WWSD2020 - Project Launch & Mk3 Lower Announcement
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- Опубликовано: 23 дек 2024
- InRangeTV launched the What Would Stoner Do (WWSD) project in 2017 with the goal of revisiting the intentions of Eugene Stoner when he developed the AR10, ultimately scaled down to the AR15 with Jim Sullivan, wherein Stoner leveraged aerospace technologies, concepts and materials in regards to designing the world's most modern rifle. He succeeded in these goals but he was initially ahead of his time - an inline design composed of aluminum and fiberglass was something foreign & weird, certainly not a fighting man's rifle, right?
Ultimately the AR15 became the world's best, most reliable, handy and capable fighting rifle against all odds of existing bias and even sabotage. However, over time, the AR15 has gradually be modified by "one good idea at a time" and the AR/M16 of today has dramatically deviated from the original vision of Eugene Stoner. We aimed to bring the AR15 back to its roots, but with modern materials and concepts in 2017, and feel that we succeeded well beyond our expectations. The 2017 WWSD rifle turned into a wonderfully well balanced, accurate and durable gun that did indeed capture the spirit of those goals from the late 1950's.
Unfortunately, the only good and viable polymer lower on the market become nearly inaccessible. The company that manufactured them went dark and the remaining inventory of those on the market went up in value and became difficult to obtain. This lower was one of the most quintessential elements of what made the WWSD rifle what it is.
We are very excited to announce today that we're launching WWSD2020 in which we're going to revisit all of what we did in 2017, but now with a brand new Mk3 Lower that is being manufactured by KE Arms, under the watchful eye of Russell Phagan (Sinistral Rifleman), who has a superb and institutional knowledge of the previous lowers and can incorporate lessons learned into the manufacture of this new MK3 and WWSD2020 rifle.
Ultimately this effort will culminate in not only having a truly improved Mk3 version of this polymer lower on the market, but with also with complete WWSD rifles available through a partnership with Brownells!
Brownells has provided a landing page for this project and we plan to provide videos all the nitty gritty of the revisit of WWSD in 2020 on that page, including content that can't be published to RUclips.
US viewers can find more information here:
www.inrange.tv/...
International viewers, please use this link:
www.inrange.tv/...
So what you’re saying is that this channel has almost single handedly reinvigorated the development of polymer lowers, that’s pretty amazing.
While awesome, any chance Brownells will waive their usual $10 “processing fee” gouge for these?
@@stevep5834 $10 isn't really that much when the actual rifle is between $400-$1000.
Definitely no $200 tax stamp.
Yeah, self assembling the original WWSD could cost somewhere between $1200-$2,000. Hopefully this new project will bring down the price to something more reasonable.
Ever since I saw them talk about it, I've wanted one like no other. Thanks gun jesus.
ah... the Mk III....mmmm
Russel’s enthusiasm really makes the video for me, in all honesty.
Ty Mercer someone needs to calm Russel down, it’s distracting
It's really distracting with him jumping on the walls.
He really needs to have some herbal tea to relax.
dude is like Eeyore.
He just has a 'timeout feature' wherein (like your PC's screensaver), after being ignored for 2 seconds, he just drops into standby; a small bug in his programming unfortunately fails to disable his 'blink automation'. OTOH, many contend that it makes him seem more human
Two guys running a gun channel are able to influence the industry for the better to this degree. What a time to be alive!
JonnyCrash @theakguy
@@mr.davemaeen8136 big meh on the AK guys influence
I watch him, but he hasnt made any real influence as far as pushing designs forward or improving upon anything. It seems like hes just trying to be the gun world's pewdiepie lately
And a pretty small one at that. No offense intended.
Sinistral Rifleman literally beside himself with excitement there as usual. I swear I saw an eyebrow twitch.
Reminds me of Eeyore sometimes.
Just an artifact of video compression
ROFL, at :05 from right to left it's Hear No Evil, See No Evil, DGAF
His heart must be racing, like 2-3 more beats per minute than normal!
Bet that calmness is great when the CNC machines go down in the middle of a production run, though...
