Sur Ron vs. DIY eBike / Is It Even Worth Building an Electric Bike?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- More information on eBike v4.2 can be found at mysuperebike.com/
I supply a Parts List and a Video Guide to help DIY people build their own powerful eBikes for only the cost of parts!
For order inquires, shoot me an email directly at Ladi@mysuperebike.com
Price of eBike v4.2 (completed base model): 5,000 Euro / $5,600 USD
Price of CyberBike: 6,800 Euro / $7,345 USD
---------
Did you appreciate this video? Send a "thank you" coffee to www.paypal.me/...
Special thank you to our Executive, David Řezáč and Benn Stratton for supporting this video!
---------
eBike v4.2 Specs:
- 100km/h max speed (62 MPH)
- Range around 80km (50 miles)
- Weight: 62kg (136 lbs)
- 0-100 acceleration in 10 seconds
- Regenerative breaking
- Built-in charger & bluetooth connectivity
CyberBike Specs:
- 27kW peak power
- 3,2kWh battery
- 3kW built-in charger
- 120km/h max speed (75 MPH)
- Range over 100km (60 miles)
- custom 3D printed panels (any color you want)
- Weight: 86kg (189 lbs)
---------
Find us on Instagram!
Ebike Videos (Ladi) : / panorama_mann
Travel & Lifestyle (Margaret): / curlyhaircamping
---------
Music by: Epidemic Sound
---------
Noise demonstration:
• Electrek Review: Sur-R...
• Sur-ron test bike firs...
Size demonstration and mentions:
• My SurRon MX Build
• Sur-ron Electric Bike
• SUR-RON LightBEE Sport...
set play speed to 1.25 and thank me later lol
Azog Defiler thanks bro
no thanks
I went ahead and did 1.5 haha
why tf does it sound more natural..
not all heroes wear capes
Aside from the customisation benefits of your own e-bike. You learn a great deal from building your own machine, and you certainly gain a sense of achievement from it. Especially when you lit it rip for the first time and the electric torque surprises you! I started off with a cheap 1000w diy kit from amazon 6 years ago with 2 batteries that I would individually charge and reconnect in series. Now years later I have a 23s EIG pouch cells setup with bms and pulling 250 battery amps on a bike that weighs a little over 40kg's that hits ludicrous speeds in seconds. I didn't need any special training just a few youtube videos and a friend to show me the bms setup and a bit of hard work. It's a lot more fun doing it DIY and cheaper!!
Hey that battery thing about charging them individually and then connecting them in series is something I used before also ... only difference was i connected it to 2 toggle switches (each with 4 connections ) and would have one switch connect the batteries together in series and the other one in parallel. I then stuck the switches together but in opposite. So when switching parallel to charge both at the same time it would mechanically switch off the series connection since the toggle switches where soldered together ...and vise versa when switching back to series ...yea it was overly complicated but like you said we have to start off somewhere . But I remember at the time feeling so proud of something that I now see as a hazard 😅. Great to know I'm not the only crazy that enjoys building ev's
@@ijaripanju3408 Yeah thats something I thought about doing when i moved up to higher voltages 28s 117v full charge, more batteries in series. But realised I was running so much current the switches wouldn't survive lol, and then decided to just learn how to wire a BMS.
This dude is number one... I have seen all the youtube channels related to ebikes, and this guys knowledge and product is light years ahead of all the rest... Greettings from Brazil !!!
Thank You for the video. When comparing DIY motors I ignore exact wattage ratings and look more at Torque NM and RPM. I see 500w motors rated with 12ah 36v batteries. I test them at about 417 actual watts because the 12ah battery is running @ 11.6 ah with a 36v 17a voltage controller. I opted for building a dual motor AWD fat tire bike because I needed off road and street legal for USA. I run 430 actual watts in the back motor and 288 actual watts in the front motor with high torque and rpm motors. I built my own batteries with Panasonic cells and I run separate battery packs for each motor. I used a 11t to 28t rear 7 speed free wheel and a 40t crank. Nothing as fast as your rig, but I can run it both on and off road USA legal.
Very nice! Post some pics of this beast!
I love how we are comparing how loud they are! I used to ride 2 stroke dirt bikes and they sounded like a rocket taking off. Electric is so much better. I like the quieter ride of electric. You can enjoy nature more.
Who the f goes on a trail to enjoy nature ? 😂
It's obvious this guy is the "Albert Einstein" of the electric bike's because his research and the "Robin Hood" for people like me who want the best I can have for my dollar; because I'm not rich. Thank You Man! I'm gonna buy from you soon, that's for sure.
Thanks mate, that’s nice to say!
Well I bought my surron for 2800 dollars from russia. I don't know why anyone with half a brain would buy it from those greedy resellers in europe.
But I personally I don't know which one I would choose if I were buying my first ebike. Maybe surron is easier and there are tons of videos about it etc. And it has a great upgrade path as you show in the video.
Well, to import bike from Russia to EU you must add to your purchasing price VAT and TAX. That is approx. 21% VAT and 5-8% of tax. And surprisingly you end with 3600 USD. So why don´t buy it even cheaper directly in China then?
@@Marek-qj8fj I haven't seen it any cheaper than 2800usd even from china. Please send me a link if you can find it cheaper. And you must remember the taxes are insane from china if you live in europe.
I live near the border of russia so I can just order products to a post office in there and pick it up and no taxes or VAT for me :D
Edit: There is no reseller in europe that sells surrons anywhere close to 3600usd and that was my point. Not comparing to us market
Do you have a link for where you bought it from.
@@regineauxrheinkreuzer258 it was bought with the help of dan orlov. But surronrussia has them sale for about the same price anyway.
@@BossManaatti Thanks!
I bought a Sur ron, and built a Trek 820 with a BBS02 to stay incognito. The donor was free, and I already had a 48v 10ah battery that I bought for a scooter. I'm happy with both.
