Garage Door Failure! Not Sure HOW WE WILL FIX THIS!? Not Even Sure What is WRONG!
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- Опубликовано: 14 мар 2023
- How can we get this down? What is the PROBLEM? Spring Hanging OUTSIDE instead of INSIDE!
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Wow, I've dealt with some epic garage door fails over the years, but never run into this level of self-destruction! I thought for sure that a "garage door failure" video from a tractor guy would involve running into the door with ROPS, but this was even more entertaining.
I appreciate that you took full responsibility for the broken pipe. You could have easily left that part out. You are truly a good and fair man.
Lol! Paused at 2:35. Glad to know you can squat 500 pounds Tim. Those cheeseburgers 🍔 are working!
Edit-Story of my life working on something that wasn't planned.
I enjoyed another of you your dad’s profound observations. Short, accurate, and packed with wisdom. They are especially timely for my short attention span😉 Reminds me of my dad as well, and thanks for sharing them. Blessings.
That was still a "real project". That's life and it happens to all of us. That's why I enjoy watching your channel. Very lucky it didn't damage the door. I have the same type project coming up... insulatiing my doors and replacing one spring to handle the extra weight. Waiting for warmer weather.
Nice to have help for the problem. Garage springs are not fun to work on. Great Job in saving the garage door.
Good job on the garage door Tim....When you can finally find and buy the center hanger bracket, I might suggest you get 2 additional brackets. Install them on either end of the pipe just short of the end of the springs. This will help carry the load of those heavy springs on the thin wall pipe.
Live and learn! Awesome job!
You know any demonstration is better than no demonstration thanks for that Tim👍
Great video as always!! Don't give up on the opener. It may be damage, but it may also may just need re-clocked. I have 2 openers identical to yours on my building that also contains my "Green" equipment, however, my doors are much narrower than yours.
Thanks for sharing. Don't like working on overhead doors but do them anyway. Check the parts list and instructions next time! Looking forward to some spring time tractor projects.
I always have a certified garage door company fix our garage doors. That spring is no joke.
It's amazing how heavy the door is without the spring to help open and close the door. Did this on roll up doors on semi trailers and you can't not open the door without help from a forklift. Good job fixing the spring. Stay safe!!!
Wow, I'm impressed. Those garage door springs always make me skittish! Well done.
Tubing is better than solid rod because it allows some torsional movement. It also allows some indentation when you clamp the jack screws down, which keeps the cable sheaves from slipping. Having the two 18 inch rods to adjust tension, as you did, is all you need. Always adjust the cables first to remove slack and then clamp vise grips on each end of the tube. The vise grips should press against the wall to hold equal tension on the cables. Once this is done you can wind up the springs. Make sure to count the amount of turns so that it is the same for both springs.
I just bought a 14x12 door and specified a solid rod. It has a keyway the whole length and a very handy coupler in the middle for adjusting cable tension. I'm going to put on a shaft mount opener but won't open door all the way.
The pipe is more than sufficient. The plastic bushing is needed in the middle to center the shaft. When you wind the springs. Draw a straight line on the spring and as you turn the spring the line will twist line. Then each little line is a full turn. It looks like you will need one full turn for each foot of door height plus about 3/4 of a turn. (8’high door 8-3/4 turns on the spring. )I installed garaged doors for over 5 years. Any questions feel free to message me.
I have had and still have several garage doors & my favorite is old fashioned manual chain roll up. I have what you have and the Genie cork screw.
Garage doors and HVAC systems have one thing in common. Nearly all failures can be traced to improper installations. Love your Dad's saying 😎
I put these door springs on enclosed ramp door trailers. Them springs can kill you when winding. They are nothing to mess with if not knowing what your doing. I don't even mess with my own I call the door guy.
Same here. Door serviceman is equipped and trained. At NO TIME should you be in front of the lever rod/bar you're using to adjust tension; keep to the side of the lever just in case it slips and releases the spring and hurls that lever rod/bar..it's a widow-maker for sure.
EXACTLY
Lots of stored potential energy . Only a professional should work on them
I just had my door springs replaced a couple of weeks ago. Took the professional about 45 minutes to do them both.
Fixing things that break are part of life I enjoy your videos
Your pipe is called a torsion tube, and is used on most residential and light commercial applications, solid keyed shafts are usually on larger or high use doors like at fire departments. Solid keyed also uses a flanged coupler for cable / door leveling. I'm not a big fan of shaft driven operators, if a cable comes off of the drum or door on one side while operating or if a cable breaks it can cause a lot of trouble. Also as a safety note, spring winding bars that are tapered on the ends can be very dangerous and I would recommend using different and proper bars.
