subs are nice. may I suggest different colours for different speakers? If you're going to include other people speaking I'd colour code it. For some non native speakers people may sound alike. ie in this video you use Narc a lot, so maybe colour his portions green rather than yellow.
As you said in the end we just hope this game doesnt turn into another digital graveyard, therefore I think criticism is important, it is ok to disagree with monetization and direction of the game.
This is the most grounded, thorough, and well reflected video I have seen in a very long time. Thank you so much for your time and effort. I'm really sorry for your and your country's situation. Wish you all the best. Greetings from Norway
Almost everything Intrepid is doing is exactly what I said they would be doing 3+ years ago when I said we wouldn't see A2 until Q3 2024 at the earliest. Then, when everyone was debating the A2 testing schedule, I laid out something very very similar to what they ended up doing. The problem is people don't actually listen, especially when people who have particular insight are trying to help them understand what is really happening or going to happen. Instead, you get what the internet gives, which is mostly brainrot and rage bait.
I think this is the only sane take I've seen from this whole thing. People are digging for meaning in every word Steven and Margaret utter so it's inevitable that they'll say things that mislead people. Intrepid is far from perfect in their communication, but they are trying to be candid, which is more than I can say for all but a select few developers. Some would interpret this type of language as being defensive of Intrepid, but it's really just acknowledging their efforts for what they are without projecting the failures of others onto them.
I'm not super in touch with the Ashes community, just look at stuff here and there as it pops into my algorithm. There's only one important question here to me that you pose in the video: "did they do this maliciously or not?" The way over the last few days that I've heard "Steven" described is the exact way that scammers, ponzi schemes, cults, etc are described. "He's so personable and open with the community. He always says the right things and comes and talks to us on discord and reddit, he's such a great guy. If you just knew him like we do you'd see that!" When you partner this with the fact that dozens of companies, including the biggest/most famous, do this exact tactic consistently, it's pretty clear to me it was malicious and intended to get a reaction from the ragebaiters and massive content creators. With this being said, if the game came out with a reasonable price tag (monthly subs are fine if they are consistently updating/adding) and it was actually really good, I'd play it. It's the same as buying a product from any of the other scummy companies out there. It's just sad to me to see people get suckered in to things that will likely never be what was promised.
This is why I clearly stated in my previous video that the safest option now is either to wait till launch or at least till Alpha 2 when people will start testing it
@@irishsage2459 my point is, if youve decided that a person is trying to scam you, normal behaviours like those mentioned is seen as part of the scam, even if the person is just behaving normally
@@MrKevlarkent It's part of the scam because building a relationship is essential. It's not genuine and is simply being used to manipulate you. If I asked you for $100, you'd tell me to get lost. If I became your friend, told you how great you are, promised we'd do all these fun things together for a few weeks/months, you'd be a lot more likely to give me the money. You should absolutely question when a random person on the internet who's purpose is to make money is glazing you and making promises that have yet to come to fruition, then asks you for money.
Haha I already have a power generator and I'm about to dump another shit ton of money for more advanced one with extra batteries. Even nuclear war wouldn't stop me from playing Ashes
The -only- issue with anything is that content creators don't have any content to really push, and so they created drama to make something out of nothing. Them opening up the keys is an opportunity that you could choose to buy into, or choose not to. As they weren't planning to reopen them either take advantage or don't.
Honestly, as a chonicles of elysium "orphan" (luckily without having spend anything in that "game") the fact we had at least 1 alpha and we HAVE a game is already good for me
@@FlankerAOC yeah, as a brazillian youtube had said before "will AoC be the PERFECT MMORPG ? Of couse not, there's isn't such thing as a perfect game." I just truly agree with your statement of "we just don't want another digital graveyard". If I can be able to be a silly tulnar/nikua inkeeper i'll be already happy >:v also, grate video! I also like the subtitles. as a non-native english speaker it helps having thoses to read and listen a video at the same time.