Hey fellow Rider, lol! I would like to congratulate you for your comparison between a "Sur_Ron" and a super powerful eBike like I also have and that I also ridden myself, which is more commonly called: "Bomber" or "Speed bike" You explain very well the differences but also for everyone: the advantages and disadvantages, and it's very good to have done it, because even if now, we are finally starting to see a lot of videos on RUclips about all these 2 electric wheels plus or less powerful and versatile, there are still not enough specific tutorials for these wonderful machines that respect the environment, and I know what I'm talking about, because I have done more than 16 years of large displacement thermal and unbridled, and God knows it was still quite polluting but also very noisy, and there, with my Bomber which has a non-reduced wheel motor, which is a delight and ultra-silent, I don't disturb nature, I don't pollute not and makes almost no noise, just a slight hiss and I can even hear the birds while driving in the forest, for example, and that's really pleasant.
And so going back to the differences, this Sur-Ron which is really more of a very light little enduro bike and really goes everywhere and can even get over big obstacles like big rocks, kind of like a trials bike, is really made for me as far as size is concerned, because I am 1.71 m tall and as you say: the fact that the engine is central, it is ideal for the balance of this bike and for making jumps , in particular, but as I have no off-road experience and I am 59 years old, I do not drive like a madman on extremely degraded soils like those encountered in the undergrowth, on the other hand as I like the speeds and the super accelerations, I chose to build myself a Bomber for which I took a lot of time to choose all my parts and accessories while looking for the best quality / price ratio as for my battery, he is a specialist French, Josselin of "battery-concept" who made it to me, certainly it cost me more than my Bomber, that is to say 2600 euros, (but it is a 53 Ah and 72 Volts nominal of course with a quality bms which makes 100 A in discharge but I would have liked 150 A like my sabvoton controller and 50 At max load, and with new Samsung 18650 cells which are lighter and therefore it weighs only 16.5 kg when it should have weighed between 20 and 22 kg) and my Bomber: 2500 euros for a total of 5100 euros, which is not expensive, because in France, just a 50 cm3 thermal scooter costs between around 2000 and 3500 or even 4000 euros. So let's not talk about the 125 cm3 of which my Bomber is the equivalent, because I have a wheel motor of 8 Kw nominal and 12 Kw peak and it goes up to 98 km/h in top speed with a 0 to 100 km/ h in about 9 to 10 seconds, but it is given by the manufacturer for 110 km/h, it weighs 80 kg and I weigh 78. Certainly it will always be less agile and will not be able to really go anywhere to climb large obstacles as can the "Sur-Ron", But frankly, despite its weight, and that its motor is wound in 3.5 T therefore does more for speed on asphalt than for off-road and the motor wheel which weighs 24, 2 kg, I go over extremely rough terrain very easily and at high speed if I want to, and it climbs all kinds of rails and very steep hills, with disconcerting ease, lol! moreover, as I have the regeneration which I have adjusted well, not only during braking but also when releasing the gas grip which I have added in the advanced parameters via Bluetooth and the "MQCON" application and well I I have a strong but not violent engine brake which allows me not only to considerably improve my emergency braking, if necessary, but also on very steep descents, like more than 8% it brakes on its own and I am even forced to accelerate to make him regain speed, here, I think the Sur-Ron does not have it. Going back to the size, being not very tall I made the mistake of taking a 21" rear rim and I should have taken the same diameter as the front wheel, so a 19" because I had to drill holes for fixing the saddle support to put it lower, because my feet did not touch the ground and I thought that with a big wheel I would have a better top speed, but no, I always rode max at 98 km/h GPS counter so real speed. But my battery, when I disconnect it from the charger, always goes down from 84 to 82.5 Volts, so I'm missing some volts, maybe that's why it doesn't go up to 110 km/h. For the suspensions, I have DNM so pneumatic and when they are well adjusted, it's a treat of softness and efficiency, what happiness, I always have trouble getting off, lol! If you are curious like me, go see my videos and subscribe to my channel.
ruclips.net/video/4yNUs9KrmPc/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/PL43QIrRJVA/видео.html
Can u show me your engine batt and where to buy
In the USA most states will let you make the DIY one road legal. You just apply for a custome VIN which take some time and paperwork but seems worth it.
I currently have an ebike very similar to your 4.2 bike but... for off-road, I'd go with the Sur Ron X any day. Just has soooo much torque compared to the hub motor ebikes. Can take off much faster than mine, climb so much better than mine and conquer off-road trails where mine gets stuck and I have to get off and lift/walk it. I've honestly been thinking about selling mine and getting a Sur Ron X just because... I never really go THAT fast. Really more interested in acceleration and the ability to do some more intense off-road trails.
But yeah I guess it just boils down to what you're after. Honestly though for a brand new, fully built, ready to go ebike that can rip it on the trails, it seems like an awesome deal.
Yes, hub motors and mid drive motor are totally different world, but that's way mid drive motor cost more and to fit on your bike some of them (not Bafang) you need to have minimum mechanical skills, some times to visit your local metalworker to manufacturer extra brackets to fix on your bike frame where you like. A mid-drive motor is much smaller and lighter than a hub motor of similar power as wheel as gives better weight distribution because stays in the middle of the bike but adds extra stress to your chain or shifters, and cause those parts to wear out more quickly.
@Sergio Vault That's more of a small technical issue and only for certain situations - as there are bike frames that come with mid-motor mounts already installed. Also in my particular comment I was speaking more towards already-built mid-motor ebikes like the Sur Ron - not building your own.
Yes, you will absolutely have more stress on the strain but 1. it's a much larger (420 / MX) chain on bikes like the Sur Ron so they can handle a LOT more stress and last a LOT longer than trying to have a motor pull a regular bike chain. These chains are built for the stress. You can still get many thousands of miles (likely even tens of thousands) out of these chains before it comes time to replace them. Just clean and lube them every once in a while and they'll last ages.
But again, it really boils down to what you're looking to ride on mostly. For street and very light/easy trails: hub motor all the way - silent and slightly less maintenance.