The "pipe" I usually install a solid round bar or a black or galvanized water pipe. What comes with garage kits usually fail over time. Also some installations I've seen over the years use to small of lag bolts to anchor everything. To short and to thin. Some sheds have opposing springs some setups have two shafts (pipes) and both springs are in same direction. Keep the tension the same for both springs otherwise door will raise and lower croaked.
Good job repairing the garage door, hopefully the opener isn't damaged and the travel limits can be readjusted.
I feel for you Tim. I’m waiting on a part to fix a brand new opener myself. 7-10 days to get it. Probably would’ve been quicker to have taken the motor housing back to Menards and have swapped it out with a new one. What I had hoped was swapping out the motor ended up being tearing the old track down and replacing all new as pieces were not compatible.
Tim; I ha the same setup. called the installer back with problems. Called another co. and first thing he said was the angle or curve near the ceiling was wrong for that style lift (lift master)? He installed a standard opener and no more problems. Good luck in future.
Disconnect the opener from the door, run it through a few cycles to see if it is working correctly. If it is working good reinstall it when the opener is in the down position same as the door, and make sure it is level with the rod/spring assembly.
The tube/rod was cut like you said due to the plastic bushing missing, when it finally broke all the way the spring tension on that side pulled it into the other side of the tube.
Hey Tim, I'm kinda like you , I know where everything is, in the pile on my work bench.. I had to laugh out load when Christy said its lucky she didn't "organize'" it somewhere. The very words my wife uses when discussing my workshop
Thankfully, Christy really DOES organize my shop. Only the ‘miscellaneous’ stuff which she can’t categorize stays on the workbench.
I’m shocked this bushing stayed there for 3 years! The cats are always knocking stuff off.
I accidently left the plastic bushing out of my small door. I replaced it a couple years later when I installed my shaft mount opener. I just bought another door from Menards and specified a solid shaft.
Hi Tim,
Fun Fact: The white line on the springs indicate how many turns you made on the springs. I think 7 1/2 turns are a good place to start.
Fun fact. The white line on the springs was when I hit it with the paint roller while painting the wall behind it.
I have seen small lines on springs before. I think it was red though.
@Jeffrey Currie YES, the color represents what size door it is rated for. As you twist the springs, it looks like a candy cane. Count the twist to visually see if each spring has the same amount of tension.
I really like my Chamberlin door opener that works like that. The MyQ system is great also. I enjoy having the option to use the App on my phone to operate the door.
Don't worry Tim, literally everything I've touched the past couple of weeks has either malfunctioned or busted! I've ordered more replacement parts than I care too! Must be in the air!
Tim, I have a 10ft H x 14 ft W which I installed myself. When I ordered, the dealer strongly suggested a solid rod, especially when planning to put an electric opener since he felt that there is too much twist (torque) on hollow pipes longer than 8 ft. Glad you were able to do it safely.
That's why prop shafts on cars and trucks are made from tubing.
we had a similar deal where I work the tension spring broke on the door at the loading dock we had unloaded a truck and hit the button to let the door down and the door came crashing down luckily no one was under it we didn't have the tool to adjust the spring so i went to the local welding shop and bought two 7/16 rods and had to of course buy a new spring
Tim, it's all about quantity not quality any more. Good job y'all, from gary
Yeah, those springs are very dangerous! Never a good time when they break!
There should always have a center bearing. I see you got a replacement which is good should have no more problems. Make sure there are no kinks in your cables and you should be fine. I noticed your springs are looking dry. Once they dry out they will bind up. Use some leftover engine oil. pour some on the spring but have a wiping rag handy to wipe up the excess so it does not drip. Oil the springs as they dry out and they should last a long time. As for your operator it could be the limit switches are out of adjustment. Sorry to see you had problems.
Oh the garage door woh's.
Had a number of problems with the 2 I have. Went to an older fellows to buy some hydraulic parts ect he had.
He was a retired aircraft mechanic, and some of the gadgets he had made fascinated me.
He had a larger garage door that he opened with a 2 way electrical switch.
Intrigued me to the point I asked about it.
It was an old gas garden tiller gear box, with sprockets and chains welded, with a simple little electric motor with a 2 way switch forward/reverse. No springs to fool with, the gearbox could handle the weight, with no trouble.
You did have to stand there and hold switch and shut to off when it went up, and again in reverse to lower it.
