What Would Stoner Do? (WWSD) Rethinking the AR15 in 2017 - Introduction
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
- We're frequently asked what we think the best AR15 build should be and, upon thinking about it, we realized no one was doing it the way we would if we did..so we did it ourselves.
By aggregating parts from a multitude of vendors we've come up with an interesting approach to what we think the AR15 could, and should have been as it was modernized and "improved".
In other words, in 2017, What Would Stoner Do?
This video is the introduction to the concept.
We plan to have a lot of content around this project: flushing it out, competing with it, training with it, and explaining every individual bit, piece and detail in depth!
Please note that we're now simultaneously releasing our videos on our intentionally demonetized RUclips channel, Facebook, Full30. Please spread the word, and share, share, SHARE!
InRange is now a truly viewer supported endeavor. Your support on Patreon is critical - thank you to everyone who has stepped up to that plate!
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Sometimes, late at night, when no one else is around, I tap the forward assist.
I just think they're neat
🤣
Just gotta learn how to use em', my technique is 2 fingers, counterclockwise.
Love the free range, locally sourced, organic microphone stand.
Cruelty free! ~Karl
As I read this he bumped the branch.
@@SomeGuysg p
Watching this in late April 2020, after watching a bunch of later WWSD videos, really shows how far the project has come, while still being true to the original concept. You guys really have come along way with this project, im really impressed.
Function over form. And when a machine is designed to work properly, it is beautiful in and of itself. There is beauty in function.
This is largely true for tools and weapons, but not for architecture: Soviet Eastern Block square, grey, concrete-slab, apartment buildings are very functional and also soul crushingly ugly.
@@ArcherWarhound I suppose you can count it's industrial aesthetic?
And in simplicity
17:17 - 17:22
Now I'm just picturing a battlefield scenario where some troops are hunkered down in some forsaken urban wasteland. A stray bullet flies by and hits one of the soldiers' optics. He does a bewildered double take, exchanges a few glances with his buddies, pops off the damaged optic and throws it off to the side, before promptly producing a fresh one from his pouch to replace it with; all without uttering a word.
I like the distinction Karl makes between left-handed and "normal" :)
normal is sort of the term it can be used here, as righthandedness is what most things are designed around
I want one.
Seriously, this may be how I start my first AR build when my budget allows. For now I'm just budgeting $1 per month to keep the great content coming.
Ian goes from England to Arizona in just a few hours ;)
Just realized why there was a tree branch in between you guys is for mounting the mic.
Very compelling builds
DMR Rifle - designated marksmen rifle rifle
I'm just going to the ATM machine to get some cash money to buy my DMR rifle, ok seeya bye.
You beat me to it. ;)
DMRR.... Rifle
more like "DMR" rifle, DMR is the term, rifle is what it is.
ofc if you spell it out that way, it'll look like it's redundant
Seraph SVD Dragunov or Sniper Rifle, System of Dragunov, Model of the Year 1963 Dragunov
"Mine has a retched eticle." Caught that, lol.
Must be one of PAs new smart eticle. Those guys are smart
He'd likely had made it from carbon fiber. After all, he was going for an incredibly lightweight but strong material that was very modern.
Carbon fiber today, is what aluminum was in the 1950's.
You guys led me to the GWACS lower. Best purchase I ever made. Forgotten Weapons led me to The Great War channel. Thank you.
Looking forward for more AR stuff. Thanks for a video!
Only two points to mention:
1. Iron sights. Of course, bullet hit the scope, is way too rare, but you can drop rifle or accidently bump it against something. Small folding irons would help and not so much additional weight.
2. If you're talking about 'general issue' infantry rifle, adjustable buttstock would be a benefit. Different size soldiers, vests, gear, personal prefernces...
Anyway, excellent video, keep up a good work!
Maybe in a decade we could have a "What would Kalashnikov do?" series for the 80th anniversary of the AK's adoption.
I mean what he would do is just not make the rifle. He has gone on record saying he deeply regrets designing something that has caused so many deaths :/
@@sword7166 I would've asked him what it was he thought he was designing then, pretty sure he knew what he was doing from the get go, regret at this stage is an effort in futility.
