As a former Soldier in the Bundeswehr i´d say you are pretty spot on with your analysis. I may add that our Defence Minister had no clue about anything defense-related. So meh, let her say what she heard from someone who knew someone... In my Experience the G36 is fine and has been fine since it was adopted and was/is a huge step forward from the G3. Replacing it, again, is simply a stupid move and a huge waste of money.
das höre ich öfters, aber mir und meinen jungs hat das G36 garnicht gefallen. Kann es sein, dass die Gewehre unterschiedliche Güten in den Läufen hatten? Bei uns war es gang und gäbe, dass man auf 200m nichts mehr mit dem G36 treffen konnte, wenn es entweder sehr kalt war, oder sehr warm. Z.B. wenn man schon ein Magazin hinter sich hat, dann trifft man nichts mehr.
@@clapper3530 Sagen wir mal ich hatte kameraden die hätten das scheunentor nicht von innen getroffen ;) Die Umstellung kam kurz voe Ende meiner dienstzeit, ich konnte nur noch ein paar ausflüge zur schiessbahn damit machen. zur schützenschnur hat es gereicht und die Kameraden die noch einige jahre damit zu tun hatten waren alle zufrieden. Ob es tastächlich unterschiedliche qualitäten gab wage ich zu bezweifeln. Wir haben zwar als KRK-battalion, später EK, eine bevorzugte stellung bei der versorgung gehabt (erste Flecktarnträger, frühe umstellung auf G36) ich glaube aber nicht dass da waffenseitig irgendwas gedreht wurde.
"I may add that our Defence Minister had no clue about anything defense-related. " What she heard she likely heard from people who very much have a clue about defense-related issues within the ministry. Your adding that only shows that you have no clue about the role of a minister, do not understand managerial positions and have some serious problems with the very constitution you once promised to defend.
@@ohauss ministers can be really stubborn and unwilling to learn even though they have advisors and generals around them explaining. Not only that, even if they acknowledge, they often ignore those advice when in conflict with their worldview, fellow ministers and party members. Sorry, but from my observation, the German defence minister is just like my country's own defence minister. Absolute clowns.
One instructor at my basic training in the german army said to our group: "die Schwachstelle ist immer hinter der Waffe!" What translates to: the weak spot is behind the gun, in this case the shooter.
In computer support we call this PEBKAC - Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair. Perhaps we should say Problem Exists Between Butt-stock and Boot-soles.
That being said by a Bundeswehr instructor is tough...Pretty bad firing training and training quality and stuff...If the BW continues its "Bravo Level "Die Rekrutinnen" course",than even a G28 will deliver bad groups...
BrumBrumDasAuto an English version is: there's a problem with the seat-keyboard interface. You've also dispelled the myth that Germans don't have a sensevof humour that translates into a different language.
When this debacle started Lithuania put their G36 orders on pause, did their own tests on this issue, decided that issue does not exist and resumed ordering G36.
What about the neighbour Latvia, didn't even stop with the orders or did they? The country needed to replace the old (given free from US?) M16A1 in a hurry.
@@francislematt7079 im not have heard that there were orders to stop but those hk36 is replacing the swedish ak4 who are licensed copies of hk g3 not sure when it will be finished
Hi Ian, I served for 4 years in the BW, and if you ask me the much bigger problem is that most German soldiers can't hit shit with their rifles. In my entire time there I don't think I did more than 200 shots through it. I'm also a sport shooter so it wasn't much of a problem for me. If you ask me it's a training issue.
T Bear That’s a huge problem in any service. I’ve seen more troops than I care to name swear up and down the rifle was broken, when they were too drunk from the previous night to see the target.
Yes, I can confirm this. I am sport shooter too and I already had the experience with 5,56 sport rifles and I had no issues with G36. But the other soldiers can't hit shit but only cuz in the training in the first 3 months we get every time only 10 rounds to shoot 🙄.
that is 100% true. back when i had base training (january-march 2010) we went to the range like five times, there is no way anyone who isn't already a decent shooter gets good from that minute amount of practice. as for the accuracy ranging from super cold to hot: 2010 was the coldest winter in recent history in Germany and the entire training batallion did their tests on only two rifles (the rifles handed out to recruits for drills where not properly maintained or sighted in ever so they weren't used) and the two guys who started when the things where at ambient (around -15°C) did just as well as the last two guys, the groupings people got (which is what recruits where tested for, not where they hit on the target) didn't change at all, almost everyone passed and those who didn't, performed just as poorly with the MG-3 and even worse with the P-8 really the P-8 is the gun that should be investigated, it's so bad that the test considers completely missing the target one out of four times, adequate.
@@Rake3577 beeing rich has little to do with it. At times I thought they are afraid of every single bullet the give out to a soldier. So they limit it as much as possible.
That and that black things absorb more heat, so the switch to tan coloured polymer things is on the same level as me deciding not to wear black clothes in the summer, as a 5 year old.
Cool, but water is not wet. The adjective "wet" denotes something that's usually dry has water on it. If you spray water on water it does not change. You simply increase the volume of water. Water is not wet; it simply exists as itself.
I have been waiting for someone analytical and non biased to talk about this for so long. Here in Germany I have heard so much nonsense by people who dont know anything about guns regarding the G36. Thank you Ian!
Ich bin auch Deutscher. Wie oft hab ich mir schon von irgendwelchen Vollidioten die keine Ahnung von Waffen haben dumme Sprüche wie "hahahaha das Gewehr unserer Armee schiesst schief hahaha" anhören müssen.
@@annairinastoll2960 kenn ich deutsche haben generell oft viel Meinung bei wenig Ahnung allgemein find ich das konstante Bunderswehrbashing lächerlich vielleicht gibt es Probleme mit dem Zustand mancher Ausrüstung aber was erwarten die Leute wenn das Budget ständig beschnitten wird
@@annairinastoll2960 Naja, der Ladehebel (kp wie der deutsche Begriff dafür is ^^) ist mit mal abgebrochen. Also gewisse Probleme gibts mit dem Ding schon.
::: Previously, on Kraut Clashes ::: Germany (late 1980's): "Mein G3 rifle is sooo heavy. It is basically a giant heat sink, and we can't hit anything because of recoil. Aren't you guys done making us a new rifle yet?" HK (1989): "It took us two decades- but I think we have it figured out. May I present, the HK G11- a true 21st century rifle featuring caseless 4.7mm ammunition and a burst rate of fire above 2000 RPM. It will effectively double your hit probability over your G3 rif-" US: [Crashes through the wall like the kool-aid man] "Lemme see this Kraut space magic!" [Gunshots heard across Atlantic] US: "Hmmm- pretty cool rifle ya got there Hans- but I think we are gonna stick with the M16." HK: "...right, whatever dude. Anyways, as I was saying-" Germany: [Interrupts] "OMG so sorry, but me and my ex got back together and moved back in with each other and his credit score sucks sooo bad and he is in so much debt and we also bought a boat so- umm yeah we can't really buy this but keep up the good work and the rifle looks super cool k thnx bye" HK: "..what in the FU-" Germany: [Interrupts] "Mein G3 rifle is sooo heavy. We need a new gun to replace these old, heavy, steel G3 rifles. Is there nobody who can innovate and provide us a solution?" HK: "..well, you know we have the HK33/G41 model available, similar pattern to G3 but chambered instead in-" Germany: [Interrupts] "Ewwwww too old we want something new and cool" HK: [Says nothing, but looks around the room for hidden cameras to see if this is all some terrible decades-long prank for a TV show or something] Colt, Steyr, FN, Sig: "We have many proven rifle designs available for purchase. Please, step into my office-" Germany: "Ewwwww too old and expensive we want something new and cool. And German." HK (late 1990's): "It took us a few years, but we designed you your very own special rifle. It uses all modern materials but follows all proven design principles, and it meets all your specifications. Best of all, we went of our way to make it very lightweight since you sure complained about how heavy the G3 was and it is pretty cheap to manufacture so it should fit within your budget. Oh, and your welcome." Germany: "Yay! Thank you for-" US: [Crashes through wall like kool-aid man] "Hey, whatcha got there? That looks new and shiny, and we are thinking about replacing the M16 again (for the twelve thousandth time)-" HK: [Sighs loudly] "Here- just take it so we can get this over with and reaffirm your decision to keep the M16..." [A loud "yee-haw" is heard in the distance, followed by gunshots across the Atlantic] [Years go by] Civilians: "Whoa, kewl rifle dude, can we have a civilian version?" HK: "Fuck off." [More years go by] Civilians: "Can we just maybe have like- a couple of them? You can put a 16 inch barrel on it and all that, but can we please-" HK: "Fuck off." [More years go by] HK: "SL8" Civilians: "Fuck off." [Years go by] Germany [Circa a few years ago]: "Ewwww this super modern lightweight rifle that you designed specially for us with an exceptionally low price point is BROKEN. When our soldiers shoot them it gets too hot and is super inaccurate. What kind of cost cutting bullshit is this? I expect more out of German industry!" HK: "Well, we designed what you asked for and did it all within a pretty low budget to boot. You tested it, and it met all your specifications. Also, we did basically invest 3 decades of R&D into a rifle for you that you suddenly decided not to buy, soooo it's kinda hard to see how this is our fault..." Germany: "How DARE you! You will NEVER come to my birthday party again or make weapons for the German military!" Civilians: [to HK] "Oh, snap- can we get a civvy-version now bro?? Pretty plea-" HK: "Damnit civilian market- I told you already: fuck off. If we have time in the next few years, I will make you a civilian MP5 or something..." [A few years go by. HK has not been invited to Germany's birthday party even once since the controversy] Germany [circa now]: "Mein G36 is too melty and plastic and cheap. We need a new gun to replace these old, ineffective rifles. Is there nobody who can innovate and provide us a solution? It needs to have the same caliber and magazine capacity as our current rifle, but weigh no more than 4 pounds and be capable of sustained automatic fire for 16 straight hours without the barrel going above room temperature and have quarter MOA accuracy." Colt, Steyr, FN, Sig: [looking around at one another] "Ummm- yeah. Fuck that." HK: "Well Germany, you can take a look at our HK 416 rifle- it has more steel and aluminum in it too if that makes you feel better..." Germany: "Ohhhh so nice but ewwwww way too expensive! Can't you make us something just as good but for way cheaper?" HK: [sighs loudly] "That is not really how economics works but sure- we pretty much expected you would say something like that so here you go: HK 433. Knock yourself out." Germany: [skeptical] "Hmmm, alright we will take a look but I am still super mad at you for making me adhere to the laws of thermodynamics and I am sure some of these other firearms companies will put something forward for us to review and I can't WAIT to pick their rifle over yours out of spite and pettiness EVEN if the bias and negligence causes another small arms controversy ten years from now!" HK: "...whatever. Just please pay more atten-" Civilians: [Interrupting] "...now can we get a-" HK: "OMG please STOP nagging me about civilian-legal versions of our firearms! Don't you realize we have a reputation to uphold!? We can't be elitist and cool if every redneck in the US could buy our rifles! But you know what? Here! Take it! It's new- we call it the SP5. I am tired of this stupid sub-machine gun anyways! Been trying to get people to buy the UMP replacement for decades but they STILL want this damn model..." [Ranting trails off] [HK is still ranting to itself while looking for the hidden cameras that will reveal this has all been one long prank over the last half-century] [Civilians are still asking HK to export the G36 in a civilian version that is not utterly idiotic like the SL8] [HK is still promptly telling said civilians to fuck off] I spent WAY too much time writing all of this but it was too much fun and this is what happens when I re-watch old Forgotten Weapons videos during the COVID-19 lockdown!
Man, this is epic, I read the whole thing. It reads like a script, if you had a couple of grand laying around and knew some out of work animators this could be an amazing animated short 👍
Headline: "Bundeswehr and German defence minister outraged Heckler and Koch hasn't been able to overcome physics for rifle. Adopts new H&K rifle anyway."
Well considering how inept our two last minister of defense are, it's not suprising that they seek to defy physics in their specifications. And then they will adopt HK anyways, because sucking the dick of car manufacturers and weapons manufacturers is only natural to the CDU.
@@alexhannah8889 the german defense minister is just a a part of the picture though. most of the real influence is held by the Wehrbeauftragter des Deutschen Bundestags ( military commissioner of the Bundestag) and the Generalinspekteur der Bundeswehr (Inspector General = highest ranking soldier) and the Verteidigungsausschuss (defense committee)
@@I31R0 Aaand the last three Verteidigungsminister we're all right Rohrkrepierer (Barrel bursters)..........we got a Liar (who cheated on his PhD), an obtuse idiot (who thought deines need No TICAS), and finally the clueless one (a former Family Minister who thought that a Military could be a Family friendly employer.)! Das BmVg always Eclipse them MOD when it comes to Sheet unadulterated stupidity!
As a former journalist from the times "before the Internet", I'm never ceased to be amazed by the in-depth research done you content creators like Ian that belongs in mainstream media, but sadly, today "media workers" don't put near enough effort to do it as it should be done. Therefore it is the content creators that become the primary source of objectively researched information instead of the regular "news". Well done!
It's not usually about effort but time - at least what comes to newspapers and such. Most online publications rely heavily on ads, and in order to get clicks they have to publish the news as quickly as possible, or otherwise people will read them elsewhere. The workers don't have enough time to do proper journalism. Not only that, but decreasing print sales and subscriptions rates lead to a situation it's not worthwhile to hire workers who could do investigative journalism or otherwise cover subjects in-depth, because most of the time clickbait journalism, made-up controversies and speed equal more profit than quality and reliability.
@@tiihtu2507 I wholeheartedly agree! The internet for all it's good sides is the worst enemy of well informed journalism. Just look at the amount the NY Times, or other big newspapers lost in ad revenue. The revenue they gained from their online publications is only a quarter of what they lost in print advertisements and subscriptions.
Part of Ian's charm, is not just the effort he puts in, but rather the very broad and deep knowledge of the subject area, and the obvious passion he has for his topic. When you have EXPERT level knowledge, it is easier to understand and provide the analysis on technical, complex and sometimes fraught issues dispassionately, and Ian simply ticks all the boxes.
having worked with news reporters, personally written news articles worked with news cameramen and run for elected office. i have engaged with the press, I've seen how the sausage is made. And mostly how is made is some guy takes a half hour to get a vague impression of the idea and is the first to publish, and all the other sources regardless of format just copy the angle of that first guy. The guy who rushed it and didn't do any homework. The guy who didn't take the time to play back the interview recording to get quotes correct. Accuracy is not the primary priority. Publishing before the next interval is. If forced you can always print a retraction later. But the news sources are not paying for the hours it would take to do real investigation anyway. the guys who make any pretense of having journalistic integrity don't take the time to do research they just put in hedge words. "Some are concerned that... "
"the old Media" is shrinking and less and less Funds for Research are available. No Journalist works for free (except few Idealists). On RUclips and other New Media platforms spezialists talk directly and no Funds for Research are needed.
And if they are out for your scalp, being nice is going to really help won't it? This isn't about convincing people who are honestly mistaken. This is about people who have an agenda and do NOT care if you are right. When you are nice to people like that, all you are doing is inviting them to do more against you. After all, there was no consequences in doing so. You were even "nice" to them, so why stop.
I am a German Sergeant Major, and a Shooting Instructor. I never ever had any accuracy problems with the G36, even if I used it the whole day and shot more than 500 rounds a day. But when you try to make a light machine gun out of it, it sure will get really hot and then, like every other rifle, the accuracy decreases. The G36 ist a very good, reliable and accurate rifle. Don't listen to what the former MoD was complaining about that rifle, she never shot it and she's got some personal issues with HK.
She was obviously a diversity hire inflicted on the German armed forces by their internal opponents. What other damage did she do? The German army of today is not the Bundeswehr of the early Cold War (who were a joy to serve beside when I was stationed at Sembach).
@@5minutemovies977 I would love to see Germany using good ARs but literally every AR platform in the running scraps the best thing about an AR: the DI gas system and only keeps the second best thing about the AR So really I want them to keep using G36 because anything they replace it with will be stupid.
This all sounds just like what US troops said about the M16 when it was adopted, and even today. In my day (late 1980's) troops and Marines could be heard saying that the M16 is an inaccurate rattle trap, is ineffective, and malfunctions all the time. Some things never change. Troops trash talk their weapons... always have, always will. It was good seeing you at SHOT.
Military Arms Channel Yep. Was US Army Infantry at the time. Now the A1s in service at that time were rattle traps. Just due to their age. The A2s we were issued 6 months after I got to my first unit were new solid rifles. While I did have reliability issues with both my A1 and A2s they were all pretty much related to those freaking wore out magazines that looked like they had been used during the TET offensive we were issued at the time.
No, not really. The debate here is between politicians. The german troops actually like the G36. But the M16 was an ineffective, inaccurate, malfunctioning piece of shit when they first got it. Ian even has a video about it on this channel, where he interviews one of the designers, who basically says that the specs were changed between prototype and mass production in such a way that it landed somewhere between sabotage and high treason. And that the gun was fixed in the A1 version, which basically reverted to the original blueprints.
@@lapinrigolo Because they are 20 years old? Because they want optics or other changes that weren't standard when it was first adopted? Reworking isn't the same as replacing. Or is the M16 bad since the US Marine Corps decided to go with M4 as their new standard main armament?
...Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Given that H&K, in their infinite wisdom, decided to put a polymer trunnion in the rifle... I dunno. Heat transfer is a thing. Polymer can lose structural rigidity far faster than aluminum or steel when heated. Doesn't sound like a very wise design choice for a standard issue assault rifle that is going to see decades of service and high round counts.
"I'm gonna get flack from all sides for this." Yeah, but whether or not it sticks is going to depend on if the grouping of a Flugabwehrkanone changes significantly as it gets hot...