But worked flawlessly for 25 years he had told me.
Of course after that I was on the look out for an old tiller. LOL, Have not found one yet that I could use, they are either real garbage or they want the price of a new tiller for them.
Now I could go on about the bucket truck he built to trim his trees, but that is another story. If you could think of something that you needed he would come up with a plan.
We use to oil the springs once a year on the 14x14 doors…put oil on a rag and wipe it on the spring…helps with coil bind and noise
I’ve watched much bigger doors than this go in. It’s amazing how many times they crank the shaft/spring. They spray the spring too. Silicone I think.
Hallelujah, a guy who will actually work on his own garage door! Good work! To the naysayers treat the springs with respect, not fear!
Exactly. I get quite tired of the “we are too dumb to do stuff ourselves” crowd.
💥 I had to fix a broken spring a couple years ago. Kinda scary messing with all that tension. Perfect verse at the end! 👍
*Keep on tractoring!*
Tube is correct for that application. Even though the wall appears thin it is very strong. You can apply more torque to tube than solid bar stock. It's like standing on a pop can and it holds your weight until you dent it. If that tube failed something was out of line.
I just replaced a similar spring last weekend. Most manufacturers supply a "safety strap" which holds the shaft into the bearing so it cannot "pop out." One potential cause is too little tension on the spring so that when the door is opened "all the way or just a little more--horizontal movement at of the last roller at the top of the track" there is slack in the lifting cables. This allows the cables to "unwind" just a little bit, then jam as the door is lowered. Next happening is cable failure or release, spring tension release (injury possible if you are in the wrong place), shaft/pipe can pop out like yours did.
yes when the tubeshaft broke, the door opener internals came apart out of alignment if not out right broke the motor shaft, the motor mount, the screw gear, and the roller gear, the travel sensor pcb mount probably broke as well, the travel pcb definitely came out of it's mount and might have broke in half or the travel sensor tabs broke/bent either on the limiter bars or the pcb solder joint. the travel set screws probably fell out of their snap in mounts.
Good Lord, it's good to have good neighbors!
Apparently it takes more than two guys to do it correctly :)
We've all done that. Got something together and found a part just sitting there.
9:00 in. All good since the kitty is there to supervise lol.
Glad nobody got hurt, Tension is dangerous.
I have 2 roll up doors on my shop, one works very good but the other one has a few problems. For one thing someone hit the bottom panel so the rubber on the bottom doesn't seal well. Sometimes it will go up and other times i have to really try to raise it. Of course the one with the trouble is the one I use all the time.
Good labor isn't cheap, and cheap labor isn't good!😂
I have the long springs on my garage doors. I have had several break. Sounded like someone hit the house. It’s an easy replacement, but after the first break, I added safety cables. And they work. I would not even touch the overhead springs. Guess I just need some experience adjusting them. We are always working on something around the house.
There should be a center bearing that slides in the middle that you have to slide the rod thru. I believe you would slide it from the left hand slide your springs together and bolt them in the middle
25 years ago I was closing my garage door and I thought someone had shot a shotgun at me. A loud BLAM! and one of the windows shattered and the wood frame splintered. I dove to the ground. (By coincidence a car was passing by on the road behind me). But it turned out one of the (old style) long stretch springs(rather than torsion) with wire cable and pulleys had snapped and smashed the window from inside. No safety cable inside the spring (as any sensible installer would have used). Glad I was closing it from the outside.
The 24’x30’ garage door fell off the ceiling at the shop I used to work at. That was a fun day.
Tim be careful using those prybars for winding the spring. Menards has an actual winding bar for that. It fits perfect into the spring without a taper on it. Glad it went well for you. Also check your manual for the opener. I believe it has a maximum size of 180 square feet.
Mine is 16x10.
If that is a liftmaster 8500 jackshaft opener, I think it has a 650 lb. lift limit and like you said the max sq ft of door is 180 sq ft. It is also limited to 14' tall doors. I really like the jackshaft openers over the standard belt or chain driven openers.
If I still lived in Indiana, I would've been over in a heartbeat to help
I'd pay a pro to do this work, My dad told me of a time he was putting up tile in a house & a pro garage door installer (with 20+ years of doing it) ended up in the hospital. My dad heard a loud bang and when he went into the garage he saw the poor guy on the ground. The spring broke as he was tightening it and threw him off the ladder. He always told me never to mess with that type of spring, they are VERY dangerous. I watched (from 20' away!) when my 2 doors were installed (18'x8' & 12'x8') and the tool he used was NOT a tapered end, I think that's the wrong tool for the job & might slip out by accident. I also remember him counting out loud the rotation & both sides were the same count.
