Ierusalem: Anno Domini Review: Point Me To My Seat
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2024
- Tom, Chris & Joey take a look at Ierusalem!
0:00 Intro
1:40 Overview
8:15 Final Thoughts
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BGG Link: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3... 
Игры
Thank you for your review!
I think Devir games needs to tighten up their rulebooks, but I appreciate this publisher putting out some cool euro games eg Bitoku, Lacrimosa, Ierusalem
I'd love to work with them :)
I just taught this game to my wife today, she is not much into board games, and interestingly enough she said she loves it (you can see it in her eyes when she is planning before playing a card).
As someone who isn't religious (Christian or otherwise) I still really like when this sort of theme is done well.
Would love to check this one out
I've just been able to play it twice since I got it on launch (It is a big setup)... but I really, really like the game. I feel like it can go in my top 5 easily after some more plays.
I get Tom don't liking the changing seats, but in my experience, you only have 1 or 2 of those per game... and yes, we do tend to hive each other favors that don't really help, but we usually don't look at the symbols, so that can be a more helpful than the initial favor.
The worst part of Devir games is always the rulebooks. However, in this one I found some good improvements compared to other ones, like Bitoku, Bamboo or TRC
Looks like a 2nd edition could polish a few things (rulebook, iconography, 2 player mode...) and make this game better.
100%
It was Jehovah with an "I" in the movie.
I thought it was Jesus but I don’t remember
It was Ioey Evans
It was Iehovah
@@peterevensen The name of God. Which everyone knows is Jehovah.
But in Latin Jehovah begins with an I.
Omg, I just noticed, you got that spider-lamp! So cool))
Just picked this one up. Theme is unique. Gameplay looks great! This might be a game that will go down as one that Tom personally just didn’t jive with…like Brass Birmingham 😂.
I freaking loved it. First playthrough is kinda rough but then it flows very nicely.
I agree with Chris and love the game. It went over well in my group as well.
The theme I was worried would be something my group would deter from, but I'm glad they just didn't really have a strong opinion on it being controversial or anything, and its been great for my group. We're 5 plays in and still thinking of how we'll play the next game. The only thing for us is the Judas Apostle, we're thinking of house ruling it, its just not great overall aside from 5$. Note we've only played this at 3 or 4 each time.
Great to see the differing opinions! Thanks so much Dice Tower crew, very well done. This review helped convince me this game isn't for me, it just doesn't look fun enough for the mixed bag of mechanisms and general game overhead.
I love this game. With the stipulation that it is for 3 or 4 players.
Tom seems crazy in this review. I feel like Chris objectively refutes most of his complaints.
It's always objective when it agree with you, right? :)
Hey, I'm willing to be in the minority. Those are just my opinions, that's all.
I really like it too, nice and interactive game.
Does the rearrange action affect all the columns?
Yes, all cards can be rearranged. Though only one Apostle scoring can be triggered per turn.
Chris has fantastic speaking voice!
I would agree with most of the comments. It has a lot of mechanisms, but they are not necessarily put together in a common way. I’ve only played it once at 4 and struggled with the strategy as the play was unintuitive. But I liked that as it was a new puzzle to try to figure out. I didn’t think that playing cards in order was too restrictive as you had 3 slots so I would just dump cards in my 3rd slot until I could get a rearrange. Iconography on the cards are terrible as they are hard to see and the differences in art were a bit annoying but could be overlooked. Overall I still really enjoyed my one play. My one hesitation in buying this is that I play a lot of games at 2 player and have heard that that gameplay is quite different at that count. I think that the gameplay is a bit tight but I have played other popular games that I thought were much worse.
Whats the criteria of seal of excellence vs approval ???
If someone gives an 8.5 or higher?
8.5 is excellence
7.5 is approval
@troygessler1188 Any reviewer giving a 7 is a seal of approval and an 8.5 is for Excellence.
@@DTChrisYi awesome! Thanks!
I fall somewhere in between Tom and Joey. I also felt like the need to play cards in the right order was too restricting but I like the different ways to score points. I do wish the game ramped up more. It has a tease of engine building but as you place followers into the last supper it slows you down. Overall I thought the theme was done phenomenally well but the restrictions and balance of scoring just wasn't my favorite.
re: Tom's comment about giving someone a favor- we played it such that even if a player's warehouse is full they can gain the resources. This is because the only time you check to see if your warehouse is full and discard down to your limit is at the end of the turn. There are multiple little rules like this that we got wrong the first game or two.