Hello. I am an engineer with 15 years of experience and I am pleased to say that in my humble opinion you belong to a small group of extremely competent people, and your understanding and explanation of this and other issues related to weapons is absolutely perfect. It is very pleasant to watch your program.
As someone who served 2010 in the Luftwaffe, having the G36 as service rifle, let me comment a few things: There have been indeed issues with accuracy, long before the real controversy that has really made it into the public. The Bundeswehr had an internal study about this and found that these accuracy problems were caused by a certain type of ammo. As a result, this ammo was not used anymore and these accuracy problems vanished. The video correctly points out that this controversy basically was made up for political reasons, probably or most likely (as many would say) for lobbyism reasons. This is heavily supported by a testing study that was initiated later on, containing about 300 pages (if I remember right) that concluded that the G36 was indeed having these accuracy problems. The problem with these study is though, every soldier who has gone through basic training would know how useless these results are after having been told the test parameters: The accuracy was tested after and ridiculous amount of shots in full auto, so basically a way of using the gun that reminded much more of a intense machine gun fire than the way how a rifle is intended to be used, which of course is basic knowledge for every soldier. So everyone who has just the most basic knowlegde about how to use a rifle in combat must come to the conclusion that these study was basically made to produce earlier planned results. This was certainly confirmed by a lot of soldiers, starting at the sergeants up to higher officer ranks. The controversy is simply an agenda to justify a new service rifle, which is not a popular political demand in leftist Germany, nothing else. Let me add that I personally asked old comrades, some of them have been deployed in Afghanistan, about this controversy, of course the answer was not surprising at all: "It is bullshit, made up, etc.". Also there are other countries than Germany that use the G36 as a service rifle, as well some Armies/Militias in the middle-east lately, and they were completely happy about the new rifle. My personal opinion is, the G36 is a decent service rifle. Probably not the best, certainly not the worst. I simply loved the combined scope with red dot integrated into the gun as well as the possibility to fold the buttstock. I should add though that the 5,56 x 45 mm NATO was never really loved in the Bundeswehr, especially when speaking to older soldier who started with the HK G3 as service rifle. They always praised the power of 7,62 x 51 NATO.
I'd say the G36 is one of the best service rifles for a conscript army, like the bundeswehr was it's easy to clean, easy to operate, easy to shoot and pretty durable while also being light
In the early 80s as a conscript we had AK4 = G3. The army had all these test for us to get "certified", one was hitting 5 rounds within 20cm/8inch at 200 m, we had an sportsshooter using swedish mauser 96 in competiton, he alwas got about 10cm or below. The only way to get him to miss the center, was to distract him and turn the sight to 500 meters, still same group but on a whole different place, it only worked 2 times, after that he always checked his sight settings. The G3 was heavy, bulky and always in the wrong place, as an artillery crew, it always come down and hit You in the back of your head. Later on they changed the rules, we may set the rifle away but no longer than it was within easy reach. In combat i would rather carry 2 pounds more, but be able to shoot at the enemy at longer distances or throug some tiny fur trees. And you only had one caliber to handle the same as on our mg ksp58. Heavy clumsy but easy to shoot.
The most hilarious thing about the controversy is, if HK actually gets to replace the G36 with a new model, all those who tried to damage HK effectively just rewarded the company with another major contract. Otherwise the G36 would stay in use for more than just a couple of years Well done :D
Oh actually the G36 is already overdue for replacement. I thought the planned usage should have ended 2015. Edith 2016 it should have replaced after 20 Years.
It may be worth observing that in the closing years of WW2, all German vehicles left the factory "dunkelgelb", basically desert yellow. It made a good base color on top of which you could put additional disruptive colors to mesh with anywhere the Germans were going to fight (i.e. Italy, Eastern Front, or France)
The new color on the gun is mainly because it doesn't let the gun heat up that much/fast as the black color. I think we can't really compare tanks with guns in case of field made camo patterns. You probably cant damage much by just painting over a steel plate, but you would be butt fucked the moment some paint goes into the action of the gun. Cleaning it up will be a pain and just imaging you freahly painted it, you get a attacked and now you will have a significant emotional event while no rounds are coming out the barrel and the enemy is coming near you.
@@Tankliker Black colour means it doesnt heat up as fast from the sun (light absorption), i dont think that is a point. The gun heats up 100x more from being fired. In that case black is a benefit as it allows heat to dissipate to the environment faster than light colours. But in the end this effect is minimal so heat has nothing to do with colour choice
@@northernsupernova1 you know, yes, the barrel heats up from shooting, but name me a gun where the grips heats up from shooting. And also, it is scientifically proven that black objects don't reflect light as good as other colors and therefor heat up more. Also, what use has it when your whole gun becomes hot just by letting it lay in the sun and if you ever stepped on a stone on a hot day, or gripped something made from metal you know very well that touching it can be very unpleasant and could cause burns if it's hot enough
I agree the M14 was replace because of Political stuff. It is a good gun. Which is why it has been brought back using light weight modern gun design. The L85 how ever was a PoS and needed to be replace.
@@doomblackdragon the m14 is a decent gun, but compared to other designs at the time (mainly the FAL) it doesnt hold up too well. The only reson the m14 was brought back is because you didnt have any other dmr rifle at the time..
Our Minister of defense at the Time the "scandal" happend was notorious for having no idea about millitary issues (She used to be minister for labour and social affairs and has never served). Her involvement in the whole affair might explain why everything went like it did...
Except, of course, that completely misses the role of a minister, forgets that the procurement problems of the Bundeswehr are much older and is just good old Prussian dreams of having a military which owns the state rather than vice versa.
@Plantman Whoreticulture is there any need for the casual sexism considering how many fucking terrible military decisions/decisions in general have been made by male politicians?
I was on rifle team in high school, and one day, one of the shooters was having a bad day shooting wise, and saying he can’t get the rifle sighted in. The Coach, a Lt Colonel in the US Army, sighs, takes the rifle, assumes a good standing position, and gets a perfect bullseye, it was amazing, and he hands it back to the shooter, and says “I just wanted to make sure it was you and not the rifle” and let us continue with practice
@@andreewert6576 Now I'll give you a true story. A private in winter infantry training, accompanies the Platoon Warrant back to the MRE cache, only to discover a mess of scattered packets with the tell-tale beak marks of ravens. The Warrant sent me to get my rifle, and when I got back he unscrewed the BFA and pulled some live rds out of his pocket. Loaded a rd in 'my' rifle, and without any zero just aimed at one of the ravens near the top of the fir tree and standing up let off a shot. We watched the bird spiral down through the limbs, into the snow. He told me to go get it, so I did and brought it over. Had a hole right in it's eye, it was amazing. It's hard to estimate distance quickly looking upwards, I'm thinking 30-40 meters. Tree size is no problem up there (Oh yeah, this is in Canada.). I buried the bird under some snow and brushed away any blood stains. He said keep this to yourself, other than my best friend I did. The shot was too cool not to share with someone, not like him and I would ever recollect the moment, besides I'm sure he had more amazing things to remember.
Allegedly, the Spanish Army *DID* make a pretty serious test to their G36s after the whole thing went ballistic in Germany, and found their (local manufacture of the specific E variants, but still same design in what regards to what theoretically causes the issue) rifles perfectly good. I can't find any link to the actual tests at all - but this was widely reported in the spanish media back when the topic was hot stuff. Maybe if someone with the proper connections to the spanish ministry of defence could take a look at the actual test reports - what's me I can't even find anything official, other than the statements from the ministry of defence and the media coverage of the topic. I've also got familiars and friends in the Spanish Army too and they all say the whole "cant hit when hot" thing is bull. Not that the dispersion doesn't increase, but that it doesn't more than with other rifles, and probably does so less. In general, they hold the G36E in very high regard and have little complain about it (though that's the people I know, I've seen complains about them being a bit fragile from people in the internetz...but the people I know personally, all speak highly of the rifle).
@@Betterhose an SF in Malaysia here simply said they checked it out and found nothing wrong. Malaysia is fuckin hot mind you. Just another day in German politics.
you are absolutelly right, my dad has been in the army his whole life(he is retiring this year) and both he and me have shot the g36, well several of them in fact and its 100% a 1moa rifle, i was told that each rifle costs about 500€ to produce and get issued in our army. I bet no other rifle is capable of that. btw ill try to ask and see if i can check the results of those tests, they might have been published in the defence ministry newsletter, but I think its ilegal for us to bring out that kind of info, anyway I'll try.
The Spanish probably use different ammunition than the Germans :) www.heckler-koch.com/de/presse/detail/article/bundesrechnungshof-agiert-rufschaedigend.html
"Sometimes, even when you're right, you need to be polite to convince the other people that you're right." Or, as The Dude put it, "You're not wrong, you're just an asshole."
Ian, congratulations on this one. This video is one of the most accurate, precise description of the situation at hand I have ever come across. You manage to pinpoint all the fundamental issues that are floating around in this case in less than 20 minutes. Also, one of the things that I asked myself when I learned about the trial for the new standard rifle: why would any company participate in a trial when they see what happened to HK? It just gives the impression that the MoD here in Germany is not a reliable business partner when it comes to long-term contracts. Especially, when they do not even lift a finger to figure out what the actual problem is.
The reason might be that you earn hundreds of million…certainly the chance to be blamed by the Germany’s MoD of doing sowing wrong (they do this to cover their mistakes) is high but it’s highly profitable
I was in the Bundeswehr at the time of the controversy, in a unit that was seeing deployment in Afghanistan. Every single soldier that I talked to was saying that it's politics and that the rifle is fine, and at the time this was also carried to the press. And german troops are trained appropriately. Also the german civilian public is very unapproving of any form of armed conflict and will jump at anything to have a go at a weapons manufacturer in the country and/or the armed forces, which might go some way to explain why H&K is a bit bad in support (in a civilian setting this is basically irrelevant in Germany) and why politics will try to look good by bad mouthing a decent system.
You nailed it. Segment of German society and politics that is, Anti-military, Anti- conflict, Anti- NATO, Anti-Joining America in war. The G36 was just the football they used to score. Like being anti-war, and calling in a bomb threat to the air tower to stop a C-130 from airlifting troops on a Tuesday.
At the time, I was just reading about the controversy in the press, and it felt to me like a concerted campaign against H&K. Even though back in the day I knew nothing about either side of the story, there was article after article picking on H&k and making it into a "scandal" in all papers.
Sucks to be German. Here in the states we shame gun manufacturers for supporting legislation that makes it harder fir their competition to compete. Cough cough Springfield.
i read that the rifle was said to lose zero after 150 rounds at full auto (5mags) in a row... i mean... WOW... who coud have guessed the rifle is AWSOME to shoot and handle btw (german here)
@@Blei1986 The Bundeswehr rifle doctrine really doesn't support mag dumping. And it's enforced in the harshest of ways as you, potentially, have to account for every round that you don't return to base with in your after-action report. Honestly the weapons-system is showing it's age, just in other ways. The optics, although totally workable, would benefit from an update, the sight pictures are pretty small, and the lack of a standardized modular attachment system isn't optimal. These issues could be solved with a refit though.
That's a neat idea, but you would probably need a few different ARs. The difference in barrels (which will probably have the biggest impact on the result, even before the G36 trunnion and receiver) is just too big within the AR market. That said, I would expect the G36 to do quite well, just as Ian alluded to. The H&K cold hammer forged barrels have an excellent reputation for accuracy. And as the owner of an H&K MR223A3 (EU version of the MR556 in CIP spec .223, which is basically identical to 5.56x45 NATO, so as close to an HK416 as you can get as a civilian here) I can anecdotally confirm this. That thing shoots great (far better than I can shoot), even after dumping two or three dozen rounds in a brisk semi auto pace. Which is not quite the same as dumping mag after mag with the fun switch, but as far as practical usage goes, probably more realistic. Even for the full auto HK416, it's not a personal machine gun after all.
4:25 My understanding was that troops with M1 carbines were firing at Chinese solders at 500 yards. The M1 Carbine sight only goes to 300 yards. So they were expending all their ammunition and never hitting anything. Then when the Chinese DID close to within 100-200 yards, they were all out of ammunition. Meanwhile, the troops next to them with M1 Garands were making those 500 yard shots, because that's something a 30-06 can do. It was a training problem, from my understanding.
I suspect you could be right. I have the stories from the friend of a friend who is the grandson of a Veteran that the bullets wont go through a padded coat. Watch Paul Harrell's video on the M1. 110 gr Remington Green and White box round nose bullet. 4 of them through the meat target and all 50 layers of fleece. He was unable to show the bullets. If somebody still believes the BS ask them to go stand in front of an M1 carbine at 100 meters wearing a heavy padded coat.
A while back somebody did some experimentation with Korean era Carbine ammo and found that it didn't tolerate the cold very well at all. IIRC they got around 900fps when the stuff was frozen to 0F or thereabouts so if that indeed was happening back during the hostilities then it makes sense that the little 110 grain pill could have trouble penetrating thick layers of coat. The poor unfortunates who fought that war under the most miserable conditions shouldn't be dismissed as liars just because we have trouble replicating their experiences.
@@recoilrob324 It would still wound you quite badly but it would be a less likey to be insistently incapacitating. Hollywood and good hunting pratice give us the idea that gunshots are instant stoppers when there often not.
I have seen documentaries on American Hero Channel ( AHC ) where the veterans themselves have said that I recommend anybody and everybody to call their provider and get that channel really really good like the history channel used to be
@@recoilrob324 given that the problem was only reported very specifically in Korea rather than in WWII should give one pause. Plus a velocity of only 900 f/s is within the range of a M1911. Was there complaints of that gun having the same issue? Even if we assume that the test conditions in said nameless video are indeed accurate, they fail to answer some simple observations. No one is saying that Korean solders were lying. It's much more likely that they over judged their abilities or didn't see some critical action as they were being shot at and under high levels of stress. Your word choices suggest that your much too emotionally involved with trying to vindicate something that happened 70 years ago than to think clearly about it.
to shoot perfectly straight, you have to adjust the optics correctly, and train your muscle memory a lot, so that you always pick it up the same way, and you have to know your natural body movement in different body states, and some calmness in mind and in breath. then you can shoot perfectly straight until a distance where wind and gravity becomes a factor. and then it gets so much more complicated, that only skilled shooters can handle it consistently. greetings from someone who is pretty decent with gun aim.
@@certaindeath7776 Dude what... Do you want to feel special so you are pretending that shooting is harder than it is? My sister and mom can both shoot "perfectly straight" and didn't "train their muscle memory a lot" In fact, neither of them even own their own guns. It's really not hard at all, teach them proper grip, proper stance, and watch them be able to shoot groups smaller than most people at the range. That being said, most people at the range never even move the target further out than what you can accurately point shoot at.
This video is a perfect example of the stretch of Ian's knowledge, I love how whenever he doesn't know something he simply states he doesn't know something he doesn't bullshit with you, or let personal opinion judge how he states a fact
Smart people tell you when they don't know something...that's one thing I learned from talking to PhDs; if they don't know the answer to a question, they admit their ignorance, tell you where to look it up, or tell you who to ask. Idiots, on the other hand, will pretend to be experts in order to look good in the moment, and they'll be angry with you if you ask any specific questions. Unfortunately, most of us are surrounded by idiots.............
OMG. Despite the knowledge being laid down, I was thinking the same thing- why can't more people communicate with his balance? He breaks down both sides of the issue. Reasonably. That is tough to do (apparently)
I was part of the program for new rifle selection for the Portuguese army back in 2012 and i can tell you, we put the G36 trough the wringer. You name it, we did it. Hot,cold,mud,sand, nothing would make it jam, changed sight pictured , or shifted aim up to 300meters (except extreme gunking) and it was the the selected rifle as winner for the tender. But the people at IWI were not too happy with the result and sued the Portuguese state for benefitting H&K. And it was annuled. We now have finnaly the FN SCAR L as the main infantry rifle. But the G36 has no problem whatsoever, this "hot and misses" claim was labeled as bull from day 1.
@jeanluc305 It is, i havent gotten my hands on mine yet! Still waiting to be issued one. But it was ridicolous that because IWI threw a fit we had to wait another 7 years and go through the NSPA to finally replace the G3. The Tavor isnt a bad rifle, but bullpup isnt what we wanted, its great for CQB, but lacks in medium and long range.
You have made very many good points, thanks! As a former soldier: the H&K G36 is a great weapon. You are right with the distances. They have changed because of scopes. There are not many training days on higher range - so soldiers are mostly not well trained on higher distance. Another reason many soldiers have a bad accuracy is that they treat their weapons like it would be the enemy. And that approach leads to poorly results in aiming/hitting.
There was this one day here in Brazil, I was rehearsing with my band, the place was raided by the police and federal agents, I didn't ask anything about it. Once I was cleared, an officer stayed with the "cleared people," he was carrying a G36C, I was aware of this issue, tried asking him about it, he was impressively forthcoming, he said "if this was true, do you think armed forces and police would keep this gun?" and that pretty much settled it for me...
While the g36 is a perfectly serviceable you can't rely on the fact that the military and police are issued a particular gun to tell you whether or not it's any good. Politicians and accountants buy issued guns not firearms experts.
Onde era esse estúdio pra PF invadir, rapaz? De qualquer forma, a opinião dos bobalhões da PF que mal dão tiros não conta muito, apesar do argumento dele ter sido coerente.
@@paulmaartin Most of them use their personal side arm, but yes, they are issued with that shitty pistol, my father used a Beretta M9, which he bought, and which is mine now...
HK customer service is just old school German. Customer: "Hey, I think I've got an issue an-" HK "Their is no issue, if there is an issue then you are at fault, go avay and read the manual!" Customer: "I get that might be the case but I just wanna che-" HK "GO AVAY!!"
