Unraveling the Disturbing Curse of Stormveil Castle in Elden Ring - Lore Theory and Speculation
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- Опубликовано: 2 май 2024
- Stormveil Castle is one of my favorite spots in Elden Ring, but somehow I never noticed that it's being destroyed from the inside from a strange mottling curse covering it with holes and thorns...
I welcome you tarnished, to join me on a cinematic adventure as I explore some interesting theories and speculation on the cause of the holes eating through the castle's walls and soldiers. I discuss the mystery of the morbid face, a sacred relic of Godwyn, hiding in Stormveil’s basement. Why is this happening? How did this weird face end up in Stormveil? How do Godrick and grafting tie into all of this?
Are you ready to uncover the secrets hidden within the depths of Stormveil Castle? Join me in a discussion in the comments section about the truth behind Marika's tragic child, Godwyn the Golden, his cursed corpse and the spread of deathroot and the rune of death throughout the Lands Between.
With the Shadow of the Erdtree DLC around the corner, now is a fun time to speculate!
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Been genuinely blown away by the reception here guys! Thanks so much for watching. Some people have asked about supporting my small channel so I'll just drop some links but no pressure! Appreciate you all 🙏
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Phenomenal video. Looking forward to future content
"stormveil castle itself has a cancer" yeah its gostoc
While most of Elden Ring's music is pretty somber and dark, I always felt curious about how Stormveil's music feels like it's a prelude to something very bad about to happen. Like we are really not supposed to be here. It has this foreboding element to it that Godrick isn't the main threat of the castle, and we ought to not hang around too long, less the real danger unfolds.
Agreed! I wish I could use the official music without fear of a strike. Such a cool ominous feel to it that really adds to the overall vibe.
agreed. a prelude/forewarning. much like how Margit stopped us before the gate. it rhymes.
Great observation! I agree, and Stormveil's theme is one of my favorite. I just like to hang out there and be hypnotized by the ambience
I agree with the question posed, why are the stormveil pock marks so different from every deathroot-related landmarks? Strange how the stormveil artifact behaves so differently.
The name itself, "Stormveil", could suggest there's something 'veiled' behind it. FromSoft is usually very deliberate in their usage of specific words so I always thought there was more to the castle than we currently know.
In vers 1.00 the Exile guard helms and armor directly speak about the curse and the need to keep one's face and body covered, lest exposure lead to infection.
THAT'S SO COOL! Thank you for the knowledge drop @falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962!
oh hell yeah this info is awesome
How great that I'm usually running around the castle half naked for better dodges
I think the fact that you can find the Godskin Prayerbook and the Godslayer’s Seal in Stormveil Castle further reinforces this theory. Perhaps grafting Demigods is a different/more difficult process than grafting Tarnished, and the book and seal were there for Godrick to study how the Godskins graft the skin of Gods/Demigods to their own?
That would open up a whole new can of worms as to how he’d even get his many, many hands on such a thing. Did he know a Godskin personally? Were the Prayerbook & Seal some of the treasures he took when fleeing the Capital? (in which case what were Godskin-related relics even doing there?) If the book was studied by Godrick, why doesn’t he use any Black Flame when we fight him? Was he unable to master it?
I’d be very surprised if it wasn’t his, because there’s no one else in Stormveil Castle who would have any use for it. Another thing tying them together, is the fact that Godskins and Dragons seem to have something to do with one another, particularly in Farum Azula with the mummified Dragon Head in the Godskin Duo Boss Room, and the Divine Towers with the Cursemark of Death in Liurnia, and the Dragon Imagery of the Divine Towers, particularly the one in Caelid. Less relevant, but still notable, is the Godskin Noble in Volcano Manor in the Temple of Eiglay.
Godrick grafts a Dragon to his arm, calling it “O Kindred” implying some kind of relation? Maybe he knows something we don’t about the Godskins, Dragons, and/or the Golden Lineage…
Fascinating...the presence of a Godskin Noble in Eiglay paints a picture of Godskins traveling out into the world from their headquarters in Farum Azula to influence the direction of culture in the post-Shattering age.
A Godskin influenced Rykard, encouraging him to birth Serpentmen.
Perhaps a Godskin influenced Godrick, leading him to graft a drake.
Who else are Godskins trying to influence?
Yes I think you're right about that. We have evidence of Godskins all over the Lands Between, from Divine Tower of Caelid to Windmill Village and even Iji's death by black flame. The Gloam Eyed Queen's enforcers are widespread and were probably even more so before her defeat to Maliketh when she was an empyrean of the Two Fingers (src: godslayer greatsword, black flame ritual, godskin apostle set). The prayerbook and seal are likely spoils of that victory.
I’ve wondered if grafting can be done differently by different people, and that all the ones we’ve seen are “messy experiments” made by Godrick.
@@DavidStavisGodskins are implied to endorse everyone fighting against the Erdtree, you can find one in Ranni Divine Tower aswell.
One being worshipped by the Celebrants at the windmill village, and even Fire Monks who converted to the Black Flame, them being traveling priests inciting people to take down the Golden Order is actually a very solid affirmation.
I would argue that after Marika defeated the gloam eyed queen, she took away a prayerbook and seal, either for study or safekeeping. Godrick calling the dragon "Oh Kindred" might be related to the age of the crucible, in which the dragons ruled suppreme, so him being of the blood of an Elden Lord, and the dragons/lesser dragons being of the blood of a previous Elden Lord might have something to do with it, even though this is a very far stretch, even for me. Im however very sure, that it has something to do with the dragons having ruled the lands between before, and him being of the ruling class now.
these sore-like marks on the sides of Stormveil have been living rent free in my head for 2 years now.
I legit never noticed them despite playing this game since launch 🙃
@@ZayftheScholar they're really easy to miss within all the other devastation in and around the castle!!
@@ZayftheScholar thanks for making this, i'm glad to see more discussion around it on youtube
Totally! I thought the castle was just wrecked! I mean it is... but like many things in Elden Ring it goes deeper than that.
No, Thank you for taking the time to watch and comment!
I think the Pustule itself is what caused the curse. It's not wholly unreasonable, we've had other items in other From games being massively important lore objects that the players just equip as trinkets. The Pustule was the piece of Godwyn's corpse, whether already a bubbling Pustule or not, and became what we find it as after it was thrown into the depths of the castle when Godrick realised he couldn't/shouldn't graft with it.
the item description also says the pustule was "taken from facial flesh". and since godwyn couldn't die, most likely the pustule started regenerating the whole face.
I had a similar theory to this. Mine was that Godrick got his Great Rune from grafting a peice of Godwyn to his body which spread the deathblight throughout the castle.
That would go along with why godrick claims to be the lord of "all that is golden" dispite that being godwyn's title
@@markop.1994 I had also speculated that he isn't even a proper child of Marika and that he became one through his grafting of Godwyn's body. This would explain how we have Godefory. They are so similiar because they are simply just commoners that grafted themselves to the Golden Lineage.
I dont agree with this only because he has a chair like the rest of the demigods . He made a name for himself like Marika ordered all of her children . I doubt Marika would allowed him to have a seat if he was unrelated and especially if he grafted Godwyn. The person's death that sent her off the deep end .@@hex_gekko29568
Godwyn is never actually tied to anything golden. Besides his blond hair. But he is never specific called godwyn the golden or anything near that. It's a misconception people have about him.
We are never actually told who his father is.@@markop.1994
@@hex_gekko29568 He technically is a child of Marika, but his blood is heavily diluted. Even the demigods of Rennala and Radagon are called of Marikas blood, but that can be argued away with "Radagon is Marika", or alternatively, that they were accepted into the family of her, after Radagon remarried.
I knew about the thorns all over the castle, but I always just assumed the holes were from some old battle, like how you can see craters all over the ground in front of Leyndell. When you really think about it though they show up in some impossible places, like on the sides of a sheer cliff bordering the ocean
Amphibious assault and siege ships?