HSS Revenir In that regard, I think I have an idea; the original AK-47 mission is a general-purpose fully automatic rifle for the infantryman, tuned towards machine gun capability from how the assault rifle was understood to be used from the StG-44's example. In Kalashnikov's original words, "I was a soldier, and I created a machine gun for a soldier."
Durability, stability and reliability seem like the watchwords, and ergonomics would be too - this should be used the way an infantryman would expect to use it in battle.
Post MORE! Im planning to build my first AR off of your opinions, and Im so anxious to see the mentality and rationality behind these builds.
The real reason for iron sights to back up the optics in my opinion is not the ever so slight chance that the optic gets hit by a bullet but the extremely much more common scenario when the gun gets dropped and the optic is either broken or shifted as to make it useless. No amount of modern manufacturing can guarantee that dropping the gun will never cause problems and it would be foolish to assume that it would never happen in combat when issuing weapons. C-Mon guys.
Davis King they're posers. don't expect too much.
They aren't posers, they just aren't military. There are a number of things that wouldn't fly on a combat rifle that work just fine for a home defense or even law enforcement setup. Also, Karl and Ian both pointed out that this is the Mk 1 of the WWSD, the prototype, not the final evolution.
@Tanner Clark correct me if I'm wrong, but neither ACOG had a qr mount, right? I was M16A2 era so I wouldn't know. If the shooter can remove the broken optic flip up BUS can be useful. Otherwise they are extra weight.
It's shameful how much I'm geeking out over this series.
Love the Idea would add a few things for the "basic" infantrymen 1. PEQ 16 or other lighter variants (totally understandable not to have because of cost) 2. A damn good sling (vickers sling we love it in the Corps.) The capabilities of the PEQ gives to the infantrymen to fight at night can not be understated. Also the RCO is an amazing optic interested to see if you have found anything as good that's lightweight. Love this idea and wish it the Best!
The idea of a solar-powered optic is such a simple, obvious thing that I'm kicking myself for not coming up with it myself. What are the dimensions of the actual solar panel, and where is it located? I imagine you'd get away with something very small and the obvious place is on top, but you find solar panels in surprising places sometimes.
It's right on the top www.amazon.com/HOLOSUN-HS403C-Solar-Power-Micro/dp/B00U2KMVCI
You're talking about your scope getting hit by a bullet, but what about just dropping the gun on it? Are you 100% confident that it can survive such a fall and are you willing to bet your life on it? Back-up irons are literally about 100 grams and would provide a fail-safe in a possible situation.
andrewlitvinov My rifle fell off of a shooting table (about 4' height) onto concrete and landed solely on the Eotech, dented the hood pretty bad but it saved the optic. I called Eotech to buy a new one and they sent it for free. A good sight with great protection and excellent customer service. I can see foregoing irons, but it can't hurt to have'em on either for a couple extra ounces. I could go either way.
cirE Please get rid of China = bad quality! You get in China/Asia what you pay for.
modern military optics are usually rated to fall on the scope onto concrete from 10 ft w/o damage
Have you ever used iron sights? Because I don't think you have... or any sights at all for that matter.
I believe it was 704tactical did multiple drop tests and abuse tests on a cheap off brand $40 Amazon red dot and damn near could not break the thing or knock it far off zero. I'd hope a name brand piece is going to be must better.
PA makes some of my favorite budget optics and the ACSS is hands-down the best BDC reticle on the market today, but the 2.5x Prism was a big let down for me. The reticle goes off the path of the standard ACSS where the holds are marked with a single dot as opposed to the standard solid vertical line with horizontal lines for holds. The dots on the 2.5x are VERY tough to see against almost all terrain and targets. The 3x, which has the standard ACSS style reticle is the one to go with here assuming you would like to stick with a low power optic in this price range. Great optic for the price and very hard to beat.
The fact that the military is still using the basic AR design, albeit modified/updated, from six decades back is amazing!
I'm glad you guys decided to roll with a fixed power optics, advantage being once you learn your distances, you simply sight and shoot.
Great video, can't wait to see the upcoming series!
What would Stoner do today - a great idea for a video series. Looking forward to it!
One of you needs to be wearing a bow tie, though. :)
Watching ForgottenWeapons and InRangeTV ofcourse.
Kawaiiser Wilhelm II Von Hohenzollern lamest joke I'll read today
This is the only channel to get me excited about an AR video (series).
