far into the game I know there are so many cool places I haven't seen yet
I'm feeling exactly the same, but need to finish Jedi Survivor first. Starting and not finishing too many games here haha. FW is definitely what I'll be going back to next though!
Don’t bother. Just play Elden Ring it’s a better game.
I, too, needed motivation to get back into it a few months back and I’m so glad I did. I glommed onto it almost immediately and it was like a new game.
@@mikeharris6429 Lol yes the excellent from software "read the item description if you want the story" games
I've not played Forbidden West, but I have played Zero Dawn and it had such a great narrative that I completely ignored everything else in the game in order to see the story through until the end, which isn't something I normally do in open world games
Zero Dawn is one of the best games ever made. Forbidden West is kinda shit
If you get the chance, definitely play forbidden west, it just continues the greatness from hzd!
@@divinecomedy7311 this ^^
“And I still suffered, what a burden for me to carry” 😂
I admit that I had some trouble with the first game, I tried it a few times but it just wouldn't stick. I am so glad that I decided to give it another shot and to play through the slow beginning of the first one and since then it's been one of my favorite game series ever. The storytelling is just amazing and it feels like something new and refreshing. Can't wait for a third game.
great discussion here, i did enjoy seeing the videos that came about forbidden west on the channel but the time of release against Elden Ring very much worked against this game so much.
part of me can't help but wonder if availability is part an issue, if you're an exclusive that doesn't hit the mark where do you have to go. from what i can tell this game isn't even on pc yet which is easily one step that game could take to get into the hands of more people
I like that its not as hard as elden ring, i dont have time in my life to play a game that demands so much time consuming exploring and dying a lot, Horizon has a vey paceable gameplay that works for me and as a biologist I really really like the themes of the games and understanding how the machines develop and why they are needed and the science isn't too out of reality which I appreciate. I also really liked the board game they added, which is weird cause i normally hate the mini games in rpgs. Moving around in Horizon Forbidden west is the most fun I've had in a game. My only downside to HFW is that I wish they had focused more on developing Aloy's character and her old companions as much as they put that effort into the new characters, there felt like there were a couple of hollow points with the big flashy storyline whereas the quests focusing on randos you come across are really well done.
We should have another video where Luke and Ellen each play the other's game, and then we have another debrief where they discuss which is better.
I would absolutely watch an Ellen play through series of Horizon. Stray was amazing as was Black Flag.
I have actually been looking forward to playing this game. But I don't feel the need to own a PS5 at the price it is currently, especially with a gaming PC. I'm just waiting for it to come to PC at this point.
You can play it on ps4
That will probably be next year.
I was thinking about this recently that games like Horizon should offer a "no side quests required mode" for people to just go straight to the main parts if they want. Just more xp and gear from main story beats that allow people to chase the story without having to seek too many berries. That said, I basically did that so I could play Elden ring and it just left me super underlevelled for the last boss with no save to go back to. I won eventually because spears are nuts.
Horizon ZD and FW are phenomenal games. What always astonished me was how they managed to justify the world and why there are robotic dinosaur’s roaming around and they absolutely do justify it with its story which is phenomenal. How our world is ruined by technology and pertinently AI and what the solution is and how it leads to this world in the games. My jaw hit the floor when I found out what had happened and like Aloy I wanted to know more. I’ll just draw attention to something was missed in this video and that’s the Cauldron’s which are totally different from anything else in the game. These are huge underground vaults with environmental puzzles and moving mechanical contraptions. The idea is to get to the core and shut it down but it’s usually guarded by a boss fight which is very tough and although these Cauldrons are optional the result is you get to unlock creatures for overriding. So it’s well worth it. Plus they are stunning to get through. And as you’ll find out later in the game why they exist.
I never found the collectibles in the first game very intrusive because they are mainly datapoints which build the past world. You may not find all of them and a lot you’ll find as part of the story but they are intriguing instead of “Oh, is that it?”
