It is odd, 7 years on active duty in the Infantry and I never used the FA. After that I spent 13 years in the reserves as a REMF and I used it twice. The Forward Assist is one of those cute little military dodads that are not needed, until they are needed.
This is very interesting, I am curious if reserve and support personal are issued more used and less well maintained service weapons. Either way I agree with your statement.
Finally, common sense video. If you never take your rifle into the mud, you’ll never need it. I’ve used it twice, and let me explain this clearly and succinctly: it works, its needed, and when your life is on the line, that “doodad” is worth its weight in unicorn tears. USMC Capt 11’ - 17’
Stop spreading false information!!! Everyone knows you press the sniper button repeatedly to pressurize the round; this increases its speed and damage!
Come on, guys! Enough of the crap. Anyone/everyone who has ever shot a multi-pump BB gun knows the button is used to set the power of the round. 1 pump increases the power by a factor of...YES...one. 2 for 2, 3 of 3. However, as with the BB guns of your childhood...there is a max number of taps, based on whether your upper receiver is forged vs billet, and the makeup of your barrel.
"Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it!" The Forward Assist is one of those things that you may never use until that one time you really need it.
I used one in an engagement once. Glad I had it. I suppose its like an E brake. Unless your drifting u never use it. But when u need it GAWD I hope it works. People base everything on their own experiences I guess. For every one of me I'm sure and know there are literally THOUSANDS who never had to use it. So they figure they dont need it. But like you said its insurance Maybe the weekend "tacticool" guys dont need one on their ARs but the military is all about redundancy.
@@jmmartin7766 No. Like the tether rope on the float rings. Every gun that has a bolt has a charging handle or lever that performs the primary purpose of putting a round into battery the way every float ring, tether or not, floats. Yes, there are some rare and mostly stupid cases where someone falls off a boat in a current and the float ring with a tether attached is more convenient and might save a life. But putting tethers on every float ring is a stupid way to prevent people from falling off of boats in a strong current and the people saying "These tethered float rings are great, they saved my life more than once." speak volumes, not about the tether, but about their ability to recognize their actual problem of routinely falling off a boat.
The great thing about today's market for AR-15's is all of the options. If you don't want the forward assist then there are plenty of upper receivers available that don't have it.
it's a time waster and redundant. people point out that rittenhouse used a bolt assist, he also could have recharged which would have solved any problem the bolt assist did not solve as well. he got lucky that it was a problem the bolt assist could solve
The M16 I was issued in 1973 I had to use the forward assist A LOT. But judging by how dirty the weapon was when I was cleaning it before turning it back in and how worn out it was, the pins were backing out on their own. It was because I got a much less than optimal firearm, but that happens. So I would rather have it (and learn to use it properly, like always operating the charging handle first to remove a potentially defective round and load a fresh one before trying to force one in) than not.
I was gonna say i remember having to use it when in after being at range and shooting thousands of rounds it would start getting gritty and sometimes bolt needed lil nudge
Good move, removing the faulty round first. Never understand why people want to use the assist after a failure to fire. The hammer needs to be re-cocked anyway.
@Old Goat A: It's the way some of them were taught in the military, and its the "way it's always done." B: Many learn it from Guntubers on YT and copy it. Both A and B are examples of group think.
pfc Patrick Miller, Awarded the silver star with V device for Valor, for holding off an entire company of Iraqi infantry almost singlehandedly with a malfunctioning M16A2 by.using his forward assist over and over.
Tell the guys in Vietnam with the A1... they needed it. A few years in the 82nd... I used it a lot... not just for jams... but to silently close the bolt. SPORTS is still taught and for a good reason.
As far as I read the reason the army wanted the FA lays in the FN Fal trails. Is was found during arctic testing, that the Fal's bolt tent be get frozen in its most rearward position. In that position the bolt of the original Fal could not been forced forwards and because of the original Fal's design it can not be disassembled due to the bolts tail protruding into the stock of the gun. As soon as the arms saw he m16's design they remembered the Fal trails and immediately requested a FA. A M16 bolt stuck in the rear acts like a blocking pin positively locking upper and lower together, preventing is from being disassembled. If you look at earlier FA designs the purpose is clearly to drive to bolt forward enough to disassemble the gun, not to drive the bolt al the way forwards. Sources: Black Rifle I and The FN FAL Rifle Classic Edition.
See, _that_ actually makes sense. I remain of the opinion that driving the bolt forward into battery when it doesn't want to go into battery is going to get you into more trouble than it'll get you out of, but driving it forward enough to get the gun opened and remediate the actual issue? That I can understand.
@@PhycoKrusk it definitely could be needed to get the bolt forward in order to get it apart, and it could be used for something as simple as some unspent powder particle that could be the very slight obstruction preventing the gun from going into battery which could be remedied by using the forward assist and getting it back into action by simply pushing it forward, but if it's not there you don't have that option, and if it is difficult to close the bolt because of a major obstruction, then try to extract the cartridge, and if that does not work then you absolutely need to close the bolt in order to get the gun apart to clear it, so in my opinion it has its uses for all of those reasons, but if it's not there your options are limited. I do understand your thinking as well though. Usually you can just recharge the bolt and it will send it into battery without ever trying to force it closed with a handle or forward assist.
@@kimdearrington258 Wrong. If your AR can't run dirty, there's a manufacturing defect with either your AR or the ammo itself. Explain how BCM ARs can run 7,000+ rounds with no cleaning? Watch: ruclips.net/p/PLmmUI-v7SXNuO6fHtWxpu_YdmnV-Qtdx1
@@Enjoyer.762 unburnt powder absolutely could interfere with the bolt's travel if it was of sufficient size and amount, no defect required. The idea that such a thing _can't_ happen results in rifles being issued with no cleaning kits, and we know how _that_ turned out
was breaking a brand new upper a few weeks ago and on the 1st mag had 3 instances where the bolt did not close... as I do not have a forward assist on this gun i used a tooth brush handle. through the ejection port... may tie it on to the trigger guard with a string just in case :)
@Java N. Lava Very KY Ballistics of you Bud! :) I have those soft Air Force hands so I keep an old toothbrush with my kit for knocking off some of the grime and it turned out that i use it as a forward assist, de-jammer and emergency oral hygiene... figure if CLP is good for your gun then it has got to be good for your teeth and gums.😜
As a 45 - B smallarms repairman 1966 - 1969 in Vietnam , the problems with the early m-16s that we saw were multiple . As you pointed out ammunition was one cause . Another main contributor was the combination of metals they were constructed of . Two dissimilar metals , aluminum and steel coupled with the brackish swamp water of that environment created a reaction called exfoliation of the aluminum . The steel obviously rust , the aluminum separates into layers causing some minor binding of moving parts . The bolt assist was one of several changes .
Yeah, makes me laugh when these internet "Experts" start spouting off. With the early rifles, the forward assist was just one of many "Fixes". We rebarreled thousands to chrome bored barrels.
@@oldgoat1890, Were you also 45- bravo ? If so where ? I was with the 618th . Hem co . part of 86th. maint . and 5th. maint batts. We had our base camp in the Cha Rang valley on rte. 19 approximately halfway between Qui Nhon and Ahn Ke . In country March 67 home Feb 69 . Give me some info on where you were " "plumbing guns" please .
@@richardpalmer6196Ha! Ha! "Gunplummer" is one of my ID's. I was moved around a lot, but never got shipped to Vietnam. The Proving Grounds '72 with the Marines 2111(Same as 45-B) about 5 years later went back in with the Army as 45-B. Did all the early M16 work with the Marines. They still had thousands of M-14 's in use. I was in Cuba and there were still some M-1's in the racks. The 48 series tanks had first model 1919 machine guns. They didn't throw anything away. A lot of the M-16 and A-1 rifles were scrap. A lot of lowers scrapped out because of hammer and trigger pin holes worn over size. Notice how the bent barrel problem started to go away when the birdcage flash suppressor came in? I watched a couple of grunts pop the banding on a C-Rat pallet with a 3 prong one day. They said it was common practice. Did you use chrome BCG groups? They were still popping up in the system when I was in the Army. The good old days. Were you involved in the welding of the M-60 receiver mess? Boy that was a cluster.
In thirteen years in the Army, I used it twice. Once on the range qualifying and once in the field. In basic training we were taught the acronym SPORTS which stands for: S = Slap the bottom of the magazine P = Pull the charging handle to the rear O = Observe if anything is ejected from the chamber R = Release the charging handle T = Tap the forward assist S = Squeeze off the next shot I was taught that back in 1985 and still remember it to this day.
Myth that there is no reason to have a forward assist: Busted I've had to use it for real both as a civilian and as a combat vet. many times, for multiple different reasons.
For the 22 years in the Army and 2 deployments, and using one as a copper, every time I checked the chamber or had a malfunction, I used the forward assist. At night to chamber a round and be silent, I’d close the bolt slow, then push on the forward assist. If you just go to the range and don’t use it for survival, then do what you want.
Perfectly said. I have one on mine.. and I use it from time to time when needed. Usually only with a metal magazine that's new. But.. I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. And the price that it adds and the weight that it adds as they claim... Personally I think those people just want something to bitch about.
@@adfdasdfadfadsfareae silent or loud, I want the choice for either depending on the needs. Since we carried an M16 or M4 every day in Iraq. At that time, most of the camps we were on, we had UN-loaded weapons (not all had the skills required to have a hot weapon all the time) but everyday we went out, we charged them up…and made lots of noise. As a cop back home, there were several times I pulled the M4 our and wanted to be silent. Good to have the choice. Not to forget the malfunction drills that required slapping the forward assist.
Nearly every auto I’ve ever shot has had a failure to fully go into battery. A tap on the slide or bolt handle always instantly rectified this. Not really an issue at the range, but in a real fight a tap is still faster than racking in a new round. I’ve also had rounds not fully chamber and at the same time the extractor also did not fully engage the rim. A standard reload drill would not have solved this and would have (and did) make it worse by causing a double feed on top of the first (and now fully chambered) case. As to jamming a round in and sticking it worse by using the FA, that tiny button has very little leverage and isn’t giving much push to do much more than seat a slightly OOB round. In my experience the FA is very rarely needed, but when it is i’s better than not having it.
regarding jamming rounds in I found it funny that the people in the video didn't mention that the bolt for an AR (like the one stoner designed not those dumbass aftermarket ones) has a detent in it to put your thumb to push the bolt into battery if you need to. Stoner knew that there would be OOB issues and designed the rifle so that you could push with your thumb to get the round into battery and if its too hard to do that then just rack the charging handle again and try another round.
I've always kind of liked the forward assist. It's a very handy way to silently insert a round into my chamber. Just easily pull back on your charging handle and slowly let it come forward. It will pick up a round and ease it up into your chamber. But it will not go all the way forward. So you will have to gently push your forward assist to help the carrier go all the way in. Otherwise you'll have to do the forward assist the normal way and set up the loud slapping sound you can hear to the other side of the field.
Used it multiple time, when it gets cold and you get a "slushy slurry" of ice and water in there. In a thin layer, it can prevent battery lock. Using forward assist, fixes it, and does not put the user in danger. It just works.
If I'm using/building/buying an AR, I want it there. Perfectly summed up with "better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it." How many shooters have had to tap their pistol slide just smidge when it's running super dirty after a long range day? I have. And I don't shoot as much as I want/should.