However, if you want more reliability (longer lasting e-bike), want to hit harder off-road trails or just want more torque and the ability to edit your torque vs speed via changing sprockets then mid-motor is the way to go. And yes, mid motors tend to last longer and be more reliable than hub motors. I have compared 5,000-20,000 watt mid-motor ebikes to 5,000-21,000 hub motor ebikes and for off road, there is just no competition. Mid motor 100% wins. So much more controlability and torque. Even the 5,000 watt mid-motor could beat the 21,000 watt hub motor build in cornering and mud. It just has more torque. On the straight aways the 21kw takes it but everywhere else... mid motor. And even a 15,000 watt mid-motor was able to beat a 21,000 watt hub build in a drag race on street. Has more torque to get out ahead and being geared makes it easier on the motor so it doesn't even really overheat. The 21kw may have eventually pulled ahead but it was a pretty long stretch and the 15kw took it by a long shot.
Also on a mid-motor build like the Sur Ron, you can easily swap out tires or even the entire wheel. No need to take the entire wheel apart to put a new rim on. Not only that, a mid-motor build puts all of the stress/torque of the motor on a single, small axle... this means that with a lot of power, you end up starting to bend your axle mount on the swingarm or (as I've seen many people do) even completely snap your axle. Mid-motor doesn't have this problem since the stress gets distributed amongst the many mounting bolts of the motor.
PS the Sur Ron doesn't have shifters - doesn't need them. For other, custom mid motor builds that do have shifters and that do use those tiny bicycle chains then yeah, you just have to watch the amount of power you put through it and when shifting you just need to apply a tiny bit of power instead of giving it a lot of power and trying to shift... this is how a lot of those smaller mid-motor ebike builds get their chains, shifters or even sprockets damaged. Treat it right though and it can last a very long time. And when it does go bad after thousands of miles, just replace the chain. Chains are dirt cheap and easy to replace :)
But yeah basically in summary: Hub builds are fine for street and very light trails. Mid motor for real off-road.
@@Baronial10 exactly , I have both hub motor builds and mid drive and I love both but off road proper I take mid drive every time.
Commuting etc I'd go mid drive though as it's more relaxing to ride.
Go dual hub drive, more traction, nearly as much torque as a bbshd, still cheaper, less maintenance, better for on road.
Ladi, you need to cover the whole market. There are people out there who live in high rise apartments. I am sure they prefer the option of taking the battery out and charge it in their house.
6:38 Replaceable battery is important for urban uses and thats a great advantage over e-cars. Take the battery out, carry it into the apartment and charge it there. Only a few people living in cities have the possibility to charge their bikes or cars outside the apartment.
My G
I can’t wait to get building your great ebike it’s amazing keep up your great work my friend your the guy.👍
Yeah its great but you gotta get your middrive on bro . Lots of advantages. Just make one out of a smaller hub motor .
1 thing i love about the job you did is, the fact that you build it at your own also means you can repair it your own, cous you know all the parts, you can change everything and the only thing you have to do is buy new parts, and that can save you a lot of money, BUT its time you need, and not everyone want to spend that... so yea.
soon done with my 15kw stealth bomber diy :D love the power , gonna post video soon
Yes plx! I'm thinking about their F-37 single track.
Like you, there are lots of new ebikers spend a lot of money on they first ebike and I'm on that list also. Bought 2000 USD ebike on AliExpress and in 1 year I spent on it another 1500 USD, replacing cheap part for more durable, replacing controllers (in 1 year 3 of them), melt many times phase cables, 2 hub motors until found in forums how to get ticker phase cables in side the motor so it no overheat even in hot weather, buying spare Hailong batteries until realize they are ALL rubbish unless you assembling yourself or have friend that you can trust to. So ordered triangle battery inside frame by professionals, and so on so on so on...
Now decided to purchase Enduro frame and start all over again but now on a good quality frame but this time I decided to get on ebike, not a hub motor but cyclone motor that has a lot of reviews (it very young company but making better and cheaper motor than Bafang).
I would definitely buy your video guide if you had installed your bike using their motors (www.cyclone-tw.com), but it shame that you are fan of hub motors. Good like with your project
To be fair, the Sur Ron sounds SWEET. A lot of people don't like motor whine, but no matter how loud it is, it'll never be louder than dirt.
Loud electric motors sound the way I'd expect futuristic motorcycles to sound.
Sur Rons also supposedly increased their range/speed.
You made some great points. I agree with you that there is a great barrier to entry for DIY ebike. You need lots of skills and time. They say time is money. If it takes 5-7 days to build a DIY ebike, you can use that money towards upgrades for a Sur ron. A Sur ron has
lost of aftermarket support for and there is brand recognition for Sur ron. So resale value may be better for a known product like Sur ron. What happens if a component fails within the DIY ebike. You maybe have trouble with warranty support for that particular component in that case.
You get a faster charging battery with DIY. But it's generally widely known that fast charging causes faster battery degradation. Some prefer prefer the convenience of a removable battery for people that dont have accessible power plug like people living in apartments or condos. Added benefit is that the battery is the most costly component of any ebike. You can remove that component for added security and reduce the chances of theft.
a better comparison would be a Eride pro SS with a DIY in this day and age.
the removable battery is a big advantage for sur ron because if you don't have electricity in your garage you can carry the battery at home
.
and you have not compared the weight of the two bikes, Sur ron is lighter so more maneuverable
and can fit into the trunk of a sedan
.
for the size of the bikes you can increase the seat height of the sur ron with a little DIY and it will be much better for tall people
what is the weight of a sur ron sonny?
@@gilogreenaway2989 50kg
I see the bs sur ron brochure states 47/50 kg. my calibrated industrial scales weigh in my off road version sur ron @ 54kg!
Great video! I wish I watched this before I upgraded my sur Ron! If my time in motorcycles has taught me anything it's that 1 bike is never enough! I look forward to following your tutorial when I attempt to build my second bike!