10:35 For anyone who aren't that familiar with english, I'm sure Ian is saying "Media Furor" (aka "furore" in Commonwealth english). Furor derives from the term "fury" and has nothing to do with the German term everyone is thinking of.
@FREN thx, I had a VERY old dictionary source for "furour". PS: I use a mix of american and commonwealth spellings when it suits me, "color" seems so wrong compared to "colour" but prefer "maneuver" to the clumsy "manoeuvre".
I served 14 years from 1990 til 2004 in Germany's Armed forces and I went to war with the G36. I served with the G3 and I loved its power, precision and reliability. The same qualities the G36 showed to me without fail. Can it break? sure but so could the G3 if you handle your rifle without care and no respect any rifle will fail, even an AK47. The G36 is, in my opinion, one of the top rifles out there. I have used it in training as well as in anger and was always very satisfied with the performance except for one thing, the penetrating power of its ammunition. The G3 with the 7,62*51 was and is much superior to the flimsy 5,56 but the increase in carried ammunition is a good argument for the change.
You don't really need that power for the standard infantry, though. 5.56 is not flimsy, it's extremely accurate up to long ranges and unlike 7.62 NATO, is extremely controllable in full auto fire in assault rifles. 7.62 NATO is a battle rifle cartridge better suited for long range engagements/suppression from an GPMG or Sniper rifle, not the close to medium ranges. A 5.56 bullet with a hardened steel core will zip through much of the modern bullet resistant vests of today and deal serious damage especially with its extreme accuracy modern military doctrine to aim at the upper chest which is not only the broadest part of the body, but also a part of the body that has many vital organs such as the lungs and heart. From close to medium range, 5.56 is vastly superior to 7.62 NATO in performance, it's has much lighter recoil which combined with how accurate the round is means it very easy to fire accurately in full auto which can't be said for 7.62 NATO rifles. Even in semi-auto, the lesser recoil means that follow up shots will be more accurate with 5.56 rifles than 7.62 Nato. If you had to shot a small target 16 times in 10 seconds, you'd accomplish that task far faster with the 5.56 rifle because the lesser recoil of the 5.56 rifle compared to a 7.62 NATO rifle would disrupt your aim less meaning that you could make more accurate follow up shots. Just look at how well the 5.56 AR-180/AR-18 of the Irish terrorists performed against the 7.62 NATO. The more controllable AR-18 meant the IRA could attack the British army with a volume of accurate rapid fire while the British soldiers could only fire back with slower semi-auto fire. The gas system of the AR-18 is the basis for the not only the SA-80 which replaced the SLR/ the British model of the FN FAL, it's also the gas system of the G36 which replaced the G3. This is the reason why 5.56 rifles have replaced 7.62 rifles in combat. 5.56 has such low recoil that shooting accurately in full auto is very easy which enabled your average infantryman to have access to full auto fire and even in the semi-automatic firing mode, keeping your shots on target is much easier with a 5.56 rifle because of the lower recoil. It's not just about how much ammunition you can carry, the lower recoil, but relatively high accuracy and range of the 5.56 means you have a cartridge that can provide accurate suppressive fire on target in both full auto and semi-auto which makes more lethality on the battlefield as your enemies are better suppressed because more shots are near them or they are dead because better accuracy means a higher chance of hitting them in vital areas.
I've always found strange only Germany reported this issue with the G 36, while other users of the same rifle who had been engaged in the same hot environments (Spain, Lithuania, Kurdish Pershmerga Fighters in Iraq) never mentioned this problem and had no intentions to replace the rifle.
None of those countries have had G36s as long or in the numbers were talking about compared to Germany, too. Notice how we went through two world wars without an issue with the BAR and it wasn't until Korea and Vietnam where we were putting a lot of ammunition through them. Talk to an armorer that worked with BARs in WWII and one in Korea and Vietnam and the you'll think the guy from WWII service was working on a different firearm. Circumstances matter. Time matters. These are machines, and the stresses and use of them impacts performance differently.
@@matchesburn you are absolutely right. but if u look into the original specifications for the G36 u can see that HK delivered. you cant sue them because there is need for other specifications in modern warzones now. the real problem here was that the reported shift in precision was after prolonged fighting in afghanistan where the G36 was used to lay suppressive fire. now if you do that with an AR it will damage the rifle, thats why LMGs were developed in the first place right? - the problem with that was (and still is) that german MOD did not adopt the MG36 and did not buy an adequate LMG to use on squad level. the MG3 is too heavy and so barely used in that case. again - not HKs fault the ARs are misused because the Bundeswehr has not been properly equipped. all of that is easy to gather info, but the media just posted headlines instead of actually asking the soldiers who work with the rifle day by day. wich makes this "controversy" even more ironic imo.
@@janeymers7154 Not that "machinegun-BS again! How could anyone lay down suppressive fire,if he/she has only 200 rds???? Second.It was "determind",that "faulty"MEN ammo,"allegedly" out of army specs,was to blame!
@@pebo8306 namely it was the "Karfreitagsgefecht" in Afghanistan. The main force in battle were 34 german soldiers, who fought from 1300 local till 2100 local when they were relieved by a reserve company. during the course of the battle 25000 rounds were fired. keep in mind they were probably in LUVs(Dingo) and had plenty of spare ammo. these werent special forces on a week long mission but a fully equipped patrol, so they definitely had more then 200 rounds per soldier with them. also i cant understand your last sentence.
@@janeymers7154 I'm pretty sure you guys are way better informed about the military activities, than the political environment that surrounded the g36 debacle. To sum it up the military budget in germany was criticized for putting billions on suspect external advisors and bad developed or impractical projects instead of stocking up armory and equipment like 3 months before the complaints over the g36 where published. The conclusion that someone had "a bone to pick" with H&K is possible but the imo more probable assumption is that the media wanted to confirm that the Bundeswehr is ill equipped, while big companies and external advisors make money out of it.
The G36 was simply not meant to "dump one or two mags". When I was drafted in the Bundeswehr in January of 2002, the G36 was still being intruduced into armories, as a replacement to the G3, for two reasons: First of all, NATO changed calibre to 5.56, so in order to be able to swap ammo between troops, we needed to ditch the 7.62 calibre, and second the function of the Bundeswehr had changed from "stop the Russian long enough for America to intervene" to "help other nations stabilize". The G36 was meant to be fired slow, precise, and tacticly by the soldier, all our training was designed for exactly that. The fact that this rifle on full auto would become less accurate was known and communicated throughout the whole basic weapons training. We never actually were trained on full auto, because we wouldn't be able to hit anything anyways. In full auto, you can use the G36 to clear a room in close quaters, but for anything else it was "Single Shot ONLY". And even though we had little training, I (being near sighted) managed to hit bullseye on 100 yards w/o glasses, and could paint a smile on the target at 200 yards with glasses, and at least score high on 500 yards even though my scope was meant for 200 yards. The Rifle itself is great, but it's not meant for longer or heavier engagements.
I think your second point is the most important one in this whole debate. The requirements for the G36 were based on a future conflict in middle/western europe, not central asia or sub-sahran africa. Also, as you said, for a more "traditional" conventional kind of warfare, not the kind of asymetrical war it is/was used in during the last 20 years. When I was trained as a Panzergrenadier we would use the full auto function of the G3 only during "Sturmabwehrschießen" (when the hypothetical human waves of soviet soldiers rush our lines). In a modern war, without clear font lines or areas of engagement ,it is much more likely that a soldier will need to use full auto, in order to break out of a sudden ambush and regroup/form a defensiv line. Not to break up an assault, but to force the enemy to take cover.
I've been a conscript in the Bundedwehr in 2002 and was trained on the G36. The only tactical maneuver that that included full auto fire we were trained on was the "Feuerüberfall" de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feuer%C3%BCberfall It would be used in a defensive position when confronted with a stronger attacking force. The goal of this tactic was to hold fire, assign targets, and then on command open full auto in short distance all at once to force the enemy into cover without revealing all of our positions. The G36 was a very good rifle that I was very confident hitting targets at all intended ranges with. The combined red dot 1x and 3x optics in the hands of every service man was a huge advantage over competing basic service rifles of the time that would use iron sights, 1,5x optics and where not everyone would be issued additional optics mounted on the rifles.
Both the Spanish and the Lithuanian militaries have tested their rifles again after the scandal, they both found that their rifles have no problems. The Lithuanians ordered more rifles after their test. The Spanish report concluded that IF something is wrong with the rifle, it's due to the pencil barrel on the German G36 version. The Spanish military uses a heavier barrel, similar to the MG36. The findings of the report were published on a Spanish language website, but I can't find it now. Maybe someone who can speak Spanish can google for it.
When I started my military service in the Bundeswehr in 2000 I wasn‘t convinced first about the G 36 since I had the G 3 first. But I learned that the G 36 is a reliable and great assault rifle. In my mind it was a political decision because the way it was tested to heat it up would produce fails on every gun. To me it is a reliable and accurate gun which I don‘t want to miss. Best wishes to our Weapons Jesus and thank you for your videos. :)
R6Mute Main Assault rifles are a type of automatic rifle, with very clear requirements to be considered one. Our media, the U.S.’s, just tends to use that term with weapons that aren’t actually assault rifles.
Than I guess we should start adding "assault" before every weapons name that is used to do harm then? 😁 Stop spreading US propaganda. Just call it a darn rifle.
@@ChiTownGuerrilla Clearly you do not know the history of the term or its definition, nor do you understand that the "assault" in the name comes from the military definition of the term, not a legal one.
it's when you begin watching a youtube channel you can absolutely not relate to, you found an extremely good youtuber. I'm not a gun nut. i don't own one. I probably never will. Still i find your insights extremely informative and well presented. Thanks you Ian.
Go fire one, if you are sensible and safe, clay shooting is fun, not into hunting myself as I don't need to hunt to eat and our wildlife has enough survival challenges. Plus it's not really controlled well enough.
@@MrLTW2009 Sadly, there's weirdos on both sides of that question. Sold my one's quite a few years ago, but I'm only a little bit weird - I put tomato sauce on my macaroni cheese and my sister has words.
I knew some Kurds who used the g36 in their fight against isis and they love the gun. They never complained about accuracy and they’re in the heat shooting well over 200 yards usually.
Harrison Rawlinson on the first day, the bolt handle is raised. On the second day, the bolt is racked and gun Jesus is chambered. On the third day, the bolt handle is lowered and gun Jesus is fired into the world
Someone who is nicknamed Gun Jesus. Someone who can call up the French anti terror unit (Who don't speak to anyone. And especially not if they aren't French) and say "I'm the guy who wrote the most impressive book on French military rifles ever... can I come fondle your signature guns for a bit in front of a camera?".. and get a yes! Someone who can get access to every "by appointment only" private armament collection in the world. Someone who gets a personal invitation by Knights Armament to come "do a 100 round mag dump" on their new LMG... Someone who is so stupidly recognized for his knowledge that a company like H&K, who has the PR training of a potato, runs with his nickname and post a Gun Jesus poster on their Insta. Yeah... let's threaten him and call him stupid!
Karl at InRange has done a few videos on the G36 since this one came out and initially found that he couldn't replicate an unacceptable loss of accuracy in a hot gun. But while shooting one in a competition with an original Hensoldt optic ( ruclips.net/video/9J0psXVo5Uo/видео.html ) he found that the polymer where the optic mounted became quite flexible, being bendable out of position using just his hand. He has provisionally concluded that the accuracy problems are with the optic mounting system, not the barrel/receiver interface.
Makes a lot more sense than blaming the plastic on bending the barrel? . It just needs a little upgrade on the critical structure places and make it heavyer, hey. But Knowing our Ministry adding a new sling for it would even take 10 years
You’re like the Bob Ross of guns, I love watching your videos Ian you’re always so down to earth, opinion free and positive. You seem like such a cool dude. Cheers from Australia
Genau das selbe hab ich mir auch gedacht. Ich war allerdings nur Grundwehrdienstleistender. Könnte mir vorstellen, dass die Soldaten die in den Auslandseinsatz gehen in ihrer Vorbereitung da etwas besser geschult werden als das bei mir der Fall gewesen ist.
FWIW, regarding the "overheating in combat" hypothesis, the firearm blog did a torture test on a G36. Ever after firing an ungodly amount of rounds, they did not find ANY loss in accuracy or POI shift. So there's that.
The group size will change a bit. I see it all the time, I do these tests for a living. I think the German government just wanted a new gun, so they took an already known fact and pretended it was an actual issue.
First off: I don't think that there is/was a problem with the G36. But regarding that test: a test based on one sample isn't really accurate. Do it with at least 100 (better 1000) rifles fresh from the factory and then you could make an accurate study. I know this wouldn't be possible for any youtuber but I just wanted to point out that just because one is fine, doesn't mean that there is no problem.
@@Kremit_the_Forg a change in group size with a hot gun is not only expected but a well known aspect. Like I said, I do this at work with many different types of guns. The M4 has a hell of a tolerance shift with a hot gun, the ultimate issue is that people failed to realize that at a longer distance the small shift is multiplied. Germany wanted a new gun, more akin to that used by other nato countries and this slight change was the justification they needed. They also never mention if it's the short barrels that are being used in the situations they're talking about. The G36 has performed exceptionally well throughout its service life, and instead of saying yes we want a different gun they invented a problem.
@@herbertloper2863 I fully agree with you, but my point wasn't about the physics. I just wanted to say that a sample size of 1 doesn't make a valid study. The greater the amount of samples, the more precise the data will be.
@@Kremit_the_Forg if the German military is anything like the US when it comes to procurement of weapons, the sample size is 1 gun in every so many produced is tested during production. If one gun fails, another is chosen to try and replicate the failure if it happens all production stops and all are rejected in that lot. And every gun is tested upon production even if it's not the test gun, the test gun goes through much more stringent and harsh testing. We get absolutely brutal on them.
I used the G36 back in my Bundeswehr days and I never had issues with it . That being said, I never had to shooting hundreds of rounds in a a short time. Still I'm pretty sure h&k build the rifle to the standards the BW wanted them, but then it was used in scenarios that were never expected... that's not hks vault in my opinion.
I think the Argument "It is always a compromise and do you want a rifle that can take 10 consecutive magazine dumps but weighs 4 pounds more every single minute you carry it?" is very valid. It doesn't neglect the possibility of there being some "issues" in rare circumstances but it acknowledges that it's a tradeoff. I remember the incident that brought this to the forefront was a group of Fallschirmjäger having to fight their way out of a prolonged ambush. My personal take on the matter is this: If you are wading that deep in the shit then there should be backup arriving. There should be no reason for a group of Infantry to have to fight with their personal rifles for hours and hours. There are other failures when that happens, that have nothing to do with a rifle. Use MG3/4/5s and also Tanks/APCs and Helicopter Gunships should be arriving at the scene long before this becomes a problem. Plus the German Politicians are apparently against giving drone support to the Troops, something that would be very advantageous in getting a swift upper hand in an ambush which is a shame because that argument is entirely political "We don't trust Robots" and has nothing to do with real world situations.
Funny they won't give drone support to their own troops but will illegally sell drones to the Libyans (Look it up, DW just did a documentary on it, the BND is trafficking weapons to all the world's hot spots right now).
sounds like the good friday battle: check dis awesome documentation about it: (It's from the american perspective) ruclips.net/video/iV_dhrhip1s/видео.html
>My personal take on the matter is this: If you are wading that deep in the shit then there should be backup arriving. There should be no reason for a group of Infantry to have to fight with their personal rifles for hours and hours. Shouldn't be, but there's tons of war footage demonstrating that it happens with regularity.
I'm no expert in firearms _or_ physics, but last I checked, a gun barrel of any weight and/or thickness can only take so much stress from heat and overpressure, especially if the shooter couldn't hit a dead blue whale at 300 yards and is in recurring hours-long firefights without mechanized, armored, or air support, and therefore putting significantly more abuse on their weapon over a shorter span of time than expected.
"The chances of Haenel winning are, like, zero." And it was just announced that Haenel's MK556 was chosen as the winner of the tender to replace the G36. LOL
@@ajesbayes9057 Yeah, I heard about that. HK's grounds of "copyright infringement" is pretty laughable, though. They don't own the concept of a piston on an AR.
There are still many more problems with the rifle itself. A few of them got mentioned by "john doe" in the commentsection here. I heard the same complaints he made a lot and had them myself.
12:30 well, Haenel vs. HK evolved into a real drama as of march 2021. Their "close to 0% chance" went to close to 100% back down to 0% because of alleged patent infringment. would be realy interessting to hear Ians comment on that!
As we now now it was far worse than the patent infringment. The patent was only a quick stop to buy HK more time to investigate the real issue wich was blatant corruption. As we know now Haenel manipulatet the documents for scoring the weapon. Those scoring sheets are excel sheets give to both companys and they had to fill those by them self to score different stats on the weapon. As example lets take weight: The document says if your gun weights (numbers here are not correct, only to show how it works) 4200 to 4300gr give it 5 points, 4100 - 4200gr 6 points 4000 - 4100 7 points and so on till up to 10 points for a weight of 3700gr. So HK wrote down the 10 points even if the gun was 3400 gr. Haenel didnt...the counted on so they didnt not give 10 points...they gave themself 13 points. Those points are later multiplied by a modifier (cause some critierias are mor important than others) the get a final overall score. This way they got a better overall score then HK who filled the documents as they schould be. Second was corruption. In the end both companies had tho give the "best and final offer (BAFO)". In this you had to say what will the gun cost. HK made a final offer and said how much a single weapon incl. tools, optics etc. cost and that is the also the way it was demanded by the BAAINBw. Haenel did not...in their BAFO they didnt specified the price for a single gun but for a set of 3 guns instead. But this isnt allowed. And in the same time this set of 3 guns was much higher priced then 3 single HK guns. Normally this break of regulations (not offering the price for a single gun but for a set of 3 instead) would have Haenel been disqualified from the whole process because BAFO can not be reworked. Instead the had someone in the BAAINBw who gave them a call just after the 3 (1 for each of the HK guns and 1 for the Haenel) BAFOs arrived with the Tipp to rework the offer and what the prices of the HK guns are. So they reworked their BAFO (forbidden as i said befor) and magically the price changed. The price change from 5.700 Euro (again numbers are not 100% correct and only to show what they did) for the set of 3 identical weapons to 1.700 for a single weapon and so they undercut the price of the HK gun.
