Should Pastors Concealed Carry?
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- Опубликовано: 12 апр 2023
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I am trained in firearms(military and law enforcement). I also Pastor and I carry every service. I am the only one that is facing the back door. As shepherds we should do our part to protect the flock, from spiritual as well as physical threats
Our elders have suggested keeping a carbine near the pulpit for my use for this very purpose.
God bless you, Sir! I would be honored to have a pastor that cared for me that much.
not sure who's going to save us at our orthodox church where everyone is facing east... maybe we need to booby trap the entrance
Personally I feel much better in a church where everyone is armed. I'm comforted by open carry too. It's the places arms aren't allowed that I won't go.
All for responsible firearm ownership and usage.
Preach that
I’m in a PCA church and the ruling and teaching elders have made arrangements for people in the church who have background in law enforcement and others who are known to be good marksmen, to carry. Also, we have started locking some of the doors to minimize the number of entries to the building. The entries that remain open are watched. I Feel much better knowing that these measures have been put in place. I think these are reasonable measures with minimal impact.
Accidental discharge while properly carrying doesn't happen.
Pacifist notions are useful when you are a single man on the mission field. When you are in charge of the souls and bodies of women & children, they are harmful.
Knowing most of my elders (in pca churches) were armed made me feel more secure bringing my family into church. I'll go to jail for a malicious defensive shoot if it means the children near me get to live a full life.
I agree. There does seem to be a rise in this militant queer ideology.
Very true. That is why I use the term negligent discharge.
@@MonerBilly We are in a full blown revolution. And most people, even Christians, seem to be asleep.
Thank you for discussing this, Pastor.
One thing I want to add to folks' considerations - it would be prudent to get formal training on firearms handling if you intend to carry. How to handle your firearm safely, how to carry safely, de-escalation of threatening situations, mindset while carrying, and last but not least judicious and accurate fire are all critical elements of carrying a firearm.
If you choose to carry a firearm, you are adding huge responsibility for any situation you are in, and you need to think through these things if you intend to carry. I don't mean that you need to be the wild-west sheriff in any situation, I mean you need to know and understand just how many inappropriate situations there are for you to use or threaten deadly force, and the resulting responsibility you have to be calm, humble, and responsible so that you can de-escalate most situation that you could find yourself in.
Fact
I was going to comment and then saw this one first, which said everything I was going to say. Yes by all means carry, but especially if carrying at church, you need to be trained. A crowded large room full of innocent people (who would probably be panicking) is a nightmare scenario for exercising lawful justified self defense. It requires responsible choices that includes training, as well as the right choices of firearms and ammunition. It would be tragic to successfully engage and take down the bad guy, only to have bullets go through him or the wall behind him, where innocent people could be.
Very well said!
I go to a tiny church in the appalachian mountains. We have about 20-30 members and over half carry, even some of us women.
Wow! I honestly can't imagine such a thing. I am in Chicago, where only criminals are allowed to have guns. (Although I think some of the laws recently changed. I've been dealing with a family health situation that has taken up all my time/energy for years now, so I haven't kept up with it. I should.) It's ridiculous how we have little "no guns" stickers on buildings, especially downtown. When I first started seeing them, I truly thought it was a joke! What sane person thinks a criminal intent on harm is going to see that sticker and think, "Oh. I can't go in there." The stupidity of the leaders of this miserable city boggles the mind.
If one is going to carry concealed…advanced training is essential. Getting the CCW permit does not equip you to fire a weapon in a crowded room. That takes much more training. As a pastor I used to carry in church but found so often people would come up behind me and give me a side hug… and inadvertently put their hand on my gun. Well balanced talk on a difficult subject. Thanks
Shoulder rig. Ankle carry. Urban carry g 2 deep concealment holster.
David had his sling. Feed the sheep, shoot the wolves is a common metaphor for confronting false teachers but given the state of culture it may become more and more applicable in a literal sense.
We don't want to end a human life but sometimes it is necessary.
Always carry everywhere.
Almost, but it is ABC - Always Be Carrying !! :)
Active Self Protection and Active Self Protection Extra by John Correia and friends are the best resources on the RUclips (and possibly the internet?) for self defense/conceal carry. On the main channel, he breaks down real life self defense encounters. On the extra channel, he goes into the legal, moral, practical aspects of self defense.
He is a pastor btw in arizona.
