Sorry, this vid just came up in my timeline. 35ish years ago, I was at a 'car stereo competition' as a spectator. There was a guy with a regular two seat cab pick up truck. In the narrow space between the back wall of the cab and the back of the seats, there was a speaker box. The top couldn't have been more than 6"s wide. On the top were 6-8 tiny little 4" speakers poking out. To this day, I can't for the life of me understand how those little speakers produce sooooo much bass! This truck absolutely thumped!!!
The most underrated subwoofer is a 8", I have had everything under the sun, 4-15's, 4-12's, 2-15's, 2-12's, 1-12, some different 10" setups, but now for a beautiful well balanced sound and still good bass, I would take two high quality 8's!
It all depends on the design of the subs and your personal taste. Larger subs in smaller sealed boxes under high power will change your mind. I just heard 4 12s in a small sealed box powered by a 5k amp and I was stunned.
@@CarsandCats - It is not. You aren’t taking into consideration the material, the weight, the xmax, servo vs non servo, sealed vs non sealed, box design and other factors. Too many of you are just repeating what you you heard others say.
Ran two 8" and four 6.5" Sundown Audio Subwoofers in my vehicle and was blown away with how much bass extension I was able to get without loosing my entire cargo capacity. Small hatchback vehicles are very useful as long as you are filling the hatch full of subwoofer box. I was able to stuff the 6 subs in each corner, each in their own sealed boxes. Ran them on a single two channel amp... all said an done, still had full access to the cargo area, and got a huge amount of bass when compared to the stock system sound.
I've been a huge fan of 10s for years now. My last setup had two 10" drivers and two 10" passive radiators... sounded amazing for just about everything I listened to, and fit behind the rear seat in my crew cab truck.
The main reason I prefer one subwoofer over many is weight. For my daily driver, I love as lightweight as possible and cramming six 10” subwoofers each with a 30lb magnet is not good compared to just one 2000 watt 18” with a one 30lb magnet. It’s a huge weight difference. But of coarse that’s just my personal preference for my daily driver. If I had a dedicated SPL vehicle, then I’d wouldn’t care much. Thank goodness for neo subs but DAMN they can be expensive! Furthermore, I don’t use heavy boxes. I use sonotube which I can lift with one finger but is strong enough to withstand a lot of pressure.
Many years ago i owned a 2000 Volvo C70 hard top. Once i saw how the 12 speaker sound system was (installed from the factory) i stopped buying big subs. The Volvo used a components layout using 8"subs with a tweeter throughout the car totaling 12 speakers. It sounded great. I follow this layout with any car i make for myself. You get big sound and you still have practical storage space in the truck and thought the vehicle.
@@JaimeCarlosCamacho i don't know a video of link showing how Volvo laid out their system, but maybe you can Google search the sound system of a factory 2000 C70 coupe.
I used to have a V70 t5 back in the day. It had 4x12 dual coil subs. 3 off a mono bock in series parallel at 2.66 for lows and one off a different amp for slightly higher tones. I just replaced the door speakers for standard size but decent brand powered off the pioneer head unit, and then added a couple of amped boxed 6x9 on the mdf shelf I made. It sounded alright, but I effectively took a practical car built to take a wardrobe in the back and by the time I was done you couldn’t fit a box of jonnys in it. Good times, I wish I was a teenager again.
Mark described surface area limitations which was the biggest factor for my application. I have been running (4) 10" subs free air mounted SECURELY in my rear package shelf. I get more surface area than (2) 12s and I still have 90% of my trunk available for storage. I have been running this configuration in the same car for over 20 years!
@@majicogarcia8417 YeP aNd YoUr TwO tWeLvEs StIlL dOnT pLaY aS dEeP aS a SiNgLe FiFtEeN stfu please? you are most likely not even allowed to drive a car legally...
12's are always my number one, but 10's are great too. I've never really had much good luck with anything bigger, but I've also never had a big air space. Good breakdown Mark!
@Rodney Noel 12 is your best all around sounding speaker.. it proven... but JL has taken it a step further with there 13.5... drops low like a 15... but the sound quality is amazing...
@dubb 100 percent... if you read the comment I wrote directly under this one it says.. you should choose a sub woofer that better suits the music you listen to....
Absolutely agree, I ran 2 (12s) the 1st time my sound was done and it definitely hit hard but left a bit to be desired at lower volume levels. Decided to change things up and swapped to 3 (10s) instead and the difference was absolutely insane. Not only because I was able to separate and place the speakers throughout my truck but the actual functionality and sound was much better.
yea and 3 12's would've sounded better than 2 12's. You might've went down to 10's, but you added a sub, so it should sound better. I have a Sundown X15 in my Camaro that hits hard. Yet, the 2 Sundown U12's in my 4 Runner hit harder. 2 good subs will almost always be better than 1. Just like 3 will be better than 2. Even if they are smaller subs.
You didn't have enough amp or it was incorrectly tuned... THERE IS NO SYSTEM with 10s gonna sound better than a properly tuned 15 or 18 ... this fella can't even do math...
One thing extra to consider is also the total trunk volume, sure you can fit a 15" in the trunk if you have the height, but if there's no way for the air to move to the passenger cabin you are simply moving outside vents or trying to move the rear shelf if that is fully enclosed.
Block the flaps behind bumper corners off with foam, prepare to damage trunk latch tho. U get pressure in the cabin. In a carolla anyway. Windshield flex, caused leaks, metal on car body truck literally ripped, roof and back window flex 1/2" on 2 cheap 12's and a low budget Class D with a in dash epicenter Edit: wait? One of my 12s is 60 lbs? 15 pound 12" sub? Are we buying garbage from wal mart?
Ive been using dual 10 inch sub setup since 1999, last year i considered switching to dual 12 inch subs but changed my mind, currently dual shallow subs ive had since 2011
I just did the audio system in my brz. Installed a rectangular, all in 1 under seat sub on the back of the rear seat (brz has very limited space). I wasn't sure how it was going to perform but it actually kicks really nicely. The sound is clean and gives more than enough of a kick for my taste. I was pleasantly surprised at how good a performance that little sub can do
In the mid 90's I worked for a shop and I built my 83 t-bird into a 150 watt class car. I had 8 kicker 8" in a isobaric box. It was a 4 chamber box each .5cuft. it not only hit hard and loud but dropped low. I was running a 25 hcca on the subs and a 100 hcca on my Polk components and hart 6" midbases. Audio control for smoothing and a clarion head unit with the DSP unit. It showed what small subs were able to do. I thought it was the best sounding car I ever owned.
The one thing I can say for your example of having more cone area is that 3 10s is only 10in^2 more than 2 12s which is almost nothing. every other point I think you nailed it. the one thing I can say is that larger subs tend to hit low notes way better so if you want to rattle your car apart bigger is better. if you want clean punchy notes 8-10" subs rock.
I did rattle my car apart, cracks in the bodywork and glass, started with a bargain amp marked up with a wrong price ?, fitted in my Escort MK6 and blew up the six 280w 6x9 speakers I fitted, replaced all with 510w 6x9 and shattered the cones, found another bargain, 15inch 1500w speakers, I fitted two in my parcel shelf and replaced all the 510w 6x9, it worked perfectly, you cannot drive at half volume as it makes your eye wobble, makes a great body massager, I did not have a high range sound meter, only maxed out at 101db but walking away from the car it still measured 101db up to 30 meters away and crystal clear, sometimes too much is not good, RIP Escort 1991 RS2000
Two 12” subs driven by 1000 watts being stuffed in the trunk of a Z24 Cavalier was a defining part of my highschool experience. All the boomy, rattley window shaking goodness. The bass WAS the soundscape and it was hilarious.
Always loved a tri plate of tens as close as you can get them together. Great depth and very tight kick drum. Personally I like the versatility of multi tens.
I'm 48 years old and I have heard and Biltmore systems and I can count and I've came to the same conclusion. Multi tens can't be beat for so many reasons.
only thing to consider is how area is deceptive sometimes. an 10" woofer has an area of 78.5 sq in. a 12" woofer has an area of 113.1 sq in. that means by going up only 2" in diameter, you're getting a 50% increase in cone area. and that's doing the math for a flat circle. this is an even bigger difference when we factor in the cone shape. two 8" woofers is still less cone area than a single 12" woofer. so keep that in mind. the rough math we instinctively want to do is to say 8+8=16, so two 8's must be larger than a single 12, but it ends be up less, and not even by a little either. but i know the takeaway of the video is that small size can mean using a sub where you otherwise couldn't, so i'm not trying to argue against that. i'm just reminding everyone that it's hard to get a feeling for the area of air you move from the diameter of the woofer, as area doesn't scale so intuitively
By far, the best sounding tiny sub is the JL Audio 8w3 in their micro sub ported box. My wife has this on her Outback and it's very impressive. Add the cabin gain and we easily get down to 30Hz wO huge loss. It sounds amazing and only needs 250W For me, I've got the JLA 10W7AE + JLA HD750/1 in their sealed box
i have the tiny 8w3 ported enclosure with a dayton woofer and it blows my mind how well it sounds, even in an RX7 convertible. def some magic in that port!
Subwoofers should pretty much all sound the same when played within specs unless there is a defect in them. Put 10 different quality sub brands behind a curtain, all else (size, box, power, etc) being equal, you'd never guess which one was playing. 40hz is 40hz, 30hz is 30hz, so on and so on. So how can subs sound different? The only difference is loudness due to box design, location in vehicle and power used. If a subwoofer is not performing properly, there is something wrong. Either improper box size, improper location or incorrect power, which can include too little or too much, or a defect. Can't leave out crap brands, of course, but even many of those cheapos will function and sound great when played within their true proper specs, not the glorified specs.