Well..HK should also never get a government contract again,thanks to some legal issues,quality control issues and simply NOT fullfulling contracts.. But then again,the entire procurement and requirement process was a massive pile of garbage anyway @@Edelhonk
I mean, they delivered pretty well on "no compromises" with their Mark 23 actually managing to meet to SOCOM's impossible wishlist. Problem is you might end up with a rifle version of the Mark 23. Absolutely indestructible, does not know the meaning of "jam", suppresses like a dream, holds accuracy well, clears squib rounds by blowing them out with another round and not only not resulting in a kaboom, but retaining usable accuracy... and like the Mark 23, the rifle will cost 4x as much as a regular rifle, take twice as long to produce each unit, and be only usable by size XL soldiers.
I was very Happy to use and have this Weapon in my military time in the Bundeswehr, i had no issues with it, people just need to make a diference between a Machinegewehr that shoots only automatic and a Sturmgewehr , and i today do not know any other weapons that shoots accurate after 400 shots in auto/semi without cooling down ...
@@calanon534 It certainly are facts and I think it's about time so called Gun so called Jesus stopped treating people like us as ill-informed idiots and gave our ad-hoc theories the same respect as those based on facts and evidence. It's just blatant discrimination against the ignorant.... Ignoramusophobia.... And that's a *HATE CRIME!*
the manufacturer knows the coefficient of thermal expansion of the specific polymer blend and would have reams and reams of data from quality testing and would probably have picked a polymer that expands at a rate similar to the metal to prevent fatigue and cracking
HK's elitism isn't really helping them out, as Ian mentioned. I love HK's social media girl because she is basically a parody of the company and many of it's fanboys, however its almost like that's the legit attitude inside HK, especially in Germany, so naturally people want to see them fail and/or are in no rush to come to their defense.
HK needs to export hundreds of these G36 to the US for testing purposes, that will put the issue to rest. American gun owners make the best guinea pigs.
God i remember my 17 year old classmates tried to tell me how incredible bad this gun is....i just thought how do you even know youre a kid in school ?
funny, the G36 is such a great service rifle, especially for a conscripts army like the Bundeswehr was you can teach every simple grund to easily hit at 200 meters and above, which is pretty impressive
@@Markus-zb5zd In which universe does the Bundeswehr shoot decent at 200m plus? Police and even civil Sports shooters outperform them regularly,and im not even talking about the swiss....who have far higher requirements
@@NashmanNash that's the point, you shoot so much ammo in a short time when you cover on a rolling retreat. And in that case a lighter weapon is worth a lot more
Hk has a pretty great track record of producing firearms that are near, or actually the "gold standard" They even go about fixing junk produced by other groups, like the L85.
I love these pet rumors about firearms. I remember Colt taking an M4 and absolutely running it until it dies. And even then it was still functioning as a bolt action rifle once the gas tube burst. Granted, the updated heavier barrel lasted longer before TOTAL failure. But both rifles stood up to the standard load out of even an M249 fired as quickly as they could change mags. No breaks, no cleaning, no mercy. Eventually even the handguards caught on fire. But the military rumor mill is a powerful institution, the facts be damned.
AR is reliable weapon with acceptable accuracy, AK is reliable weapon with acceptable accuracy, G36 is reliable weapon with acceptable accuracy, SCAR is reliable weapon with acceptable accuracy, and L85 is..... L85.
German dude: I can't hit anyone with these optical sights. This rifle is shit. His Great Grandfather, who probably charged trenches with pistol & knifes: *Shame*
@@kavky yeah we did the same with our drugminister she was bullshit now we votet her into the European Union thats how we get rid of politicians that are shitty
To be fair: back in the day, the average German service-soldier fired like three shots during his carreer. I hope it got better with the shift to a professional army, but the Bundeswehr is notoriously stingy with its bullets. And like with everything, practice makes perfect.
Wouldn't it be hilarious if somebody started this "controversy" as a way to hurt HK and it ended with HK winning a contract to re-equip the whole Bundeswehr with ANOTHER HK rifle?
@Grant Googly Moogly A standard troop issue G36 came for less than 1000 Euros. I did my service with a G3, they had not enough money to have these in basic training.
One of the problems with the .30 Carbine in Korea was that the powder & (especially) the primers were temperature sensitive and didn't always fare well in Korea's frigid temperatures, and, yes, there was a lot of "I shot him over & over again!" when a more accurate statement would've been "I shot AT him over & over again!" There's a lot of that going on with the 5.56 too.
@@SpikeVike27 because after 2-3 Magazines you can not hit a target at 200m. I hated it too. Dont get me wrong, the G36 has LASER accuracy and a very low recoil. But after some shots, meh. Me and my comrades always joked that the barrel is made of lead.
@@SpikeVike27 I use the Spanish Army version, without bipod and with long barrel. Its heavy, more so if you put HK made accesories, like Picatiny Rails and the cumbersome grenade launcher, it is bulky, not so ergonomic, the optical sight hardly retain zero after some time, the magazines are fragile and too big, and their pegs break, the backup sight in the carry handle is useless, the stocks break also, and I have never shot more than 150 rounds with standard issue ammo and not have a malfunction. For the rest the rifle is fine, cheap and easy to maintain.
Stannan I shot way over 150 rounds never had a malfunction the G36 is extremely ergonomic the sight is great but yes the magazine’s are fragile only downside. its superior to every rifle excluding the 416 platform I ever shot and I shot pretty much every major service rifle and many in combat
@@Furri1bia I can't see how the G36 would be prone to any malfunctions. Accuracy and shift of impact aside, I have always considered it to be darn reliable. All the other issues can be solved with a different setup. There is a modified bolt release and a modified magrelease available. With both of these equipped, I consider the ergonomics superior to the AR for example. I didn't liked the standard optics, so I went for a pic rail and after market optic. I have ditched the transparent HK magazines with couplers for Magpul G36 mags, which are slim,light and durable. The G36 in it's basic configuration is just a package to hand out to the average Joe Schmoe.
Sympathy. I carried an M-16 of various models in the US Army and always hated it. Doesn't make it inherently good or bad, but if I had a choice, I'd carry damn near anything else.
Well, that settles it. I'm gold plating my issue M4. And to think I laughed at all the gold Warsaw Pact weapons we confiscated. Little did we know that was Heat Proofing worthy of a NASA reentry vehicle
Finaly a professional talks about this. As a german I have articles after articles talking about the G36 overheating on one side and I have friends who actualy go to the bundeswehr and they swear on the G36 being the best assult rifle in the world (Although they didnt shoot them much since they were never in frontline service and they never dumped mags down range ether) on the other side. No matter what you say you are my best source so I will belive you.
I was in the Bundeswehr and we dumped a shit ton of ammunition at once, because there was a lot left. 5 mags fullauto and the accuracy was still there, so ....
Gospel of the Gun Jesus?! 😂😂😂😂 You're actually spot on! 👌 He's wise like Jesus, and he definitely has the look. Could this be?....Naaawwww... not the second coming? Or is it?! 🙏🤔
"My rifle is broken! I can't hit anything! It's the rifle's fault I failed the qualification!" yells a random soldier in frustration during training. "Ok, let me shoot it." replies another soldier. Fires rifle.... "Well I just shot a 35/40 on the qualification range with your 'broken rifle'. I don't think it's the rifle...." Random soldier looks upset their 'awesomeness' was questioned. Not that this has ever happened....
If every criteria made was fulfilled than they hadn't done any compromise. Easy as that. What Ian stated was more like a "What COULD be possible" not "What was requested".
Ready for some more anecdotal ecidence? Here we go: I work in german government and do privisioning/sourcing/aquisition (don't know the correct collocation there) of stuff. I need to deal with political and economic interferences of people who are not qualified to do anything really all day. I think you described the issue quite accurately
Team Paulie the funniest thing about comparing it with the SA80 is that the much better L85A2 was the results of fixes by HK. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA80#A2_upgrade_programme
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
As a former Soldier in the Bundeswehr i´d say you are pretty spot on with your analysis.
I may add that our Defence Minister had no clue about anything defense-related. So meh, let her say what she heard from someone who knew someone...
In my Experience the G36 is fine and has been fine since it was adopted and was/is a huge step forward from the G3. Replacing it, again, is simply a stupid move and a huge waste of money.
das höre ich öfters, aber mir und meinen jungs hat das G36 garnicht gefallen. Kann es sein, dass die Gewehre unterschiedliche Güten in den Läufen hatten? Bei uns war es gang und gäbe, dass man auf 200m nichts mehr mit dem G36 treffen konnte, wenn es entweder sehr kalt war, oder sehr warm. Z.B. wenn man schon ein Magazin hinter sich hat, dann trifft man nichts mehr.
Nagel auf den Kopf Kamerad
@@clapper3530 Sagen wir mal ich hatte kameraden die hätten das scheunentor nicht von innen getroffen ;)
Die Umstellung kam kurz voe Ende meiner dienstzeit, ich konnte nur noch ein paar ausflüge zur schiessbahn damit machen. zur schützenschnur hat es gereicht und die Kameraden die noch einige jahre damit zu tun hatten waren alle zufrieden. Ob es tastächlich unterschiedliche qualitäten gab wage ich zu bezweifeln.
Wir haben zwar als KRK-battalion, später EK, eine bevorzugte stellung bei der versorgung gehabt (erste Flecktarnträger, frühe umstellung auf G36) ich glaube aber nicht dass da waffenseitig irgendwas gedreht wurde.
"I may add that our Defence Minister had no clue about anything defense-related. "
What she heard she likely heard from people who very much have a clue about defense-related issues within the ministry.
Your adding that only shows that you have no clue about the role of a minister, do not understand managerial positions and have some serious problems with the very constitution you once promised to defend.
@@ohauss ministers can be really stubborn and unwilling to learn even though they have advisors and generals around them explaining. Not only that, even if they acknowledge, they often ignore those advice when in conflict with their worldview, fellow ministers and party members. Sorry, but from my observation, the German defence minister is just like my country's own defence minister. Absolute clowns.
One instructor at my basic training in the german army said to our group: "die Schwachstelle ist immer hinter der Waffe!" What translates to: the weak spot is behind the gun, in this case the shooter.
BrumBrumDasAuto this!
In computer support we call this PEBKAC - Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair. Perhaps we should say Problem Exists Between Butt-stock and Boot-soles.
That plus some units don't bother to zero the guns they use for training.
That being said by a Bundeswehr instructor is tough...Pretty bad firing training and training quality and stuff...If the BW continues its "Bravo Level "Die Rekrutinnen" course",than even a G28 will deliver bad groups...
BrumBrumDasAuto an English version is: there's a problem with the seat-keyboard interface. You've also dispelled the myth that Germans don't have a sensevof humour that translates into a different language.
When this debacle started Lithuania put their G36 orders on pause, did their own tests on this issue, decided that issue does not exist and resumed ordering G36.
Nice.
What about the neighbour Latvia, didn't even stop with the orders or did they? The country needed to replace the old (given free from US?) M16A1 in a hurry.
Probably they were "persuaded" not to look,where they should'nt look! A certain German firm is really great in doing this!
@@francislematt7079 im not have heard that there were orders to stop but those hk36 is replacing the swedish ak4 who are licensed copies of hk g3 not sure when it will be finished
@Karl Liška I have heared that rumor too!What a coincidence!
"I want a gun that weighs two pounds, has a spread of one inch at 2 miles, and fires .50 cal rounds at 500 rpm fully automatic" 😆
you forgot "zero recoil"
@@pulbrabbitgaming5760 it should also have anti gravity system, which makes it lighter when it fires
Aiming, whats that?
@@pulbrabbitgaming5760 And is only 60 db
So... a DsHK?
Hi Ian,
I served for 4 years in the BW, and if you ask me the much bigger problem is that most German soldiers can't hit shit with their rifles. In my entire time there I don't think I did more than 200 shots through it. I'm also a sport shooter so it wasn't much of a problem for me.
If you ask me it's a training issue.
T Bear That’s a huge problem in any service. I’ve seen more troops than I care to name swear up and down the rifle was broken, when they were too drunk from the previous night to see the target.
Yes, I can confirm this. I am sport shooter too and I already had the experience with 5,56 sport rifles and I had no issues with G36. But the other soldiers can't hit shit but only cuz in the training in the first 3 months we get every time only 10 rounds to shoot 🙄.
M1TGLIED isn’t Germany a rich country ? No money for ammo for training ?
that is 100% true.
back when i had base training (january-march 2010) we went to the range like five times, there is no way anyone who isn't already a decent shooter gets good from that minute amount of practice.
as for the accuracy ranging from super cold to hot: 2010 was the coldest winter in recent history in Germany and the entire training batallion did their tests on only two rifles (the rifles handed out to recruits for drills where not properly maintained or sighted in ever so they weren't used) and the two guys who started when the things where at ambient (around -15°C) did just as well as the last two guys, the groupings people got (which is what recruits where tested for, not where they hit on the target) didn't change at all, almost everyone passed and those who didn't, performed just as poorly with the MG-3 and even worse with the P-8
really the P-8 is the gun that should be investigated, it's so bad that the test considers completely missing the target one out of four times, adequate.
@@Rake3577 beeing rich has little to do with it.
At times I thought they are afraid of every single bullet the give out to a soldier.
So they limit it as much as possible.
"Rifles get less accurate when they get hot."
"In other news, water is wet."
That and that black things absorb more heat, so the switch to tan coloured polymer things is on the same level as me deciding not to wear black clothes in the summer, as a 5 year old.
@@Lowlandlord AND if you live in the South do not buy a Black vehicle.
@Omne Obstat Yes, it turns to steam and your group size increases. Before you now it, no water is inside the pot you tried to contain it in.
Cool, but water is not wet. The adjective "wet" denotes something that's usually dry has water on it. If you spray water on water it does not change. You simply increase the volume of water. Water is not wet; it simply exists as itself.
@@SomeGuy-vo7we "wElL aCkShUaLlY-"
God, shut _up._
I have been waiting for someone analytical and non biased to talk about this for so long. Here in Germany I have heard so much nonsense by people who dont know anything about guns regarding the G36. Thank you Ian!
Ich bin auch Deutscher. Wie oft hab ich mir schon von irgendwelchen Vollidioten die keine Ahnung von Waffen haben dumme Sprüche wie "hahahaha das Gewehr unserer Armee schiesst schief hahaha" anhören müssen.
I don't know. It isn't a French rifle.
Most people in germany dont even know what a G36 is...
@@annairinastoll2960 kenn ich deutsche haben generell oft viel Meinung bei wenig Ahnung allgemein find ich das konstante Bunderswehrbashing lächerlich vielleicht gibt es Probleme mit dem Zustand mancher Ausrüstung aber was erwarten die Leute wenn das Budget ständig beschnitten wird
@@annairinastoll2960 Naja, der Ladehebel (kp wie der deutsche Begriff dafür is ^^) ist mit mal abgebrochen. Also gewisse Probleme gibts mit dem Ding schon.
::: Previously, on Kraut Clashes :::
Germany (late 1980's): "Mein G3 rifle is sooo heavy. It is basically a giant heat sink, and we can't hit anything because of recoil. Aren't you guys done making us a new rifle yet?"
HK (1989): "It took us two decades- but I think we have it figured out. May I present, the HK G11- a true 21st century rifle featuring caseless 4.7mm ammunition and a burst rate of fire above 2000 RPM. It will effectively double your hit probability over your G3 rif-"
US: [Crashes through the wall like the kool-aid man] "Lemme see this Kraut space magic!"
[Gunshots heard across Atlantic]
US: "Hmmm- pretty cool rifle ya got there Hans- but I think we are gonna stick with the M16."
HK: "...right, whatever dude. Anyways, as I was saying-"
Germany: [Interrupts] "OMG so sorry, but me and my ex got back together and moved back in with each other and his credit score sucks sooo bad and he is in so much debt and we also bought a boat so- umm yeah we can't really buy this but keep up the good work and the rifle looks super cool k thnx bye"
HK: "..what in the FU-"
Germany: [Interrupts] "Mein G3 rifle is sooo heavy. We need a new gun to replace these old, heavy, steel G3 rifles. Is there nobody who can innovate and provide us a solution?"
HK: "..well, you know we have the HK33/G41 model available, similar pattern to G3 but chambered instead in-"
Germany: [Interrupts] "Ewwwww too old we want something new and cool"
HK: [Says nothing, but looks around the room for hidden cameras to see if this is all some terrible decades-long prank for a TV show or something]
Colt, Steyr, FN, Sig: "We have many proven rifle designs available for purchase. Please, step into my office-"
Germany: "Ewwwww too old and expensive we want something new and cool. And German."
HK (late 1990's): "It took us a few years, but we designed you your very own special rifle. It uses all modern materials but follows all proven design principles, and it meets all your specifications. Best of all, we went of our way to make it very lightweight since you sure complained about how heavy the G3 was and it is pretty cheap to manufacture so it should fit within your budget. Oh, and your welcome."