I wish you guys the best of luck! I agree and have said many times, the modern AR has deviated from the original concept considerably. It transformed from a light weight infantry rifle into a rifle, once fully kitted out, to an underpowered yet over weight infantry rifle. When the current M4 with kit weighs as much as a M14 but shoots 5.56 something has been lost in the concept. However, I think more needs to be done at a military level (not the consumer level) to get back to the roots of the AR concept. We need to look at reducing the weight and complexity of the force multipliers currently in use like the PEQ's, Knights rails, ACOG optics, lights, etc.
I was at the Beretta factory and I recall seeing a very early prototype of a integrated force multiplier system for their then new ARX100/160 (such a shame this rifle has died off). It's only failure point I could see from my brief introduction was it required a battery pack to power the system. If the battery gets damaged in combat or otherwise dies -- you lose all force multipliers. I digress as this is something clearly only big money (governmental) can resolve.
What you guys are trying to do at the end user level is as good as it gets without some serious money being tossed at a super light weight integrated yet modular force multiplier package (optic, IR laser, white light, etc.). Remember the optic that the XM8 used? Imagine what they could do now...
Anyway, here's to many sales for you and Brownells! 👍🇺🇸
Since when has the military been able to hold a candle to the private sector when it comes to R&D? Everything that the military needs to improve the M-16 in every way already exists on the civilian market. It all just needs to be pieced together.
In fact, that`s exactly what these guys are doing. None of the parts (except for the lower) were made exactly with this project in mind. InRange is pulling from stuff that already exists in the market.
I love how active Brownells is right now.supporting the gun community and putting out actually interesting products that are not just glock / ar "upgrades"
same here. The retro line has been interesting to see develop over time.
As a Canadian I have a special place in my heart for brownells. Many firearm parts can be extremely difficult to get with the state of ITAR and they are one of the only companies that facilitates this this - an excellent service.
@@technoruffles7747 shhhhhh but it has the special sauce
There are really only 2 ARs that I have any interest in. A Vietnam M16 clone, and WWSD. Brownells has their finger on my pulse specifically.
It's nice to have a local (to me) company doing this kind of product development. I'll be looking very hard at the available options when the parts/rifles are released.
The CNC guy is cool. Just press play and he explains what he is asked and then shuts up. No bullshit.
He's like that with shooting, too. Just press play and he clears the stage, no bullshit.
You reminded me of this one quote from Silicon Valley.
"He doesn't call me anything. He grimly does his work, then sits motionlessly until is time to work again. We could all take a page from his book"
All these comments about 80%.
1) the atf previously ruled that the MKII was a fire arm as soon as two halves existed in the same place.
2) they would not issue a ruling on only one half made at a time.
3) other polymer designs with any kind of seam or markings between the two halves have been ruled beyond 80%.
4) Mold design and production is expensive. Doing an 80% would require different inserts. And there’s no way to know if it would be approved until one was made and submitted.
Given all of these things the specific manufacturing processes of the monolithic polymer receiver make approval unlikely and an expensive proposition to find out if it would be.
Our focus is on bringing a working, reliable durable firearm to market in the shortest amount of time possible.
I had this question about 80% and I appreciate you answering it with the depth and completeness you provided. I'm "disappointed" in that I truly enjoy the process and participation that an 80% brings, but I also enjoy the grey-area middle finger legality-wise. It would be fun to do a 2-gun with ghost weapons, but by no means does this change anything for me... I am so 100% in on this project. Won't be at shot show but I will be following the progress on this as much as possible.
Yeah I hear that, but... Do an 80
But will it have an inrangetv logo etched onto it? Most important upgrade needed
The seal of approval
The InRange seal of hubris (tm).
The stamp of hubris
Be still my fluttering heartstrings....
no were both crying manly tears of joy
THEIR NOT TEARS I JUST GOT VODKA IN MY EYE
Ian is excited, Karl is Karl, and Russell is a Terminator.
I'm sure he's smiling on the inside, but I'm damn sure I don't want to play poker with that man.
“Fully assembled rifle.”
Goodbye, disposable income . It was nice having you while it lasted.
I’m going into super duper save mode right now.... do I really need 2 kidneys? Lol
"Goodbye, disposable income . It was nice having you while it lasted." LOLOLOLOLOL!!!! Yeah huh?!!!
Disposable income? What is that you are referring to? I am not familiar with that concept!
