Saga of the AR15 Forward Assist: A Solution Searching for a Problem
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- Опубликовано: 29 июл 2020
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In 1963, the US Army set out to purchase 85,000 AR-15 rifles as a one-time procurement to hold the infantry through until final adoption of the expected Project SPIW rifle. Where the previous Air Force purchases of the AR-15 had been simple over-the-counter transactions with Colt, the scale of this new contract prompted Robert McNamara to set up a committee to standardize the rifle requirements of all four service branches. One of the disputed items was the addition of a manual bolt closure device.
The Air Force, having tested the AR-15 for several years by this point, saw no need for such a device. The Army, however, insisted that it was necessary both as a confidence-building feature for the infantryman and because it might in some situation solve a malfunction. Today, let's discuss the sequence of events that led to the eventual January 1964 adoption of the now-familiar plunger type bolt closure device.
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Worked for kyle.
If I had an M&P 15, I would also want to forward assist on it.
@@ForgottenWeapons I can't even get mad at that as an M&P 15 user
@@ForgottenWeapons I feel very attacked right now
Yup. Worked for Kyle. After Rittenhouse shot domestic abuser skater boy Anthony Huber, who had just made the colossally stupid mistake of trying to take someone's rifle by grabbing it from the barrel and pulling it up into his chest, the next round didn't go fully into battery and Rittenhouse noticed the bolt open roughly an inch. This was after he cut Gaige Grosskruetz some slack and didn't shoot him on the spot. Noticing the round was not in battery Kyle Rittenhouse hit the forward assist. Grosskruetz seeing this thought Rittenhouse had a malfunction and decided this was an opportunity to shoot him in the face. What he didn't realize, being stupid and a Glock owner*, but I repeat myself, was that what he just witnessed was Rittenhouse fixing a malfunction and paid with his lifelong ability to jerk off with his right hand.
Say what you will about the forward assist but here is a documented instance where it did exactly what it was supposed to do.
*Opinion offered solely for the purpose of kicking the hornet's nest for shits and giggles.
Our boy is free now
If you enjoyed this video, smash that forward assist button...
TimcastIRL right?👍
Smashed!
but then it may fail to extract. Im not sure the button should be pushed!
Enjoyed but cannot like bc 223 likes
Hit the subscribe button at 200 yards and finish with the bell
One of my favorite quotes about the army: "if it ain't broke, we'll fix it until it is."
ernstbergerbrent And so many people will never fully understand the level stupidity that the Army can somehow operate under until they see it first hand. 🤣
We always used to say if you want to know if it can be broken, give it to a grunt, he will break it.
-The US Engineer Corp, destroying the Everglades
My employer seems to operate on the same philosophy.
@@TheMuffs2004 or if you had family in the army i heard once about a moron SSG (the dude who runs explosive course prob that rank) telling a new recruit to carry blasting caps (y'know the shit used to start c4 explosions) on his arm and run with them well that guy got thrown out and the recruit died.... and a fuckton about being on bases how you have to play politics much more than focus on merits if you want any rank past specialist (E-2 i think that's literally a slightly better grunt)
Forward assist: "Is your rifle slightly jammed? Use forward assist to take that jam to the next level"!
The Jam enhancer!
@@ParoXyzmm sounds like what a certain Specialist Hazard stuck in Pt. Folk would say
@@WingMaster562 Indeed
If you’re ignorant you would say exactly that.
S.P.O.R.T.S.
Forward assist is step 5 after the jam is cleared. BUM.
If you’re ignorant you would say exactly that.
S.P.O.R.T.S.
Forward assist is step 5 after the jam is cleared. BUM.
Army: You need to do this this this and this before we can even consider adopting it
Air Force: **flips through latest firearms catalog**
Oh, AR15, looks nice!
**fills in the mail order card**
I’m picturing it as the person filling out the card writing *really* small to fit the order size in.
Sounds about right.
That's the luxury of buying something because it's on the list, but you know you'll never use it.
army brass: we want to go 100 fps faster. And they did. Dirty powder got it going faster but caused jams along with the get the bullet jammed in there button, called a forward assist. And what do ya have? Dead troops. But the bullet goes faster when its not jammed. Army brass are some of the dumbest things ever.
Colt admin: "oh cool an order for.... HOW MANY RIFLES?"
Ian is one of those rare persons who has actually read all the books behind him.
The book on the shelf "Assault Rifles" looks like it is to the right of Submachineguns of the world Vol. 1 & 11 by Musgrave and Nelson. All three (plus others) of which were the first cutting edge books on the subject.
Has Ian written any books?
@@spacecoyote6646 I know he wrote a portion of Larry Vickers WWII small arms book but I’m not sure about any full books.
@@etabmc Man, people really forget about Chassepot to Famas quick.
@@spacecoyote6646 if he hasn't, he should.
I was Air Force trained on this weapon. My instructor basically said "You have to know that thing is called a forward assist for purposes of training. If you have to use it, you are now considered to be in evade and survive mode."
They don't even mention it anymore unless you directly ask lol
or the Army with the M16 "carrying handle"- "if you have to know what this is called, it's called the carrying handle. Never under any circumstances carry your rifle by the carrying handle"
air force trained on this weapon lmfaoooooo
@@bobmcbob49 wait seriously? Why?
@@nomad155 "That isn't a briefcase, private! It's a freaking rifle! The only paperwork I want to see done with it is your zero card on the range! NOW BEAT YOUR FACE!" was the answer I got to that question.
As a kid I always wondered what that odd looking button was on the AR-15/M-16. Now, as an adult having qualified countless times on the M-16 in the military and owning a couple of AR-15s, I still wonder what that odd looking button is good for.
if your barrel is clocked it is better camming it forward than charging it and slamming the extension again. that's all i got.
As a kid I was playing original Counter Strike, and there is was a charging handle 😆 So I didn't have any question back then
Owning a ar15 you rarely get jams. But go work with an issues rifle either by government or private security company or whatever and the crap ammo you het supplied and jams aer quite common. Ammo based issues not rifle
i used that thing maybe once or twice, and that's probably because the rifle I was issued for qualification was beat to hell and back.
@@atpyro7920I used it once or twice too, but mainly just because it was a button and ADHD liked said button
Lol I love Stoner's response.
"I dunno, I choose neither. There's no point."
"Okay but you have to choose one."
"Fine, the Springfield one since it'll be easier to undo." Haha I love that.
But then, he thought that direct impingement was a good idea.
@@spvillanoIt is if your goal is the lowest recoil possible. It's not if you want maximum reliability and a good suppressor host. Considering the AR-15 was originally designed as a civilian sporting rifle, it makes plenty of sense for the platform.
@@taestott nice fish story, all about the one that got away...
'The ArmaLite AR-15 was designed to be a lightweight rifle and to fire a new high-velocity, lightweight, small-caliber cartridge to allow infantrymen to carry more ammunition.'
Infantrymen are decidedly not civilians or exceptionally sporting. I know that intimately, given I retired from the 56th Brigade Combat Team.
And the gas piston modifications and models don't have more or less recoil than the direct impingement system does. Ask any SEAL or Marine that uses the M-27. The AR-15 was originally designed as selective fire, it was later made in the military selective fire and civilian semiautomatic only models.
Direct impingement was chosen for both saving weight and simplification of assembly, the latter making the rifle cheaper.
@@spvillanoit is a good idea even today
Stoner for president
That AR15 adoption story at the beginning reminds me of "Nothing is more permanent than a temporary solution"
Watch the Tales of the Gun episode for the M16, it goes into great detail about the guys from Springfield being shitheads about the rifle being adopted.
Just like how the Spitfire mk IX became the standard fighter for the rest of the war when it was introduced as a stopgap measure pending other marks to be developed.