Dragon or Gargoyle attack? Quite a few flying creatures to pick from, and the holes which punch right through a wall have a matching crater on the next wall in. The initial damage is most definitely from an attack on the castle. Looking at spells like Comet Azure since the holes are in a straight line.
So are the craters a weakness in the castle, which allows the thorns to take root (like an infected wound), or is it Godwyn's presence in the walls creating some kind of "healing" effect (like scar tissue).
the holes are bulging outward meaning if they come from being blown through a wall, it was a blast coming from the inside aimed at outside, which then still doesnt explain the thorns or the discolorations.
alternative theory: thorns are mentioned to be connected to "the mother of truths" mentioned on the great stars / flame worshipper items so it could be connected to that. @@phoephoe795
In this line of thinking, the weapons used could be explosive or fiery in nature, with the blackened and scarred substance left in the craters being melted material such as slag, or perhaps residue left over from whatever alchemical or magical reaction was used?
Perhaps it was discovered that Godrick had stolen valuable items upon his exile, such as a Godskin, and Leyendell sent forces in an attempt to siege and reclaim their stolen property? Hell, it could even be that the malignancy festering upon the Castle is a direct result of their siege?
I also assumed it was caused by siege weapons, infused with some curse or enchantment that made the thorns grow-like how ivy damages walls, but sped up to weaponize.
I love the idea of a stolen relic being the cause. Honestly this makes me imagine a narrative of Godrick trying to use a piece of Godwyn for grafting, to boost his royal claim, but for one reason or another it fails-- maybe every piece of Godwyn's flesh carries the deathroot affliction. Godrick, impulsive and angry, tosses the relic down into the depths where it starts growing into the face of Godwyn and starts infecting the castle. There's scraps of fabric around the scene which suggest there were attempts to cover it up, to no avail.
It is a cool parallel, that Godrick can only graft other limbs to him, while Godwyn's corpse (a part of it) can graft with the castle itself. Apart form the story implications, really shows how far Godrick is from what he aspires to be.
Godwyn seemed to have commanded respect, which is why you see he still has influence, while Godrick's influence does not extend his strength. Even his other castles have fallen.
Also there could be something to say about how Godwyn's hollow corpse spawned a cult, yet he has no agency in it because he's dead. The image of a saint being used for ulterior motives after their death, for good or ill.
5:55 I never noticed that Torrent leaves footprints on the ground..
dude, you blew my mind with my own video! 😂 I never noticed that either!
hoofprints ;)
Very well thought out. I always wondered why that creepy-ass face was down there in the depths of the castle. Your theory makes a lot of sense that Godrick probably smuggled out a piece of Godwyn from Leyndell when he was exiled.
Or it's the previous leader that ruled stormveil
@@qualiswilliams7403 I've my doubts on that. The previous ruler of Stormveil fell in battle against Godfrey, which probably took place some time before the war against the Fire Giants, before Godfrey & the Tarnished were banished to their Long March, and even longer before the Night of Black Knives. Even if interacting with Those Who Live in Death was considered sacrilegious, Godrick likely cared more so about acquiring relics pertaining to the Golden Lineage as he made his escape from Leyndell. The castle itself, a trophy of Godfrey's victories, would have passed down throughout the generations, and its depths offered the perfect hiding spot for something as dangerous as a piece of the Death Prince. Imagine him grafting something as revoltingly powerful as that Deathroot husk onto himself; it could kill him on the spot, or it could make him into something much worse.
@@jefftheindianchief8279 id imagine if it was actually Godwin we'd see some signs of death...no demigod in the era of the golden order had been killed but we see there's a finger slayer blade and destined death use to be held by someone other than maliketh. Any history before the golden order is somewhat speculative because the order of events is out of sorts before the war that led to marika being the elden consort...I'm not saying it is the old lord I'm just not sure about godwyn either because there's no deathroot or anything that lives in death near or around it
@@jefftheindianchief8279Uh, not quite. While there's a mention that Godfrey faced the Stormlord on his own, there's no mention of the Stormlord actually being slain.
One theory goes that Placidusax is the Stormlord, having fled after his battle with Godfrey to the eye of the 'storm outside time'. Likewise we don't know the ultimate fate of the warrior who forged the Grafted Blade Greatsword, despite the implication that he was slain as well.
So, I've always felt that Stormveil once belonged to Godwyn, which is why Godrick chose it as his base of operations. With that in mind, the site of the relic is probably where he was slain (the area kinda matches with the art of his death as well), and it's likely that his flesh and blood seeped out until his body was retrieved.
As far as the "wounds" in the castle itself, I think it has to do with both Godwyn's death within the castle, and the Godrick's grafting. A lot of killing (and therefore death) goes into grafting, so that much condensed death must have an affect on the relic.
Hmm so you think he was killed in Stormveil and then his remains were interred in Leyndell before they understood what the curse was? How did he get to the Deeproot Depths?
Perhaps they tried to feed him to the Erdtree roots in an Erdtree burial and it couldn't pull his soul out and instead just started sucking up deathblight?
@@NewMitchell-wh3fj Can't remember where it says exactly but Godwyn was brought to the Deeproot depths in hopes that burying him along the Erdtree's roots could help his curse. Needless to say, it did not go as planned.
It is pretty explicit Nobk happened in Leyndell and thus godwyn was killed there. Black knife Tiche description mentions black knight assassins fled the royal capital
@@xaitat I don't think it's that clear cut as you make it sound. Yes we know Godwyn was killed that night, and that at least Tiche and her mother were in Leyndell, but the rest is speculation.
The Black Knives going to the capital could have been a distraction, and/or a way to kill more demigods beyond Godwyn. We know that Godwyn was the first of the demigods to die, implying that more followed after. Yes, it could just be hinting at Ranni, but her death and part in the whole event seems to be largely kept under wraps. That, and we know that Markia had a lot more children that are not alive by the start of the game.
@@bSoulless000 it's just the most simple intuitive explanation, you'd have no doubt about this if you hadn't thought of godwyn's death being in stormveil before. Occam's razor really, complicating things with decoys and attacks on multiple locations doesn't make much sense
it could also be that that spot under stormveil is where godrick was killed. we know he was carried to the roots of the erdree from somehwere else, so it may not be too much of a stretch that the attack was carried out there in stormveil. maybe that would explain why the thorny vines look so odd compared to deathblight, either witht the removal of the corpse the vines grew weaker, less normal deathblight-ish, or the vines in stormveil are an early form of deathblight not fully changed by godwyns control over them yet
this might also explain why the head under the castle is upside down on the body. They removed the real head to carry it to the tree, and the body grew a new one, poorly.
it could also be that the regular deathblight only comes from it's connection with the erdtree. And the stormveil castle throrns happen without that connection (and as a manifestation of all that sin there, as someone here pointed out).
Legendary ashen remains.
Use to summon the spirit of Black Knife Tiche.
Tiche was one of the assassins who,
on the night of the plot,
imbued her black knife with the Rune of Death
and slew Godwyn the Golden.
She was the daughter of the Black Knife Ringleader, Alecto,
and was killed protecting her mother during their flight from the royal capital.
Godwyn was killed in Leyndell.
@@ArisildeGodwyn's head is not upside down, it's tilted
@@xaitat Looking at the body model, it's like 180 degrees from how it should be oriented.
The gashes and holes within the western wall are somehow caused by the storm winds imo. This is also why the exile soldiers cover their body with a red cloth.
I wrote a theory on this last year. Basically it's that the storm winds are cursed by the spirits of the tarnished that have been grafted within the castle.
Nepheli mentions how "the winds run foul with his(Godricks's) deeds" or "he's tainted the very winds". And Roderika mentions the suffering of the spirits that have been grafted.