I have to agree with Ellen on the Tallnecks. These aren’t just towers to climb to reveal more of the maps secrets but they are a challenge in themselves as to how to jump on to them before you even climb them. In some cases you’ll have enemies to get rid of before you can. In others there’s a convoluted rock climb before you can even get to a point you can jump on. They are environmental puzzles in themselves. There’s one in FW that is impossible until later on in the game.
I will say it’s advisable to finish the first games story before going on to FW otherwise you won’t have a clue what the main story is. GAIA and her subordinates, Hades? Yeah exactly.
One thing I found so wonderful is how unique the creatures are. While some resemble domestic animal fauna there are some terrifying dinosaur types not least the Thunderjaw with its many weapons of attack. Trying to figure out the best way to take these down is a challenge in itself. Most are optional. Some are part of the plot. But the joy of shooting off parts of these enemies and then using their weapons on them is well, joyful. Pick up that disc launcher or laser cannon and see how he likes it.
Ellen is absolutely right, this is a masterpiece open world game with linear stories. Side quests optional, collectibles optional. Although I wouldn’t just try to do the story because you are going to need to level up to tackle the later challenges.
If you’ve not played either and have PS+ you can play them both. And trust me when I say if you’ve not played them yet, prepare to have your mind blown. These games are 10/10 for me.
Ellen you out of all the video game journalists I follow speak the most to the "quiet dozens" of us who love story telling and environment in ways that are so balanced but needs a bit more mental and time investment! I agree with you that Stray was last year's game of the year, that Horizon's story is just so amazing (still waiting for Forbidden West to come to PC) and I know that there are more than a few dozens of us who follow this channel to hear you speak to us, so keep speaking for us! (Also I look forward to playing Kingdoms of Amalur once the time opens up!)
The story and characters of Horizon is why I love these games. The world is beautiful and all of the cultures are cool and interesting.
I love the Horizon games. I realized when I was finishing Burning Shores that they scratch the same itch as the Mass Effect Trilogy for me. If they can stick the landing on the third game, it will make this one of the best trilogies in gaming. The games also have some of the best motion capture out there. It's enough that I have some issues with other games (looking at you AC Valhalla) because the character animations just don't rise to the same level.
The Horizon series is what got me into gaming after growing up in a household with no gaming systems. The world and mechanics are so rich and the story is honestly unparalleled. It deserves so much more love and attention.
12:10 What Luke is talking about is exactly what my dad and I struggle with "The Usual Suspects." If someone doesn't know the twists, you want them to watch without knowing and it's hard to just say, "It's a movie that starts with 5 guys in a police lineup."
I picked up HZD because the commercials looked so cool, but the stories of the games have been amazing and it's hard to not spoil them for others when telling them to play the games.
Played the first one for about 4 hours and never felt compelled to pick it back up. I got it for free from PS+ so I didn't have that anxiety that I spent 60$+ on a game so I need to sink x amount of hours into it to at least get my money's worth.
Also, the last game Ellen passionately advocated for was Kingdoms of Amalur and I picked it up because of her recommendation. I really didn't care for that one so I'm assuming that we just have different preferences in games. 🤔
HZD does the hero's journey really well - with a GREAT combat system. I LOVED skyrim's shadow assassin builds, and this is 100% that with a utopia/dystopia with differrent regions/cultures. It reminded me of a planet called treason by Orson Scott Card. I loved it so much!
Ubisoftification 🤣 even Ubisoft is sick of making you climb towers. In far cry 5 you climb one once and the guy on your radio say "don't worry. I won't make you climb anymore of them."
You don't even have to "climb towers" in Forbidden West. Climbing the Tall necks is a shortcut but you can absolutely explore on foot.
One of the early Tall necks can't even be climbed before the last 10% of the game's storyline.
The reason you're climbing them in HFW has more to do with how interesting getting there is anyway. Some of them are almost mini quests of their own.
And they set a chunk of AC Valhalla in the Fens. THE FENS. The nearest hill is halfway across the country.