A similar situation happened to me and of course I had to replace the whole garage door because of the damage done
The rods used to put tension on the springs should be flat on the ends, not tapered like the ones you were using, they can slip out!
I’ve had this happen a couple times those springs can kill you when they come apart be careful trying to tighten the tension
Wow... it seems like you just moved to this property but you've been there for years! 😉
Yep. Long time now.
You can take the door panels off. If you're taking the spring loose, use a bar in the end of it (there is a hole next to the nut) and slowly unwind the spring while loosening and tightening the nut. You can also use 2 rods once the nut is loose to alternate unwinding the spring.
if you're unlucky, it can be a big blow with resulting injuries. tried to find a video I saw a month ago about a guy rebuilding his u-hauler. and he wanted to remove the door. he was very lucky that he was not injured. but probably a pain in the hand and that he probably had to change his underpants. think he used a hammer drill to loosen the spring.
Tim if you ever have this happen again just cut the cables remove the opener and remove the spring loaded pipe and hold the door like you have it now
Yes its nice to have a opener on my tractor, but again its really not a big deal to get off and pull the chain.
Yet another use for compact tractors
Tim what kind of key do you need I have some for Chevy Ford Honda I can find you an Oliver key haha
Before you start tightening the springs that white spray paint and paint a line on the spring so when you tighten the springs it makes then you can count the turns you make on the springs.
I been installing garage doors for thirty years I have many customers that have gotten seriously injured by doing it wrong you where lucky not to hurt yourself or damaging the door. That size shaft is on millions of doors the size. Did you check the wires and the safety sensors and you are supposed to reset the up and down travel after you reset the springs that will reset the up and down forces
My only guess is that the opener is using the spring and cables to open the door. It may have stressed the cables too much. Another possible issue is that the spring may not have been installed/bolted down effectively.
The upper and lower limits probably need reset on the opener to get it to work.
You know we all make mistakes. You kinda remember that hay i dont remember x step. Well my mistake was apparently with my 48 JD B i bought when 13. I tore the engine apart to get it running and had it running and when put away and got back out the following spring it was siezed up. I dont have the time and guessing i done something wrong a friend is working on it and it has cost me $3300 but she runs again with 90 over aluminum pistons and a valve job plus the tires were alway shot so another $2000 was spent on all new rubber. Now i could use a better paint job rather than my 15 y.o. self rattle can job then im planning on building my own 3" straight pipe stack cause i dont like chrome. It will be more of a show tractor than the 520 but i want a bigger trk so i can haul both together if they fit on my trl together. Will be real tight. Glad was easily fixed. Important thing is you learn from it. Im an otr trk driver so my time is very limited otherwise ive been wanting to fix my mistake myself
when u replace the rod after install drill a hole and put a cotter pin in it so it cannot pull through the bearning - bushing god bless
these springs are no joke for sure
My door is 10x18 and my opener looks identical. I let my builder know I wanted the HD hardware package and HD springs. I had read the installation manual before the building crew put the door up. The builder realized his crew was not comfortable installing the door from items I pointed out. He hired a local garage door expert who came out and made things right. I have installed 7x8 and 7x16 but I was not tackling the bigger door.
Sold the harrow yet?
No.
Fyi,when tensioning the springs. Your door will come to your knees without lifting by hand
My recently late grandfather used to work on doors like these, this door was the smallest he worked on. Them things could kill you they ain’t nothin to mess with… was the door damaged?
Hi Tim, I think that your Door opener doesn't work because it try To close the Door, but the door is already down. You gone have to readjust low and high limits. To test you Door opener, unlock the mecanism and raise your door half way and try again.
bearing plates are 2 high for 15" radius track. missing bearings will cut tube. solid shaft not nessary. the opener is not level
It’s funny that the ad before your video was a garage door company.
Painful very painful, I used a pice of rigged conduit on my snowmobile trailer door.
My door doesn't have pipe on the spring assembly. It has a solid steel bar. This setup was designed to fail!
I have learned thru the years first read all the instructions and the owners manual and not once but at least twice and sometimes thrice.
A local paint store has a interesting sign over the check out area and it makes a great statement!!!
"ONLY THE RICH CAN AFFORD CHEAP"
🇨🇦
Buy a piece of solid steel rod and slide it inside the pipe and that I'll make it stronger.
First time I saw the trike???
The pipe size is fine,; the problem is length and proper support.