Just failed NoNutNovember thanks to Inrange
this is the funniest thing I have read in a very long time!
Isn't Ian's advice usually "don't" when someone asks him how to design a gun, get it manufactured, and bring it to market?
That answer is almost always If you're trying to bring a new design To the market This isn't exactly a new design And he said right now AR's, Ak's, and Glocks are the about the only guns that really still sell really well.
All the hard work has been done. AR building is just slapping parts together.
Ian usually refers to bringing a rifle to the market on your own. If you are working for an established company the risk is on the company and not on you.
His advice for pre ordering is also don’t, but I think this is an exception to that rule.
I seem to remember that when he's given a more in depth answer on that he's mentioned a couple of exceptions: making an incremental improvement to an established system, and working with an established company. I'd say he's listening to his own advice pretty well.
I like the concept. I just hope the price point is competitive so they will sell well.
same here
Per my recollection the parts on their own were about 1,800? And economy of scale will mean that the price should not increase in any meaningful fashion
Price point compared to what? That is the question. Compared your intro AR build kit? No. Compared a Daniel Defense? Perhaps.
@@MrDmitriRavenoff Priced similarly to what they were a few years ago when they actually had the lowers in stock.
$99.95 per KE Arms website
By far the best candidate for 2020 that I've seen! You definitely have my vote.
I never thought I would want a single-piece polymer lower, but here I am waiting for more info.
A complete WWSD rifle? I will buy this.
I will too. What do you think the final price is going to be?
@@MattCellaneous If it somehow comes at under or around a grand I'll honestly be surprised. They will be using high end parts as well as developing a new lower receiver which makes me doubtful but man I really hope it is. I'd love to have one, I still want one of the original WWSD rifles.
biggboysouth 1200-1500 is my guess.
@@MattCellaneous Well I think the parts for the original project came out to be in the $2,000.00 + range.
@Jack Benton Well, I already blew my wad (triple entendre). I scored a M1941 Johnson, it's a Dutch one and I couldn't be happier, such a fun rifle. I'm going to the range with my M1 and M1941 and I'm going to see which one's better (the M1 is) once and for all. So yet another AR-15 is just going to have to wait.
I find it so awesome that the two of you through extensive analysis of history, and weapon design, are bringing to light a spiritual successor to the AR platform we haven't ever really seen on the civilian marketplace. Hell, ANY marketplace for that matter. I wish you guys all the luck in this project! This truly does seem to be an overhaul of EVERYTHING we consider 'modern' or 'common' on the AR platform, and for that alone, I must commend you guys!
And announced on Stoners birthday no less. Well played.
Tim from Military arms channel gets a bracket named after him added to a PSA 9mm ak.
Karl and Ian literally pieced together what they believe to be the best modern ar build and because of their hard work it’s going to become a production rifle.
I think Inrange just had a hold my scotch moment.
Instead of giving the variants boring "numbers" etc., they should call them the "Ian", and the "Karl"
Well.. since they're polymer there will be someone who burns their names into those lowers. Like with no stencil or proper tool, just with a heated nail or something. It is inevitable.
@@Kremit_the_Forg take the receiver to a maker space and have them laser engrave or cnc whatever you want on it
@@GunFunZS Thank you for sharing your experience
don't forget Russel!
OH MY GOD OFFICIALLY LICENCED INRANGE/FORGOTTEN WEAPONS FIREARMS.
2020 might be alright after all.
This is hands down the most exciting project since the British rationing series.
Shut up and take my money! (Disclaimer: Assuming we are not talking Scar money here)
oh HECK YEAH. I'm so glad this is making the comeback we've been waiting for.
This is rad, the complete rifle part surprised me and I have been following pretty closely
Lol, Ian and Carl are basically firearms designers now. You guys have done so much for this industry, and WWSD rifle was hugely influencing, and I think this one will also be good for the industry.
I wonder if they purposefully posted this on Eugene Stoner's birthday.
I personally wouldn't bet on an accident . . .
There are no coincidences.
I have two original CAV ARMS lowers, and I gotta say they're good from the get go, IMPROVEMENTS will make this an awesome weapon system and the mere fact it'll be new parts and product improved WILL be epic.
Been waiting to get a GWACS lower and was afraid that I missed my chance. So just have to say, you guys are awesome!