Very good point. Per the rules, you discard down to warehouse limit at the end of your turn, so you should still get those resources.
A game like Concordia has physical spots in a warehouse that when filled prevent you from taking more. I suppose you can play it as your table prefers.
I’m waiting for Joey to say “sir, your table is ready.”
In the intro Tom joked about this theme being like Musical Chairs.
In Germany, Musical Chairs is called "Journey to Jerusalem". Coincidence?
Tom is right 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 of 5: uniform art - would make sense although it doesn’t bother me (I find TM art to be fine as well for reference). The symbol reference - great you told me the name but what does it do??? A small game (table) expanded out - I could agree with that but I still think the extra stuff, favors, parables, resource management was just enough extra little bits that fit together and I needed to plan for. Sit next to Jesus and pay more stuff - yeah seemed opposite haha. Take this favor - oh you can’t hold the stones you would get or use this symbol which you already have three of, sorry but thanks for the four points haha.
How does a a 8, 5 and 9 become a seal of excellence? There is no average or something like that?
No. They take the highest rating available.
@@LegoAssassin098 super weird. Thanks.
Tom is wrong part 1 of 4: constrained by hand of cards. Many games imply restrictions like that. You don’t have just one option in this game, each card you are holding has the location action and on the bottom of the card 1-2 supplementary actions, all you have to do is sequence out your moves and find the best choice(s) for you. I don’t want to go through his top 100 and pick out the three games which have a similar hand of card restriction mechanism, but one that comes to mind is Dune Imperium, so what’s the difference with that game and this one in regards to your hand of cards and the actions you can take, probably his answer would be Dune is more rewarding/fun but they seem similar to me, please explain why not.
Criticisms are spot on, Tom. Lacrimosa was an excellent effort from the Devir team, so I was really interested in trying this one with a theme that I think is not done very well in games. Unfortunately, the game just fell flat. Too much take that for a medium-ish euro game; the scoring track makes no sense and creates weird incentives; the helping out other players mechanism felt really bad and it was always debatable as to whether the right players were being helped because of the swingy scoring mechanisms; etc. Still enjoy Devir's games, but this one was a big miss for my group.
Thanks for a balanced review. I’ve been seeing a lot about this game (thanks RUclips algorithm) and the reviews seem mostly positive. I was wondering if it really as good people are saying or if they are feeling compelled to rate a “religious-themed” game that isn’t bad higher simply because it isn’t bad. I had a feeling it was over-rated. Thanks to Tom for his honest opinion (not to knock the experience of the others)!
If it helps, my group is non religious, and we've played it 5 times now, and will probably hit the table again. It is part of our 12x10 board game challenge as well. The mechanics and such are very solid, although not innovative by any means, they just feel like a good amount of decision making. Each time we've played we've taken different approaches. Only one person wasn't completely sold on the game but even they said they don't mind playing it if others are into it cause it is a pretty close game each time (within 10 points for all 4 players so far).
I agree with Tom on this one
I'll bite. In what way is Thomas the greatest apostle?
Probably because Tom Vasel shares his name.
Sorry, it's a dumb joke. Whenever I talk in church and mention the disciples, I always call Thomas the greatest apostle. So many people just smile and nod and never ask why.
Tom is wrong part 4 of 4: card scoring for the apostles action sucks. I’m not taking the literal one point example he stated, which he unfairly didn’t mention good examples, but again you can set your cards up to score with your best cards from a point value aspect. Gaining the better cards that have more point values are necessary so go get them. The cards are valued differently because some cards have the one supplementary action at the bottom while other cards have two, and some are stronger etc.
Why don't the white cards say A.D. XXXIII? (Even though it's an anachronism, and the Anno Domini convention wasn't created for another 500 years...)
Haha, yes, it's a little bit like that Simpsons tree house of horror set in the 1920s "First World War? Why do you keep calling it that?"
Given that the game's subtitle is Anno Domini, it fits as the player's viewpoint is retrospective. In context, sure it could have said 83rd Year of Since The Reign of Tiberius Caesar, but I'm fine with using a more understood shorthand.