This makes sense with Deathblight's own manifestations. If we take in consideration the location of every deathroot we find, we discover they are always linked to a place of death either by being a graveyeard or a battlefield of some sort (places where alot of death occured). So most likely Godrick might have stolen the relic from Leyndel, but due to his grafting caused it to "awaken" in some twisted form.
If we also consider that thorns are heavily associated with guilt and sin in Elden Ring (i.e: aberrant sorceries, Staff of the Guilty, Guilty Hood) then it could be that the stolen relic mutated with Godrick's sins of grafting causing this fucked up infection around the castle different from the standard Godwyn Manifestation. So the winds carry the infected sin throughout the castle which is why outside looks more fucked up then the inside, but if interacting deeply with the relic (like Rogier did) then you become actually deathblighted.
@@LucacielOfMirrah Yeah, I l like the theory. When I wrote my theory for some reason I completely pushed the idea of Godwyns influence on the "curse" aside. But I can definetly see that it could have some influence.
Except there's a secret cavern under the castle with a whole second Godwyn growing in it. It's 100% deathblight.
@@AtillaTheSean You're right. Deathblight causes gashes and holes as well as white thorny vines everywhere it appears throughout the lands between.
Thankyou, I love it when I learn something new (and interesting).
Just… so insanely imaginative. It’s like he sticks with the flash card combos no matter what… “what if a CASTLE had like… CANCER? Give me that!” It’s the only game that has effectively disturbing and just… gross… architecture.
Play Scorn.
This all makes so much sense… I feel like perhaps, the head and its effects reflect a more “benign” version of the curse? It seems like grafted limbs often end up being weaker than their un-grafted counterparts, as instead of working as part of a harmonious whole, they become part of a mismatched menagerie of parts that don’t all seem to fit well together.
In this case, the body below Stormveil might be able to mimic the effects of Godwynn’s corpse, but without the same potency. Instead of the tendrils commonly associated with Godwynn’s corpse, thorny vines overtake the landscape while an aching void takes the place of the characteristic mounds of deathroot.
I’m not sure, but it’s definitely got me thinking.
I'm relieved to hear it makes sense actually! Was concerned I might be overlooking something that invalidated the whole thing
This is what I was thinking as well. I've heard other people mention that perhaps Godwyn was slain down there and his blood seeped into the groud, but I like the explanation of Godrick taking a relic to graft and perhaps the grafting ended up not really working, leading him to throw it away or something. From there, the relic's effects could be diluted, in a way, but like you said, it still mimics the death thorns from the full body of Godwyn.
Here are my general thoughts on this... from its appearance alone, the misshapen corpse is implied to have undergone the same ritualistic killing as Godwyn, as for it being deathroot or not, it most definitely is. The tentacles eminating from the corpse itself still have the characteristics of deathrooy, what with the thorns and portruding insect wings, not to mention Rogier becoming afflicted with deathroot after having performed his research there. A little sidenote: in Japanese culture and mythology, something that is deeply symbolic of death is stagnant water. Without the replacement of water through some kind of stream, bodies of water tend to build to large colonies of bacteria which later becomes largely toxic. Stagnant waters are also the favourite breeding ground for pestilent flies who live most of their larval lives underwater until sprouting wings and leaving their murky nursery. It could lead one to assume that the insect wings aren't merely a visual metaphor, but those are *actual* flies being born out of stagnation. Deathroot is sprouted from a living body without a soul, a body living in death, so to speak. But does that mean that deathroot necessitates a "living" host? That could very well be the case. Whether the identity of the whithered corpse being a relic of Godwyn... this would actually make a lot of sense. Godrick is desperate to live up to his heritage. It's absolutely something he would do, and if it *is* a relic of him, it could explain not just the lack of eyes in the sockets, but also its size difference with the "real deal" as well as why the deathroot we see around Stormveil seems.. white and withered. The corpse is no longer alive. Disconnected from its source, it withered and died, as any bodypart would, undoing the birthing cycle of pestinent flies and cutting off circulation to the thorns spread throughout the castle. I have no real conclusion to it all, I'm just using deductive reasoning here.
I like this one, especially the Rogier connection, but then I would be wondering, if it was cut off and the deathroot withered away, why would Rogier become afflicted?
@@darth0tator, I'm not sure! My guess would be that deathblight requires a living host to truly flourish. Since the supposed relic is only a piece torn off from Gowdyn, it could only sustain the thorns for so long, and much like a dying tree, the first thing to be sacrificed are the "leaves" and "branches." The... limbs and digits, if you will. The corpse itself is still moderately saturated with death: not enough to cause affliction simply by being close to it, but enough to pose considerable risk should you decide to poke around in it. The rest is history. After all, Rogier *is* a living host.
I dig the catch about relics traditionally being preserved body parts. Of course the sacred relic sword and finger slayer blade also seem to be nods in the direction.
One thing I want to point out is that the thorns we see seem to be closest linked to the thorns that block your way in the erd tree, the ones Melina burns down. The capes the Nial and O Neil wear appear to have an wreath of thorns depicted on them. Also, the effigy for summoning allies is an icon of the round table with a crucified guy on top of it. You can tell it's not Marika because the person on it is missing a foot and is wearing the hood that usually has thorns on it. So thorns, the round table and crucifixions are symbols of the golden order. At the very least they are signs of tarnished who are aligned with the golden order.
Finally, many demigods supposedly died on the night of the black knives. So maybe the body at the bottom of Stormveil is just a different demigod who was killed in a similar manner as Godwyn.
Beansnrice321 always coming with the knowledge drops. appreciate you man! I actually had no idea about the capes you mention; I will have to look into that. There was actually a whole section of the video I scrapped about depictions of briars, sin and punishment because it wasn't leading to a coherent narrative...maybe I can revisit that at some point with your thoughts in mind!
@@ZayftheScholar You bet, do it!
Yes, this was my hypothesis as well. Godrick wanted a piece of Godwyn's corpse to graft. I think grafting can also explain the differences we see in the thorns. He probably started by grafting it to nearby trees.
One issue is that we actually have no confirmation that Godwyn was considered part of the golden lineage. But this being by far the best explanation for Stormveil Castle could itself be considered evidence to support that assumption.
Another interesting thing about the castle is that it has two layers of architecture. The original matches Godfrey era keeps like Roundtable Hold while the newer layer is much more ornate and gold instead of stone. This 2nd layer was probably added by Godrick, judging by his sensibilities, and it is also damaged by the mottling and thorns (src: 8:47). So the cancer did occur after he occupied the castle. Some of the non-cancer damage is likely to be from Malenia's siege after Godrick insulted her (src: Kenneth Haight's dialogue).
i feel like this also tracks with the fact that grafting in our current world is something done to plants
Are you serious about Godwyn and the golden lineage? He's literally Godwyn the Golden, the golden lineage is defined as the children of Marika and Godfrey, and obviously Godwyn isn't son of Radagon. He inherits pretty much all of the symbolism of the Golden Lineage. He's the most golden lineage character of the game
@@xaitat I actually agree. I was just pointing out that since we don't have in-game confirmation of that assumption, it's nice to have more supporting evidence.
I always thought it was battle damage but now that you point out the fleshy substance this is quite a disturbing revelation
My first video recorded on PC instead of PS5. Two things I realized: 1. So many more possibilities 2. I need a better computer 😂
Game stuttered and crashed constantly but I hope the pain was worth it!
What do you guys think?
Love it! Looks so crisp.
Hey Zayf, I appreciate the video. Bonus question: What's the music at the end of the video. I know it, but I forgot the source.
@@ScarletEdge Hi ScarletEdge, all the music I choose for my videos is from the website Uppbeat. It's free to use and I'll drop you a referral link in case you wanna check it out: uppbeat.io/?referral=zayf-x8dvc
I will double-check the name of the track at the end 🙂
@@ZayftheScholar Thank you so much.
Nice video!
The fact that it’s lacking the deathroot growths, the hair, the faces and eyes, flies, etc makes me believe the devs went out of their way to establish that, while very similar, something different is happening here.