If I was limited to just one channel on RUclips your channel would be the one I would choose (forgotten weapons would be my second choice). Absolutely fantastic, interesting and inspirational work. Thank you!
I've been saving up for the Faxon Barrel like the one on your door kicker. This video series has me really excited. Thanks!!!
I'm excited for this series of videos! I just built an SBR with a faxon barrel and love it! Thanks for introducing the company to me. That little 10.5" barrel is awesome and more accurate than I am (sub 1" group at 50yrds with a 2 moa red dot optic)!!! Keep up the awesome content! I'm looking at my finances now to become a patrion and I also just want you to know that I support not only your content but your decision to solely rely on us for your funding. You guys are by far my favorite gun channel.
you two have good chemistry and are pretty articulate at explaining your thoughts. good work
On the bolt catch issue, what I could immediately think of was a rod that would be impinged by the follower, a spring for said rod, a T handle to allow the rod to be manipulated, and a roll pin or other fastener to hold the T handle to the rod. There would be a hole drilled vertically from the top of the lower to the trigger guard area (which would inevitably intersect the magazine catch hole, largest issue btw).
An alternative that I just thought of would be incorporating the mag catch as part of the assembly (as a fulcrum). The user would push forward to lock the bolt. The latch would be inside the trigger guard but again shaped like an inverted T with the arms pointed out to either side.
Coming back and watching this in 2022 is really cool. Very very glad Karl and Ian have inquisitive minds and glad that this came into fruition. I have a CDR and it is, by far, my favorite rifle in regards to just general use and whatnot. It's hard to NOT be impressed with it all
I'm not an ar guy, I'll admit I like steel and wood guns. after watching your channel for awhile now, when money allows, up be looking at putting together one. I have a feeling it will have close to yours. through all the videos, your ideas have been very close to many of my own. i look forward to much more. keep up the good work.
I love the vision of this series,it would also be cool to see you guys do a re-envision of the scout rifle concept.
Brilliant idea for a video series, Your creativity is second only to Eugene Stoner himself!
Really looking forward to seeing the deep dives. Keep up the good work, guys!
Regards change of projectile. The NZ army is making a shift from 62 gr to 77 gr with the acquisition of our new LMT M4's. The idea being a extension from the 300m battle to the 600m after experienced gained in Afghanistan where we were caught abit short. There was extensive trialing (for us anyway) done to validate this shift but the only arguments against or cons to be overcome was the availability of ranges out to 600m for weapons qualification and training and ammunition cost. Otherwise it was very positive in making the shift. Or so I have been told.
Thanks for this episode (and others), love how you get into the specifics and engineering behind it all.
Kind regards
Shane
As someone about to start a new build, I look forward to the rest of this series.
I'm excited for this project! The Falkor Dracos and the Proof research carbon fiber barrels both seem like they're the future imo. Maybe you will talk about that more in the deep dive for the barrel.
Really looking forward to this series! I think the two of you are uniquely positioned and qualified to do this. I think this is going to be a definitive and very influential series when you're done.
I've been waiting for this video series since you guys hinted at it!
wretched etticle. love it. Ian and his big words.
Looking forward to the series, this is good timing. I have many AR builds that are just a bunch of parts I picked up because of a sale. Now it's time to make sense of these builds! Thanks guys
I came back to re-watch this, and it is pretty interesting to see how this project evolved and is now even being reignited to produce WWSD 2020. It's incredible to see especially how Ian's rifle evolved, as it certainly had the most obvious changes, but even to see how Karl's evolved as well, just with less obvious appearance differences. It certainly speaks to the versatility of the AR15 platform. Now with WWSD 2020, I hope to finally build my own WWSD rifle.
OMG I can't wait. I am so excited for this series!
I love this series! There are thousands of AR "manufacturers" who sell roughly the same stuff. Why not push the boundaries a bit and see where we go with the platform.
So glad you guys are doing an AR content series! I cannot wait!
really appreciate this. want to build my own AR but in an over saturated market its hard to know where to start. for someone whose just been around hunting rifles for 20+ years and looking for new experience, this is exciting to see.
This is my favorite video series idea I've seen in a very long time.
I am so looking forward to seeing the rest of this series! Thanks for keeping awesome content rolling.
I am looking forward to this WWSD 2017 series.