John is awesome
Amen. Love ASP
EVERYONE comfortable to do so should!
You should design a, "Marry a Man Who Reads His Bible", shirt! We ladies need some help as well. :)
If anyone wants further education on this matter. they should read anything by Massad Ayoob.
Yes! Why not? The shepherd should guard his flock.
Excellent presentation, thank you.
Great video. I agree it is a difficult dilemma, this needs to be prayed about, talked about and acted upon. Fail to plan and you automatically plan to fail… and be unprotected.
Hi Pastor, I love your channel and videos, this one is a rare swing and a miss. Don't overthink it: Weigh the costs and benefits, and legally carry when and if you choose, and don't infringe on the right of others to carry if they choose to legally carry.
My personal opinion is an absolute yes. As long as you are willing to go through the proper training and be responsible. My opinion is that it is righteous to immediately stop a threat to protect others, especially the flock in your care. I think there is a place for pacifism, maybe if you are the only victim and you make that choice. But I would feel good going to a church where the pastor was willing to immediately contain evil if a mass shooting event started.
Yes.
I would feel safer in church knowing responsible people are armed and ready to defend.
Hi Terry! Without revealing your identity or mine (or for that matter, the church in which we both worship), let me assure you that a trained team is in place. It has been our habit to remain as invisible as possible to avoid being a distraction.
Yes
2 If a thief is found breaking in and is struck so that he dies, there shall be no bloodguilt for him,
3 but if the sun has risen on him, there shall be bloodguilt for him. He shall surely pay. If he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft. (Exodus 22:2-3, ESV)
Sowing and reaping are Biblical principles. If someone forced me to defend myself I wouldn't be the one sending them to judgement, they made that decision when they decided to attack me.
I am a Deacon in my church and never want to harm someone and have no desire to shoot another image bearer. But I am bound by scripture and conscience to protect and provide for my family. Any lawsuits and media spin after the fact are of no consideration.
That being said training and safety should be a top priority if taking on this responsibility.
Dispatching a human to judgement? That’s a somber thought, but the person who puts you in a position to do so has already made that decision.
Answer is, Yes.
You bring up some very important considerations pastor Matt. Well done! 😺
YES !!!!
Of course they are hiding the Manifesto
My brother's church has two officers that are members and sit by the doors providing security during services while they are there off duty. It'd be wise for pastors to speak with any members who are members of law enforcement to see if they would do the same. My town has had cops in the church parking lots just in case recently.
A person doesn't need to be law enforcement to provide defense for a church group.
@@Nick-wn1xwIt helps though
Yes, everyone that is trained to handle a handgun safely should conceal carry to protect themselves and others.
Heck yeah they should!
I love this really honest video from you (not that any of them aren’t honest of course), it really is a tough thing. I have a background in criminal justice and law enforcement, so I have been involved in the process of thinking about these issues at some of the churches I’ve attended or served.
Where I usually come down is that if a person is going to conceal carry in a church (or other public situation) they should also possess the tactical knowledge to use the firearm safely and effectively. Usually this means having training in the military or law enforcement.
Even then, not all of the people who fit that bill are willing to take on the responsibility. At a former church of mine, we had a member who was retired military and worked as an instructor at a local gun range. He had a CCW permit, but never carried at church because he didn’t feel comfortable with the responsibility of dealing with a lot of the things you have mentioned. I have a ton of respect for him.
All that being said, I encourage people who are capable of and comfortable with owning firearms to learn about and exercise their rights (at least here in the USA) in a responsible and safe manner.
"Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it." I've said that for years, for many different things, and firearms are no exception. The thought of using a gun on a human, however, requires tons and tons of prayerful consideration ahead of time, thinking through numerous different possible scenarios, long before you ever (God forbid!) find yourself in a situation where you actually have to make the decision to shoot or not to shoot. Whether or not we should carry is a completely different question of whether or not we should pull our gun and shoot in a particular situation. Thank God for equipping us with the Word, His Holy Spirit and with consciences! Great video. Thank you, brother.
Luke 22:36; Exodus 22:2; Luke 19:27; Romans 13; Peter had a sword.
I grew up in a church that had a radioman posted at the entry-exit and overlooking the parking area 2 hrours before, during and 1 hour hours after the service/Bible study/social, plus a roving team leader checking the halls, fire exits, restrooms and the front doorman. Worked great; according to the pastor, you'd be surprised at the national level each week how many bitter exes show up at church to confront or fire-breathing radicals who feel entitled to a heated debate in front of the entire congregation.