You people out there need to listen to this guy he cuts to the chase and Lay's it down straight forward all numbers involved. It's nice to hear intelligence for a change It's refreshing a regular gift to my ears. Also in a survival situation you can always use solar or natural gas or wind to recharge anything to spin an alternator out of a junk vehicle or a tank full of grape 🍇 juice to make a battery 🔋 even Gilligan could do that. Batteries can charge batteries.
forgot to throw in the cost of the bike on the dyi. good mtb cost 1000 on up.
Bomber frame max 500.
@@oahu7873 Just got mine 300$
Brilliant video thanks again. Saved me from hassle. The v42 is a real man's bike
Sur ron is a nice bike but if you look at "trials bike" the bikes that jumps on rocks and obstacles that is basically a Sur ron without a seat. Especially the kids version trials bike, adult trials bikes usually weigh around 160 pounds and the 0.5 kids trials bike usually weight about 65 pounds. And guess what I found this weekend on FB marketplace.....a Sherco 0.5 trials bike for cheap with a locked up motor. I already ordered a 5T QS205 on a 19 inch, 800-pound rear shock, Sabvoton 150a, and a pedal crank kit. All I got to do is fabricate a seat and I should be all in for about $1.4k and a full weekend. Great video
my biggest problem with these bikes is the fact that by the time you've spent all the money doing a suron up, you could almost afford a cheaper model zero bike with is in a different league.
Or a KTM freeride
True, personally I'm looking for something that blurs the line between mountain bike and dirt bike. If its sub 50kg I can lift into the back of a campervan... Ideal because when I camp up somewhere but wanna explore/make short trips I can take the lekky' bike and leave the van. I do want good power hub motor, pedals but don't necessary need more than 20-30km range when riding 'enthusiastically'. I have been looking at a 'Stealth F-37' but also building my own really appeals.
@@Outland9000, check my build!
Yes true.. BUT... say you put $3,000 into your sur-run getting it up to power and what not yeah that takes you up to $8,000 which could buy you something different but than your still going to put even more money into that different bike or you really going to ride it stock??
if you are buying a sur ron to upgrade you would be better getting the segway..same frame..just cheaper controller battery forks and wheels.but they would be getting upgraded anyway
the yellow and black one in the background is awesome watched a video on that one.
Watching this, never get's old!
Not biased at all. Saw one of these for sale for £6500 in the uk.
My man is back with a video.
I prefer building one its more fun
I agree completely! It's such a fun project, whether you're in quarantine or not XD
@@ladiandmargaret You compared DIY bike with Sur Ron but you did not compair the prices of the DIY bike?
@@ShaJawad For someone to build their own (like mine), it would cost them $3,600 USD. Sur Ron also sells for $3,600 USD, so that's what I'm comparing. I would build it for others, but for a higher price because I'd need a profit margin. $3,600 is the price of parts for the DIY eBike, while Sur Ron is made cheaper than that. $3,600 goes further when you build it yourself :)
@@ladiandmargaret ahhhh I get it, thanks for breaking it up for me, guess Sur Ron way out of anyone budget, and can you help me with the link to buy the ebike frame with the suspension kit, I checked em3ev but they are out of stock I really like their prices as for 500 USD front fork and rear shock with frame and shipping costs, however their stock out.
@@ladiandmargaret how much to build me one and ship it vero beach Florida USA. Also how long will it take to build it. ?
The surron just looks so much better and I feel like most people would agree. Also it has a good reputation because it is one of the most popular ebikes of today and there's alot of help when trouble shooting (if anything does happen to go wrong) as opposed to these types of bikes. Also customization aesthetic wise on the surron is way broader and better especially decals, seats, fenders, headlights.
The enduro bike frame looks better than the surron and is actually a bigger frame, made to adult size unlike the suron which is the size suitable for a12 year old and requires you to cough up more money than that initial £3000-£5000, cos you have to mod the seat, seat height, and wheels just to get it to an adult ride height. This problem doesnt exist with the enduro frame. You can build that bike for around £3000 tops if you know what youre doing and where to get quality parts for a cheaper price.
Dont get me wrong. I do like the surron. I love that it comes finished out of the box, very little building neccesary and i love that it’s designed with light trail riding in mind unlike the stealth/enduro frame.
But if you arent looking for a trial bike and mainly want a bike for road use, do you really want to spend £5000+ on a bike that fits a small girl much better than it fits a fully sized adult?
I guess it all depends on the person. But most guys, even the short guys are too big for the surron.
Another advantage of the hub drive; less that can go wrong. Getting the power from the mid drive requires some kind of drive system, like a chain. Chains require constant maintenance, and if they're not tensioned right they can just derail and lock up the rear wheel; it happens a fair bit on motorcycles and if you're not an outstanding rider, that will cause a crash. Another thing that can happen is that the chain snaps, with either a wheel lockup or just coasting to a stop as the result. Obviously people use mid drives a lot and they mostly don't fail, but they can.
A good quality oring chain is little maintenance and very reliable,a one way bearing on a midrive would solve any coasting problems you couldnt tweak in programming.-hub motors offroad are dangerous.
Built my 3.3kw and 113nm and a max speed of 74kmh sinewave bike with a 14s 31ah for about 1500, its on a specialized pitch comp 2011 from, 2.4" tyres and 203mm hydraulic brakes from and back, 140mm travel front and rear. Spending that much money on a brand bike just doesn't do it for me. Its way too much fun to build them.
can you please list the parts you used?? I'm interested on building my own in this quarantine time...
@@nicoom i built the bike over years but assuming you have a bike but depending on where you live you might not be able to get stuff right now, but motor and controller from AliExpress, 126cells from nkon, bms from bmsbattery.com, cell holders, battery terminal pads, solder and those bits and bobs from AliExpress too. Just be careful which stores you buy from on AliExpress
The most precious commodity in life is time ( assuming you don't love building DIY bikes, in which case time is not a concern - you're having fun ). So if you work out your hourly 'rate' in terms of the time taken to build a DIY bike, and also add in the fact that your DIY bike has no warranty because you build it ( you might have warranties per component, sure - but this might be limited depending on if you made a mistake wiring it all up ) then buying a pre-assembled bike is just a no-brainer. Having said all this... you just have to love some of these DIY builds! The other issue with DIY build is for on-road use, in most countries you are screwed doing it legally, or if you can do it legally, it can cost an arm and a leg to get it tested, and even then it might not pass the regulations.