I'm in a 08 extended cab F150 running a single 10" Image Dynamic sub in a down fire truck box on true 400 watts at 2ohm from an old Alpine mono block amplifier. I enjoy the sound from the setup 👍🏻👍🏻
Well smaller is faster..Less note overhang..The faster a sub starts and stops the better the 'Pace Rhythm and Timing ' Nothing worse than a cheap Huge sized sub.. Slow as a wet week with one note bleeding into the next.. horrible.
I have ran 10's for years. I listen to a wide range of music, and have never felt left wanton for anything more. From Kanye to Meshuggah they gave me the sound I was after. In my last install (2014 F-150 SCREW) I ran a pair of JL 10w0-4 in a downfire and ported box. It gave me all that great low end, without washing out the mids and highs. Everything was ran on a 5 channel amp (XD700/5v2). I have since sold that truck, but will be putting the same amp, subs and speakers in my new truck.
I remember a buddy of mine had a small 10” and it hit so hard haha and sounded fantastic I think it was a JL but I don’t exactly remember . Was very impressed with it only running like 500 watts too
Small subwoofers work only inside the closed space of a car where the resonant frequency is 80-100hz. Put those in a living room and they'll be anemic. There is a physical reason why large subs are preferable generally speaking.
One of the loudest and cleanest systems I ever put together, had two Cerwin-Vega 8"s in unusually thick ported truck boxes, that I found at a pawn shop. They lived in the back of an early 90s DSM, so plenty of room to breathe freely. Very fun for the 6-7 months I had them before they were stolen and likely went back to another pawn shop for someone else to find and enjoy... I'm glad that stuff doesn't tend to happen anymore.
@@TerenceGrier Same to you, brother. It sucks when you run across a thief in life. They usually do a decent bit of damage to the car, too. Especially the more professional ones that will attempt to strip everything out. Pretty sure pawn shops aren't allowed to buy audio equipment anymore, but I've never gotten a real straight answer on that. But if a guy walks in your pawn shop with wired speakers hanging over their shoulders and a head unit with a bent up cage still attached to it... it might be stolen.
@@CarsandCats Seriously. We weren't expecting much from the little 8"s, but the more power we fed them, the further jaws started dropping. Even standing back a few steps, the thump was sill in the chest. Quality units.
I built a system for My 2010 Chevy Colorado crew cab. Everywhere I looked people were building boxes to sit in the seat or on the floor between the rear seat and front seats or there was a premade box to fit two 10” but the rear seat needed to be raised an inch or 2. I wanted something that fit under the seat without lifting it. I custom built a box and I put two kicker 8” L7T in it and they both have the minimum air space (I have a better box in the works that allows for more air space and uses more of the available room). I have them powered by a 600watt alpine amp and I have to say they can make my ears hurt. I have never used kicker subs before and I have never used 8” subs before and I have to say I’m extremely happy with my decision to use these.
I'm an audio enthusiast, built some of my own sub boxes for my cars, I also built many stereo speakers, the best set up I ever built is 6X4 inch full range drivers in a a tower config, listeneing to this vid right now on them. Many small driver in a line makes the bass go lower because it mimics the size variable by which I mean it makes a virtually 30 inch woofer sound while being responsive at the same time with no crossover or comb filtering problems.
I always use high end component speakers and a high end 10 inch sub. The only exception is if you have a convertible and you need extra oomph then I run a twelve. I make sure that the twelve has a fast response and can cover lower mid bass just as well so I don't get drop outs in the frequency. I even ran an 8 inch Infinity in my 3000gt VR4 with an all amped system and it sounded fantastic. More than enough especially a hatch.
Great video! There are some awesome 6.5" and 8" subwoofers available. Companies have started catering these smaller subs to fit truck under seat enclosures.
I got 6, 8” Xfire subs with 750W RMS each under the backseat of my truck. At 34Hz I hit 143dB, this was before I got it fully breaker in and tuned on the DSP. I believe it will got a few dB higher by now. It can go very very loud and deep, it does travel far!
i’ve got a single shallow 10 in a sealed downturned enclosure. it’s unbelievably tight for metal kicks and it still pushes enough bass to make 808s sound even.
I agree totally. A 10-inch is very versatile. Mine is a forward-firing sealed 10-inch in my bedroom driven by a monoblock running from a 12-V power supply, and I have the exact same setup for my living room. And they sound fine even at low listening volumes.
I went the super amateur route and bought one of those chinese 8" under-seat subwoofers that come with an installed amp and man i was insanely surprised at how good it sounds. I currently have it in the passenger footwell but im going to move it to the trunk to get a more balanced experience since it's a tad too boomy on my right ear.
Smaller subwoofers also respond more quickly due to less mass of the cone, surround and coil, which is one reason they can sound crisper and less “muddy”. They reproduce the music as recorded more accurately.
Not exactly true, BUT... a lot of big subs do suffer from a bad/cost effective design and often need way bigger boxes than the manufacturer says to perform well. Smaller subs, though... They generally sound "faster" because they lack the true, low bass which both sounds "slow" in itself, plus they excite the room/cabin in a totally different way than small subs (high energy, low frequency). If you want true
I did an experiment with my 12" and my 18" subwoofers at home, both playing at reference levels, the 12" had a bit of movement while my 18" hardly did. That means the larger subwoofer had a better transient response than the smaller one. Plus the fact that it was able to play lower frequencies with ease.
This a long time fallacy. This is not due to a function of mass, but rather inductance. The reason the smaller woofer from any particular line of drivers may appear faster is due to the smaller coils used on the smaller speakers. Smaller coil = lower inductance. Build that same 8 to withstand higher wattage, and you will see the inductance rise accordingly. As the inductance rises, transient response (what you are referring to) worsens.
Got a good deal recently from a friend on a 8 inch sundown in a custom ported box tuned to 35hz and bought a walmart power acoustik amp. It has the cleanest bass I've ever heard from any sub I've ever had even cranked to high volume 85-90% and has no distortion what so ever. I highly recommend sundown, little on the expensive side but totally worth it.
@@thomasnelson213 I'm kinda new to this stuff, but for my taste I'd say my 12" 400w rms sub sealed hits hard too, even at low volumes... idk if thats just me or my car but I love it
As a beat maker, there’s a reason why most club PA subs are 18”. The resonant peak frequency is around 50Hz. Most kicks are tuned around that frequency +\- 10Hz Larger diameter speakers can peak at lower frequencies. Period. Human hearing doesn’t get much below 20Hz tho. But as far as moving air, sure you can feel it. Smaller subs w/ baffling will have a shorter decay/tighter response though. So if you listen to drum n bass or metal, then yeah, maybe an array of 10”s would be better for you. There’s no right or wrong- just application-like the guy says
I like 12's and my setup now is a NVX V2 12" with a Belva 3000 watt amplifier, also a NVX Bass Reconstruction processor. It actually sound alot better than i expected and the box is not ported.
The other thing is whether you want to install subs to hear and feel them or if you want to install subs to annoy everyone around you. the lower a frequency, the more distance it takes for that wave to fully develop. 10's or 12's will be more efficient in producing frequencies that are both: in the frequency band of music, and actually fully develop inside the car. 15's and 18's are more efficient at producing frequencies that will only develop outside the car. My personal preference has always been 12's. I think they strike the best balance between going super deep, and adding more musical punch. 10's will do in a cramped cargo space or in a stealth application, and it's much better to have a 10 with proper box dimensions than a 12 that's jammed into a smaller box than intended. But if you have the space, IMO 12's are the best in a car, even in a 2-12 vs. 3-10 area.
I agree with what you’re saying here. I use the term wavelength though. You hear the sound at the end of the wavelength. If the wavelength is longer than the car, it sounds better outside the car.
@@OxBlitzkriegxONot at the expense of Speed or Overhang..Larger subs generally go lower but don't stop and start at good as a small driver..Big subs great for Synth stuff ..Not for Bass Guitar though
@@bryanwilliams3665 just....no. you have NO IDEA what youre talking about, lmao. this larger subwoofer speed thing is just as cringe as people thinking you need backpressure in an exhaust system for cars. so. many. ignorant. people. if you have "speed" or "overhang" problems, it because you designed the box poorly or youre using the incorrect sub for the application, nothing more. stop being stupid and educate yourself.
For me there’s nothing like the sound from an infinite baffle set up. It’s light weight, space saving design and pure bass enjoyment is all I need. Who care about the numbers. My #1 choice.
I have a Rockford fosgate p300 8p 8 inch 350w combo unit that I installed myself and it’s a nice thumper with a decent knob and the sub is held down with a really strong Velcro
I made a super simple short flat underseat box with 4 8s for my 87 C10 and holy moly is it a monster. I honestly have never seriously driven around with it set to max for anything other than messing around.
@@-OokySpooky- I'm looking at building one for my '67 do you happen to have any pictures of yours as a referent? Because all I've got is underneath the seat and behind the seat where the fuel tank used to be
I usually go with a single 10 (or even a quality 8") for a few reasons... 1) I'm not 18 years old anymore, 2) a single 10 with a good amp sounds good enough for me and 3) I'm not interested in attracting enough attention that results in my windows being smashed in the middle of the night. Also, I was bumping comp 12's in the late 90's in a custom BOX (in a CRX) so it's interesting to me that everyone is now calling them "enclosures ". Lol. It's literally a Box
BAck in the 80s-90s I Ran 6 G&S Red Line 8s on 2 US Amps .... Kicked ass for many a year, wasn't a huge bass monster compared to 15s but they were tight snappy and low. FFWD today running 2 MoJO 61/2s in slot loaded box, 2 1/2 thick baffle on 3K in my Sequoia. Sounds very musical and will go big bass when needed.