The good shepherd is willing to lay down his life for the sheep. An elder needs to protect his flock.
With proper training yes
It is very sad that our country has come to this, but it is the state that we are in. I appreciate your views, negative and positive. We have addressed this at the Church I attend and taken steps for security. I agree with you, attacks against Christians will continue and we, as Christians, have some serious decisions to make.
Awesome Christian and gun channel is Warrior Poet. They have a great series on carrying in church and things to think about.
I think the answer to the first question is that God's providence over rules the first concern. The second concern is answered by proper training and proveden.
I'm glad you decided to make a video on this. The answer to whether a pastor should carry or not is simply answered by the question: Is the pastor proficient with and comfortable with carrying? If so, then yes, he should. I think the pastor is an ideal candidate to carry, especially in small churches, because he may be the first target (because he is in the middle, up high, and standing), and a focus point to draw the attention from others.
I understand the examples you gave of elders messing this up. Was appropriate behavior while carrying ever discussed with them (hypothetically)? Two big stipulations there: (1) if they are carrying concealed, then the jacket stays on, (2) If they carry concealed it is CARRIED on person, not in a bag from which they will walk away. For those that will be carrying, ground rules of conduct should be established on keeping it concealed, keeping it on person, and what their response should be.
As far as potential negligent discharges, then that would be on the person - the weapon should not be coming out of the holster to "show people," etc. and it should be carried in a holster that covers the trigger. If an official "security team" is established, then mandate what their qualification standard should be. If a guy with little to no training is armed "security" that went to the range once or twice to get his CCW and does not practice consistently, do you really want him taking a 7 - 10 yard shot across a sanctuary of screaming people in the most terrifying event of his life?
With respect, some of the things you bring up should not weigh that heavily in the decision. The biggest example of that is: "How will the MSM portray the church having to shoot someone?" Who cares? Seriously, who cares? Nashville is a great example - the Main Stream Media (MSM) is more concerned on how the child-murderer and her community was treated than the victims and their families. The LAST thing you should worry about is how you will be portrayed in the news when it's time to defend life. If you are in the situation where not taking action would result in loss of life, then you take action, you don't worry about the MSM. That exact evaluation has caused hesitation and cost Law Enforcement (LE) Officers' lives as well. LE/Military have a saying: Better tried by 12 than carried by 6; it is better to do what is right in the situation and live to face the consequences, than to hem haw about what will be perceived and be killed (or have others killed). The MSM will run with whatever agenda they wish; and based on the reaction of the populace (and your geographic location) an activist DA may even try to indict the guy that saved his church members. It's better to deal with those possible situations knowing that your flock is safe, than surviving and wondering if you could have made a difference.
Another thing people don't think about is medical kits (Individual First Aid Kids (IFAKs) and "Team" First Aid Kits). They have large trauma kits available from stores like North American Rescue which is the same kit many LE agencies are issued. They have tourniquets, bandages, compression, one-way valves, etc. This is a good thing to have that can pay off in scenarios that are not just revolving around active shooters. You may have a LE, EMT, or Military member that can go over it's proper use. There are also a number of training modules / videos online.
You may also reach out to your Local LE agency to do site-surveys. Some departments will do this as part of their service, and some even have presentations they give to places of worship. If your local LE does not have it, you may reach out to your local FBI office that might facilitate that.
Also, don't forget that the protection of the church is about the people and not the building in which they are sitting (though physical security is important). So wherever they are: fellowship hall, fair, fall harvest festival - have a plan for things like this. A small example: if doing trunk or treat in the parking lot, is the lot exposed to a roadway where a car could drive by? If so, can other vehicles or solid material be used to shield the availability of someone driving by and shooting into the crowd? Things like that.
Bottom line, these are the times and the wolves we were warned about. A shepherd not only has to feed the flock, he also has to defend them. Today that unfortunately means planning for things like this.
These are all questions that every church should have already been discussing. The fact that we have not demonstrates we have not only been naive, but negligent. The time to come to decisions on these weighty matters is BEFORE a wicked person does something horrible.
Yes... Haven't watched the video yet, but yes.
Ill click a like, Not going to watch the video but will comment "YEP!" to the question asked.
John Knox's job before being a pastor was to "concealed carry" a sword to protect the Reformer George Wishart, so in my view any Presbyterians pastors who concealed carry are in good company...