"It's only temporary, unless it works" - Red Green
As a programmer, I can only agree.
@kevin lawrence, Red Green is a genius of international renown.😉
For the longest time, I had no idea it was called a “forward assist”. All of my dad’s army buddies just called it a “jam enhancer”.
in my experience I have used the button once to its intended purpose and finished closing the bolt when there was a minor buildup and it worked perfectly. I cant count the number of times it functioned as a jam enhancer but I can assure you that the count was over 1 lol.
Masemeno Nasaku what’s the difference between a bug and a feature? MARKETING!
I use the forward assist on my AR when chambering a round for my home defense gun. I ride the charging handle down and seat it with the forward assist. I was told by a Vet (unsure what branch or unit) that this was the best way to use it. Cramming shit into the chamber that doesn't want to go doesn't seem like a prudent idea.
Franklin Davidson this is the proper use. It could be useful in scenarios where silence is a priority as well.
@@Colonel_Overkill how exactly can the forward assist cause or enhance a jam?
We're all talking about the forward assist. Let's all take a moment to appreciate that the Army stopped there, and didn't want the charging handle to reciprocate
😂
That would have made the nose-to-charging-handle stance favored by a lot of people for CQB... awkward.
Huh
I like my eye just the way it is.
Remembering that the charging handle was inside the carry handle, and nowhere near your face.
USAF: don’t need it
USN: sure why not
USMC: sure why not
US army: REEEEEE NEED BUTTON TO PUSH BOLT
When yer in der mud unt der blood ye need ta forcefeed yer rifle its grains n giblets in between the mud n grit so as to ye can blast at teh enemy n not let’m get away.
@@humphreybumblecuck5151 Sure worked for that boy Kyle.
@@humphreybumblecuck5151 that's what fire missions are for.
Clearly that is the sniper button, for when you want to make extra-precise shots.
So that's why I can't hit squirrels in the head when they are farther then 900 yds. Your a genius.
yeah obviously
Someone’s been talking to Afghanis
Of course, thats the button for increasing the zoom!
no just no 🤦🏻♂️
10:05
I love Stoner's answer.
"I'd choose the Springfield solution, I guess."
"Its because it's the best, mr. Stoner?"
"No, it's terrible. All of them are terrible. But this one is the easiest to fix once you realise how terrible it is."
Well, he was right. It seems to me, at least, that uppers without forward assists are becoming more popular on "high speed" rifles at least.
@@av0-cad03 They're becoming popular any any rifles really, as they've proven themselves to be wholly unnecessary and deadweight.
@@derektran9404 but muh bullet button
@@av0-cad03 Yes, button go mash.
@@derektran9404 BUTTON GO MASH
And by Counter-Strike logic, pulling on it chambers a round...
Upside: Doesn't eject an unfired bullet
Downside: You have to pull it everytime you get the gun on your hand for some reason.
Even when playing as a child with basic shooter knowledge of guns, that animation always looked suspicious to me.
Valve is based in the Seattle metropolitan… so it’s not surprising, at all.
@@asdasd-ty9se But the actual animation was originally in CS 1.6 and made by the modders who originally made it. Besides I'm pretty sure that in CS:GO (The latest) it was fixed, along with a few other weird animation, texturing and modelling issues.
@@asdasd-ty9se nuh uh, it was a dumb but honest mistake, some devs did have experience with firearms.
In the Marines in combat with the M16-A2, a couple light taps on the forward assist after loading a new magazine gave me extra confidence. Knowing that when my life was on the line, and I needed to pull the trigger, the weapon would go bang. Whether or not this was based in reality, or strictly psychological really doesn't matter. That extra dose of confidence is huge in combat, and I personally think the Army made the correct decision. Believe me, I do not utter those words very often.
becasue with the M16 you can not observe the bolt to tell if it is 100% seated.
Grunt: (uses the forward assist)
Firearm: (jams)
Task failed successfully
Hey! Max Headroom, huh?
Соломон Ртутный That was bad ammo, I’m willing to bet he made that load wayyyy to hot aka too much powder for the components to handle.
Соломон Ртутный first of all, good joke. Second, I read maybe half of your essay.
@Соломон Ртутный I read your article, brother man.
@Соломон Ртутный or when the magazine follower nosedives. Had that happen with a couple of GI metal magazines. No way to remediate short of mashing the forward assist. Round was still caught under the feed lips, but far enough forward to hit the barrel extension.
Army - "one time purchase..."
*decades later*
Well if the y have being buying the same thing for literal decades... isn't it just a looooong ass one time purchase? :P
What's next
"It'S aN Ar in 9mM"
@@jessemorris744 That'd be the Colt 9mm SMG, used since the 80's...
"There is nothing so permanent as a temporary solution."
@@SGTMinguez heh, just go onto any base and look at the ancient buildings with a T-number on them. T for temporary. Some predate WWII, being built by the CCC during the depression.
I used the forward assist the other day while at the range. Don't know why it failed to feed but I slapped the forward assist and it went home and didn't hiccup the rest of the 300 rounds. I'm a forward assist truther now.
Yep...and you weren't dodging incoming fire to be able to have the time to sucessfully do so.
Happy you lived to plink another day, range guy...
13 years in the Army. Used forward assist 2 times. Once at the range and once in a firefight.
‘The jam enhancer button’
It is quite good at doing that
Ahh, tovarischi
Nothing like making a bad situation worse
Well actually it is technically the sniper button
Sus
“It got more complicated once the army got involved.” I immediately burst into laughter. Sounds about right.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pentagon_Wars
Great movie
0
**The Pentagon Wars theme starts playing in the distance**
Oh, come on. The needs of the Air Force were somewhat different than that of the Army. The Air Force wasn't typically crawling around in the mud and swamps of Vietnam, while the Army was. That said, we were taught to eject the round rather than using the forward assist. However, I did try it once and it worked just fine.
My step-dad, 173rd, VN ‘70-‘71, explained how they used the fa. When operating in flooded rice paddys, irrigation ditches etc. they’d ride the bolt to not fully seat the round so the barrel could drain if the weapon got submerged, then bang the fa when in enemy contact. Not sure if this was valid. He said they also learned to run them “wet” lube wise, as many of us do today, using anything they could get their hands on for lube, motor oil, hydraulic etc. The ammo and the weapon had improved also by the time he was in country. He made it home ok and sure his m-16 had something to do with it. Stoner was a brilliant engineer and gave us
a damn good tool all these years later. I run a flatop ar10 with fa. Never needed the fa, isn’t run in sketchy conditions like a service weapon though and just happened to have the fa when built.
As always Ian, great knowledgeable content keep up the great work. Thanks
I just came across this video about the bolt assist on the M-16. I'll speculate that anyone who says it "isn't/wasn't necessary" never spent any time in the field in Vietnam. I did two combat tours there, and used both the version without the bolt assist and subsequently the newer version with the assist. I'll bet anyone who experienced both versions in field conditions would surely opt for the assist. Without going into long details there were also problems with the earlier, non-assisted versions concerning the metallurgy and tolerances on the chambers. After these rifles were dunked in a muddy stream or rice paddy, there was often enough grit in the chamber to prevent the next round from seating with only the pressure of the recoil spring. That's where the later bolt assist came in handy. Regarding the comment that once the bolt was forced closed, the spent case occasionally wouldn't eject. That was true. The grunt's solution was to tape a cleaning rod to the forestock with 100 mph tape. When the failure to extract occurred the soldier pulled off the cleaning rod and jammed it down the muzzle to force the shell casing and the bolt by brute force to the rear (Like ram rods for old muzzle-loaders).