Tom is wrong part 2 of 4: have to play cards in order. No you don’t, Chris eloquently explained you don’t have to. Again, the rearranging action is huge to reorder your cards you didn’t (and don’t) have to play in order to now become in order to trigger an apostle action as well as score points.
Tom is wrong 3 of 4: getting switched at the table and there being nothing to do about it. Again, Chris eluded to some actions in the game allowing you to switch after being switched. Also and more interestingly to me is slow playing it, working the timing, sure rush next to Jesus and yeah you are now the target to getting swapped, but if you build a small coalition of meeple behind the first spot of the lower two apostles, well nobody will pick you and you then can sneak in with a decent score, among other tactics to employ. There is more nuance to it and while it is limited overall, you can work the table as it were.
So, play this game with three or four players, as long as one of them isn’t Tom. 😜
This theme is kinda ridiculous to me, specifically the idea of getting points in relation to where you are at the table. That seems like more of a victorian dinner sort of affair, sitting next to people of importance. As far as religious-themed games go, I think I prefer the idea of the game Chris mentioned in a top 10 list about collecting accounts to write the gospels.
The whole premise of being closest to Jesus or being best is rather opposite of the lesson Jesus was trying to teach his disciples. I know I know, just sayin.
On the other hand, first will be the last and last will be the first due to the switch mechanizm 🙃
Those jehovah witnesses may have a chance if they carry this to my door…. I would still close the door but I would think about it
Dang. Not often I see this much of a discrepancy
Bear in mind, Tom also ranks Brass: Birmingham a 5/10. So, that's not really saying much.
@@zomorion9183 iirc that's another one Chris likes, so I kind of appreciate the discrepancy here, gives you a good idea of the kind of tastes the game is meant for
Seems like a fair rating for Brass 😎
@@zomorion9183 And Chris tends to rank religious games very highly. So, again, that's not really saying much :p
@@EyalItsik Proof of that, please.
my views most align with Zee, but Joey is running a tight 1A. His review of this game is well balanced, and he sniped the last word from Tom 😃 great addition to Dice Tower, hope Joey stays for the long haul!
Great example of how different peoples gaming tastes are. Unless you have exactly the same taste you really have no idea if a game will work for you rendering reviews fairly unhelpful. I’ve literally just stopped listening to Tom’s opinion. It’s astounding how many great games I would have missed, including this one, if I took his takes to heart. And it’s not that he’s wrong, he’s 100% right for him, it’s just our idea of fun is often just polar opposite. Games are just best being tried if possible so you get to form your own opinion or watching playthroughs which offer a chance to see the game in action.
As someone who isn’t religious, I did a double take when Tom called it a historical theme.
I sometimes forget people think the Bible literally happened.
It literally did…it’s a historical text…
Just having every mechanic and the kitchen sink in it isn't a recipe for a great game. From what it sounds like I think I'm more with Tom from the points on the constraining and swingy parts - a high learning curve coupled with poor graphic design and iconography is just going to make the game a chore to play. I'm not seeing where a 9 is coming from.
Might help if you actually played it.
To me it is so weird that it’s a competitive game about sitting closer to Jesus. It’s such a bad taste to make a competitive game about that. And I'm not even Christian (although I've been for 18 years)
Yes exactly this. It would make more sense if the table were merely the score track, abstractly representing how each apostle had performed in relation to one another.
Here's the way I read into the theme, but didn't want to go on a long diatribe during the review:
The game culminates at Golgatha and the crucifixion, not the return of Christ. That three-ish day span was that of mourning, confusion, and I imagine a lot of retrospection for all of his followers. So they would be looking back at the last moment they shared in Jesus' public ministry, the Last Supper. Your score at the end seems to represent your positive emotional memories of that time. You sat close to Jesus at the Last Supper? Very positive memories of that day. You sat next to Judas? Very negative memories, like finding out you sat on a bus next to Ted Bundy. You listened to and absorbed more of his parables? Positive memories to reflect on. You helped serve others by giving them favors, just like he taught the washing of feet? Positive memories. That's why I'm okay with the end game scoring mechanisms, because I view them as the followers' own consolation during a period if mourning. The game doesn't frame them as "Righteousness Points" or "Holiness Points." The theme fits very well to me in the lense of the timing of the game, remembering your last shared moments with a loved one. See, sometimes I care about theme!