I love your content. Our state forbids concealed carry in a place of worship unless authorized by the church. We have a safety and security team with people that are trained to respond to any number of emergencies (medical, evacuation, deadly threat).
Members on our team are evaluated and approved by our elders and are required to train with their firearms regularly and have to pass a firearm and medical qualification annually. We meet as a team regularly and drill scenarios.
Ushers and pastors are not on the team themselves. All of this ensures that qualified people are carrying firearms which will minimize / eliminate accidents. Pastors can be free to focus on ministry while a dedicated team of people are focused on securing and protecting the congregation.
We don't advertise that we are armed, but I think most people know that we are. We have a marked security vehicle out front so people know that there is security in some form.
A couple things to consider: Matthew you are correct that there will be financial consequence to using a firearm in a self defense situation. Lawyers agree that even if you are found perfectly innocent in the matter, and did everything right in the situation, you are still likely to pay about $150,000 in legal fees.
That said, there is insurance from a few reputable firms that cover legal fees in these situations and I highly recommend not carrying without having that coverage.
The second consideration is training. Some states require minimal training but I would encourage EVERY ccw carrier to get ample training above and beyond what is required. We like to think that we’ll rose to the occasion if a situation reveals itself, but most experienced trainers say you won’t. You’ll fall back on your level of training. So if you haven’t trained for accuracy, you won’t be accurate, and if you haven’t trained under stress, you will likely be more of a hinderance or even a danger if you take action in an active situation.
So if you carry- train, train, train, and get insurance.
Yes you should
Actually, I do think it is a pretty simple answer. The person who I am prepared to use it on has violated an individual who bares the likeness of God. If this person has so little care about my God, the one who loves me then out of the protection of the others who bare His image, I will protect them. Will I be happy, do I look forward to, do I want to by no means but my love for my God and my love for His people compeles me to want to protect and guide the sheep He has allowed me to guide and hold up to Him. Will I once the individual is neutralized help that person 1000% what ever add is need to keep them alive will be given, but I will not spare a sheep for the sake of a wolf.
Churches Must have some form of armed security. Up to the Elders how to do it.
In general, yes. And get responsible training, and keep responsibly training. Improve every day. No use (and a danger to yourself and others) having a firearm if you don't know how to properly use it.
I carry all day, every day. I'm not a Pastor, just an Elder. I conceal at church, but our state does not require it. I have my license as well as training and grew up hunting and target shooting. The only time my gun leaves the holster is for cleaning. Don't draw if you don't intend to use it. Don't handle it unless you intend to use it or clean it. I open carry regularly and have only been treated politely.
I am an associate pastor from a rural Texas town….I don’t have to worry about carrying as on any given Sunday there’s a handful….or possibly two handfuls of congregants carrying. Both open and concealed. Moods here are pretty relaxed about it. Even from law enforcement.
I can't even imagine such a thing! (I mean that in the best possible way.)
What's better: defending yourself or those of one's flock or going overseas to kill an "enemy" you've never met who also has never threatened you? Turning the other cheek is in regards to religious persecution, not criminal behavior. Christ didn't tell his disciples to get swords so cutting bread would be easier.
I am a member of a church here in Las Vegas where several of the security team, including two deacons, conceal carry. Making the presents of weapons known has deescalated at least one situation that I know of before it turned violent. (A local motorcycle gang has made it part of initiation to punch a preacher while at the pulpit.) I pray, with the pastor and membership, that a gun is never actually drawn in church, but feel much safer knowing that we are protected. All our security are ex-military and/or part of security at one of the hotels in the area. (Side fact, there are more churches in Las Vegas than casinos.)
Also, Go Pioneers! Never went to school at Malone, but growing up in EFCER in NE Ohio, spent a LOT of time on campus.
Yes or at least have a designated person to protect the flock. Especially after the Nashville event.
Yes… or at least have a group of men who do on your security team.
I can see Beale's commentary on your desk.
Where we live, many people carry concealed. Some even open carry. The idea of someone else seeing it isn't much in an issue here. As far as leaving it somewhere on accident, that is very serious and dangerous. Remembering the cost of someone's life, and the penalty that would come from that, should be in the forefront of your mind to not leave it lying around.