It might also be worth noting that a difference between the Air Force and the Army was that the Air Force were using the rifles for security police guards at SAC Bases where no crawling through mud and swamps was required. It's not hard to imagine why, in those circumstances, the Air Force didn't find the bolt assist useful.
Absolutely right. The forward assist is also useful when loading the rifle as quietly as possible, since letting the charging handle forward slowly will lead to hangups. You can use the port cover catch recess on the bolt carrier to nudge the carrier forward, but the forward assist may be needed for the last 1/4".
There were problems with metallurgy, non-chromed rifling, tolerances, political interference that resulted in precisely the prohibited type of smokeless powder being in the rounds and more. If you want something fucked up, ask the Army to handle it, want it mangled beyond recognition, give it to a politician.
But, don't forget, not all USAF were zoomie and missile guards. Some did run CSAR missions.
One thing though, how'd you get cleaning kits? The early '16's shipped without cleaning kits, resulting in men thinking that they never needed cleaning. At least, per everyone I knew that served in Nam when the M16 was introduced.
Loved my M4 in the sandbox, although I really loved the reintroduced M14, brought back updated as an M1A as a DMR.
Although, the best things we had beside our Strykers was Kevlar and radios to call for air or indirect.
Ok so maybe 50 years ago crawling through mud a forward assist would be useful to jam 1 round into the chamber, followed by a high probability of extraction issues. Today this is obsolete and a non issue with advancements in metallurgy
@@DeeDee-bm9hr an interesting takeaway, given the dozen comments from men who used the forward assist with no problems in combat in these very comments.
The gun has got to go bang.
Air Force: "Forward assist is unnecessary."
Army: "Haha, plunger go squissssssssh."
Air Force shoots in boot camp and that's about it... I'd hardly use listen to any gun maintenance they'd suggest
@@BloodyKnives66 Also AFSC dependent, at least when I was in. I was in a civil engineer unit, we were required to qual every 15 months. AF qual is still a joke, using simulated distance targets at something like 25 yards.
@@BloodyKnives66 Like Army's rifle maintenance is worth a shit. "Replace the buffer spring? Why??"
Matt Carrasquillo Ya, because the army is so much better........ “No we don’t even need to issue these with cleaning kits!” “Let’s take a cartridge that doesn’t want to chamber and force it home!” The forward assist just makes the problem worse. You go from a failure that is not too hard to fix, to probably having a stuck case and still having the original problem to deal with after mortaring our the stuck case.
@@BloodyKnives66 Funny, I'm AF and I qualify every year, fam fire every 6 months and do training with sims every other month or so. I'm not saying I'm anywhere near the level of SOF or some shit but there are people in the AF who do fire more than you'd realize. Hell, if money weren't an issue, we'd be firing a lot more.
"all four branches"
- crying in coast guard tears
Technically there is only 3 branches Army, Air Force and Navy. The Marine Corps is under the department of the Navy and the Coast Gard is under the DOD
How about Space Force ?
🤣
@@redtandem8483 the Air Force looked at the dom and sub relationship between the Navy and Marines and said "I want that too."
@@redtandem8483 there's no war in space...yet
I served in both the Army and the USAF, and I always wondered why my USAF rifle didn't have the forward assist. Now I know!
Clint Smith said don't shove sh!t into the chamber that doesn't want to go into the chamber. Solid advice.
Tell that to Kyle
Kyle Rittenhouse: Are you sure about that?
Be careful what you say to that little brat, he'll be blubbering in no time 🤡
@@blessedbaphometName checks out lol
Typically, the bolt wouldn't move forward with enough force when opened and released manually. Anyone who says the forward assist wasn't necessary is simply saying "I never used an M-16 rifle". Ask experienced combat soldiers if they would want it taken away.
I wonder how often the phrase, "This got more complicated when the Army got involved," has been said. Describes my life perfectly since January 2001.
Military ain't a profession. It's a sexual orientation.
My experience was the opposite: I wasn't being given choices. I'm super pessimistic and melancholic, don't give me choices I see the bad that can come of both. Just tell me what to and hand me some tools and I'll try it a dozen ways, I'm best in the middle of the pack, following the lead and keeping the stragglers making the pace.
The Army is easy, be where you are supposed to be, when you're supposed to be ther, and in the correct uniform. That is 90%. They do however, make everything else more complicated than it needs to be.
Guy Pierson
Are you from WV by chance?
pkt1213 Also, remember to salute these guys, but not these other guys, though you still have to do what both of them say, and they may tell you to do different things, at the same time. Also, sometimes those guys you salute, salute really senior versions of the guys you generally don’t salute, and have to do what they say. And you don’t salute when you’re doing not very Army stuff, or when you’re doing really really Army stuff, but you always salute when you’re doing normal Army stuff.
What happens if a round doesn't seat properly?
*AR:* We need to design a small intricate device to slowly lock the bolt into place
*AK:* I don't know, just kick it or something
H&K: Slap it till it breaks.
Rafael Enriquez not a hammer but your buddy's helmet
@@dsheshin depends on condition of both hammer and comrade as to which is used...
@@hazard7316Operator SLAPS charging handle
*It wasn't very effective*
Yeah but did you see how cool I looked?
AR: I'm sorry, the bolt won't close, it can't fire anymore.
AK: Bolt doesn't close, one sec. **violently beats AK charging handle on a table** There, all fixed, will do another 25000 rounds now.
Only used my forward assist once in mr career; dirty, gritty bolt during a training exercise in basic. No extracting and it got me through the event. Really drove home the importance of low crawling with the bolt cover up.
Cleaned and relubed, no more faults.
Did my basic in '82 at Dix, rifles were worn out, one in my platoon had the ancient split flash suppressor and actual Mattel fore grips.
Rarely needed more than a slight jarring if something hung up, even in the sandbox.
Have used the Forward Assist twice. Both times worked as advertised. Both times round extracted. One time, the difference between using it, or racking another round, bought me the time to be able to comment on subjects like this, in the future. Great work Ian. As always, intelligent and informative.
By your comment you proved the army was right. It did avoid 1 deadly malfunction.
used the forward assist countless times. The m16 doesnt work so smooth after thousands of rounds and with some sand sticking to the lightly oiled bolt.
Ditto. Used it twice in 30 years. Once during training exercise firing blanks with a gritty rifle, once on a two-way range. I guess the Army was right in the end.
Yup. As I said on other comments: the people that don't want it are the people that never had to rely on the state of their rifle to not die, right now.
I always used the forward assist after doing brass checks. Was there times the brass check turned out to be necessary because turned out a round didn't actually strip and there was no round in the chamber? Yup. Was there times after doing a brass check where I used the FA and the bolt actually wasn't fully in battery and it wouldn't have fired if I hadn't used the FA? Yup.
Being able to both check and ensure the state of your rifle as being condition 1 ready to go is not an optional feature for those about to run into buildings full of people that want to kill them.
I’ve used the forward assist many many times. Super useful when you need to quietly ready your weapon and it doesn’t seat fully.
9:50 "Nyet. Rifle is fine."
- Eugene Stoner
Het
lol perfect!
Нет
А что, если - да?
Fun fact: Eugene and Kalashnikov were good friends.
"The bolt moved forward. The gun just fired."
Lol
🤣🤣🤣🤣
"It happens in basic training EVERY DAY."
Can we get him on FW?? Ian might learn something
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
As a guy who carried an M16 in Iraq I can tell you it can be handy to have a forward assist. You can spend all day in a sand storm and the enemy won't give you time to clean your weapon before a fire fight so you may actually need the forward assist from time to time. Also, remember the Air Force never goes to the field so they don't even need weapons so they are good with no forward assist. The Air Force didn't even need a chrome lined barrel.
always better to have and not need it
I like the forward assist. It is the only method I've found to quietly chamber a round. If you would rather not notify everyone in a 4 acre area, softly pull the charging handle then ease it forward. Then softly tap the forward assist. This reduces the whiplash sound of a charging AR-15.
