If you look at the stats. This springbok team scored more backline tries than forward tries over the last 4 yrs.This just shows you how versatile they've become. Wasn't rugby always about grinding up front and tiring your opponents, and when this happen, you play for the space. We as springboks struggled to finish when we had the chance, but oh boy do we like scoring those tries out wide now
@@DM-rp9ikit's worth remembering that RWCs exist in legend, while the Rugby Championship and Six Nations only exist on Wikipedia. The most casual rugby fan will be able to tell you who won in 1995, or 2011, but only the most committed student of the sport will be able to tell you, without using Wikipedia, who won the Rugby Championship in 2017. So I'm glad the ABs win lots of RC trophies, but the Boks have won 4 RWCs from 8 entries, while the ABs have won 3 from 10. That is what legend will remember.
@kevinewert8546 but it shows a problem if the Boks don't dominate the rugby championship or at least win 2/4 over the next 4 years it makes a mockery sport.
The Springboks won four out of eight tournaments that they played. During that same period the Allblacks won two, the Australians one and England one. That should more or less any argument to who is the best rugby team in the world.
You do realize South Africa was involved in the 3 best games of the world cup. vs France, Ireland and NZ, all the while playing different strategies in each game. That's next level.
Sorry, you left the door open for that one. All on good fun. It's gonna be interesting to see Razor against Rasie. Razor's got the dance moves for sure.
The boks won a world cup without 4 main players "De Jager, Malcom, Mapimpi and Lukanya". In 2015 the index between NZ and Ireland at 4th was daylight. The game has moved on because of the introduction of new rules as a resul Tier 1 teams have become much stronger and the games less one-sided than before.
@@ChristopherHitchens3.14 The 2023 All Blacks is nowhere near is good as the 2015 team and yet they almost won the World Cup with 14 men. It's safe to say that the 2015 All Blacks team would absolutely demolish the current top 4.
Fair point about 2015 AB team. But....how strong were the rest at that stage? Irish, French etc then compared to now? I would say that the top 6 teams now are far stronger than in 2015.
Given some respect to Northern Hemisphere now that it suits your comment.. Why I say this is because not one respected comment from southern to Northern have I heard till now..
I can't agree with Brian, even as an Ireland fan. The current SA team played amazing rugby, and look at the tactical choices they made in every game, Rassie had everyone bamboozled. As amazing as the 2015 New Zealand team were, if they had to face the current Boks side, the Boks side would find a way to win BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THEY DO.
The whole tournament boks were great. Played most games perfectly to plan. Boks were great in the Final too. Defense was brilliant. We're great in my opinion against France even though France dominated most of the game. They were great against Ireland, Scotland, not so much against England but we're good against the all blacks too. Especially in the early moments. In the last couple of minutes they held new Zealand back and it looked at times like the all blacks were running into brick walls. But because the boks don't play the "basketball rugby" therefore they won't really get the credit they deserve. The 2015 all blacks team were obviously amazing but this boks team is more than just pretty rugby. Or best rugby. Ireland played their best rugby yet look what it brought them? So sometimes you need more. I'll probably put those 2 teams current boks and 2015 equal. But if I had to choose I'll probably go boks.
They didn't bamboozled Ireland do.. So his strategy didn't all go to plan.. NZ back then didn't lose any games.. South Africa lost pool games in both world cups
@@patrickkelly4506 Correct, but the competition NZ faced were way way weaker on their way there. Lmao, when has a team had to have Ireland, Scotland and Samoa in their pool just to get started? South Africa had to face the entire top 5, and let's face it Ireland just barely beat us without our best kicker. So Ireland's best team ever could only score a single try against us. That NZ team also had a home 2011 cup and Bryce Lawrence purposely cheated us out the world cup, texts came out after the tournament that revealed he planned on cheating. Lmao, this springboks team are undisputed and both their victories were away from home. People love letting their emotions get in the way of facts.
@@zombievikinggaming4258 This conversation is about back to back world cups, so try to keep up. South Africa won 2 world cups back to back away from home. NZ had to get Bryce Lawrence to help them in 2011, go watch that farcical game. Also how the final between NZ and France went, they blatantly only reffed France at the breakdown and let NZ do whatever the hell they wanted. Most stolen world cup ever. Compared to the 2023 final NZ could have won had they only nailed 1 of their missed kicks. So by that logic alone the refereeing was fairer. NZ went back to back against far easier opposition and 2011 was at home. So yes, the South African back to back run is far more impressive. 1995 is an entirely separate conversation.
What many people don't fully appreciate about this Bok team is that they can do the "grind" game better than anyone but they now also have the ability to "razzle dazzle" .... think we will see them grow that part of the game even more in the next 4 years ...
Springboks have always had the ability to razzle dazzle. There's a video on RUclips that shows the Springbok's 2007 RWC tries. Trust me you won't believe your eyes. Springboks used to razzle dazzle even before then back in the late nineties. The only thing that changed is that the level of coaching and systems just went up a notch when Rassie came in. As well as Daan Human, whi wss scrum coach at the Bulls. During that period the scrum never went backward so he bacame a consultant before getting a full-time job at the Springboks. People might not know this but he's very key, much like all the other coaches are.
People forget that the 2015 All Blacks beat SA by only 2 points in the semi final, and they thrashed a lucky Australian tema (they reached the final by getting a penalty against Scotland in the final minute and in a time when Australia was dominated by New Zealand
Congrats to the springboks won a semi and a final without playing any rugby.. Got to give it to a team that is happy to give the ball back to the opposition and wait on refs calls to assist.
@@maffrose thanks for that, it takes a special team to achieve such heights. Just don't forget England kicked away 95% of their possesion, and made one run at the Boks in the final moments when they had to. New Zealand kicked away 62% of their possession, amere 13% less than South Africa. Perhaps you need to pay closer attention to what actually happens on the field of play. Just as an example South Africa scored 4 tries vs France, the most they have conceded in a very long time 😉
@@sammorgan111 Ireland are hardly a world cup threat, they never make it passed the quarters. The boks used them to set up their game plan, and it worked out perfectly. zazazazazaza
@@sammorgan111 Boks were just playing with their food in that game. No real peril losing against Ireland so SA still experimenting at that stage. And tbh I wouldn't sing Ireland's praises too loudly - biggest chokers of all time.
Not singing irelands praises. But if Ireland are that terrible the so called best team ever should not of lost to them. You just ruined your own argument. So 2015 Ab still greatest team ever. Congratulations on the 4 time Champs though very well earned!
Achieving success against the world's top five rugby teams requires more than just an emphasis on playing beautiful rugby. It demands a strategic approach, necessitating a team with exceptional skills, physical conditioning, and unwavering determination. In the process, one must carefully evaluate scenario-based questions within their specific contexts. Ironically, Ireland, in their pursuit of attractive rugby, suffered defeat and another quarter-final exit. New Zealand's defeat can, in part, be attributed to their extensive use of ball-in-hand play, while South Africa opted for a more conservative approach due to their lead. It's important to remember that when you aggressively attack the game, you expose yourself to the inherent risk of a counter-attack.
All blacks 2015 is by far the greatest ever. There stats from 2011-2015 says it all. No other team in history have more wins than the All Blacks. 77% wins since 1903. Record wins over top tier nations. Vs Sth Africa 57-0 Vs Ireland 60-0 Vs England 64-22 Vs Wales 55-3 Vs Scotland 69-20 Vs France 62-13 Vs Australia 57-22 Vs Italy 101-3
In the last 15 Bok matches they won 13 and lost 2. Beat ITA BY 42 Beat Aus by 31 Beat NZ by 28 Beat Wal by 28 Beat Eng twice Beat France Played world number 1,2,4,5 & 6 to reach the WC final and then still found a way to win the World Cup. Previously Irish pundits said they were lucky to beat the Boks at the World Cup with no recognised kicker. If Pollard was playing it was game over. They spoke about that last-minute maul could have been a penalty or penalty try. But it wasn't to be and the Irish won "with their style of rugby". I rate the 2015 NZ team but I think this Bok squad would find the way to beat them. Probably by 1pt. Time to give credit where credit is due. Some say that last year's World Player of the Year should have been Ardie Savea and not JVDF. Ardie would have back-to-back World Player of the Year awards now.
The 2015 All Black team won more games. From 2011 to 2015 the All Blacks only lost 3 games. That is 92% win rate.No Rugby country has better win rate. 2023 All Blacks were not great team.Foster win rate was only 70%. Which not good for All Black team.But this team only lost by single point to the Springboks. Lol that was with 14 players and TMO guy from HELL!!
It’s Pollard playing it wasn’t game over. Anyone who thinks that doesn’t understand rugby at all. Boks were taking kicks at 50m, and couldn’t get Ireland in the corners and their mauls didn’t work against Ireland. Boks can’t seem to beat Ireland. Everything else is an excuse the same way bok fans say Ireland can’t get past a Q and everything we say is an excuse. You can’t have it both ways!
The 2015 Graham Henry All Blacks dominated world rugby and rightly so they were brilliant. It's not SA's fault that a NZ player got a red card. Boks have been on the receiving end of those before many times. People tend to forget that the Boks had 2 yellow cards in that match as well so for 20min so it was 14 vs 14. We could have lost that match NZ played out of their skin. Respect to them
My point was if Pollard had to take those kicks Mannie missed he probably would have got them over. That last maul could have been a penalty try for collapsing or at least a penalty. Ireland won in the end, I have no issues with that and they play a good style of rugby. They will get QF monkey off their back next WC they have the talent.
@@fibbernatchie I get what you're saying but there's no guarantee he would have from that distance & you have to remember, Ireland pretty much turned down every kickable penalty for the corner. I think there were 5 in the first 30 odd minutes alone and Sexton went to the corner each time and for someone like him, those are slotted over at ease (15 points left aside). I think Ireland are as good as SA, NZ and FR but on the day any of these teams can win BUT I do feel that SA are the best of those 4 since they played 4 and won 3 on the way to the cup so I tip my hat off. Loved seeing the SA fans around the country happy and what that will do for the sports in the townships there. You really are only at the beginning of what I see as SA dominance for a while. Ireland are also only at the start of something special, the sport is growing fast here (its 4th behind Gaelic football, soccer, hurling and then rugby). But we have imbedded academies and a system that seems to be serving us a conveyor belt of upcoming stars. If that continues then I hope we are at the top table for the next decade along with SA, FR and NZ (altho I worry for NZ).