Ellen, just wanted you to know, your Horizon videos are why I bought Horizon zero dawn and Forbidden west. Never thought I would like a game with jumping puzzles, but ended up loving both games. Thanks for broadening my "Horizon."
I love that we're talking about this, because I played the HELL out of Forbidden West and I loved it. I even loved it despite having to play it on the PS4, for which it is not optimised in the slightest. It's brilliant, and fixes like 95% of the (very small amount of) flaws from the first game - the character animations were an endless delight to watch, the sidequests were well-written and engaging, the combat was deeper (too deep, arguably), and there were a bunch of quality of life improvements that were always delicious. God I love this series - maybe the final game WON'T release at the same time as a AAA titan.
That sidequest point bears going into a little more perhaps - the thing that HFW in particular does really well is introduce a compelling character moment to its fetch-quests etc. Rather than just "I need this thing, go get the thing and come back, I'll give you XP and loot", it's "my best friend has gone missing, I'm really worried about them but can't do anything about it, you seem super competent, if you go and find out what happened to them then I can give you XP and loot as compensation". It's hard to describe in a way that fully captures the difference it makes, but when I played the game I found basically every fetch quest satisfying from a narrative standpoint. GG have put a huge amount of effort into the writing and characterisation for the game, and it really pays off IMO
As a fan of the National Parks it was cool exploring them as they might look in the future. Arches, Yellowstone, Grand Teton,Zion, redwoods, Yosemite etc. Standing on Old Faithful as it erupts was a hoot. Finding a memo on how they figured a way to lower the acid levels in Grand Prismatic so you could swim in it etc
I mean if Burning Shores didn't do too well, that's at least partially because it's only for PS5 though. My friend played HFW on PS4 and absolutely would have played the DLC, had it been possible. I'd bet that she's not the only one who doesn't own a PS5 and isn't willing or able to buy one for that.
One thing I don’t see mentioned is the beauty and variety of the landscapes. This is what I always want in an open works game, but so rarely get: jungle, desert, forest, mountains, tropics, snow… It has it all, and it’s all so freaking gorgeous. I find myself just marveling at details of the plants.
Horizon is such an underrated series and its truly a shame that it dosent get as much love as it deserves. And honestly I liked it WAY more then elden ring (mostly because of the fact that it actually had a story and that I actually get to help the npcs to achive happy endings instead of seeing them suffer terrible fates everytime I finish their quests).
Horizon also got a quest log, so you actually know what to do and how far you are in the story.
I finished playing Forbidden West before starting Elden Ring and enjoyed them both, but they're quiiiiite different types of games.
I don't think it's fair to call Horizon an "underrated" series. The only problem with the series (well, the main problem) is that they keep releasing games right around other big releases. ZD came out a week before BotW, FW came out a week before Elden Ring, and then Burning Shores came out a month before TotK.
If they waited like two months on each of their games they'd have sold way better. They just keep trying to push massive open worlds on people who don't have time for it.
@@weneedaladder8384 One thing that I feel many people forget is that both Elden Ring and Tears of the Kingdom (and Breath of the Wild, if I recall correctly) were delayed, so it's not like the Guerilla decided to launch close to these titles. It's the other way around. As far as I know, Sony does not seem delay their first party titles to avoid competition, only for technical and quality issues. And release windows are always busy these days.
This format, of you two having a long-form discussion of something you are passionate about, is really great 😄
Completed the game, loved it. I don't really get the Souls games. Not for me.
I find Souls games incredibly slow and boring. Stiff combat, barely any story, and they're just grey, grey and more grey.
@@Tyr_Magnus you’ve obviously not even seen Elden Ring.
@@Tyr_Magnus probably should get your eyesight checked for color blindness.
@@gilbert8162 oh, the Souls stans are butthurt. It's so easy. Y'all are like a cult sometimes. 😂
@@mikeharris6429 😂
Thinking about Horizon Zero Dawn, I remember getting to the place where I started thinking, "Okay, this is just a cool hunting game," when Aloy came to the first Cauldron, and the whole story took that really stepped into the mystery of who Aloy was, and what had really happened/was really happening to Earth, that they'd hinted at from the very beginning.