The size and the weight is quite big difference. To transport the bike in a car is an important factor. If you you are custom to a mountainbike or bmx, the Sur Ron is the way to go. The DIY E-bike is to big, close to a motocross and takes away the whole felling for it to be as close as possible to a bicycle. And offcourse I rather have 2 batteries then you have to charge for 1,5 hour, that would totally kill the fun if you where on a trip with friends. But if you are custom to a 125 cc motocross and want similar weight and look, maybe DIY Bike is more for you.
Better to have a custom spare battery pack that original Sur Ron. Many battery companies build them based on NMC (3.7v) Prismatic cells, gives them an almost double range for the same price.
I built my own Ebike and after buying a a Suron my DIY Ebike just collects dust. You cannot beat the value of a Suron and it looks gorgeous!
What DIY bike? Most people just do 750W pedal bike conversions.
thanks for sharing the wisdom! i recently discovered E bikes and have been intrigued by how fun and convenient they are!! i am hoping on doing a road trip in the summer around Europe in a Van with a solar panel mounted on the roof rack, that will enable me to charge the bike! first stop was going to be Holland to get some "supplies" but even better! i could collect the bike from Rotterdam on the way!! maybe give the new model a test drive around the Alpine roads in Austria! and up to the eagles nest! thanks again!
11:29 -- As a Texan, I understood you perfectly. ;)
Sadly in Texas the sur ron is illegal because it goes faster than 20 mph
i would like to learn how to do this. i believe the Ebikes are the next revolution to out doors enjoyment.
Epic video. Love the truth and comparing a real combating decision between easy to buy or building one. Loved this
Good video. I prefer mid drives for acceleration and you can gear it for your needs. I'm starting to think about putting a big mid drive motor to a bomber frame and just taking off the pedals. Look at the drill one for example.. btw Ladi I love that neon yellow skeletonized tube frame you built in the background of this video, I'll bet it's light
Great video man. I was going to get a Sur Ron but ended up coming to the same conclusions. I agree they kill it in the looks department, but from my perspective that's actually a bad thing, because even with pedals they still look like a dirt bike, and are bound to get unwanted attention even if they're 100% compliant. Whereas the eeb style looks like a normal bicycle, if maybe a kind of ugly one. But when you're in that gray zone legally speaking, the absolute last thing you want to do is draw attention to yourself by looking flashy. Much better to look like a normal bike and fly in far enough under the radar you can get away with a little extra power/not having pedals/riding on bike paths.
The other thing that I didn't like about the Sur Ron was the range. I'm sure they're great for playing around dirt tracks, but for commuting they just don't have the range. I also didn't know about the noise issue, but that's a big deal to me. It's hard to keep a low profile making all that noise. Even if you're not going fast, the noise gives people the distinct impression that you are.
Update:
So it's almost a year later and I built my homebrewed ebike. One thing I'm going to argue with you about now is the non removeable batteries in the enduro style ebikes. There are three reasons why it's extremely important I think to have removeable batteries:
1. Batteries must be protected from heat and cold. It's my understanding that these batteries will last almost indefinitely if you don't overcharge/over-discharge them, but ONLY if you protect them from temperature extremes. They need to be kept at room temperature the vast majority of the time to get good life out of them. This means having to bring the bike into your apartment and or place of work/school, which of course isn't usually possible, and a hassle even if it's allowed. So for that reason alone I'm trying to figure out how to mod my eeb to make the battery quickly removable without tools, which is going to be quite the challenge I think.
2. Just because you might have a big battery doesn't mean you shouldn't top it off while at work or school. The closer you can keep the battery to 50% charge at all times, the longer it will last. So if you can only charge to 75% to make it to work before it goes below 50%, then top it off while at work back to 75%, that's going to drastically increase your battery life. Vs. if you have to charge to say 90% and discharge to 20% to make it both ways without a top off. Also keep in mind that the lower the amps you charge at (meaning long charge times), the longer the battery will last. These batteries can last a LONG, LONG time, but they can also be used up within a year if not treated right. If going from full to dead and letting them sit out in the heat and cold, you might get 500 cycles, vs. 2,000 or more cycles if treated well.
3. The weight on these batteries is restrictive in terms of what you can do with the bike. For example, the buses here have bike racks, but you have to be able to physically lift the bike up onto the rack. My bike weighs 150 lbs, and I can barely lift it due to the awkwardness of it. There are no good places to grab, and lifting it more than a few inches off the ground is precarious at best. The battery weighs like 50 lbs though, so if the battery could be easily removed and carried by a handle, you could simply remove the battery, lift the bike up onto the rack, and carry the battery onto the bus with you. Ditto for taking the bike on car rides with bike racks.
4. It does in fact make sense to have multiple batteries, and either run them in parallel or have two different sizes (or all of the above). You don't always go far. Usually you just go around the corner, but sometimes you might want to go 50 miles. So range extenders make a huge amount of sense, because it allows you to make the bike lighter for those short trips. Which again has advantages in terms of hoisting the bike onto bus racks, and just in general handling it wherever you have to manually pick it up to get up stairs or something. As we all know all too well, bike paths don't always connect, and you often find yourself having to do some kind of strange stuff in terms of getting the bike up stairs and over obstacles you can't ride. Or even just pushing the bike down a sidewalk where bikes aren't allowed.
So yea, that's the major weakness of these enduro style ebikes imo is that the batteries aren't easily and quickly removeable. I think the best path going forward is to set a community standard for battery dimension and mounting, and the Sur Ron system seems to work really well. Of course some kind of quick connect system like on the commercial ebikes would be nice, but maybe that's a bridge too far for open source, idk.
