7:26 My theory about how Dutch got the money from Blackwater is that he buried it in his mother's grave. It would have been much easier for a single person to sneak in, get the money under the cover of darkness, and get away. I think he met with Micah afterward to kill him and take over his gang.
@@shashigobozi5442 The game tells you that Dutch just arrived at Micah's hideout recently. When Micah comes out the shed he says something to the effect of "all sorts of folks are making social calls" meanin that Dutch just recently got there under the pretense of an alliance. However when you ask Dutch what he's doing there directly he replies "same as you i suppose" meanming he was gonna kill Micah with or without you being there.
We are missing the point. Dutch's motives were not the money. He didn't like the fact that times were changing. Dutch could never be a farmer or a shop keeper. He makes statements throughout the whole game confirming that like outlaws for life etc. Dutch was in love with that kind of life. He would never leave it. So he tried selling his gang a fairy tale. Something for them to look forward to in order to have them with him and to continue to live his dream until it killed him. It was never about the money. His story is a classic example of someone who can not accept that times passed him. He couldn't accept change. Remember his words on RDR1 before his suicide. Arthur saw through him in the end. Hosea too, but I think he was too scared to question and oppose him. Dutch was not a bad person. He was just a dinosaur refusing to die. In the end it drove him crazy, leading him to bad decisions. As for Marston... He couldn't buy the farm with a fake name in papers. It was part of his whole try to change, be honest and please Abigail. Even if that meant trouble in longterms
Dude did you even play the game? John, Sadie and Charles literally killed a man in broad daylight in Strawberry with a crowd watching. Sadie calls John by name several times during this murder. Ross would have investigated this after hearing it was a gang related killing and questioned people who gave a description that perfectly matched John Marston along with other former gang members. I mean John isn’t exactly a common looking man. All you have to say to Ross is “A man with scars on his face, with a raspy voice and I heard the woman call him John” Literally who else fits that description in Ross’s head besides John Marston? Everything is explained in the final cutscene if you just pay attention. Ross and Fordham find the Mount Hagen massacre right after learning John killed a man not too far from Mount Hagen. (A man I will remind you is associated with Micah Belle, the dangerous former Van Der Linde gang member that Ross knew was a snitch and who might have still been working with them to set up Dutch). After that, they start trying to locate former gang members and Pearson and Tilly are obviously the easiest ones to find because they are literally using their real names. Tilly may have not talked so easily though she might have. However, Pearson I feel like would be very easy to break with simple threats of prison or death. And let’s not forget John told BOTH of them that he was staying at Beechers Hope. And he said “Beechers Hope” he didn’t just say “oh i’m saying in a ranch now” no he describes where he’s at and names the place. Pretty much the perfect set up for the feds to track John and then RDR1 starts. It’s also not really known how much time passes in that little montage of Ross and Fordham finding evidence. From the time of him finding the Mount Hagen massacre to him finding Beechers Hope could have been the span of a few years dude. Could’ve been from 1907-1909 or even 1910 or early 1911, a few months before the events of RDR1.
The pinkertons wanted Dutch. Plain and simply. Micah was setting dutch up for them to get him. John shows up first and the pinkertons find their rat dead. They then chase after the next surviving membrr of the gang to hunt down dutch and john would be easist to find
Wrong. How do you think they knew it was John that killed Micah? And not Dutch or Sadie? If anything when Ross finds Micah dead he would think Dutch killed him and took his money
@@shinrugal well that's possible. I'm just used to people acting like they had DNA to prove it was John that killed Micah. When in reality Ross and Fordham would have thought Dutch killed Micah since Micah had Dutch there to set him up.
@@shinrugal people don't seem to realize that John didn't get raided by the FBI until 4 years after killing Micah and the FBI thought Dutch had died in a bank robbery in 1908.
Pretty simple how they found John. John, Sadie and Charles executed Cleet in town Strawberry with a crowd watching. John was addressed by name several times. Ross, who has been looking for VDL members for 8 years, shows up to investigate Cleet’s death. As soon as they tell him it was a man named John with scars on his face he knew right away it was John Marston. With Cleet being affiliated with Micah it made sense. Then they follow the trail up Mount Hagen to find Micah’s dead body and it confirms at that point it was John. The cutscenes explain it from there, Ross and Fordham go around questioning people and eventually are led right to Beecher’s Hope
It makes sense that some of the gang members went on to live peaceful lives. If I’m not mistaken, Jesse James’ brother Frank retired from bank robbing and lived into his 70’s.
We’re talking plot-holes in a game where you can run around, absorbing bullets and lay head-shots into enemies at will. And completely heal yourself and get back into action by gnawing on some big game meat seasoned with thyme. But, maybe that’s why Ross targeted John. A legit badass MFer trying to go straight. Ross saw a guy able to take out Javier, Bill and Dutch and do their job for them. John was just stupid enough to be found.