I'm glad I haven't bought an AR yet. Can't wait to see what you have come up with so I can start with the one that suit me best. My chronologic rifle collection is up to WWII so please don't wait to long to get the content out ;)
I really like the concept that you are describing here in this video. I'm looking forward to your future videos. Personally, I would be uncomfortable without iron sights.
I had been thinking of asking the question "what do you think is the next step in firearms design" and I think this series stands the chance of answering that question, or at least pointing to what the next AR/AK will look like. The idea to return to the original goals of the weapons system with a half century technological advantage is a fascinating one. Karl's comment about looking at the design from a more end to end perspective was also interesting. I'm interested to see the results of the tests. One thing that I'd like to suggest is handing the guns to some novice shooters and seeing how they function with it. You guys know what you like, how the systems run etc. If this is a "theoretical" military rifle having a novice shooter run them would potentially be an informative test.
Thanks again for all the work
AR15 MythBusters? Sounds like an interesting series.
Having used just about every configuration of AR over four decades...I still go back to the SP1....or M16A1...the M4 ain't bad.
SP1 with wood on it... Get back to the Mojave.
This is among the most historically important videos on RUclips, IMHO.
Thank you!
16:16 Primary Arms and those "Retched Eticles" - next level stuff! Great vid guys. Very interesting choices - looking forward to the POI shift tests.
You guys must have had more fun at this year's shot show. You found a reason to get excited about some of the 1001 AR parts and accessories on the market.
Cant wait for the series to continue.
This should be interesting. I had a chance to handle Ian's rifle, and it certainly feels light and well balanced. I was impressed.
Exciting project. Looking forward to hearing about the triggers.
You guys gotta slow your roll with the high quality content! I only have so much time in the day to watch awesome stuff.
In all seriousness, great vid and I'm really looking forward to more in this series. Glad to finally see some of it after you guys teased it a bit.
cool video canny wait to see the rest. Very interesting topic a big thumbs up
Great video, first time visiting your channel. I was questioning the validity of this video until I recognized Ian from forgotten weapons.
Hey, excellent content! Some other innovations you might be interested in: DSArms titanium gas blocks and flash hider, Next Intent Tactical adjustible titanium gas blocks, Vltor A5 buffer systems (if you want to retain a collapsible stock), Griffin Armament QD blast shields, Aero Precision enhanced uppers (much improved barrel nut system). There are SO MANY new innovations which improve this already great rifle.
I have been so excited for this video! I love what y'all do and will be signing up for patreon this evening. Thank you.
great concept guys, I'm looking forward to the rest of the videos
I really like the logic behind this.
Lovely weapons gentlemen. Can't wait to see that fancy bipod for Ian's.
"Retched Eticle"
-Ian 2017
Great idea for a series; looking forward to it.
You two are a great team
Karl, one other way you can shave a couple of ounces is to go with the m lok version of the vertical grip. it's smaller and lighter and does not require the rail piece.
it would be nice if that lower had a streamlined or collapsable stock option
Super excited to see this series unfold. I wish there was a good polymer lower option that supported adjustable stocks, if there is I dont know of one.
I'm so glad I'm one of your patreons, you guys are fucking awesome!
Been looking forward to this for years! From ya'lls first Q&A vid, I was hoping you'd do this. Keep up the good work!
I’m trying to gather some further-on research about coatings and treatments, without any biases - only based on facts/trial testing. The ones I’m currently most interested in are, coatings: Cerakote Elite and Black Nickel; and treatments: QPQ (Blacknitride+ aka [plainly] Black Nitride) and RF85 (most commonly associated with Anderson Manufacturing).
From what I’ve gathered, all aforementioned have qualities of lubricity at varying levels and all have claimed lube-less functionality. I’m tending to gravitate more towards the said treatments because: one, it isn’t a coating/plating (known for flaking and/or chipping) and, two, it doesn’t change the dimensions of the original design by adding an additional thickness to any surface.
However, the Cerakote Elite coating boasts a highly durable and lubricious ceramic coating but at a very minuscule addition to the surface’s overall thickness. Also, very recently, I’ve learned about Black Nickel as being QPQ treatment but with a NiB coating (please correct my knowledge at any point). I don’t know much about Black Nickel, but of the whole list, this option I’m least interested with.