We need to look around us. Select who we are willing to watch die. Then decide if CCW is right for you. I believe scripture gives me the job of protection of my family. And I will. I carried a handgun in our inner city church for 28 of my 42 years of ministry and nobody ever knew except my wife. But, it requires wisdom, training and dedication.
You've done no wrong if you carry a gun.
Jesus commands his disciples to buy a sword.
"Better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener in a war zone"
The Christians in Nehemiah, Esther, the Priests who confronted Hezekiah, all carried weapons.
Time spent training your weapon, or doing Brazilian jui jitsu, is not time wasted.
Jeff Durbin, Voddie baucham are good to consult
Do we allow media to determine our actions?
The right is terrified to the point of inaction of being called names by the media/left.
For someone who is well trained, responsibly carrying a modern handgun in a well designed and constructed holster in good condition, to have an accidental discharge would be extremely unlikely. It's not like you're going to be handling it outside of an immediate defensive need.
This is a decision to be taken thoughtfully, prayerfully, and with due respect for the seriousness that it deserves.
I must way that you're fortunate to live in a free state where this is even legal. Preserve that right as long as you can. God bless and be safe.
Does the Bible passage when Peter cuts off the ear of the servant of the high priest and Jesus rebukes Peter have any sway on this topic?
If it’s a larger church, the hiring of professional security/off duty officers should probably be considered.
Yes. I don’t find it controversial at all. You’re still human, everyone there is still human. It wasn’t too long ago we saw a gunman attempt a shooting in a TX church and was stopped. It’s also a good idea to know who else among attendees does too if you need help. And it is also important to be trained. It’s not a one time thing. It must be ongoing and persistent, responsibly. That’s just my opinion as former law enforcement.
He did more than attempt. He killed one of the security folks before being taken out. Who knows how many He would have killed if no one was armed.
I’ve carried concealed since 2015, even in church if allowed. Was on the security team for a church that requires training and qualification to the same standard for LEOs in my state. Carrying is perfectly safe with a proper holster along with adequate training. And the odds of an unintended discharge is essentially zero if the pistol stays holstered. As far as sending someone to meet their Maker, the only difference between an individual and the police doing so is whether you are willing to deal with the consequences that you discussed. There is no glory in taking a human life, even a bad one. But I would lay down my life for my brethren and use my firearm, but only if it was the last option to protect innocent lives. Yes it would be a life changing event due to emotional and possibly financial issues but I’m a member of ACLDN, who assist with legal fees IF the use of force and possession of firearms is legal. I have contacted them about a church scenario and they will provide assistance with the aforementioned caveats. Training is a very important aspect of safely carrying. A church scenario is fraught with risks in a panic situation so one should be prepared if you choose to carry with the intent to respond to a deadly threat in church. John 15:12-13 is what guides me on this subject.
I think there are lots of people with firearms who have little to no training on how to use them. If a church thinks it needs to be prepared to meet violent force with violent force, get trained individuals to protect the church. It is scary to have untrained pastors and elders and parishioners carrying and don't know how to use discernment in dealing with an armed intruder. My church has a police officer who is there for protection, and I would think they have other measures that I may not be aware that they are doing to protect the congregation.
An added thought would be to bring in a security specialist to do an evaluation and then put in place well thought out plans for different eventualities. Just having an action plan that is clear and known can be a huge help.
the intimidation factor is dealt with by concealed carrying. the whole purpose of concealed carrying is precicely so nobody else knows whether or not a you are armed. This has two upsides to it. 1. nobody will be automatically intimidated by you or uncomfortable to be around you. 2. it gives a criminal opportunity to make an error in victim selection, and thus gives you or anyone else concealing a strategic advantage.
I am a 2A advocate and think concealed carry is becoming a must in our societal disintegration. The hypothetical situations you mentioned like leaving firearm behind is because not properly trained or careless. That person then needs to self assess if they have any business carry. I also think the legal consequences are a factor and that is why carry insurance and legal assistance is a must
Just found your RUclips channel and I'm learning and enjoying your videos. So now you have another female viewer. Lol
Short answer: Yes
Long answer: Also yes and I'd say carry your gun as much as your sword (Bible)
I believe that everyone 21 and older should carry!!!! Because I also believe that the country would be a better place because it would make criminals think twice
Kind of stupid considering how many morons are 21 and older in this country.
I'm from a very different tradition, so my reasoning may not carry very well here. I found this channel because of our common interest in Byzantine priority.