Germany: "Yay! Thank you for-"
US: [Crashes through wall like kool-aid man] "Hey, whatcha got there? That looks new and shiny, and we are thinking about replacing the M16 again (for the twelve thousandth time)-"
HK: [Sighs loudly] "Here- just take it so we can get this over with and reaffirm your decision to keep the M16..."
[A loud "yee-haw" is heard in the distance, followed by gunshots across the Atlantic]
[Years go by]
Civilians: "Whoa, kewl rifle dude, can we have a civilian version?"
HK: "Fuck off."
[More years go by]
Civilians: "Can we just maybe have like- a couple of them? You can put a 16 inch barrel on it and all that, but can we please-"
HK: "Fuck off."
[More years go by]
HK: "SL8"
Civilians: "Fuck off."
[Years go by]
Germany [Circa a few years ago]: "Ewwww this super modern lightweight rifle that you designed specially for us with an exceptionally low price point is BROKEN. When our soldiers shoot them it gets too hot and is super inaccurate. What kind of cost cutting bullshit is this? I expect more out of German industry!"
HK: "Well, we designed what you asked for and did it all within a pretty low budget to boot. You tested it, and it met all your specifications. Also, we did basically invest 3 decades of R&D into a rifle for you that you suddenly decided not to buy, soooo it's kinda hard to see how this is our fault..."
Germany: "How DARE you! You will NEVER come to my birthday party again or make weapons for the German military!"
Civilians: [to HK] "Oh, snap- can we get a civvy-version now bro?? Pretty plea-"
HK: "Damnit civilian market- I told you already: fuck off. If we have time in the next few years, I will make you a civilian MP5 or something..."
[A few years go by. HK has not been invited to Germany's birthday party even once since the controversy]
Germany [circa now]: "Mein G36 is too melty and plastic and cheap. We need a new gun to replace these old, ineffective rifles. Is there nobody who can innovate and provide us a solution? It needs to have the same caliber and magazine capacity as our current rifle, but weigh no more than 4 pounds and be capable of sustained automatic fire for 16 straight hours without the barrel going above room temperature and have quarter MOA accuracy."
Colt, Steyr, FN, Sig: [looking around at one another] "Ummm- yeah. Fuck that."
HK: "Well Germany, you can take a look at our HK 416 rifle- it has more steel and aluminum in it too if that makes you feel better..."
Germany: "Ohhhh so nice but ewwwww way too expensive! Can't you make us something just as good but for way cheaper?"
HK: [sighs loudly] "That is not really how economics works but sure- we pretty much expected you would say something like that so here you go: HK 433. Knock yourself out."
Germany: [skeptical] "Hmmm, alright we will take a look but I am still super mad at you for making me adhere to the laws of thermodynamics and I am sure some of these other firearms companies will put something forward for us to review and I can't WAIT to pick their rifle over yours out of spite and pettiness EVEN if the bias and negligence causes another small arms controversy ten years from now!"
HK: "...whatever. Just please pay more atten-"
Civilians: [Interrupting] "...now can we get a-"
HK: "OMG please STOP nagging me about civilian-legal versions of our firearms! Don't you realize we have a reputation to uphold!? We can't be elitist and cool if every redneck in the US could buy our rifles! But you know what? Here! Take it! It's new- we call it the SP5. I am tired of this stupid sub-machine gun anyways! Been trying to get people to buy the UMP replacement for decades but they STILL want this damn model..." [Ranting trails off]
[HK is still ranting to itself while looking for the hidden cameras that will reveal this has all been one long prank over the last half-century]
[Civilians are still asking HK to export the G36 in a civilian version that is not utterly idiotic like the SL8]
[HK is still promptly telling said civilians to fuck off]
I spent WAY too much time writing all of this but it was too much fun and this is what happens when I re-watch old Forgotten Weapons videos during the COVID-19 lockdown!
Tf?
Is this how Poland balls cartoons are written??
Man, this is epic, I read the whole thing.
It reads like a script, if you had a couple of grand laying around and knew some out of work animators this could be an amazing animated short 👍
Good job man lol spent alot of time reading it
Gold.
Headline: "Bundeswehr and German defence minister outraged Heckler and Koch hasn't been able to overcome physics for rifle. Adopts new H&K rifle anyway."
Well considering how inept our two last minister of defense are, it's not suprising that they seek to defy physics in their specifications. And then they will adopt HK anyways, because sucking the dick of car manufacturers and weapons manufacturers is only natural to the CDU.
@@alexhannah8889 the german defense minister is just a a part of the picture though. most of the real influence is held by the Wehrbeauftragter des Deutschen Bundestags (
military commissioner of the Bundestag) and the Generalinspekteur der Bundeswehr (Inspector General = highest ranking soldier) and the Verteidigungsausschuss (defense committee)
@@I31R0 Aaand the last three Verteidigungsminister we're all right Rohrkrepierer (Barrel bursters)..........we got a Liar (who cheated on his PhD), an obtuse idiot (who thought deines need No TICAS), and finally the clueless one (a former Family Minister who thought that a Military could be a Family friendly employer.)!
Das BmVg always Eclipse them MOD when it comes to Sheet unadulterated stupidity!
@@LupusAries Yes. You nailed it. But our government has more than one idiot.
considering last 2 german def ministers were woman i am not surprised by those requirements
As a former journalist from the times "before the Internet", I'm never ceased to be amazed by the in-depth research done you content creators like Ian that belongs in mainstream media, but sadly, today "media workers" don't put near enough effort to do it as it should be done. Therefore it is the content creators that become the primary source of objectively researched information instead of the regular "news". Well done!
It's not usually about effort but time - at least what comes to newspapers and such. Most online publications rely heavily on ads, and in order to get clicks they have to publish the news as quickly as possible, or otherwise people will read them elsewhere. The workers don't have enough time to do proper journalism. Not only that, but decreasing print sales and subscriptions rates lead to a situation it's not worthwhile to hire workers who could do investigative journalism or otherwise cover subjects in-depth, because most of the time clickbait journalism, made-up controversies and speed equal more profit than quality and reliability.
@@tiihtu2507 I wholeheartedly agree!
The internet for all it's good sides is the worst enemy of well informed journalism. Just look at the amount the NY Times, or other big newspapers lost in ad revenue. The revenue they gained from their online publications is only a quarter of what they lost in print advertisements and subscriptions.
Part of Ian's charm, is not just the effort he puts in, but rather the very broad and deep knowledge of the subject area, and the obvious passion he has for his topic. When you have EXPERT level knowledge, it is easier to understand and provide the analysis on technical, complex and sometimes fraught issues dispassionately, and Ian simply ticks all the boxes.
having worked with news reporters, personally written news articles worked with news cameramen and run for elected office. i have engaged with the press, I've seen how the sausage is made. And mostly how is made is some guy takes a half hour to get a vague impression of the idea and is the first to publish, and all the other sources regardless of format just copy the angle of that first guy. The guy who rushed it and didn't do any homework. The guy who didn't take the time to play back the interview recording to get quotes correct. Accuracy is not the primary priority. Publishing before the next interval is. If forced you can always print a retraction later. But the news sources are not paying for the hours it would take to do real investigation anyway. the guys who make any pretense of having journalistic integrity don't take the time to do research they just put in hedge words. "Some are concerned that... "
"the old Media" is shrinking and less and less Funds for Research are available. No Journalist works for free (except few Idealists). On RUclips and other New Media platforms spezialists talk directly and no Funds for Research are needed.
"Sometimes when you're right, you have to be a little nicer to convince people you're right"
Ian McCollum
100% the truth
A lesson the internet has yet to even consider it seems.
And if they are out for your scalp, being nice is going to really help won't it? This isn't about convincing people who are honestly mistaken. This is about people who have an agenda and do NOT care if you are right. When you are nice to people like that, all you are doing is inviting them to do more against you. After all, there was no consequences in doing so. You were even "nice" to them, so why stop.
@@JS-ob4oh theres a huge difference between being nice, and then just being a pushover.
Indeed. You can be right, but if you can't get the popular vote, it means jack shit. Doubling down on the smartass isn't smarter, just ineffective.
@@AlastorTheNPDemon Who is "right" and who is "wrong" doesn't matter. That's the problem with modern politics. We've forgotten how to compromise.
I am a German Sergeant Major, and a Shooting Instructor. I never ever had any accuracy problems with the G36, even if I used it the whole day and shot more than 500 rounds a day. But when you try to make a light machine gun out of it, it sure will get really hot and then, like every other rifle, the accuracy decreases. The G36 ist a very good, reliable and accurate rifle. Don't listen to what the former MoD was complaining about that rifle, she never shot it and she's got some personal issues with HK.
that's also what i observed in my time
Dem ist nichts hinzuzufügen.
Thank you for your point
Personally I had a lot of respect for the HK weapons
She was obviously a diversity hire inflicted on the German armed forces by their internal opponents. What other damage did she do? The German army of today is not the Bundeswehr of the early Cold War (who were a joy to serve beside when I was stationed at Sembach).
"We don't like HK. We need to replace this HK. With a new HK."
If there is no valid competitor, you end up in a funny situtation. Either you replace your HK guns by worse ones, or you stick to HK.
while having to compensate them for the lost profits they would have made delivering the rifles
Exactly.
@@5minutemovies977 I would love to see Germany using good ARs but literally every AR platform in the running scraps the best thing about an AR: the DI gas system and only keeps the second best thing about the AR
So really I want them to keep using G36 because anything they replace it with will be stupid.
HK executive to politician buddy: Hey, I need a new yacht and so do you, so ... time to buy new rifles?
This all sounds just like what US troops said about the M16 when it was adopted, and even today. In my day (late 1980's) troops and Marines could be heard saying that the M16 is an inaccurate rattle trap, is ineffective, and malfunctions all the time. Some things never change. Troops trash talk their weapons... always have, always will. It was good seeing you at SHOT.
Military Arms Channel Yep. Was US Army Infantry at the time. Now the A1s in service at that time were rattle traps. Just due to their age. The A2s we were issued 6 months after I got to my first unit were new solid rifles. While I did have reliability issues with both my A1 and A2s they were all pretty much related to those freaking wore out magazines that looked like they had been used during the TET offensive we were issued at the time.
No, not really.
The debate here is between politicians. The german troops actually like the G36.
But the M16 was an ineffective, inaccurate, malfunctioning piece of shit when they first got it. Ian even has a video about it on this channel, where he interviews one of the designers, who basically says that the specs were changed between prototype and mass production in such a way that it landed somewhere between sabotage and high treason.
And that the gun was fixed in the A1 version, which basically reverted to the original blueprints.
Then why is the Spanish army reworking their G36s?
@@lapinrigolo Because they are 20 years old? Because they want optics or other changes that weren't standard when it was first adopted?
Reworking isn't the same as replacing.
Or is the M16 bad since the US Marine Corps decided to go with M4 as their new standard main armament?
...Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Given that H&K, in their infinite wisdom, decided to put a polymer trunnion in the rifle... I dunno. Heat transfer is a thing. Polymer can lose structural rigidity far faster than aluminum or steel when heated. Doesn't sound like a very wise design choice for a standard issue assault rifle that is going to see decades of service and high round counts.
"I'm gonna get flack from all sides for this."
Yeah, but whether or not it sticks is going to depend on if the grouping of a Flugabwehrkanone changes significantly as it gets hot...
flak
Sonderkraftfahrzeug panzerabwehrkanonen wagen!
Gesundheit.
Well a good old 88mm wouldn´t care to much about group size.
Stylish. 👍
Hello. I am an engineer with 15 years of experience and I am pleased to say that in my humble opinion you belong to a small group of extremely competent people, and your understanding and explanation of this and other issues related to weapons is absolutely perfect. It is very pleasant to watch your program.
It's just lifeless metal.
@@mayorhaggar1275 That's not a very nice thing to say about Ian.
@@edwardarquette3884Ian is pretty metal though, he got half of that right.
As someone who served 2010 in the Luftwaffe, having the G36 as service rifle, let me comment a few things:
There have been indeed issues with accuracy, long before the real controversy that has really made it into the public.
The Bundeswehr had an internal study about this and found that these accuracy problems were caused by a certain type of ammo.
As a result, this ammo was not used anymore and these accuracy problems vanished.
The video correctly points out that this controversy basically was made up for political reasons, probably or most likely (as many would say) for lobbyism reasons.
This is heavily supported by a testing study that was initiated later on, containing about 300 pages (if I remember right) that concluded that the G36 was indeed having these accuracy problems.
The problem with these study is though, every soldier who has gone through basic training would know how useless these results are after having been told the test parameters:
The accuracy was tested after and ridiculous amount of shots in full auto, so basically a way of using the gun that reminded much more of a intense machine gun fire than the way how a rifle is intended to be used, which of course is basic knowledge for every soldier.
So everyone who has just the most basic knowlegde about how to use a rifle in combat must come to the conclusion that these study was basically made to produce earlier planned results.
This was certainly confirmed by a lot of soldiers, starting at the sergeants up to higher officer ranks.
The controversy is simply an agenda to justify a new service rifle, which is not a popular political demand in leftist Germany, nothing else.
Let me add that I personally asked old comrades, some of them have been deployed in Afghanistan, about this controversy, of course the answer was not surprising at all:
"It is bullshit, made up, etc.".
Also there are other countries than Germany that use the G36 as a service rifle, as well some Armies/Militias in the middle-east lately, and they were completely happy about the new rifle.
My personal opinion is, the G36 is a decent service rifle.
Probably not the best, certainly not the worst.
I simply loved the combined scope with red dot integrated into the gun as well as the possibility to fold the buttstock.
I should add though that the 5,56 x 45 mm NATO was never really loved in the Bundeswehr, especially when speaking to older soldier who started with the HK G3 as service rifle.
They always praised the power of 7,62 x 51 NATO.
I'd say the G36 is one of the best service rifles for a conscript army, like the bundeswehr was
it's easy to clean, easy to operate, easy to shoot and pretty durable while also being light
@@UMADBRO64 we're talking 200-300 rounds, not 30
"They always praised the power of 7,62 x 51 NATO." I'd love to see a G36 in 7.62mm NATO.
@@UMADBRO64 u do know the m4 is not much better than g36???
In the early 80s as a conscript we had AK4 = G3. The army had all these test for us to get "certified", one was hitting 5 rounds within 20cm/8inch at 200 m, we had an sportsshooter using swedish mauser 96 in competiton, he alwas got about 10cm or below. The only way to get him to miss the center, was to distract him and turn the sight to 500 meters, still same group but on a whole different place, it only worked 2 times, after that he always checked his sight settings. The G3 was heavy, bulky and always in the wrong place, as an artillery crew, it always come down and hit You in the back of your head. Later on they changed the rules, we may set the rifle away but no longer than it was within easy reach. In combat i would rather carry 2 pounds more, but be able to shoot at the enemy at longer distances or throug some tiny fur trees. And you only had one caliber to handle the same as on our mg ksp58. Heavy clumsy but easy to shoot.
The most hilarious thing about the controversy is, if HK actually gets to replace the G36 with a new model, all those who tried to damage HK effectively just rewarded the company with another major contract. Otherwise the G36 would stay in use for more than just a couple of years
Well done :D
Don't forget that they could just roll out replacement parts for the G36 to make it more thermally inert.
Rumour has it HK needed the new ordonance rifle contract to stay afloat financially so thats why all this 'controversy' emerged...
Oh actually the G36 is already overdue for replacement. I thought the planned usage should have ended 2015. Edith 2016 it should have replaced after 20 Years.
@@Talashaoriginal There's nothing inherently wrong with the modern versions of the rifle though.
@@MrDiamondism Who knows. It certainly would be an incredibly risky move
It may be worth observing that in the closing years of WW2, all German vehicles left the factory "dunkelgelb", basically desert yellow. It made a good base color on top of which you could put additional disruptive colors to mesh with anywhere the Germans were going to fight (i.e. Italy, Eastern Front, or France)
The new color on the gun is mainly because it doesn't let the gun heat up that much/fast as the black color.
I think we can't really compare tanks with guns in case of field made camo patterns. You probably cant damage much by just painting over a steel plate, but you would be butt fucked the moment some paint goes into the action of the gun. Cleaning it up will be a pain and just imaging you freahly painted it, you get a attacked and now you will have a significant emotional event while no rounds are coming out the barrel and the enemy is coming near you.
Oh buggar my guns on fire.
Interesting that this is exactly what France is doing with its new camouflage scheme.
@@Tankliker Black colour means it doesnt heat up as fast from the sun (light absorption), i dont think that is a point. The gun heats up 100x more from being fired. In that case black is a benefit as it allows heat to dissipate to the environment faster than light colours. But in the end this effect is minimal so heat has nothing to do with colour choice
@@northernsupernova1 you know, yes, the barrel heats up from shooting, but name me a gun where the grips heats up from shooting.
And also, it is scientifically proven that black objects don't reflect light as good as other colors and therefor heat up more.
Also, what use has it when your whole gun becomes hot just by letting it lay in the sun and if you ever stepped on a stone on a hot day, or gripped something made from metal you know very well that touching it can be very unpleasant and could cause burns if it's hot enough
_"They hated Gun Jesus, because he spoke the truth."_
420 likes
Galatians HK4:16
666 likes !!!
@@marcossanantonio2435 You ruined it. Good thing I already capped it.
BS.
When you watch a US gun channel to tell you about your country's gun debates.
lol
Only shows that our german media is full of s**t most of the time.
@@Betterhose confirmed
A view from afar can sometimes have a clarity that isn't possible up close. See "Can't see the wood for the trees" a common saying in English.
@@truckerallikatuk
We have the exact same saying in german as well.
"Den Wald vor lauter Bäumen nicht sehen".