Hilarious ………. It does not matter what anyone says regardless of the legendary 2015 AB’s or 2023 Boks. The fact is South Africa needs to build a bigger Trophy cabinet and Ireland can play beautiful rugby to win their next pool games
😂😂😂How many teams would probably that play "beautiful rugby" would swap places with boks right now? I yes we love rugby that's pleasing to the eye but sometimes it doesn't win you anything. Sometimes you need grind it out even if you play poor. Which the boks have know how to do. They can play running rugby if they want. They've proven that many times. People just hold to the notion that the boks can only play one style and that's it.
Firstly, Brian is a legend - the real World Cup final in 2015 was the semi between SA and NZ and 2 points separated the two teams - this SA outfit is a much much better one than the 2015 SA team. Therefore I do believe that the SA team of 2023 would dismantle NZ of 2015
It's hard to argue against that AB's 2015 team, they really were special! The Boks are on the beginning of a great journey - having finally rebooted their entire system (thanks to THAT AB shellacking) after decades of terminal illness. Rassie & Jacques helped kick start the thing & the feeling is it will only improve.
Yes 2015 All blacks won rigged final in 2011 and only beat boks by 2 pionts in semi final 2015 plus richy Mccaw biggest cheater in rugby history cheated in every ruck and maul he ever entered 😂😂😂
@@daggaboom true and Schalk burger tried but got yellow carded for same things richy mccaw got away with which give All blacks and crusaders big advantage
@@theofilusbouwer3430 would you complain much if we were the better cheats? McCaw is a helluva competitor and I can’t hate on a guy for that. Was a pleasure and infuriating to play against them.
It’s crazy to think that in less than a decade you can’t even compare the styles of the two GOAT teams because of how different the game is. I’m talking reffing of the breakdown, 50:22’s, tackle rules the list goes on. If it was the space jam scenario though I’d have to go with the Kiwis from 2015.
The problem is teams trying very hard to to simulate AB 2015, the game has moved on, thanks to Rassie SA is not trying to be NZ, they are comfortable in their green and gold, Ireland crushed from their high flying horse 🤷🏾♂️
@@k.o.t.h Ireland were over buffed by the refereeing just like the boks were in that final and the game against france. Neither team is as good as people think they are. They just got extremely lucky with the officiating in multiple matches. The Ireland series in NZ a year or two back was an absolute robbery by the same official team that stole thie WC final off NZ this time. NZ were basically playing that final with their hands tied behind their backs and they still nearly won it. Absolute farce. WR hasnt put the full footage up yet either and thats because they dont want people looking through that match for all the utter BS that went on....... NZ were flat out robbed.
I think the 2015 ABs are better because they dominated in between WCs as well as at the tournament. 2023 Boks might be the best pack of all time though
@@MrJonnyl123Pieter Steph just became the best blindside of all time. The 2023 locks are better imo. Bakkies is a walking yellow card. Also the front row of the 2023 vintage is better. Back row of 2007 better overall I’d say
That is an oxymoron, Brian. The best team needs to play the 'best rugby'. The best rugby is the rugby that wins World Cups. So, therefore, this team would be considered a better team than the 2015 World Cup having beaten the tournament favourites and hosts, France and then beating the most successful Rugby team of all time in the final. They played 'the best' because they won.
I think deciding who the "best" team is a bit more nuanced than that. Lomu is regarded as the goat without ever lifting the web ellis cup. Without a doubt SA is the greatest world cup team though, but i think this title considers the seasons leading up to the world cup too
These things are fun but really impossible to say. Teams strength is both a factor of how good they are as well as the opposition. Although they beat most opponents in that World Cup pretty easily it was actually a 2 point game against the Springboks (the same team that lost against Japan.) As South African fan I have to admit that 2015 era All Blacks were amazing especially on individual player level. This Springbok group though has something else as far as a team squad (not only the 15 on the field) - and sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
The big difference 2015 All Blacks proved they were best. The All Blacks don’t go on holiday for another four years. The All Blacks keep on winning. Great teams keep it going.
You keep your best team theories, hey you can even keep the awards, team of the tournament and take the number ranking. We will just rock up in 4 years time and unleash the Sjambok on y'all again
Remember New Zealand were at home for the 2011 World cup made things much easier for them. The South African teams won both world cup away from home that's got to count for something
I can make a very good case for the 2007 Boks being even better. Bakkies and Matfield in the 2nd row. John Smit and Os du Rant in the FR, Burger, Juan Smith and Roussouw in the BR and then you have Fourie de Preez at SH, De Villiers and Fourie in the centre, and Habana, JPP and Percy the back 3! And bench players like Bismarck du Plessis, Ruan Pienaar, Francois Steyn, Skinstad....
Agree, that generation might well have had more pure talent. After 2007, some others came on the scene: Msteyn, Brussow, Lambie, Andries Bekker. If you want to talk about a versatile guy who could cover multiple positions, Ruan Pienaar. Imagine they'd been managed the whole way though by Rassie and Jacques? Jake's a good coach but PDV and Heyneke Meyer towards the end didn't get the most out of that generation. With the preparation and mindset of this team, they might have also gone btb.
Tbh I can’t remember a single springbok team from 2007 up until now that wasn’t overflowing with talent. The depth of our Talent pool is unimaginable. What let us down in the past was the coaching
The individual World Cup wins for SA were better than NZ's two wins, but that New Zealand team were overall more dominant and consistent between the World Cups. NZ '15 are still no.1 but SA '23 is 2nd or 3rd at worst.
Obviously this is hypothetical, but if the 2015 AB’s played the 2023 Boks they wouldn’t have been allowed to play their beautiful rugby because they would have been under so much more pressure …
I think the fact that the Springbok team was not really given a chance and the last three games showing something more than skill more than talent makes them the GOATS. the All Blacks are like the Gypsie King we all expect him to will but when a guy shows up from MMA without a fight comes and knocks him out we all kinda look the other way. Here is to the BoKs the teams that no body can congratulate without adding a "but" the team that beat the odds the prodigal sons that made the game more than a just game. No team has ever dug so deep.
The 2015 AB's were great but at that time there wasn't 3, 4 or 5 other nations that were as strong and competitive. This SA team's path to victory in this wc is incomparable in it's difficulty & are therefore definitely a good shout as the greatest. That said, SA will frankly never get credit from especially the northern hemisphere no matter what they achieve. I'll take 4 times wc champions everyday over the opinions of "never won/ never passed a quarterfinal people."
Only reason that its competitive now is because the All Blacks have been terrible over the last 4 years. If the 2015 team played now, they would still be miles better than everyone else.
People have a lot to say about this tournament, watch Rassie come back and make it 3 for 3. Then I hope everyone will shurrup and admit the boks have something different about them. Lots of ifs and buts, but I tell you one thing you cannot deny. 1. If Pollard was fit 2. If Marx didnt get injured 3. If Lood was playing (no disrespect to Franco) 4. If Am was fit (no disrespect to Kriel) This tournament would've seen the full force of the boks and it wouldve been undeniable.
The Bokz had an exceptional WC, winning 3 consecutive knockout games by 1 was amazing and showed how heart and determination can win games, and not just who executes their strategies the best. In relation to O’driscall’s argument, 2015 ABz did play better all round rugby. In the last 2 games, Bokz only scored 1 try, couldn’t score in the final, lost their tryless final record against 14men, didn’t score any points in the 2nd half, and won by 1 against 14men for 50mins. I reckon the 2015 Bokz would beat today’s
All it proves is the officiating and rules are heavily in favour of the defensive team and it suit the boks game perfectly. Makes it so easy for them to just win games. The fact is the AB's were robbed last weekend by the match officials. If you rewatch that game the tmo's and barnes totally destroyed almost any chance of them winning that game yet they nearly did. Eben should of been carded TWICE = red card for a leading elbow on cane during a carry and the offside incident. And Bongi should of been penalized for sealing the ball off with that ridiculous leg wide open stance he did (which should be illegal in itself if player safety is really an issue as thats asking for an injury via mistake or on purpose which this clearly wasnt). Also in that incident the Ginga Bok prop comes in and forearms/elbows Frizzel in the face just prior to him clumisly landing on bongi's leg. So this incident should of been a penalty on bongi sealing the ball and then a car on the ginga prop for a forearm cleanout to the fact on frizzell. Then the game totally changes doesnt it!???
Argument could be made that this current SA squad is the best tournament team, but even then the 2015 ABs were incredible, and between the cups SA haven't been the best team (recently thats been Ireland, previously it's usually been the ABs). All a bit pointless, SA are the current champions, but will they maintain that level? Maybe, but let's see how they go for the next four years.
I feel maintaining it wont be a factor. The players are old and a few wont play in the next WC. Both Nienaber and Jones are also leaving in the coaching staff. If we can maintain it, great, but it would be a different team in both the coaching and players.
It’s ok, we’ll just have to win 3 back to back and then we can sit back and watch everyone play verbal gymnastics again to avoid giving the Boks the credit they deserve.
I think they are. Yes, I am South Africa and I am biased. But, people who don't know South African Rugby won't know our priorities when it gets to being successful in terms of winning trophies and results. We simply work in 4 year cycles. For 4 years, we build depth, we try things, we build experience, we test combinations, we are simply building towards the next world cup. Yes, we would like the win the Rugby championship, but that is not our main priority. Of course we don't go out there to lose, we want to win every game, but once again, we use lot of those matches to gain information for our next World Cup. Our main priority is always the next world cup. In 2024, our priority will be to have the best team in the world in 2027. The World Cup is literally the only trophy that unites our country and in a World Cup we are almost the finished product that we trialed for the past 4 years. In 2018, this team had a plan to win the World Cup 2023. It just happened that we won 2019. 2020 was completely written off due to South Africa's strict Covid government restrictions. They literally went into the Lions Series with limited preparation, a year behind the rest of the world and they managed to win it. Right after the Lions series, attention turned to the world cup. This team is incredible. 2 World Cups, back to back and a Lions series. Unbelievable. Now, it is time to groom the next generation. The 2015 All Black team would not stand a chance against this team. There are two ways of playing the game. This team know how to win. Luckily BOD's opinion carries no weight when it gets to our rugby.