I’ve been thinking a lot about Godwyn and why this is the appearance he takes. I’m willing to believe there’s something else at play here. We just don’t have the pieces to figure that out yet.
I do like your theory though about how the body got there. Mine was that there is another outer god trying to find a way into the land’s between and spread it’s influence. Seeing as that lower area is used to dump bodies, this outer god found another perfect host to manifest itself in. This outer god would represent stagnation
I've always seen it as a sign that the deathblight is still in an early stage. It seems like all the deathroot we see outside Stormvale is all part of the same giant organism spreading through the ground, with the obvious origin being Godwyn's corpse. Seems like a piece of Godwyn was stolen away and it functioned as a seed to create a second colony of deathroot and a whole second clam-monster. This also says to me that the Godwyn we see isn't his literal body but a new organism growing out of his corpse.
Also I love the theory that there's an outer god using Godwyn's soulless body as an entryway to the Lands Between, it would honestly make a lot of sense. I really wish there was a little more to chew on with the Lichdragon arena since that's our only glimpse into what's going on within Godwyn.
Wouldn't Scarlett rot be something similar to stagnation?
It develops especially into swamps, stagnant water
After all the lake of Rot Is surrounded by 2 rivers which are able to contain It, rivers are flowing water
Why would it be an outer god what
@@Ale-dd3ek I’d liken rot to decay rather than stagnation. Plus with stagnant water being present around TWLID, tibia mariners being, well, mariners and Godwyn growing fins and a fish tail, I’d have to say that death blight is linked to water in _some_ way
I won’t deny that there isn’t any connection with rot and stagnation tho, especially since that’s how Melania beats her rot
Someone claimed the holes came from Radahn’s gravity magic spells when the castle was besieged, with another claiming the castle is rotting due to the curse of Godwyn. It’s noticeable that many of the holes are partially or completely covered in thorny roots, which maybe lends more credence to the rotting theory 🤷♀️
The holes which go through the walls have a corresponding crater on the next wall in- so something smashed through the first wall and took a chunk out the second. Some kind of magical blast/beam and the thorns grew after?
it first i had always assumed the holes were blasted into the castle walls during a siege fight but yeah idd the holes bulge outward and are covered in thorns, if anything it feels like the castle is having an allergic reaction to the corpse deep below.
You don't have to put out theories, the marred shield descriptions confirms what it is, as mentioned in the video
The damage in areas beyond some openings suggest there were impacts. I DO think that's seige damage from when the order was forming.
I just also think godrick bonded godwyns corpse to stormveil as part of his obsession. Godwyn is "healing" the damage to his castle, the holes are filling themselves in. And godrick gets to keep the object of his obsession very close. My pet theory is that godrick wants to use the blighted curse, spread through grafting (old golden order practice iirc.) Irl, grafting a sick branch to a healthy tree propagates the infection. I think godrick intentionally seeded godwyn there, grafted him into his own castle. He can then graft who/whatever else into it all to build his own power out, and maybe in his mind restore godwyn the last way he knows to. Grafting itself doesn't curse you, unless what You've grafted on is cursed. Would godrick commit heresy against the order to maintain his loyalty to godwyn?
@@psychoticbreaks167justletm4 crackpot
my theory on why godwyn seemingly follows godrick to stormveil was always because godrick is his decendant. godrick is a demigod because he is part of the golden lineage, which means he must be related to a child of godfrey and marika, but theres only three characters that fit that, and mohg and morgott both dont really seem like theyd be counted as part of the lineage, especially not mohg. Godwyn even has the god__ name structure that all the members of the godlen lineage have. therefore godricks greatrune was passed down from godwyn so his presence being strong there would make sense.
Mohg and Morgott are absolutely counted, it's essentially the point of all morgott's character
@@xaitat not initially. morgott is king of leyendell now, only after godrick was driven from there. he is only not a legitimate heir that the golden order has no other viable (sane) options besides him. but during the golden age when godwyn would have still lived he would still be in the shunning grounds and certainly wouldnt be seen publicly as a valid heir to leyendell. otherwise, if he always had been in line for the throne, why would there be more god__ named characters like godefroy and godrick?
Hopefully this theory doesn't have too many holes in it... Badum - tiss!
It's a thorny way to please the masses
It's an interesting theory for sure. It makes me wonder though, the corpse growing out of the ground in Stormveil does feature the typical roots of deathroot, in stark comparison to the thorns growing out of the holes within Stormveils Walls, and they aren't found anywhere else in that Form, although the only other place I remember thorns Were the mountaintops of the giants, but I wouldn't be able to make a cohesive corrolation between the two, other than, look there is thorns growing over the corpses of the giants.
I wish I could both like and dislike this comment at the same time
I thought it was from radahn attacking the castle, the tinge in the stone and fauna came from the heat of his meteors, causing the stone to become fertile for hard surface plants like briar
Death blight usually has specifically fly wings for thorns
How the hell does this not have more likes
🙏
I agree! Loved this!
Good links between Godrik's plundering of treasures and the mysterious second face. Also, some of the castle damage even looks like scratches made by the dragon's red lightning, AT the end of the day it's just another annoyingly good detail that the devs never intended to answer and make us write novels about haha!
If I'm being perfectly candid, I think stormveil was designed long before the darkroot depths and the finer details of Godwyns story were ironed out. Ill bet he was originally supposed to be under the castle, but by the time he was moved to Leyndell it would have added a month to alter the castles design.
Obviously we can reconcile this with lore, but the whole place seems like an earlier version of game.
imagine that Godwyn was assassinated in the place where the weird face is under Stormveil, his flesh and blood thrown upon the ground and left behind, while his body was moved to where it is currently, both growing into their current forms.
Ane based on the location, the left-behind blood and flesh sprouted thorns only, as unliving, mineral-like growth, the main body, upon being infused with the erdtree, sprouted deathroot, an attempt at life, thus explaining the flies
The “we “ in his last words have to mean the thing under the castle
It's pretty evident that stormvale was created early in development, so maybe what we're looking at is the first idea of what deathblight would look like. I wish they stuck with this design, I love how the stone seems to turn into flesh. Like maybe there are full-blown creatures out there that were once buildings. But nah, we got flies instead
I used to think both Godwyn bodies were still connected and functioning, but now I think that what we see in Stormveil might be just a husk of Godwyn's former main body. Maybe he started his transformation in the castle and at some point something caused him to move to the Darkroot Depths, which is why the roots seen in Stormveil are at a different development stage than the ones in the depths.
Honsestly, I never did pay too much attention to the holes in the walls. I did always find the thorns kinda weird, but just never really payed them much mind. Honestly this video just showed me how much I sorta just don't pay much attention to really any of fromsofts like visual, map design story telling... Who knows, maybe starting fromsoft games as a hyperactive, dumb kid just conditioned me to focus on enemy ganks and what not too much. I mean I did only find out why the forgotten workshop erks me so like only yesterday. I think thats the name of the other hunters dream you find in bloodborne. Great video too, I really need to pay more attention to my surrounding minus just enemies.
this has been probably the best theory about stormveil that i have come across thus far. i really like how well thought out this video was to the smallest detail. thank you very much for the experience
My favorite theory around all of this is that, in the attempt to rely on such an inmense and mostly unknown power, placing Godwyn's corpse at the roots of the Erdtree caused it to "bug" out and repeatedly try to resucitate him to no avail...that is except for the spread of deathroot all throughout the Lands Between
What a Great video. Thank you so much for making this. I just subscribed.
But there are some things I want to add.
The thing you might notice if you examine carefully is that, one; the "thorns" sprouting from/under deformed Godwyn's clam-like mouth isn't the same thorns you find all over the Stormveil Castle. It actually resembles a tentacle of Octopus or a Squid. The claws coming out from the Sucker makes it seem like thorns.
Interesting thing is, that the other corpse placed at the base of the Erdtree, doesn't have this feature.