@@ragnarokbladeworks for real though, get a gun that isn't afraid of running dirty. Nobody is shooting over 1k rounds of pistol in one gunfight and my pistol hasn't been cleaned for as long and doesn't need a tap into place. Stock pistol too, no mods or anything.
0:50 This is actually 3/4 incorrect. The Air Force used it first, and saw no need for a forward assist; the Navy and Marines had no opinion on the matter. Only the Army made a big deal about forward assists, and only got it after endlessly badgering the DoD about it.
@@Valorius you need to listen to some of the conversations with stoner about this subject. You would find thats not the case. It was one general who wanted it. Not a group or testing done. That same General was called out on alot of bull shit.
-- I believe in having a forward assist. Probably the most recent and well known example of effective use of the forward assist, is Kyle Rittenhouse. One might argue it saved his life. Kyle had to smack his FA while Gauge Grosskreutz (whatever his name) was bringing to bear that Glock on Kyle's head.
It's insane that a 17 yr old kid had the composure to even think of the FA let alone pull it off in combat. I still can't believe how well he did at only shooting at threats either. He's a calm sob.
@@NoName-ml5yk I'm almost convinced that he's a sleeper cell agent of some kind.... No sarcasm. I've really study that incident and it's either 1) He's seen combat somewhere before and had to apply many MANY different scenarios in life saving situations or 2) He's the litteral definition of sleeper cell agent. Even after being blindsided and fell to the ground, not 1 second was wasted and the fact that a single point sling litteraly saved his life is crazy in itself. He most likely would have died if it weren't for his single point.
There are a bunch of guns that don't have a forward assist. HK G3, MP 5, Steyr aug (sort of), Tavor, CZ Scorpion evo, FS 2000 And a bunch more. But most military rifles do have a forward assist because most of them are some variant of ar 15 or ak. I would say a forward assist is not needed but it doesn't hurt anything to have it either. It only adds about 1 ounce to the rifle and now the forward assist in ar 15s are so common you have to pay more in some cases to get an upper without one.
Kind of like the old saying "better to deal with the problem correctly than use a halfassed solution that no firearm designer in history including Eugene Stoner has ever designed for their gun.."
You might want to look up the early AR-10 he designed. Total failure. Most of you internet "Experts" were not even born when the M16 and M16A-1 were being used. 40 years of changes and band aides applied to the M16, and the forward assist was one of the better ones.
I never needed one until I did. -40 weather I needed it for most magazines for one or even two rounds. When I reloaded those mags I left two out and it sorted the gun without needing the assist. (I was at a 3 gun event). And then two weeks later the snow and cold was gone and it was only +5 and I somehow got some mud on top of my mags, (mud snuck down my webbing and settled on two mags) and I needed it again for one or two rounds. Never needed it before or since. So in two random weeks in 30 years I smashed that button about 12-15 times and zero times all 15,000 other weeks! BTW I came in second place in that -40 event because nobody else could keep their guns going but I was “smart” and used either no lube or specifically cold weather lube. I’m not a podium level competitor but I am obstinate and cold or hot, rain or snow I will keep going.
I've shot thousands of rounds through AR's and never once used the forward assist to get the gun in battery. However I'm just a civilian and have the luxury of my guns always being clean and oiled so I've never needed it. I could see it as being critical though for armed forces, if they are in combat and get some dirt or girt in the gun and they need to get it into battery without cleaning.
@@joeytomato Ive used mine in the Infantry. What did you do in the military? PFC Patrick Miller got a silver sta by using his FA, and Kyle Rittenhouse saved his life with a FA. Were your 2 deployments in the laundry service?
@@joeytomato Brother the FA is very useful when "the enemy" aren't that smart and are not familiar with the platform. There was a old ISIS video where ISIS members were using captured A2. Every time the ISIS guy reload he constantly hit the FA to chamber a round. There was a scene where he reloaded, kept hitting the FA, barking orders at some young kid and when he shoulder the A2 the gun didn't go bang because the bolt wasn't in full battery. He racked the charging handle, the round in the chamber ejected, the bolt chambered a new round and the gun is ready back in action ready to go bang but again he kept hitting the FA.
Yep; I've never had to use the gadget in anger (unlike the firearm itself), but if your long-term gun storage is on the ground laying next to you when off-watch, and the last lubrication was slime of the bomb-crater you recently fell into during a BDA, then it is nice to know it is there... Military arms should be built for the very-worst-case scenario (then double it), not what looks the "best" when all tricked out for the firing range... Not sure it is needed for the garden-variety AR15, but for the M16 in its original environment, it was a great idea...
@@Followme556 The airsoft infantry? I didn't think your two mommy's would let you play with guns... Just based on the stupidity of your comment in the other thread, I call bullshit on your "infantry" service.
There were quite a few time I had to use mine in the army. Its useful when the bolt just doesn't quite go home. There were a few times where I'd give it a love tap when I was just standing around I didn't know before I tapped it that the round wasn't fully seated and it saved me an awkward *click* later on so it just became a habit.
Unless, by having the forward assist, you make matters worse for yourself. It introduces another item on the rifle that can snag on something. It can make a bad jam into a catastrophic jam. There is an unseen cost to every decision - even when it seems like an innocuous cutout and pushbutton on the side of a rifle.
Needed? no. I prefer to have one, though. My hypothetical scenario goes like this: you're in your hunting blind for three days and haven't seen a deer for two. you get kinda bored or for some other reason do not have a round in the chamber of your gun. You finally notice a big buck that somehow appeared less than 10 yards from you. You don't want to slam the bolt shut cause you'll scare him off so you walk the handle down only to discover there's just enough friction to keep the carrier back a bit too far... I'll let you use your imagination for the rest.
I have used the forward assist many times when doing a press check to confirm I got a round in the chamber, sometimes the rifle does not want to close the bolt fully when preforming a simple press check. In the environment I work, it helps in remaining more silent.
I also think it's important to point out that while pulling the charging handle doesn't take much time, it does take proper orientation to the rifle and there are only so many angles you can effectively pull it back from, where as forward assist can be used from compromised positions.
I've also had a round that for whatever reason got stuck not quite in battery and could not be pulled out with the charging handle without a lot more force than it took smacking the forward assist to get it the rest of the way in and I could fire and cycle properly again.
EXACTLY! You CANNOT use the charging handle to SEAT a round It WILL BEND! I fully understand Stoners arguement However there ARE some cases where you need a "bolt" to manipulate.
@@red9man2130 I wouldnt say "cannot". If there is, say, a tiny mud caked pebble in the chamber, you can certainly use the FA to crush the shoulder of the shell casing thereby allowing the bolt to enter fully into battery. Brass cases are soft enough that you can power a round in there in some cases, if you really have to.
I wanted to build a 9mm AR upper without the forward assist, however, the cmmg radial-delayed blowback bolt carrier group specifies that an enlarged ejection port is recommended. I was looking at Aero precision stripped uppers, and the enlarged ejection port upper receivers (the XL line) all have forward assists. Sometime you have to play the hand your delt.
Midway sells a billet type, large ejection port , assist-free upper receiver....OOOPS! I forgot. This is the Brownell's Channel But seriously, IDK if the Midway U/R would work with the CMMG delay blow back stuff.
I went to boot camp in 1971 the range rifles we qualified with were slab sided M-16s. (No forward assist). Mine jammed so much from not going in battery I had to go back with another company to qualify the next day. I didn't trust the M-16 for tens years because of it even after qualifying expert with it. So my vote is Yes on the forward assist.
@Ron Robertson - Doesn't make sense. If your rifle was "jammed" the FA would be the last thing you'd want to use. If the round simply wasn't chambering all the way you are supposed to use the charge handle. There may be a reason for the round not chambering and crushing it in is a pretty stupid idea. FA is an abomination. The words of the creator of the AR-15 but you probably know more than him right. LMAO
@@wockawocka5293 The problem isn’t the round has something wrong, simply that the springs were so worn out and weak that it didn’t have enough juice to overcome friction and fully get into battery. Sure, it’d be fine if the gun is always maintained properly, but reality of military service is they won’t be. In that case, having a way to quickly remediate the problem is better than not having it. Eugene Stoner isn’t right about everything.
@@wockawocka5293 If the round isn't fully into battery (AKA, 95% of the time the extractor has not gripped the round) then you have just created a double-feed, unless you're looking into the ejection port, in which case it's no longer an Immediate Action solution. Good work genius.
Sometimes if you don't chamber your AR firm enough, you will need that little bump on the forward assist to fully chamber the round. That's an everyday thing for new shooters. 100% no issue having one.
I needed it on my m16 straight from the armorer a few times. Never understood the fuss. It's there if you need it. Why not argue about patch boxes in the butt stock?
@@JaggedJack1 its only a thing on muzzleloaders. there is a compartment on the stock where patches are stored. you load the bullet with a patch so your shot is more accurate and it helps blow out some powder residue, but since the patch makes the bore tighter, it will be slower to ram the ball down. it was a really bad comparison to a forward assist
The engineers in my neighborhood worked for Mellonics, and they had a lot of experience with the FAL in different wars. These engineers explained why the forward assist was needed. As someone that has SP1s and FALs I can say that a forward assis is needed. I rarely used it, but I have used it. With the SP1 and the FAL I have needed a forward assist ...and didn't have it. Do I recommens using the forward asssit? Rarely. I prefer to run the action. I never slap the forward assist when loading. The forward assist helps out with some mechanical issues. It also helps when using the AR in some dirty/dusty conditions. It can help with press checks, kinda. Stoner is not a God. He was sometimes a cry baby. Nobody is perfect. He designed the AR system well, but others made great contributions to make the AR as popular as it is today.
Indeed some versions of the FAL did have the ability to lock the charging handle into the bolt temporarily for this purpose. I think the Israelis did this.
Exactly Stoner, was never in a combat situation with the M16. He had an obsession with the gun's weight above everything and anything else. The worship of everything Stoner said by his fanboys is narrowminded.
Thanks for the feedback. I did not know of that fixed charging handle option on the FAL. Makes sense with sand. The anti-forward assist people have never struggled with the FAL, attempting to get it into battery. Frustration! Stone was a great designer, much better than me. He wasn't perfect. Also, he was designing the AR with 1950's technology and machine tools. 70 years later there are more possibilities. That doesn't make Stoner wrong, but we can do much more.
Never used the forward assist, the only time I ever had a round not seat was because I was distracted and road the charging handle forward... then I simply closed it with my thumb and it was just as quick
My mid 1970's era Colt SP1 has never failed to chamber a round, except, when people try to ease the round into the chamber, instead of pulling the charger back and letting it go to load. Also, I can never really remember ever having to use the assist, during my time in the services, in all the years I was in and using the M16/CAR, Pre-M4 days, rifles. All of my newer AR15 rifles do have them on their uppers though and I really don't have a problem with them being there. The time may come when it's needed and I'll be glad it's there. Until then, I keep it clean and keep it lubed.
I think it’s more necessary than not. The way I see it, on an ak, you have direct access to a protruding part of the bolt carrier to slam it shut if need be. A forward assist just gives the same capability to an ar platform by giving you direct contact to the bolt carrier
@@Enjoyer.762 it makes a lot of sense under fire. It is a part of remedial action drills because it can get you back into the fight. It isn't for a round that doesn't want to go into the chamber. It is for a scenario where the buffer spring cannot overcome the friction of the bolt carrier due to a dirty environment or fouled gun, or if the charging handle snags some gear or something, and comes out of battery. Range warriors may never need it on their fun guns, but if you have a duty weapon, or home defense rig, you want that forward assist.