I'm not a pacifist. I will defend the crusades and defend Joshua's wars without qualms. I have connections to the people in Syria who had to form arm militias to defend their cities. We have to ask, though, "What is theoprepēs?"
Congregations, and ministers in particular, are particularly concentrated images of Christ who went to his voluntary death despite having the ability to call down ten legions of angels. If a minster takes a gun and shoots an attacker, then Christ will be blasphemed. This is likely even if a parishioner does so. In these contexts, people provide an image of Christ, and that image was to go and die voluntarily. It came up recently with another parishioner, and when I explained this, he said, "That would mean we have no guns or defenses in a service. What happens if an attacker comes?"
I answered "We die; that was always part of the deal with Jesus."
Ultimately, the self-defense is a small defense in the face of what is coming: There is an eternity of life if we die for Christ. We cannot stop what's coming. Republicans are worthless and spineless, and the right won't win a civil war despite the rhetoric online. It just doesn't have conviction or organization. Barring something unforeseen, there will be a persecution, and we will die. Lots of us will die. That is the only way forward and to redeem our people. We have to go to our deaths and show Christ to the world.
I don't have happy, optimistic proposals outside of, "When they kill you, Christ will reward you for faithfulness." If anything the possibility of a shooter is fairly minuscule compared to what will come. We can use this to steel ourselves for what will likely come. It's going to be much worse, and no security detail will help with that.
"Congregations, and ministers in particular, are particularly concentrated images of Christ who went to his voluntary death despite having the ability to call down ten legions of angels. If a minster takes a gun and shoots an attacker, then Christ will be blasphemed. "
Nonsense. What's horrific is, if you are able to protect an innocent person - especially a child - and you do nothing! If you choose to sit there and let yourself be murdered, that's up to you. But you are not free to make that choice for others.
They can kill me. I have no great attachment to this life. But if I have the ability to stop an evil act against innocent people (especially children) but take no action, I would expect the judgment against me to be nearly as harsh as that against the attacker himself.
I also had a thought about the media spinning things wrong... again just my personal opinion, but I think it would be a risk worth taking if it meant that you had saved the lives of families in your pews. You can take the media hit and that family gets to tuck in their child that night.
Yes. Of course they should. A shepherd should protect the sheep, and if we found a church with a pastor that concealed carry, AND both my husband and I are concealed carry, AND other members are concealed carry, then its extremely unlikely that many lives would be lost from a shooter because we'll all have different vantage points and can dispatch that person. Also, the shooter has been given their whole life to repent and know the Creator (Romans 1:20 makes it clear, and God created us with a conscience), if they haven't repented and instead made a premeditated decision to take the lives of others, then they should be dispatched immediately for the safety of many.
If you can't afford a proper weapon and holster to defend the flock, sell your suit and get one.
A proper holster with good retention makes the possibility of accidental discharge essentially 0. Bag carry is no good for the examples listed, and there is absolutely no reason for the gun to come out of the holster unless it’s time to use it. Keep it concealed and don’t advertise.
Media spin is against us no matter what as evidenced by recent weeks.
I carry as a member as I carry everywhere I go. I have never mentioned it and I doubt I ever will. We need people ready to protect our church family but if I am honest I would prefer the Pastor himself was not carrying a gun on Sunday. He is there to preach the Word and minister to the people and I think during that specific time he should have others ready to protect but not himself carry. The rest of the week he could do as he saw fit. I am very pro-carry but something about the preacher while presenting the Word and presiding over worship while simultaneously carrying a gun seems inappropriate.
Interesting take, particularly since I grew up in the Friends Church (though my pastor had flown fighters in The War, so that church wasn't as distinctly non-violent as the Friends tend to be). But I can't agree with the position that a Christian should never send another person directly to judgment. Even ignoring the OT's positive injunctions on war, and on use of force in defense of self and others (which shouldn't be ignored, of course), killing would-be murderers is loving my neighbor. If a gunman comes into my church during an average Sunday morning service, that's around 500 lives at risk. Which is more loving: to stop him (likely by killing him), or to let him do as he pleases until he gets tired of killing?
I'm aware that pacifism has a long tradition among Christians, and that there are sincere Christians of good faith who hold to it. But it simply isn't the teaching of the Bible.
Didn’t watch the video but everyone that is responsible and able should always carry 🤷🏾♂️
I'm a Pastor living in Australia, we have no gun rights at all. So, i would love the option, but would not know if i would?