The 2015 All Blacks team by far the better team been at the top for over a decade they were just on another level The 2023 All Blacks Team the least strongest team we have fielded compared to past teams with 14 man down came within one score of beating a team with the much vaunted "bomb squad" kept them scoreless for the entire 2nd half if the springboks were down to 14 men for nearly an hour do you think they would cope? I don't think so.
Sure they would because they had the benefit of analyzing the ABs and devising a defensive strategy to do that. If both teams had the benefit of watching the other, coin toss. I'm only saying this because no team so far REALLY found a consistent way past this Bok defense, especially the 2019 world cup one
What people actually forget lots of the teams are more professional and a lot stronger than when the All Blacks were so dominant. Rugby change through the years
Its such a shame that the Boks get no credit for their incredible innovation and have won 50% of all the world cup tournaments they've been a part of. It's really just a shame...
It's weird how the Irish pundits still find ways to chuck an Irish perspective even when talking about the greatest rugby teams in the history of the game.
The 2023 Springboks team is the best defensive team there has ever been. They always win when it matters most. The 2015 ABs were probably the best attacking team with Carter being a remarkable kicker too... but I believe a good defense beat a good attack any day. Look back at the final, South Africa couldnt get any of their set pieces to be a weapon - and still won!
I gotta agree with ghost: yes this Boks team has an insane defense, but they allowed a try to the present day all blacks, I’m pretty sure Carter and all the weapons that the 2015 team had that it would find a way.
@@mainstream180, hardly the boks's fault that the ABs played with 14men... Besides, with todays TMOs and refs the ABs would have had a few more in the bin... Looking at SBW's upright tackles, not to mention Jerome Kaino and maybe even Savea (against Kolbe or Arendse) and Nonu? Not having Ardie on the field would make things a tad easier against the 2015. Kieran Read was good too... Buy not Ardie good... Richie wasnt that great in 2015... his best days were behind him.
@@wesselbadenhorst6030 I have to respectfully disagree with you on how good Read was. He won the same award that Ardie just won. As for Richie, the man was still the worlds best no. 7 even in 2015. I’m not taking anything away from the 2023 Boks, you don’t win a World Cup based on pure luck, they are a dominant side. But they beat an All Blacks team that was missing some of its best players before the World Cup and lost to an All Blacks team that was had a lot of questions surrounding it. They also were one conversion or penalty away from possibly losing this World Cup. If the game was close I just can’t believe that Carter wouldn’t have made a drop goal to seal the deal, like he proved he could. But once again, this is a dominant SA side and it should be feared. I also would not be surprised if they 3-peat.
@@wesselbadenhorst6030yet this bok team beat a 14 man all blacks side by 1 point. An all blacks side mind you who would get absolutely demolished by 20 by the 2015 team.
That 2015 NZ team looked amazing because the rest of the field were rubbish. Only SA were a challenge, whom they only narrowly beat 20-18 in the Semi's. They crushed France 62-13 in the Quarters, and Australia 34-17 in the Finals. They had an easy Pool compared to SA once again. SA scored more points in the Pool stages than NZ, 176-141. So if you Put 2015 NZ up against 2023 Springboks, the Boks win every single day of the week. WITH OUT A DOUBT.
Not forgetting that going into this world cup, Ireland considered themselves the best team in the world. Everyone thinks they're the best for different reasons.
I believe this Ireland side are a better team than SA…but came up against a laser focused AB’s in dry conditions with a ref that let the game flow. That’s a scary scenario for any team in a knockout fixture, and any team can win on the day. As a kiwi I’ve been so impressed with Ireland the past 2 years, and amazing to watch too. A massive lost opportunity for Ireland, who clearly the world number 1 side IMO… Having said that SA are world champions and congratulations to them.
I think people need to look at the French game and realise that there was some shocking decisions that went against them and south Africa can count themselves very lucky to progress from that. Few very suspect decisions from the ref
Springboks faced the best ever Irish team… best ever French team… +Scotland + England + All Blacks. There has never been such a test in the history of the game, and never will be again.
But I find it strange that rugby is running rugby, only the are other parts off rugby tht make rugby defense, scrum ,kicking tactical tht form part off the game so you is it that other countries expect South Africa to play the same game as thm ,if we as SA decided we do not want a running game what's wrong is it not part off the rules off the game At the end it is winning games
The officiating and rules are heavily in favour of the defensive team and it suit the boks game perfectly. Makes it so easy for them to just win games. The fact is the AB's were robbed last weekend by the match officials (it actually all comes back too BILL BEAUMONT IMO!!). If you rewatch that game the tmo's and barnes totally destroyed almost any chance of them winning that game yet they nearly did. Eben alone should of been carded TWICE = red card for a leading elbow on cane during a carry and the offside incident. And Bongi should of been penalized for sealing the ball off with that ridiculous leg wide open stance he did (which should be illegal in itself if player safety is really an issue as thats asking for an injury via mistake or on purpose which this clearly wasnt). Also in that incident the Ginga Bok prop comes in and forearms/elbows Frizzel in the face just prior to him clumisly landing on bongi's leg. So this incident should of been a penalty on bongi sealing the ball and then a card on the ginga prop for a forearm cleanout to the face on frizzell. Then just on those four instances alone the game totally changes doesnt it!???
I don’t think this conversation should only revolve around the World Cup years. The 2005 NZ team that dispatched the Lions 3 times are the best team I’ve ever seen.
You can't make a team that shuts down the game the greatest of all time?! You can call them the greatest 'anti-rugby' rugby team of all time. But you have to actually 'play' to be the greatest. They won the cup, and should be happy enough with that.
I am a Bok and have to agree that 2015 AB side was just crazy man. But in terms of the Boks being boring and everyone complaining about their style of play. Totally utter Bull that back three of SA at this moment might very well stake a claim on the Back three of the AB 2015 side without a doubt. If two games can point out that the Boks can use both pack and backs 2019 WC Final and the Quarters against France 🇫🇷 .... Cheslin is so underrated, man, and I promise you Willemse and Arendse will only get better with Canan taking over the 13. The Boks can switch up their play much better than any other team in World Rugby. But no one is talking about it. The 5-3 split against France mind-blowing lol .... And it worked the fact that the Boks have so many utility backs that also indicate the talents we have. But the hate is real, man. So proud of the Boks !!!
Brian..."it could've been us" It wasn't Brian, it never has been, not even once & even worse never passed a quarterfinal. Knocked out in a quarterfinal is the worst performance for an SA team in world cups and it's Ireland's highest achievement. Frankly your opinions cannot be taken seriously considering
How does a team that scrapes through each game through grit and some very good fortune i.e. All Blacks down to 14 but only winning by one come close to the 2015 All Blacks? Remember ABs were undefeated. SA also could not beat Ireland. If by great, you mean plucky and spirited then maybe but great should mean consistently excellent. Here is just one example. The ABs put 60 on France in their 2015 quarter-final against France. SA scraped through. The match could have gone either way. Perspective, please. Well done to the 2023 SA team but let’s not delude ourselves.
You seem to conveniently forget that the BEST NZ team of all time in 2015 scraped through the RWC semi-final by 2 points against... the Springboks (who at that stage were a young, developing team). And France and most of the other teams competing in RWC2015 were very average, not like in RWC2023 where France & Ireland were way stronger than in previous years.
This is so laughable. The fullback alone the boks played in the final isnt fit hold to Ben Smiths jockstrap let alone any of the other legends in that AB 2015 team. The Bok 15 looked worse than most NZ schoolboys out there. The fact is the rules HEAVILY favour the defensive team which isnt the natural game of the AB's so they are at a huge disadvantage under the current officiating and rules. Yet they nearly beat this supposedly great bok team with 14men when both teams should of been down to 14 and while battling the ref/tmo's who might as well had springbok jerseys on. (boks should of been down to 13 imo at times as the officiating was just simply biased as hell in this game). Boks were literally handed the trophy by world rugby on a platter.
That legendary ABs team you speak of squeaked through the semis by a mere 2 points against a young, developing Springboks side. Your language is just as appalling as your inability to make sense. WR (especially Beaumont who cannot bear the fact that the Boks slaughtered his team in the tour of 1980) dislikes the Springboks intensely, so there goes that ridiculous theory of yours.
The 2015 team was great but they narrowly won the Springboks in the semi final by one or two points. The refs penalty reversal probably made the difference in that game.
No, they proved in the years between world cups they were the best with a 90% win record, Saffas cant say the same, consistency is what makes you great.
Right, and the Springboks didn't just narrowly win against a 14 man All Black side by one point? The refs mistake of penalising Ardie Savea when he was clean over the ball probably made the difference that game.
Lol Saffas spend they're 4 years trying to come up with combinations, introducing a lot of new guys. There isn't a lot of tests in a period of 4 years if you think about it.
@@JoshAce-o9c You may have a point there, kind of put a new slant on that Irish win in New Zealand, and Frankly makes one wonder how the Irish could lose to this AB team. It is also understandable why that team looms so large in BOD's mind taking into consideration that Ireland had never beaten the Abs before 2018. For South Africans, even the most fearsome ABs teams were always beatable.
As a South African, I completely agree with Brian. All Blacks of 2015, especially when you consider their winning percentage over a long period of time.
Yes it will be frustrating to think the New Zealand is the best but south africa won it back to back and still broke the rugby history to win it 4 times
What a joke. If it was Kolisi who got a red in the first half, ABs would've won by 20. The Boks barely held on playing against a 14 man squad while receiving several handouts from the ref. They weren't even the best team in their pool, let alone the tournament.