When I was in basic training and doing rifle qualifications, we were told by our drill sergeant that if we got a bolt-override condition, to slam the forward assist and jam it in there good and hard, so it couldn't be cleared. That way, we didn't lose time on the qualifications trying to clear it; since we could report it as an unrecoverable malfunction and restart the test with a different rifle; which helped guarantee we would get a higher score. Yeah, our DS was... interesting.
Sounds like your DS was a gamer.
Damn, real life powergamer :D
That didn't happen to be Ft Leonard Wood did it? Mine said the same.
Sounds like a guy who was playing to the lane, and not to achieve the training's intent.
When your evals are written based on how well your platoons do...
Reward the wrong things and see what happens.
"The army won, by persistence and stubbornness" yeah that sounds about right
Can confirm this is accurate.
Take that hill. Send a division down the middle. When that doesn't work send a division down the left. When that doesn't work etc etc etc.
That’s how they win wars too lmao
get out of my walls why are you watching through the holes why
@@gepo6882 Ironically that's how insurgencies like the Taliban or guerrilla fighters like the Viet Cong win against the US army. They don't defeat the army, but drag out the fighting until the US is sick of that shit and pulls out.
When I was a young lad my father was teaching me the ins and outs of my new AR at the range. I asked him what this was and he said, “no clue bud, just shoot.”
And it still makes me laugh till this day. Never used it, probably never will.
depends on whether your in a nice putdoor range or a muddy moist jungle
@@caminam78Yeah, bench shooters like pushing buttons, lol
The plunger forward assist. Basically, disconnected from the operating components until used. Overall out of the box idea from the traditional way of doing things
"you can forward assist the heck out of it if you want to."
Made my day.
Things you can say about your gun but not your girlfriend.
@Zippydsm Lee If this is what you do without sufficient coffee then I can only imagine what you can do with a entire pot of coffee.
@@Hybris51129 I'd never use my rod without lubricant on her.
She's always so dirty inside after usage.
She has no special needs, runs reliably on everything.
Got her dead cheap at an auction.
Grandpa brought her back as a souvenir.
She has brought me nothing but joy.
"Committee: a life form with six or more legs and no brain" Robert A Heinlein
A camel is a horse designed by a commitee.
@@deadflowers7017 and an elephant is a mouse built to government specifications
@@deadflowers7017 I'd heard it was a donkey
"A camel is a horse that a committee built ".......
Committees: Because none of us is as dumb as all of us.
Respectfully, in the USMC, I had a M16A4 that was purple and completely faded and marked, used and abuse like you would expect. It was a 15 yr old rifle that had more CARs under it's belt then anyone in the comments. Rain, mud, salt water, sand, it went thru it all. Well in a sandstorm patrolling thru Helmand, Afghanistan. I actually had to use the forward assist twice. It saved my life one of those times. I will never know as much as you do about firearms, but yes the forward assist does help "IF" you have a heavily used M16A4 at least. What I took from that is that if you plan on keeping a AR-15 forever, and or you want a SHTF rifle that will serve you for a long time, that won't break the bank, you absolutely need it. I never had an issue with mud or muddy water like you mentioned in the video, but a ton of sand, yes. As far as I know I know only of one other person that had to use the forward assist in a different unit that I met years later. And yes we were both surprised, that thing actually had a use.
Sandstorm, my balls. Those were portland cement dust storms, shit got damp, it turned into concrete.
BTW, seen the new M-27 DMR? I asked Santa for one for Christmas, he told me I was too fat, get the fuck off of his lap... Why does Santa hate the Army? ;)
@@spvillano I would take you serious but you don't even know the name of the weapon you are referring to. It's M-27 IAR not DMR, though you can use as a DMR if you needed to but their are better DMRs out there. It's also not new we have had it for close to a decade in small numbers abut around 7 years ago, we had it large numbers. It's 95% cleaner then the M-4s or M-16s. The amount of carbon built up from 1000 rounds is a 1/20 of what you'll see in M-4s/M-16s. That's perhaps the best thing they have going for them. But the green weenie could care less about that because money. It's fun to shoot in full auto when suppressing fire is needed, but most of the time it's semi auto. And don't get me started on the SAW, after GWOT most of those are not working anymore, I've seen so many literally fall apart. Unless they got new ones, everyone's running around with Frankenstein SAWs that have different parts from different SAWs.
And what are you complaining about the army gets new toys every other year. If you want logistics, join the army. Common phrase you'll hear from any door kicker in the Marines.
@@namenotfound8747 they toyed with a half dozen names when testing it. It was to be a DMR with full automatic capability and well, it's been expanded a bit beyond that, largely to be well and truly rid of the direct impingement mistake Stoner made.
The problem with the SAW is, well, it's a SAW. Great when new, lousy when used and well, worn out. I literally danced a drink can at 100 meters (I'm still mystified as to whatinhell a soda can was doing downrange on a US Army range) with a brand new SAW. Old ones, I danced for joy in not having to lug the damned thing.
As for logistics, lose logistics, what are you going to do, shoot dirty looks at the enemy?
Besides, for most of our nation's history, the Army was job security for the USMC. Marines would come in and take the land, Big Army would move in, set up a nice sexy fire base, give it back to the enemy so that the Marines could come back and take it again. Otherwise, the Marines would run out of things to break and take and be out of a job!
Yeah, I fucked with everybody, even my own branch.
Including reminding buddies who were ever so impressed with our Strykers that nobody else had, it's really a LAV 3. ;)
@@spvillano Yeah we joke with army dogs all day, truth is though we're usually jealous because you guys get nice things like more specialized schools, more bonuses, you get promoted quicker and when we have army infantry in our bases, they don't do stupid shit like sleeping in the rain when our barracks is 100 ft away with no tent, no cot, no hot food and when you're doing a patrol some random E-6 and up will say some stupid shit like why are you cammies dirty?
@@namenotfound8747 never had anyone complain my uniform was dirty, just after a day out with scouts getting asked why my uniform wasn't pressed and starched.
He wasn't exceptionally happy about his career outlook when I turned around and he saw I was two grades superior to him.
And your weapons were a wee bit better in quality. Nice custom shop pistols, tighter group capable rifles, why, it's almost as if the Corps expected you guys to actually hit your targets, rather than do what we did - make a shit ton of noise and behave as if we were static displays when engaging.
Oh well, we promoted quickly, not based upon competency, but PT scores, so fire and maneuver tended to be beyond the capabilities of thought in many leaders.
"Like, flank them with the gun, keeping them occupied and approach from here, here and here."
"But, the gun isn't in that position."
"If only it was on a vehicle that could move..."
"They could engage it!"
"It's armored, braintrust! And our rich and retarded Uncle has plenty more that look just like it. Now, move the goddamned vehicle, engage them before they bury us and that isn't a fucking request!"
Covered in Kevlar, got more fire support than God and afraid to move at times.
Peacetime fucks infantry up - always. Took months to get them to actually stop being pretty and capable of breaking shit again. Got in country and they fought like REMFs for far too long. If my uncles had fought like that in WWII, there wouldn't be a synagogue next door to my apartment today and a different flag!
And be completely united in loathing our political leadership - oh wait, that's a constant throughout human history, disregard. ;)
After burning through a few thousand rounds, it does help. Sometimes its the mag that causes the issue, sometimes its other. Forward assist gets the job done, if it fails repeatedly, swap mags, if it fails after that, you failed to take care of your weapon....