If he or his leadership is already a trained gun owner and comfortable with all safety concerns. The issue is a leader just buying a gun and maybe taking a 3 hour class. But again, Pastor or the leader already has experience the. I think it’s wise.
I have respect for the pacifist strain in Christianity, but very few who claim to be are. If you are unwilling to use force yourself, but are willing to call the police, then you are not a pacifist, you’re exporting the violence.
Amen 6 victims.
This might be going to be deep, but pastors, preachers, reverend, and priests, they already have a concelded weapon, that being the holy trinity of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit
Yes, he should. I would thank God if I saw a church leader, especially one that I knew was a good man and trained, had their weapon on them and was willing to protect me. God bless men of courage like that. And women as well.
All church leaders should be well trained in handling firearms, in security protocols, and in dealing with these potential scenarios. We should be seeking out counsel from Christian leaders in other countries where violence, especially against Christians, is the norm. I hate that we are in this situation. I find it abhorrent. I wish we didn't have to talk about it or think about it at all. But this is reality. It's been reality in much of the world, for much of history. We were all just spoiled by God's blessing in America for a long, long time. We have so completely rejected Christ in this country. We are under judgment. We have to deal with reality as it is, not how we wish it would be.
Thank you for even caring about this issue. I sent an email to the pastor of the church I'm attending. It's hard to even call it "my church" at this point. I was told the attack would be addressed. We got a small paragraph in the weekly announcements newsletter, basic prayer stuff. Pastor went on vacation. Nothing was said by the other pastor speaking that Sunday. Nothing else was said. I am sick over it all.
I'm in the minority, but for me personally the answer is NO because I and could not take the life of another person.
We are back to the colonial and pioneer days in the US of guarding houses of worship and schools from savages.
Our church has a security team that is made up mostly volunteered members who are local law enforcement.
Did not hear one Bible verse brought up or even what Jesus said? How about what Jesus said to his disciples Luke 22:36 "And let the one who has NO sword sell his cloak and buy one." as the sword was the handgun at the time...we live in evil times obviously we need training as Peter was not trained and poorly used the sword but Jesus repaired the ear.
We live in a fallen world. A fallen world populated by guns. A fallen world with evil men who have guns.
If evil has a gun, then I will have one too.
Turn the cheek or live & die by the sword. It is a choice. GOD Bless
Yet Jesus said if you don't have a sword to sell your garment & buy one. Don't go looking for a battle but be prepared, especially as a man, to use force to protect life if needed.
This drives me nuts, especially coming from professing Christians. Turning the other cheek has to do with not taking personal vengeance. It especially has nothing to do with protecting *other people*.
Matthew 5:38-42 (emphasis mine)
"if anyone slaps YOU on the right cheek"
"if anyone would sue YOU and take YOUR tunic
"if anyone forces YOU to go one mile"
"give to the one who begs from YOU"
If YOU want to let someone harm YOU, especially for the sake of the gospel, that's YOUR choice. But we are responsible for protecting others, especially those who are weaker than us.
@@Yesica1993 i don't disagree -- we were given a choice -- it is the unbelievers that don't understand the choice is available to CHRISTIANS and yes many professing CHRISTIANS misunderstand many chapters and verses. GOD Bless
@@vashmatrix5769 we were not created in weakness but in strength. GOD Bless
@@Rev.DavidJTowns ok. That doesn't negate my comment.
Thomas Sowell said there are no solutions in life, just trade-offs. Other than the Gospel, he might be right. So this is a trade-off, not a dilemma IMO.
I should also point out that in Lev 19:16, we are commanded to NOT stand idly by the shedding of our neighbor's blood. That is to say, we have a duty to save life if we have the means to do so..
Israeli carry (none on the chamber) is optimal. That's what I do when I carry in the church, especially around children when I was a children's pastor.
sadly u folks might have to experience what us jewish folks have to go thru. In many shuls during the high holidays we have armed guards. Its a sad reminder of the sickos out there.
I'm 100% supportive of RESPONSIBLE concealed carry. I also have my CCP but am somewhat ashamed that I don't consistently carry (it's hard to stay in the habit!). But I definitely feel safer when the good guys around me are armed.
And like others have mentioned, my church has an armed police officer in attendance at every service. My pastor has also made some coy statements that he would be happy for the men in the congregation to be armed and prepared to protect their families. Which is just 1 of the many things I love about that guy!