The forward assist saved a few people I know it’s worth the extra weight if your doing a 3 gun competition I could understand shaving a little extra weight and your life’s not on the line if you get a jam just going to lose time if your relying on the rifle for self defense I would highly suggest you have a forward assist on it
Saved my ass in training enough to never buy a weapon without it. I got fixed by an aggressor and the weapon didn't properly go into battery. The FA was the only thing that kept me from "Being Dead," in an extremely real training exercise. Protracted firefights make it mandatory. Even for a weapon that WAS inspection-ready before the engagent.
Forward assists are used more often than ejection seats in military aircraft. The problem is knowing when to use it and when to stop and determine why the bolt doesn’t want to close and lock.
The forward assist is also good if you’re trying to slowly chamber a round quietly. The bcg doesn’t always like being lowered into place and the forward assist gives the extra push to go into battery
When are you not going into a spot with a round chambered? That's the same argument that if someone breaks into your house, just pump the shotgun and they'll go away.
@@picklerick9578 To be honest I have done it a few times. When I lived in Missouri you would be thrown in jail for clambering a round in the wrong spot. For example on the right of way to a state road. Next to the conservation are you hunting. So get your crap on and walk 11 feet and then chamber a round. After working 5, 10 hour shifts getting off at 2.30am with no sleep. It's easy to forget to chamber the round. Not like it's Afghanistan. It's just deer hunting. Sitting next to a tree you realized you forgot to chamber a round and there is a deer walking through the woods. If you have over 40 seasons of hunting under your belt silly things will happen to you also.
It is not pointless especially without a fixed charging handles. I've seen when dirt/sand has gotten into the action/chamber and charging a new round would not fully seat a round, but the forward assist forced it into battery and the next shot blew out the trash and the gun was running fine again.
Only time I’ve had to use it was when I didn’t clean my BCG and it’s action got gummy. Good cleaning fixed it though. Forward assist helped me until I could clean it.
I’m a former Special Forces weapons specialist, 18B if you’re familiar with the Army’s MOSs. I’ve seen the forward assist used, but I’ve most often seen it used when it created more problems than not. There’s a cutout on the side of the bolt carrier that if utilized will give it that extra push if you have a weak buffer spring or dirty gun and it doesn’t go into battery. If you need more push than can be provided using that then you’re much more likely to create a jam then correct anything. That being said, I have no issue with someone that wants a forward assist, just be sure how to use it and don’t pound on it trying to fix a minor problem only to turn it into a major problem.
Okay so just ignore the fact that I've literally put 168,000 rounds through multiple firearms of all military lineage from different countries and they all have the same manual of arms when it comes to overriding a malfunction. You are either BS'ing or the members of that force are completely inept.
First M16 issued to me was serial number 0256 it didn't have a forward assist or shell deflector. The first shot I took with it There was a double feed. The procedure we were instructed on was to drop the magazine and manually cycle it. Check the magazine and chamber a round to proceed. It never gave me any trouble again after that. But I wounder to this day a little more than 52 years later, whenever this topic comes up whether or not if I had the forward assist would I have used it and would it have made a difference. Guess I'll never know. But todate I have used them successfully.
How do you not know? Using the forward assist on a double feed is the WORST thing you can do. You would be trying to mash 2 cases into the chamber and still not be able to fire. The forward assist is only useful for a specific malfunction, when the bolt fails to go into battery, usually because the spring/buffer was too weak to push it in or riding the charging handle. Using the forward assist in any other situation will make it worse.
I shoot once a week and I probably use the forward assist at least once a month. Sometimes it's for a press check and Sometimes it's for loading a fully loaded mag and I don't quite get it completely into battery. Weather it is my fault or the guns, I still use it.
Press checks is one area you see many people skirt over. This is especially true if the gun is newer or just a tight chambering. If you want to silently press check it becomes almost necessary in those scenarios. With new guns that have little to no wear on the bolt lugs or have a very tight chamber the chances of it fully chambering after manipulating the charging handle for a press check is very slim.
@UC5FvUCdCeWv-h9TOBi778VQ he probably means that after doing a press check, the bolt won’t go fully into battery (because not enough spring tension, as you only pull the bolt back partially). Then you tab the bolt with the forward assist.
I saw this one dude from Kenosha who used it to great effect once. Saved his ass for sure. Everything made by man can fail. An every remedy can cause more harm that good if used improperly.
There are about 40 people right in this thread that have testified they use the FA (myself included). That wont matter one bit to the goobers that think you dont need it because Ian and Karl said you dont need it.
The only time I ever used the forward assist I jammed a round so hard into the chamber that instead of extracting, the rim where the extractor is, was ripped off. Definitely put an end to my shooting
Watched dudes in the infantry smash the forward assist on top of a double feed. They mortared that rifle until the buffer tube broke off... went to the armory in pieces thanks to a dumby with a forward assist.
I think the forward assist is even more relevant today given that suppressors have gotten so much more popular. Gets your gun a lot dirtier a lot faster.
If your AR can't run dirty, it probably is because of the quality of your rifle sucks. Watch a BCM AR go over 7,000 rounds with no cleaning: ruclips.net/p/PLmmUI-v7SXNuO6fHtWxpu_YdmnV-Qtdx1
@@Enjoyer.762 I have an 11.5in BCM upper that started choking up after 500rds suppressed in adverse rainy conditions during a carbine course. Love the rifle, but I used the forward assist multiple times that day.
@Bryce Gill Video evidence of your claim or didn't happen. Prove this wrong: A BCM AR go over 7,000 rounds with no cleaning: ruclips.net/p/PLmmUI-v7SXNuO6fHtWxpu_YdmnV-Qtdx1
@@Enjoyer.762 so you just completely did a 180 first saying it should go 7k rounds... then say why would you need to go over 500 rounds. Just another fanboy with minimal knowledge
In my experience in the USAF Basic Training in 1976 my M-16 without forward assist jammed such that the charging handle could not eject a stuck round and they had to give me a different rife to complete the qualification with. That might have been fatal on the battlefield.
Six years in the Marines. Never used it until you get in the desert. Used it several times and without a reciprocating charging handle, should be mandatory. In my case, the gun always "fired it's self clean" after the incident. Usually was caused by debris getting in due to sandy wind, hitting the dirt in wind, vehicles kicking up dirt, even had one case were my battle buddy and I were prone, he was slightly behind. His muzzle blast kicked a small stick and a few pebbles right into my open chamber as I was doing a reload. Stuck BCG, mortared it, still didn't fully chamber, slammed the FA three times and was back in action. Very glad for the FA. Likely handy in really muddy and heavy vegetation. Eugene Stoner was a genius, but most people don't want to admit that their design can be improved or has some issues.
I'm pretty sure that is what happened in the Kyle Rittenhouse case. The moments leading up to the shooting he decided it was time to chamber a round. He didn't want to let it slam with the trademark "clunk" and eased it down. The forward assist saved his life when he realized it didn't go fully into battery. Just as the one guy was jumping on top of him he tapped it and was able to fire.
I have used a forward assist twice. Once at qual range on Ft. Riley and once on my personal firearm here at home. At Riley it was simple carbon build up. We had run the daylights out of our rifles that day. We were using literal spray bottles of CLP to keep them going. I had a round fail to seat all the way. A quick tap moved it through the carbon and dust, into battery. Just a few months ago i was running crappy wolf ammo (it was supper cheap and times are tough ok) and an old steel mag and had a failure to feed. I had had several of these already but this one went just far enough up the feed ramp that a good smack of the forward assist sent it home. So agree with Caleb. Based on the purpose of the rifle, I would rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
I've actually used it while hunting. When heading to the stand I've come up on deer and had to load a round in the chamber as quietly as possible and that means riding the charging handle then using the forward assist to finish putting it into battery. It's worth noting that riding the charging handle can introduce a double feed since the AR is designed for a fast stroke to load each round. It happened to me a few times while practicing for different situations. And before people ask why I don't just head out with a round already chambered, some of my property is thick Texas brush and I've had that brush knock the safety off and get into the trigger area and pull on it. So when going to stands in those areas often In the dark it's just safer to go without a round in the chamber.
You took the words out my mouth. It can be used where stealth is needed. Overwise stoner is right. On a non chambering round, eject the round and try the next. The G3 german gun in some sniper configurations had a forward assist for stealth, the GI models did not. Guns with a non-reciprocating changing handle of which there many in the world, normally do not have such. For a civilian, in most US locals, if you can own an AR you can also own a pistol and there a reason for learning to transition form AR to handgun. If I am so worried about being able to jam a round in a dirty chamber then guns with a fixed bolt on the bolt-bolt carrier group are the war to go. Then you can use shoe leather or the corner of something hard on the gun's bolt to open or close it to deal with a stuck round.
@@mabs9503 you need remedial reading comprehension skills, you seem to miss some very important details. But who am I to prevent you from earning a Darwin award for being stupid.
There are times it can be useful, there are times it can be useless and there are a small few times it can make a jam worse. All in all it doesn't weigh much and can be useful when needed but may be best to figure out the conditions for when or when not to use it. Although given how the world works the moment you get rid of something not ten minutes later you will need that exact thing for something so may be best to just keep the thing.
If you’re using SPORTS then most of the time you should see any obstructions that would cause a round to jam in the chamber. (Assuming it’s daylight or you’re able to use a light.)
Go watch "vindication of the forward assist" "It can make a jam worse" is a personal problem. I know people that completely dismissed the use of tourniquets bc "it can cause a blood clot". Anything can be used incorrectly and if that's your argument then we would no tech at all
@@rodiculous9464 I’m always amazed by the argument of letting someone bleed out in two minutes because you don’t want to cause a blood clot hours later when they’re in the care of doctors that know to watch for them and how to treat them.
We saw a very publicized use of the forward assist back in August of 2020. Without it, events could have been different. For the very little added weight and complexity, it is worth it to me.
I’ve seen it twice in the last 20 years. Guns jammed into obscure positions in matches on barricades and when they pull the trigger the rear section of the receiver blows out around the forward assist, turns out the assist was wedged into the bolt carrier by the barricade. Rare as heck but something to bear in mind.
Sloppy build. I worked on tens of thousands of M16 and M16A-1 rifles and never saw that once. You have seen it twice?? I remember an order coming down to replace the round assist with the "Teardrop" assist as they came in for any other work. Not once had I seen this. Like all the stories now of guns melting or blowing up or "More" MILSPEC than others, it comes down to the guy putting it together.
@@oldgoat1890 it's not the build, it's the rifle being jammed into a tight place and the forward assist being pushed in by something. The receiver forging blows out not just the button.
@@ancientrenegade9243 Sounds like stupidity if it is a repeat event. Some of the grunts are unbelievable when it comes to doing weird things to guns. Never saw it.
@@oldgoat1890 oh it is definitely stupidity that does it, you pretty much have to wedge the rifle into a window frame sideways to have it happen. Nothing is idiot proof.
it is easier to push that forward assist then rack the bolt back again when you have a jam and you don't always have the time to pull the charging handle back.