Two; the white thorns can be found from Mountaintops of the Giants. Impaling the corpses of fallen, now frozen Giant's corpses. And also Godwyn's corpse under Stormveil Castle has no eyes. The description of Thorn Sorcery (both Briars of Sin and Briars of Punishment Incantation) states;
"An aberrant sorcery discovered by exiled criminals.
Theirs are the sorceries most reviled by the academy.
The guilty, their eyes gouged by thorns, lived in eternal darkness. There, they discovered the blood star."
So the thorns and briars have a theme of punishment towards the guilty in the Lands Between. That's why people crucified near Stormveil have thorns wrapped around their neck. And the Blood Star these Sinners found have some kind of relation to Eyes being gouged out. Just like how Shabriri discovered the Flame of Frenzy.
So I think Godwyn under Stormveil not having eyes has some connection to infectuous thorns.
Also, I think someone said that in the alpha, Banished Knights Armor description said that their armor having Thorn engraving is to keep the "Curse" at bay.
And I think the reason for Godrick not being influenced by the thorn-infection unlike the others is because even though Grace left them(Miyazaki's interviews), due to Destined Death being removed by Queen Marika, all Demigods are immortal.
There is already pre-determined, Destined Death for Godrick. So therefore other forms of death cannot reach him and other Demigods.
I think this holds true for Outer Gods too. Just like Madness can't be inflicted when dealing with Demigods, Blood Star(presumably Outer God) cannot influence Godrick.
But, Scarlet Rot can be inflicted on Demigods unlike any forces of Outer Gods. But Scarlet Rot represents decay. Which is part of cycle of life. And I think the reason is that there already is precedent. Outer God of Rot somehow influenced Malenia since her birth. And during that process the God of Rot may have found a way to influence the Demigods.
But this might just be another stupid theory of mine. In that case, LOL
This is some top quality editing! I noticed a lot of the same things you pointed out especially the thorns. My current impression of the state of Stormveil is actually more mundane. I hope you read through it: We know from the Great Kenneth Haight that Godrick had come into conflict with Radahn, Godrick hiding in the castle from Radahn being specifically mentioned. Radahn likely floated around the castle battering it his various gravity spells. For some reason though, he stops and leaves. Personally, I think the opening cutscene shot of Morgott attacking Radahn took place here and is the reason he stopped. This is where the supposed curse of grafting comes in. Rather than a literal magic curse it is likely that the "curse" term is being used to describe Godrick's obsession with grafting. Because of the obsession with grafting normal castle business cannot be completed. Everyone is either catching people to cut their limbs off or are having their limbs cut off or running defense for the castle.
Sometime after this the battle of Aeonia takes place and Caelid gets nuked. This causes some dragons to flee west. These dragons are brought into conflict with Stormveil castle. Their claws rake the walls and towers while their fire scorches and melts the stone discoloring it. One set of claw marks actually looks big enough to match the Mother of Dragons herself. If that's the case Godrick's forces may have injured her in a way that left her limping back to Dragon Barrow where she would remain, crippled. Thanks to no one trying to fix the holes because they only focus on Grafting (the "Grafting Curse") native thorn vines are growing out of the dirt and up the walls.
Another amazing video, thank you :) So much little detail I've missed and haven't seen much discourse on!
Thank you so much for always being so supportive @flanberry! Good to hear from you
How do you not have at least 50k subs? The quality is amazing!
Too kind man, thanks!
First video of yours I've stumbled onto. I love the presentation and narration. Beautifully put together, I look forward to more.
Aw Genuinely appreciate that wander_boi69, thank you. 🙏
I love this theory. Not only good research and eyes for detail, regarding to the holes in stormveil - but also the best short summary of Godwynns Lore ✨Awesome video
Thanks so much for leaving a nice comment and taking the time to watch Ragel_Rachel! Appreciate you 🙏
Great theory and while watching the video I too came to the same conclusion before you actually mentioning it, that it's not either grafting or something siniter, but both. Would love to hear more!
Thank you for making this. I've been saying since about a month after release: Shabriri is the corpse.
The corpse is Shabriri's original body. Shabriri's eyes were removed and we find them in-game (shabriri grapes.) We find 3. The corpse is missing 3 eyes.
Shabriri is a disembodied soul before he takes over our samurai friend.
The god of death requires a soulless body in order to create an avatar.
Sharbriri was not a demigod. His body would have created a weaker avatar than Godwyn.
Godrick went to Stormveil specifically because it was a site of some ancient power, which he had hoped to harness to reclaim his place in the golden lineage and reclaim his place in Leyndell.
All this comes to the conclusion that Shabriri was the previous avatar of death before Godwyn. An ancient sec worshipped the avatar and interred their dead among it, hence the ancient skeletons in the coffin-like pods nearby. This type of deathroot is different BECAUSE it is a different avatar of the same god. Shabriri is the only other person we know of who's soul left their body (without the body being accounted for like Ranni's.)
In the 2019 trailer of the game there is a scene of Godrick holding a large arm while seemingly kneeling down, I always had a vibe that the arm he was holding was special somehow in that scene. It could have originally been Godwyn's arm but was changed later with development, because Godwyn's corpse has both arms even in its huge distorted model. Or maybe the corpse grew the arm back when it grew to that massive size lol
Beautifully, BEAUTIFULLY edited
In the E3 2019 trailer for Elden Ring before the release I remember there being a severed arm as Godricks other grafted arms come into view. What if that arm belong to Godwyn, when Godrick attempted to graft it, it failed and he disposed of it in the basement.
Alternatively, it succeeded and the curse corrupted Godrick into a more sickly corpse we fight. Which in turn spread in the surrounding areas of the castle
Another great video! Never thought much of the holes beyond thinking it was war or meteorite damage. After you progress enough in the story, the corpse in the Stormveil basement also has the bloodstain of Rogier succumbing to deathblight, but why did it kill him and not us? I feel this ties it more securely to Godwyn, but the question still remains. What is it? Why did Godwyn mutate into this fishy behemoth after death? The hollowness of basement face almost feels like a molting or shedding of a smaller form compared to what Godwyn looks like now. Thanks for picking interesting ER topics!
So here's my theory/rationale of how/why Godwyn and Death are at Stormveil. Malenia is pretty much the living avatar or embodiment of the Rot God. I think Godwyn is of the same variety, rather being thrust into the position by being killed in soul only instead of being born as such. Just as Malenia has her own mind and decision making, I think Godwyn's body is responding to Godric ability to graft as the closest form of returning to life. Being a someone's new arm is much better than being a tree after all
Bro! great observations. I always assumed those holes in the castle were from battle damage, but you changed my mind. Mind blown.
My running theory on why storm veil castle has such a bad infestation of death root is because of all the bodies Godrick has been harvesting. Death root seems to need death it can rise from and the castle is essentially a mass grave at this point.
Also the lowest part of a castle was where they threw all of their waste. It makes sense that Godrick would dump any body parts he doesn't use down there.
Great video really interesting theory! Really well laid out.
My interpretation was that Godwynn was the lord of Stormviel when he died. His corpse started to bloat but he was cut out of it Micolah style and put in the Erdtree. The corpse there is a husk like in the Haligtree
I really liked seeing such a close look at the game like this. I spent almost a year off of any gaming related sites, videos, etc, so I could discover Elden Ring myself. I have written a single document in excess of 250k words…and never did anything with the information at all. Something is definitely going right with the way you did things. Very interesting video, and I imagine you spent ages doing exactly what I did, but then actually did something with it.
Subscribed.
The essence of death is reclaiming all throughout the lands between. Thanks to the night of the black knives.
I don’t know why I never thought about the “relic” the way you did!
Great theory.