I'm trying to make his bike now, waiting for the parts to come through shipping and customs, I figure people are more likely to want to steal Sur Ron because it look cooler and they might recognize it, but a major factor for me is that if something breaks or comes loose or has a problem, i'm more likely to know how to fix it, Sur Ron probably less likely to go wrong because expert made it but if it does have a problem it might be way harder to deal with. I'm worried about getting unwanted attention from LE yes, I think I will avoid getting the motorbike style seat at least initially for that reason, also try to predict where and when the patrol cars are likely to be.
@@ash0787 Have you seen Brooks saddles? They have some wide ones that I think would actually be more comfortable than the moto style seats available for the ebikes. Especially since you can adjust the height for your size and riding posture. But yea, I think the bicycle seat goes a long ways to making them look a lot less like motorcycles.
Have you checked the laws in your state? My state allows unregistered, unlicensed scooters under 1kw. If you jailbreak it it's technically illegal, but I think as long as you use a lot of discretion about how fast you ride and mind your manners around other cyclists and pedestrians that would go a long ways to getting a pass. But then on like back dirt roads nobody's going to care if you tear it up. Around here, people ride dirt bikes, ATVs, and golf carts around town all the time and nobody seems to care.
Not saying the suron dont look good, but in my opinion the enduro bike frame looks better than the surron and more importantly, is actually a bigger frame, made to adult size unlike the suron which is the size suitable for a12 year old and requires you to cough up more money than that initial £3000-£5000, cos you have to mod the seat, seat height, forks and wheels just to get it to an adult ride height. Thats just far too much work and unnecessary extra money spent for something that should have just come out right and propper straight out of the box. This problem doesnt exist with the enduro frame. You can build that bike for around £3000 tops if you know what youre doing and where to get quality parts for a cheaper price.
Dont get me wrong. I do like the surron. I love that it comes finished out of the box (minus its size) with very little building neccesary and i love that it’s designed with light trail riding in mind unlike the stealth/enduro frame.
But if you arent looking for a trial bike, do you really want to spend £5000+ on a bike that fits a small girl much better than it fits a fully sized adult?
I guess it all depends on the person. But most guys, even the short guys are too big for the surron.
Surron comparing to gas vehicles is not that loud, But still you’re right with everything
Well. the obvious advantage to diy is that you can decide where you want to put more money, and where good enough is good enough.
You also get to select parts that wouldn't make sense to a consumer builder - like a top dollar controller, though your battery can't supply anywhere near the current capacity of the controller.
But you do this because the battery is to get you going - you already have an upgrade in mind.
Or you want lots of power, but mediocre brakes are ok, because you are building an off road camping bike that hauls a trailer through snow and mud and sand, and never go fast.
High end ebikes usually means aluminum frames, which are less strong, and harder to weld.
Shaving 5 pounds off a 30 lb bike you peddle is a big deal - not so much with a 100 lb bike with 20kw pk power.
And with diy, you can take advantage of parts you run across at deep discount, and you can sit and wait for just the right cells to come up at the right price on the secondary market.
That's really what it comes down to: do you need mid-drive or not? If you don't, you're crazy to buy a Sur Ron (assuming you have DIY skills). I do wish they made a version of the Sur Ron in a larger frame though. I ride almost exclusively off-road (single & double track), and I currently ride a size large 2000W modified ebike (true bicycle frame, not EEB). It's a blast, and it only weighs 55 lbs, but I'd love an electric motorcycle too. I might just end up on a Zero FX.
Totaly agree. Why the hell would a manufacturer make such a tiny framed E-Bike. If They made one real sized people and not Hobbits id probably consider, but on the other hand im builder and tinkerer, so id love to give a build a go.
Have a Sur Ron. Its great! Easy and fun. I cannot wait to see you compare a ride on a MTB trail with your DYI vs. Sur Ron. Mid drive over a Hub dirve any day. If all you do is street riding then I am sure your bike would be great.
I would bet i use my hub based build in harsher place than loads of Sur-ron riders.Hubs can still ride very well if setup correctly.ruclips.net/video/As_KrppG7R4/видео.html
@@fpvlee1586 yeah but can your bike handle the "sam pilgrim" Challenge ?
Cause he got on a sur-ron and hit 20-40ft jumps doing back flips craziness a hub motor would 100% break 1st ride bye Sam pilgrim check out his channel. He likes the sur-ron more than his cake
lots of reasonable/fair points comparing the two, but an upgraded surron is not even in the same league as your 13kw hub motor, particularly off-road, but even on road... I say this as someone who has a surron and a 10kw stealth fighter... the 10kw fighter is on par with the 6.7kw (stock battery, nucular controller) surron (only on the road), only slightly faster acceleration above about 50kmh. Offroad it doesn't stand a chance, and overheats far quicker (mxus v3 with hubsinks/statoraid). With a new battery i'd have closer to 20kw on the surron. That and the size issues you state - the exact same fixes that you did for your own bike work for a surron. A stem riser / riser bars can be had for less than $50, was enough for me at 6'1.
Also not counting your time in the comparison... works out of the box vs fair bit of your own work.
the thing thats stopping me from building a bike is the fact that i cant find a good source for parts and the money that it takes to buy the parts and also the lack of knowledge i have when it comes to building an e bike.
Can you talk about how much battery power you need if you plan on taking an ebike while traveling and living in a van!?
hey depend on how far and how fast you want to go
how far how fast?
@Robin you need HOBOTECH’s channel. He does exactly what you’re planning. Have wicked fun!
Excellent Video and I also learn some new knowledge .
Lads. Newbie to the channel from Canada 🇨🇦 ! I’ve had some spare time recently, and had initially been attracted to “Cab Motor Works - Recon” sold out of California. And then I saw the price they ask for their “package”. After a few days on RUclips I landed here. And You my new friend just saved me about $6k USD in completely unnecessary “packager markup” !!! I’m ready to order a frame now (EEB ) but am somewhat sceptical of its timing arriving here from China. I’m willing to take that risk tho ! Stay safe out there fellas.