I've been hooked on Horizon and Aloy's journey ever since, to the point where I've even hesitated to play the Burning Shores DLC, because I know it will be a horribly long time before Horizon 3 drops.
I’ve been debating whether my next big game should be Horizon Forbidden West or Tears of the Kingdom, this video convinced me to finally install my copy of Horizon. Mission accomplished for at least one viewer, Ellen!
I loved Breath of the Wild, and I loved Zero Dawn. And then came Forbidden West and then DLC The Burning Shores. I've done absolutely everything there is to do in all 3 games, I've got 100% completion on all of them. Then comes Tears of the Kingdom. My family got TOTK, and while I haven't yet jumped on that game yet myself, I've been watching my family play it, and honestly, TOTK is not really jumping out at me, I'm not finding any interest in playing it at all. I'd much rather get lost in the world of Horizon. Currently on my 3rd playthrough of FW. TOTK just seems like a rehash or reimagining of BOTW to me. It literally feels like the same game with added crafting/building mechanics.
@@brycewilson7805don't forget to mention the corny dialogue and noises the characters in tears of the Kingdom make, very little to no acting
I really like the occasional "new/retro" format like with this video, Luke playing TotK blind, and talking about Dredge and the gameplay loop. The shenanigans are fun and hilarious, but in these videos you can tell they still really love gaming
I love these chatty videos! My partner ADORED Zero Dawn but struggled with Forbidden West for the reasons Luke gives. Still a gorgeous game and I love Ellen's enthusiasm for it!
I've not played Forbidden West yet (i was on PS4 waiting for the DLC, then it turned out it was PS5 exclusive and now idk what im doing with that) but i can say i broadly agree with what Ellen's saying, at least in Zero Dawn.
She loved the story and so did I, but I get that many people might not get too much of a kick out of the tropes the game uses. Impending apocalypse, evil capitalist, group of scientists, et cetera, you know? I liked it, but it's fine that others dont.
I think the main cool thing is that while fundamentally it does the "many things on the map, enemy bases, gameplay challenges, climb the tower" things that games like Farcry and Assassin's Creed did repeatedly, it does them all with a little bit of effort to be new and exciting. Sure, taking out a base was fine but now the base is a cauldron with a wholly different and, for a first-time player, very striking visually and atmospherically when it's been so lush before. Ive climbed dozens of towers to open a map but this time, I'm sneaking through an enemy encampment to reach a ledge to jump on a giant dinosaur and I'm climbing it while under fire.
Even the hunting challenges, which i immediately dismissed as Just Cause 4 type gameplay padding, i found would teach me new and more varied ways to play. I had more fun playing after i did those challenges because i learned more ways to take out machines.
So yeah, its fun. Cant wait to play Forbidden West, ill skip the collectibles tho lmao.
The problem with this whole discussion is that, at some level, we assume a game doesn't exist outside their launch window. That make sense for people in the industry but for a "normal" gamer it should be irrelevant. I rarely play things when they come out save a few exceptions. So I completed zero dawn in 2018 and 100% forbidden west a few months ago. I'm interested in the DLC but that'd have to wait a few months
That is kind of dismissive on how "normal" gamers actually pay attention to things. We get hyped during a games initial marketing and release and that is when you get the most people roped into purchasing the game and such. Then you get the other gamers that don't pay attention to marketing which would be the minority that stumble upon the games outside their launch window. Many great games go unnoticed and under-appreciated due to being launched at the same time as another popular game. They tend to get cult followings years later.
If you mean "normal gamer" in the sense that they only casually (occasionally) play whichever games they like the look of, even if they're older, then yeah.
But a good amount of gamers will play anything that's new and advertised. Especially considering each person only has so much money to spend on entertainment, it's difficult to get noticed if headline games come out at the same time.
Or if there's a drought in their favourite genre.