Gun Jesus preaches to the crowd with his infinite wisdom and asks
"Am I your enemy for I have told you the truth?" - HK(Galatians) 4:16
Good bible reference, you have my like
Not particularly religious, but always appreciate a good quote.
Awesome
Blessed are the cheese makers!
Best comment I’ve read!😂 Could not have picked a better verse for the situation or company.
“...poisoned...by political and economic considerations...”
*US M14 and British L85 avoid eye contact*
I agree the M14 was replace because of Political stuff. It is a good gun. Which is why it has been brought back using light weight modern gun design. The L85 how ever was a PoS and needed to be replace.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
@@robgoodsight6216.
@@Nah_Bohdi ...sorry but I just have a picture in my head of the M14 and L85 not looking at each others....hilarious!!!
@@doomblackdragon the m14 is a decent gun, but compared to other designs at the time (mainly the FAL) it doesnt hold up too well. The only reson the m14 was brought back is because you didnt have any other dmr rifle at the time..
Our Minister of defense at the Time the "scandal" happend was notorious for having no idea about millitary issues (She used to be minister for labour and social affairs and has never served). Her involvement in the whole affair might explain why everything went like it did...
Except, of course, that completely misses the role of a minister, forgets that the procurement problems of the Bundeswehr are much older and is just good old Prussian dreams of having a military which owns the state rather than vice versa.
Naja vom regen in die traufe 😂
and now she's president of the EU Commission...
And look were she is now,...
@Plantman Whoreticulture is there any need for the casual sexism considering how many fucking terrible military decisions/decisions in general have been made by male politicians?
I was on rifle team in high school, and one day, one of the shooters was having a bad day shooting wise, and saying he can’t get the rifle sighted in. The Coach, a Lt Colonel in the US Army, sighs, takes the rifle, assumes a good standing position, and gets a perfect bullseye, it was amazing, and he hands it back to the shooter, and says “I just wanted to make sure it was you and not the rifle” and let us continue with practice
What a roast.
Was his name clint eastwood by any chance?
@@andreewert6576 First thing that came to mind.
@@andreewert6576 Now I'll give you a true story. A private in winter infantry training, accompanies the Platoon Warrant back to the MRE cache, only to discover a mess of scattered packets with the tell-tale beak marks of ravens. The Warrant sent me to get my rifle, and when I got back he unscrewed the BFA and pulled some live rds out of his pocket. Loaded a rd in 'my' rifle, and without any zero just aimed at one of the ravens near the top of the fir tree and standing up let off a shot. We watched the bird spiral down through the limbs, into the snow. He told me to go get it, so I did and brought it over. Had a hole right in it's eye, it was amazing. It's hard to estimate distance quickly looking upwards, I'm thinking 30-40 meters. Tree size is no problem up there (Oh yeah, this is in Canada.). I buried the bird under some snow and brushed away any blood stains. He said keep this to yourself, other than my best friend I did. The shot was too cool not to share with someone, not like him and I would ever recollect the moment, besides I'm sure he had more amazing things to remember.
I don’t believe it, officers can’t shoot.
Allegedly, the Spanish Army *DID* make a pretty serious test to their G36s after the whole thing went ballistic in Germany, and found their (local manufacture of the specific E variants, but still same design in what regards to what theoretically causes the issue) rifles perfectly good.
I can't find any link to the actual tests at all - but this was widely reported in the spanish media back when the topic was hot stuff. Maybe if someone with the proper connections to the spanish ministry of defence could take a look at the actual test reports - what's me I can't even find anything official, other than the statements from the ministry of defence and the media coverage of the topic.
I've also got familiars and friends in the Spanish Army too and they all say the whole "cant hit when hot" thing is bull. Not that the dispersion doesn't increase, but that it doesn't more than with other rifles, and probably does so less. In general, they hold the G36E in very high regard and have little complain about it (though that's the people I know, I've seen complains about them being a bit fragile from people in the internetz...but the people I know personally, all speak highly of the rifle).
Under the hot spanish sun, the rifles never get cold, thus their group of impact won't change lol.
@@Betterhose an SF in Malaysia here simply said they checked it out and found nothing wrong. Malaysia is fuckin hot mind you. Just another day in German politics.
@@Betterhose You know we have cold seasons down here too, right?
you are absolutelly right, my dad has been in the army his whole life(he is retiring this year) and both he and me have shot the g36, well several of them in fact and its 100% a 1moa rifle, i was told that each rifle costs about 500€ to produce and get issued in our army. I bet no other rifle is capable of that. btw ill try to ask and see if i can check the results of those tests, they might have been published in the defence ministry newsletter, but I think its ilegal for us to bring out that kind of info, anyway I'll try.
The Spanish probably use different ammunition than the Germans :)
www.heckler-koch.com/de/presse/detail/article/bundesrechnungshof-agiert-rufschaedigend.html
"Sometimes, even when you're right, you need to be polite to convince the other people that you're right." Or, as The Dude put it, "You're not wrong, you're just an asshole."
Pure gold. (I'm right a lot, and I'm an asshole about it. Sorry!)
Gun Jesus abides.
Abiden Duden.
That's such a good quote
Ian, congratulations on this one. This video is one of the most accurate, precise description of the situation at hand I have ever come across. You manage to pinpoint all the fundamental issues that are floating around in this case in less than 20 minutes. Also, one of the things that I asked myself when I learned about the trial for the new standard rifle: why would any company participate in a trial when they see what happened to HK? It just gives the impression that the MoD here in Germany is not a reliable business partner when it comes to long-term contracts. Especially, when they do not even lift a finger to figure out what the actual problem is.
oh, HK definitely got paid, and the whole ayotsinapa thing was sunk in court...
Ditto
Pure gold. Ian did it in 20 min. You did it in 7 sentences.
The reason might be that you earn hundreds of million…certainly the chance to be blamed by the Germany’s MoD of doing sowing wrong (they do this to cover their mistakes) is high but it’s highly profitable
You'd think that IF there was a problem, the company that fixed the SA80 can fix their own damn gun.
“Anecdotes are not scientific” is one of those great quotes that no one should have to say.
Great video, Ian, thank you.
Anecdotes lead to science
DawnOfTheDead991 Sometimes, yes.
@@messmeister92
Anecdotes lead to a question, a question leads to a hypothesis, a hypothesis leads to testing, and testing leads to a conclusion.
@@Mygg_Jeager Jah
Se also... The plural of "anecdote" is "anecdotes" not "evidence".
As they say, “statistics don’t lie, but liars use statistics. “
Al Gore?
Or don't trust a statistic you didn't doctor up yourself.
@@julietlima5564 Those damn ice caps melted 8yrs ago, but hey whose paying attention. P.S. No refunds/two shits given.
statistics are like bikinis, a lot is shown but the important bits are hidden
"Figures don't lie, but Liars can figure".
is the quote.
I was in the Bundeswehr at the time of the controversy, in a unit that was seeing deployment in Afghanistan. Every single soldier that I talked to was saying that it's politics and that the rifle is fine, and at the time this was also carried to the press. And german troops are trained appropriately. Also the german civilian public is very unapproving of any form of armed conflict and will jump at anything to have a go at a weapons manufacturer in the country and/or the armed forces, which might go some way to explain why H&K is a bit bad in support (in a civilian setting this is basically irrelevant in Germany) and why politics will try to look good by bad mouthing a decent system.
You nailed it. Segment of German society and politics that is, Anti-military, Anti- conflict, Anti- NATO, Anti-Joining America in war. The G36 was just the football they used to score. Like being anti-war, and calling in a bomb threat to the air tower to stop a C-130 from airlifting troops on a Tuesday.
At the time, I was just reading about the controversy in the press, and it felt to me like a concerted campaign against H&K. Even though back in the day I knew nothing about either side of the story, there was article after article picking on H&k and making it into a "scandal" in all papers.
Sucks to be German. Here in the states we shame gun manufacturers for supporting legislation that makes it harder fir their competition to compete. Cough cough Springfield.
i read that the rifle was said to lose zero after 150 rounds at full auto (5mags) in a row...
i mean... WOW... who coud have guessed
the rifle is AWSOME to shoot and handle btw (german here)
@@Blei1986 The Bundeswehr rifle doctrine really doesn't support mag dumping. And it's enforced in the harshest of ways as you, potentially, have to account for every round that you don't return to base with in your after-action report. Honestly the weapons-system is showing it's age, just in other ways. The optics, although totally workable, would benefit from an update, the sight pictures are pretty small, and the lack of a standardized modular attachment system isn't optimal. These issues could be solved with a refit though.
I'd like to see a comparison with a g36, an ar15 and an AK. Then maybe people will realize a hot barrel is a hot barrel.
@@Sableagle be lucky to run that many rounds through an L86.
That's a neat idea, but you would probably need a few different ARs. The difference in barrels (which will probably have the biggest impact on the result, even before the G36 trunnion and receiver) is just too big within the AR market. That said, I would expect the G36 to do quite well, just as Ian alluded to. The H&K cold hammer forged barrels have an excellent reputation for accuracy. And as the owner of an H&K MR223A3 (EU version of the MR556 in CIP spec .223, which is basically identical to 5.56x45 NATO, so as close to an HK416 as you can get as a civilian here) I can anecdotally confirm this. That thing shoots great (far better than I can shoot), even after dumping two or three dozen rounds in a brisk semi auto pace. Which is not quite the same as dumping mag after mag with the fun switch, but as far as practical usage goes, probably more realistic. Even for the full auto HK416, it's not a personal machine gun after all.
ruclips.net/video/iTbTyFloelc/видео.html this would also be a good test
wasn't the argument about it's polymer frame and not the barrel?
Nothing can be worse than a pre 58 series mini 14. Those original pencil barrels start to droop after 15 rounds or so
4:25 My understanding was that troops with M1 carbines were firing at Chinese solders at 500 yards. The M1 Carbine sight only goes to 300 yards. So they were expending all their ammunition and never hitting anything. Then when the Chinese DID close to within 100-200 yards, they were all out of ammunition.
Meanwhile, the troops next to them with M1 Garands were making those 500 yard shots, because that's something a 30-06 can do.
It was a training problem, from my understanding.
I suspect you could be right.
I have the stories from the friend of a friend who is the grandson of a Veteran that the bullets wont go through a padded coat.
Watch Paul Harrell's video on the M1.
110 gr Remington Green and White box round nose bullet. 4 of them through the meat target and all 50 layers of fleece. He was unable to show the bullets.
If somebody still believes the BS ask them to go stand in front of an M1 carbine at 100 meters wearing a heavy padded coat.
A while back somebody did some experimentation with Korean era Carbine ammo and found that it didn't tolerate the cold very well at all. IIRC they got around 900fps when the stuff was frozen to 0F or thereabouts so if that indeed was happening back during the hostilities then it makes sense that the little 110 grain pill could have trouble penetrating thick layers of coat. The poor unfortunates who fought that war under the most miserable conditions shouldn't be dismissed as liars just because we have trouble replicating their experiences.
@@recoilrob324 It would still wound you quite badly but it would be a less likey to be insistently incapacitating.
Hollywood and good hunting pratice give us the idea that gunshots are instant stoppers when there often not.
I have seen documentaries on American Hero Channel ( AHC ) where the veterans themselves have said that I recommend anybody and everybody to call their provider and get that channel really really good like the history channel used to be
@@recoilrob324 given that the problem was only reported very specifically in Korea rather than in WWII should give one pause. Plus a velocity of only 900 f/s is within the range of a M1911. Was there complaints of that gun having the same issue?
Even if we assume that the test conditions in said nameless video are indeed accurate, they fail to answer some simple observations.
No one is saying that Korean solders were lying. It's much more likely that they over judged their abilities or didn't see some critical action as they were being shot at and under high levels of stress. Your word choices suggest that your much too emotionally involved with trying to vindicate something that happened 70 years ago than to think clearly about it.
"my gun cant shoot straight"!
"no, YOU cant shoot straight"!
Anybody who has witnessed US servicemen shooting the M9 for qualifications knows the truth behind this one.
@@FrostSe7en truth.
to shoot perfectly straight, you have to adjust the optics correctly, and train your muscle memory a lot, so that you always pick it up the same way, and you have to know your natural body movement in different body states, and some calmness in mind and in breath. then you can shoot perfectly straight until a distance where wind and gravity becomes a factor. and then it gets so much more complicated, that only skilled shooters can handle it consistently.
greetings from someone who is pretty decent with gun aim.
@@certaindeath7776 Dude what... Do you want to feel special so you are pretending that shooting is harder than it is? My sister and mom can both shoot "perfectly straight" and didn't "train their muscle memory a lot" In fact, neither of them even own their own guns. It's really not hard at all, teach them proper grip, proper stance, and watch them be able to shoot groups smaller than most people at the range. That being said, most people at the range never even move the target further out than what you can accurately point shoot at.
Gun jesus recommendation: *GET GOOD*
"Sometimes when you are right, you need to be a bit nicer to convince the people on the other side that you are right." - I need to remember that.
It all goes under the broad umbrella of "It's not so much what you have to say, it's how you say it that's all important".
Solution: If barrel gets hot enough to melt, pretend it has turned into a lightsaber and perform a bayonet charge.
you could... change it? *happy MG42 noises*
@@sjeta MG42 with mounted lightsaber, oh those Germans....
Light saber duel but with extremely hot and bright red MG42 barrels
@@spicn00 MG42 barrel charge... something I would gladly die by lol
@@jantschierschky3461 dude we live in 2020 who tf needs Bajonett?! Just use your glowing, fookin' hot barrel
This video is a perfect example of the stretch of Ian's knowledge, I love how whenever he doesn't know something he simply states he doesn't know something he doesn't bullshit with you, or let personal opinion judge how he states a fact
Smart people tell you when they don't know something...that's one thing I learned from talking to PhDs; if they don't know the answer to a question, they admit their ignorance, tell you where to look it up, or tell you who to ask. Idiots, on the other hand, will pretend to be experts in order to look good in the moment, and they'll be angry with you if you ask any specific questions.
Unfortunately, most of us are surrounded by idiots.............
That is why he is the Masiah!
OMG. Despite the knowledge being laid down, I was thinking the same thing- why can't more people communicate with his balance? He breaks down both sides of the issue. Reasonably. That is tough to do (apparently)
Exactly
@@exquisitecorpse4917 exquisitely put 👌 ☺
I was part of the program for new rifle selection for the Portuguese army back in 2012 and i can tell you, we put the G36 trough the wringer.
You name it, we did it. Hot,cold,mud,sand, nothing would make it jam, changed sight pictured , or shifted aim up to 300meters (except extreme gunking) and it was the the selected rifle as winner for the tender.
But the people at IWI were not too happy with the result and sued the Portuguese state for benefitting H&K. And it was annuled.
We now have finnaly the FN SCAR L as the main infantry rifle. But the G36 has no problem whatsoever, this "hot and misses" claim was labeled as bull from day 1.
This. Pin this please, thx.
@jeanluc305 It is, i havent gotten my hands on mine yet! Still waiting to be issued one.
But it was ridicolous that because IWI threw a fit we had to wait another 7 years and go through the NSPA to finally replace the G3.
The Tavor isnt a bad rifle, but bullpup isnt what we wanted, its great for CQB, but lacks in medium and long range.
You have made very many good points, thanks!
As a former soldier: the H&K G36 is a great weapon.
You are right with the distances. They have changed because of scopes.
There are not many training days on higher range - so soldiers are mostly not well trained on higher distance.
Another reason many soldiers have a bad accuracy is that they treat their weapons like it would be the enemy.
And that approach leads to poorly results in aiming/hitting.
There was this one day here in Brazil, I was rehearsing with my band, the place was raided by the police and federal agents, I didn't ask anything about it.
Once I was cleared, an officer stayed with the "cleared people," he was carrying a G36C, I was aware of this issue, tried asking him about it, he was impressively forthcoming, he said "if this was true, do you think armed forces and police would keep this gun?" and that pretty much settled it for me...
While the g36 is a perfectly serviceable you can't rely on the fact that the military and police are issued a particular gun to tell you whether or not it's any good. Politicians and accountants buy issued guns not firearms experts.
@@davidmcguire6043 bingo, militaries use 115 grain full metal jacket 9mm. The gear that military and police personnel get is based on price
Onde era esse estúdio pra PF invadir, rapaz?
De qualquer forma, a opinião dos bobalhões da PF que mal dão tiros não conta muito, apesar do argumento dele ter sido coerente.
Don't they use pistol of questionable quality from Taurus
@@paulmaartin Most of them use their personal side arm, but yes, they are issued with that shitty pistol, my father used a Beretta M9, which he bought, and which is mine now...
HK customer service is just old school German.
Customer: "Hey, I think I've got an issue an-"
HK "Their is no issue, if there is an issue then you are at fault, go avay and read the manual!"
Customer: "I get that might be the case but I just wanna che-"
HK "GO AVAY!!"
*Overengeneered screeching*
Sounds a lot like Italian customer service. Ferrari fans no what I mean.
Sere is no isu wiz ze rifel !!
sounds like somebody with a problem on his apple device ;D
old school german would blame the jews.
10:35 For anyone who aren't that familiar with english, I'm sure Ian is saying "Media Furor" (aka "furore" in Commonwealth english). Furor derives from the term "fury" and has nothing to do with the German term everyone is thinking of.
Haha, I was wondering if anyone else noticed this.
@FREN thx, I had a VERY old dictionary source for "furour". PS: I use a mix of american and commonwealth spellings when it suits me, "color" seems so wrong compared to "colour" but prefer "maneuver" to the clumsy "manoeuvre".
Im happy you clarified this many people probably were like huh. Lol
What excactly is the German term everyone is thinking of?
@@thomaswolf2896 i hope thats a joke lol.