I ordered my DIY e-bike frame and motor kit from China as well. It was FedEx over in four large boxes within a few days including the RockShox front fork. I spent a lot of time with my seller to get what I wanted. That was almost 3 years ago and now I have some 3600 miles on my e-bike. The year round riding in California also helps to enjoy biking. 😎
If you're doing a high powered setup (not "normal" commercial e-bike speeds), don't use the stock ESC included in the kit. See if you can work in a sine wave ESC like the Sabvoton or skip the stock ESC and get your own Sabvoton separately. It totally boosted my power and gave nearly silent propulsion. It is soo much fine to ride like riding on a cloud. Its even more fun knowing you built it yourself at or close to your specifications with power, wiring, and upgrades done by yourself.
Rotormatic thank you for the advice it has been well noted ! As the hours tick by I keep finding even more info and it’s greatly appreciated. I’m pretty sure I can make my own “Recon” spec for less than half the “MSRP” now.
Rotormatic something tells me shipping times from overseas will be lengthy though. Time will tell
I went with the sur Ron, light speed 72v battery and bac8000
Nice, I'm waiting on my order. Which 72v did you go with, LG or Sony, n with the 300 amp upgrade?
Ben Pitchford I did the high power light speed with 300 amp option. I don’t remember if it’s LG or Sony cells
@@dasppg9737 Nice! The extra power n range must be awesome to have
I've watched the ebike scene back when they were all just DIY garage projects with bikes, hub motors, and lipos in a carry bag. And it was great to see over the years ebikes getting more serious and people coming out with real frames with battery compartments made for ebikes. When Sur Ron came out, it finally felt like a real company decided to design a professional ebike for the masses, which is what they did. You cant make that Surron frame from simple welds, you need industrial machines that ordinary mom and pop shop companies cannot afford, let alone replicate. And you see that level of quality throughout the bike. Even for DIY'ers its an excellent base platform to start with. I just wish they had a bigger battery compartment for more range.
For the price, Surron has basically set the new norm, and in order to compete you need a corporation with deep pockets to produce a similar ebike. DIY ebike companies just have to carve out their own niche within the ebike scene and focus on that, but for the general public who are looking for a serious ebike at a sensible price Sur ron is pretty much it for now.
Thanks so much for making this. Just influenced me to build a bike instead of buying one. Used to build gas powered bikes and excited to make the jump.
Hope you do jeffrey, i got a feeling this is going to get big one day.
I wish I could give this video a three thumbs up! You make a lot of really good points.
Thanks Rick, staying objective is my lifetime goal 👍
You are one of the best ebike builders💯👍👍
Hi Ladislav, thanks for sharing this info. Your DIY bike is great and far better than my Cyberchopper haha.
Not only did you just do a dope video you hit the people with some knowledge too 🤙🏽
I LOVE THE ACCENT , WORSE THAN MINE, ITS GREAT, MY CHANNEL NOT AS BIG BUT I LOVE WHAT YOU ARE DOING , I SUBSCRIBED !
I got directdrive hub in my new bike, and it is sweet. It is only 1500w, but fast enough for me. Whole set cost about 400e whit battery, and I can build battery myself. This case I didn't have time for that. 50kph gps speed and pulls well. I have rear sidemotor whit chaing drive in other bike, it is loud and raw, but actually slower. In that I can change gear ratio to accelerate faster, but top speed drops as well. It was even cheaper set. My game is to build bikes whit coins.
people buy sur ron because the design of the frame is actually the best of the world. the design is important now, people want a modern design for this price. you bike is very cool and is better in performance than sur ron, there is no dubt abbout it, but the design of the frame is fondamental. that why i will not buy a sur ron, i will wait a V2 version of your ebike. (if you make a modern design frame!). your work is excellent, and i will still follow it! thank you. in france the price of sur ron with french reseller is 4500 euros
Everything is clear! Like your videos!!!
He sounds pretty smart 🤓 to me. Apparently knows how to research. And understands development 👌 👏. You know R and D.
og du lyder temmelig optaget af at høre eller se dine egne kommentar ..
Thanks Ladi!!!
small frame on the sur ron could be a deal breaker yeah.. I've never ridden a BMX style bike but even on my 1500w MTB my knees ache a bit sometimes.
If I want to make a DIY sur ron equivalent i've probably got to weld the batteries ... not easy to do, solder everything. I need a frame which is wide enough to fit the motor
and the rear disk brake at the same time ( mine cannot ! ), to get a good base bike with good suspension new... it can be £2000. Sur ron probably has better frame and suspension that most MTB no ? You don't need to be able to do 60+ mph thats ridiculous. Stock sur ron is fast enough for most people...
no, its a ridiculous price for a shitty bike
Your videos are so good, thank you so much
So you comparing a stock Sur ron x against a custom bike. Sur ron you can upgrade to a 72v 4000w battery and 8000 controller that gives the bike 18kw for top speed of 80+ mph. You can also get front/rear shocks, sprockets, wheels and custom body works.
Thank you for your video. I was looking into buying one of these ebikes, but you make a good.point on building your own ebike. I was wondering do you have any how to videos on building these bikes from start to finish?
Again, thank you for this video. Great points you made.
MySuperEbike.com
DIY a bike or buy one that is actually good enough for you if its affordable.
Buying a bike and THEN DIY upgrades spending more money and time is a bit silly imho.
I'd build one of these but here in the UK the police would confiscate it soon as looking at it.
My own builds from old bikes and hub motors still look like normal bikes so police don't bother and I also bought a Frey ex for more fun off road.
Shame that the law is the thing that holds me back and is slowing progress in this field though.