@@BasilBeesLair thank you mate! I was wondering whether I should have them, but then one guy wrote that he is deaf and can't watch videos with them and I was like... I got you, buddy
Yeah, when it all started, it was a massive reality check for many people. A lot of things immediately become unimportant when you are hiding in a bomb shelter during a ballistic missile barrage
Your take on this as well as No1 (another AoC RUclipsr) have the best, level headed, analysis of this situation I’ve heard. Even as an avid Narc and Asmongold watcher, it doesn’t mean I agree with everything they say though I respect their opinion. Really good stuff. And as for the real life stuff going around you, stay safe brother, I wish the world wasn’t this way. ❤
Left a like just for Lineage 2. That one felt personal from Narc :( but most ex l2 players want a new home, and for most, AoC might be the only chance on the horizon.
No it's called black and white thinking. You are either for OR against, wright OR wrong, red OR blue. There's nothing in between. It happens a lot to people who are anxious, like homebody incels who obsess over the release of a video game... @1:45
My observation with regards to toxicity of the community being that it is proportional to the PvP-ness of the MMO. The more PvP-centric the MMO is designed for, the more toxic the community will be. The MMO feature attracts the kind of players in a nutshell. Toxic players are everywhere in every MMO, but some MMOs are more toxic than others. To name a few: EveOnline, Archeage etc. Archeage has shutdown, EveOnline is struggling only managing to host its niche players and are not very mainstream. Ashes of Creation is also quite PvP-centric being modeled after Archeage. So I am not surprised the kind of community it attracts.
There is a difference between a loyal supporter and what this game is doing to people. I've been to the forums for AoC. The amount of self deception involved in the community is crazy. Even the most basic idea like the devs saying the devs can make a mistake is beyond the pale to most the people posting on the forums. That's a problem. People that can't even accept that the devs could make a mistake in the designing process will never admit they made a mistake after. Not to mention those people chase any sane person out of the forums if they don't strictly adhere to thier dogma.
@FlankerAOC it does not. I've never seen a gaming community not be able to admit the devs could make a mistake. Most of them will freely admit that. This community seems to find the idea so offensive that they need to shout people down.
I dont understand they always said Alpha 2 is a test of features if you looking to test a finished game thats what is called a BETA test so Im happy I will be able to get in to the game and test how progression works how the world feels and other features so I can give my feedback and maybe thanks to that will get some positive changes for when the game actually releases 👍🏻
A person can only fund their own project for so long. They have over 200 employees now, plus all the overhead that comes with running a business and having a building that is stocked with all the things needed for those 200 employees to do their jobs. How do you pay for all of that if you don't yet have a game to sell? I'm not buying anything from Intrepid until they have a finished game, but I understand why they are selling keys for $100+. It's all about value and value is subjective. You either believe an alpha key is worth it or you don't. It's an alpha, not pre-release. If the game fails, that sucks, but life goes on.
I like how narc complain about people going out of there way to attack him, yet he attacks people in his discord so pretty hypocritical for example he decided accuse people of being a pedo based on profile picture in one case a pokemon profile picture, and if you dont agree with something he says he go ahead and say and if you argue with me i'll ban you. Soooo *shrugs* i dont think he can complain about somone "attacking him" when he does it all the time himself.
@@FlankerAOC oh. I seem to be in a loop for some time, playing a bit, pause, come back to it and so on😂 if by any chance nostalgia hits, check l2 reborn, I think it’s one of the best out there that’s not p2w. Cya in A2 😀
Great video. Personally I think the whole situation is kind of silly. I never thought of funding Ashes as a purchase in the first place. The idea that I was "buying a product" never occured to me in the first place, because I wasn't. They literally said "don't do it and wait for release if you want to play a game" the whole time. Every step of the way they made it very clear what it was and changes to phasing and schedules are to be expected in any development project. The one thing that irks me is the way they did the "cosmetic rewards", because FOMO is manipulative bs. But I will admit that I'm not completely informed about the whole situation so maybe I'm missing something.