I'm feeling bad now that I didn't watch Ellen's Forbidden West videos. I didn't watch them because I was busy making my way slowly through the game.
If it makes you feel better, Ellen, you're the one who convinced me to give the first game a chance. And it's now my favorite game series. To date, HFW remains the only game I've pre-ordered.
I kind of want to play it, but exclusivity is stopping me from doing so.
Yeah. That kind of thing is good for the platform but not great for a game.
You’re not missing anything by not playing it.
i hadn't played video games since i was a child until i watched this channel a few years ago and bought a switch and it opened the door to SO many games and good experiences!!!! and now the only games i have ever platinumed are the horizon games. i love them SO much, people ignoring them is SUCH a tragic thing - they are such good, solid sci-fi stories. clever, incredible story telling that make you feel SO smart and keep you fascinated. horizon is for someone who WANTS to really immerse themselves in some of the best science fiction in years, and has patience for thoughtful pacing and loves investing in characters. the game play is SO fun and smooth and the combat makes you feel so strong and quick and clever!!! god, i love these games. thank you ellen!!!
I feel you Ellen. I doubt it helps but both times I played the horizon games when they came out
Meaning I played Horizon Zero Dawn while everyone played Breath of the Wild
and I played Forbidden West while everyone played Elden Ring
I bounced off last year but picked it up last month when Burning Shores came out. Just forget about upgrades and having the “right” weapons and enjoy the amazing gameplay…particularly loved the design of the cauldrons…and the story of DLC was awesome 🤩
Ellen play Elden Ring and then still try to sell us on Horizon.
One of my major problems with the first Horizon game from what I saw was all these dialogue cutscene that gives you all the answers to forgotten ancient history. That just sinks my interest.
One reason I love Elden Ring is that we have common conception (what people generally believe), facts of the world (self evidently true things), and revealed truths. And we get enough of all of these that we can make our own model of what we think happened. What everything means.
I think it's a major flaw in Horizon that they just... give you all the answers.
I have other reasons that cause me to overlook it but that's the major one. I dont want to be given all the answers. I want to have a bulletin board with notes pinned to it and they have esoteric lines of string connecting them all together.
I'm right there with you Ellen. I only wish the Forbidden West DLC wasn't a PS5 exclusive, since the game was available (and I played it on) PS4. ...or better yet put it on Xbox as well. I'm so tired of console exclusivity, but that's another topic altogether.
if the timing of HZD's PC release is anything to go on, I'll only have to wait 2 more years to play HFW :D
Got to say - I've had HFW on my to-play list for a while, and I think I'll pick it up later this month. Ellen, your clear passion for it has got me very interested.
It's probably on sale right now with Sony's Days of Play sale. It's also included in the middle tier of PS Plus.
I’m so envious of the journey you are about to take! The first time discovery of the stuff in Forbidden West is the best! SO GOOD!
Go for it!!
As part of the PC gaming elite. Getting Sony games at all is a treat.
Horizon Zero Dawn has an amazing storyline and to me, quite possibly the best video game intro / tutorial I have played.
ELLEN I WATCHED ALL YOUR HORIZON VIDEOS THEY WERE AWESOME. Honestly so glad to see a video like this becauce both horizon games are solidly in my top 5 of all time, and I felt like so many people just skipped over them. They really outline for me the power video games have as a story telling medium. HFW can defo be mainlined in 40 hours but I had a great 120 hour playthrough (plus the DLC is FANTASTIC). Love love love.
The thing that really kept me playing HZD was the story, mostly the gradual reveal of what happened in the past. The thing that has stopped me picking up HFW so far is people saying it’s story is no where near as good.
I don't think that's the case. The story does take some time to pick up but once it gets rolling, it's pretty fantastic. I also think the side quests are, on balance, better here than in the first one.