Haha gotta love all the Bokke fans trying to convince the everyone that the 2023 boks team is the best ever… The 2011-2015 All Blacks lost 5 games out of 66, Had TWO x3 time player of the year winners in Richie McCaw and Dan Carter, x1 WPoty Kieran Read & Brodie Retalick not to mention the best centre pairing ever in Maa Nonu & Conrad Smith. Julian Savea at the peak of his powers too! This Springbok team played 51 games from 2019-2023 and lost 13!! That includes both world cups btw.. I also gotta question if they had the hardest run ever.. I mean they lost against Ireland so that doesnt count does it? beat France - which WAS definitely the most impressive but then beat an England team who were bloody terrible and were expected to go out in the group stage & finally beat the worst NZ team in professional history (a 70% win rate under Foster vs 89% for the 2011-15 team). Not to mention the final was overshadowed by the ref & TMO and NZ playing 60mins with 14men. Why do you think this Springbok team arent getting huge praise OUTSIDE of South Africa? Sorry SA fans, they wont be admired as much as that 2015 Abs team. Just enjoy your world cup victory and stop trying to convince the rest of the world you’re the greatest ever 😂 ✌️
After watching this now i know why the NH wont win another WC any time soon (and why they have only won 1). The NH doesnt understand knockout games. They think its an canvas art painting contest. You guys need a reboot mentally.
In 2015, the All Blacks beat the Boks by 2 points in the semi final, which could have gone either way. They definitely didn't look better than us on that day. Difference is, South Africa now win those close games. Before 2018, we used to lose them. We only lost to Ireland in that first game, because we didn't have a kicker.
South africa won on the day. Me personally, thought it would be an Irish/France final, because the of the style of play and results. The last three games that South africa played were by won by 1 point with some dodgy ref/tmo intervention…thats the game at the end of the day. Good on South africa they had some very lucky calls that went their way but also played their guts out to win.
All it proves is the officiating and rules heavily favour the boks atm. I truly dont think this is that great a team. Rassie is the best coach going around atm for sure but this isnt the best group of players getting around by any shot of the imagination. The boks just got super lucky with the refs to the point its questionable if Barnes and those TMO's just hate NZ given their history with the AB's. (that same match official group also robbed us in the ireland series in VERY similar circumstances).
Its really gone from sad to down right ludicrous. The SA/IRE pool game was lauded by same critics as one of the best games ever, the SA/France game was one of the fastest flowing games and considered one of the best in the history of the tournament. Once by a point and you start thinking, lucky, twice, probably dodged a bullet, but three times, you just take your hat off. South African rugby has its own DNA so as fans we dont share your opinion of what constitutes great rugby. Great teams can adapt to the changes in conditions. I cant think of another team in history that has had to take this route to a final. The greatest feat to date in worldcup history. No equal. Oh and then there's 2019.
I think you have to take in context, the caliber of opposition played in the years, in the year 2015 how many really good teams where there? So yes the 2015 NZ team could play very attractive "good looking" rugby, but the opposition where not nearly as good as the opposition teams now. Now in 2023, Ireland are brilliant, France are brilliant, NZ are Brilliant. Games are harder now, more players that are great now.
the core of this bok team also won in 2019, defended the cup (both away from home) have a win percentage in world cups of 50% (ab's 30%), beat the Lions after not playing any tests for 18 months, played one of the best tests of all time against the home nation france (scoring 4 tries to 3) had the hardest run to any world cup final ever and dont forget left 11 points on the table in the game against ireland! Personally wouldve loved ireland in the final, way easier for the boks. Respect BOD as a player but what is he smoking?
The 2023 Springbok team is the greatest in terms of World Cup success, but I think the 2009 team has to be the best overall. The All Blacks and Springboks teams between 2007 and 2015 were a lot more formidable than their current counterparts.
wish i could see this game, current Springboks with all their current injured stars...Am, Marks, de Jager against that Richie McCaw team. This match would be clash of the titans for sure
World Rugby has acknowledged that Aaron Smith try should of stood according to their rules. They disallowed that try after four phases of play.Their rules state they cannot disallow try for infringement after two phases of play. The TMO interfered after four minutes of play.Nigel Owens mentioned our game cannot refereed by the TMO. We don’t want our game refereed by replay.
I would have the 2011-15 ABs way out in front by themselves...the Boks didn't dominate teams massively on the scoreboard like they did and I think in this WC the Boks rode their luck and had an unbelievelable clutch goal kicker in Pollard to get them over the line just. How can this SA team be the greatest when they lost to Ireland, but if Pollard was playing in that match they probably would have won that too.
it's like asking who's the greatest boxer Ali or Tyson or tennis player Dokovic Nadal Federer or soccer player Pe'le Maradona Messi Randalo or racing driver Schumacher Senna Hamilton or NBL player or golfer Nicklaus or Woods they all have made a impact on their sports if you go on statistics you have a winner if you go on the wealth they have made from their sports you clearly have a winner
The 2015 All Blacks did not win back to back away from home, but do we care, SA have won 50% of world Cups, NZ have won 30%. PS the AB team of 2015 beat SA by 2 pts who had a bunch of kids 8 of which have now won 2 World Cups and also a 3rd place. 🏆🏆🏆🏆🇿🇦
If you use the criteria of "playing the best rugby" or an "enjoyment point of view", then South Africa could win 10 World Cups playing the same brand of rugby and never be regarded as the best based on this criteria.
As an Irish fan I have to say Brian has failed to understand that different styles can be attractive. If we all played the same way then it would be boring. I prefer this Springbok dynamism, they actually play more varied rugby, and they tailor it to the opposition and the conditions. So yes they are the greatest.
The ABs that won back to back world cups in 2011 and 2015 were great no doubt, but they struggled to win in 2011 (at home) by 1 point in the final. A lot of people say the boks were lucky this world cup by beating teams by a single point. In 2015 there were barely 2 teams that could have won the world cup, and the AB's barely beat the boks in the semi final, the same bok team that was the laughing stock of the tournament for losing to Japan. In 2023 the competition was much more fierce, with Ireland and France arguably having their best teams of all time, and Scotland that can beat anyone on the day. The AB's also drew against the Lions in 2017, which had a lot of the 2015 squad. The current bok squad did manage to beat the Lions in 2021 (after not playing any international rugby since 2019 because of covid). Saying this current bok team is not as good as 2015 AB's because they don't play attractive rugby is just silly (They manage to evolve a lot since 2019 and played a few games with lots of flair). The only thing that the 2015 AB's did better that the current Bok squad, is they were more consistent between world cups, but they never had to face a rush defense like the boks have now, never lost a year of international rugby due to covid, nor did they need to build themselves up from the gutters like this Bok team had to, which suffered record losses constantly before Rassie and Jacques took over.
From 2011 to 2015 The All Blacks lost only three tests. Their win rate was 92%.There is not another sports team in the world that even comes close that. In 2017 the All Blacks beat South Africa 57 to nil. The historical win rate of the All Blacks over 612 tests is 77.12%. That over 120 years.
If you look at the stats. This springbok team scored more backline tries than forward tries over the last 4 yrs.This just shows you how versatile they've become. Wasn't rugby always about grinding up front and tiring your opponents, and when this happen, you play for the space. We as springboks struggled to finish when we had the chance, but oh boy do we like scoring those tries out wide now
South Africa can win the next 8 World Cups back to back and everyone will still say yeah they were lucky or yeah the AB this and that…😂😂😂
Ah, it's not that it's surely just the flaw in rugby if the back to back champions can't win one rugby championship
@DM-rp9ik bruh we lost it on PD. Realx..
It's just people's taste in the style of rugby. Winning in style has its merits
@@DM-rp9ikit's worth remembering that RWCs exist in legend, while the Rugby Championship and Six Nations only exist on Wikipedia. The most casual rugby fan will be able to tell you who won in 1995, or 2011, but only the most committed student of the sport will be able to tell you, without using Wikipedia, who won the Rugby Championship in 2017. So I'm glad the ABs win lots of RC trophies, but the Boks have won 4 RWCs from 8 entries, while the ABs have won 3 from 10. That is what legend will remember.
@kevinewert8546 but it shows a problem if the Boks don't dominate the rugby championship or at least win 2/4 over the next 4 years it makes a mockery sport.
The Springboks won four out of eight tournaments that they played. During that same period the Allblacks won two, the Australians one and England one. That should more or less any argument to who is the best rugby team in the world.
Great point
What about the winning percentages? There is somthing like head to head games played right
💪💪💪💪🏆🏆🏆🏆🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦🇿🇦
Your team has played test rugby for over 100 years , does none of it count ? Until 1987, ?
@@kamilhameed9158yes and NZ are way ahead
You do realize South Africa was involved in the 3 best games of the world cup. vs France, Ireland and NZ, all the while playing different strategies in each game. That's next level.
yeah but they couldn't even score a try against a 14 man team and nearly loss because of it.
@@_azurejake keep the try , we'll take the Cup .thank you.
@@_azurejake savage 💀💀💀
Sorry, you left the door open for that one. All on good fun. It's gonna be interesting to see Razor against Rasie. Razor's got the dance moves for sure.
@@_azurejakelol they didn't need too
The boks won a world cup without 4 main players "De Jager, Malcom, Mapimpi and Lukanya". In 2015 the index between NZ and Ireland at 4th was daylight. The game has moved on because of the introduction of new rules as a resul Tier 1 teams have become much stronger and the games less one-sided than before.
100% the 2015 ABS team would struggle to beat any top 4 team in 2023. Rugby evolves as any other human structural evolusion...
And NZ won comfortably in the final, whereas SA only won it by a point against 14 men for 53 mins.
They also forget that we lost our only hooker 2min into the game...
@@ChristopherHitchens3.14 The 2023 All Blacks is nowhere near is good as the 2015 team and yet they almost won the World Cup with 14 men. It's safe to say that the 2015 All Blacks team would absolutely demolish the current top 4.
@@granitesoldier7704 The All Bleaks are small up front with zero depth, they will keep losing.
Fair point about 2015 AB team. But....how strong were the rest at that stage? Irish, French etc then compared to now? I would say that the top 6 teams now are far stronger than in 2015.
Given some respect to Northern Hemisphere now that it suits your comment.. Why I say this is because not one respected comment from southern to Northern have I heard till now..
Absolutely agree, but that 15 team was a ridiculous roster, would still back them to beat anyone on the day.
But look how much weaker teams like Australia, England and Argentina are now compared to then.
The 2023 All Blacks would get destroyed beyond belief by the 2015 All Blacks, so that puts things in perspective.
I can't agree with Brian, even as an Ireland fan. The current SA team played amazing rugby, and look at the tactical choices they made in every game, Rassie had everyone bamboozled. As amazing as the 2015 New Zealand team were, if they had to face the current Boks side, the Boks side would find a way to win BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THEY DO.
