Nope he lost that gift. It's the only explanation for him still being alive post implantation (well that and him being a Primarch). See the nails tended to make any psychics they were implanted in explode. It is why none of the the World Eater librarians were ever implanted. The one time they tried resulted in a librarian detonating with enough force to blow a hole in a starship.
@@LordOmnissiah Holy fuck! I didn't know they did that to psykers! The nails feel like Khorne made technology. Like evil Fabius Bile tech. Do you know who created the butcher's nails?
@@Robert-wf7xu it's definitely dark age tech. But I would like to know how that came to be. Who was mad enough to make them? And did khorne perhaps have a small hand in it.
Knowing this about Angron, that fan comic about a chaos space marine hugging an imperial guard and saying "No one will ever believe you", makes a lot of sense.
Funny the Emperor intervenes to help Mortarion, earning his eternal resentment, and fails to do so for Angron, where he could have earned his eternal loyalty.
That’s because mortarian could have done it eventually the emperor showing up forced his timetable. Which is why the emperor was like okay I’ll give you a chance to do it yourself. Angron failed and he would have been killed. Corvus has a similar thing to Mortarian.
I wonder if angron would have attacked the 12th legion like remember he and his eater of cities were crazed berserkers at the time the emperor saved angron
It seems to be that Angron was meant to be the more brunt force of the Primarch but would have the instinct to remember that he has to save normal people first before mindless destruction. I get a vibe that he could’ve possibly been a Vulkan type of Primarch in that he has clear compassion for humanity but will be the Emperor’s hammer when needs be. I could see him have closer relations with Sanguinius, Vulkan, maybe Ferrus, Leman and possibly Jaghatai. That’s just my take though
I think - possibly - he was intended to be the Tank Healer so to speak - able to dish out vast damage and fix people up. It's the one thing the Primarchs are lacking. It sounds like he was originally an empath.
if we go with the theory that each primarch was supposed to embody one aspect of the emperor, he might have been his love for humatity (but then whats corax?)
fitting since that is an aspect of himself that the emperor put on the backburner in pursuit of building the imperium similar to how it was made impossible for Angron to develop that potential)
I totally agree dude. If it weren't for the Butcher's Nails, I think that Angron and Vulkan would've probably been the best of friends. Though I think that he might actually have been good friends with Sanguinius as well, because who doesn't love Sanguinius.
it makes sense that the aspect of empathy would be corrupted and turned into frustrated anger in such a grimdark setting truly the saddest and most grimdark part of 40k to me
@@zr15-hb21 Vulkan, I think, is the artificer, with his brotierness more an effect of Nocturne being an all around decent society. Sanguinius is probably something like the exemplar, signifying how the emperor embodys the untapped potential of all of humanity. Tho not all primarchs are as clear cut/obvious in their aspect as some others.
This just made me realize....Angron's gift from the Emperor. He was an empath, a type of psyker that can feel another person's emotions. With the agonizing pain the slaves felt hurting him, his ability to remove the pain and fear from the sleeping boy, and then all of the gladiators that night soon after, it became more and more apparent. It is such a shame that we don't see more of this! How cruel the fates of chaos are to Angron to deny such a gift from mankind. Empathy was Angron's true nature, and to be made into nothing but a raging, bloodthirsty monstrosity is such a shame. I feel like Big E is gonna have more than a few words with Khorne about that one.
all the primarch falls are sad, but Angron's is especially tragic, i think him and Konrad are the only ones that through no fault of their own fell even before they had a chance to be saved by the emps.
@@joshuaalan1360 i dont believe it would have made much of a difference, he did this for Mortarion and he still fell, and Morty did not even have the nails... i believe Angron was completely destroyed when he got nails implanted and sad as it is, a mercy kill by his father was the only thing he could offer Angron...that or put him in stasis like Guilliman until the mechanicus or the Emperor himself could find a solution, sadly he wanted generals not sons.