That's bad reasoning. Better reasons are the fact that you may be trying to remove a case that slipped off the extractor and you need to force the bolt forward to reenage. Or you need to split the upper and lower so forcing it forwards allows you to perform the fix. If you have the time to figure out if you should use the FA, you had time to run the charging handle. Just pressing forward without knowing what's going is exactly why the FA gets a bad rap.
@@setsuna200 If SHTF, pressing forward won't fix it. There's no immediate action that involves pressing the FA sight unseen. You always identify the problem before trying a fix, or else you can create an even worse problem.
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD I hear this "worse problem" a lot. Define a "worse problem" that hitting the FA will cause. I've never seen one. And I can't really think of one off the top of my head either.
As a certified Gunsmith myself, I agree with what Stoner said. Basically the FA is giving you the option to cement the problem. If you can't fix the issue with the charge handle then why force it possibly causing the issue to become much worse. The history behind the FA is that the Marine Corps had never had a rifle without a charge handle fixed to the bolt carrier so they insisted on it. If it makes you feel better, cool. But if you really understand the platform than you know the FA is not a good idea. I do all my builds without and they look and feel less bulky and function flawlessly. I stand with Stoner.
I thought the Marines were agnostic on it and the Army insisted on it. Also, if the round is merely hung up by friction, it’s faster to simply hit the forward assist to chamber the round the rest of the way rather than racking it, especially with how terrible the location of the AR’s charging handle is. The charging handle is the one area where I think the AK is superior ergonomically.
As said on the video, with a new gun and good ammo you won't have to use the forward assist probably ever. However, in the Marines using an M16A4 that has been in service since Iraq that forward assist is definitely necessary. I tap it after every chamber check with my currently issued rifle and I can feel the bolt move ever so slightly forward. It took one misfire on a timed range event for me to adopt this habit. The Marine Corps knew it probably wouldn't get the money to adopt a new rifle anytime soon once the M16 came into service and that these weapons would still have to be used by rear lines of troops for years after they got something newer. Old rifles still have to shoot, and sometimes they need a bit of help to do it. I'd say there's nobody that knows the platform more than the military, and if you talk to anyone they're gonna at least know someone that's had to use it. That makes it a good idea.
@@BeepBoop2221 felon gauge grossgrutes pointed his illegally owned pistol at kyle. Kyle then aimed his ar15 at gauge and pulled the trigger. It didn’t fire. Gauge turned away in fear. While he turned away kyle hit the forward assist and chambered the round. Gauge then turned to re-engage kyle pointing his pistol at kyle again and kyle then fired disabling gauges shooting arm. His life was in danger and the FA absolutely saved his life. And all this can be seen for yourself in the video of the incident.
I’m with Caleb on this one. I have applications for both. But loading a round quietly is easy enough just pushing the bolt forward through the open dust cover.
@@hansbehrends438 The small plate that covers the ejection port to help keep dust, dirt, mud, etc. out of the action. It snaps open when the bolt is moved to the rear when firing or from pulling the charging handle.
It's also known as the scallop cut, and this method is also recommended by InRangeTVs Karl Kasarda if you absolutely need to do it but have no forward assist
Garand Thumb says it's necessary and he used it in the field. I get Stoners arguments when your at the range or at home. "Figure out the problem and fix it". But in the field life or death situation in the mud and sand, worn out beat up using the only ammo you have available that extra tool can be a life saver.
The M16 was in service about a decade when I used it and then other AR platforms and since then tens of thousands of rounds. As a civilian I needed the forward assist 1 time in all those years and IT WAS MY FAULT! However I had it.
@@jameylane1591 The asshole operator was on the range and interfered with the process. Oh that would be me. 😀 Not he rifles fault. But I'm human and not a machine.
In my experience when the bolt didn’t go fully into battery the forward assist only actually worked maybe a quarter to 1/3 of the time. Recharging the weapon works far better
My experience only: forward assist is absolutely necessary if you’re in any situation (usually environmental) that can adversely effect feeding/battery. It’s rarely used but when you need it you can’t hardly live without it. Desert, jungle, high mountain, and vicious arctic conditions have all proven the OCCASIONAL need for forward assist.
@@jameylane1591 So if your buffer spring just started to go bad and a round is not fully in battery, you should stop using the rifle until you replace the buffer spring? Give me a break.
@@Followme556 Funny how I'm right as the beginning of SPORTS is a. Slap upward on the magazine to make sure it is properly seated. b. Pull the charging handle all the way back. c. Observe the ejection of the case or cartridge. Look into the chamber and check for obstructions. d. Release the charging handle to feed a new round in the chamber. Do not ride the charging handle.
@@jameylane1591 You've had several people with combat experience tell you that they have needed it, and used it, with success. There is a time to talk, and a time to learn.
I'll watch this and comment again if I need to but before I do the forward assist is definitely needed unless you are running a side charging system. Also I always use the forward assist when loading a round otherwise I would be running the chance of failure in the field and in a combat situation you run the chance of a double feed and or loss of a round or two due to clearing and reloading in that situation(if the round isn't seated all the way and the bolt isn't locked forward). Can't wait to hear what you guys have to say. Sometimes you change my mind. Sincerely Active Duty Combat Vet
The Airforce fielded the weapon first and found that there was no issues that couldn't be solved by just pulling back on the charging handle. Plus the divet on the side the bolt is for your thumb to push against, to push it into battery.
The divet on the side of the bolt can be slick from lubrication, mud, even water and may not work not to mention you can only provide a fraction of forward force using that. It is not optimal and I would not bet my life on that method.
Eight years in the army, and only used it once…
That being said, it only took one time to appreciate it.
Wait! What did you use it for?
To assist his forward what else?
@@ashsteele7361 Yea no doubt, just wanted to know what happened that it needed to use it.
@@muffemod Rititenhouse used it and saved his life
@@fishgoh0nk Again, unequivocally equally accurate to say that Rittenhouse used an AR and it nearly cost him his life.
It is odd, 7 years on active duty in the Infantry and I never used the FA. After that I spent 13 years in the reserves as a REMF and I used it twice. The Forward Assist is one of those cute little military dodads that are not needed, until they are needed.
This is very interesting, I am curious if reserve and support personal are issued more used and less well maintained service weapons. Either way I agree with your statement.
I was in for 5 years and I used it at least three times.
I was in 8 years and used it 3 times. Needed it each time.
Can you guys elaborate on when you used them? Like what went wrong and how it solved the issue.
I use it all the time after press checking to make sure a round is in the chamber and it ensures the round is seated
Finally, common sense video. If you never take your rifle into the mud, you’ll never need it. I’ve used it twice, and let me explain this clearly and succinctly: it works, its needed, and when your life is on the line, that “doodad” is worth its weight in unicorn tears. USMC Capt 11’ - 17’
The sniper button increases your power, you hold it down to double the damage your rounds do. It’s really useful.
Stop spreading false information!!! Everyone knows you press the sniper button repeatedly to pressurize the round; this increases its speed and damage!
Come on, guys! Enough of the crap. Anyone/everyone who has ever shot a multi-pump BB gun knows the button is used to set the power of the round. 1 pump increases the power by a factor of...YES...one. 2 for 2, 3 of 3. However, as with the BB guns of your childhood...there is a max number of taps, based on whether your upper receiver is forged vs billet, and the makeup of your barrel.
@@gregd8098BWAAAHAHAHAHA 😂 you guys are hilarious
"Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it!" The Forward Assist is one of those things that you may never use until that one time you really need it.
Like those white "float rings" at public pools
I used one in an engagement once.
Glad I had it.
I suppose its like an E brake.
Unless your drifting u never use it.
But when u need it GAWD I hope it works.
People base everything on their own experiences I guess.
For every one of me I'm sure and know there are literally THOUSANDS who never had to use it.
So they figure they dont need it.
But like you said its insurance
Maybe the weekend "tacticool" guys dont need one on their ARs but the military is all about redundancy.
@@chriswilliams5268 well, e brake is daily use. not if you are living in flat land
@@jmmartin7766 No. Like the tether rope on the float rings. Every gun that has a bolt has a charging handle or lever that performs the primary purpose of putting a round into battery the way every float ring, tether or not, floats. Yes, there are some rare and mostly stupid cases where someone falls off a boat in a current and the float ring with a tether attached is more convenient and might save a life. But putting tethers on every float ring is a stupid way to prevent people from falling off of boats in a strong current and the people saying "These tethered float rings are great, they saved my life more than once." speak volumes, not about the tether, but about their ability to recognize their actual problem of routinely falling off a boat.
I had 2 stops in basic, i charged the handle expelling the first 1, later another but used FA on it.
The great thing about today's market for AR-15's is all of the options. If you don't want the forward assist then there are plenty of upper receivers available that don't have it.
Apparently this is why they make side-charging uppers these days.
Left handed receivers
Yep it's a personal choice.
and they all look... wrong
it's a time waster and redundant. people point out that rittenhouse used a bolt assist, he also could have recharged which would have solved any problem the bolt assist did not solve as well. he got lucky that it was a problem the bolt assist could solve
The M16 I was issued in 1973 I had to use the forward assist A LOT. But judging by how dirty the weapon was when I was cleaning it before turning it back in and how worn out it was, the pins were backing out on their own. It was because I got a much less than optimal firearm, but that happens. So I would rather have it (and learn to use it properly, like always operating the charging handle first to remove a potentially defective round and load a fresh one before trying to force one in) than not.
Some decades later while I was in I had to use it once in 20 years. Better to have and not need.
I was gonna say i remember having to use it when in after being at range and shooting thousands of rounds it would start getting gritty and sometimes bolt needed lil nudge
So, because the US government was too cheap to rebuild or replace worn rifles, that's your takeaway of the problem?
Good move, removing the faulty round first. Never understand why people want to use the assist after a failure to fire. The hammer needs to be re-cocked anyway.
@Old Goat A: It's the way some of them were taught in the military, and its the "way it's always done."
B: Many learn it from Guntubers on YT and copy it.
Both A and B are examples of group think.
pfc Patrick Miller, Awarded the silver star with V device for Valor, for holding off an entire company of Iraqi infantry almost singlehandedly with a malfunctioning M16A2 by.using his forward assist over and over.
I'm not him just recounting his story. He won it at the battle of Nasiriyah in 2003.
Have heard of other similar situations like this.
Ditto on PFC MILLER🇺🇸
@@Thatguywiththeface you must not be able to read if you thought it was him from the comment he made lol
@@Valorius You don’t win a medal it is AWARDED to you
Tell the guys in Vietnam with the A1... they needed it. A few years in the 82nd... I used it a lot... not just for jams... but to silently close the bolt. SPORTS is still taught and for a good reason.
As far as I read the reason the army wanted the FA lays in the FN Fal trails. Is was found during arctic testing, that the Fal's bolt tent be get frozen in its most rearward position. In that position the bolt of the original Fal could not been forced forwards and because of the original Fal's design it can not be disassembled due to the bolts tail protruding into the stock of the gun. As soon as the arms saw he m16's design they remembered the Fal trails and immediately requested a FA. A M16 bolt stuck in the rear acts like a blocking pin positively locking upper and lower together, preventing is from being disassembled. If you look at earlier FA designs the purpose is clearly to drive to bolt forward enough to disassemble the gun, not to drive the bolt al the way forwards.
Sources: Black Rifle I and The FN FAL Rifle Classic Edition.