So I have a question. Are there any advantages or disadvantages to running two subwoofers in the same box within the same chamber or is it always better to put a dividing wall between the 2? I was thinking about what you said about surface area and theoretically if both of those are in the same chamber would two 12-inch subs perform like it's a 24 inch subwoofer seeing that you have more cone surface area in the box? Or does it not make a difference in just leads to distortion or something else that just doesn't sound good?
I have a single 8" in a closed box (my preference back in the day because I used to think ported designs sound boomy and muddy). It's a mid-size sedan and the sub is in the trunk. With ~300W of amplification it's perfectly capable of volume that's uncomfortable, i. e. more than I need, and digs deep (down to 24 Hz at least) with my DSP settings. It's not perfect and I want to try something else, but it's very good, and for the price - it's awesome!
Hi Mark, I enjoy watching your videos. It sure would be nice to see some fresh videos. For example, how to set up an amplifier that is oversized for the load. A 500w rms sub and an 800w+ rms amp. Or tips on determining the crossover points when using 6 1/2” mids, tweeters, and 8” in the front doors along with one 10” or 12” sub in the rear. Or tips on incorporating a subwoofer enclosure into a custom center console.
You always want a sub that is 50%-100% more wattage than the speakers or subs you are driving. The reason, you can adjust the "Gain" knob on the amplifier's power. Generally, it is good to supply 90%-80% of RMS wattage to speakers so you do not damage them, or get distortion. By using a stronger amp and turning its power back, means the amp will run cooler and not work as hard. This again will help with distortion, but also the longevity of your amp. Heat is the worse thing for amplifiers and their long term performance. If it is possible adding a computer fan to blow air over your amp (if it doesn't already have one) is a great way to help keep the amp cool as well. Simply tie into the amp's remote start wire for the fan's power wire, and make sure to get a 12 volt fan and the fan will turn on when your amp does. Even a little bit of cool air will greatly help an amplifier. Computer fans are the best as they run the quietest. So in your case of a 500w sub and an 800 watt amp. Simply adjust your Gain control knob on the amp to about the 1 - 2 o'clock position and you should be fine. And that is a great set up to power your sub, and not overwork your amp. So you are already on the right track. Peace.
1 other thing: make sure you use large enough speaker wiring for your sub. And you don't necessarily have to buy a particular size wire, you can double up on smaller gauge wire to make the connections. just make sure the ends of the two wires are connected together before installing on the amp and sub. Best to solder instead of using "crimp" type connections for connecting the ends. In fact, it is always best to solder connections than any other type of connection. It really isn't that hard to do these days, and they even make battery operated soldering irons for convenience.
You always want to use an amplifier with more power than the speakers. Generally twice the amount, or a little less. That way you set the Gain Knob around 50-60%. 500 watt Sub, 1000 or in your case 800W amp. That way the amplifier doesn't work to hard, overheat and burn out early on ya. In your case 500w sub, and a 800 w amp, set the Gain around 2 o'clock, and you should be fine. Perfect actually. (if I already commented on this sorry, just smoked one. lol).
I replaced a dual 12 ported premade kicker box with a homemade sealed single 8, cause I'm old now. I enjoy the better frequency response and only vibrates half the interior panels.
I have always preferred 8s or 10s for everyday listening, and 12's and 15s are better for pure SPL. My personal favorite are 8s overall for mostly the ability to better CONTROL them, but I find 10's make a great compromise and can often be used in small space situations, and 12s make great loudness when space and power aren't a factor.
That's not how decent subs work. Larger subs only sound worse if the motor is too weak. As long as it's a decently built sub, the size doesn't affect the sound.
Yeah, total MYTH BS! Better control? Nonsense!! You really think quality brand speaker companies would make larger subs if they couldn't accurately produce the proper sounds? GMAFB.
I once heard a hatchback car with 8 8" woofers in a baffle board , and I was impressed . That in itself wouldn't mean much , except I owned 2 car audio stores and had not only built thousands of systems but heard even many more . No one ever remembered my name so they started calling me Boxman I built and sold thousands of enclosures to many car stereo stores all over the East half of Texas and West half of Louisiana in the heyday of big boom . My stores were named Sound-Tex . So that being said my being impressed with something so simple had to be pretty impressive .
I would like to experiment with every subwoofer size/system to my liking 15s are by far my favorite I’m working on some 8s currently though. I’ve heard plenty of 12 set ups all impressive. I honestly feel like this is all just an enclosure debate for all of these along with cone area.
I"ve always liked 10's due to their tight and punchy sound. I'm currently running a JL 900/5 with a Focal PS165FXE component set and a JL 10W6V3 in a sealed enclosure.
Agreed all my cousins had 15s and like 3 12s and I was in my girls car and she had one 10inch kicker and great tweeters and it sounded so good like it was crisp the bass hit perfectly like it didn’t overwhelm ya know? Like 10s or even 8s I think are perfect
Total MYTH! All sub sizes can produce tight punchy bass. If one isn't, the box was clearly designed out of spec to get a different effect from the sub. As for "didn't overwhelm", it's called a bass knob or EQ to turn the bass down if need be.
The best sub ( and system overall ) were my Infinity CS1a speakers. I worked with Infinity to create a box for the subs that were meant to be free air. Many people thought I had a much bigger system.
I used to think the bigger the sub the deeper the bass but boy was I wrong. I had a center console style box built for my extended cab Silverado and didn’t have enough room for 12s or even 10s so we went with 2 8” 1200w subs and the bass hits so low and clean sounding.. it totally switched everything up on how I thought subs worked. It’s really got a lot to do with the subs enclosure on how it sounds.
Of course you need the proper air space for a larger sub to work properly. Your experience has no bearing on the fact larger subs produce deeper bass than smaller subs. Your situation was a vehicle issue, not a sub issue.
And the "Speed" of the cone..Large cones are generally sluggish negatively impacting the Pace Rhythm and Timing of the music..They don't start and stop instantly.. The main reason 18" subs are used in concert stadiums is to throw Bass hundreds of yards to the back..Not so much for the frequencies. Similarly horns are used for the treble ,not because they sound good but because a superior sounding conventional tweeters sound only travels a few feet.Horns transmit sound much longer distances.
If your 12 was a square you would have a cone area of 144 inches. 2 10"s would give you a cone area of 200 inches. If it is a choice of one 12" v 2 10's I would go with the 2 10's all the time. Now if it is 2 12's that is a different case altogether.
@@dman09191964 2x10's is perfect. If you go above that you're not doing it for the music... you're doing some show off type stuff (which two 10's is perfectly capable of. two 10's get's ridiculous. Two 12's sounds silly/obnoxious.).
@@urwholefamilydied I agree with you 100%. I've always had 2 10"s in my vehicles. Currently have 2 Q class 10's(Kicker) in my Ford Focus ST. It is in a custom box with subs facing up, port facing rear. I have 2000 watts RMS pushing them and it takes all of those watts no problem. I thought about going 2 12's but it would have been in a sealed box. I really believe 2 12's in a sealed box would be very musical. As for ported enclosures 2 10's every time.
@@urwholefamilydied you're wrong sir! Size won't make noticeable difference in sound if you go with well researched quality products. Your opinion is probably based on using some cheap gears.
I'm now going to a 8" Focal Bomba BP20. In order to get really balanced sound and at the same tame precise, very low frequencies, having a big sub with a lot of power can't give you a good sound at a level that doesn't leave you deaf. I had SPL oriented systems before and right know I aim to quality, not quantity.
I had 2 x 15inch subs in a hatchback in the 90s. One in the boot, one on the back seat and the music sounded Deep, Immersive and super clear with 6 mid range speakers running on another amp. Used to set off building alarms in the cbd lol. I hate smaller subs because I hate punch bass as it hurts my ears when song is turned up. I like super low frequencies so I can feel the song.
I will always choose a single 15 over two or three 8's. I'm not into SPL, it's just a personal preference as I enjoy deep sub bass that smaller subs simply cannot reproduce.
i beg to differ. i have 2 8"s that will blow SOME single 15"s away. it depends greatly on the speaker and the box. im hitting 28Hz out of 8"s and its very tight and accurate on the 40-70hz notes. my brother has a single 12 that is dropping bombs. he is floating bags and pulling hair tricks with 1 12", and honestly its pretty tight too. my goal is different than SPL, I want ACCURATE reproduction across the entire range (20-20,000) but trust me the right speakers makes ALL the difference.
@@CarsandCats - It willnot. You aren’t taking into consideration the material, the weight, the xmax, servo vs non servo, sealed vs non sealed, box design and other factors like multiple speakers not being as precise as a single speaker. Too many of you are just repeating what you you heard others say.
The original polk SDAs were rated at 18 hz with multiple 6 inch drivers . the bass was the fastest and cleanest i've ever heard and this was accomplished without a sub . the speed of the bass was astonishing . you could clearly hear the beginning and ending of each note with no overlap like is sometimes the case with big woofers .
Mark, is there a difference in sound profile of multiple smaller subs vs one larger one? (Assuming similar cone area and enclosure type) or is the bass pretty much the same no matter the sub size as long as cone area and enclosure type is similar?
Definitely a very different sound profile, multiple smaller drivers almost always sound way tighter and punch harder, and louder longer because more coils can take more abuse. You can also fit more active surface area using multiple smaller than a single larger for all these reasons it's Superior
The problem of subwoofers is the bigger the speaker, the bigger the delay of the mepbrane and the less tight and less accurate the bass is. 8inch is best for small cars, 10inch for sedans and cabrio. 12inch for station wagons. Use 2 subwoofers for high spl.
This is my experience as well. My friend's 8s in a ford ranger hit as hard as my 12s in a wagon or 10s in an impala. Although I had another friend who fit 3x 12s in a hatch, and we couldn't even hear the music. It was all bass.