We purchased this Vivi 27.5” electric bike and a Tentaquil 26” electric bike for our 13 and 14 year olds. ruclips.net/user/postUgkxUiL0GnyDjP32RJdd660sP8mZk4CRLTCJ The Vivi was much easier to put together. With the Vivi, there was a video link to assist with assembly which made the process easier to follow (we did put the handlebars on upside down, but it was a quick and easy fix). With the Tentaquil, the assembly was not as simple to follow, but after we messaged the company for an assembly video, it was easier and they did respond quickly. The other major differences were that the Vivi has a grip throttle on the right handle (like a motorcycle) and the Tentaquil has a push throttle that you use your thumb to activate. The monitors were also different, so if you’re looking for something specific in terms of changing the bikes functions, pay attention to what the monitor offers. We were really impressed with the overall quality and functionality of both bikes, but if you’re looking for more power and an easier assembly, definitely go with the Vivi!
The price is different for the reasons you say. You can start with a cheaper bike and then when your needs change you can add more to it or never add more to it. You don't have to make your sur ron into that bike. Because like you said your bike is the bike you probably should get if that is the case. What you also failed to mention is the Sur Ron is a dirt bike and that's what most people get it for. You wouldn't put super moto wheels to ride it as a dirt bike or even as a trail bike.
we need to find a way to make these street legal man thats the only thing stopping me from building one. Even if i could use it in the bike lane id be happy!
I made a ebike for 26 euros, it uses a hoverboard motor and battery and a cheap china controller, chain and sprokets from old bike. It only goes 36kmh tho :/
That’s great!
around 22mph for about $28usd is actually pretty freaking awesome. Awesome job!
Hot swop is the term for pull out and plug baxk in stuff
I believe that the higher amps you charge the battery with the less cycles you will get out of the battery.
Tesla megatrucks recharger 273kw lol I personally wouldn't try a diy ebike over 10a but in theory some cells can safely recharge over 30a+
i usually buy the pit bikes off amazon strip them if their engine tank etc and add batteries etc
Diy good geometry and travel frame then good middrive amd battery on downtube secured tightly annd 26....DIY all the way DH
Ive got the same rear wheel on my ebike! if that was a 1500w hub motor with Chinese RED/Violet color! :-) and yes good video
Ebikes are bicycles with a motor and battery. If you don't build your own then your making it more expensive for everyone. The retailers of complete ebikes get asked by lawmakers what laws should be made. An they make laws to match their underrated (watts) motors. Watch out for kits to go up in price as this gets more popular because they'll need to constantly change their specs and kill model productions as the world becomes some crazy matrix of laws on motor watts and battery volts. Good luck people
Thanks for the video Ladislav.
I love the diy part it's better. More power and more speed and range.
It's like a peptalk to not be a dumb ass and build my own bike!!
The loudness is an non argument. The mid drive wins. But people get surron because of the tested frame and total weight. It's very different to drive 60 vs 100kg or even 80kg bike. Also mid drive allows for teeth adjustment.
Pedals are unwanted for offroad driving.
You forgot. Surron is road legal. The diy is not.
Over 2 years I’ve been studying, electric bikes an scooters an believe me aint no one better than you, 😎😎😎 worry not an just keep smiling an do wa you do best 😎😎😎
Thanks a lot Vincent!
You just stated another idea I freaking love I don't have to have all that money up front I can buy on eBay I guess you say I like the do and learn new things as I go to there is just so many positives here with your ebike thank you I'm really excited more than ever now that I've found your channel thank you I'm here in the USA so I guess everything is a premium cost and taxed the good ol USA a country based on theft yes I'm saying it jokingly but it's true look at the native Americans already here they don't call the trail of tears rout a happy time in our history sorry bout that I gotta get back to your videos
I want to learn I'm in the middle of the hub of America! I want to bring what you build here !
Hii.a great fan of your work on e bike...can you make a full video describing each and every components and how and why to choose those components... please
I have a rion RE60.. This diy bike is my next toy
Don’t get me wrong if I could afford one I’d buy it for the simplicity but I’m not spending 3-5k for something I can build for 1.5k give or take for budget purposes or if I’m just tryna be as expressive as possible with it
I thank you! I don't like it when people talk slow.
Wow you hub guys almost make hub motors sound better than mid drive and make lightweight bikes sound like a disadvantage.
L1e Sur ron in Latvia cost 3900€. Now I live in a flat not house. Have basement but there is no charging point. To drive out I need to fight with 6 stairs. So quick removable battery and 47kg weight for sur ron is unbeatable advantage. L1e you can ride at 45km/h but if you fly some 80 km/h you will pay for it no some inspection expertise or something. So I have diy bike but if money wasn't a problem I would go for L1e sur ron.
Great video. Great info. Thanks. I needed this comparison.
Excellent video I'm 66 years old and I can't wait to get my bike. I've spent hours and hours and hours on RUclips checking out all that I can. I started out thinking the best way to do it would be a conversion kit. Then I ended up looking at everything in between. I'm back to thinking building my own would be the best way to go. How is it that delfast 3.0 can claim they get a 200 mile range? is it because they use really really big batteries?
No, it’s only because it’s very vague number. It means you would need to ride like 5kmh, no wind, 50kg rider, perfect road, street tires etc. realistic will be 60km range.
my question is...how can anyone get your bike if you only ship within Europe ? does that mean then only European's can get it then right? second I think everyone gets the Suron because its legal to use in many races that have strict limits of what type of bikes they can use and that bike fits the right contest for some people and still be able to be used for streets to get back home and use and if they get stopped they can prove its legal and well someone riding the diy one might be stopped and fined right away.
Class video dude 👍
Sorry pal didn’t watch video until the end have done now all info I needed
My question is what IF we're shorter like 5' 7" or 5' 9" Is there a frame size to accommodate us?
yeah shorter paddles. shorter handlebars, off you go! cheers
@@grandmaster-grouch lmao thank you sir
Smaller wheels too
What about 5’
@@qandq1300 im afraid theres no solution for 5fters.. jp! lol my wife is 5' yes theres a solution. you need to go to a specialist and get measured like you would for a fitted suit. cheers