See, _that_ actually makes sense. I remain of the opinion that driving the bolt forward into battery when it doesn't want to go into battery is going to get you into more trouble than it'll get you out of, but driving it forward enough to get the gun opened and remediate the actual issue? That I can understand.
@@PhycoKrusk it definitely could be needed to get the bolt forward in order to get it apart, and it could be used for something as simple as some unspent powder particle that could be the very slight obstruction preventing the gun from going into battery which could be remedied by using the forward assist and getting it back into action by simply pushing it forward, but if it's not there you don't have that option, and if it is difficult to close the bolt because of a major obstruction, then try to extract the cartridge, and if that does not work then you absolutely need to close the bolt in order to get the gun apart to clear it, so in my opinion it has its uses for all of those reasons, but if it's not there your options are limited. I do understand your thinking as well though. Usually you can just recharge the bolt and it will send it into battery without ever trying to force it closed with a handle or forward assist.
@@kimdearrington258 Wrong. If your AR can't run dirty, there's a manufacturing defect with either your AR or the ammo itself. Explain how BCM ARs can run 7,000+ rounds with no cleaning? Watch:
ruclips.net/p/PLmmUI-v7SXNuO6fHtWxpu_YdmnV-Qtdx1
@@PhycoKrusk yea but in practice that doesn't happen.
@@Enjoyer.762 unburnt powder absolutely could interfere with the bolt's travel if it was of sufficient size and amount, no defect required.
The idea that such a thing _can't_ happen results in rifles being issued with no cleaning kits, and we know how _that_ turned out
I know of someone in Wisconsin who sure is glad he had the forward assist on his rifle.
I just made that comment but said his name. Then I looked through the comments to see if anyone else recalled that and came across yours. 👍🏻
came here thinking this too.
I'm glad I had the forward assist in Afghanistan
I came here to say that lol
@@ArmyVet98958 I’m glad you had it too man. Glad you made it out. Thank you for your service.
The forward assist is like a spare tire in the car. very rare that you’ll ever need it but it might save you one day when you’re stuck.
william killingsworth it's like a spare tire with explosives attached to it that go off when you use it. Making an already bad situation worse.
@@jameylane1591 Please provide evidence of use of the forward assist caused an AR15 to explode.
@@Andrew_NJ Are you really this stupid?
@@jameylane1591 Jim you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
@@Followme556 You clearly have a fantasy that you're an expert.
I wore the uniform, and did need the forward assist several times. Even once was enough to convince me. All my AR platforms have them.
What uniform?
💯
was breaking a brand new upper a few weeks ago and on the 1st mag had 3 instances where the bolt did not close... as I do not have a forward assist on this gun i used a tooth brush handle. through the ejection port... may tie it on to the trigger guard with a string just in case :)
@Java N. Lava Very KY Ballistics of you Bud! :) I have those soft Air Force hands so I keep an old toothbrush with my kit for knocking off some of the grime and it turned out that i use it as a forward assist, de-jammer and emergency oral hygiene... figure if CLP is good for your gun then it has got to be good for your teeth and gums.😜
As a 45 - B smallarms repairman 1966 - 1969 in Vietnam , the problems with the early m-16s that we saw were multiple . As you pointed out ammunition was
one cause . Another main contributor was the combination of metals they were constructed of . Two dissimilar metals , aluminum and steel coupled with the brackish swamp water of that environment created a reaction called exfoliation of the aluminum . The steel obviously rust , the aluminum separates into layers causing some minor binding of moving parts . The bolt assist was one of several changes .
Yeah, makes me laugh when these internet "Experts" start spouting off. With the early rifles, the forward assist was just one of many "Fixes". We rebarreled thousands to chrome bored barrels.
@@oldgoat1890,
Were you also 45- bravo ? If so where ? I was with the 618th . Hem co . part of 86th. maint . and 5th. maint batts. We had our base camp in the Cha Rang valley on rte. 19 approximately halfway between Qui Nhon and Ahn Ke . In country March 67 home Feb 69 . Give me some info on where you were " "plumbing guns" please .
@@richardpalmer6196Ha! Ha! "Gunplummer" is one of my ID's. I was moved around a lot, but never got shipped to Vietnam. The Proving Grounds '72 with the Marines 2111(Same as 45-B) about 5 years later went back in with the Army as 45-B. Did all the early M16 work with the Marines. They still had thousands of M-14 's in use. I was in Cuba and there were still some M-1's in the racks. The 48 series tanks had first model 1919 machine guns. They didn't throw anything away. A lot of the M-16 and A-1 rifles were scrap. A lot of lowers scrapped out because of hammer and trigger pin holes worn over size. Notice how the bent barrel problem started to go away when the birdcage flash suppressor came in? I watched a couple of grunts pop the banding on a C-Rat pallet with a 3 prong one day. They said it was common practice. Did you use chrome BCG groups? They were still popping up in the system when I was in the Army. The good old days. Were you involved in the welding of the M-60 receiver mess? Boy that was a cluster.
In thirteen years in the Army, I used it twice. Once on the range qualifying and once in the field. In basic training we were taught the acronym SPORTS which stands for:
S = Slap the bottom of the magazine
P = Pull the charging handle to the rear
O = Observe if anything is ejected from the chamber
R = Release the charging handle
T = Tap the forward assist
S = Squeeze off the next shot
I was taught that back in 1985 and still remember it to this day.
"Put your purse down". I'm dead. Ha.
🤣
Epic...
But the grams, think of the grams of extra weight!
Having served in the US Army I can say there is a few times I am glad there was a forward assist on my M16A1.
My M16A2, same way.
same especially when the lip on a 30 round mag was askew... which was often at the qualifying range
Because it was a piece of junk.
@Mister Samdi Magazines are considered consumable parts. The out of spec magazines are to be replaced, not reused.
@@Enjoyer.762 should be, yes, but sadly were not back when I was in.
Myth that there is no reason to have a forward assist: Busted
I've had to use it for real both as a civilian and as a combat vet. many times, for multiple different reasons.
The forward assist is aesthetically displeasing and on those grounds alone it should be omitted!
For the 22 years in the Army and 2 deployments, and using one as a copper, every time I checked the chamber or had a malfunction, I used the forward assist. At night to chamber a round and be silent, I’d close the bolt slow, then push on the forward assist. If you just go to the range and don’t use it for survival, then do what you want.
In my training we also SLOWLY closed the bolt and used the FA to push it home.
❤
Perfectly said. I have one on mine.. and I use it from time to time when needed. Usually only with a metal magazine that's new. But.. I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. And the price that it adds and the weight that it adds as they claim... Personally I think those people just want something to bitch about.
At night to be silent, I don't leave with an empty gun.
@@adfdasdfadfadsfareae silent or loud, I want the choice for either depending on the needs. Since we carried an M16 or M4 every day in Iraq. At that time, most of the camps we were on, we had UN-loaded weapons (not all had the skills required to have a hot weapon all the time) but everyday we went out, we charged them up…and made lots of noise. As a cop back home, there were several times I pulled the M4 our and wanted to be silent. Good to have the choice. Not to forget the malfunction drills that required slapping the forward assist.
Nearly every auto I’ve ever shot has had a failure to fully go into battery. A tap on the slide or bolt handle always instantly rectified this. Not really an issue at the range, but in a real fight a tap is still faster than racking in a new round.
I’ve also had rounds not fully chamber and at the same time the extractor also did not fully engage the rim. A standard reload drill would not have solved this and would have (and did) make it worse by causing a double feed on top of the first (and now fully chambered) case.
As to jamming a round in and sticking it worse by using the FA, that tiny button has very little leverage and isn’t giving much push to do much more than seat a slightly OOB round.
In my experience the FA is very rarely needed, but when it is i’s better than not having it.
We were quietly and kindly reminded during training at the 356th to grab something harder than our hands to caress that nipple if necessary.
regarding jamming rounds in I found it funny that the people in the video didn't mention that the bolt for an AR (like the one stoner designed not those dumbass aftermarket ones) has a detent in it to put your thumb to push the bolt into battery if you need to.
Stoner knew that there would be OOB issues and designed the rifle so that you could push with your thumb to get the round into battery and if its too hard to do that then just rack the charging handle again and try another round.
@@nilloc93 That detent was not for your thumb it was to open the ejection port cover when you charge the weapon.
@@Andrew_NJ its dual purpose.
@@nilloc93 Show me documentation from Stoner claiming this.
I've always kind of liked the forward assist. It's a very handy way to silently insert a round into my chamber. Just easily pull back on your charging handle and slowly let it come forward. It will pick up a round and ease it up into your chamber. But it will not go all the way forward. So you will have to gently push your forward assist to help the carrier go all the way in. Otherwise you'll have to do the forward assist the normal way and set up the loud slapping sound you can hear to the other side of the field.
Agreed. Best use I know of: complete full battery after softly/quietly chambering.
Used it multiple time, when it gets cold and you get a "slushy slurry" of ice and water in there. In a thin layer, it can prevent battery lock. Using forward assist, fixes it, and does not put the user in danger. It just works.
I agree 100% I've noticed the same thing
If I'm using/building/buying an AR, I want it there. Perfectly summed up with "better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it." How many shooters have had to tap their pistol slide just smidge when it's running super dirty after a long range day? I have. And I don't shoot as much as I want/should.
If your pistol can't handle a bit of carbon build-up, choose one that is more reliable.
@@Enjoyer.762 oh why didn't I think of that!
@@ragnarokbladeworks for real though, get a gun that isn't afraid of running dirty. Nobody is shooting over 1k rounds of pistol in one gunfight and my pistol hasn't been cleaned for as long and doesn't need a tap into place. Stock pistol too, no mods or anything.
Winter conditions here in Alaska I actually have used the forward assist on the AR-15
0:50 This is actually 3/4 incorrect. The Air Force used it first, and saw no need for a forward assist; the Navy and Marines had no opinion on the matter. Only the Army made a big deal about forward assists, and only got it after endlessly badgering the DoD about it.
It was a single general who was the reason for it according to US himself.
This is a wives tale. The US army's field reports showed very clearly it was needed.
Simply false. Here is a video with all the Army source documentation: m.ruclips.net/video/MhjU8InWxr0/видео.html
US Army field testing made it obvious a FA was necessary. So they demanded one.
@@Valorius you need to listen to some of the conversations with stoner about this subject. You would find thats not the case. It was one general who wanted it. Not a group or testing done. That same General was called out on alot of bull shit.
Kyle used it. Under duress.
It likely saved his life.
Like a Boss, he did!!
-- I believe in having a forward assist. Probably the most recent and well known example of effective use of the forward assist, is Kyle Rittenhouse. One might argue it saved his life. Kyle had to smack his FA while Gauge Grosskreutz (whatever his name) was bringing to bear that Glock on Kyle's head.
The Rittenhouse event changed my mind on this topic. I'm with you on having a forward assist.
It's insane that a 17 yr old kid had the composure to even think of the FA let alone pull it off in combat. I still can't believe how well he did at only shooting at threats either. He's a calm sob.
I don’t remember anyone bringing 2 bears against Kyle in that story
@@NoName-ml5yk I'm almost convinced that he's a sleeper cell agent of some kind.... No sarcasm. I've really study that incident and it's either 1) He's seen combat somewhere before and had to apply many MANY different scenarios in life saving situations or 2) He's the litteral definition of sleeper cell agent. Even after being blindsided and fell to the ground, not 1 second was wasted and the fact that a single point sling litteraly saved his life is crazy in itself. He most likely would have died if it weren't for his single point.