@@catalinn7092 I personally feel like morty's situation was completely different when both their fights were interrupted. Mortarion's last fight was the peak of the mountain, his final goal of facing his father and securing a future for Barbarus and it's people, something incredibly personal. And then the emperor shows up and either not understanding or not caring about his goal, kills the witch-lord in one stroke as morty falls ill to the poisonous gasses surrounding him. What the emperor could have done with angron would be to offer angron the chance to fight by his side, custodes and warhounds as well, crushing the high riders under gold and steel. THAT more than anything would have earned angron's eternal loyalty and respect, while the same offer would be seen by morty as an insult
ive been thinking...what if the demon primarch angron´s chaos corruption or just time eroded his nails away, khorne keeping him alive throughout as his brain regenerated. he could perhaps awaken this power again, and you could go two ways from there. one is that he could use this power to remove pain and fear from his own warriors while taking pride, determination and rage away from his enemies, making them only feel fear and doubts. This wouldnt do much for angron´s character but it would make him a TERRYFYING named enemy. the second is that he could regain a part or all of his cognisance and emotions. he could perhaps realise Leman´s lesson to him from the night of the wolf and feel disgusted and ashamed at what he did and what he became, then he could go looking for ways to repent, where he couldnt find any (because i dont think a daemon prince, much less a primarch could be reverted), so he looked for a way to just die and end his suffering and slavery. he could attack fenris with an army that he involuntarily assembled by his advance out of the warp. he would even maybe come close to defeating the wolves, only for Leman to appear. Then, as the batle raged on, andgron would land next to leman, telling him that h now sees what he was trying to teach him at wolf´s night and asking him for mercy in the form of a quick death, which he would be granted. This would give a good reason for leman to return, while also giving Angron a worthy end, whaddya think?
I belive that much like Sanguinius, Angron was meant to temper the savagery of his legion with compassion. To give them a reason to charge into enemy that wasnt just to burn the world down. The War Hounds were meant to fight and die together as brothers and leave behind a galaxy where humanity wound no longer have to.
He made his legion feral, they were always I think intended to have an unwilling primarch just not an unruly one. Early terran 9th was a swarming hammer of mcguyver locusts making everything a nail or food. Sanguinius just made a point that it has to be worth it usually, mostly by way of crafts. This is a throughline all the way into the present where they obsessively weight brutality against artfulness and resource preservation. The warhounds were brutal because it was efficient yet very accommodating to the idea of not overstaying their welcome.
I think he represented the Emperors fatherhood. He would be a compassionate, patient, yet authoritive figure to his legion and the rest of the imperium as a whole. Chaos robbed us of the kind of primarch that would be second only to Sanguinius.
Angron was an empath warrior. He was meant to draw in negative energy from his allies around him, and then channel it into power. He would heal and buff and channel that negative feeling through himself because he was able to handle it. He was designed to. But then this power was perverted when the nails filled his brain to the brim with negative emotions at all times.
I burst into tears listening to this and it has turned my perspective on angron I'm always felt deep in my heart there was more to him than meets the eye
Aeldari: "Our visions show us the Blood he will spill. He must die!" *fails to kill Angron, commotion draws attention from the slaver people* Angron: *now put on the path of bloodshed* Aeldari: "See? We were right all along!"
@@Koppu1doragon except Slaanesh, that's not their fault. And the wars of Armageddon. Eldrad is just an austere religious scholar and wise one. All I can say is that they DEFINITELY dont deserve the eternal damnation of she who thirsts.
@@rickconnolly5006 Imagine the mental gymnastics required to say that it's not their fault they murder fucked a god of chaos into existence by acting like fucking dark eldar before dark eldar were a thing.
Dude, this hurt my heart to listen to. What happened to Angron and what he could've been-- should've been-- goes beyond tragedy into a truly sickening sadism. What fate, the sickening actions of the High Riders, the twisted machinations of the Dark Gods, and the unforgivable great mistake of the Emperor did to the character of a man who was meant to be a healer and a compassionate hero of men makes me sick inside. Even for the 40K universe, this one was hard to hear. Especially knowing the uncaring, near-mindless, bloodthirsty monstrosity that we see in the modern setting, used more as a set piece and monster to be used for heroes to be measured against than as a fallen angel who was once a Primarch of men. It's just so cruel, man.
Yeah but without the Butcher's Nails Angron would have been named Empathon. So be silent you little flower and accept that Big E named him Angron because Big E always intended for Angron to serve Khorne as a slave. No theories needed, it's all in the name.
@@NathanielRHamrick Big E didn't name him that. In fact, I don't think any of them had the names they originally were meant to have, but they were given those names from the languages of their adoptive parents (or in Angron's case, his captor).