The Pinkerton’s didn’t know who John was. They make that clear in chapter 3. Micah was leading them to Dutch on that Mountain, hence they were there and then they followed John once he killed the rat. Though why they didn’t just nab Dutchy is another story.
The cornwall train heist wasnt a fortune, when you get to clemens point you talk to hosea about how he was only able to get under 1k for the bonds because they were so hot and the blackwater money wasnt retrievable either. Maybe after the Valentine bank robbery it could be said they had some cash to go but certainly nothing up until that point.
I believe the Pinkertons didn't know who john was until the micah incident because they had tabs on him. After that point they started watching John and building the case and by rdr1 they had enough but wanted him to finish the job
The Timeline of John getting caught was easy as he didn't hide his identity and Micah's death was a big deal because he was the most psychopathic gang member and Agent Ross used John so that his hands don't get dirty, when dutch died Ross shot dutch with john's gun so that he could say john killed him and as john was having clean sheet at that time because of helping Government Ross can't kill him so he may have proven that John is bad person and is killing people and got him killed
I enjoyed your take on everything. I chalk John's abandonment of his Jim Milton name is him being an idiot. He was never a great thinker he was known for his endurance and fighting skills. The cat was out of the bag and he had to run with his real name for the rest of the game. As far as the Pinkertons are concerned they were nothing more than a plot device the entire game. I feel they could have been used much better as well.
First one just isn’t a plot hole at all they didn’t even know who John was too begin with so the women, children and cooks etc just would not have been known or given a crap about too be honest.
If u choose the go back to the mony when u take the caps whole fund it around 40 k and dutch who had many of his men kiled i think 40k at this time was enough to bribe a captain and get u to the Caribbeans not tooo far
They left the Blackwater money in Blackwater. So they didn't have that money to go off of. The Saint Denis money was lost in the shipwreck.
Yea sometimes I wonder did these RUclipsrs even play the game lol
7:26 My theory about how Dutch got the money from Blackwater is that he buried it in his mother's grave. It would have been much easier for a single person to sneak in, get the money under the cover of darkness, and get away. I think he met with Micah afterward to kill him and take over his gang.
Himmmmm intreasting
@@shashigobozi5442 The game tells you that Dutch just arrived at Micah's hideout recently. When Micah comes out the shed he says something to the effect of "all sorts of folks are making social calls" meanin that Dutch just recently got there under the pretense of an alliance. However when you ask Dutch what he's doing there directly he replies "same as you i suppose" meanming he was gonna kill Micah with or without you being there.
With the amount of money and gold Arthur gets through treasure maps and such…they could have gone to Tahiti and back several times over
We are missing the point.
Dutch's motives were not the money.
He didn't like the fact that times were changing.
Dutch could never be a farmer or a shop keeper.
He makes statements throughout the whole game confirming that like outlaws for life etc.
Dutch was in love with that kind of life. He would never leave it.
So he tried selling his gang a fairy tale. Something for them to look forward to in order to have them with him and to continue to live his dream until it killed him.
It was never about the money.
His story is a classic example of someone who can not accept that times passed him. He couldn't accept change.
Remember his words on RDR1 before his suicide.
Arthur saw through him in the end.
Hosea too, but I think he was too scared to question and oppose him.
Dutch was not a bad person.
He was just a dinosaur refusing to die.
In the end it drove him crazy, leading him to bad decisions.
As for Marston... He couldn't buy the farm with a fake name in papers.
It was part of his whole try to change, be honest and please Abigail.
Even if that meant trouble in longterms
More like it was an Addiction for Dutch.
Dude did you even play the game?
John, Sadie and Charles literally killed a man in broad daylight in Strawberry with a crowd watching. Sadie calls John by name several times during this murder.
Ross would have investigated this after hearing it was a gang related killing and questioned people who gave a description that perfectly matched John Marston along with other former gang members. I mean John isn’t exactly a common looking man. All you have to say to Ross is “A man with scars on his face, with a raspy voice and I heard the woman call him John”
Literally who else fits that description in Ross’s head besides John Marston? Everything is explained in the final cutscene if you just pay attention.
Ross and Fordham find the Mount Hagen massacre right after learning John killed a man not too far from Mount Hagen. (A man I will remind you is associated with Micah Belle, the dangerous former Van Der Linde gang member that Ross knew was a snitch and who might have still been working with them to set up Dutch). After that, they start trying to locate former gang members and Pearson and Tilly are obviously the easiest ones to find because they are literally using their real names. Tilly may have not talked so easily though she might have. However, Pearson I feel like would be very easy to break with simple threats of prison or death. And let’s not forget John told BOTH of them that he was staying at Beechers Hope. And he said “Beechers Hope” he didn’t just say “oh i’m saying in a ranch now” no he describes where he’s at and names the place.
Pretty much the perfect set up for the feds to track John and then RDR1 starts.