Congratulations you guys on this exciting new endeavor! It must be amazing to see your once small project idea now being placed in partnership with two of today's premier firearms retailers!
Funny thing, I bought have parts sans reciever for my own WWSD right after the GWACs lowers dried up. I was going to sell them, but I guess I will complete my build instead.
So happy to support this channel. This is awesome!
The only AR I’ve ever had is my 12 pound high power competition setup. When this is available I will gladly pick one up.
Well there's a purchase I wasn't anticipating in 2020. Kudos to you for impacting the industry in such a way.
You can't anticipate anything in 2020
i feel like we haven't seen Russell in a while. nice to see him back on the channel.
I am very excited for this. the Mk II that I got for my WWSD rifle was missing the roll pin hole for the bolt release and the way the receiver is designed I could not drill out the hole even with an extra long bit. I macgyvered a hole using unorthodox methods that would make even the most novice gunsmith cringe (hint polymer melts). routing out the pdq slot was a fun experience but nice to know that it will be present. I really jived with the concept of the original wwsd project and I credit it exclusively for taking me from a milsurp collector into the 21st century. my current iteration is still to spec of the original plan except I swapped the flash hider for a dead air Keymo flash hider and superlative gas block. Thanks for keeping this project alive!
Ironically brownells has a redirect for EU peeps, not sure how to get to that landing page.
Have you tried vpn?
That is being fixed right now...
@@ForgottenWeapons thanks!
Try a VPN.
@Forgotten Weapons: Great. I'm really hoping that they will be offering it over here in Germany as well. I've been looking for a real AR to go with my H&K MR223.
In addition to all the good stuff this great team is bringing us, you've also given us heads up enough to save for a WWSD 2020, so that we might have the funds directly available when they can be purchased. A delightful little cherry on top. Can't wait!
Name one thing this “Superior” AR rifle will do that my Mosin Nagant won’t do... worse
Pole vaulting
Need to be beaten open after it gets warm lol.
"Not be a Garbage Rod?"
And yes, this is a stupid, bad joke from TFB that Alex C. made that I agree with him about what makes a Mosin great.
Bayonet fighting.
You'll bend the pencil barrel or shatter the polymer stock. If you win, you'll have to pick up the enemy's weapon.
whoosh lol
I think it's really cool of Brownells to step up and host the video content not allowed by RUclips.
Back when I was first getting in to AR's I found the Brownells series of instructional videos to be the best intro to AR assembly.
Will the "too spicy for RUclips" videos be coming only to Brownells or also to the alternate distribution locations?
SgtKOnyx ‘alternate distribution locations’
You mean, pornhub, right? xD
@@unfortunately_fortunate2000 bit chute, and a bunch of others, im not sure if the pornhub page is even running still. but check out karl's youtube policy change video for more info.
This is ENORMOUSLY exciting! Yes, I looked for lowers right after WWSD, and I couldn't find any available. I'm thrilled to death that you guys are taking this to the next level -- and I'll certainly be hand for an armful of lowers -- and so will some buddies. I also like the sound of your proposed changes. My suggestion (my HEARTFELT suggestion): 80% WWSD stripped lowers. Let's START SOMETHING!!
Maybe Brownells can do what HMG couldn't with the StG-44
I don't think they'd touch that. Everything they've done so far has relied heavily on the use of existing mass-produced parts, which is why they can sell their guns at a reasonable price and make a profit. Building a rifle from scratch is another thing entirely. Unless all you really want is an AK chambered in 7.92×33mm Kurz, and configured to *look* as much as possible as a StG-44. That would be right up their alley.
I had wanted to follow along with your build during the last WWSD project, stymied by a lack of lower availability. I’m pretty excited to watch for the KE arms version. Get on it Sinistral!
I remember in a video, stating that the use of non captive takedown pins was a downside with the original lower design. Are captive takedown pins a possibility on this new lower design? If not and you're still going to be using non captive pins, will there be a compartment somewhere to store them like say the holes in the stock of a G36 or G3?