I've gotten into smaller subs a bit more recently. Ive got 3 6.5 subs now, probably going to make 3 separate enclosures, already made one. The 6.5 inch car subs available have a ridiculous amount of motor compared to their cone area making them attractive for what im doing
Hey Mark! I see you have quite a gap around that 13w7. I can see a nice press fit ring to lock around the clamp ring, and a custom grill over the sub. But that's my mind at work.
I remember a coworker of mine decades ago had 2 8's in a Ford Ranger. Man, you could of sworn he had at least 2 10"s in there the way those subs hit, I was definitely impressed.
I have owned hundreds of subwoofers and the best cheap system I had was with 4-10 inch punch subs powered with an Alpine V12. I started with two, then moved to three and four. I compared them on the same amp with a single 12 inch JL W6, two 12in kicker golds and a 15 inch SoundStream 160. The 15 was almost louder but the 4 cheap 10’s dominated. These days I just have an 8inch punch sub in a 35hz ported box.
My personal preference is 12 inch subs in a sedan because it’s the sweet spot. 2 12s at 3000 rms combined will slap even in a sealed enclosure. Sealed enclosure take up less trunk space and is a fool proof way to get amazing SQ. As for ported boxes they can get amazing SQ if built properly to match the subwoofer driver specifically and tuned nice and low.
The 10W7 because of it's higher VAS (Liters), lower Fs (Hz), and most important, it's higher XMAX (at 23mm of Excursion versus only 19mm with the 8W7). Besides, later when you can afford it, you can step up to a JL-HD750 and run that 10W7 like it's meant to be ran! 💪🏻💪🏻🔊
I have been a bass player for 42 years and have used 18.15,12 and 10 inch cabs. The issue with bass is the distance it takes to mature. If i play on a small stage I will use the 10 inch cabs this because a larger speaker would not be audible close to it, I would need to be 8 feet or more distance from the cab to hear it sufficiently to monitor my sound. I am opting for an 8 inch cab to utilise this principle on stage and perhaps even using two 6.5 inch subs in my car as this principle is the same.. short distance smaller diameter subs.
Advantages of smaller subwoofers - smaller boxes with deep bass; good if you're building a horn. Disadvantages: More expensive for the same output, heavier for the same output, generally less sensitivity. Advantage of large subwoofers: Easier to create deep notes efficiently if you have the room, usually more excursion and output for the price. Disadvantages: Some models the electrical Q can be higher than optimal, need a larger box or you'll get mostly midbass boom in an undersized box. How high they can play is usually not about size but about cone mass relative to size. Box size isn't directly proportional to woofer size even if there is correlation, and sometimes a smaller woofer from one brand with less BL and electrical Q can need a larger box than a bigger woofer from another brand.
Cone size is but one small aspect of subwoofer design and construction. As you pointed out, having the right enclosure for a given sub is one of the most important details. That being said, I find ~12-13" subwoofers to be the sweet spot in many applications. 10" and smaller subs are far harder to get super deep bass out of. It's possible, but much harder. Good 12-13" subs can maintain their output down to 20hz fairly easily in the right applications, while 15"+ subs often don't sounds as clean and end up being super massive to have the right enclosure sizing.
That's why i choose MASSIVE summo 8" subs! For my HYUNDAI KONA ,to heavy for bigger zubs and space, im not a pro car audio ,but just a simple bass make me happy❤
If I could afford a w13 that is the way I'd go. Audio control and jl audio in a system will never disappoint. I'm happy with my cheaper crap, 151 on a 3k amp isn't horrible
counterpoint to your 10" subwoofer in the 32x13" space, I had similar limitation (14" x 30) , i opted for dual 12" so I could run a ported box with the ports facing forwards. and the enclosures tuned for 25hz. I felt I could get better low frequency response than 3 x 10" running fully enclosed.
I can definitely say from experience that smaller subs can hit hard in the right box. I had a friend that had 2 10"s in a bandpass box in the back of a Mitsubishi Mirage coupe. Man, I don't know what kind of subs she had, but that system was banging the hell out of that car. If I put another system in my own ride, I wouldn't hesitate to go with a couple of 10"s for sure.
I have an 8inch , soft spider, low spring constant in a vented enclosure for the car and for house, I got five 12inches car subwoofers and one 18 inches pa system LF driver.
My 2021 civic.. has 6 10 inch phoenix gold sx series subs [sealed], 2 phoenix gold 1200.1 sx series amps, and 4 xs power batteries. Civics booty a little sagging 😅 and yes still stock alt..😢 thanks for the uploads always watching
I always ended up returning to small /sealed with some EQ. I just run 4 of them to achieve desired SPL levels. I get cleaner bass and mid bass. granted I also include 1.5" thick walls. My best sounding systems included this small sub method.
I recently swapped my old 12" Kicker Comp-C (ported box) for an Eton Force 10" (closed enclosure). Bass instantly got much cleaner. I'm also going to replace my AS Carbon 500.1D amp for a JL Audio JX1000.1D for further upgrades and for having a little extra power so I don't have to turn up the gain to max level.
been running a triple 10 box for the last 3 years, and i dont know if i could use something else now since i have really enjoyed how versatile this setup can be with the right drivers and amp. some eq may be needed for the super lows in a sealed box but its not too bad, and you get to keep all the snappy bass of the smaller speakers. dont try to tell me that big large speakers can have snap, i can assure you the 12w7 does not. smaller + more of them = better.
Smaller + more does not always equal better, just more appropriate for your particular needs is all. Do you honestly think high end speaker companies would make larger subwoofers if they couldn't function properly? Yes, that includes being "snappy", whatever that actually means to you. I assume you mean fast and quick. Yes, larger subs are plenty "snappy", but you are welcome to deny it all you want, those of us who know better will continue on just fine without your approval.
I like big subs and i cannot lie
You other brothers can't deny
Same
😂
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe lol XD😭🤣🤣🤣🤣
You like the 12in ;)
Sorry, this vid just came up in my timeline. 35ish years ago, I was at a 'car stereo competition' as a spectator. There was a guy with a regular two seat cab pick up truck. In the narrow space between the back wall of the cab and the back of the seats, there was a speaker box. The top couldn't have been more than 6"s wide. On the top were 6-8 tiny little 4" speakers poking out. To this day, I can't for the life of me understand how those little speakers produce sooooo much bass! This truck absolutely thumped!!!
@@mitchblackmore5230 the quality of the speakers is all the difference...
That's what I just thought but if you get 2 15 inch subwoofer s the same exact model and quality the 15 inch subs will hit harder@@Rico702Vegas
@@mitchblackmore5230 bet that was his mids. & He had a port cut through the cab with a blow through and had the big subs in the bed.
The most underrated subwoofer is a 8", I have had everything under the sun, 4-15's, 4-12's, 2-15's, 2-12's, 1-12, some different 10" setups, but now for a beautiful well balanced sound and still good bass, I would take two high quality 8's!
It all depends on the design of the subs and your personal taste. Larger subs in smaller sealed boxes under high power will change your mind. I just heard 4 12s in a small sealed box powered by a 5k amp and I was stunned.
Yes. It's far easier to control the cone at 8" than it is at 12".
(2) Memphis MOJO mini 8"
Nice and punchy for double bass.
@@CarsandCats - It is not. You aren’t taking into consideration the material, the weight, the xmax, servo vs non servo, sealed vs non sealed, box design and other factors. Too many of you are just repeating what you you heard others say.
Ran two 8" and four 6.5" Sundown Audio Subwoofers in my vehicle and was blown away with how much bass extension I was able to get without loosing my entire cargo capacity. Small hatchback vehicles are very useful as long as you are filling the hatch full of subwoofer box. I was able to stuff the 6 subs in each corner, each in their own sealed boxes. Ran them on a single two channel amp... all said an done, still had full access to the cargo area, and got a huge amount of bass when compared to the stock system sound.
I've been a huge fan of 10s for years now. My last setup had two 10" drivers and two 10" passive radiators... sounded amazing for just about everything I listened to, and fit behind the rear seat in my crew cab truck.
what subwoofer did you use? i love subwoofers with passive radiators, running 1 now, but want to run 2 subwoofers
The box is too big for a 12". 8" don't produce enough bass. 10's are perfect.
@@michaelculhane7227
What brand you using and model
Sounds legit!
That setup would fry listening to Dark Side of the Moon....
The main reason I prefer one subwoofer over many is weight.
For my daily driver, I love as lightweight as possible and cramming six 10” subwoofers each with a 30lb magnet is not good compared to just one 2000 watt 18” with a one 30lb magnet. It’s a huge weight difference.
But of coarse that’s just my personal preference for my daily driver. If I had a dedicated SPL vehicle, then I’d wouldn’t care much. Thank goodness for neo subs but DAMN they can be expensive!
Furthermore, I don’t use heavy boxes. I use sonotube which I can lift with one finger but is strong enough to withstand a lot of pressure.
Many years ago i owned a 2000 Volvo C70 hard top. Once i saw how the 12 speaker sound system was (installed from the factory) i stopped buying big subs. The Volvo used a components layout using 8"subs with a tweeter throughout the car totaling 12 speakers. It sounded great. I follow this layout with any car i make for myself. You get big sound and you still have practical storage space in the truck and thought the vehicle.
You make your own cars?
@@HardCold-Alquan correction...modify
Do you have any link with a video showcasing a car being modified with that kind of sound system please? Thanks!
@@JaimeCarlosCamacho i don't know a video of link showing how Volvo laid out their system, but maybe you can Google search the sound system of a factory 2000 C70 coupe.
I used to have a V70 t5 back in the day.