The whole tournament boks were great. Played most games perfectly to plan. Boks were great in the Final too. Defense was brilliant. We're great in my opinion against France even though France dominated most of the game. They were great against Ireland, Scotland, not so much against England but we're good against the all blacks too. Especially in the early moments. In the last couple of minutes they held new Zealand back and it looked at times like the all blacks were running into brick walls. But because the boks don't play the "basketball rugby" therefore they won't really get the credit they deserve. The 2015 all blacks team were obviously amazing but this boks team is more than just pretty rugby. Or best rugby. Ireland played their best rugby yet look what it brought them? So sometimes you need more. I'll probably put those 2 teams current boks and 2015 equal. But if I had to choose I'll probably go boks.
They didn't bamboozled Ireland do.. So his strategy didn't all go to plan.. NZ back then didn't lose any games.. South Africa lost pool games in both world cups
@@patrickkelly4506 Correct, but the competition NZ faced were way way weaker on their way there. Lmao, when has a team had to have Ireland, Scotland and Samoa in their pool just to get started? South Africa had to face the entire top 5, and let's face it Ireland just barely beat us without our best kicker. So Ireland's best team ever could only score a single try against us. That NZ team also had a home 2011 cup and Bryce Lawrence purposely cheated us out the world cup, texts came out after the tournament that revealed he planned on cheating. Lmao, this springboks team are undisputed and both their victories were away from home. People love letting their emotions get in the way of facts.
Played amazing rugby? By relying on their kicker to kick all their points? Nah u don't sound like an Irish fan, more like a SAffer🤨😂
@@k.o.t.h didn't miss a kick in the final did they? While NZ did....twice. The best teams win their games. Better luck next time
I don't think this Springbok squad is quite done yet. Have a look at how many of the current squad will still be in line to play 2027.
I can tell you now they will win the next world cup in Australia 2027 the amount of talent in That squad and still young talented players it's crazy 😮
@@avelamasuku660now they have won another the amount of talent is only going to increase
@@avelamasuku660 Sorry but Razor will be winning the next three at least.
@@granitesoldier7704 I hope he can find a 2 big packs otherwise I don't see it...into the darkness you go.
@@surfsnow1371 Find a 2 big packs? Son that makes no sense .
That Abs team also had a 90% win rate, part of the 9 years dominance at number 1.
So 2015 Abs team I agree
Lol 90% win rate against weak opposition and a home world cup victory...I think not!
Home world cup come on
@@surfsnow1371So 95 isn't worth much?
@@zombievikinggaming4258 This conversation is about back to back world cups, so try to keep up. South Africa won 2 world cups back to back away from home. NZ had to get Bryce Lawrence to help them in 2011, go watch that farcical game. Also how the final between NZ and France went, they blatantly only reffed France at the breakdown and let NZ do whatever the hell they wanted. Most stolen world cup ever. Compared to the 2023 final NZ could have won had they only nailed 1 of their missed kicks. So by that logic alone the refereeing was fairer. NZ went back to back against far easier opposition and 2011 was at home. So yes, the South African back to back run is far more impressive. 1995 is an entirely separate conversation.
@@koiselectsa ask France how that home world cup went , and 2007 😅
What many people don't fully appreciate about this Bok team is that they can do the "grind" game better than anyone but they now also have the ability to "razzle dazzle" .... think we will see them grow that part of the game even more in the next 4 years ...
Yes, especially with the likes of Libbok, Williams, Moodie, Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu, Dayimani and Roos set to hit their peak.
Springboks have always had the ability to razzle dazzle. There's a video on RUclips that shows the Springbok's 2007 RWC tries. Trust me you won't believe your eyes. Springboks used to razzle dazzle even before then back in the late nineties. The only thing that changed is that the level of coaching and systems just went up a notch when Rassie came in. As well as Daan Human, whi wss scrum coach at the Bulls. During that period the scrum never went backward so he bacame a consultant before getting a full-time job at the Springboks. People might not know this but he's very key, much like all the other coaches are.
I call BS on that the Boks can play razzle dazzle" When the Boks have tried to play running rugby against the ABs they generally lose.
@@pdvjourno5893 Ha ha, I can see you are a Province guy. But yes, those are some good players from Province to look at.
@@GhostyArcher292 5 tries to 1 at Twickenham before the WC. They can play.
People forget that the 2015 All Blacks beat SA by only 2 points in the semi final, and they thrashed a lucky Australian tema (they reached the final by getting a penalty against Scotland in the final minute and in a time when Australia was dominated by New Zealand
And the 2011 AB team were ridiculously lucky to scrape home against France in the final.
@@pdvjourno5893 And also ridiculously lucky not to have met the Springboks in the semi-final.
Blasphemy
Congrats to the springboks won a semi and a final without playing any rugby.. Got to give it to a team that is happy to give the ball back to the opposition and wait on refs calls to assist.
@@maffrose thanks for that, it takes a special team to achieve such heights. Just don't forget England kicked away 95% of their possesion, and made one run at the Boks in the final moments when they had to. New Zealand kicked away 62% of their possession, amere 13% less than South Africa. Perhaps you need to pay closer attention to what actually happens on the field of play. Just as an example South Africa scored 4 tries vs France, the most they have conceded in a very long time 😉
This squad of BOKS is without a doubt the best rugby team EVER. Back to back victories AWAY from home and the toughest route to a final EVER.
Don't forget a Lions series in-between. The All Blacks drew in 2017.
Couldn't beat Ireland
@@sammorgan111 Ireland are hardly a world cup threat, they never make it passed the quarters. The boks used them to set up their game plan, and it worked out perfectly. zazazazazaza
@@sammorgan111 Boks were just playing with their food in that game. No real peril losing against Ireland so SA still experimenting at that stage. And tbh I wouldn't sing Ireland's praises too loudly - biggest chokers of all time.
Not singing irelands praises. But if Ireland are that terrible the so called best team ever should not of lost to them. You just ruined your own argument. So 2015 Ab still greatest team ever. Congratulations on the 4 time Champs though very well earned!
Coming to watch quarter finalists cry... you guys dont disappoint. The best teams in the world win cups.🏆🏆🏆🏆🇿🇦
😂true.
Achieving success against the world's top five rugby teams requires more than just an emphasis on playing beautiful rugby. It demands a strategic approach, necessitating a team with exceptional skills, physical conditioning, and unwavering determination. In the process, one must carefully evaluate scenario-based questions within their specific contexts. Ironically, Ireland, in their pursuit of attractive rugby, suffered defeat and another quarter-final exit. New Zealand's defeat can, in part, be attributed to their extensive use of ball-in-hand play, while South Africa opted for a more conservative approach due to their lead. It's important to remember that when you aggressively attack the game, you expose yourself to the inherent risk of a counter-attack.
8 world cups 4 wins.
The beautiful numbers vs the beautiful game.
50% vs 30% World Cup win rate.
I notice that BOD stood next to Bryan Habana when Barnes blew the final whistle and took a while to congratulate him when the Boks won.
I wouldn't be surprised if he was, he always seemed fired up against the Boks and seemed to reserve his energy for the Boks
All blacks 2015 is by far the greatest ever. There stats from 2011-2015 says it all.
No other team in history have more wins than the All Blacks. 77% wins since 1903.
Record wins over top tier nations.
Vs Sth Africa 57-0
Vs Ireland 60-0
Vs England 64-22
Vs Wales 55-3
Vs Scotland 69-20
Vs France 62-13
Vs Australia 57-22
Vs Italy 101-3
In the last 15 Bok matches they won 13 and lost 2.
Beat ITA BY 42
Beat Aus by 31
Beat NZ by 28
Beat Wal by 28
Beat Eng twice
Beat France
Played world number 1,2,4,5 & 6 to reach the WC final and then still found a way to win the World Cup.
Previously Irish pundits said they were lucky to beat the Boks at the World Cup with no recognised kicker. If Pollard was playing it was game over. They spoke about that last-minute maul could have been a penalty or penalty try. But it wasn't to be and the Irish won "with their style of rugby". I rate the 2015 NZ team but I think this Bok squad would find the way to beat them. Probably by 1pt. Time to give credit where credit is due.
Some say that last year's World Player of the Year should have been Ardie Savea and not JVDF. Ardie would have back-to-back World Player of the Year awards now.
The 2015 All Black team won more games.
From 2011 to 2015 the All Blacks only lost 3 games.
That is 92% win rate.No Rugby country has better win rate.
2023 All Blacks were not great team.Foster win rate was only 70%.
Which not good for All Black team.But this team only lost by single point to the Springboks.
Lol that was with 14 players and TMO guy from HELL!!
It’s Pollard playing it wasn’t game over.
Anyone who thinks that doesn’t understand rugby at all. Boks were taking kicks at 50m, and couldn’t get Ireland in the corners and their mauls didn’t work against Ireland.
Boks can’t seem to beat Ireland. Everything else is an excuse the same way bok fans say Ireland can’t get past a Q and everything we say is an excuse. You can’t have it both ways!
The 2015 Graham Henry All Blacks dominated world rugby and rightly so they were brilliant. It's not SA's fault that a NZ player got a red card. Boks have been on the receiving end of those before many times. People tend to forget that the Boks had 2 yellow cards in that match as well so for 20min so it was 14 vs 14. We could have lost that match NZ played out of their skin. Respect to them
My point was if Pollard had to take those kicks Mannie missed he probably would have got them over. That last maul could have been a penalty try for collapsing or at least a penalty. Ireland won in the end, I have no issues with that and they play a good style of rugby. They will get QF monkey off their back next WC they have the talent.
@@fibbernatchie I get what you're saying but there's no guarantee he would have from that distance & you have to remember, Ireland pretty much turned down every kickable penalty for the corner. I think there were 5 in the first 30 odd minutes alone and Sexton went to the corner each time and for someone like him, those are slotted over at ease (15 points left aside). I think Ireland are as good as SA, NZ and FR but on the day any of these teams can win BUT I do feel that SA are the best of those 4 since they played 4 and won 3 on the way to the cup so I tip my hat off. Loved seeing the SA fans around the country happy and what that will do for the sports in the townships there. You really are only at the beginning of what I see as SA dominance for a while.