Good suggestion. Also, the CavArms lowers initially had extra-long versions of the non-walk hammer and trigger pins available, but those ran out early on and I don't think GWACS ever offered them. If there's a recommended solution when using, say, drop-in trigger assemblies, I hope that info will get out there. Stock length pins end up recessed at both ends - a bit disconcerting. Yeah, the receiver wall is thicker, but it still looks like the pins are walking out.
once you get the rifle apart just put them back in their normal holes. I mean, there's only two of them.
Just one more reason to love Brownells... as if I needed any more! Thank you, Brownells!
The hype is real, so excited for this!
I've been wanting to make a WWSD my self and now you guys have brought the whole project to the next level. I'm excited for you guys
Ive been waiting for this and im even more excited seeing whos involved with the new project
Hooray! One of my favorite series is coming back. Thanks for the quality content guys.
Need one? Nope
Want one? Yes
Buy one? Oh hell yes.
You guys are making my Milsurp collecting harder and harder.
Awesome, I am very excited for this! Can't wait to see the updates and get my own WWSD rifle!
I’ve been waiting for this announcement for almost a year 🎉🎉🎉
This made me happy. I had forgotten how that feels. Thanks guys.
I'm really wondering about the Faxon Gunner profile vs. pencil say for an 18" - hmmmmm
I guess I'll have to build both uppers and compare them for fun
lexwaldez I’m building a 20” and I feel the slight weight increase is warranted for having a less whippy barrel at those lengths. A 16 or 14.5” would be pencil all the way.
Honestly, this has been a banger of a year and it just got better
Smile!
Looks great! So you got past the “I’ll never be a gun designer!” thing? Great! We salute you!!
This isn't them really "designing" a gun, as they've often said. They're assembling a specific pattern of AR with (formerly/eventually) off the shelf parts.
The risk is there. Also the manufacturing of the part, a somewhat unique part actually, requires a tremendous coordinated effort. It is more impressive than say a charging handle or handguard. So sure it isn’t strictly new rifle but it is a significant part of a modular system.
@@billmccrackin8825 That's true as well. But it's still a part that has a pre-existing demand, both for the part itself and for the gun it goes on.
@@billmccrackin8825 It's a modernization and slight improvement of an existing design, they've got experienced manufacturers and distributors involved, and there's an established demand for the product. This is as low-risk as it's possible for such things to be.
Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy! Are you purposefully trying to make my decision on which Brownells AR I want, even harder? Thank you KE for taking on the project of manufacturing polymer lowers. I hope this explodes, in a good way.
Guys keep it up and the WWSD2020 is going to end up being a Commercial Off the Shelf purchase for many a special ops unit. And then the US Army is just going to have to switch because all the cool kids are doing it. My beloved Corps will unfortunately find something heavier and more expensive than even the current HK offering that doesn't play well with M855A1 and thus breaks a lot. [shrugs]
PS : you showed everyone the internal support pattern. The DefCAD people are going to be 3D printing this thing out of Matter-Hackers NylonG by sometime next week.
If I'm not mistaken, the WWSD project did not take durability as a must. It sure was made to last, and in Arizona ranges nonetheless, but that's for the convenience of not having parts break on you. I don't think it would last an Aberdeen trial.
I was excited for the WWSD 2017 rifle, but did not have time to build one even if I could have found a lower. I can however come up with the $ to buy a complete rifle. Thanks for putting this together.
I have an original, CavAid 2008 lower, with a RRA A2 pencil upper on it. So light. Now you have me wanting to spend more money.
I have four Sabre Defense branded Cav Arms lowers, waiting to be built into LightSabres.
@@timmooney7528 nice! I love it.
This makes me so happy they are doing this project again.
The six people that downvoted this video are mad because they just got their hands on a mk2 lower off Armslist for $250+
@Cyrus Freeman Gotta move fast before word of the mk3 spreads too far!
I'm absolutely going to be picking up a lower or two. Very happy to say I support this channel with my own $$$.
Can’t wait for this to come on the market saving my penny’s already
You guys are force multipliers, great work!
Well this is rather exciting. I’ve never been interested in polymer lowers but If InRange and the tactical chub are involved then I’m down!
Absolute kudos to KE Arms and Brownells! Congrats to the WWSD project - VERY COOL!
Will this lower be able to use standard takedown pins? I was not crazy about how the old Gwacs lower did not have captive take down pins.