"A solution searching for a problem" sounds like my 1st marriage
I can relate...
@dar'man beskar Ordo jokes are a lost art on you, aren't they?
@dar'man beskar Ordo kinda knew that already. Instead of reciting something that's already said, why don't you think of a new tune instead of treating a RUclips comment section like a Twitter flame war? Inspirationless slug.
@subcomandante marcos I was figuring it was a guarantee, but I really don't know.
Eugene Stoner originally named it a "Jam Enhancer"
This is too funny 😂
Do you have a source? I wanna know more lol. Might be engraving something
lol, I'm stealing that.
He also developed the AR18 which was a dud.
ah, someone watched MikeBurnFire, a true man of culture.
I do have to say -- having a forward assist:
1. Does not increase the practical complexity of the firearm.
2. Does not greatly increase the make the size of the firearm much larger.
3. Does not greatly increase the price of the firearm.
4. DOES add greater control over the bolt.
While the situations where a forward assist is necessary is not many, having the ability to seat the bolt if you for instance:
- didn't pull the charging handle back far enough for the spring to force it in
- you followed the handle back home
which, btw, can absolutely happen to poorly trained shooters, make it a feature I cannot go without.
I'm 2 years late to this, but it can also be useful if you want to keep as quiet as possible when charging the rifle. Guide the bolt home, use the forward assist to get it the rest of the way there. It's much quieter than racking the charging handle in the normal fashion.
You are probably right 99% of the time. Imo, better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
1.) quiet reload so the enemy doesn't hear you for special ops.
2.) If the bolt gets dusty, sometimes the little tap helps. If you're in a clean environment, or in a situation where your rifle is always clean, you're not really going to use it unless there's a minor magazine feed issue where the round doesn't quite seat into the chamber.
The 'story' I got from my 'Basic' DI was "IF and when you ever submerge the rifle, upon leaving the water you pull back on the charging handle to break the seal and let the water drain out of the barrel, then let the charging handle go forward and then tap the forward assist to ensure the bolt is back in battery. This was not to be used otherwise." Under those circumstances, it made sense to me. Quieter than cycling the action and you didn't lose a round.
Wow, thanks for sharing this info... Very cool... It's a piece of "operator history."
If you pull the charge handle back halfway and let go it should still get into battery.
@@andresluengas4650 not good if you are trying to remain undetected
@@andresluengas4650 I've experienced jams from only half charging the rifle before that were fixable with the forward assist. But if you just charge it all the way and let go, no probblems.
@@andresluengas4650 Key word there is "should". Not sure you would want to take that chance in this situation.
I'm with Clint Smith on the matter; "Why would I want to beat something into the chamber that don't want to go on its own?"
@The94GTC If it won't fire the next round, it's no good. You can close the bolt into battery with your thumb if it's not jamming.
Clint definitely has a way of boiling things down to their essence...and then yelling it at you until you get the picture.
"look god and stoner got together on this and its perfect " -Clint Smith
Surprised the forward assist isn’t illegal in California.
forward assist aka the murder button: MUST BE BANNED
Stop giving them ideas!
@@frankdindl790 😆👍
😂
@@jeremyadams7395 murder button? I always called my murder button my trigger.
Still, isn't everything illegal in California?
I for one am glad they included the forward assist. I have actually had to use it before and it does in fact work.
Good job Kyle 👍🏻
Its only purpose is the 1 time you'll need it. And the 1 time you'll need it you'll die if you don't have it.
That's why people not relying on their rifle for their life don't really get the concept.
That's what I was thinking. I was just plinking and breaking mine in, when I had to use the forward assist TWICE.
It definitely did what it was supposed to do.
I haven't had to use it since, but you never know.
The "don't have holes that let crap in the rifle" ethos was so strong with the AR, but relatively uncommon since.
Chris F so underrated. Ar15 is the gun people love to hate
@@jonmeray713 I thought it was just the AK guys. I have a WASR-10 and an M&P Sport II, no hate on either. My father is a Vietnam vet who trained with an M14 but carried an M16 shortly after deployment. He has often referred to the M16 as "that piece of shit tried to kill me... TWICE," but the first time I handed him my shiny new Smith&Wesson, he looked like he was saying hello to an old friend. He immediately began recalling the accuracy of his A1, and the tremendous efficacy of that tiny bullet, a deep respect very apparent in his voice. He did also say that Marines and soldiers largely cleaned and maintained the rifles on the same schedule as any other, and the only issue with the rifle (albeit a big one) was the chamber, not any lack of maintenance on the 'space gun'. I personally believe the AR has a legacy of unreliability that is somewhat overblown, but the fact remains: AR = America's Rifle. Damned good gun. Eugene and Mikhail both built excellent rifles that excelled in their respective military roles, and still do to this day.
I think the end of the AWB and so many new vets has gotten rid of any negativity towards it. Worldwide AR and AK are still *the* rifles, period.
@@chrisf247 Hell yeah, brother!
@@AtlasJotun The main issue with the early AR was the powder charge change that made it unreliable, Ian has covered this before
Like my Diddy used to say: "If it don't fit, FORCE IT". He maintained our cars, we walked a LOT!
At our training institute, an instructor was asked to see if an unmarked key went to a forklift. He went "Well, if I oil it and force it in it might work!"
What the hell gets people thinking like this?
@Howard Black Percussive maintenance?
Your Diddy'd had a lot of virgins
@@chitoryu12 Murica?
If it doesn't fit, force it. If it breaks, fuck it, it didn't fit anyway.
When I was a Boy Scout in the Sixties, i remember one camping trip that featured an honored guest. He was a former Green Beret. One evening we sat around the campfire and could ask him questions. At the time there were many news articles alleging that the M16 was was a disaster, that in jungle conditions it was too difficult to keep clean and that it was prone to jams. So I asked him what did he think? Were these stories true?
He told us that he was actually part of the group that field-tested the weapon. He basically said that for the most part it was a fine weapon, but that they did make one recommendation to the powers-that-be. From what I remember, he was describing the addition of the plunger that you mention in this video. He gave me the impression that with this addition, the M16 was a superb weapon. So my recollection, best as I recall, is that the plunger was not merely a solution in search of a problem. It was recommended by people who had actual experience with the rifle in combat conditions.
Calling the Vietnam trainwreck m16 a 'fine weapon' is like calling microwave meals 'fine food'. The m16 was indeed an utter disaster, although it wasn't the forward assist, or the fact they increased the rifling degree for no real good reason, but the fact they adopted a new powder for it to win a tiny bit of velocity... Which on its own caused a lot of jams that simply weren't there on the AR15, but the new powder was also DIRTIER, causing very fast muck buildup and further jamming. Also the experience really is no argument, given servicemen don't really have a say in what they use, if he had the choice between using the m16 and the issued crappy new ammo, vs an AR15 with the old, cleaner and reliable ammo, THEN he'd have a say in it.
I have been using the C8 (M4) for around 15 years in the danish army, and used this specific button several times, and it has worked for me, and actualy fixed the problem, and not making it worse each time... Thank you US Army!
Sometimes when I'm cleaning my ar, I just like to push the little button and it makes me smile.
Sometimes I just sit there with the rifle across my chest, and push the button for no reason other than to push a button.
@@Gottaculat leftists: "Gun owners are pure evil!"
Gun owners: **pushes button that does nothing**
"Teehee!"
@@kaiserc2471 you get free AK if you go far enough left
So you like pushing the "happy button"?
I have two buttons in my car that are for options I don't have. I push those buttons because I can push those buttons.
This "making the soldier feel better about something"-placebo thinking seems to be pretty common in the US Army.