It had 4x12 dual coil subs. 3 off a mono bock in series parallel at 2.66 for lows and one off a different amp for slightly higher tones. I just replaced the door speakers for standard size but decent brand powered off the pioneer head unit, and then added a couple of amped boxed 6x9 on the mdf shelf I made.
It sounded alright, but I effectively took a practical car built to take a wardrobe in the back and by the time I was done you couldn’t fit a box of jonnys in it. Good times, I wish I was a teenager again.
Mark described surface area limitations which was the biggest factor for my application. I have been running (4) 10" subs free air mounted SECURELY in my rear package shelf. I get more surface area than (2) 12s and I still have 90% of my trunk available for storage. I have been running this configuration in the same car for over 20 years!
Yep and your 4 tens still dont play as deep as the 2 twelves.
@@majicogarcia8417 YeP aNd YoUr TwO tWeLvEs StIlL dOnT pLaY aS dEeP aS a SiNgLe FiFtEeN
stfu please? you are most likely not even allowed to drive a car legally...
12's are always my number one, but 10's are great too. I've never really had much good luck with anything bigger, but I've also never had a big air space. Good breakdown Mark!
Me too, however I’ve been noticing JL audio with 13’s now.
@Rodney Noel 12 is your best all around sounding speaker.. it proven... but JL has taken it a step further with there 13.5... drops low like a 15... but the sound quality is amazing...
@@thomasstott527 not for techno , house or any dance music. 12s are very boomy
@dubb 100 percent... if you read the comment I wrote directly under this one it says.. you should choose a sub woofer that better suits the music you listen to....
@@dubb9020 - They are not. It depends on the speaker and the enclosure.
Absolutely agree, I ran 2 (12s) the 1st time my sound was done and it definitely hit hard but left a bit to be desired at lower volume levels. Decided to change things up and swapped to 3 (10s) instead and the difference was absolutely insane. Not only because I was able to separate and place the speakers throughout my truck but the actual functionality and sound was much better.
Needed better equipment... my two 15" Rockford Fosgates sounded crisper than any multi small woofer setup...
yea and 3 12's would've sounded better than 2 12's. You might've went down to 10's, but you added a sub, so it should sound better. I have a Sundown X15 in my Camaro that hits hard. Yet, the 2 Sundown U12's in my 4 Runner hit harder. 2 good subs will almost always be better than 1. Just like 3 will be better than 2. Even if they are smaller subs.
It's because you added 8 inches of Cone area to push the air harder
You didn't have enough amp or it was incorrectly tuned... THERE IS NO SYSTEM with 10s gonna sound better than a properly tuned 15 or 18 ... this fella can't even do math...
One thing extra to consider is also the total trunk volume, sure you can fit a 15" in the trunk if you have the height, but if there's no way for the air to move to the passenger cabin you are simply moving outside vents or trying to move the rear shelf if that is fully enclosed.
Block the flaps behind bumper corners off with foam, prepare to damage trunk latch tho. U get pressure in the cabin. In a carolla anyway. Windshield flex, caused leaks, metal on car body truck literally ripped, roof and back window flex 1/2" on 2 cheap 12's and a low budget Class D with a in dash epicenter
Edit: wait? One of my 12s is 60 lbs? 15 pound 12" sub? Are we buying garbage from wal mart?
Infinite baffle
True 8 inch hits harder in small cars. Because the length of the wave and distance it takes to cross the wave
@cheristratton the length of wave is determined by what frequency the speaker is outputting
It's all about cone area, the more air you push the louder it will be
@@cheristratton I went with 4 10s rather than two fifteens. Easier to drive and they sound more accurate--to me anyway.
Ive been using dual 10 inch sub setup since 1999, last year i considered switching to dual 12 inch subs but changed my mind, currently dual shallow subs ive had since 2011
I just did the audio system in my brz. Installed a rectangular, all in 1 under seat sub on the back of the rear seat (brz has very limited space). I wasn't sure how it was going to perform but it actually kicks really nicely. The sound is clean and gives more than enough of a kick for my taste. I was pleasantly surprised at how good a performance that little sub can do
In the mid 90's I worked for a shop and I built my 83 t-bird into a 150 watt class car. I had 8 kicker 8" in a isobaric box. It was a 4 chamber box each .5cuft. it not only hit hard and loud but dropped low. I was running a 25 hcca on the subs and a 100 hcca on my Polk components and hart 6" midbases. Audio control for smoothing and a clarion head unit with the DSP unit. It showed what small subs were able to do. I thought it was the best sounding car I ever owned.
The one thing I can say for your example of having more cone area is that 3 10s is only 10in^2 more than 2 12s which is almost nothing. every other point I think you nailed it.
the one thing I can say is that larger subs tend to hit low notes way better so if you want to rattle your car apart bigger is better. if you want clean punchy notes 8-10" subs rock.
I have 6 outa 8 😂
Going by the 15” v 10” comparison graph the 15” will be louder …
@@rfgate u wouldn't need a graph..1 15" sub would or should be louder than a 10" sub..
100 percent correct...
I did rattle my car apart, cracks in the bodywork and glass, started with a bargain amp marked up with a wrong price ?, fitted in my Escort MK6 and blew up the six 280w 6x9 speakers I fitted, replaced all with 510w 6x9 and shattered the cones, found another bargain, 15inch 1500w speakers, I fitted two in my parcel shelf and
replaced all the 510w 6x9, it worked perfectly, you cannot drive at half volume as it makes your eye wobble, makes a great body massager, I did not have a high range sound meter, only maxed out at 101db but walking away from the car it still measured 101db up to 30 meters away and crystal clear, sometimes too much is not good, RIP Escort 1991 RS2000
Two 12” subs driven by 1000 watts being stuffed in the trunk of a Z24 Cavalier was a defining part of my highschool experience. All the boomy, rattley window shaking goodness. The bass WAS the soundscape and it was hilarious.
Always loved a tri plate of tens as close as you can get them together. Great depth and very tight kick drum.
Personally I like the versatility of multi tens.
I'm 48 years old and I have heard and Biltmore systems and I can count and I've came to the same conclusion. Multi tens can't be beat for so many reasons.
I've got an JL Audio 10W1V3 in a 17l closed box over years powered on a 420W rms class d amp and i love this little beast so much!
only thing to consider is how area is deceptive sometimes. an 10" woofer has an area of 78.5 sq in. a 12" woofer has an area of 113.1 sq in. that means by going up only 2" in diameter, you're getting a 50% increase in cone area. and that's doing the math for a flat circle. this is an even bigger difference when we factor in the cone shape. two 8" woofers is still less cone area than a single 12" woofer. so keep that in mind. the rough math we instinctively want to do is to say 8+8=16, so two 8's must be larger than a single 12, but it ends be up less, and not even by a little either. but i know the takeaway of the video is that small size can mean using a sub where you otherwise couldn't, so i'm not trying to argue against that. i'm just reminding everyone that it's hard to get a feeling for the area of air you move from the diameter of the woofer, as area doesn't scale so intuitively
I heard 1- 8 inch Sub Sound like 4-12's and was blown away!! Was at a Sound Off Contest.🔈🔊🎼🎵🎶🚘
@@jonathanrichard6881 A really good box makes aaaaaaaall the difference.
By far, the best sounding tiny sub is the JL Audio 8w3 in their micro sub ported box.
My wife has this on her Outback and it's very impressive. Add the cabin gain and we easily get down to 30Hz wO huge loss.
It sounds amazing and only needs 250W
For me, I've got the JLA 10W7AE + JLA HD750/1 in their sealed box
i have the tiny 8w3 ported enclosure with a dayton woofer and it blows my mind how well it sounds, even in an RX7 convertible. def some magic in that port!
Subwoofers should pretty much all sound the same when played within specs unless there is a defect in them. Put 10 different quality sub brands behind a curtain, all else (size, box, power, etc) being equal, you'd never guess which one was playing. 40hz is 40hz, 30hz is 30hz, so on and so on. So how can subs sound different? The only difference is loudness due to box design, location in vehicle and power used. If a subwoofer is not performing properly, there is something wrong. Either improper box size, improper location or incorrect power, which can include too little or too much, or a defect. Can't leave out crap brands, of course, but even many of those cheapos will function and sound great when played within their true proper specs, not the glorified specs.
I have two 8w3 in a under seat box in my truck and man they hit hard
I'm in a 08 extended cab F150 running a single 10" Image Dynamic sub in a down fire truck box on true 400 watts at 2ohm from an old Alpine mono block amplifier. I enjoy the sound from the setup 👍🏻👍🏻
I've always liked 8s or 10s smaller is also more responsive
That's a myth. It depends on the weight of the cone combined with the magnet strength.
and some people like 6.5 because punchy bass/ dynamic of music. less weight from cone. i could never understand until recently
Well smaller is faster..Less note overhang..The faster a sub starts and stops the better the 'Pace Rhythm and Timing '
Nothing worse than a cheap Huge sized sub.. Slow as a wet week with one note bleeding into the next.. horrible.
I have ran 10's for years. I listen to a wide range of music, and have never felt left wanton for anything more. From Kanye to Meshuggah they gave me the sound I was after.
In my last install (2014 F-150 SCREW) I ran a pair of JL 10w0-4 in a downfire and ported box. It gave me all that great low end, without washing out the mids and highs. Everything was ran on a 5 channel amp (XD700/5v2). I have since sold that truck, but will be putting the same amp, subs and speakers in my new truck.
I remember a buddy of mine had a small 10” and it hit so hard haha and sounded fantastic I think it was a JL but I don’t exactly remember . Was very impressed with it only running like 500 watts too
It was probably a Alpine Type R! Those 10s slam so hard on 500w
JL Audio 10W3s or W6s sound amazing and hit hard too
I’ve had a JL 3-10 setup before and to date is still the best sounding setup I’ve had….