I really enjoyed the rational approach of normalizing this shit being normal. There are people on both sides, that are outraged and pissed, and those that are pretty happy and are hyped. the idea of just sticking to one lane and just waiting as a game of this kind is the first of its kind, maybe second to oldschool runescape in terms of development. but imagine if steven didn't communicate with the community, if we didnt get these live streams. There would be different kind of out rage. I feel its good for people to understand where they stand, but for the people who are hyped, just to be patient and have some resilience, people are assholes, and they want reactions out of people and tear them down, as they feed off of it, so just be a non-doom pilled enjoyer and just relax and wait and trust the process, and then if its not what you want, then just move on :)
All I hope is the game to come out in a few more years. That’s it and of course be the next Gen mmorpg. Dang it’s been 2004-2006 vanilla wow since any major leaps. They can have my money when it releases. It looks as though it will be the next one.
Just don't pay for the alpha lmao why are people crying about it. I look forward to playing the game with my gf on release but I can't wait until it is indeed. Released.
So your whole video is just some muted centrist non-argument with the same quivering assertion that strong opinions can't be correct because undefined reasons Why even chime in?
Huh? I haven't said anything like that. I don't whether the opinion is "strong" or "not strong", I only care whether it is valid or not and what exactly it is based on. That's it
@@_AriseChicken NW fucked up absolutely everything they possibly could. Lack of content, lack of optimization, game-breaking bugs, destroyed economy, bots and many other things. I experienced it myself as I've been there. So what? Where is the correlation between NW and AoC? How does NW's fail affect AoC?
@@FlankerAOCit's as likely to be Star citizen as it is to ever actually be a game. They're certainly copying the business model. If you support the business model, you support the result.
Do any of you guys find subtitles helpful? Do they make watching more comfortable?
subbies are nice
As an anime fan, I like subs. At this point I can read them and not notice while watching, if that makes any since.
subs are nice. may I suggest different colours for different speakers? If you're going to include other people speaking I'd colour code it. For some non native speakers people may sound alike. ie in this video you use Narc a lot, so maybe colour his portions green rather than yellow.
Sounds like a good idea actually, thank you!
I can't hear without subs
This breakdown was a great look at both sides of the conversation. Great video dude 💪
Thank you!
"Welcome to the internet my friend" :D sums this whole BS situation up perfectly
Haha yeah
Yep.
It is a game .
The only group of people more unhinged is sports fans and I'm starting to doubt that .
@@tonydalimata lol
Haha that's true
Blessings of safety for you 10:53
Appreciate it man!
As you said in the end we just hope this game doesnt turn into another digital graveyard, therefore I think criticism is important, it is ok to disagree with monetization and direction of the game.
Oh, absolutely, valid criticism and healthy scepticism are important
This is the most grounded, thorough, and well reflected video I have seen in a very long time. Thank you so much for your time and effort. I'm really sorry for your and your country's situation. Wish you all the best. Greetings from Norway
Oh, I've been to Norway, it's truly an amazing country. I visited Oslo and Bergen
Almost everything Intrepid is doing is exactly what I said they would be doing 3+ years ago when I said we wouldn't see A2 until Q3 2024 at the earliest.
Then, when everyone was debating the A2 testing schedule, I laid out something very very similar to what they ended up doing.
The problem is people don't actually listen, especially when people who have particular insight are trying to help them understand what is really happening or going to happen.
Instead, you get what the internet gives, which is mostly brainrot and rage bait.
The unfortunate reality
I think this is the only sane take I've seen from this whole thing. People are digging for meaning in every word Steven and Margaret utter so it's inevitable that they'll say things that mislead people. Intrepid is far from perfect in their communication, but they are trying to be candid, which is more than I can say for all but a select few developers.
Some would interpret this type of language as being defensive of Intrepid, but it's really just acknowledging their efforts for what they are without projecting the failures of others onto them.
Waiting is not easy and when people get bored, they often start to speculate, get doubtful and invent conspiracy theories
What’s the actual thing up for debate here?
I genuinely don’t know
I'm not super in touch with the Ashes community, just look at stuff here and there as it pops into my algorithm.
There's only one important question here to me that you pose in the video: "did they do this maliciously or not?"