@@raspillade6027 Truth! In fact, some were actually stripped of their bear arms during that encounter!
For me, that covers it very well. GOD bless you and Yours.
There are a bunch of guns that don't have a forward assist. HK G3, MP 5, Steyr aug (sort of), Tavor, CZ Scorpion evo, FS 2000 And a bunch more. But most military rifles do have a forward assist because most of them are some variant of ar 15 or ak. I would say a forward assist is not needed but it doesn't hurt anything to have it either. It only adds about 1 ounce to the rifle and now the forward assist in ar 15s are so common you have to pay more in some cases to get an upper without one.
An old saying is still true today, "Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it." Enough said.
Amen brother man, you said everything that need be said on the subject, done and done.
Kind of like the old saying "better to deal with the problem correctly than use a halfassed solution that no firearm designer in history including Eugene Stoner has ever designed for their gun.."
You might want to look up the early AR-10 he designed. Total failure. Most of you internet "Experts" were not even born when the M16 and M16A-1 were being used. 40 years of changes and band aides applied to the M16, and the forward assist was one of the better ones.
@@oldgoat1890 It didn't fix anything.
I never needed one until I did. -40 weather I needed it for most magazines for one or even two rounds. When I reloaded those mags I left two out and it sorted the gun without needing the assist. (I was at a 3 gun event). And then two weeks later the snow and cold was gone and it was only +5 and I somehow got some mud on top of my mags, (mud snuck down my webbing and settled on two mags) and I needed it again for one or two rounds. Never needed it before or since. So in two random weeks in 30 years I smashed that button about 12-15 times and zero times all 15,000 other weeks!
BTW I came in second place in that -40 event because nobody else could keep their guns going but I was “smart” and used either no lube or specifically cold weather lube. I’m not a podium level competitor but I am obstinate and cold or hot, rain or snow I will keep going.
I've shot thousands of rounds through AR's and never once used the forward assist to get the gun in battery. However I'm just a civilian and have the luxury of my guns always being clean and oiled so I've never needed it. I could see it as being critical though for armed forces, if they are in combat and get some dirt or girt in the gun and they need to get it into battery without cleaning.
16 years in the military, 2 deployments... I've never used a forward assist, and don't see it as a useful feature.
@@joeytomato Ive used mine in the Infantry. What did you do in the military?
PFC Patrick Miller got a silver sta by using his FA, and Kyle Rittenhouse saved his life with a FA.
Were your 2 deployments in the laundry service?
@@joeytomato Brother the FA is very useful when "the enemy" aren't that smart and are not familiar with the platform. There was a old ISIS video where ISIS members were using captured A2. Every time the ISIS guy reload he constantly hit the FA to chamber a round. There was a scene where he reloaded, kept hitting the FA, barking orders at some young kid and when he shoulder the A2 the gun didn't go bang because the bolt wasn't in full battery. He racked the charging handle, the round in the chamber ejected, the bolt chambered a new round and the gun is ready back in action ready to go bang but again he kept hitting the FA.
Yep; I've never had to use the gadget in anger (unlike the firearm itself), but if your long-term gun storage is on the ground laying next to you when off-watch, and the last lubrication was slime of the bomb-crater you recently fell into during a BDA, then it is nice to know it is there... Military arms should be built for the very-worst-case scenario (then double it), not what looks the "best" when all tricked out for the firing range... Not sure it is needed for the garden-variety AR15, but for the M16 in its original environment, it was a great idea...
@@Followme556 The airsoft infantry? I didn't think your two mommy's would let you play with guns...
Just based on the stupidity of your comment in the other thread, I call bullshit on your "infantry" service.
My bootcamp issued M16 A2 needed one on reloads, not initial "make ready".
Yes 👀
There were quite a few time I had to use mine in the army. Its useful when the bolt just doesn't quite go home. There were a few times where I'd give it a love tap when I was just standing around I didn't know before I tapped it that the round wasn't fully seated and it saved me an awkward *click* later on so it just became a habit.
Am I right in thinking the reload drill you're taught includes "push the forward assist (just in case)" at the end?
"Better to have and not need than need and not have"
Those are words of wisdom.
Classic and forever true advice!
Where's the limit?
Body armor in public? Private fire truck? Nuclear shelter?
😉
I have body armor fire extinguishers and a tornado shelter. And yep...all my ARs have a FA.
Unless, by having the forward assist, you make matters worse for yourself. It introduces another item on the rifle that can snag on something. It can make a bad jam into a catastrophic jam.
There is an unseen cost to every decision - even when it seems like an innocuous cutout and pushbutton on the side of a rifle.
I don’t need, and don’t have a “fail” assist on my AK. lol
Anyone who says you dont need it hasn't been in harsh enough conditions. You 110% need it.
Nope, don't need it!
Agreed
Unless you have an AK.
@@mikeyerke3920 The AK has a forward assist moron.
Ofc, needed it for artic training in Alaska and being in the prone in Iraq while I was bounding
Needed? no. I prefer to have one, though. My hypothetical scenario goes like this: you're in your hunting blind for three days and haven't seen a deer for two. you get kinda bored or for some other reason do not have a round in the chamber of your gun. You finally notice a big buck that somehow appeared less than 10 yards from you. You don't want to slam the bolt shut cause you'll scare him off so you walk the handle down only to discover there's just enough friction to keep the carrier back a bit too far... I'll let you use your imagination for the rest.
I have used the forward assist many times when doing a press check to confirm I got a round in the chamber, sometimes the rifle does not want to close the bolt fully when preforming a simple press check. In the environment I work, it helps in remaining more silent.
Got yelled at by clint at thunderranch for doing a press check and using the assist.
@@cjlane4465 he is a Marine, they like to yell.
I also think it's important to point out that while pulling the charging handle doesn't take much time, it does take proper orientation to the rifle and there are only so many angles you can effectively pull it back from, where as forward assist can be used from compromised positions.
I've also had a round that for whatever reason got stuck not quite in battery and could not be pulled out with the charging handle without a lot more force than it took smacking the forward assist to get it the rest of the way in and I could fire and cycle properly again.
The CH can also cause a double feed malfunction, which takes a hell of a lot longer to clear than hitting your FA.
EXACTLY! You CANNOT use the charging handle to SEAT a round It WILL BEND! I fully understand Stoners arguement However there ARE some cases where you need a "bolt" to manipulate.
In a life or death situation with one round left in the magazine, running the charging handle and ejecting you last round will get you killed.
@@red9man2130 I wouldnt say "cannot". If there is, say, a tiny mud caked pebble in the chamber, you can certainly use the FA to crush the shoulder of the shell casing thereby allowing the bolt to enter fully into battery.
Brass cases are soft enough that you can power a round in there in some cases, if you really have to.
I wanted to build a 9mm AR upper without the forward assist, however, the cmmg radial-delayed blowback bolt carrier group specifies that an enlarged ejection port is recommended. I was looking at Aero precision stripped uppers, and the enlarged ejection port upper receivers (the XL line) all have forward assists. Sometime you have to play the hand your delt.
Midway sells a billet type, large ejection port , assist-free upper receiver....OOOPS! I forgot. This is the Brownell's Channel
But seriously, IDK if the Midway U/R would work with the CMMG delay blow back stuff.
I went to boot camp in 1971 the range rifles we qualified with were slab sided M-16s. (No forward assist). Mine jammed so much from not going in battery I had to go back with another company to qualify the next day. I didn't trust the M-16 for tens years because of it even after qualifying expert with it. So my vote is Yes on the forward assist.
@Ron Robertson - Doesn't make sense. If your rifle was "jammed" the FA would be the last thing you'd want to use. If the round simply wasn't chambering all the way you are supposed to use the charge handle. There may be a reason for the round not chambering and crushing it in is a pretty stupid idea. FA is an abomination. The words of the creator of the AR-15 but you probably know more than him right. LMAO
@@wockawocka5293 The problem isn’t the round has something wrong, simply that the springs were so worn out and weak that it didn’t have enough juice to overcome friction and fully get into battery. Sure, it’d be fine if the gun is always maintained properly, but reality of military service is they won’t be. In that case, having a way to quickly remediate the problem is better than not having it.
Eugene Stoner isn’t right about everything.
@@wockawocka5293 If the round isn't fully into battery (AKA, 95% of the time the extractor has not gripped the round) then you have just created a double-feed, unless you're looking into the ejection port, in which case it's no longer an Immediate Action solution. Good work genius.
Ammo was not good back then
Sometimes if you don't chamber your AR firm enough, you will need that little bump on the forward assist to fully chamber the round. That's an everyday thing for new shooters. 100% no issue having one.
I use forward assist to manually feed single ammo without cocking the handle for stealthy purposes
I needed it on my m16 straight from the armorer a few times. Never understood the fuss. It's there if you need it. Why not argue about patch boxes in the butt stock?
What is a patch box in the butt stock?
@@JaggedJack1 its only a thing on muzzleloaders. there is a compartment on the stock where patches are stored. you load the bullet with a patch so your shot is more accurate and it helps blow out some powder residue, but since the patch makes the bore tighter, it will be slower to ram the ball down.
it was a really bad comparison to a forward assist
@@JaggedJack1 a cleaning patch.
Peter Allen - Maybe the people who crammed their bolt in, thus causing a more serious failure aren't around to talk about it?
@@luansagara Dude..the M16 has a trap door in the stock and a lot of soldiers keep cleaning patches in it.
When most youtubers saying you don’t need it, trust me, you need it, just in case. It never hurt the gun.
The engineers in my neighborhood worked for Mellonics, and they had a lot of experience with the FAL in different wars. These engineers explained why the forward assist was needed.
As someone that has SP1s and FALs I can say that a forward assis is needed. I rarely used it, but I have used it. With the SP1 and the FAL I have needed a forward assist ...and didn't have it.
Do I recommens using the forward asssit? Rarely. I prefer to run the action. I never slap the forward assist when loading. The forward assist helps out with some mechanical issues. It also helps when using the AR in some dirty/dusty conditions. It can help with press checks, kinda.
Stoner is not a God. He was sometimes a cry baby. Nobody is perfect. He designed the AR system well, but others made great contributions to make the AR as popular as it is today.
Indeed some versions of the FAL did have the ability to lock the charging handle into the bolt temporarily for this purpose. I think the Israelis did this.
Exactly Stoner, was never in a combat situation with the M16. He had an obsession with the gun's weight above everything and anything else. The worship of everything Stoner said by his fanboys is narrowminded.
Thanks for the feedback. I did not know of that fixed charging handle option on the FAL. Makes sense with sand.
The anti-forward assist people have never struggled with the FAL, attempting to get it into battery. Frustration!
Stone was a great designer, much better than me. He wasn't perfect.
Also, he was designing the AR with 1950's technology and machine tools. 70 years later there are more possibilities. That doesn't make Stoner wrong, but we can do much more.
Never used the forward assist, the only time I ever had a round not seat was because I was distracted and road the charging handle forward... then I simply closed it with my thumb and it was just as quick
Thank you. No one else here knows there's a perfectly good forward assist already built into the bolt carrier
Are you left handed by chance?