I read an interview with the guy who developed the hand to hand combat system for the Green Berets and he spilled the beans on how all that "99 ways to kill with your bare hands" military martial art stuff doesn't really work and is only supposed to make the soldiers feel better, basically.
In one of those extremely rare situations where two enemies on a modern battlefield come close enough to each other for hand to hand combat, the one who acts first, will most likely prevail and it is almost irrelevant what he actually does. Screaming at the enemy can already give you the deciding edge.
Whoever overcomes their shock and hesitation first, will most likely win, even if what he does is kind of stupid.
That is why those military hand to hand combat systems are designed to make the soldier think he is a close combat killing machine, because it will give him the confidence to act instead of seizing up.
To actually get good at martial arts, you need to train for hours every day and not even professional special forces have the time for that. They have more important stuff to train and rehearse.
When it comes to this kind of stuff, 2 rules apply:
A: It takes 10 000 hours to get proficient at anything, whether it is martial arts or playing an musical instrument, or whatever.
B: You can only be proficient at something when you actually can train it.
You can't really train breaking necks, slitting throats and gouging out eyes and stuff like that.
Sure, someone who does a lot of grappling and choke holds and so on, will be better at breaking a neck than someone who never did anything of the sorts, but even that grappling guy is a layman and will never be a "neck breaking killer machine".
The Green Berets guy also was very critical of the idea of teaching Krav Maga to civilians in strip mall dojos.
All that gun grabbing and knife fighting stuff was developed as a last ditch hail Mary survival tactic for Israeli spies and soldiers who got caught by their enemies and know they'll probably get killed anyways if they don't do anything. To someone like that in a situation like that, it makes sense to take a 5% chance. To a civilian who gets mugged somewhere in the USA, it doesn't. It will probably get them killed.
Too much Adderall bro.
This tells me that someone, somewhere out there is an expert/master of breaking necks and I wanna see that person
The US military gears itself towards the 16 year old intellect. If a child cannot understand it they're not interested.
@@HamburgerMolester I don't need adderall, I'm all natural.
Those "TL;DR" comments always amuse me for two reasons:
1.) Nobody forces anybody to read any comment. Telling me it is too long or too wordy for you, is as if you would walk into a store just to tell the people working in there that they should be embarrassed because you don't want to buy anything from that store.
2.) Because of how sycophantic RUclips subscribers and their comments tend to be. If I were a content creator and would have made a 20 minute long video about this subject, I would probably get tons of likes and positive comments and people thumbing-down people who disagree with me, if I wouldn't totally fuck it up.
But instead I wrote a comment that takes maybe 1 minute to read and that makes me a asshole who talks too much.
Whatever dude.
When I was in (Non-Combat, US Army) our combative instructor told us that hand-to-hand training really only had two objectives - Getting soldiers comfortable with how grappling works (Not necessarily proficient) and giving soldiers just enough practice to disengage from a hand-to-hand situation so your battle buddy can shoot the guy who just jumped you. And if your battle buddy isn't right there ready to shoot the guy, then you're already 7 screw-ups deep and no amount of training is going to help you.
One thing on my Cobalt kinetic AR-15 that is a really nice addition is that the forward assist also drops the bolt on reloads this means that you can slap a mag in and drop the folds in one motion without ever having to take your eyes away from your sight picture. This is done through the use of a beveled bolt catch on one side and a beveled Rod that extends from the forward assist
Maybe I am the Lone Ranger here but I can say I am glad it was there it worked when I needed it some times in excitement you don’t get the charging handle fully pulled to the rear before releasing it so your not in full compression of the buffer spring the bolt goes forward but but does not have enough energy to fully impress the round into battery I was glad it was there it worked for me
I think the Army was insistent on the forward assist because otherwise "SPORT" would just have become "SPOR"; And we all know how important a slick acronym is to the Army.
S.P.0.R.T.S. Remediate action drill.
@@Theelderdragon01 Immediate action.
Remedial action was if it failed the second time.
@@shawnr771 Nah it's remediate action. Remediate is to fix. So SPORTS is an action to fix a problem.
Please explain this acronym for me
My best guess so far is Senatus Populusoue Romanus
@@user-xq5og9lt8p It's what you're supposed to do if your weapon jams.
S - Slap upwards on the magazine
P - Pull the charging handle all the way back
O - Observe the ejection of whatever is in the chamber
R - Release the charging handle
T - Tap the forward assist
S - Squeeze the trigger/shoot
Seeing all that tape on the "M16A1" configuration rifle reminded me of how we used to set up our M16s for patrols. The only difference is we kept it off the metal (aside from the front sling swivel and sling keeper, for noise reduction), and we would take a knife and slit the seams where the handguards come apart so we could still fully field strip the rifle to get some oil on the barrel for rust prevention, and it was easier to remove the tape before returning the rifles to the arms room (who would not accept them all taped up). Bore cleaner, CLP, or just about any solvent would take the tape residue off in a minute or two.
But randomly running diagonals of OD 500mph tape on the handguards and stock not only provided major camoflage by breaking up the long black object, it even reduced the CLACK of a stick hitting the handguards while moving through dense brush.
Forward assist saved the Kenosha Kid's life
HERE YEE HEAR YEE!!!! FORWARD ASSIST SAVES BOY’S LIFE!!!!
I was moving a monitor at work yesterday. I realized there was a button on the back. I HAD TO PRESS THAT BUTTON. The entire stand popped off in my hands and hit the floor.
At least it wasn't the button to degauss the tube that you used to get on the larger CRT computer monitors. Pressing that while touching particular parts of the case in, for instance, certain SGI and DEC monitors--say, while moving them--might get you a fun surprise, and by "fun" I mean "high-voltage".
@@ZGryphon Spoilsport - next you're gonna say don't work on a monitor without unplugging it and draining the tube:)
@@nferraro222 "Work on," hell, some of those old SGIs, you could zap yourself just trying to pick the damn things up.
It ensures a place a drill sergeant always has to find carbon
I used it a lot when I worked on Mars in the early eighties under Project Pegasus. When you use an AR15 on the surface Mars the Martian iron oxide dust tend to be attracted and accumulates inside the chamber. You need forward assist to clear this. The thin Martian air can't cool the gun fast enough and the forward assist button helps too in cooling the chamber. You can't use an AR15 on Mars without forward assist button. This is why they introduced it. The bullets we used came with a gas trapped in the cartridge in order to cool the gun.
This never happened
Funny, back in '82, we used either phaser rifles or hand lasers. Bullets were for bozos.
We cooled our weapons with taps off of the LT's tank, not that we told him...
I was an SP in the Air Force from 1970-1974. Carried one most of the time I was in Vietnam. I spent the last two years working in an arms room. We had 678 M-16. None had forward assists.
We never had an issue.
"Didn't have a brass deflector"
*[Flinches left handedly]*
The had a brass deflector that snapped into the gap between the top of the upper receiver and the carrying handle.
The detent pin went into the scope mounting hole.
@@shawnr771 Not exactly, it was a brass catcher. Being a lefty I was given one to use in basic, after the first three rounds it would cause the rifle to jam. I ditched it on the first range and delt with the brass hitting me in the nose.
@@Canis_Lupus_Rex Well ours did not have the ability to catch they deflected the round down. I never used on just saw them in basic.
I dont remember seeing them after that. Probably because like my Sargeant said "Drop You are not paying attention. "
@@shawnr771 I learned to deal with the M16, the M60 was another story.
As much as I hate the forward assist, I have no problem with the brass deflector. As a rightie, I can live without it but it doesn't add much bulk or any complexity and even righties shoot left-handed sometimes.
"When in doubt, push a bunch of buttons" - Launchpad McQuack, pilot.
A man of culture, I see.