The way over the last few days that I've heard "Steven" described is the exact way that scammers, ponzi schemes, cults, etc are described. "He's so personable and open with the community. He always says the right things and comes and talks to us on discord and reddit, he's such a great guy. If you just knew him like we do you'd see that!"
When you partner this with the fact that dozens of companies, including the biggest/most famous, do this exact tactic consistently, it's pretty clear to me it was malicious and intended to get a reaction from the ragebaiters and massive content creators.
With this being said, if the game came out with a reasonable price tag (monthly subs are fine if they are consistently updating/adding) and it was actually really good, I'd play it. It's the same as buying a product from any of the other scummy companies out there. It's just sad to me to see people get suckered in to things that will likely never be what was promised.
This is why I clearly stated in my previous video that the safest option now is either to wait till launch or at least till Alpha 2 when people will start testing it
being personable and open is a bad thing now?
@@MrKevlarkent
Anything done maliciously is bad, yes. Even kindness.
That shouldn't need explanation.
@@irishsage2459 my point is, if youve decided that a person is trying to scam you, normal behaviours like those mentioned is seen as part of the scam, even if the person is just behaving normally
@@MrKevlarkent It's part of the scam because building a relationship is essential. It's not genuine and is simply being used to manipulate you.
If I asked you for $100, you'd tell me to get lost. If I became your friend, told you how great you are, promised we'd do all these fun things together for a few weeks/months, you'd be a lot more likely to give me the money.
You should absolutely question when a random person on the internet who's purpose is to make money is glazing you and making promises that have yet to come to fruition, then asks you for money.
LINEAGE 2 REPRESEEEEEENT!
YAAAAAAAAAY!
Wish you well and hope you stay safe!
Thank you my friend! At least I will know that I was covering Ashes of Creation till my last breath haha
Ahhh, a fellow air raid enjoyer. Yeah, if those fuckers mess up the power grid again and I can't test A2 properly - uuuuuhh I'm gonna do stuff!
Haha I already have a power generator and I'm about to dump another shit ton of money for more advanced one with extra batteries. Even nuclear war wouldn't stop me from playing Ashes
Proceed to invade the US for the sole purpose of making sure the AoC servers stay up. xD
The -only- issue with anything is that content creators don't have any content to really push, and so they created drama to make something out of nothing. Them opening up the keys is an opportunity that you could choose to buy into, or choose not to. As they weren't planning to reopen them either take advantage or don't.
Totally agree with you
I enjoyed the balanced approach 😊👍
Thanks mate!
Good job on the additional info on the beta packs. Good luck with your channel.
Thank you for support!
Honestly, as a chonicles of elysium "orphan" (luckily without having spend anything in that "game") the fact we had at least 1 alpha and we HAVE a game is already good for me
I feel you. It's important to keep your expectations realistic, but we can't deny - developers are making some decent progress
@@FlankerAOC yeah, as a brazillian youtube had said before "will AoC be the PERFECT MMORPG ? Of couse not, there's isn't such thing as a perfect game."
I just truly agree with your statement of "we just don't want another digital graveyard". If I can be able to be a silly tulnar/nikua inkeeper i'll be already happy >:v
also, grate video! I also like the subtitles. as a non-native english speaker it helps having thoses to read and listen a video at the same time.
@@BasilBeesLair thank you mate! I was wondering whether I should have them, but then one guy wrote that he is deaf and can't watch videos with them and I was like... I got you, buddy
+1 for rational thinking
10:45 This really put silly internet drama into perspective. Real people out there have actual problems to worry about.
Yeah, when it all started, it was a massive reality check for many people. A lot of things immediately become unimportant when you are hiding in a bomb shelter during a ballistic missile barrage
@FlankerAOC Stay safe my friend 🧡
Really awesome video! Thank you!
You are very welcome!
Great video very fair critique
Good video! balanced and funny (sorry about your tuesday night) i had a similar experience playing RE with my mate 🤣
Probably everyone who played it did haha
10:50 modern war asmr, for good night nightmares and life long ptsd.