For a 16 foot door, you should have 4 bearings; two ends and two auxiliary bearings between the spools and the springs.
That way, sag is controlled.
When tensioning the springs, with no load on them, paint a stripe along the length to allow you to count wraps; same number of wraps on each side.
Failures of this counterbalance system is usually a broken spring; I've replaced three in 20 years.
Warren may be on to the fix for better adjustment and long term prevention of a repeat down the road. My overhead door is the same width, albeit not as tall, and the leverage multiplier that the far spring exerts on the opener of this style is rather high. Over time, it can wear the input bearing (or on some models a bushing) in the opener itself, causing shear play of the tubing. Since the center support sounds like it wore a bit from your description, and then the far end jumped the mount, it's worth a check.
Hopefully I'm over thinking it, and it was just a freak combination of events (known to happen), but if your door is still racking when the opener tries to engage like it shows before you made the jump cut to try the off screen adjustments , I'd be suspicious...
Great job thinking through a stressful occurrence. I would have likely spent a day starring at those springs and getting lost in web research before attempting a fix; you got right to it with a camera rolling! 😀
There should be a cotter pin on the end of the cross pipe to keep the pipe from pulling out of bearings.
After this I would only want a center mounted opener.
Is it possible the damage was caused by the side opener twisting the pipe to open the door instead of a regular opener that lifts the door itself?
No, I left out the bushing.
I'm fighting with my garage door at the moment. I'm about to completely tear it down and reinstall it. The original owners took a lot of shortcuts when they installed it.
there are professional garage door specialists who could advise you with the proper sizing of springs and hardware all you need to do is give them the dimensions and height they will do the rest
Thanks for sharing "your live" with all those in the world (which actually means me ... 😀), I really love your videos.
Having a quite similar type of garage door but from a different manufacturer (living in Europe, having something "close"). However some day with a failed torsion spring (simply broke within the windings after 15 years of usage) I ended up with a similiar situation. So I have a close idea what amount of work it was - funny thing : That time I used my 2036R to lift the door ... Those compact tractors appear to be like a swiss army knife, you can use it for anything. I'm really curios what happened to that garage door opener, by the force of that springs I could imagine teared up gears or something like that.
For the question about pipe or solid rod, do not worry even if it sounds strange the "strength" is on the "outside". If you calculate for torsion strength of that steel it does not make a real difference if its a pipe with that size of wall you have or if it is solid rod. For example quite similar if you bend a (square) pipe - the strength is on the sides from where the force is coming, the sidewalls do not really have any noticable effect on the bending strength but they are important anyway to stabilize the tensioned pieces in distance. Truely unbelievable but thats what the math says if you calculate it.
Of course if it is like in your case that there is a "knife" constantly cutting it doesn't matter if it is solid rod or pipe, in the end it's a matter of time. Along with the force of those powerful torsion springs I would not expect a solid rod to last much longer than the pipe did. Solid rod may have lasted a 10-20 cycles more in the same situation an would have been twisted in pieces by the spring's torsion force. The main difference is simply the weigth of the thing, pipe is for sure not that heavy to lift to the top of the door ...
Sorry, english is not my native language so I hope it's at least a bit understandable.
Yup, always a sucky time when a purchase that is supposed to be one and done doesn't last a reasonable amount of time. Just plain irritating to me:then I get to work fixing it the way it should have been done/built in the first place.
Right…but this time was my fault. Sometimes that is even MORE frustrating!
It looks like the opener is mounted not level. Looks like the top of the opener is kicked to the right. Putting more pressure on the motor.
Happened during the incident. The top of the opener is flexible specifically so that it CAN flex as necessary.
Perhaps a call to a local garage door company can put you on the right path to a solid rod that you want.
i blame powell ... something had to break ... svb and your garage!
Ha! #Endthefed
Call a professional when dealing with spring tension it can be a killer.
I work in a sawmill so I know your pain...... I've witnessed door failures many times, but usually its a forklift taking them out. I swear I've seen one that was all the way up fall to the floor with an acceleration of around 38 feet/second/second 😱😱
If that opener is what I think it is, programming the limits are a pain in the behind. "Hold the button down for at least 2 seconds but no longer than 2.3 seconds to get into programming mode. Then hold the button and it will go up and to set the upper limit, push the other button precisely 1.68 seconds to save it......." 🤬🤬🤬
Those doors when things go bad need a professional! You need to start over with the lift mechanism. Take both sides loosed and put the door down and start over. Let the tension off first.