@@DTChrisYi That is a good way to explain it, I think.
@@DTChrisYi If that's the case, shouldn't Peter get -15 points for denying him three times? ;)
I couldn't agree more with Tom's critiques. All the mechanics tacked onto this game feel half-baked and generally bad. I've seen several reviews calling this game of the year so far, and I don't know what they're on about. This game is mediocre at best.
It's a religious theme, not a historical one
Yeah. This.
If this is historical, so is Ankh.
Caling it historical is proselytising, nothing historical about the jezus-myth
Umm… Jesus was a historical figure. The majority of historians would agree with this statement.
@@aronkleinsasser970 Not exactly. The historicity of Yeshua basically starts and ends with there having been at least one proseletizing jew with that name in Judea with a following that eventually resulted in Christian sects. Everything else included is the myth. There is no historical evidence for any particular disciples or anything else in the story, and the accounts in the bible are self-contradicting.
It's historical in the same way Abraham lincoln: vampire hunter is historical.
@@aronkleinsasser970 Still that doesn’t make every story in the bible part of the history.
too much fantasy for me!
“If I close my eyes and ears, it doesn’t exist !!!! “ 👍🏼
No disrespect, but Joey does not work as a reviewer for me. He seems like a nice guy and I wish him well, but his opinions just blow with the wind, because there is not much reasoning behind them and he seems to avoid confrontation. Also I’m not having much fun with the jokes anymore, because I feel like he is doing the laughing for me. Maybe it’s just me though.
I agree, I find him quite irritating as a reviewer and don't think he has been a good addition to the channel. He doesn't really share any interesting insights or deep analysis. He seems like a genuinely nice guy to have a game with, but I don't think he's a great reviewer.
I agree
Lol, the man states it won’t offend anyone and the other man looks at it totally from the side of none believers being offended (never even considers believers).
Why would a non-believer be offended by a Christian/religion themed game (they could just not buy it if they don’t like Christianity)?
It is the Christians that are having a game based upon their deeply held beliefs which are the ones that could/should be offended if anyone is.
Imagine I made a game about atheists and stated don’t worry this game won’t offend theists lol. That is how narcissistically that reviewer seems to think.
Perhaps he was trying to convey that people not of the Christian faith were willing to play it and still enjoyed it?
I have no interest in playing it myself, so I agree with your sentiment about atheists just avoiding it.
If only the Dice Tower considered how other cultures and religions are portrayed as much as they care about this story.
Dude, have you seen how much hate religious themed games get these days? Of course, it won't offend Christians they know the story already. So if they say the theme is implemented well, it means it will be a positive for Christians. And they also mention for non believers that the game is historical, so you can play the game without biblical beliefs and it works fine. There's no narcissism involved here. That's such a strange word to add.
I agree, personally I don’t see why a non-believer would need to be offended in a biblical themed material. (Although in todays world everyone seems to be in everyone’s business) I’m not understanding the narcissism.
It would be akin to making a game about a Muslims pilgrimage to Mecca, why would anyone care if an infidel is offended by the game, therefore the game creator needs to make sure the game is in good taste with those who hold that pillar of faith.
As a person of Christian faith, there needs to be a certain historical/biblical standard if I am going to support a project dressing up as one of Gospel theme. I believe there needs to be a level of reverence to the source material in attempting to do such. Depending on the discrepancy from historical/ biblical accuracy I could see a scenario in which a person of faith would definitely be justified in being offended.
What you described was the opposite of narcissism, which would have implied they were only thinking about it from a Christian perspective.
People get offended by religious themes when they perceive them to be preachy or contain negative depictions of other religions so it's perfectly fair to point out in a review that this game doesn't contain any content like that.
You stated: // What you described was the opposite of narcissism, which would have implied they were only thinking about it from a Christian perspective. //
What a weird take. The issue/narcissism is regardingthe one sidedness of the concern from the reviewer; yet you say being one sided is the opposite of narcissism. Very strange.
If he had looked at it from both sides I would have not said anything, but the fact he looked at it only from one side (and I would say the side with the least right, of the two, to be concerned with the theme of the game) seems to show he was only looking at it from his own standpoint and not that of others that don't share his beliefs.