Your take on this as well as No1 (another AoC RUclipsr) have the best, level headed, analysis of this situation I’ve heard. Even as an avid Narc and Asmongold watcher, it doesn’t mean I agree with everything they say though I respect their opinion. Really good stuff.
And as for the real life stuff going around you, stay safe brother, I wish the world wasn’t this way. ❤
Thank you so much, it means a lot for me
Left a like just for Lineage 2. That one felt personal from Narc :( but most ex l2 players want a new home, and for most, AoC might be the only chance on the horizon.
Oh, absolutely! I'm so glad that AoC took some really good systems from L2
I had to unsub from narc bout 6 months ago. He is always negative and arrogant
Reality is not negative or arrogant. It simply is.
True. The question is about the line between the objective reality and subjective opinion or perception
No it's called black and white thinking. You are either for OR against, wright OR wrong, red OR blue. There's nothing in between. It happens a lot to people who are anxious, like homebody incels who obsess over the release of a video game... @1:45
Yup, it is also known as false dichotomy fallacy
@@FlankerAOC Big words.
My observation with regards to toxicity of the community being that it is proportional to the PvP-ness of the MMO. The more PvP-centric the MMO is designed for, the more toxic the community will be. The MMO feature attracts the kind of players in a nutshell. Toxic players are everywhere in every MMO, but some MMOs are more toxic than others. To name a few: EveOnline, Archeage etc. Archeage has shutdown, EveOnline is struggling only managing to host its niche players and are not very mainstream. Ashes of Creation is also quite PvP-centric being modeled after Archeage. So I am not surprised the kind of community it attracts.
There is a difference between a loyal supporter and what this game is doing to people. I've been to the forums for AoC. The amount of self deception involved in the community is crazy. Even the most basic idea like the devs saying the devs can make a mistake is beyond the pale to most the people posting on the forums. That's a problem. People that can't even accept that the devs could make a mistake in the designing process will never admit they made a mistake after. Not to mention those people chase any sane person out of the forums if they don't strictly adhere to thier dogma.
Yeah, I guess it applies to the majority, if not to all, gamimg communities
@FlankerAOC it does not. I've never seen a gaming community not be able to admit the devs could make a mistake. Most of them will freely admit that. This community seems to find the idea so offensive that they need to shout people down.
Well, yeah, people are people
Gogo lineage 2 fam 6:06
Make Lineage great again! Even if it's called Ashes of Creation now
I dont understand they always said Alpha 2 is a test of features if you looking to test a finished game thats what is called a BETA test so Im happy I will be able to get in to the game and test how progression works how the world feels and other features so I can give my feedback and maybe thanks to that will get some positive changes for when the game actually releases 👍🏻
Yeah, but it is not finished yet, so it's too early for Beta yet
Narc complaining about racists while he regurgitates right wing talking points and freaks out over "Indians" during his livestreams 😅
which ingame boss are those two: 2:58-255
I don't know his names, but I like the animations xD
A person can only fund their own project for so long. They have over 200 employees now, plus all the overhead that comes with running a business and having a building that is stocked with all the things needed for those 200 employees to do their jobs. How do you pay for all of that if you don't yet have a game to sell? I'm not buying anything from Intrepid until they have a finished game, but I understand why they are selling keys for $100+. It's all about value and value is subjective. You either believe an alpha key is worth it or you don't. It's an alpha, not pre-release. If the game fails, that sucks, but life goes on.
Totally agree. IIRC Steven said they already spent $85-90 millions, so I'm happy if they get extra funding without any 3rd party investors
I like how narc complain about people going out of there way to attack him, yet he attacks people in his discord so pretty hypocritical for example he decided accuse people of being a pedo based on profile picture in one case a pokemon profile picture, and if you dont agree with something he says he go ahead and say and if you argue with me i'll ban you. Soooo *shrugs* i dont think he can complain about somone "attacking him" when he does it all the time himself.
Narc likes to keep it spicy haha
Yes...fight fight fight!
What game is being played?