Small subwoofers work only inside the closed space of a car where the resonant frequency is 80-100hz. Put those in a living room and they'll be anemic. There is a physical reason why large subs are preferable generally speaking.
One of the loudest and cleanest systems I ever put together, had two Cerwin-Vega 8"s in unusually thick ported truck boxes, that I found at a pawn shop. They lived in the back of an early 90s DSM, so plenty of room to breathe freely. Very fun for the 6-7 months I had them before they were stolen and likely went back to another pawn shop for someone else to find and enjoy... I'm glad that stuff doesn't tend to happen anymore.
I just had my subs stolen, so this hits close to home
Sorry that happened to you
@@TerenceGrier Same to you, brother. It sucks when you run across a thief in life. They usually do a decent bit of damage to the car, too. Especially the more professional ones that will attempt to strip everything out. Pretty sure pawn shops aren't allowed to buy audio equipment anymore, but I've never gotten a real straight answer on that. But if a guy walks in your pawn shop with wired speakers hanging over their shoulders and a head unit with a bent up cage still attached to it... it might be stolen.
The bigger the box 📦 the heavier it is to steal
Oh man, back in the early 90's I had CV 10's. I loved those subs so much. I even had them refoamed and used them for a few more years.
@@CarsandCats Seriously. We weren't expecting much from the little 8"s, but the more power we fed them, the further jaws started dropping. Even standing back a few steps, the thump was sill in the chest. Quality units.
I built a system for
My 2010 Chevy Colorado crew cab. Everywhere I looked people were building boxes to sit in the seat or on the floor between the rear seat and front seats or there was a premade box to fit two 10” but the rear seat needed to be raised an inch or 2. I wanted something that fit under the seat without lifting it. I custom built a box and I put two kicker 8” L7T in it and they both have the minimum air space (I have a better box in the works that allows for more air space and uses more of the available room). I have them powered by a 600watt alpine amp and I have to say they can make my ears hurt. I have never used kicker subs before and I have never used 8” subs before and I have to say I’m extremely happy with my decision to use these.
Personally I find 8" to 15" all sound good, but there's many factors that come into play, as to what is best for the given use.
Music type and placement
@@stevesnodgrass7434 Pretty much
I'm an audio enthusiast, built some of my own sub boxes for my cars, I also built many stereo speakers, the best set up I ever built is 6X4 inch full range drivers in a a tower config, listeneing to this vid right now on them. Many small driver in a line makes the bass go lower because it mimics the size variable by which I mean it makes a virtually 30 inch woofer sound while being responsive at the same time with no crossover or comb filtering problems.
I always use high end component speakers and a high end 10 inch sub. The only exception is if you have a convertible and you need extra oomph then I run a twelve. I make sure that the twelve has a fast response and can cover lower mid bass just as well so I don't get drop outs in the frequency. I even ran an 8 inch Infinity in my 3000gt VR4 with an all amped system and it sounded fantastic. More than enough especially a hatch.
Hi! Which model of infinity do you have, and which enclosure?
@@Echtius Kappa and Kappa perfect are usually the products I use.
@@joshuasterling2144 thanks for your answer 🙂, Kappa is a great series from Harman group, love them also!
What he said about how much subs weigh was way off. Some subs have hugh magnets and some don't
Great video! There are some awesome 6.5" and 8" subwoofers available. Companies have started catering these smaller subs to fit truck under seat enclosures.
I got 6, 8” Xfire subs with 750W RMS each under the backseat of my truck. At 34Hz I hit 143dB, this was before I got it fully breaker in and tuned on the DSP. I believe it will got a few dB higher by now. It can go very very loud and deep, it does travel far!
i’ve got a single shallow 10 in a sealed downturned enclosure. it’s unbelievably tight for metal kicks and it still pushes enough bass to make 808s sound even.
I agree totally. A 10-inch is very versatile. Mine is a forward-firing sealed 10-inch in my bedroom driven by a monoblock running from a 12-V power supply, and I have the exact same setup for my living room. And they sound fine even at low listening volumes.
Cone area and air space are why I run 3 10s sealed instead of 2 12s ported in the daily. Still leaves me with 2/3 of my trunk space for groceries.
I went the super amateur route and bought one of those chinese 8" under-seat subwoofers that come with an installed amp and man i was insanely surprised at how good it sounds.
I currently have it in the passenger footwell but im going to move it to the trunk to get a more balanced experience since it's a tad too boomy on my right ear.
Mind sharing the one you chose?
Smaller subwoofers also respond more quickly due to less mass of the cone, surround and coil, which is one reason they can sound crisper and less “muddy”. They reproduce the music as recorded more accurately.
That isn’t true! It’s all how the system is designed. Look up “80” subwoofer” and look at the numbers.
Not exactly true, BUT... a lot of big subs do suffer from a bad/cost effective design and often need way bigger boxes than the manufacturer says to perform well.
Smaller subs, though... They generally sound "faster" because they lack the true, low bass which both sounds "slow" in itself, plus they excite the room/cabin in a totally different way than small subs (high energy, low frequency).
If you want true
I did an experiment with my 12" and my 18" subwoofers at home, both playing at reference levels, the 12" had a bit of movement while my 18" hardly did. That means the larger subwoofer had a better transient response than the smaller one. Plus the fact that it was able to play lower frequencies with ease.
All subs can sound great it depends on the setup
This a long time fallacy. This is not due to a function of mass, but rather inductance. The reason the smaller woofer from any particular line of drivers may appear faster is due to the smaller coils used on the smaller speakers. Smaller coil = lower inductance.
Build that same 8 to withstand higher wattage, and you will see the inductance rise accordingly. As the inductance rises, transient response (what you are referring to) worsens.
Got a good deal recently from a friend on a 8 inch sundown in a custom ported box tuned to 35hz and bought a walmart power acoustik amp. It has the cleanest bass I've ever heard from any sub I've ever had even cranked to high volume 85-90% and has no distortion what so ever. I highly recommend sundown, little on the expensive side but totally worth it.
18"s changed my life it would be awful to go back.
Same here. You feel the music even at low volumes.
@@thomasnelson213 I'm kinda new to this stuff, but for my taste I'd say my 12" 400w rms sub sealed hits hard too, even at low volumes... idk if thats just me or my car but I love it
As a beat maker, there’s a reason why most club PA subs are 18”. The resonant peak frequency is around 50Hz. Most kicks are tuned around that frequency +\- 10Hz Larger diameter speakers can peak at lower frequencies. Period. Human hearing doesn’t get much below 20Hz tho. But as far as moving air, sure you can feel it. Smaller subs w/ baffling will have a shorter decay/tighter response though. So if you listen to drum n bass or metal, then yeah, maybe an array of 10”s would be better for you. There’s no right or wrong- just application-like the guy says
I like 12's and my setup now is a NVX V2 12" with a Belva 3000 watt amplifier, also a NVX Bass Reconstruction processor. It actually sound alot better than i expected and the box is not ported.
The other thing is whether you want to install subs to hear and feel them or if you want to install subs to annoy everyone around you. the lower a frequency, the more distance it takes for that wave to fully develop. 10's or 12's will be more efficient in producing frequencies that are both: in the frequency band of music, and actually fully develop inside the car. 15's and 18's are more efficient at producing frequencies that will only develop outside the car. My personal preference has always been 12's. I think they strike the best balance between going super deep, and adding more musical punch. 10's will do in a cramped cargo space or in a stealth application, and it's much better to have a 10 with proper box dimensions than a 12 that's jammed into a smaller box than intended. But if you have the space, IMO 12's are the best in a car, even in a 2-12 vs. 3-10 area.
I agree with what you’re saying here. I use the term wavelength though. You hear the sound at the end of the wavelength. If the wavelength is longer than the car, it sounds better outside the car.
this is 100% false. a larger sub will produce ALLLLLL frequencies more efficiently until inductance becomes the limiting factor.
The smaller they are, generally the Faster they are with less 'Overhang'..Pace Rhythm and Timing is better.
@@OxBlitzkriegxONot at the expense of Speed or Overhang..Larger subs generally go lower but don't stop and start at good as a small driver..Big subs great for Synth stuff ..Not for Bass Guitar though
@@bryanwilliams3665 just....no. you have NO IDEA what youre talking about, lmao.
this larger subwoofer speed thing is just as cringe as people thinking you need backpressure in an exhaust system for cars.
so. many. ignorant. people.
if you have "speed" or "overhang" problems, it because you designed the box poorly or youre using the incorrect sub for the application, nothing more. stop being stupid and educate yourself.
For me there’s nothing like the sound from an infinite baffle set up. It’s light weight, space saving design and pure bass enjoyment is all I need. Who care about the numbers. My #1 choice.
I have a Rockford fosgate p300 8p 8 inch 350w combo unit that I installed myself and it’s a nice thumper with a decent knob and the sub is held down with a really strong Velcro
I made a super simple short flat underseat box with 4 8s for my 87 C10 and holy moly is it a monster. I honestly have never seriously driven around with it set to max for anything other than messing around.
@@-OokySpooky- I'm looking at building one for my '67 do you happen to have any pictures of yours as a referent? Because all I've got is underneath the seat and behind the seat where the fuel tank used to be
I usually go with a single 10 (or even a quality 8") for a few reasons... 1) I'm not 18 years old anymore, 2) a single 10 with a good amp sounds good enough for me and 3) I'm not interested in attracting enough attention that results in my windows being smashed in the middle of the night. Also, I was bumping comp 12's in the late 90's in a custom BOX (in a CRX) so it's interesting to me that everyone is now calling them "enclosures ". Lol. It's literally a Box
they were called enclosures 30 years ago too.
the correct term is bass reflex enclosure. It's not just a box, you need to research port tuning and box rise
@@jdextlab im well aware, dont "ackshually" me. im just telling you a truth.