I used several m16s and m4s in my time in the army. And I can only think of one time the forward assist ever helped. But it did help fix a malfunctioning rifle and it never got in the way. So in this one occasion I will say the army made the right call.
I served in the Army as an infantryman. There were times when sand would get blown into the chamber by the wind (fine sand particles) and under those conditions sometimes the bolt face wouldn't fully lock forward, the forward assist was useful to force the sand to be compacted enough to lock the bolt head in and continue fighting. A rare issue easily avoided with proper cleaning and maintenance. The mantra of rack tap squeeze is still burned into my memory all these years later.
my first rifle in the USAF was still a green stocked slick side, that was in 1971.
I qualified with the M-16 in 1970 (USAF). Don't remember ANYTHING about the forward assist.
@@badguy1481 That's cause it wasn't there. I was at Lackland in '71 and it still wasn't. If it had been the instructors would have very clearly instructed us not to fuck with it, same as they did with the giggle switch.
Mark Fergerson: I was assigned to a US Army warhead detachment in Northern Italy in 1975. We had a USAF element that ran all our commo. They kept their weapons in our arms room. They were all without the forward assist and all had the old open flash suppressors.
@@markfergerson2145 yep I remember the giggle switch warring/threat also lol
Carried a M-16 for ten years in the AF started with a 3 prong flash , triangle front stocked with a chrome bolt also carried a GAU5
alternate title - History of the Fail Button: Nyet, Rifle Is Fine
If they got this shit in soviet russia
They coud tottaly end up in gulag
That is why by the 50s the got the the rifle thing solve...
@@efirizaki5656Off to the Gulag with you!
That "fine" rifle nearly got me killed twice - by jamming. Apparently the Air Force didn't let the thing be shot a great deal or get dirty.
@@KylleinMacKellerann Probably a combination of both. This is the Chair Force you're talking about...
It makes sense to me. Normally bashing charging hand forward would do the trick for a bolt that doesn't slide all the way forward due to gunk in the field. But you can't really do that if you have to keep your gun trained on your target. Where the gap in which you are not looking down your sights could be fatal or cause you to loose the target. That's where forward assist comes into place.
While the forward assist is 99 percent of the time useless, when i was in the military every now and then i would drop the bolt on my m4 and the bolt would not close fully. Might have been a weak spring im not sure but i found the forward assist very useful becuase i could tap it and it would put the bcg into battery. Im glad it was on there and its alot easier to tap the forward assist every now and then as apposed to getting the armory to fix a problem with your rifle. For example when i was In basic training i had a completely broken gun that would jam every single round. I was never able to get them to fix it and at the end of basic i returned it to the armory broken and its still probably broken to this very day and being given to new guys in basic. It was so broken that eventually when we would go to the range my seargant would just take my rifle and give me his without me asking.
And to think of our country's defense budget
@Fast4SloW 717 I mean if it helps you become familiar with the rifle then it is what it is. We spend money on dumber stuff than maintaining busted rifle. Ever been to a section 8 neighborhood?
@@standingwhilepooping4685 did you ever wonder where section 8 came from?
Article I, Section 8, Clause 1, the General Welfare clause. If We The People is a waste of money, whatinhell are we defending then, when the Constitution already declared We The People the United States?
Besides, we wasted more money than God has every year. Like each and every year, SOCCENT would send a warehouse full of state of the art network equipment, brand new and in the box to the DRMO auction for pennies on the thousand dollars.
Or a war "because he tried to kill my dad".
Or the $200 million and a decade of R&D to replace a thermonuclear weapon component that they literally didn't document how to make. Look up Fogbank some time.
And investigating flying saucers a half dozen times, when we already knew they were mostly our own test vehicles.
Or the littoral combat vessels that are being retired brand new because they're cracking apart.
Meanwhile, you'd piss and moan if we didn't use equipment until it was falling apart because of the taxes being raised to cover it.
And we gain the benefit of soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines learning how to clear stoppages, even if they'll never have to do so again because their unit equipment isn't worn out.
Ah, the long and storied history of the 'jam enhancer'.
Sadly, does not actually make jam tastier.
I love this name for it. I'm going to use it from now on.
Except that the "jam enhancer" would actually be the user.
@@1ohtaf1 "There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
Austin Wortham a loud FOOOMP sound can be heard from the small arms repair motor pool. “God damnit, Spc. Zach is making mini cannons with the left over gun powder again!”
CS:S reload animation: “Is this the bolt?”
I was wondering why the animation always looked so weird
Was searching for this
Was also searching for this comment lol
@MEEPBUD CS:CZ got it right even back then, while 1.6 and CS:S just kept pull that thing... CZ always felt to be the superior version.
it didn't even pushed the FA, it looks more like pulling it backward
Okay... old retired infantryman here.
Actually had one time where the bolt did not fully seat for some reason and actually used the forward assist to force the bolt in the locked position.
This was in training.
We were using blanks.
Carbon builds up rapidly when using blank adapters and begins to accumulate in places like the chamber of the weapon.
In nasty conditions, the carbon gets "gooey."
So, when the M16 or other blank adapted weapon starts to "lug", dump the mag, spray the crap out of the action with CLP, work the action with the forward assist, reload, and continue training.
In other words, the only time I ever needed to use a forward assist was in training while firing blanks...
A more common jam was a double feed where a cartridge gets jammed between the bolt and the upper receiver around the gas tube. I can not think of a worse solution to clearing a jam like this as using a forward assist.
I learned the most effective way to clear a jam began with dumping the mag, retracting the bolt and inspecting the action for whatever is fubar. One of those, "The Book is Wrong," things you only learn through experience.
That boy is a hero now. 👍
Stoner unwittingly saved him.
Isn't that like cartoon logic? 'MUST PRESS RED BUTTON!'
George Jetson approves of the forward assist 😂
I mean, it was the late 60 army, probably all the training they got was a anna barbera short animation on the m16 and a kick in the butt
See this button? (points to big red button) (as other fella goes to touch it, slaps hand away)Dont touch it. Its the History Eraser button you fool.
@@Ponen77 Thank you Mr. Fukuyama
Former conscript, can confirm, pressed button for hours.
7:18 - Keep in mind that, "Air Force" and "Army" are formidable-sounding titles, and their use in this discussion could easily mislead people into overestimating how well-grounded the stances of each organization were. In reality, the debate over the forward assist was between literal handfuls of people who weren't much smarter or less likely to let their egos cloud their judgement than average citizens.
"The Army believes that X is correct" might actually mean "One professional desk jockey who has carved out a niche for himself in the organization and outlasted/edged out his bureaucratic rivals thinks X is correct."
I was always aware of the analogy, but yes this needed to be said.
"Taking merit out of the system" pretty much describes the entirety of western world history.
I know. Just making a joke, no need to prove any points.
Welcome to NGSW, except he used to not be a desk jockey.
@@superfamilyallosauridae6505 I had to Google that acronym, and what I found raised nothing but red flags.
"The Next Generation Squad Weapons (NGSW) Program is an iterative, prototyping effort, using Middle Tier Acquisition Authority, to develop operationally relevant, squad-level lethality to combat proliferating threats..."
Yep, that's classic U.S. military acronym apocalypse bullshit with "House Defense Committee investigation into the project failure" written all over it.
It’s useful for getting a bolt out that’s jammed in a buffer tube without the buffer and spring installed (I know a certain pvt that did this once)
I know quite a few that did this crap lol they had their bcg soaking in clp in the barracks
I just slammed the flash suppressor on the floor, the bolt came forward.
I use mine every time I chamber a round while deer hunting. I'm glad to have it.
I remember being in the Air Force in the 80’s at the range. We had the early M16’s with no forward assist. I remember the arms instructor saying, if you ever get a rifle with the forward assist, never push it. Don’t ask me why.