(Something from my notes files I made in the first week of release)-
So, here’s my understanding- catacombs are built near the roots of the Great tree, (not to be confused with the Erd Tree, the Great Tree has roots that spread throughout the entirety of the lands between, at least? Not sure though) The roots feed off dead bodies, and thats fine, that’s natural. We see corpses mixed with roots both in the catacombs, and on the surface, especially where we fight the Mariners. All this is fine, it’s natural.
But the there was the night of the black knives, Godwyn was half slain, his soul/consciousness was killed, leaving his physical husk “alive”. This alive demi god corpse was buried at the roots of the Great Tree, as is standard procedure, only this isn’t a standard corpse, it’s a perverse corruption of death, and this corruption is effecting both the tree and the corpse. There is perhaps some mutation of the crucible at play, causing his fish tail, perhaps the material of the large blue sheet thats draped over him, influenced the growth and appearance of this appendage, or maybe it was placed there to spare us from witnessing his giant, mutated fish-tree cock.
Is this the origin of death blight? I’m not sure, maybe so. We can see manifestations of what I’ll call Godwynification in Sunmonwater Village, on the roots found in that area, eye shaped growths on the roots, as well as a similar deformed face on the back of the crabs, these crabs also have Godwyns golden locks growing from them. Lastly there is the almost dead minor Erd Tree directly above his corpse, this tree exhibits no signs of Godwynification, as of yet, but a few golden leaves still remain. Perhaps it’s proximity to the major Erd Tree is offering it some protection, but I can imagine that when the last leaves fall, we will start to see corruption and manifestation of the blight.
Now this leads onto the most intriguing part for me- the “face” under Stormvale. Well, it’s not a face, it’s a whole corpse, with clear arms, arm pits, chest and stomach. There is a trick going on with our facial recognition- the nose is inverted and on the forehead, making it almost impossible not to mistake the correct orientation.
This relic explicitly killed Rogier, it death blighted him, and Rogier eventually succumbed to his affliction. He warns us to stay away, and not to provoke it, lest it attack us. This thing also bleeds and has a squishy, fleshy sound when ran over.
I think there is more to this relic. Could it be the corrupted corpse of another? Could this have been where the ancient Storm King was once buried? And the corruption stemming from Godwyn has also infected this relic? Does this one also have a fish lower half? There are death blight roots growing out of the top of its head, like hair.
A compelling mystery.
just what i needed to start my weekend off right! great work as always mate
P.S. i think the new capabilities of PC footage will really add a lot to your videos! great job with the cinematography
Thanks so much @galaxsija4591! Hope you have a great weekend bro
Damn this channel is underrated as hell! Amazing content, brilliant narration. You'll go places dude!
Thank you Sax! Looking forward to a collab at some point
You got my hopes really high for a mind bending theory about Stormveil being a diseased castle and you did not disappoint. Kudos (:
Phew! I thought your sentence was heading in a different direction there at the beginning haha!
I'm glad you enjoyed it wispfire2545! Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment!
Great video man! Keep up the great work
@kudzukid12 thank you man, I appreciate it!
I was too busy dying in this game and didn't noticed everything! 😅
Though it seems a tad silly, I think Godrick took Godwyn's leg. This would explain why Godwyn's body in the Deeproot Depths has a mermaid-like tail instead of two legs
Wow great quality video. We need more like this. Thanks
Thank you for taking the time to watch and leave a nice comment @user-jy4kb4wu1k!
13:08 ”And one day WE’LL return TOGETHER” godrick and who will return together?? I think Godrick and Godwyn.
I really like this theory! There may be some holes in it as more people dig into it, but its well thought out. Nice job!
First time seeing your content and it’s Fantastic! Very good commentary style and editing, I’m looking forward to your coverage of the DLC’s lore
Oooh! Stormveil! Didn’t expect that! Can’t wait for you to break it down. 🥰
MAAAAAAN! I always thought those holes were siege damage....Wild. It's pretty obvious now when you see where the debris from the holes is laying,
YES! This is it! Finally!
Questions I still have are:
Which part of Godwyn's body did Godrick steal?
Why are the thorns different from deathroot thorns? (oddly enough, when you showed the close-up of the dead firegiant, I noticed that the thorns on its body appear to be the identical kind of thorns that spread around Stormveil)
Why does the Godwyn corpse below Stormveil look the way it does? - and related, what was the progression of its growth from bodypart to the shape it's in now?
Why is the Godwyn corpse located where it is? It appears thrust through a wall. Was it capable of movement at one point, and did it charge through that wall itself? Did it grow through the wall like a plant, displacing the stone with its slow(or rapid?) growth? Did Godrick place it there initially, or did he keep it somewhere else at first, later moving it to where we see it?
Please tell me you have answers to these questions right? I NEED TO KNOW 😭
Rough Hypothesis taking shape:
Godrick kept the relic bodypart somewhere in the castle, hoping to eventually graft it. He experimented with grafting it onto something else first (like the grafting experiments hanging from the ceiling in the hall with the Godfrey painting). That grafting experiment grew into the shape of the Godwyn corpse under Stormveil, except capable of moving around under its own power like a living creature. Let's say that he used a subordinate for the base of the graft, like the Grafted Scions, and that's why the resulting creature was alive. This became a huge disaster. The creature went berserk, and Godrick and his forces had to kill it lest it destroy the entire castle. During that hunt, the creature slammed through the wall where we find it, and died before it could move anywhere else. This event would have led Godrick to conclude that the relic was not something he could graft to himself in order to take on the power and glory that Godwyn had in life, which had been his intention. It must have been a tremendous disappointment and ruined his vision for himself. He was forced to graft other, lesser vestiges of power, none of which really fulfilled his desire of becoming a representation of the best of the golden lineage in their prime - Godwyn and Godfrey. When we find him, he gets his hands on a drake, calling it a true-born heir; how far his expectations have fallen, that he's happy to become like a drake; not even part of the Golden Lineage, but rather the lineage of Placidusax of the age before Godfrey, and not even a true dragon but their lesser descendants. Godrick has changed his criteria for what's worth grafting over and over again in response to disappointments, till he has gone from wanting to graft a piece of Godwyn to wanting to graft a mere drake.
Modified hypothesis focusing on explaining the thorns:
Did Godrick perhaps obtain a be-thorn-ed fire giant corpse from the Mountaintops of the Giants, and use that as the base of the Godwyn graft? Is that why the Godwyn corpse ended up so large, because it started with a giant?
If the giant corpses are carriers of the white thorn curse, the grafted giant-deadGodwyn-creature's corpse could act as a vector for the spread of the white thorns into the stones of the castle.
A question none of these hypotheses answer: Why doesn't the corpse have eyes?
A way we could find evidence to test this hypothesis: Look for signs of destruction that would have been caused by the creature rampaging (not the damage from the thorn-curse), left-behind remnants of the grafting experiment site that led to the creature, potentially a path of destruction between the experiment-site and the current corpse location, signs left behind by battles in which Godrick's forces attempted to kill the creature and eventually did.
Excellent video! I never noticed the holes in stormveil were flesh like, I kinda just assumed it was weathering or punctures from attacks. Since their appears to be more slash-like gashes on the entrance after morgott's fight.
Also really hoping for some Godwyn in the dlc especially with the hints of Miquella's eclipse that supposedly can "Grant life to the soulless bones" and their comrade that "remains soulless" . Reminds more of the reference to Laurence's skull but hopefully not a reskin fight lol
100% Agreed and fantastic Snorunt avatar!
Thank you!! ❤
I think your on to something, some descriptions ( can’t remember what from ) that I think could build into your idea is that the dragons have been theorized to evolve into the birds, as seen with the dragons with bird feathers. Maybe related to the storm hawks then, from there we have the description of the dragons being the rock that shields there king. Maybe there flesh is part of the castle that is now rotting with the curse under the castle. My theory is that the so called great tree ( before the erd tree we see ) was created when some dragon god was killed and that is the corps under the castle ( not Godwin, hence the lack of death root ? And the sacred relic being sacred before the night of black knifes ? ) ( we know that for some reason gods don’t want to die on the ground due to the lore connected to the walking mausoleums, perhaps because they from such a tree ? ) this could explains how the age of the erd tree started when Godfrey defeated the storm hawks ( dragons ) and why early erd tree is so related to dragons ( draconic erd tree sentinels the aspects of the crucible (perhaps even the omen thorns ?)