Feroce sounds like they will be captive but proprietary. It sounds like the same retaining system in a socket wrench.
IIRC drilling channels for captive pin detents was dropped due to slight dimensional variances would affect precise drilling near the pivot pin
Dudes, I literally just rewatched that series this week and then saw this video and the IG post. So stoked.
Jim Sullivan is still alive. You should get him in on this.
He said he was thinking of the constant recoil system. Which is not possible on an AR.
@Michael Meyer That is what he was talking about, there was a misunderstanding.
There is no continuous recoil system for an AR-15. I suppose it's possible, but it would be very difficult to implement on an AR, and require extensive modifications.
More than a decade ago I built a lightweight AR for hunting based on the Cav Mk2 lower. Used a Cardinal Armory 6.8spc 16" pencil barrel, Clark carbon handguard, and a SP1 BCG. Scope mount has since been changed to an Aero Precision with a VX3i 1.5-5 scope. It's just a hair under 6 lbs. Still use it regularly. Glad to see the lower coming back.
Eugine Stoner : Pride
😇😇😇
This In my opinion is awesome I found the original wwsd videos about a year ago during my research into my build since then I have become an avid watcher and a supporter of inrange
Oh how I wish I lived in a free country where I could support KE and Brownells and get their awesome products.
Thank you gents. Best news I've heard in a while. Top marks.
I'd like to see a more vertical grip angle, but otherwise this is very exciting.
that's the only part I'm disappointed about. Angled pistol grips aggravate my carpal tunnel
I mean I get it, most people are used to a standard MOE style grip or similar angle, and it's gonna be a mass market item.
Having the distribution via Brownells is brilliant since they are one of the very few US stores that ship to EU.
I was secretly hoping for an A5 buffer tube with a spacer for people who wrongly want the carbine buffers.
HYPE! That series was amazing... can't WAIT for season 2!!!!
Please tell me we get in range logos on the receivers
And a mark of hubris on the opposite side.
Thank God, I just found your videos on WWSD rifle and I was really excited to see a good polymer lower. Thanks for launching this stuff guys.
Right, as if I needed another excuse to buy more stuff from KE Arms and Brownells. I'm going to need a second job...
Yip....literally popping out of his skin......I know ços I saw his fingers twitch! OMG!
THANK YOU!!! You guys are awesome! InRangeTV & KE Arms FTW!
I hope it will be available in switzerland....
BUT IF IT IS GOD YES I WILL BUY IT
@@V4MPYR1055 Brownells Europe is hosting the WWSD video so I'm hopeful.
I'm assuming that Ian and Karl want Bloke to speak to them again, so probably.
Russell's enthusiasm is overwhelming...
This is really exciting, I haven’t been excited about the AR in a long time. We’re spoiled, the rifle is so good it’s boring.
tommydeadwood I tell my kids boring and consistent is good but they don't believe me.
*Looking forward to what your final product looks and performs like. Best of luck to you.*
Can you make the grip angle steeper since you can’t change it out
No.
InRangeTV well I tried 😂
Steeper grip doesn't make sense with a fixed Stock.
I'd like to see a more vertical grip angle than shown in the drawing. It's more comfortable than standard AR angle.
Ben Tuovila why wouldn’t it ? It’s more comfortable
You should find a way to make the stock adjustable. Since the stock is fixed, maybe you could make it so you can add spacers to the end of the stock so you could make it longer
If Ian is Gun Jesus Russell is Gun Eeyore
I'm SUPER excited about this. I was one of those people who checked on the Cav Arms lowers but found they weren't available, I told myself "Well, I guess that does it for that". Again, I can't wait for this!!!
Can we get a 308 AR version this time? That was one of my biggest disappointments from GWACS
I just started watching the WWSD series last week. Good timing
I would say there is a demand I watched a WWSD sell for 1800 on gun broker.
To say I'm excited for this would be the understatement of the year.
Are they going to get money out of this?
Bad Ass fellas, BRILLIANT! congrats on the new project and Bravo Sir’s on the group of people on your Project Team! Im still enjoying my MK2 Lower and look forward to your MK3. I believe The Faxon Gunner Series upper is still the best option for this build, looking forward in seeing what y’all cone up with.
👍🏻👍🏻🤟🏻🙏🏼🤩