I served 14 years from 1990 til 2004 in Germany's Armed forces and I went to war with the G36. I served with the G3 and I loved its power, precision and reliability. The same qualities the G36 showed to me without fail.
Can it break? sure but so could the G3 if you handle your rifle without care and no respect any rifle will fail, even an AK47.
The G36 is, in my opinion, one of the top rifles out there. I have used it in training as well as in anger and was always very satisfied with the performance except for one thing, the penetrating power of its ammunition. The G3 with the 7,62*51 was and is much superior to the flimsy 5,56 but the increase in carried ammunition is a good argument for the change.
You don't really need that power for the standard infantry, though. 5.56 is not flimsy, it's extremely accurate up to long ranges and unlike 7.62 NATO, is extremely controllable in full auto fire in assault rifles. 7.62 NATO is a battle rifle cartridge better suited for long range engagements/suppression from an GPMG or Sniper rifle, not the close to medium ranges. A 5.56 bullet with a hardened steel core will zip through much of the modern bullet resistant vests of today and deal serious damage especially with its extreme accuracy modern military doctrine to aim at the upper chest which is not only the broadest part of the body, but also a part of the body that has many vital organs such as the lungs and heart. From close to medium range, 5.56 is vastly superior to 7.62 NATO in performance, it's has much lighter recoil which combined with how accurate the round is means it very easy to fire accurately in full auto which can't be said for 7.62 NATO rifles. Even in semi-auto, the lesser recoil means that follow up shots will be more accurate with 5.56 rifles than 7.62 Nato. If you had to shot a small target 16 times in 10 seconds, you'd accomplish that task far faster with the 5.56 rifle because the lesser recoil of the 5.56 rifle compared to a 7.62 NATO rifle would disrupt your aim less meaning that you could make more accurate follow up shots. Just look at how well the 5.56 AR-180/AR-18 of the Irish terrorists performed against the 7.62 NATO. The more controllable AR-18 meant the IRA could attack the British army with a volume of accurate rapid fire while the British soldiers could only fire back with slower semi-auto fire. The gas system of the AR-18 is the basis for the not only the SA-80 which replaced the SLR/ the British model of the FN FAL, it's also the gas system of the G36 which replaced the G3. This is the reason why 5.56 rifles have replaced 7.62 rifles in combat. 5.56 has such low recoil that shooting accurately in full auto is very easy which enabled your average infantryman to have access to full auto fire and even in the semi-automatic firing mode, keeping your shots on target is much easier with a 5.56 rifle because of the lower recoil. It's not just about how much ammunition you can carry, the lower recoil, but relatively high accuracy and range of the 5.56 means you have a cartridge that can provide accurate suppressive fire on target in both full auto and semi-auto which makes more lethality on the battlefield as your enemies are better suppressed because more shots are near them or they are dead because better accuracy means a higher chance of hitting them in vital areas.
I've seen it said by others: Flak is heaviest when you're over the target.
Hah, I'm remembering that one. Great analogy.
@MonkeyJedi99 Well said!
As the old saying goes: "the plural of 'anecdote' is 'anecdotes', not 'data'."
That is actually a misquote.
I've always found strange only Germany reported this issue with the G 36, while other users of the same rifle who had been engaged in the same hot environments (Spain, Lithuania, Kurdish Pershmerga Fighters in Iraq) never mentioned this problem and had no intentions to replace the rifle.
None of those countries have had G36s as long or in the numbers were talking about compared to Germany, too.
Notice how we went through two world wars without an issue with the BAR and it wasn't until Korea and Vietnam where we were putting a lot of ammunition through them. Talk to an armorer that worked with BARs in WWII and one in Korea and Vietnam and the you'll think the guy from WWII service was working on a different firearm. Circumstances matter. Time matters. These are machines, and the stresses and use of them impacts performance differently.
@@matchesburn you are absolutely right. but if u look into the original specifications for the G36 u can see that HK delivered. you cant sue them because there is need for other specifications in modern warzones now. the real problem here was that the reported shift in precision was after prolonged fighting in afghanistan where the G36 was used to lay suppressive fire. now if you do that with an AR it will damage the rifle, thats why LMGs were developed in the first place right? - the problem with that was (and still is) that german MOD did not adopt the MG36 and did not buy an adequate LMG to use on squad level. the MG3 is too heavy and so barely used in that case. again - not HKs fault the ARs are misused because the Bundeswehr has not been properly equipped. all of that is easy to gather info, but the media just posted headlines instead of actually asking the soldiers who work with the rifle day by day. wich makes this "controversy" even more ironic imo.
@@janeymers7154 Not that "machinegun-BS again! How could anyone lay down suppressive fire,if he/she has only 200 rds???? Second.It was "determind",that "faulty"MEN ammo,"allegedly" out of army specs,was to blame!
@@pebo8306 namely it was the "Karfreitagsgefecht" in Afghanistan. The main force in battle were 34 german soldiers, who fought from 1300 local till 2100 local when they were relieved by a reserve company. during the course of the battle 25000 rounds were fired. keep in mind they were probably in LUVs(Dingo) and had plenty of spare ammo. these werent special forces on a week long mission but a fully equipped patrol, so they definitely had more then 200 rounds per soldier with them. also i cant understand your last sentence.
@@janeymers7154 I'm pretty sure you guys are way better informed about the military activities, than the political environment that surrounded the g36 debacle. To sum it up the military budget in germany was criticized for putting billions on suspect external advisors and bad developed or impractical projects instead of stocking up armory and equipment like 3 months before the complaints over the g36 where published. The conclusion that someone had "a bone to pick" with H&K is possible but the imo more probable assumption is that the media wanted to confirm that the Bundeswehr is ill equipped, while big companies and external advisors make money out of it.
The G36 was simply not meant to "dump one or two mags". When I was drafted in the Bundeswehr in January of 2002, the G36 was still being intruduced into armories, as a replacement to the G3, for two reasons: First of all, NATO changed calibre to 5.56, so in order to be able to swap ammo between troops, we needed to ditch the 7.62 calibre, and second the function of the Bundeswehr had changed from "stop the Russian long enough for America to intervene" to "help other nations stabilize". The G36 was meant to be fired slow, precise, and tacticly by the soldier, all our training was designed for exactly that. The fact that this rifle on full auto would become less accurate was known and communicated throughout the whole basic weapons training. We never actually were trained on full auto, because we wouldn't be able to hit anything anyways. In full auto, you can use the G36 to clear a room in close quaters, but for anything else it was "Single Shot ONLY". And even though we had little training, I (being near sighted) managed to hit bullseye on 100 yards w/o glasses, and could paint a smile on the target at 200 yards with glasses, and at least score high on 500 yards even though my scope was meant for 200 yards. The Rifle itself is great, but it's not meant for longer or heavier engagements.
I think your second point is the most important one in this whole debate. The requirements for the G36 were based on a future conflict in middle/western europe, not central asia or sub-sahran africa. Also, as you said, for a more "traditional" conventional kind of warfare, not the kind of asymetrical war it is/was used in during the last 20 years. When I was trained as a Panzergrenadier we would use the full auto function of the G3 only during "Sturmabwehrschießen" (when the hypothetical human waves of soviet soldiers rush our lines). In a modern war, without clear font lines or areas of engagement ,it is much more likely that a soldier will need to use full auto, in order to break out of a sudden ambush and regroup/form a defensiv line. Not to break up an assault, but to force the enemy to take cover.
I've been a conscript in the Bundedwehr in 2002 and was trained on the G36. The only tactical maneuver that that included full auto fire we were trained on was the "Feuerüberfall"
de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feuer%C3%BCberfall
It would be used in a defensive position when confronted with a stronger attacking force. The goal of this tactic was to hold fire, assign targets, and then on command open full auto in short distance all at once to force the enemy into cover without revealing all of our positions.
The G36 was a very good rifle that I was very confident hitting targets at all intended ranges with. The combined red dot 1x and 3x optics in the hands of every service man was a huge advantage over competing basic service rifles of the time that would use iron sights, 1,5x optics and where not everyone would be issued additional optics mounted on the rifles.
Short controlled bursts. Aliens logic never fails.
Universal optics is a bigger plus for troops than most other weapon considerations from 1980-2005 ish
Both the Spanish and the Lithuanian militaries have tested their rifles again after the scandal, they both found that their rifles have no problems. The Lithuanians ordered more rifles after their test.
The Spanish report concluded that IF something is wrong with the rifle, it's due to the pencil barrel on the German G36 version. The Spanish military uses a heavier barrel, similar to the MG36.
The findings of the report were published on a Spanish language website, but I can't find it now. Maybe someone who can speak Spanish can google for it.
When I started my military service in the Bundeswehr in 2000 I wasn‘t convinced first about the G 36 since I had the G 3 first. But I learned that the G 36 is a reliable and great assault rifle. In my mind it was a political decision because the way it was tested to heat it up would produce fails on every gun.
To me it is a reliable and accurate gun which I don‘t want to miss.
Best wishes to our Weapons Jesus and thank you for your videos. :)
Its not an "assault rifle."
@@ChiTownGuerrilla Really? What is it then?
R6Mute Main Assault rifles are a type of automatic rifle, with very clear requirements to be considered one. Our media, the U.S.’s, just tends to use that term with weapons that aren’t actually assault rifles.
Than I guess we should start adding "assault" before every weapons name that is used to do harm then? 😁 Stop spreading US propaganda. Just call it a darn rifle.
@@ChiTownGuerrilla Clearly you do not know the history of the term or its definition, nor do you understand that the "assault" in the name comes from the military definition of the term, not a legal one.
it's when you begin watching a youtube channel you can absolutely not relate to, you found an extremely good youtuber.
I'm not a gun nut. i don't own one. I probably never will. Still i find your insights extremely informative and well presented. Thanks you Ian.
Go fire one, if you are sensible and safe, clay shooting is fun, not into hunting myself as I don't need to hunt to eat and our wildlife has enough survival challenges. Plus it's not really controlled well enough.
same.
What kind of weirdo doesn't own a single gun?
@@MrLTW2009 Sadly, there's weirdos on both sides of that question. Sold my one's quite a few years ago, but I'm only a little bit weird - I put tomato sauce on my macaroni cheese and my sister has words.
@@MrLTW2009 A Canadian one.
In the Navy we called it “scuttlebutt” or “mess decks intelligence.” It was worse than the web.
tf are you talking about
In Greece we call it (radio arvila) arvila is the name of the combat boots.
@@berrthealolanvulpix6273 Rumors
Hooyah
@donald smith ive never heard rumors called scuttlebutt, however mess deck intelligence is pretty spot on
I knew some Kurds who used the g36 in their fight against isis and they love the gun. They never complained about accuracy and they’re in the heat shooting well over 200 yards usually.
“don’t send death threats”
Please, we know Gun Jesus can simply reload himself if he is killed.
Lonesome 77 takes three days but he can do it
Harrison Rawlinson on the first day, the bolt handle is raised. On the second day, the bolt is racked and gun Jesus is chambered. On the third day, the bolt handle is lowered and gun Jesus is fired into the world
... and on the third day, Gun Jesus reloaded himself in his chamber and ascended into heavens...
- loud gunshot noise in the background -
...sounds like what probably happened when Gun Jesus was conceived... lol
The IQ of someone who has the great idea of threatening someone nicknamed "Gun Jesus" is probably not that impressive...
Someone who is nicknamed Gun Jesus.
Someone who can call up the French anti terror unit (Who don't speak to anyone. And especially not if they aren't French) and say "I'm the guy who wrote the most impressive book on French military rifles ever... can I come fondle your signature guns for a bit in front of a camera?".. and get a yes!
Someone who can get access to every "by appointment only" private armament collection in the world.
Someone who gets a personal invitation by Knights Armament to come "do a 100 round mag dump" on their new LMG...
Someone who is so stupidly recognized for his knowledge that a company like H&K, who has the PR training of a potato, runs with his nickname and post a Gun Jesus poster on their Insta.
Yeah... let's threaten him and call him stupid!
The G36 makes me hot and melt
Nice
Same fam
This comment is gold
Interesting.
OH MY!
Karl at InRange has done a few videos on the G36 since this one came out and initially found that he couldn't replicate an unacceptable loss of accuracy in a hot gun. But while shooting one in a competition with an original Hensoldt optic ( ruclips.net/video/9J0psXVo5Uo/видео.html ) he found that the polymer where the optic mounted became quite flexible, being bendable out of position using just his hand. He has provisionally concluded that the accuracy problems are with the optic mounting system, not the barrel/receiver interface.
nice, another learning material for this G36, thx
Makes a lot more sense than blaming the plastic on bending the barrel? .
It just needs a little upgrade on the critical structure places and make it heavyer, hey.
But Knowing our Ministry adding a new sling for it would even take 10 years
The Bundeswehr should replace the barrel with a wooden stick.
You’re like the Bob Ross of guns, I love watching your videos Ian you’re always so down to earth, opinion free and positive. You seem like such a cool dude.
Cheers from Australia
I have the solution Ian, you Carl and Brownells, sell them the WWSD 2020.
Yes, submit it now! Wait, sell them to us before you submit it! They will probably want a heavier barrel anyway!
As someone who served in the BW I never got to shoot the g36 under stress. So the lack of training explanation makes sense to me.
Genau das selbe hab ich mir auch gedacht. Ich war allerdings nur Grundwehrdienstleistender. Könnte mir vorstellen, dass die Soldaten die in den Auslandseinsatz gehen in ihrer Vorbereitung da etwas besser geschult werden als das bei mir der Fall gewesen ist.
"Sometimes if you are right, you need to be a little nicer to convince people that you are right" - Gun Jesus just ended the internet here.
FWIW, regarding the "overheating in combat" hypothesis, the firearm blog did a torture test on a G36. Ever after firing an ungodly amount of rounds, they did not find ANY loss in accuracy or POI shift. So there's that.
The group size will change a bit. I see it all the time, I do these tests for a living. I think the German government just wanted a new gun, so they took an already known fact and pretended it was an actual issue.
First off: I don't think that there is/was a problem with the G36.
But regarding that test: a test based on one sample isn't really accurate.
Do it with at least 100 (better 1000) rifles fresh from the factory and then you could make an accurate study.
I know this wouldn't be possible for any youtuber but I just wanted to point out that just because one is fine, doesn't mean that there is no problem.
@@Kremit_the_Forg a change in group size with a hot gun is not only expected but a well known aspect. Like I said, I do this at work with many different types of guns. The M4 has a hell of a tolerance shift with a hot gun, the ultimate issue is that people failed to realize that at a longer distance the small shift is multiplied. Germany wanted a new gun, more akin to that used by other nato countries and this slight change was the justification they needed. They also never mention if it's the short barrels that are being used in the situations they're talking about. The G36 has performed exceptionally well throughout its service life, and instead of saying yes we want a different gun they invented a problem.
@@herbertloper2863
I fully agree with you, but my point wasn't about the physics. I just wanted to say that a sample size of 1 doesn't make a valid study.
The greater the amount of samples, the more precise the data will be.
@@Kremit_the_Forg if the German military is anything like the US when it comes to procurement of weapons, the sample size is 1 gun in every so many produced is tested during production. If one gun fails, another is chosen to try and replicate the failure if it happens all production stops and all are rejected in that lot. And every gun is tested upon production even if it's not the test gun, the test gun goes through much more stringent and harsh testing. We get absolutely brutal on them.
I used the G36 back in my Bundeswehr days and I never had issues with it . That being said, I never had to shooting hundreds of rounds in a a short time.
Still I'm pretty sure h&k build the rifle to the standards the BW wanted them, but then it was used in scenarios that were never expected... that's not hks vault in my opinion.
All the militaries always seem to be planning on fighting the last war with the next rifle.
training rage rifles can tend to be heavily abused and overused.said the ex armourers assistant to no one in particular and particularly in peacetime.
@@Sableagle Fireing people and then telling them to build your new rifle cheap and for yesterday does not get you a good gun.
I think the Argument "It is always a compromise and do you want a rifle that can take 10 consecutive magazine dumps but weighs 4 pounds more every single minute you carry it?" is very valid. It doesn't neglect the possibility of there being some "issues" in rare circumstances but it acknowledges that it's a tradeoff. I remember the incident that brought this to the forefront was a group of Fallschirmjäger having to fight their way out of a prolonged ambush. My personal take on the matter is this: If you are wading that deep in the shit then there should be backup arriving. There should be no reason for a group of Infantry to have to fight with their personal rifles for hours and hours. There are other failures when that happens, that have nothing to do with a rifle. Use MG3/4/5s and also Tanks/APCs and Helicopter Gunships should be arriving at the scene long before this becomes a problem. Plus the German Politicians are apparently against giving drone support to the Troops, something that would be very advantageous in getting a swift upper hand in an ambush which is a shame because that argument is entirely political "We don't trust Robots" and has nothing to do with real world situations.
Funny they won't give drone support to their own troops but will illegally sell drones to the Libyans (Look it up, DW just did a documentary on it, the BND is trafficking weapons to all the world's hot spots right now).
What they dont trust
Cyberdyne Systems Model 101?
sounds like the good friday battle:
check dis awesome documentation about it:
(It's from the american perspective)
ruclips.net/video/iV_dhrhip1s/видео.html
>My personal take on the matter is this: If you are wading that deep in the shit then there should be backup arriving. There should be no reason for a group of Infantry to have to fight with their personal rifles for hours and hours.
Shouldn't be, but there's tons of war footage demonstrating that it happens with regularity.
I'm no expert in firearms _or_ physics, but last I checked, a gun barrel of any weight and/or thickness can only take so much stress from heat and overpressure, especially if the shooter couldn't hit a dead blue whale at 300 yards and is in recurring hours-long firefights without mechanized, armored, or air support, and therefore putting significantly more abuse on their weapon over a shorter span of time than expected.