As for the treatments previously mentioned, I’m impressed thus far with RF85 but it is almost exclusive to Anderson. If I go straight to the company that provides the RF85 treatment to Anderson (for ferrous and non-ferrous metals), they require large batches of items for treatment at a minimum of “$5,000.” Anderson’s RF85 offerings claim to be “the world’s only lube-less rifle” with high benchmark test results for durability and reliability. I feel Anderson has a decent but limited RF85 lineup though. Lastly, QPQ - as like RF85 - is a treatment that goes through the whole thickness of the metal and not just at the surface. So if there is wear past the surface, the lubricious qualities are continuous throughout the entire thickness of the metal. Whereas, the said coatings would stop their lubricious qualities at the surface.
I write all of this because I’d like to create an AR build where I can - if need be - run the rifle completely dry for a prolonged period of time but still count on it being nearly 100% reliable. Additionally, the coatings and treatments on my research list also claim to have qualities of cleaning with ease.
I might catch some flack like, “just properly lube and clean your rifle.” I agree, knowing proper cleaning/lubing procedures and familiarizing with the mechanics of the rifle will always be beneficial to the owner. However, I’m on the hunt for the best possible upgrades - fitting my needs - available on the market. Thank you for reading this long winded message and for any insight that anyone can provide!
I am very excited for this series! I am so happy to have stumbled upon Inrange! I have been watching Forgotten Weapons for years. Both are gearhead firearm channels. I love it!
I am really digging the Thomas Kuhn stuff.
Brilliant idea! Thanks for all these awesome vids guys. Much appreciated!
Great Idea! Thanks guys. Looking forward to this.
The fwd assist on my military issued rifle was used quite a bit. Bent, old ammo needs help. So... ive used it a lot. Also had dozens of malfunctions probably ammo induced. So, yeah. Love to see how your rifles with real ammo actually works
You are the best nerds there is! GUN NERDS! I learn so much from you guys! Keep up the good work!
You guys are going to make me spend money.
"..so we did it ourselves."
Sometimes that's the best and only way.
You forgot to mention the free floating barrel. Nice video! I'm looking forward to more content and info.
Really cool concept guys. I recently built an AR with similar goals. Looking forward to the next vids!
Those Titan bipods are the bee's knees. Saw one on Demolition Ranch a while back.
Looking forward to watching the rest of this series, especially how the carbon bits hold up (those polymer lowers seem pretty indestructible though!)
Hey guys,
rarely comment on videos, but gotta say that I really appreciate your content. It's super nice to see videos where the hosts are not only (extremely) knowledgeable about firearms, but also act like mature adults. It seems too many of these other youtube channels are desperately trying to convince their viewers that the hosts are Ultra Manly Men™ and ultimately reinforcing the unfortunate stereotype of troglodyte gun owners.
Thanks again!
This looks excellent!! I am ready for these videos!!!
I'm really looking forward to the videos series on this!
Love the concept of the series and love the look of the rifles overall. Can't wait to see the details behind each part.
***
Some random ramblings.
From a purely logistical point of view, I wonder how the numbers would run by replacing all non-magnum rifle rounds with 6.5x39mm Grendel or equivalent. Also, with the proliferation of body armour, the extra mass and penetration is a welcome addition.
The math behind whether having 5.56 and 7.62 serve in different roles versus replacing them both with an "intermediate intermediate" would be interesting to see.
Also, for cool factor although entirely impractical for the build (and probably in general) would be to see if flechettes would be practical given the significant advances in smoothbore APFSDS tank munitions in the past two decades. With our newfound understanding of how they work, it may work. Or may not. Probably not. But just interesting overall.
Great concept for a series.
I'm excited for this video series, super creative idea guys this is gonna be awesome.
Great video, although I would design the rifles a bit differently. I would use a standard barrel (not pencil profile), a 4x scope for the DMR (I think ACOGs do okay at close range but Ian did have a good point about the CQB drawbacks of a 4x optic), BUIS for the infantry rifle, and adjustable stocks. I look forward to seeing these innovative designs in action!
I'm stoaked for this series!
the modified bolt release you're taking about exists, it's called the PDQ, I've got one on my AR and it's awesome.
the POF USA gen III does have a bolt release inside the trigger guard if you were looking for a lower with that function.
This is an exciting project! You guys are great!