It’s also not really known how much time passes in that little montage of Ross and Fordham finding evidence. From the time of him finding the Mount Hagen massacre to him finding Beechers Hope could have been the span of a few years dude. Could’ve been from 1907-1909 or even 1910 or early 1911, a few months before the events of RDR1.
The pinkertons wanted Dutch. Plain and simply. Micah was setting dutch up for them to get him. John shows up first and the pinkertons find their rat dead. They then chase after the next surviving membrr of the gang to hunt down dutch and john would be easist to find
Wrong. How do you think they knew it was John that killed Micah? And not Dutch or Sadie? If anything when Ross finds Micah dead he would think Dutch killed him and took his money
@@jessebailey5962 They didn't know who killed him. So, they went to the one gang member they knew they could get to track him down.
@@shinrugal well that's possible. I'm just used to people acting like they had DNA to prove it was John that killed Micah. When in reality Ross and Fordham would have thought Dutch killed Micah since Micah had Dutch there to set him up.
@@shinrugal people don't seem to realize that John didn't get raided by the FBI until 4 years after killing Micah and the FBI thought Dutch had died in a bank robbery in 1908.
Pretty simple how they found John.
John, Sadie and Charles executed Cleet in town Strawberry with a crowd watching. John was addressed by name several times. Ross, who has been looking for VDL members for 8 years, shows up to investigate Cleet’s death. As soon as they tell him it was a man named John with scars on his face he knew right away it was John Marston. With Cleet being affiliated with Micah it made sense. Then they follow the trail up Mount Hagen to find Micah’s dead body and it confirms at that point it was John. The cutscenes explain it from there, Ross and Fordham go around questioning people and eventually are led right to Beecher’s Hope
I can’t trust the videos that say Saint Denis rather than san deni
lol
I can’t trust AI period
It makes sense that some of the gang members went on to live peaceful lives. If I’m not mistaken, Jesse James’ brother Frank retired from bank robbing and lived into his 70’s.
They had many chances to be Tahitian mango farmers.
We’re talking plot-holes in a game where you can run around, absorbing bullets and lay head-shots into enemies at will. And completely heal yourself and get back into action by gnawing on some big game meat seasoned with thyme. But, maybe that’s why Ross targeted John. A legit badass MFer trying to go straight. Ross saw a guy able to take out Javier, Bill and Dutch and do their job for them. John was just stupid enough to be found.
Don't forget Arthur and Sadie got John out of a federal prison too. I think the pinkertons could smell John from miles away.
The Pinkerton’s didn’t know who John was. They make that clear in chapter 3. Micah was leading them to Dutch on that Mountain, hence they were there and then they followed John once he killed the rat. Though why they didn’t just nab Dutchy is another story.
They did know he was literally in a state penitentiary.
The cornwall train heist wasnt a fortune, when you get to clemens point you talk to hosea about how he was only able to get under 1k for the bonds because they were so hot and the blackwater money wasnt retrievable either. Maybe after the Valentine bank robbery it could be said they had some cash to go but certainly nothing up until that point.
Pinkertons knew about John because 1 of the 1's that you refer to as Support Members snitched, or Dutch Himself had someone give them said Info.
I believe the Pinkertons didn't know who john was until the micah incident because they had tabs on him. After that point they started watching John and building the case and by rdr1 they had enough but wanted him to finish the job
The Timeline of John getting caught was easy as he didn't hide his identity and Micah's death was a big deal because he was the most psychopathic gang member and Agent Ross used John so that his hands don't get dirty, when dutch died Ross shot dutch with john's gun so that he could say john killed him and as john was having clean sheet at that time because of helping Government Ross can't kill him so he may have proven that John is bad person and is killing people and got him killed
I dig this video because I had a lot of questions myself
I enjoyed your take on everything. I chalk John's abandonment of his Jim Milton name is him being an idiot. He was never a great thinker he was known for his endurance and fighting skills. The cat was out of the bag and he had to run with his real name for the rest of the game. As far as the Pinkertons are concerned they were nothing more than a plot device the entire game. I feel they could have been used much better as well.
You do know that they didn’t get the money out if Blackwater, and that the St Denis job was a total failure, right?
I think Canada was possible cause when they fled to the grizzlies they could’ve stayed there for a few weeks the go to Canada
Thumbs down for the use of AI. Lame dude.
First one just isn’t a plot hole at all they didn’t even know who John was too begin with so the women, children and cooks etc just would not have been known or given a crap about too be honest.
... Stop telling me to think about it. Just tell me.
And dont say Dennis...
If u choose the go back to the mony when u take the caps whole fund it around 40 k and dutch who had many of his men kiled i think 40k at this time was enough to bribe a captain and get u to the Caribbeans not tooo far
This is good one I thought the same.
I’d like to subscribe and stuff I mean I did, but can you do without the AI voice and just use your own voice?
Pretty sure the whole script was made by chatgpt. It sounds like straight up fanfiction in some places.
@ specially when the voice keeps saying the van der Lin gang wrong lol
I REALLY wish I could give this video more than 1 thumb down