"The chances of Haenel winning are, like, zero."
And it was just announced that Haenel's MK556 was chosen as the winner of the tender to replace the G36. LOL
12:40
Ian, your seemingly impossible has happend a few days ago..... and the winner is : Haenel 556 !!
@@Gtiperf will see HK will challenge that
and then it was cancelled today
@@ajesbayes9057 Yeah, I heard about that. HK's grounds of "copyright infringement" is pretty laughable, though. They don't own the concept of a piston on an AR.
Statistics are like a bikini: what they reveal may be very interesting, but what they conceal may be even more so.
Radar O’Reilly I’m gonna have to remember that one.
Excellent quote.
You have inspired me to plagiarism.
Thanks for repeating a Harrell- ism
"Anecdotes are not scientific."
My buddy's ex-wife's coworker's uncle said this one time it totally was.
From my time in the German army I can say the G36 was great. I reliably missed the target when the instructors were looking, 10/10
Ian I think you have done a good job explaining a problem that isn’t really a problem.
There are still many more problems with the rifle itself. A few of them got mentioned by "john doe" in the commentsection here.
I heard the same complaints he made a lot and had them myself.
12:30 well, Haenel vs. HK evolved into a real drama as of march 2021.
Their "close to 0% chance" went to close to 100% back down to 0% because of alleged patent infringment.
would be realy interessting to hear Ians comment on that!
As we now now it was far worse than the patent infringment. The patent was only a quick stop to buy HK more time to investigate the real issue wich was blatant corruption.
As we know now Haenel manipulatet the documents for scoring the weapon.
Those scoring sheets are excel sheets give to both companys and they had to fill those by them self to score different stats on the weapon.
As example lets take weight:
The document says if your gun weights (numbers here are not correct, only to show how it works) 4200 to 4300gr give it 5 points, 4100 - 4200gr 6 points 4000 - 4100 7 points and so on till up to 10 points for a weight of 3700gr. So HK wrote down the 10 points even if the gun was 3400 gr. Haenel didnt...the counted on so they didnt not give 10 points...they gave themself 13 points. Those points are later multiplied by a modifier (cause some critierias are mor important than others) the get a final overall score.
This way they got a better overall score then HK who filled the documents as they schould be.
Second was corruption.
In the end both companies had tho give the "best and final offer (BAFO)". In this you had to say what will the gun cost.
HK made a final offer and said how much a single weapon incl. tools, optics etc. cost and that is the also the way it was demanded by the BAAINBw.
Haenel did not...in their BAFO they didnt specified the price for a single gun but for a set of 3 guns instead. But this isnt allowed. And in the same time this set of 3 guns was much higher priced then 3 single HK guns.
Normally this break of regulations (not offering the price for a single gun but for a set of 3 instead) would have Haenel been disqualified from the whole process because BAFO can not be reworked.
Instead the had someone in the BAAINBw who gave them a call just after the 3 (1 for each of the HK guns and 1 for the Haenel) BAFOs arrived with the Tipp to rework the offer and what the prices of the HK guns are.
So they reworked their BAFO (forbidden as i said befor) and magically the price changed. The price change from 5.700 Euro (again numbers are not 100% correct and only to show what they did) for the set of 3 identical weapons to 1.700 for a single weapon and so they undercut the price of the HK gun.
@@Edelhonk okay, interessting to hear. i stoped following the news on that issue. Could you give me a source? EN or DE preferably.
@@croncorcen www.bundeskartellamt.de/SharedDocs/Entscheidung/DE/Entscheidungen/Vergaberecht/2021/VK1-34-21.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=3
Well..HK should also never get a government contract again,thanks to some legal issues,quality control issues and simply NOT fullfulling contracts..
But then again,the entire procurement and requirement process was a massive pile of garbage anyway @@Edelhonk
Just waiting for all the conspiracy theorists now, "he only likes the rifle coz HK tied him up and coerced him in the grey room!" xD
Gave him the only semi auto mp7 in existence. Probably
@@scottdpugnificent I would take this too
Who told you that? That information have not been cleared for public.
Please remain seated and do not turn of you computer.
What happens in the grey room, stays in the grey room.
To be fair, if you let me shoot my choice of what's in the Grey Room (and lay hands on a G11) I'd be inclined to view them favorably too.
Ahhh, a well-informed, rational, reasoned argument. So rare these days, and so refreshing.
I missed it rather in the past then today
"Every firearm design is a balance of compromises"
HK: "No compromises!"
Clear case of false advertising there...
/s
Underrated comment lol
looool
I mean, they delivered pretty well on "no compromises" with their Mark 23 actually managing to meet to SOCOM's impossible wishlist. Problem is you might end up with a rifle version of the Mark 23. Absolutely indestructible, does not know the meaning of "jam", suppresses like a dream, holds accuracy well, clears squib rounds by blowing them out with another round and not only not resulting in a kaboom, but retaining usable accuracy... and like the Mark 23, the rifle will cost 4x as much as a regular rifle, take twice as long to produce each unit, and be only usable by size XL soldiers.
I was very Happy to use and have this Weapon in my military time in the Bundeswehr, i had no issues with it, people just need to make a diference between a Machinegewehr that shoots only automatic and a Sturmgewehr , and i today do not know any other weapons that shoots accurate after 400 shots in auto/semi without cooling down ...
I've never seen one or shot one but I *KNOW* that if you take a G36 out in the rain the barrel gets soggy and soft. FACT!
Yes, because it's baked from bread, duh. I heard it! And the Spanish ones are made of cornbread, the barrels ALL made of moon cheese! IT ARE FATCS!
@@calanon534 It certainly are facts and I think it's about time so called Gun so called Jesus stopped treating people like us as ill-informed idiots and gave our ad-hoc theories the same respect as those based on facts and evidence. It's just blatant discrimination against the ignorant.... Ignoramusophobia.... And that's a *HATE CRIME!*
Yeah, but it retains it's shape and and the bullet can still fit down the barrel, allowing for integral wet-suppression *and* sustained fire.
@@keyboardwarrior6296 Only if you use the special Biscuit Jacketed Marzipan Point round.
"Without data you're just a man with an opinion." - W. Edwards Deming
Opinions are by nature devoid of fact and an enormous waste of time (at least in my opinion)
@Omne Obstat he is a popular Priest of Luciferianism
@Nathan Magnus r/whoosh
the manufacturer knows the coefficient of thermal expansion of the specific polymer blend and would have reams and reams of data from quality testing and would probably have picked a polymer that expands at a rate similar to the metal to prevent fatigue and cracking
Hope you're having a great start of the new year Ian. So happy you keep making great and interesting videos! High-five from a big fan, Sweden \m/
HK's elitism isn't really helping them out, as Ian mentioned.
I love HK's social media girl because she is basically a parody of the company and many of it's fanboys, however its almost like that's the legit attitude inside HK, especially in Germany, so naturally people want to see them fail and/or are in no rush to come to their defense.
Maybe because it's they match my personality type, but I love HK. They make great guns and they know it. Wish I could afford one.
Hk social media girl is a guy
@@RobotDCLXVI the quality level of their guns does not match nor warrent their ridiculous attitude about themselves.
@@saintqueso6946 you sure about that
@@saintqueso6946 that's kind of hot
HK needs to export hundreds of these G36 to the US for testing purposes, that will put the issue to rest. American gun owners make the best guinea pigs.
Eh i wouldn't say that, because going that route has quite a bit of bias on the part of gun owners
I'm willing to do my part!🤣
@@harveyknguyen are you saying that gun owners have preferences to certain firearms of Germanic origin? Imagine my shocked face😮
@@marcostadeo3577 Not really...
If Bubba and a couple of cases of cheap ammo can’t melt it down, you have a solid rifle. This plan has some merit, I’d say.
God i remember my 17 year old classmates tried to tell me how incredible bad this gun is....i just thought how do you even know youre a kid in school ?
funny, the G36 is such a great service rifle, especially for a conscripts army like the Bundeswehr was
you can teach every simple grund to easily hit at 200 meters and above, which is pretty impressive
@@Markus-zb5zd youre probably right but i think a kid that read an article about the gun knows best ;D
Armchair generals or keyboard warriors.
@@Markus-zb5zd In which universe does the Bundeswehr shoot decent at 200m plus?
Police and even civil Sports shooters outperform them regularly,and im not even talking about the swiss....who have far higher requirements
@@NashmanNash that's the point, you shoot so much ammo in a short time when you cover on a rolling retreat.
And in that case a lighter weapon is worth a lot more
Hk has a pretty great track record of producing firearms that are near, or actually the "gold standard"
They even go about fixing junk produced by other groups, like the L85.
Hk is good.
Don't forget the M16... Not that it really needed significant fixing but the HK416 is a beautiful improvement inside and out.
Love this. Reminds me of Ronald H. Coase quote, “if you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything.”
I love these pet rumors about firearms. I remember Colt taking an M4 and absolutely running it until it dies. And even then it was still functioning as a bolt action rifle once the gas tube burst. Granted, the updated heavier barrel lasted longer before TOTAL failure. But both rifles stood up to the standard load out of even an M249 fired as quickly as they could change mags. No breaks, no cleaning, no mercy. Eventually even the handguards caught on fire.
But the military rumor mill is a powerful institution, the facts be damned.
AR is reliable weapon with acceptable accuracy, AK is reliable weapon with acceptable accuracy, G36 is reliable weapon with acceptable accuracy, SCAR is reliable weapon with acceptable accuracy, and L85 is..... L85.
@@zacharyrollick6169 The A2 is too, after HK did a little work.
Yeah but I know a guy who knows a guy and that guy's friend's brother said.....
In german we say they search for the "Eierlegende Wollmilchsau" the
egg-laying wool milk sow
...that you can ride, right? This is a critical feature that cannot be compromised, just like the others.
@@adm0iii with enough beer in the belly...
😂😂😂
Junkers Ju-88 in all its various versions.
Can I get the enunciation for that? I want to start saying it
German dude: I can't hit anyone with these optical sights. This rifle is shit.
His Great Grandfather, who probably charged trenches with pistol & knifes:
*Shame*
@@KillyBilly141 An incompetent worker will get sanctioned, demoted, or fired.
An incompetent bureaucrat will get promoted.
@@kavky yeah we did the same with our drugminister she was bullshit now we votet her into the European Union thats how we get rid of politicians that are shitty
Jan Tschierschky err, you're supposed to say they're the cream of society.
To be fair: back in the day, the average German service-soldier fired like three shots during his carreer. I hope it got better with the shift to a professional army, but the Bundeswehr is notoriously stingy with its bullets. And like with everything, practice makes perfect.
"I obviously hit him because ... I'm great"
Wouldn't it be hilarious if somebody started this "controversy" as a way to hurt HK and it ended with HK winning a contract to re-equip the whole Bundeswehr with ANOTHER HK rifle?
*Old white guy with a stand-up chessboard:*
O U T S T A N D I N G M O V E
@@cptTK421 Or maybe - *puts on tinfoil hat - HK started the shitstorm in the first place to get a new contract and gain a lot of revenue?
@Grant Googly Moogly A standard troop issue G36 came for less than 1000 Euros. I did my service with a G3, they had not enough money to have these in basic training.
I heard somebody at HK stating that their main revenue doesn't come from government contracts anymore.
@@VulpeculaJoy Would be a risky move from them.
One of the problems with the .30 Carbine in Korea was that the powder & (especially) the primers were temperature sensitive and didn't always fare well in Korea's frigid temperatures, and, yes, there was a lot of "I shot him over & over again!" when a more accurate statement would've been "I shot AT him over & over again!" There's a lot of that going on with the 5.56 too.
I have used the G36 for almost fifteen years and I really dont like it, but your fairness on this issue is something to thank you for, Ian.
@@SpikeVike27 because after 2-3 Magazines you can not hit a target at 200m. I hated it too. Dont get me wrong, the G36 has LASER accuracy and a very low recoil. But after some shots, meh. Me and my comrades always joked that the barrel is made of lead.
@@SpikeVike27 I use the Spanish Army version, without bipod and with long barrel. Its heavy, more so if you put HK made accesories, like Picatiny Rails and the cumbersome grenade launcher, it is bulky, not so ergonomic, the optical sight hardly retain zero after some time, the magazines are fragile and too big, and their pegs break, the backup sight in the carry handle is useless, the stocks break also, and I have never shot more than 150 rounds with standard issue ammo and not have a malfunction. For the rest the rifle is fine, cheap and easy to maintain.
Stannan I shot way over 150 rounds never had a malfunction the G36 is extremely ergonomic the sight is great but yes the magazine’s are fragile only downside. its superior to every rifle excluding the 416 platform I ever shot and I shot pretty much every major service rifle and many in combat
@@Furri1bia
I can't see how the G36 would be prone to any malfunctions. Accuracy and shift of impact aside, I have always considered it to be darn reliable.
All the other issues can be solved with a different setup.
There is a modified bolt release and a modified magrelease available. With both of these equipped, I consider the ergonomics superior to the AR for example. I didn't liked the standard optics, so I went for a pic rail and after market optic.
I have ditched the transparent HK magazines with couplers for Magpul G36 mags, which are slim,light and durable.
The G36 in it's basic configuration is just a package to hand out to the average Joe Schmoe.
Sympathy. I carried an M-16 of various models in the US Army and always hated it. Doesn't make it inherently good or bad, but if I had a choice, I'd carry damn near anything else.
Well, that settles it.
I'm gold plating my issue M4.
And to think I laughed at all the gold Warsaw Pact weapons we confiscated. Little did we know that was Heat Proofing worthy of a NASA reentry vehicle
The plural of “anecdote” is not “data”
anecdata?
Stolen.
@@zenchiro6033 That saying is as old as dirt.
That's exactly how data works
A single data point is irrelevant, but add multiple data points and suddenly you can see patterns
@@dustinjames1268 but an anecdote is still not a datapoint.
I like Ian's train of thought on this. A well balanced view and interpretation.
Finaly a professional talks about this.
As a german I have articles after articles talking about the G36 overheating on one side and I have friends who actualy go to the bundeswehr and they swear on the G36 being the best assult rifle in the world (Although they didnt shoot them much since they were never in frontline service and they never dumped mags down range ether) on the other side.
No matter what you say you are my best source so I will belive you.
I was in the Bundeswehr and we dumped a shit ton of ammunition at once, because there was a lot left. 5 mags fullauto and the accuracy was still there, so ....
"Every firearm design is a balance of compromises."
HK Motto: No compromises!
And here I thought HKs motto was : "Because you suck, and we hate you."
The heckler and coke G11
Peace creating pipes of the pops
We trust in the gospel of gun jesus. As the disciples we don't question the word he has spoken.
QUESTIONS?? Has he ever bought a dead gun back to life, Has he ever turned water into gun lubricant or gun cleaning solution?? Loooove his videos!!!!
Gospel of the Gun Jesus?! 😂😂😂😂 You're actually spot on! 👌 He's wise like Jesus, and he definitely has the look. Could this be?....Naaawwww... not the second coming? Or is it?! 🙏🤔
They hated Gun Jesus for he told them the truth
Gun jesus🤣🤣
Amen
"My rifle is broken! I can't hit anything! It's the rifle's fault I failed the qualification!" yells a random soldier in frustration during training.
"Ok, let me shoot it." replies another soldier. Fires rifle.... "Well I just shot a 35/40 on the qualification range with your 'broken rifle'. I don't think it's the rifle...."
Random soldier looks upset their 'awesomeness' was questioned.
Not that this has ever happened....
Nooo, that would never happen, not at all...
Isn't there a clint eastwood movie where that happens?
@@Hubert_Cumberdale_ pretty sure that's a scene in Heartbreak Ridge
Every rangeday with cherries ever...
@@norwegianwiking, it is! :oD
9:10 you just destroyed their marketing slogan of “no compromise,” with “HK made a compromise.”
Shhhhh. Fanboys here. They'll hear you...
Realty will do that to marketing...
Well any product that states "no compromise" is a lie as any engineer will tell you.
If every criteria made was fulfilled than they hadn't done any compromise. Easy as that. What Ian stated was more like a "What COULD be possible" not "What was requested".
Meeting criteria =/= no compromise though. You tailor a design to what you want it to do by giving up one aspect for another.
Ready for some more anecdotal ecidence? Here we go: I work in german government and do privisioning/sourcing/aquisition (don't know the correct collocation there) of stuff. I need to deal with political and economic interferences of people who are not qualified to do anything really all day. I think you described the issue quite accurately
Uploaded 12 seconds ago... Well, I'm off to a good start this morning!
Comment written 12 minutes ago
This may be a ruse, they should just adopt STG 44’s. I hear they are on the cutting edge of firearms technology.
Real soldiers like their barrels curvy!
You see those soldiers from Deutschland? They've got curved barrels. Curved. Barrels.
@@petershoaf1356 And that even without factory involvement^^
@@petershoaf1356 and the price for the best comment of the day goes to:...
Firearms issue between manufacturer and government...never...no way!!!
SA-80: Hold my tea cup.
Though to be fair, HK has 2 pretty good alternatives on offer. And I have a feeling the government is trying to help HK with sales.
Team Paulie the funniest thing about comparing it with the SA80 is that the much better L85A2 was the results of fixes by HK.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA80#A2_upgrade_programme
and with the SA-80 government was both manufacturer and... government.
this started stronger then I managed to finish it.
@@drofseh the real funny thing about comparing the G36 to the SA80 is that they're both basically modified copies of Stoners' AR-180 design...
There’s no such thing as an SA-80 it was the project name for the L85 !
As always, one of the most nuanced, thoughtful, and fair, videos on the subject. Good job. :)