BAck in the 80s-90s I Ran 6 G&S Red Line 8s on 2 US Amps .... Kicked ass for many a year, wasn't a huge bass monster compared to 15s but they were tight snappy and low. FFWD today running 2 MoJO 61/2s in slot loaded box, 2 1/2 thick baffle on 3K in my Sequoia. Sounds very musical and will go big bass when needed.
So I have a question. Are there any advantages or disadvantages to running two subwoofers in the same box within the same chamber or is it always better to put a dividing wall between the 2? I was thinking about what you said about surface area and theoretically if both of those are in the same chamber would two 12-inch subs perform like it's a 24 inch subwoofer seeing that you have more cone surface area in the box? Or does it not make a difference in just leads to distortion or something else that just doesn't sound good?
It will sound better without the separation but try to make the speakers cables same length ,now depends if they are in series or in parallel
I have a single 8" in a closed box (my preference back in the day because I used to think ported designs sound boomy and muddy). It's a mid-size sedan and the sub is in the trunk. With ~300W of amplification it's perfectly capable of volume that's uncomfortable, i. e. more than I need, and digs deep (down to 24 Hz at least) with my DSP settings. It's not perfect and I want to try something else, but it's very good, and for the price - it's awesome!
Hi Mark, I enjoy watching your videos. It sure would be nice to see some fresh videos.
For example, how to set up an amplifier that is oversized for the load. A 500w rms sub and an 800w+ rms amp.
Or tips on determining the crossover points when using 6 1/2” mids, tweeters, and 8” in the front doors along with one 10” or 12” sub in the rear.
Or tips on incorporating a subwoofer enclosure into a custom center console.
You always want a sub that is 50%-100% more wattage than the speakers or subs you are driving. The reason, you can adjust the "Gain" knob on the amplifier's power. Generally, it is good to supply 90%-80% of RMS wattage to speakers so you do not damage them, or get distortion. By using a stronger amp and turning its power back, means the amp will run cooler and not work as hard. This again will help with distortion, but also the longevity of your amp. Heat is the worse thing for amplifiers and their long term performance. If it is possible adding a computer fan to blow air over your amp (if it doesn't already have one) is a great way to help keep the amp cool as well. Simply tie into the amp's remote start wire for the fan's power wire, and make sure to get a 12 volt fan and the fan will turn on when your amp does. Even a little bit of cool air will greatly help an amplifier. Computer fans are the best as they run the quietest. So in your case of a 500w sub and an 800 watt amp. Simply adjust your Gain control knob on the amp to about the 1 - 2 o'clock position and you should be fine. And that is a great set up to power your sub, and not overwork your amp. So you are already on the right track. Peace.
I'm sorry. Correction: You always want an AMPLIFIER (not sub) that is 50%-100% more powerful than your speakers or sub that you are driving.
1 other thing: make sure you use large enough speaker wiring for your sub. And you don't necessarily have to buy a particular size wire, you can double up on smaller gauge wire to make the connections. just make sure the ends of the two wires are connected together before installing on the amp and sub. Best to solder instead of using "crimp" type connections for connecting the ends. In fact, it is always best to solder connections than any other type of connection. It really isn't that hard to do these days, and they even make battery operated soldering irons for convenience.
You always want to use an amplifier with more power than the speakers. Generally twice the amount, or a little less. That way you set the Gain Knob around 50-60%. 500 watt Sub, 1000 or in your case 800W amp. That way the amplifier doesn't work to hard, overheat and burn out early on ya. In your case 500w sub, and a 800 w amp, set the Gain around 2 o'clock, and you should be fine. Perfect actually. (if I already commented on this sorry, just smoked one. lol).
I replaced a dual 12 ported premade kicker box with a homemade sealed single 8, cause I'm old now.
I enjoy the better frequency response and only vibrates half the interior panels.
I have always preferred 8s or 10s for everyday listening, and 12's and 15s are better for pure SPL.
My personal favorite are 8s overall for mostly the ability to better CONTROL them, but I find 10's make a great compromise and can often be used in small space situations, and 12s make great loudness when space and power aren't a factor.
10's don't hit as low as well as 12's and 15's. I feel that I'm missing out on part of the music when I'm using 10's.
That's not how decent subs work.
Larger subs only sound worse if the motor is too weak. As long as it's a decently built sub, the size doesn't affect the sound.
Yeah, total MYTH BS! Better control? Nonsense!! You really think quality brand speaker companies would make larger subs if they couldn't accurately produce the proper sounds? GMAFB.
I once heard a hatchback car with 8 8" woofers in a baffle board , and I was impressed . That in itself
wouldn't mean much , except I owned 2 car audio stores and had not only built thousands of systems
but heard even many more . No one ever remembered my name so they started calling me Boxman I
built and sold thousands of enclosures to many car stereo stores all over the East half of Texas and
West half of Louisiana in the heyday of big boom . My stores were named Sound-Tex . So that being
said my being impressed with something so simple had to be pretty impressive .
I would like to experiment with every subwoofer size/system to my liking 15s are by far my favorite I’m working on some 8s currently though. I’ve heard plenty of 12 set ups all impressive. I honestly feel like this is all just an enclosure debate for all of these along with cone area.
Great video! Interested to know the output difference in the 15's vs 2 10's.
48years of listening to and 30 years of building enclosures has shown me the superiority of multiple smaller subs, ftw.
I"ve always liked 10's due to their tight and punchy sound. I'm currently running a JL 900/5 with a Focal PS165FXE component set and a JL 10W6V3 in a sealed enclosure.
Agreed all my cousins had 15s and like 3 12s and I was in my girls car and she had one 10inch kicker and great tweeters and it sounded so good like it was crisp the bass hit perfectly like it didn’t overwhelm ya know? Like 10s or even 8s I think are perfect
Total MYTH! All sub sizes can produce tight punchy bass. If one isn't, the box was clearly designed out of spec to get a different effect from the sub. As for "didn't overwhelm", it's called a bass knob or EQ to turn the bass down if need be.
You would get tighter bass response with smaller subs as well.
The best sub ( and system overall ) were my Infinity CS1a speakers. I worked with Infinity to create a box for the subs that were meant to be free air. Many people thought I had a much bigger system.
I used to think the bigger the sub the deeper the bass but boy was I wrong. I had a center console style box built for my extended cab Silverado and didn’t have enough room for 12s or even 10s so we went with 2 8” 1200w subs and the bass hits so low and clean sounding.. it totally switched everything up on how I thought subs worked. It’s really got a lot to do with the subs enclosure on how it sounds.
Of course you need the proper air space for a larger sub to work properly. Your experience has no bearing on the fact larger subs produce deeper bass than smaller subs. Your situation was a vehicle issue, not a sub issue.
And the "Speed" of the cone..Large cones are generally sluggish negatively impacting the Pace Rhythm and Timing of the music..They don't start and stop instantly..
The main reason 18" subs are used in concert stadiums is to throw Bass hundreds of yards to the back..Not so much for the frequencies.
Similarly horns are used for the treble ,not because they sound good but because a superior sounding conventional tweeters sound only travels a few feet.Horns transmit sound much longer distances.
I'd probably still go single 12 over 2 10s. Larger subs tend to dig lower in my experience.
If your 12 was a square you would have a cone area of 144 inches. 2 10"s would give you a cone area of 200 inches. If it is a choice of one 12" v 2 10's I would go with the 2 10's all the time. Now if it is 2 12's that is a different case altogether.
@@dman09191964 2x10's is perfect. If you go above that you're not doing it for the music... you're doing some show off type stuff (which two 10's is perfectly capable of. two 10's get's ridiculous. Two 12's sounds silly/obnoxious.).
@@urwholefamilydied that's a matter of opinion and opinions vary
@@urwholefamilydied I agree with you 100%. I've always had 2 10"s in my vehicles. Currently have 2 Q class 10's(Kicker) in my Ford Focus ST. It is in a custom box with subs facing up, port facing rear. I have 2000 watts RMS pushing them and it takes all of those watts no problem. I thought about going 2 12's but it would have been in a sealed box. I really believe 2 12's in a sealed box would be very musical. As for ported enclosures 2 10's every time.
@@urwholefamilydied you're wrong sir! Size won't make noticeable difference in sound if you go with well researched quality products.
Your opinion is probably based on using some cheap gears.
I'm now going to a 8" Focal Bomba BP20. In order to get really balanced sound and at the same tame precise, very low frequencies, having a big sub with a lot of power can't give you a good sound at a level that doesn't leave you deaf.
I had SPL oriented systems before and right know I aim to quality, not quantity.
Another awesome video explaining why "Bigger" isn't always better when it comes to subwoofers. Thank you, Mark!😎👊
I had 2 x 15inch subs in a hatchback in the 90s. One in the boot, one on the back seat and the music sounded Deep, Immersive and super clear with 6 mid range speakers running on another amp. Used to set off building alarms in the cbd lol. I hate smaller subs because I hate punch bass as it hurts my ears when song is turned up. I like super low frequencies so I can feel the song.
I will always choose a single 15 over two or three 8's. I'm not into SPL, it's just a personal preference as I enjoy deep sub bass that smaller subs simply cannot reproduce.
i beg to differ. i have 2 8"s that will blow SOME single 15"s away. it depends greatly on the speaker and the box. im hitting 28Hz out of 8"s and its very tight and accurate on the 40-70hz notes. my brother has a single 12 that is dropping bombs. he is floating bags and pulling hair tricks with 1 12", and honestly its pretty tight too. my goal is different than SPL, I want ACCURATE reproduction across the entire range (20-20,000) but trust me the right speakers makes ALL the difference.