Ireland are also only at the start of something special, the sport is growing fast here (its 4th behind Gaelic football, soccer, hurling and then rugby). But we have imbedded academies and a system that seems to be serving us a conveyor belt of upcoming stars. If that continues then I hope we are at the top table for the next decade along with SA, FR and NZ (altho I worry for NZ).
Hilarious ………. It does not matter what anyone says regardless of the legendary 2015 AB’s or 2023 Boks. The fact is South Africa needs to build a bigger Trophy cabinet and Ireland can play beautiful rugby to win their next pool games
😂😂😂How many teams would probably that play "beautiful rugby" would swap places with boks right now? I yes we love rugby that's pleasing to the eye but sometimes it doesn't win you anything. Sometimes you need grind it out even if you play poor. Which the boks have know how to do. They can play running rugby if they want. They've proven that many times. People just hold to the notion that the boks can only play one style and that's it.
Firstly, Brian is a legend - the real World Cup final in 2015 was the semi between SA and NZ and 2 points separated the two teams - this SA outfit is a much much better one than the 2015 SA team. Therefore I do believe that the SA team of 2023 would dismantle NZ of 2015
It's hard to argue against that AB's 2015 team, they really were special!
The Boks are on the beginning of a great journey - having finally rebooted their entire system (thanks to THAT AB shellacking) after decades of terminal illness. Rassie & Jacques helped kick start the thing & the feeling is it will only improve.
Yes 2015 All blacks won rigged final in 2011 and only beat boks by 2 pionts in semi final 2015 plus richy Mccaw biggest cheater in rugby history cheated in every ruck and maul he ever entered 😂😂😂
@@theofilusbouwer3430if you’re not cheating then you’re not trying. There’s plenty of cheating accusation that get thrown our way back then.
@@daggaboom true and Schalk burger tried but got yellow carded for same things richy mccaw got away with which give All blacks and crusaders big advantage
@@theofilusbouwer3430 would you complain much if we were the better cheats? McCaw is a helluva competitor and I can’t hate on a guy for that. Was a pleasure and infuriating to play against them.
Its what you do after you win a cup, can you prove over and over again with a 90% win ratio?? If not, your not the 2015 abs
It’s crazy to think that in less than a decade you can’t even compare the styles of the two GOAT teams because of how different the game is.
I’m talking reffing of the breakdown, 50:22’s, tackle rules the list goes on.
If it was the space jam scenario though I’d have to go with the Kiwis from 2015.
Even crazier that SA is in the goat debate when they haven't even been the consistently dominant team in the past few years. That team was Ireland.
The problem is teams trying very hard to to simulate AB 2015, the game has moved on, thanks to Rassie SA is not trying to be NZ, they are comfortable in their green and gold, Ireland crushed from their high flying horse 🤷🏾♂️
@@k.o.t.h Ireland were over buffed by the refereeing just like the boks were in that final and the game against france. Neither team is as good as people think they are. They just got extremely lucky with the officiating in multiple matches. The Ireland series in NZ a year or two back was an absolute robbery by the same official team that stole thie WC final off NZ this time. NZ were basically playing that final with their hands tied behind their backs and they still nearly won it. Absolute farce. WR hasnt put the full footage up yet either and thats because they dont want people looking through that match for all the utter BS that went on....... NZ were flat out robbed.
@@austingtir You poor little man 🤣
I think the 2015 ABs are better because they dominated in between WCs as well as at the tournament. 2023 Boks might be the best pack of all time though
I reckon the boks 2007 pack was better tbf
I like the 2007 Bok pack better. Go take a look at it...
Boks hands down!
@@MrJonnyl123Pieter Steph just became the best blindside of all time. The 2023 locks are better imo. Bakkies is a walking yellow card. Also the front row of the 2023 vintage is better. Back row of 2007 better overall I’d say
@@RicardoOlivares-k4w bakkies and matfield is the best lock combination of all time
I'd argue that the "best rugby" is winning mate. Pretty isn't always best
That is an oxymoron, Brian. The best team needs to play the 'best rugby'. The best rugby is the rugby that wins World Cups. So, therefore, this team would be considered a better team than the 2015 World Cup having beaten the tournament favourites and hosts, France and then beating the most successful Rugby team of all time in the final. They played 'the best' because they won.
Exactly.
I think deciding who the "best" team is a bit more nuanced than that. Lomu is regarded as the goat without ever lifting the web ellis cup. Without a doubt SA is the greatest world cup team though, but i think this title considers the seasons leading up to the world cup too
These things are fun but really impossible to say. Teams strength is both a factor of how good they are as well as the opposition. Although they beat most opponents in that World Cup pretty easily it was actually a 2 point game against the Springboks (the same team that lost against Japan.) As South African fan I have to admit that 2015 era All Blacks were amazing especially on individual player level. This Springbok group though has something else as far as a team squad (not only the 15 on the field) - and sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
BOD sounds like he regrets playing for Ireland and actually wanted to be a AB 🤣😂.
No even worse, the green jersey he wore was the wrong kind of green. What he really wishes is that he was a Bok!!! 🇿🇦🏉
The big difference 2015 All Blacks proved they were best.
The All Blacks don’t go on holiday for another four years.
The All Blacks keep on winning.
Great teams keep it going.
You keep your best team theories, hey you can even keep the awards, team of the tournament and take the number ranking. We will just rock up in 4 years time and unleash the Sjambok on y'all again
Remember New Zealand were at home for the 2011 World cup made things much easier for them.
The South African teams won both world cup away from home that's got to count for something
Home advantage? That means France should have been in final. Home advantage is nonsense
The All Blacks are and will be the greatest rugby team ever. Period! Just refer to the record books.
I can make a very good case for the 2007 Boks being even better. Bakkies and Matfield in the 2nd row. John Smit and Os du Rant in the FR, Burger, Juan Smith and Roussouw in the BR and then you have Fourie de Preez at SH, De Villiers and Fourie in the centre, and Habana, JPP and Percy the back 3! And bench players like Bismarck du Plessis, Ruan Pienaar, Francois Steyn, Skinstad....
Agree, that generation might well have had more pure talent. After 2007, some others came on the scene: Msteyn, Brussow, Lambie, Andries Bekker. If you want to talk about a versatile guy who could cover multiple positions, Ruan Pienaar. Imagine they'd been managed the whole way though by Rassie and Jacques? Jake's a good coach but PDV and Heyneke Meyer towards the end didn't get the most out of that generation. With the preparation and mindset of this team, they might have also gone btb.
I think the 2009 group was even better than the 2007 group.
What a team
Tbh I can’t remember a single springbok team from 2007 up until now that wasn’t overflowing with talent. The depth of our Talent pool is unimaginable. What let us down in the past was the coaching
Only thing that team was lacking is colour 😂
The individual World Cup wins for SA were better than NZ's two wins, but that New Zealand team were overall more dominant and consistent between the World Cups. NZ '15 are still no.1 but SA '23 is 2nd or 3rd at worst.
Obviously this is hypothetical, but if the 2015 AB’s played the 2023 Boks they wouldn’t have been allowed to play their beautiful rugby because they would have been under so much more pressure …
I totally agree with Brian. However I don't think they would have won the 2011 if Brace Lawrence was not in the squad.
I think the fact that the Springbok team was not really given a chance and the last three games showing something more than skill more than talent makes them the GOATS. the All Blacks are like the Gypsie King we all expect him to will but when a guy shows up from MMA without a fight comes and knocks him out we all kinda look the other way. Here is to the BoKs the teams that no body can congratulate without adding a "but" the team that beat the odds the prodigal sons that made the game more than a just game. No team has ever dug so deep.
Brian O'Driscoll: "The Springboks are not the greatest, because they don't play rugby that I like." 🙃
Yup BOD is a hater. Because he never won a world cup and that lions tour ended in misery for him. Then it happened again a few years ago.
And 1 of those worldcups for NZ was at home. Both for SA IS AWAY
The 2015 AB's were great but at that time there wasn't 3, 4 or 5 other nations that were as strong and competitive. This SA team's path to victory in this wc is incomparable in it's difficulty & are therefore definitely a good shout as the greatest. That said, SA will frankly never get credit from especially the northern hemisphere no matter what they achieve. I'll take 4 times wc champions everyday over the opinions of "never won/ never passed a quarterfinal people."
Only reason that its competitive now is because the All Blacks have been terrible over the last 4 years. If the 2015 team played now, they would still be miles better than everyone else.
People have a lot to say about this tournament, watch Rassie come back and make it 3 for 3. Then I hope everyone will shurrup and admit the boks have something different about them. Lots of ifs and buts, but I tell you one thing you cannot deny.
1. If Pollard was fit
2. If Marx didnt get injured
3. If Lood was playing (no disrespect to Franco)
4. If Am was fit (no disrespect to Kriel)
This tournament would've seen the full force of the boks and it wouldve been undeniable.
I agree the 2015 AB teams were the best team.
As a South African I can concede that NZ were better but this bok team would beat them 50% of the time
2023 Irish team is best team to go into world cup and not win a single play off game ever😢😢😂😂
😂😂😂😂
Love it! Go All Blacks!
The Bokz had an exceptional WC, winning 3 consecutive knockout games by 1 was amazing and showed how heart and determination can win games, and not just who executes their strategies the best. In relation to O’driscall’s argument, 2015 ABz did play better all round rugby. In the last 2 games, Bokz only scored 1 try, couldn’t score in the final, lost their tryless final record against 14men, didn’t score any points in the 2nd half, and won by 1 against 14men for 50mins. I reckon the 2015 Bokz would beat today’s
All it proves is the officiating and rules are heavily in favour of the defensive team and it suit the boks game perfectly. Makes it so easy for them to just win games. The fact is the AB's were robbed last weekend by the match officials. If you rewatch that game the tmo's and barnes totally destroyed almost any chance of them winning that game yet they nearly did. Eben should of been carded TWICE = red card for a leading elbow on cane during a carry and the offside incident. And Bongi should of been penalized for sealing the ball off with that ridiculous leg wide open stance he did (which should be illegal in itself if player safety is really an issue as thats asking for an injury via mistake or on purpose which this clearly wasnt). Also in that incident the Ginga Bok prop comes in and forearms/elbows Frizzel in the face just prior to him clumisly landing on bongi's leg. So this incident should of been a penalty on bongi sealing the ball and then a car on the ginga prop for a forearm cleanout to the fact on frizzell. Then the game totally changes doesnt it!???