I liked story of HZD more than the HFW. Have You tried to play HZD more than once? If You still enjoyed it even without the element of mystery/feeling of uncovering a great, forgotten story, then HFW will be still enjoyable as hell. It's better mechanically, a bit worse i terms of story, but still good IMO. Defenetily better than just replaying the HZD 😊
The story suffered a little from John Gonzales leaving Guerrilla, but it’s still awesome.
I wouldn't say the story is less good than HZD. It's more a "second in a trilogy" issue.
HFW can't have as much discovery as HZD and can't fully resolve to leave place for the third chapter.
Beyond that it is full of its own jaw dropping moments.
Oh it’s good. Ever wanted to know what happened to the other subordinates, now you’ll find out? Plus the story also heavily features Far Zenith which is teased in datapoints found throughout ZD. There’s still jaw dropping moments and shocks and loads of new machines, and the environments are as varied as the first. If you like ZD you’ll like FW
YES! I love that people are still talking about Horizon (I know the DLC just came out but you know, TotK). It is my absolutely favorite game series of all time and its gonna be hard for another game to top it.
Thank you Ellen.
Fun fact that i just fineshed Forbidden West last week. Horizon, actually, have many quality of live features. My favorites are that NPCs moving with same speed as you and that you can create a quest to find materials that you need for buying or upgrading somthing.
Thank you for this. I fell off the second game for exactly the same reason Luke did. Elden Ring came out. But I saw a streamer get into the game for the first time, and it inspired me to go back into it. And I’m glad I did. It’s so good. Ellen said it best, too, when she said it’s a linear story in an open world game.
Horizon series is one of them games that has a wonderful story but there is some game mechanics that were tedious...not ubisoft tedious though 😂 really struggling to finish any of there games lately.
Agreed, I love the games but there are definitely things that hinder it at times, but I will stand by and fight the assertion that it’s even remotely close to being as bad as Ubisoft games!
Could not agree more. HFW is a brilliant amalgam of fun world exploration and storytelling in which you are intrinsic to the tale, not merely finding lore. And it's unrelentingly beautiful and the characters are three-dimensional and the plot takes engaging, unexpected turns. It's so rich.
I admit I haven't actually played Forbidden West yet, but I absolutely will soon. Zero Dawn was easily one of my favourite games of the last decade, and I have FW on my PS5's hard drive, along with the DLC, so it's next on my list. ... Well, Diablo IV and Street Fighter VI just came out and FFXVI is my most anticipated game since, well, since the last FFXIV expansion, so okay, I may not get to FW for a little while. But I will! At some point.
I’ve only recently played and complete HZD and I think it’s a great example of how to do the open world thing really well.
I feel like it did what Ubisoft attempted to do with the last three Assassin’s Creed games by trying to copy The Witcher 3, but where Ubisoft got it wrong Guerrilla Games got it very right.
Nothing felt like a chore in HZD. I wanted to complete the caldrons, I wanted to do side quests, I wanted to upgrade my gear, I wanted go after more XP to level up and tackle harder parts of the map, but not once did I feel like doing any of this was a forced way of padding out the game.
I think people are burnt out on open world games and haven’t given either ZD or FW a real chance.
I love, love love HZD, and am very excited to play forbidden west. That said, I think the overshadowing had a lot to do with limited availability as well. Elden ring is playable on all consoles and computers, and playing horizon still requires a $400 metal box
Yeah, I played the first one on pc because I don't have a playstation.. And I'm waiting for the second one to be out on pc before I can play it.
I felt this exact way about Mad Max (great game).
It came out within a few months of The Witcher 3, and ON THE SAME DAY as MGS:V 🙈
Deserved better.
Mad Max was such a good time. No one did car combat and desertic world as well as them. Their crunchy version or Arkham combat was also very satisfying.
Mad Max was better than it had any right to be. I absolutely loved that game!
Zero Dawn was one of my favorite games ever, I miss good Sci-Fi in the Gaming and Movie world anyway because there is so much fresh stuff storywise that can be done in that setting, so tbh I haven't gotten around it but Forbidden West + DLC is a must for me.