Umm... Ashes of Creation
Lineageeeee bradaaar ❤ still playing?
Naah, unfortunately, I don't, waiting for Alpha 2
@@FlankerAOC oh. I seem to be in a loop for some time, playing a bit, pause, come back to it and so on😂 if by any chance nostalgia hits, check l2 reborn, I think it’s one of the best out there that’s not p2w. Cya in A2 😀
I used to play on Asterios server, High Five chronicles
The copium is STRONG on this one, cringe
Great video. Personally I think the whole situation is kind of silly. I never thought of funding Ashes as a purchase in the first place. The idea that I was "buying a product" never occured to me in the first place, because I wasn't. They literally said "don't do it and wait for release if you want to play a game" the whole time. Every step of the way they made it very clear what it was and changes to phasing and schedules are to be expected in any development project. The one thing that irks me is the way they did the "cosmetic rewards", because FOMO is manipulative bs. But I will admit that I'm not completely informed about the whole situation so maybe I'm missing something.
I talk about FOMO in another video (link with a direct timecode): ruclips.net/video/5shak30yXfQ/видео.htmlfeature=shared&t=664
Yeah, I'm done with Ashes. I don't want to choose sides i want a game that's fun.
if you wanted a fun game, why were you following ashes of creation to begin with.
Oh, there is absolutely no need to choose sides at the moment. Just wait for the release, it's the safest option
@@FlankerAOC That's what I'm planning to do. Thanks!
Wow 🤩 that's great
I really enjoyed the rational approach of normalizing this shit being normal. There are people on both sides, that are outraged and pissed, and those that are pretty happy and are hyped. the idea of just sticking to one lane and just waiting as a game of this kind is the first of its kind, maybe second to oldschool runescape in terms of development. but imagine if steven didn't communicate with the community, if we didnt get these live streams. There would be different kind of out rage. I feel its good for people to understand where they stand, but for the people who are hyped, just to be patient and have some resilience, people are assholes, and they want reactions out of people and tear them down, as they feed off of it, so just be a non-doom pilled enjoyer and just relax and wait and trust the process, and then if its not what you want, then just move on :)
All I hope is the game to come out in a few more years.
That’s it and of course be the next Gen mmorpg.
Dang it’s been 2004-2006 vanilla wow since any major leaps.
They can have my money when it releases. It looks as though it will be the next one.
Amen
Just don't pay for the alpha lmao why are people crying about it. I look forward to playing the game with my gf on release but I can't wait until it is indeed. Released.
Simple as that
So your whole video is just some muted centrist non-argument with the same quivering assertion that strong opinions can't be correct because undefined reasons
Why even chime in?
Huh? I haven't said anything like that. I don't whether the opinion is "strong" or "not strong", I only care whether it is valid or not and what exactly it is based on. That's it
15/mo for a game = fair
5/mo fir testing = scam?
🤤🤤🤤🤤🤤
You have to have a community to be "under fire" from them. Nobody gives a damn about this project/techdemo.
Nobody apart from 150+k Alpha testers and tens of thousands of those who checks out the updates from time to time. Yeah 😅
@@FlankerAOC look at new world now lol
@@_AriseChicken NW fucked up absolutely everything they possibly could. Lack of content, lack of optimization, game-breaking bugs, destroyed economy, bots and many other things. I experienced it myself as I've been there. So what? Where is the correlation between NW and AoC? How does NW's fail affect AoC?
@@FlankerAOC ill see you after it dies lol.
@@_AriseChicken please do
Lets be honest this is another Star Citizen
Well, nobody knows it for a fact. And it's easy to make such statements when there are no consequences of being wrong. I use this example in the video
@@FlankerAOC thats what the bless online players used to say 🤣🤣🤣
@@jefhope8252 GTA 6 is also another Star Citizen. 10 years and no game. What a scam.
@@takotako3321 used up all ur brain cells on that havent u.....
@@FlankerAOCit's as likely to be Star citizen as it is to ever actually be a game.
They're certainly copying the business model.
If you support the business model, you support the result.