Boks played 8 WC while NZ has played 10. Boks 4 from 8 WC.😊
Argument could be made that this current SA squad is the best tournament team, but even then the 2015 ABs were incredible, and between the cups SA haven't been the best team (recently thats been Ireland, previously it's usually been the ABs). All a bit pointless, SA are the current champions, but will they maintain that level? Maybe, but let's see how they go for the next four years.
Boks don’t use time between world cups to rack up wins. They use it to build depth, blood new players and tinker with tactics for the next World Cup.
I feel maintaining it wont be a factor. The players are old and a few wont play in the next WC. Both Nienaber and Jones are also leaving in the coaching staff. If we can maintain it, great, but it would be a different team in both the coaching and players.
It’s ok, we’ll just have to win 3 back to back and then we can sit back and watch everyone play verbal gymnastics again to avoid giving the Boks the credit they deserve.
The 2023 bok team wil beat 2015 Allbacks with 1 point!
A bit dull though I would suggest? Just saying.
🤣
I think they are. Yes, I am South Africa and I am biased. But, people who don't know South African Rugby won't know our priorities when it gets to being successful in terms of winning trophies and results. We simply work in 4 year cycles. For 4 years, we build depth, we try things, we build experience, we test combinations, we are simply building towards the next world cup. Yes, we would like the win the Rugby championship, but that is not our main priority. Of course we don't go out there to lose, we want to win every game, but once again, we use lot of those matches to gain information for our next World Cup. Our main priority is always the next world cup. In 2024, our priority will be to have the best team in the world in 2027. The World Cup is literally the only trophy that unites our country and in a World Cup we are almost the finished product that we trialed for the past 4 years. In 2018, this team had a plan to win the World Cup 2023. It just happened that we won 2019. 2020 was completely written off due to South Africa's strict Covid government restrictions. They literally went into the Lions Series with limited preparation, a year behind the rest of the world and they managed to win it. Right after the Lions series, attention turned to the world cup. This team is incredible. 2 World Cups, back to back and a Lions series. Unbelievable. Now, it is time to groom the next generation. The 2015 All Black team would not stand a chance against this team. There are two ways of playing the game. This team know how to win. Luckily BOD's opinion carries no weight when it gets to our rugby.
What a stupid argument SA play horrible rugby always have
The 2015 All Blacks team by far the better team been at the top for over a decade they were just on another level The 2023 All Blacks Team the least strongest team we have fielded compared to past teams with 14 man down came within one score of beating a team with the much vaunted "bomb squad" kept them scoreless for the entire 2nd half if the springboks were down to 14 men for nearly an hour do you think they would cope? I don't think so.
This Springbok side (with Marx and Am) would beat the 2015 ABs.
There, I said it. Change my mind.
Sure they would because they had the benefit of analyzing the ABs and devising a defensive strategy to do that. If both teams had the benefit of watching the other, coin toss. I'm only saying this because no team so far REALLY found a consistent way past this Bok defense, especially the 2019 world cup one
Your mum thinks you are weird
What people actually forget lots of the teams are more professional and a lot stronger than when the All Blacks were so dominant. Rugby change through the years
We are suffering from success as Springbok fans. 😅😅
Too much. 😂
Its such a shame that the Boks get no credit for their incredible innovation and have won 50% of all the world cup tournaments they've been a part of. It's really just a shame...
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂I love these guys…great player but didn’t even make a semi
I agree agree with OD.
2015 was a great team! 2023 Springboks won by 1 point and played most of the game against 14
It's weird how the Irish pundits still find ways to chuck an Irish perspective even when talking about the greatest rugby teams in the history of the game.
The 2023 Springboks team is the best defensive team there has ever been. They always win when it matters most. The 2015 ABs were probably the best attacking team with Carter being a remarkable kicker too... but I believe a good defense beat a good attack any day. Look back at the final, South Africa couldnt get any of their set pieces to be a weapon - and still won!
The Boks played the 2023 final I think for 60 minutes against 14 players. Does anyone not think that may have influenced the outcome?
I gotta agree with ghost: yes this Boks team has an insane defense, but they allowed a try to the present day all blacks, I’m pretty sure Carter and all the weapons that the 2015 team had that it would find a way.
@@mainstream180, hardly the boks's fault that the ABs played with 14men... Besides, with todays TMOs and refs the ABs would have had a few more in the bin... Looking at SBW's upright tackles, not to mention Jerome Kaino and maybe even Savea (against Kolbe or Arendse) and Nonu? Not having Ardie on the field would make things a tad easier against the 2015. Kieran Read was good too... Buy not Ardie good... Richie wasnt that great in 2015... his best days were behind him.
@@wesselbadenhorst6030 I have to respectfully disagree with you on how good Read was. He won the same award that Ardie just won. As for Richie, the man was still the worlds best no. 7 even in 2015. I’m not taking anything away from the 2023 Boks, you don’t win a World Cup based on pure luck, they are a dominant side. But they beat an All Blacks team that was missing some of its best players before the World Cup and lost to an All Blacks team that was had a lot of questions surrounding it. They also were one conversion or penalty away from possibly losing this World Cup. If the game was close I just can’t believe that Carter wouldn’t have made a drop goal to seal the deal, like he proved he could. But once again, this is a dominant SA side and it should be feared. I also would not be surprised if they 3-peat.
@@wesselbadenhorst6030yet this bok team beat a 14 man all blacks side by 1 point. An all blacks side mind you who would get absolutely demolished by 20 by the 2015 team.
The question defines the answer. The 2015 AB team was the best team to watch play rugby. The 2023 SA team is the best RWC winning team.
That 2015 NZ team looked amazing because the rest of the field were rubbish. Only SA were a challenge, whom they only narrowly beat 20-18 in the Semi's. They crushed France 62-13 in the Quarters, and Australia 34-17 in the Finals. They had an easy Pool compared to SA once again. SA scored more points in the Pool stages than NZ, 176-141.
So if you Put 2015 NZ up against 2023 Springboks, the Boks win every single day of the week.
WITH OUT A DOUBT.
Not forgetting that going into this world cup, Ireland considered themselves the best team in the world. Everyone thinks they're the best for different reasons.
I believe this Ireland side are a better team than SA…but came up against a laser focused AB’s in dry conditions with a ref that let the game flow. That’s a scary scenario for any team in a knockout fixture, and any team can win on the day.
As a kiwi I’ve been so impressed with Ireland the past 2 years, and amazing to watch too. A massive lost opportunity for Ireland, who clearly the world number 1 side IMO…
Having said that SA are world champions and congratulations to them.
I think people need to look at the French game and realise that there was some shocking decisions that went against them and south Africa can count themselves very lucky to progress from that. Few very suspect decisions from the ref
Springboks faced the best ever Irish team… best ever French team… +Scotland + England + All Blacks. There has never been such a test in the history of the game, and never will be again.
They won games by one point hardly emphatic jasus :)😅
But I find it strange that rugby is running rugby, only the are other parts off rugby tht make rugby defense, scrum ,kicking tactical tht form part off the game so you is it that other countries expect South Africa to play the same game as thm ,if we as SA decided we do not want a running game what's wrong is it not part off the rules off the game
At the end it is winning games
The officiating and rules are heavily in favour of the defensive team and it suit the boks game perfectly. Makes it so easy for them to just win games. The fact is the AB's were robbed last weekend by the match officials (it actually all comes back too BILL BEAUMONT IMO!!). If you rewatch that game the tmo's and barnes totally destroyed almost any chance of them winning that game yet they nearly did. Eben alone should of been carded TWICE = red card for a leading elbow on cane during a carry and the offside incident. And Bongi should of been penalized for sealing the ball off with that ridiculous leg wide open stance he did (which should be illegal in itself if player safety is really an issue as thats asking for an injury via mistake or on purpose which this clearly wasnt). Also in that incident the Ginga Bok prop comes in and forearms/elbows Frizzel in the face just prior to him clumisly landing on bongi's leg. So this incident should of been a penalty on bongi sealing the ball and then a card on the ginga prop for a forearm cleanout to the face on frizzell. Then just on those four instances alone the game totally changes doesnt it!???
I don’t think this conversation should only revolve around the World Cup years. The 2005 NZ team that dispatched the Lions 3 times are the best team I’ve ever seen.
You can't make a team that shuts down the game the greatest of all time?! You can call them the greatest 'anti-rugby' rugby team of all time. But you have to actually 'play' to be the greatest. They won the cup, and should be happy enough with that.
Is Brian still saying it could/should have been us😂😂😂😂
I am a Bok and have to agree that 2015 AB side was just crazy man. But in terms of the Boks being boring and everyone complaining about their style of play. Totally utter Bull that back three of SA at this moment might very well stake a claim on the Back three of the AB 2015 side without a doubt. If two games can point out that the Boks can use both pack and backs 2019 WC Final and the Quarters against France 🇫🇷 .... Cheslin is so underrated, man, and I promise you Willemse and Arendse will only get better with Canan taking over the 13. The Boks can switch up their play much better than any other team in World Rugby. But no one is talking about it. The 5-3 split against France mind-blowing lol .... And it worked the fact that the Boks have so many utility backs that also indicate the talents we have. But the hate is real, man. So proud of the Boks !!!
Brian..."it could've been us"
It wasn't Brian, it never has been, not even once & even worse never passed a quarterfinal. Knocked out in a quarterfinal is the worst performance for an SA team in world cups and it's Ireland's highest achievement. Frankly your opinions cannot be taken seriously considering
If you think about he means all he said is nonsense would have gladly played our way to win but since its not them therefore our style not better😂😂😂
How does a team that scrapes through each game through grit and some very good fortune i.e. All Blacks down to 14 but only winning by one come close to the 2015 All Blacks? Remember ABs were undefeated. SA also could not beat Ireland. If by great, you mean plucky and spirited then maybe but great should mean consistently excellent. Here is just one example. The ABs put 60 on France in their 2015 quarter-final against France. SA scraped through. The match could have gone either way.
Perspective, please.
Well done to the 2023 SA team but let’s not delude ourselves.