The same saying it’s better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
My mid 1970's era Colt SP1 has never failed to chamber a round, except, when people try to ease the round into the chamber, instead of pulling the charger back and letting it go to load. Also, I can never really remember ever having to use the assist, during my time in the services, in all the years I was in and using the M16/CAR, Pre-M4 days, rifles. All of my newer AR15 rifles do have them on their uppers though and I really don't have a problem with them being there. The time may come when it's needed and I'll be glad it's there. Until then, I keep it clean and keep it lubed.
I think it’s more necessary than not. The way I see it, on an ak, you have direct access to a protruding part of the bolt carrier to slam it shut if need be. A forward assist just gives the same capability to an ar platform by giving you direct contact to the bolt carrier
Yeah, let us force a round that doesn't want to chamber. Make total sense.
@@Enjoyer.762 like I said, it gives you options. Great fresh viewpoint by the way. Thank you for the input. It was very helpful
@@wesleyfrix7979 Except that you would only be exacerbating a problem not solving it.
@Wesley Frix And have you even thought through why a round wouldn't chamber?
@@Enjoyer.762 it makes a lot of sense under fire. It is a part of remedial action drills because it can get you back into the fight.
It isn't for a round that doesn't want to go into the chamber. It is for a scenario where the buffer spring cannot overcome the friction of the bolt carrier due to a dirty environment or fouled gun, or if the charging handle snags some gear or something, and comes out of battery.
Range warriors may never need it on their fun guns, but if you have a duty weapon, or home defense rig, you want that forward assist.
The forward assist saved a few people I know it’s worth the extra weight if your doing a 3 gun competition I could understand shaving a little extra weight and your life’s not on the line if you get a jam just going to lose time if your relying on the rifle for self defense I would highly suggest you have a forward assist on it
Saved my ass in training enough to never buy a weapon without it. I got fixed by an aggressor and the weapon didn't properly go into battery. The FA was the only thing that kept me from "Being Dead," in an extremely real training exercise. Protracted firefights make it mandatory. Even for a weapon that WAS inspection-ready before the engagent.
Caleb got a lot of flak on Facebook by some competition shooters about it lame asses don’t get it
@@intellectualiconoclasm3264 thank you for your service
I use the forward assist while hunting to chamber a round slowly and quietly.
Forward assists are used more often than ejection seats in military aircraft.
The problem is knowing when to use it and when to stop and determine why the bolt doesn’t want to close and lock.
The forward assist is also good if you’re trying to slowly chamber a round quietly. The bcg doesn’t always like being lowered into place and the forward assist gives the extra push to go into battery
When are you not going into a spot with a round chambered? That's the same argument that if someone breaks into your house, just pump the shotgun and they'll go away.
This is a dumb reason. Stop carrying around an unloaded gun.
@@leoleonardo6810 there's a notch/groove that you can push on but you can't get a lot of traction.
@@picklerick9578 To be honest I have done it a few times. When I lived in Missouri you would be thrown in jail for clambering a round in the wrong spot. For example on the right of way to a state road. Next to the conservation are you hunting. So get your crap on and walk 11 feet and then chamber a round. After working 5, 10 hour shifts getting off at 2.30am with no sleep. It's easy to forget to chamber the round. Not like it's Afghanistan. It's just deer hunting. Sitting next to a tree you realized you forgot to chamber a round and there is a deer walking through the woods. If you have over 40 seasons of hunting under your belt silly things will happen to you also.
@@leoleonardo6810 No, you just chamber a round.
It is not pointless especially without a fixed charging handles. I've seen when dirt/sand has gotten into the action/chamber and charging a new round would not fully seat a round, but the forward assist forced it into battery and the next shot blew out the trash and the gun was running fine again.
Right on about fixed charge handle, and I have used my forward assist a couple times like you said.
Exactly
Every time I see one of these videos pop up "hey I have had to use my forward assist and would have been stuck without it."
all you have to do is push the bolt forward with your finger
Only time I’ve had to use it was when I didn’t clean my BCG and it’s action got gummy. Good cleaning fixed it though. Forward assist helped me until I could clean it.
I’m a former Special Forces weapons specialist, 18B if you’re familiar with the Army’s MOSs. I’ve seen the forward assist used, but I’ve most often seen it used when it created more problems than not. There’s a cutout on the side of the bolt carrier that if utilized will give it that extra push if you have a weak buffer spring or dirty gun and it doesn’t go into battery. If you need more push than can be provided using that then you’re much more likely to create a jam then correct anything.
That being said, I have no issue with someone that wants a forward assist, just be sure how to use it and don’t pound on it trying to fix a minor problem only to turn it into a major problem.
2111 in the Marine Corps, here. You guys don't know how to use your rifles.
That cutout on the side of the bolt carrier can get painfully hot to the touch pretty quick during a firing session.
Fuckin doubt that bud.
Okay so just ignore the fact that I've literally put 168,000 rounds through multiple firearms of all military lineage from different countries and they all have the same manual of arms when it comes to overriding a malfunction. You are either BS'ing or the members of that force are completely inept.
One thing I look for when shopping for a new upper is a forward assist. If it doesn't have one it's immediately eliminated from consideration...
First M16 issued to me was serial number 0256 it didn't have a forward assist or shell deflector. The first shot I took with it There was a double feed. The procedure we were instructed on was to drop the magazine and manually cycle it. Check the magazine and chamber a round to proceed. It never gave me any trouble again after that. But I wounder to this day a little more than 52 years later, whenever this topic comes up whether or not if I had the forward assist would I have used it and would it have made a difference. Guess I'll never know. But todate I have used them successfully.
How do you not know? Using the forward assist on a double feed is the WORST thing you can do. You would be trying to mash 2 cases into the chamber and still not be able to fire. The forward assist is only useful for a specific malfunction, when the bolt fails to go into battery, usually because the spring/buffer was too weak to push it in or riding the charging handle. Using the forward assist in any other situation will make it worse.
@@JohnDoe11VIIto answer your questions, read what I wrote. " I'll never know if it would have made any difference "
I shoot once a week and I probably use the forward assist at least once a month. Sometimes it's for a press check and Sometimes it's for loading a fully loaded mag and I don't quite get it completely into battery. Weather it is my fault or the guns, I still use it.
Press checks is one area you see many people skirt over. This is especially true if the gun is newer or just a tight chambering. If you want to silently press check it becomes almost necessary in those scenarios. With new guns that have little to no wear on the bolt lugs or have a very tight chamber the chances of it fully chambering after manipulating the charging handle for a press check is very slim.
@UC5FvUCdCeWv-h9TOBi778VQ he probably means that after doing a press check, the bolt won’t go fully into battery (because not enough spring tension, as you only pull the bolt back partially). Then you tab the bolt with the forward assist.
I saw this one dude from Kenosha who used it to great effect once. Saved his ass for sure.
Everything made by man can fail. An every remedy can cause more harm that good if used improperly.
I've used the forward assist. And it sounds and feels good when I use it 😁
Lube my fren Lube😉
I use the F/A all the time while coyote hunting in the winter here in Minnesota, the cold affects oil viscosity and lock up on chambering .
There are about 40 people right in this thread that have testified they use the FA (myself included). That wont matter one bit to the goobers that think you dont need it because Ian and Karl said you dont need it.
"The gun that didn't need to be cleaned" is like saying your bottom doesn't need to be wiped.😝
the foward assist is the reason kyle rittenhouse didnt get shot. he used i to seat a round before the other guy could draw.
Been scrolling the last five minutes to see if anyone else would remember this. And yes the FA is absolutely needed
@@johnathanwells7363 I was on the fence about it before, now I’m sold and always having one.
Petition to change the name of Forward Assist to "Rittenhouse's Regards".
He could have simply reracked the rifle. That’s why it’s irrelevant. If your rifle won’t seat it properly you probably shouldnt shoot it
@@kaisercollins3097 if some1 is shooting at you you don't really have a choice...
The only time I ever used the forward assist I jammed a round so hard into the chamber that instead of extracting, the rim where the extractor is, was ripped off. Definitely put an end to my shooting
Watched dudes in the infantry smash the forward assist on top of a double feed. They mortared that rifle until the buffer tube broke off... went to the armory in pieces thanks to a dumby with a forward assist.
I think the forward assist is even more relevant today given that suppressors have gotten so much more popular. Gets your gun a lot dirtier a lot faster.
If your AR can't run dirty, it probably is because of the quality of your rifle sucks. Watch a BCM AR go over 7,000 rounds with no cleaning: ruclips.net/p/PLmmUI-v7SXNuO6fHtWxpu_YdmnV-Qtdx1
@@Enjoyer.762 I have an 11.5in BCM upper that started choking up after 500rds suppressed in adverse rainy conditions during a carbine course. Love the rifle, but I used the forward assist multiple times that day.
@Bryce Gill Video evidence of your claim or didn't happen. Prove this wrong: A BCM AR go over 7,000 rounds with no cleaning: ruclips.net/p/PLmmUI-v7SXNuO6fHtWxpu_YdmnV-Qtdx1
@Bryce Gill Also, tell me how many gun fights you think you will be in where you would be shooting over 500 rounds?
@@Enjoyer.762 so you just completely did a 180 first saying it should go 7k rounds... then say why would you need to go over 500 rounds. Just another fanboy with minimal knowledge
In my experience in the USAF Basic Training in 1976 my M-16 without forward assist jammed such that the charging handle could not eject a stuck round and they had to give me a different rife to complete the qualification with. That might have been fatal on the battlefield.
Six years in the Marines. Never used it until you get in the desert. Used it several times and without a reciprocating charging handle, should be mandatory. In my case, the gun always "fired it's self clean" after the incident. Usually was caused by debris getting in due to sandy wind, hitting the dirt in wind, vehicles kicking up dirt, even had one case were my battle buddy and I were prone, he was slightly behind. His muzzle blast kicked a small stick and a few pebbles right into my open chamber as I was doing a reload. Stuck BCG, mortared it, still didn't fully chamber, slammed the FA three times and was back in action. Very glad for the FA. Likely handy in really muddy and heavy vegetation. Eugene Stoner was a genius, but most people don't want to admit that their design can be improved or has some issues.
The answer, like most gun debates, is "depends on your use case."
I don’t use the forward assist very often but I’m glad it’s there.
Leroy Jenkins - What abou the 99.999% of all other firearms that don't have one?
Kinda like a fire extinguisher, reassuring to see it hanging on the wall, really helpful when you have a fire. Nice myth bust.
I use mine mostly when I want to quietly chamber a round and don't want the big "ker shank" sound to alert nearby quarry.
I'm pretty sure that is what happened in the Kyle Rittenhouse case. The moments leading up to the shooting he decided it was time to chamber a round. He didn't want to let it slam with the trademark "clunk" and eased it down. The forward assist saved his life when he realized it didn't go fully into battery. Just as the one guy was jumping on top of him he tapped it and was able to fire.
I have used a forward assist twice. Once at qual range on Ft. Riley and once on my personal firearm here at home. At Riley it was simple carbon build up. We had run the daylights out of our rifles that day. We were using literal spray bottles of CLP to keep them going. I had a round fail to seat all the way. A quick tap moved it through the carbon and dust, into battery.
Just a few months ago i was running crappy wolf ammo (it was supper cheap and times are tough ok) and an old steel mag and had a failure to feed. I had had several of these already but this one went just far enough up the feed ramp that a good smack of the forward assist sent it home. So agree with Caleb. Based on the purpose of the rifle, I would rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
BUT MuH DoooD I DoNT NEeDz IT On MuH SquARE RAnGE! So neither do combat troops!