@@Texas_Radical - I keep telling people that! The possibilities are endless and it all depends on the design.
Play that 15 by itself and it will sound horrible.
@@CarsandCats - It willnot. You aren’t taking into consideration the material, the weight, the xmax, servo vs non servo, sealed vs non sealed, box design and other factors like multiple speakers not being as precise as a single speaker. Too many of you are just repeating what you you heard others say.
@@CarsandCats I guess that's why they are sold individually, huh? 🤣🤣🤣
The original polk SDAs were rated at 18 hz with multiple 6 inch drivers .
the bass was the fastest and cleanest i've ever heard and this was accomplished without a sub . the speed of the bass was astonishing . you could clearly hear the beginning and ending of each note with no overlap like is sometimes the case with big woofers .
Mark, is there a difference in sound profile of multiple smaller subs vs one larger one? (Assuming similar cone area and enclosure type) or is the bass pretty much the same no matter the sub size as long as cone area and enclosure type is similar?
Definitely a very different sound profile, multiple smaller drivers almost always sound way tighter and punch harder, and louder longer because more coils can take more abuse. You can also fit more active surface area using multiple smaller than a single larger for all these reasons it's Superior
The problem of subwoofers is the bigger the speaker, the bigger the delay of the mepbrane and the less tight and less accurate the bass is. 8inch is best for small cars, 10inch for sedans and cabrio. 12inch for station wagons. Use 2 subwoofers for high spl.
This is my experience as well. My friend's 8s in a ford ranger hit as hard as my 12s in a wagon or 10s in an impala.
Although I had another friend who fit 3x 12s in a hatch, and we couldn't even hear the music. It was all bass.
I've gotten into smaller subs a bit more recently. Ive got 3 6.5 subs now, probably going to make 3 separate enclosures, already made one. The 6.5 inch car subs available have a ridiculous amount of motor compared to their cone area making them attractive for what im doing
You will get less db using separate enclosures.
@@kingwillie206 I'm not gonna run them all at once no worries
10w7 is my favorite sub ever. Perfectly small and good luck powering 4 of them in a suv. They suck up hundreds of amps. Good vid
I'm an idiot, 18s are my thing 😅
Hey Mark! I see you have quite a gap around that 13w7. I can see a nice press fit ring to lock around the clamp ring, and a custom grill over the sub. But that's my mind at work.
I like larger subs because I get very hungry. Wait, we’re talking subway right?
I ran (6) 8W6's in several different applications back some years ago. Great performance in 6 cubic feet on 1,250 watts or so.
I remember a coworker of mine decades ago had 2 8's in a Ford Ranger. Man, you could of sworn he had at least 2 10"s in there the way those subs hit, I was definitely impressed.
I have owned hundreds of subwoofers and the best cheap system I had was with 4-10 inch punch subs powered with an Alpine V12. I started with two, then moved to three and four. I compared them on the same amp with a single 12 inch JL W6, two 12in kicker golds and a 15 inch SoundStream 160. The 15 was almost louder but the 4 cheap 10’s dominated. These days I just have an 8inch punch sub in a 35hz ported box.
My personal preference is 12 inch subs in a sedan because it’s the sweet spot. 2 12s at 3000 rms combined will slap even in a sealed enclosure. Sealed enclosure take up less trunk space and is a fool proof way to get amazing SQ. As for ported boxes they can get amazing SQ if built properly to match the subwoofer driver specifically and tuned nice and low.
do your subs still hit into the high 20’s with a sealed box?
I have a jx 500/1 amp. Which one is gona have more bass? a JL 8w7 or a 10w7 with that amp?
The 10W7 because of it's higher VAS (Liters), lower Fs (Hz), and most important, it's higher XMAX (at 23mm of Excursion versus only 19mm with the 8W7). Besides, later when you can afford it, you can step up to a JL-HD750 and run that 10W7 like it's meant to be ran! 💪🏻💪🏻🔊
Ran a few 10" sub setups. 10w7 on jl audio 500/1v2.
2 10w7 on jl audio 1000/1v2.
3 10w6 on a jl audio 1200/1.
All sounded amazing tuned to 33hz.
I’m using 2 10in subwoofer’s and they sound really clean in my 2004 Honda pilot. I’m running 2 sdr’s 10s at 1 ohm
I have been a bass player for 42 years and have used 18.15,12 and 10 inch cabs. The issue with bass is the distance it takes to mature. If i play on a small stage I will use the 10 inch cabs this because a larger speaker would not be audible close to it, I would need to be 8 feet or more distance from the cab to hear it sufficiently to monitor my sound. I am opting for an 8 inch cab to utilise this principle on stage and perhaps even using two 6.5 inch subs in my car as this principle is the same.. short distance smaller diameter subs.
Advantages of smaller subwoofers - smaller boxes with deep bass; good if you're building a horn.
Disadvantages: More expensive for the same output, heavier for the same output, generally less sensitivity.
Advantage of large subwoofers: Easier to create deep notes efficiently if you have the room, usually more excursion and output for the price.
Disadvantages: Some models the electrical Q can be higher than optimal, need a larger box or you'll get mostly midbass boom in an undersized box.
How high they can play is usually not about size but about cone mass relative to size. Box size isn't directly proportional to woofer size even if there is correlation, and sometimes a smaller woofer from one brand with less BL and electrical Q can need a larger box than a bigger woofer from another brand.
Cone size is but one small aspect of subwoofer design and construction. As you pointed out, having the right enclosure for a given sub is one of the most important details. That being said, I find ~12-13" subwoofers to be the sweet spot in many applications. 10" and smaller subs are far harder to get super deep bass out of. It's possible, but much harder. Good 12-13" subs can maintain their output down to 20hz fairly easily in the right applications, while 15"+ subs often don't sounds as clean and end up being super massive to have the right enclosure sizing.
That's why i choose MASSIVE summo 8" subs! For my HYUNDAI KONA ,to heavy for bigger zubs and space, im not a pro car audio ,but just a simple bass make me happy❤
I use an 8 inch Alpine Type R in a Skar tube enclosure in my truck. Setup is amazing.
From my experience, 10s is the sweet spot, and can handle all genres, where 12’s get sloppy
12's are hardly sloppy, not even 18's are sloppy, quit the nonsense.
Building a custom deck for my Ford C-max hybrid. Going with 8" pioneer TS-A2000LDS2 (2) and a 1600w kicker amp. This setup is removable.
Glad to see you still putting out quality content. 🐐
If I could afford a w13 that is the way I'd go. Audio control and jl audio in a system will never disappoint. I'm happy with my cheaper crap, 151 on a 3k amp isn't horrible
counterpoint to your 10" subwoofer in the 32x13" space, I had similar limitation (14" x 30) , i opted for dual 12" so I could run a ported box with the ports facing forwards. and the enclosures tuned for 25hz. I felt I could get better low frequency response than 3 x 10" running fully enclosed.
I can definitely say from experience that smaller subs can hit hard in the right box. I had a friend that had 2 10"s in a bandpass box in the back of a Mitsubishi Mirage coupe. Man, I don't know what kind of subs she had, but that system was banging the hell out of that car. If I put another system in my own ride, I wouldn't hesitate to go with a couple of 10"s for sure.
i have a single 10 inch deafbonce sub rated for 1000watts and it hits hard
@@jdextlab Nice
10's are really the first size that can actually be considered real subwoofers so it's no surprise they sounded great.
I love my two Kicker 10's. They're loud as hell and very responsive as I listen to heavier fast paced metal mostly.
I run two skar 6.5 inch subs in my truck because the boxes fit behind my rear seat and it sounds great!
I have an 8inch , soft spider, low spring constant in a vented enclosure for the car and for house, I got five 12inches car subwoofers and one 18 inches pa system LF driver.
I don’t know much about car subs, but I like the sound of bass guitar through an amp with a 10” speaker.
My 2021 civic.. has 6 10 inch phoenix gold sx series subs [sealed], 2 phoenix gold 1200.1 sx series amps, and 4 xs power batteries. Civics booty a little sagging 😅 and yes still stock alt..😢 thanks for the uploads always watching
I always ended up returning to small /sealed with some EQ. I just run 4 of them to achieve desired SPL levels. I get cleaner bass and mid bass. granted I also include 1.5" thick walls. My best sounding systems included this small sub method.
I recently swapped my old 12" Kicker Comp-C (ported box) for an Eton Force 10" (closed enclosure). Bass instantly got much cleaner. I'm also going to replace my AS Carbon 500.1D amp for a JL Audio JX1000.1D for further upgrades and for having a little extra power so I don't have to turn up the gain to max level.
It got better because an enclosed sub, in my opinion, has better sound quality than ported. And requires less wattage to run it too.
I had one single 8 inch bazooka in the trunk of my 68 firebird and it sounded great. Better than all my friends with dual 12 inch subs in their cars.
And then you woke up?
been running a triple 10 box for the last 3 years, and i dont know if i could use something else now since i have really enjoyed how versatile this setup can be with the right drivers and amp. some eq may be needed for the super lows in a sealed box but its not too bad, and you get to keep all the snappy bass of the smaller speakers. dont try to tell me that big large speakers can have snap, i can assure you the 12w7 does not. smaller + more of them = better.
Smaller + more does not always equal better, just more appropriate for your particular needs is all. Do you honestly think high end speaker companies would make larger subwoofers if they couldn't function properly? Yes, that includes being "snappy", whatever that actually means to you. I assume you mean fast and quick. Yes, larger subs are plenty "snappy", but you are welcome to deny it all you want, those of us who know better will continue on just fine without your approval.