You seem to conveniently forget that the BEST NZ team of all time in 2015 scraped through the RWC semi-final by 2 points against... the Springboks (who at that stage were a young, developing team). And France and most of the other teams competing in RWC2015 were very average, not like in RWC2023 where France & Ireland were way stronger than in previous years.
This is so laughable. The fullback alone the boks played in the final isnt fit hold to Ben Smiths jockstrap let alone any of the other legends in that AB 2015 team. The Bok 15 looked worse than most NZ schoolboys out there. The fact is the rules HEAVILY favour the defensive team which isnt the natural game of the AB's so they are at a huge disadvantage under the current officiating and rules. Yet they nearly beat this supposedly great bok team with 14men when both teams should of been down to 14 and while battling the ref/tmo's who might as well had springbok jerseys on. (boks should of been down to 13 imo at times as the officiating was just simply biased as hell in this game). Boks were literally handed the trophy by world rugby on a platter.
That legendary ABs team you speak of squeaked through the semis by a mere 2 points against a young, developing Springboks side. Your language is just as appalling as your inability to make sense. WR (especially Beaumont who cannot bear the fact that the Boks slaughtered his team in the tour of 1980) dislikes the Springboks intensely, so there goes that ridiculous theory of yours.
The 2015 team was great but they narrowly won the Springboks in the semi final by one or two points. The refs penalty reversal probably made the difference in that game.
No, they proved in the years between world cups they were the best with a 90% win record, Saffas cant say the same, consistency is what makes you great.
@@jireh2360💯
Right, and the Springboks didn't just narrowly win against a 14 man All Black side by one point? The refs mistake of penalising Ardie Savea when he was clean over the ball probably made the difference that game.
Yoza has a great point
Lol Saffas spend they're 4 years trying to come up with combinations, introducing a lot of new guys. There isn't a lot of tests in a period of 4 years if you think about it.
2015 Boks VS ABs 18 - 20 I think this team is better than the 2015 team and there was nothing between ABs and Boks then.
And this boks team beat the worst abs team of all time with only 14 men for 60 mins by 1 point...
@@JoshAce-o9c You may have a point there, kind of put a new slant on that Irish win in New Zealand, and Frankly makes one wonder how the Irish could lose to this AB team.
It is also understandable why that team looms so large in BOD's mind taking into consideration that Ireland had never beaten the Abs before 2018. For South Africans, even the most fearsome ABs teams were always beatable.
As a South African, I completely agree with Brian. All Blacks of 2015, especially when you consider their winning percentage over a long period of time.
Yes it will be frustrating to think the New Zealand is the best but south africa won it back to back and still broke the rugby history to win it 4 times
What a joke. If it was Kolisi who got a red in the first half, ABs would've won by 20. The Boks barely held on playing against a 14 man squad while receiving several handouts from the ref. They weren't even the best team in their pool, let alone the tournament.
😂😂😂😂
Haha gotta love all the Bokke fans trying to convince the everyone that the 2023 boks team is the best ever…
The 2011-2015 All Blacks lost 5 games out of 66, Had TWO x3 time player of the year winners in Richie McCaw and Dan Carter, x1 WPoty Kieran Read & Brodie Retalick not to mention the best centre pairing ever in Maa Nonu & Conrad Smith. Julian Savea at the peak of his powers too!
This Springbok team played 51 games from 2019-2023 and lost 13!! That includes both world cups btw..
I also gotta question if they had the hardest run ever.. I mean they lost against Ireland so that doesnt count does it? beat France - which WAS definitely the most impressive but then beat an England team who were bloody terrible and were expected to go out in the group stage & finally beat the worst NZ team in professional history (a 70% win rate under Foster vs 89% for the 2011-15 team).
Not to mention the final was overshadowed by the ref & TMO and NZ playing 60mins with 14men.
Why do you think this Springbok team arent getting huge praise OUTSIDE of South Africa?
Sorry SA fans, they wont be admired as much as that 2015 Abs team. Just enjoy your world cup victory and stop trying to convince the rest of the world you’re the greatest ever 😂 ✌️
After watching this now i know why the NH wont win another WC any time soon (and why they have only won 1). The NH doesnt understand knockout games. They think its an canvas art painting contest. You guys need a reboot mentally.
🤣😂 I've just pulled the plug on them. Hopefully they will come back and play better knockout rugby 😆
In 2015, the All Blacks beat the Boks by 2 points in the semi final, which could have gone either way. They definitely didn't look better than us on that day. Difference is, South Africa now win those close games. Before 2018, we used to lose them. We only lost to Ireland in that first game, because we didn't have a kicker.
71or 74Lions teams were unbelievable and 2005 ABs team that beat the Lions when Dan Carter was unplayable was good
ABs should easily have won the 2007 WC then it would have been a 3 peat.
South africa won on the day. Me personally, thought it would be an Irish/France final, because the of the style of play and results.
The last three games that South africa played were by won by 1 point with some dodgy ref/tmo intervention…thats the game at the end of the day.
Good on South africa they had some very lucky calls that went their way but also played their guts out to win.
All it proves is the officiating and rules heavily favour the boks atm. I truly dont think this is that great a team. Rassie is the best coach going around atm for sure but this isnt the best group of players getting around by any shot of the imagination. The boks just got super lucky with the refs to the point its questionable if Barnes and those TMO's just hate NZ given their history with the AB's. (that same match official group also robbed us in the ireland series in VERY similar circumstances).
Its really gone from sad to down right ludicrous. The SA/IRE pool game was lauded by same critics as one of the best games ever, the SA/France game was one of the fastest flowing games and considered one of the best in the history of the tournament. Once by a point and you start thinking, lucky, twice, probably dodged a bullet, but three times, you just take your hat off. South African rugby has its own DNA so as fans we dont share your opinion of what constitutes great rugby. Great teams can adapt to the changes in conditions. I cant think of another team in history that has had to take this route to a final. The greatest feat to date in worldcup history. No equal. Oh and then there's 2019.
60 odd million South Africans were never bored with the play...
I think you have to take in context, the caliber of opposition played in the years, in the year 2015 how many really good teams where there? So yes the 2015 NZ team could play very attractive "good looking" rugby, but the opposition where not nearly as good as the opposition teams now. Now in 2023, Ireland are brilliant, France are brilliant, NZ are Brilliant. Games are harder now, more players that are great now.
the core of this bok team also won in 2019, defended the cup (both away from home) have a win percentage in world cups of 50% (ab's 30%), beat the Lions after not playing any tests for 18 months, played one of the best tests of all time against the home nation france (scoring 4 tries to 3) had the hardest run to any world cup final ever and dont forget left 11 points on the table in the game against ireland! Personally wouldve loved ireland in the final, way easier for the boks. Respect BOD as a player but what is he smoking?
Not to worry SA will do a triple and the question will be answered in 2027.
The 2023 Springbok team is the greatest in terms of World Cup success, but I think the 2009 team has to be the best overall. The All Blacks and Springboks teams between 2007 and 2015 were a lot more formidable than their current counterparts.
wish i could see this game,
current Springboks with all their current injured stars...Am, Marks, de Jager
against that Richie McCaw team.
This match would be clash of the titans for sure
World Rugby has acknowledged that Aaron Smith try should of stood according to their rules.
They disallowed that try after four phases of play.Their rules state they cannot disallow try for infringement after two phases of play.
The TMO interfered after four minutes of play.Nigel Owens mentioned our game cannot refereed by the TMO.
We don’t want our game refereed by replay.
I would have the 2011-15 ABs way out in front by themselves...the Boks didn't dominate teams massively on the scoreboard like they did and I think in this WC the Boks rode their luck and had an unbelievelable clutch goal kicker in Pollard to get them over the line just.
How can this SA team be the greatest when they lost to Ireland, but if Pollard was playing in that match they probably would have won that too.
it's like asking who's the greatest boxer Ali or Tyson or tennis player Dokovic Nadal Federer or soccer player Pe'le Maradona Messi Randalo or racing driver Schumacher Senna Hamilton or NBL player or golfer Nicklaus or Woods they all have made a impact on their sports if you go on statistics you have a winner if you go on the wealth they have made from their sports you clearly have a winner
The 2015 All Blacks did not win back to back away from home, but do we care, SA have won 50% of world Cups, NZ have won 30%. PS the AB team of 2015 beat SA by 2 pts who had a bunch of kids 8 of which have now won 2 World Cups and also a 3rd place. 🏆🏆🏆🏆🇿🇦
If you use the criteria of "playing the best rugby" or an "enjoyment point of view", then South Africa could win 10 World Cups playing the same brand of rugby and never be regarded as the best based on this criteria.
"Best rugby" is very subjective. We love a scrum in South Africa.
Sad little QuarterFinalists 😊
Can't take their Bok hate analysis seriously.
As an Irish fan I have to say Brian has failed to understand that different styles can be attractive. If we all played the same way then it would be boring. I prefer this Springbok dynamism, they actually play more varied rugby, and they tailor it to the opposition and the conditions. So yes they are the greatest.
The ABs that won back to back world cups in 2011 and 2015 were great no doubt, but they struggled to win in 2011 (at home) by 1 point in the final. A lot of people say the boks were lucky this world cup by beating teams by a single point.
In 2015 there were barely 2 teams that could have won the world cup, and the AB's barely beat the boks in the semi final, the same bok team that was the laughing stock of the tournament for losing to Japan. In 2023 the competition was much more fierce, with Ireland and France arguably having their best teams of all time, and Scotland that can beat anyone on the day.
The AB's also drew against the Lions in 2017, which had a lot of the 2015 squad. The current bok squad did manage to beat the Lions in 2021 (after not playing any international rugby since 2019 because of covid).
Saying this current bok team is not as good as 2015 AB's because they don't play attractive rugby is just silly (They manage to evolve a lot since 2019 and played a few games with lots of flair). The only thing that the 2015 AB's did better that the current Bok squad, is they were more consistent between world cups, but they never had to face a rush defense like the boks have now, never lost a year of international rugby due to covid, nor did they need to build themselves up from the gutters like this Bok team had to, which suffered record losses constantly before Rassie and Jacques took over.
From 2011 to 2015 The All Blacks lost only three tests.
Their win rate was 92%.There is not another sports team in the world that even comes close that.
In 2017 the All Blacks beat South Africa 57 to nil.
The historical win rate of the All Blacks over 612 tests is 77.12%.
That over 120 years.