- The internet
For perspective's sake, I'm pretty sure nobody felt the NEED to wear seatbelts as well -- at the time it was invented.
Since we're on the topic of seat belts: those are also unnecessary and (interestingly enough) also only there because the government said so.
@@PHIllip324 except that they keep people from being ejected and killed. Other than that, I guess seat belts aren't necessary.
I've actually used it while hunting. When heading to the stand I've come up on deer and had to load a round in the chamber as quietly as possible and that means riding the charging handle then using the forward assist to finish putting it into battery.
It's worth noting that riding the charging handle can introduce a double feed since the AR is designed for a fast stroke to load each round. It happened to me a few times while practicing for different situations.
And before people ask why I don't just head out with a round already chambered, some of my property is thick Texas brush and I've had that brush knock the safety off and get into the trigger area and pull on it. So when going to stands in those areas often In the dark it's just safer to go without a round in the chamber.
This is a dumb reason. Stop carrying around an unloaded gun.
Sounds like you are just as afraid of your gun as the liberals are.
You took the words out my mouth. It can be used where stealth is needed. Overwise stoner is right. On a non chambering round, eject the round and try the next. The G3 german gun in some sniper configurations had a forward assist for stealth, the GI models did not. Guns with a non-reciprocating changing handle of which there many in the world, normally do not have such.
For a civilian, in most US locals, if you can own an AR you can also own a pistol and there a reason for learning to transition form AR to handgun.
If I am so worried about being able to jam a round in a dirty chamber then guns with a fixed bolt on the bolt-bolt carrier group are the war to go. Then you can use shoe leather or the corner of something hard on the gun's bolt to open or close it to deal with a stuck round.
@@leoleonardo6810 you can though it can be more difficult to do with gloves on.
@@mabs9503 you need remedial reading comprehension skills, you seem to miss some very important details.
But who am I to prevent you from earning a Darwin award for being stupid.
There are times it can be useful, there are times it can be useless and there are a small few times it can make a jam worse. All in all it doesn't weigh much and can be useful when needed but may be best to figure out the conditions for when or when not to use it. Although given how the world works the moment you get rid of something not ten minutes later you will need that exact thing for something so may be best to just keep the thing.
If you’re using SPORTS then most of the time you should see any obstructions that would cause a round to jam in the chamber. (Assuming it’s daylight or you’re able to use a light.)
Go watch "vindication of the forward assist"
"It can make a jam worse" is a personal problem. I know people that completely dismissed the use of tourniquets bc "it can cause a blood clot". Anything can be used incorrectly and if that's your argument then we would no tech at all
@@rodiculous9464 agreed
@@rodiculous9464 I’m always amazed by the argument of letting someone bleed out in two minutes because you don’t want to cause a blood clot hours later when they’re in the care of doctors that know to watch for them and how to treat them.
We saw a very publicized use of the forward assist back in August of 2020. Without it, events could have been different. For the very little added weight and complexity, it is worth it to me.
I’ve seen it twice in the last 20 years. Guns jammed into obscure positions in matches on barricades and when they pull the trigger the rear section of the receiver blows out around the forward assist, turns out the assist was wedged into the bolt carrier by the barricade. Rare as heck but something to bear in mind.
Sloppy build. I worked on tens of thousands of M16 and M16A-1 rifles and never saw that once. You have seen it twice?? I remember an order coming down to replace the round assist with the "Teardrop" assist as they came in for any other work. Not once had I seen this. Like all the stories now of guns melting or blowing up or "More" MILSPEC than others, it comes down to the guy putting it together.
@@oldgoat1890 it's not the build, it's the rifle being jammed into a tight place and the forward assist being pushed in by something. The receiver forging blows out not just the button.
@@ancientrenegade9243 Sounds like stupidity if it is a repeat event. Some of the grunts are unbelievable when it comes to doing weird things to guns. Never saw it.
@@oldgoat1890 oh it is definitely stupidity that does it, you pretty much have to wedge the rifle into a window frame sideways to have it happen. Nothing is idiot proof.
it is easier to push that forward assist then rack the bolt back again when you have a jam and you don't always have the time to pull the charging handle back.
That's bad reasoning. Better reasons are the fact that you may be trying to remove a case that slipped off the extractor and you need to force the bolt forward to reenage. Or you need to split the upper and lower so forcing it forwards allows you to perform the fix.
If you have the time to figure out if you should use the FA, you had time to run the charging handle. Just pressing forward without knowing what's going is exactly why the FA gets a bad rap.
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD when shit hits the fan you don't always get the time. But if you have the time do it.
@@setsuna200 If SHTF, pressing forward won't fix it. There's no immediate action that involves pressing the FA sight unseen. You always identify the problem before trying a fix, or else you can create an even worse problem.
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD SPORTS
@@ChucksSEADnDEAD I hear this "worse problem" a lot. Define a "worse problem" that hitting the FA will cause. I've never seen one. And I can't really think of one off the top of my head either.
It’s not that it doesn’t. It’s that it helps with helping your bolt go back into battery under duress
Mr. Rittenhouse is a big fan of the forward assist. Claims it saved his life.
As a certified Gunsmith myself, I agree with what Stoner said. Basically the FA is giving you the option to cement the problem. If you can't fix the issue with the charge handle then why force it possibly causing the issue to become much worse. The history behind the FA is that the Marine Corps had never had a rifle without a charge handle fixed to the bolt carrier so they insisted on it. If it makes you feel better, cool. But if you really understand the platform than you know the FA is not a good idea. I do all my builds without and they look and feel less bulky and function flawlessly. I stand with Stoner.
I thought the Marines were agnostic on it and the Army insisted on it.
Also, if the round is merely hung up by friction, it’s faster to simply hit the forward assist to chamber the round the rest of the way rather than racking it, especially with how terrible the location of the AR’s charging handle is. The charging handle is the one area where I think the AK is superior ergonomically.
You should read the comments n then change your mind. Real life n death situations solved by using it.
As said on the video, with a new gun and good ammo you won't have to use the forward assist probably ever.
However, in the Marines using an M16A4 that has been in service since Iraq that forward assist is definitely necessary. I tap it after every chamber check with my currently issued rifle and I can feel the bolt move ever so slightly forward. It took one misfire on a timed range event for me to adopt this habit. The Marine Corps knew it probably wouldn't get the money to adopt a new rifle anytime soon once the M16 came into service and that these weapons would still have to be used by rear lines of troops for years after they got something newer. Old rifles still have to shoot, and sometimes they need a bit of help to do it.
I'd say there's nobody that knows the platform more than the military, and if you talk to anyone they're gonna at least know someone that's had to use it. That makes it a good idea.
Another excellent presentation!
Can you guys do an oil vs grease episode?
I've had to use it
According to his interview, Kyle Rittenhouse's life was saved by the need to use the forward assist.
Exactly. I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
@@BeepBoop2221 felon gauge grossgrutes pointed his illegally owned pistol at kyle. Kyle then aimed his ar15 at gauge and pulled the trigger. It didn’t fire. Gauge turned away in fear. While he turned away kyle hit the forward assist and chambered the round. Gauge then turned to re-engage kyle pointing his pistol at kyle again and kyle then fired disabling gauges shooting arm. His life was in danger and the FA absolutely saved his life. And all this can be seen for yourself in the video of the incident.
@@outlawcrx This is such a humble educational response to debunk false statements with no slander, thank you for that
I’m with Caleb on this one. I have applications for both.
But loading a round quietly is easy enough just pushing the bolt forward through the open dust cover.
Same.
If you really think about it, the AR has 2 forward assists. The main one and the indent on the BCG
sincere question, but what is a "dust cover"?
@@hansbehrends438 The small plate that covers the ejection port to help keep dust, dirt, mud, etc. out of the action. It snaps open when the bolt is moved to the rear when firing or from pulling the charging handle.
It's also known as the scallop cut, and this method is also recommended by InRangeTVs Karl Kasarda if you absolutely need to do it but have no forward assist
Garand Thumb says it's necessary and he used it in the field. I get Stoners arguments when your at the range or at home. "Figure out the problem and fix it". But in the field life or death situation in the mud and sand, worn out beat up using the only ammo you have available that extra tool can be a life saver.
A rifle with a reciprocating charging handle like an AK or an M14 has a built in "forward assist" so the AR is equivalent.
The M16 was in service about a decade when I used it and then other AR platforms and since then tens of thousands of rounds. As a civilian I needed the forward assist 1 time in all those years and IT WAS MY FAULT! However I had it.
Your thumb would work just fine
David Milisock - When did you "need" it?
@@jameylane1591 The asshole operator was on the range and interfered with the process. Oh that would be me. 😀 Not he rifles fault. But I'm human and not a machine.
In my experience when the bolt didn’t go fully into battery the forward assist only actually worked maybe a quarter to 1/3 of the time. Recharging the weapon works far better
My experience only: forward assist is absolutely necessary if you’re in any situation (usually environmental) that can adversely effect feeding/battery. It’s rarely used but when you need it you can’t hardly live without it. Desert, jungle, high mountain, and vicious arctic conditions have all proven the OCCASIONAL need for forward assist.
Don Moffett it's not how you deal with a malfunction. Ever.
@@jameylane1591 So if your buffer spring just started to go bad and a round is not fully in battery, you should stop using the rifle until you replace the buffer spring? Give me a break.
@@jameylane1591 That's wrong. Always.
@@Followme556 Funny how I'm right as the beginning of SPORTS is a. Slap upward on the magazine to make sure it is properly seated.
b. Pull the charging handle all the way back.
c. Observe the ejection of the case or cartridge. Look into the chamber and check for obstructions.
d. Release the charging handle to feed a new round in the chamber. Do not ride the charging handle.
@@jameylane1591 You've had several people with combat experience tell you that they have needed it, and used it, with success. There is a time to talk, and a time to learn.
20 years of service, needed it and used it several times. Glad I had it. You don't miss it until it's gone.
Have always appreciated the FA. Used it a time or two over seas.
It came in handy for Kyle Rittenhouse. That’s a real world example, not hypothetical.
I'll watch this and comment again if I need to but before I do the forward assist is definitely needed unless you are running a side charging system. Also I always use the forward assist when loading a round otherwise I would be running the chance of failure in the field and in a combat situation you run the chance of a double feed and or loss of a round or two due to clearing and reloading in that situation(if the round isn't seated all the way and the bolt isn't locked forward). Can't wait to hear what you guys have to say. Sometimes you change my mind. Sincerely Active Duty Combat Vet
If the forward assist saved even one American Serviceman's life it is worth every penny and ounce of weight it adds to the weapon.
The Airforce fielded the weapon first and found that there was no issues that couldn't be solved by just pulling back on the charging handle. Plus the divet on the side the bolt is for your thumb to push against, to push it into battery.
The air force doesn't have any infantrymen.
@@Valorius that's not entirely true. They do have security forces, PJs (downed pilot recovery)as well as special ops recon groups.
The divet on the side of the bolt can be slick from lubrication, mud, even water and may not work not to mention you can only provide a fraction of forward force using that. It is not optimal and I would not bet my life on that method.
I’ve used it a few times, and if I didn’t have it that would be trouble. Not having it is like not having a spare tire.
Other guns dont need it because the bolt is directly connected to the charging handle, that can be pushed forward to seat the cartridge.