As a huge fan of the game and the series, I didn’t think it was overlooked. I bought it at launch and played the hell out of it. Same with the Burning Shores DLC, bought that immediately and played it through completely. It’s probably my favourite game. Anyone who overlooked it is missing out.
THANK YOU ELLEN! 💜Thank you for articulating exactly what I feel about this game and people who ignore or hate it (mainly because they barely played past the Embrace, *cough, Ian Higton, cough*)
I avoided all videos on HFW at the time for fear of spoilers (even watching spoiler-free ones make the algorithm bring up ones with spoiler titles ☹) , I'm going to watch yours
I think the biggest issue with this series and by extension, the ubisoft games is the way they tell their naratives. There is a disconnect between the moment to moment gameplay and progression systems to the story and characters.
In the Horizon games, your character is the only character doing the things in the world she does. She is the only one levelling up. She is the only one crafting her equipment. She is the only one climbing to the points of the tall neck. I understand this was explained with alloy having the focus, but the by design you never really feel apart of the world.
The second thing that hurts this series for Horizon, is the structure of the quests. The tried and true get quest from npc, then fgo to area, kill some things, gather some things/save some people by speaking with them after the baddies are dead. Elden Ring and Zelda change that formula by send you in a direction and along the path you may get invoived with another quest that dynamically pops up. The quest themselves are not a straight line, the story branches on your actions and non actions.
I will agree with Ellen on this point, the Horizon games do tell a pretty great sci fi story. The games are graphically beautiful. The majority of the voice acing is great. The music is excellent. The dynos are amazing! I love the amount of detail they have on their respective exo skeletal tech bodies. But the way they deliver the story puts me to sleep. I honestly feels like i am listing to a monotone dude explaining to laws of gravity to me. They need to re-structure how they tell their story by integrating more of the gameplay to it and remove the cut scenes altogether.
Oof first game came out same time as breath of the wild, second game came out same time as elden ring and then the dlc at the same time as tears of the kingdom. Bad timing that
I've wanted to play Forbidden West, and having put aside the PS4 for a Series S and a Steam Deck/PC, I just really want Sony to put it on Steam. I think giving it to that audience, much like Zero Dawn, will help the case MASSIVELY
Hey, I watched all your Horizon videos Ellen. Oh wait, that last VR one I listened to it for 10 minutes and then saw an Elden Ring video and started watching that and never came back. My apologies, here's a cat. 🐈
I was surprised by Luke's assessment of Horizon, in the sense that it has "outdated" features. It felt like that was the media's take on the game. I've definitely read that viewpoint in articles, but the reality when I've talked to folks that have played the game, is that most of them are as enthusiastic about Horizon as Ellen in this video.
Regardless, this is why I love these two, we get such different (and great) perspectives!
I deeply appreciated all of Ellen's Horizon videos and I'm bummed that there wasn't more appetite for them during the release window. Guerrilla built an incredible world filled with satisfying combat encounters, interesting characters and varied cultures, and I'm so glad that they have Ellen as an advocate for their series!
I mean, the games are so good that they are making a live action TV show based on the story, and after going through both these games, yes, all the yes. People need to see this story, even the non-gamers. It's so magnificent.
I don’t agree that is how people feel about the horizon games actually. I’ve never heard that and I really loved the first game. Maybe that is more in the game journalism circles, but it was news to me
I literally just bought Zero Dawn for the first time so this is impeccably timed - excited to get into it!
I've found both Horizon games infinitely addictive. The gameplay is just so perfect in both, it makes even fighting the most challenging of bosses a pleasure, and the story kept me guessing. It was addictive on both those tiers and now I wait for the third game anxiously.
I really want to play it. Please bring it to PC!!!!!
Ellen, you have convinced me to jump back in, i made it a decent amount in and i don’t want to start over…so i gotta struggle and re-learn the buttons and mechanics…but it sounds worth it. I loved the 1st one
Two things Ellen didn’t mention that Horizon has but Elden Ring doesn’t
A) Story Mode
B) Lance Reddick