Jonathan Spier I’m curious what the problem really is, I was in the marine corp and never had any issues with the forward assist
David Ares - best analogy I can make is that its the same problem as “circumcision”. It started out as a religious practice, and it It can sometimes cause more problems than leaving a penis “al natural /\” but since theres a possible chance it would come in handy in the future , why not?
Because there's only one jam that you need a forward assist to clear. IF your mag follower nosedives and jams the cartridge into the end of the barrel extension while it's also still held under the feed lips.
@Jonathan Spier I fall under the "rack the charging handle and go" mentality for most issues that could conceivably be addressed by the forward assist.
Quiet closing? There's a detent in the bolt carrier.
Round did not completely chamber? Yank the charging handle. If the second one doesn't chamber, either, time to open her up and look.
@Jonathan Spier well they for sure won't after you jam the FA and then spend 5 minutes punching out a stuck case with a stick
Prior Air Force Security Forces here, I can't tell you how many thousands of hours I've spent on the Range training and firing with an M4 or M16. I carried it all throughout my career through the Middle East and stateside. And not once, never in my career, did any range instructor or training document discuss the forward assist button. The Air Force doesn't acknowledge its existence to this day. After my tenth year of carrying the rifle, I asked someone what is this thing on the side for? Literally, no one knew and I never spoke about the button again. Until this video today...and I still don't know how to use it or why I would.
That is because your CATM instructors knew what kinds of problems that would cause from hours of running the range. I never taught it as an immediate action for a failure to chamber. We had a back office idiot who got it in their head we needed to add the forward assist for our range malfunction training so we just changed the T in SPORTS to "look at the forward assist to make sure it has not fallen off." Nothing like making a round that does not want to fit into chamber become part of the chamber you need a rod and a mallet to remove.
@Albo alt USAF purchased 3 different 20" AR-15 models from Colt in the 1960s-1980s.
Colt RO 601 "Green Rifle"
Colt RO 602
Colt RO 604 which had all of the 603 (M16A1) improvements except the forward assist.
That included the Type E stock with cleaning kit compartment, heavy buffer/spring guide, full fence lower receiver, raised markings upper, 1/12" twist rifling, chrome-lined chamber and bore, and bird cage flash hider.
Used both. Most definitely preferred AR-15 to M-16. M-16 glitched more.
@@Slash2xx Forward assist use @2:39
ruclips.net/video/xmoasrigkQ8/видео.html
@Timothy Verrinder if it works right.
I carried an A2 for six years in the army. I can count on one hand how many times I EVER used the forward assist outside of dejectedly miming the motions for SPORTS in classes. I always opted for the much more expedient SPS. Slap the magazine, Pull charging handle, Shoot the enemy. never once had an issue.
Here is the view from The School Of The American Rifle regarding the FA.
Many people adopt the "don't force a bad round into the chamber" and don't consider anything else.
Here is something else to consider. If you use the Forward Assist and fire the weapon, it can clear fouling that is preventing proper operation. The gasses from the chamber, gas tube, and gas venting from the carrier help clear fouling/debris, especially in a properly lubed AR. This is where the Forward Assist helps get the gun back running.
Cycling the bolt rarely clears fouling. It only introduced another round into a fouled weapon.
Better ejector and extractor springs can also cause the gun to not always go into full battery if the weapon is under lubed, heavily fouled, fired from poor support, or if the magazine lips are making contact with the carrier belly cutouts. The forward assist makes more sense ok a modern AR with good springs.
Another consideration for the forward assist is to remedy a popped primer condition. If a primer pops and gets lodged in the cam path of the bolt carrier, you're not going to get the weapon to go into battery with a thumb on the carrier. The charging handle won't go rearward when this happens. The upper cant be removed because the carrier is partially in the receiver extension. Unless you remove the receiver extend, the weapon cant be cleared without a Forward Assist to force the carrier forward so the Upper can be separated from the Lower.
USAF: *Logical thinking*
US Army: *We need to be able to jam it in there*
It's the Jam Enhancer
USMC: *CAN IT HOLD CRAYONS?*
Navy:
As a retired Army Vet. I can confirm that.
Forward assist always seemed like a stupid idea to me. Why jam a bullet in the chamber if it didn't slide in. I rather just clear the chamber and lose one bullet than risk it going off like a bomb in my rifle.
U.S. Army: "we are just going to buy this once"
Me: "yeah bro thats the same thing I said when i bought my first AR.
That didn't work out"
We used it in the IDF for a quite load during ambushes etc... sounds like a cricket and that's what we called it cricket
In training (for the Army) they taught us to cycle the gun (pull the charging handle) because it was easier to remember "If gun no fire, pull handle." than it was to remember that if it specifically didn't go into battery to mash the oh crap button.
True but if rifle is dirtly it will not seat regardless of how many times you pull the charging handle, FA is the only way you might be able seat the bolt and chamber a round.
@@Privat2840 That's a good point. Especially while engaged, nobody got time to spray that thing with CLP.
Interesting history; that shows how the military logic works some times.
Sometimes?
At least with the Army, that's how it is all the time...
You misspelled *always.
Why is the US army/ordinance so retarded?
*Army “Logic”
It gives credence to the point Larry Vickers was making in an interview with Ian that even the US army would be perfectly fine using some type of modern AK-design instead of an AR-15-based design because for the regular guy the simpler the thing is the better. No extra buttons for the bolt, just a charging handle sticking out as a fixed part of the bolt assembly so if they want to have the option to manhandle the bolt no matter what, they can.
Sometimes, late at night, when I'm all alone...... I tap the forward assist.
Why.
@@kohrenhund it's a button and it's fun to press
@@redghost-uy7hq fair enough
Idk why, but this made me giggle
I had an M16A2 in basic training. The finish was so worn that it looked like raw shiny white steel and aluminum and the elevation knob would move as I would shoot. Whether it was the magazines or the dirt, I don't know, but I found myself using the forward assist on a few occasions. I approve the decision to add it.
Fascinating! Thanks for sharing. I really enjoy the historical information, and you have a really great way of communicating!
13:10 - For those newer to firearms, if you want a really controversial subject, try digging into the ATF's classifications of what is a pistol, a short barrel rifle, and a rifle. Once that's clear as mud, check out your state's laws on firearms as they try to follow with extra laws concerning firearms.
Might realize that a significant portion of people passing laws on these subjects don't have a single clue what they're talking about, nor ever held a firearm or shot one.
Lol yea, what a crock of shit. Ar “pistols” like who’s going to actually hold the thing like a pistol
That much both sides of the issue can agree on. The laws that exist are awful
@@AgentTasmania If both sides can agree on that, then why do people keep voting for this shit?
If by "significant portion" you mean "virtually 100%" then I agree completely.
I have never met, talked to, or seen on TV a person who was pro-gun-control who knew anything more than the most absolutely basic, surface-level things about firearms (and even then, those are rare). I have met and seen plenty who know nothing (or less than nothing because they "know" things that are completely wrong), many of whom are the Congresspeople trying to pass gun control laws.
I'm convinced by now that ignorance is a _requirement_ of being anti-gun. I suspect that anyone open-minded enough to learn about firearms soon learns that they are tools, nothing more. As for the rest, there's no need for them to learn about guns, because their reasons aren't based on facts, but on _feelings._
If you want a perfect example of a nonsensical gun law, look up "922r."
Summary:
Airforce: There's no reason.
Army: But what if there was?
Airforce: but there's not.
Army: ehh there might be.
Airforce: No
Army: MARCH ALONG- SING OUR SONG
WERE THE ARMY OF THE FREE!!
I literally laughed out loud.
Well. It just came out that it saved Kyle from death