I’m on my 6th play-through and I’ve always seen the holes in storm veil but just the other day I took a good look at them from the starting point of the game and thought to myself what the actual hell are those things lol solid video I look forward to more from you man
Great video. Brought up a lot of really good points. Makes me want to go back through Stormveil.
You should! The DLC is coming soon so it's a great time to pick it back up 🙂
@@ZayftheScholar I already have it pre-ordered and I have a completely new playthrough going ready for the DLC.
@@seanoconnor5473 right on! I'm hyped!
@@ZayftheScholar same here. 6/21 can’t come soon enough. Keep putting out great content!
@@seanoconnor5473 appreciate you! 🙏
In descriptions of the night of the black knives, it is implied that Godwyn was not the only victim. The killing of his soul through carving the half hallowbrand directly corrupted the Golden Order, as death in the traditional sense is forbidden, and those that die must be recycled through the Erdtree. The resulting corpse is capable of spreading that corruption, creating those who live in death. My theory is that his corrupting power is directly linked to his power as a demigod.
The corpse under the castle is missing distinct features of the prince of death, so maybe it is a different person. I like the theory that Godrick stole a relic of Godwyn, but I don’t like that the roots have different morphology and that there are no flies or signs of death blight.
The holes in the castle are clearly a mark of corruption and decay, though it is unusual as we do not see this same kind of decay in places close to the true corpse, at least that I have seen.
That being said, Rogier becomes deathblighted by touching it, so it is probably an allusion to events to come later in the game. From a gameplay perspective, Stormveil may have been too early to introduce an instant death mechanic.
I mean there's literally a piece of Godwyn's face down there?
I think this story highlights that the environment does matter, which is something easily applicable to growing plants too...
In one case, Godwyn is buried under the Erdtree. The powerful tree's magic resurrects him as an undead being, causing the surrounding area to become infected and dangerous. The once-sacred ground is now a hub of corruption, spawning perilous life forms.
In the other case, Godwyn is buried beneath the castle. Here, his presence causes the castle's walls to rot and decay. The structure weakens, spreading malign energy that endangers the inhabitants and threatens the castle's stability.
Maybe it was some form of clever foreshadowing from the devs, like first they gave us a taste of what the corruption is THEN they show us that things can go even worse
I've heard people say that the reason there's no actual Deathroot in Stormveil is because Stormveil was created and modeled before the actual design for deathroot was decided upon and they simply didn't want to redesign everything, which is extremely likely.
However, what still makes me skeptical that we're supposed to just accept that the thorns in Stormveil are Deathroot is that there is literally no trace or hints of Deathroot **anywhere** in Stormveil. It would have been trivially easy for them to just add some models of the final version of Deathroot that we find elsewhere in the game (such as in Summonwater village which is very close by and encountered by many players before exploring Stormveil) around Stormveil or underneath where Godwyn's not-corpse is, but they didn't. We don't even see any undead, just a death sorcery, the pustule, and a bloodstain of Rogier being killed by deathblight.
This would mean that they expected players to not care or ignore the discrepancies between Stormveil's Deathroot and the Deathroot in the rest of the game (including Limgrave) BUT they thought including both of those designs in Stormveil itself would somehow be going too far and break the player's immersion? It just doesn't make any sense.
The idea that we're not meant to "know" Godwyn is connected to deathroot by the time we get to Stormveil and see the big face because Fromsoft wanted it to be a big secret later on is also complete nonsense, because the Prince of Death's Pustule (which you find *on* Godwyn's corpse) just straight-up tells us that it's Godwyn, and it's trivially easy to infer that the "relic of the night of black knives" underneath Stormveil that Rogier is talking about is obviously related to Godwyn.
So yeah, I definitely think there's more going on with Stormveil than "it's just Deathroot". I believe Fromsoft would have done even just slightly more to smooth over the discrepancy if it was.
What if??
Just hear me out.
What if Marika had a child with someone other than Godfrey, with their first two children being deformed Omens, what if she felt Godfrey was the problem why her children were being cursed, what if she got with a being who is from the seas who may have fish like qualities??
Then when she had Godwyn, the baby came out looking normal yet had the blood of the fish like being in him too.
What if the being under the Castle is actually Godwyn’s father??
The mysterious Umibozu creature that was in the game’s code but not put in the final product??
Zullie the Witch talks about it, in a past video.
It was supposed to be a giant humanoid creature in the seas.
Considering that there are other soulless demigods (kept inside the wandering mausoleums); it's also possible that the other giant face thing could be a different, nameless, soulless demigod. And that's just what happens with their bodies one their souls are removed.
You are such a talented video maker ! Keep it going!!
Thank you kindly @D1sappo1ntmentPanda!
So I don't know how often this is talked about, but this all may be taken from nature. When you graft trees into each other you are likely to get what is called a rootstock, which grows thorns (how you can identify it). The rootstock needs to be well managed and often cut off early if you want to have any good fruit otherwise it will take over the tree until it's a tasteless abomination instead of what you grafted it to produce. In fact, it can suffocate the tree completely until it's nothing but rootstock. Part of the other reason I believe this is the case is the golden scions are also a part of tree grafting since they are named after branches that could grow on rootstock, and if done right, produce its own fruit.
Basically, it's a castle of mismanaged affairs. Godrick is trying to capitalize on the suffocation of his castle and ignore the, ahem, root problem.
This also goes with the root beast mentioned earlier since it is "root"stock that is the source of suffocation. It makes sense it if personafied in a twisting wild natural beast that crushes you in a tiny space, as if trying to suffocate you as well as the castle.
On a different topic, the concept continues to follow outside of stormveil. In honest, from that aspect, a lot of "root" troubles come from things I deal in my garden. You typically find death root in water in game, for instance, flooding with mariners, and I don't think that's a coincidence since root rot is the number one plant killer. Much like Godwyn's state, it's a slow half death where the plant is fighting to live but even if you get to it you may not get to it in time and it just rots itself out from over watering or being in a pot that's too big for it so the soil never dries. If you leave it there, the remains of the plant stays there, a blackened version of when it was fully alive.
I'm gonna stop before I get to potting, jar people, and jar burials weeeee.
But yes. Point being, it shocks me how few videos look at the gardening aspect to trees to use as a lens for lore. Miyazaki did his research, not just in ancient cultures and religions, but in nature itself as well.
Tldr: IRL tree grafting explains a lot of things in Elden Ring, and so does gardening in general
Adding note that I am an indoor herb gardener primarily and live in a desert so I don't graft trees personally, so my description may not be put in the most accurate wording. However, more grafting info is only a Google away and that includes various other grafting failures like bacterial cankers and other tree related diseases that appear in the game (like mushroom men in caves being related to Honey Fungus for example).
I actually got chills at the end. Great theory!
If you look closely the thorny branches in the walls look exactly like the thorns on the doors into the Erdtree.
Again, amazing theory. I was also wondering how the long distance between the deep roots and Stromveil connects Godwin and your theory just makes sense…
I've been thinking about the things brought up in this video a lot for the past few days, and its led me to conclude that I don't believe the corpse under Stormveil is Godwyn at all; in fact, I think it *predates* Godwyn and possibly even the Erdtree itself. One of the biggest reasons for this is that the entire area underneath Stormveil seems to be a burial site littered with artifacts and practices that heavily imply it was used as such before the time of Marika and the Erdtree, centered and built around this corpse.
The broken statues in the procession leading to the Ulcerated Tree Spirit arena are all associated with other pre-Marika locations, the arena itself is very obviously a burial ground with broken vaulted ceilings and some kind of ceremonial veil hanging over the passage to the corpse, and the arena is lined with ghostflame torches like the kind we see all throughout the catacombs, associated with the ancient pre-Erdtree religion of the Deathrite Birds (this connection is furthered by the rancorcall spell which can be found nearby). But most of all, the method of burial is especially notable. There is no sign of Erdtree burial like the kinds we find in the catacombs, nor of the older practice of cremation which we also find in the catacombs which seems to have preceded Erdtree burial. Instead, we find boat grave burials: skeletons laid out in small boats, a method of burial historically attested among seafaring peoples like the vikings.
Given how ancient it seems, and how much more degraded and in disrepair it is than Stormveil Castle above, it seems likely that Stormveil was built around and on top of this burial site rather than it being some later addition. It also seems to be designed specifically to frame the giant corpse as some kind of centerpiece, the end of this procession starting from the statue room and separated from the burial site by that big veil hanging over the passageway. All of these things seem to be ancient and not new additions, making it extremely odd that they would be centered around the corpse of Godwyn - something which could only have appeared there long after the Erdtree religion had been established and these ancient rites would have been wiped out by the Golden Order.
As you stated in the video, the corpse itself seems oddly distinct from Godwyn's actual corpse in a number of ways, namely the lack of hair and eyes and the presence of much more squid-like tentacles. The entire area is also completely devoid of Deathroot corruption, and if you look carefully it doesn't even appear that the corpse itself is touching any of the roots that are nearby. It's literally just a giant corpse, buried under Stormveil, with seemingly no visual evidence of it spreading or growing. However, I don't think it's a piece of Godwyn that Godrick stole and just discarded down below Stormveil.
I mentioned how this ancient burial site seems designed around the corpse rather than it just being there by random chance, and it doesn't look like it was placed there and then it grew to a larger size either - it's literally emerging from the rock with visible pieces of debris. Either it grew *out* of the rock, or it was simply buried there and excavated out by whoever built the original structure around it. If it did grow out of the rock by itself, I still don't think it's deathroot. It shares no visual similarities to deathroot, (it doesn't even look like a root at all), bleeds like a corpse, and really just in all respects seems like an actual corpse that is buried there rather than some kind of deathroot manifestation of Godwyn.
Returning to Godwyn, notice the differences between Godwyn's actual corpse and this corpse under Stormveil: it has no eyes and no hair, and has much more natural, aquatic-looking tentacles (It actually even has a shark-like mouth with teeth modeled beneath the level geometry, but since that's not accessible in game it may not be relevant). What do we always see in manifestations of Godwyn's influence through the deathroot? His eyes and tufts of hair. You can see it on anything related to Deathroot, there's always one or both of those things. The two things that this corpse *doesn't* have. What this tells me is that whatever this thing is, it's not Deathroot - in fact, it's not descended or influenced by Godwyn at all. Instead, my theory is that because Godwyn was cursed by the rune of death, it caused him to start turning into something like the corpse under Stormveil - not the other way around.
I believe that this thing was a previous prince or god of death before the Erdtree either associated with or originating from the ocean due to its aquatic features (even more aquatic than Godwyn's corpse), associated with the deathrite birds and worshiped by a seafaring culture who practiced ship burials. This could also provide another connection to the Tibia Mariners, and explain why death is associated with water and the sea so much in Elden Ring - the first/previous incarnation of it was literally a giant sea monster. One issue with this is that Rogier calls the corpse a "relic of the night of black knives" - however, if this thing was also half-killed by the rune of death in the same way Godwyn was only long before the Erdtree (it may have even created it for all we know) then I think it could still make sense for him to refer to it as such. As for the Prince of Death's Pustule, I think it is likely that Godrick stole it from Leyendell as you said and tried to use it for grafting, causing the corruption we see in Stormveil Castle above (Note that the "tainted winds" eating away at the castle also come from the sea, further adding to some kind of oceanic connection), and perhaps once he was done with it the pustule was brought down into the burial site perhaps either by people like Rogier investigating those who live in death or maybe even a descendant of the peoples who practiced the boat burials.
Lastly, and this is probably the most tenuous connection, I think it is worthwhile to look at George R.R. Martin's work for some potential parallels within the backstory and ancient history of Stormveil. In A Song of Ice and Fire, the Ironborn are a race of seafaring raiders inspired by vikings (who practiced boat grave burials in real life), heavily associated with squids, who worship a deity called the Drowned God - a god partially inspired by Cthulhu, who is even worshiped with the phrase "What is dead may never die" by his priests in the books. Starting to sound similar to something in Elden Ring? Oh, and do you want to know who the dreaded, eternal enemy of the Drowned God is in Ironborn mythology?
The *STORM GOD*.
😲My Literal Face as I FINALLY noticed the head was UPSIDE DOWN, then you showed the attached body and everything just made so much sense. Then the added detail of the crabs above Godwyn and the crabs above the face. IT WAS GODRICK THE WHOLE TIME!
Brother this went hard
@rxcklessdolphin Thank you so much man!
This theory just nails it. Actually I've never even seen the body part in the Stormveil Depths. Learning something new every day.
Day 1 of the release I've wondered about it but quickly forgot, I'm glad to finally see someone talk about it
I've heard of plot holes BUT THIS IS RIDICULOUS!
This version of Deathroot seems more like a fungus rather than a tree's root system. That would also explain why this Deathroot seems to completely replace its host's insides, slowly letting it decompose. Fungus is also somewhat flesh-like, being much softer and sometimes spongy.
At first I thought the holes looked like old melted damage, like from big lasers or something. But the pustules and rot makes more sense. Actually, some of the holes look a lot like fingerprints, don't they? The 'rot' on the stones looks like moss and algae to me. The head in the pit juts from the bedrock from the north-west ocean, and happens to look very much like a medieval drawing of a sea monster
The two elements that make it impossible for the curse being cause by a battle or attack are: they also appear on the inside of some towers with no direct path to an entrance or hole, and they also rip open the floor in some places on the outer wall. Kosmos made a very good video on that.
I've met the channel today. And i'm already a big fan. Congratulations and, nice video!
Thanks @alen_dm5896! Means a lot to me
Great video, I began a new playthrough after a long break and was wondering about this while going through Stormveil. I somehow completely forgot about the corpse in the basement....
Rancorcall is a sign of deathblight, as is Rogier's affliction from messing with the Stormveil Relic. So I figured it was one of two things that explain the differences between the Relic and Godwyn:
- It is an early form of deathblight, that it grows first to look more natural and living and then rots slowly into the form of Godwyn's blackened fly wing-thorns.
- Or I agree with you where it's difference is caused by grafting and deathblight intermingling, as grafting is a method to revive a dying tree as well as to combine two of them. So I wouldn't be surprised if the Relic is the source of Grafting for the Golden Line. It seemed strange to me that Godwyn's line is the only one that can do it but Godwyn himself was never said to do it (not even a less horrific version of it). So what if his dead, chimeric form is the source of this forbidden ritual of grafting?
Just my thoughts, but it was a very good spot by you about the use of the term Relic and its relationship with saints.
in medicine, cancer can sometimes present with distant metastasis... spreading to a distant part of the body, instead of to any and all adjacent organs...
maybe we can think of godwyn's presence in stormveil castle this way...
I wonder if Godrick took it a step further and tried too graft said Relic onto the castle itself too create a more powerful defence as too not be defeated again. As he seems too live in peace with what has become of his home, along with his soldiers. Also pre Tree Spirit boss fight destruction the boss arena looks to be a church or at least some architectural place of worship judging from the columns and arches.
Solid theory. Loved it. Thanks for sharing
Thank you for taking the time to watch and leave a kind comment @christracy2342!
When I went to Iceland the guide took us to this church on a cliff in the middle of nowhere where he was almost killed by a huge crow as a kid and was heavily traumatized. It was them that I suddenly understood the vibe ER was aiming for