@@OmniGSage This insults the greatest psyker in the universe! Emperor knew Chaos was gonna suck his kids up and transport them across the galaxy. He intervened to make sure each would go to a planet where their personality would be matched and they would grow wise. Emperor basically chose those planets himself. Saying otherwise simply insults his godhood. ;)
@@NathanielRHamrick this theory is wrong on so many levels. 1. As the other guy stated, most of the primarchs got their names from their adoptive home world. 2. New lore reveals that the one who scattered the primarchs was not chaos, but the primarchs newly revealed "mother" 3. If the emperor is so godly and all knowing, I doubt that he would have wanted ANY of his sons serving chaos as that would bring his dream of total dominion to a halt and leave him as the cripple that he is on the golden throne. Sorry but the evil emperor theory doesn't completely add up to the overwhelming evidence of all the new lore we're getting 😉
@@gundamsentinel959 Who says the emperor has to be evil? It fits perfectly with a "sacrificing" "strategic" "planning" emperor to have him give a few sons to Chaos. Losing a battle to win the war. It fits with a doting, loving father who has to give up his only sons. No one said the word evil except you. Bible: God gave his only begotten son. Gundam Sentinel: No way man, God isn't evil. We don't have an evil god. i hate this lore >:(
Angron.... The counselor? 🤔 His Primarch brothers could go to him to ease their minds and souls from the constant environment of war and death. Angron, great name for a counselor. 😜
Angron had it worse than the lion and russ, the man was allowed to see the kindness of his fellow man, but he also knew the callousness of other humans. He would have to either fight said men in the Arena or go to bed knowing that another one of his friends died in acid of the Arena. Dying for the entertainment of other humans. Each of their deaths causing him pain. At least the Lion and russ never had to know the loss of a friend in their early years. lets also not forget Angron was enslaved as a mere boy, and had to kill his own father figure. Feel free to disagree
Angron, is the only primarch that I would love an redemption arch on. You're probably going to mention this later this week, but after Angrons transformation he laments his actions. He speaks softly "father..." "Father.." calling out to the emperor while cradled like an infant. He regrets everything, he knows he is a slave, he knows what he has chosen and what he has done. If somehow, angron could "de-demonize" himself, to be purged from khornes grasp and return a whole prime arch, man that would be a story. To have the most broken prime arch, become a savior of the imperium. This is in the far fetch land of fan fiction but man would I love a loyal Angron. Imagine him, it would be like writing a new primearch and imagine guillimans suspicions and conflicts.
This is why I find Angron to be one of my favorite Primarchs. He had a terrible introduction right off the bat, I know others say that Lorgar had one as well, but Angron had no choice but to endure through the terrible harsh Gladiator ship for most of young life growing up, putting the Butchers Nails into his head, slowly killing him. And even then in the end he still couldn't get the death he asked for all those years, and instead he got to be a slave once more for all eternity. I will always and remain to feel sorry for what happen to Angron, and in my opinion, that he had the most tragic life than the rest of the Primarchs. Edit: holy crap I wasn't expecting to get more 50 likes. Thanks guys this doesn't really happens to me a lot.
Don't get me started on Prince of Blood either!!! Wanna talk about a poignant moment, that was one of the saddest and most badass short stories for the legion, Kharn and Angron!!
@@worldeater2414 Yeah, that part where Kharn just finds Angron whimpering and quetly saying "Is it over, Father?", like just imagining, this beast , crying like a kid and looking for support from his dad, which never really loved him, now thats just heartbreaking, whatever anyone thinks of Angron.
@@mcmarkmarkson7115 Save the people Angron was with. Send in the War Hounds, maybe they can earn Angron's respect on Nuceria. That way he won't despise them & they won't put in the butcher's nails themselves for a connection. Angron would still be damaged by the nails, but he may be less likely to turn his wrath at a father figure he doesn't view with contempt.
@@skypants2 i thought it was a time Thing and there was No other option. Nur yea allowing the whole Legion to get the nails was bonkers, although i think he was already lost the Moment the emprah Teleported him. The nails Made them quite effektive, unlike Lorgar.
@@mcmarkmarkson7115 He should have teleported down with the custodes and warhounds, introduced himself to Angron, and wiped out the slavers alongside him. The whole "there's no time" argument he made is stupid. He spent days drinking, eating, and partying with Russ when they reunited. Not to mention hours talking and bonding with Corax (who also led a slave revolt) when they met. The only reason I can see why he would do this, is because he wanted Angron to go bad.
@@burntham113 In hindsight yes, maybe. What if GW then wrote how his brothers disrespected Angron by being the only one that needed daddy to save him, leading him to join the rebellion, might as well have been a vision the Emprah saw. Can't even imagine how a psychic powerhouse like him would be thinking straight with all that power and future reading. Like try looking at your own life, tell yourself what you should do, what could be improved and then see if it works out.
As much i love "Magnus did nothing wrong" after this vod "Angon NEVER had the chance" As for who had it worse my top 3 is Angron Kurze and hmm Mortarion. u guys?
I think angron would have been one of the most powerful loyalists, if the emperor wasn't a doofus. Instead of kidnapping angron, he should have teleported down, and slaughtered the slavers side by side with his son. Would angron still have been a rage monster? Sure, but he would have been a massively loyal one, and one that would have taken Horus' betrayal PERSONALLY. Angron would have remained a broken, borderline insane attack dog, but one guided by the emperor. Perturabo would be the only one besides Horus that could have taken him.
Nobody Important remember the Emps went full retard because Angron didn’t conquer his world. I don’t think he took into account what the Butcher Nails did, or that at least one Primarch would come to a world where he could be subdued by tech.
@@NueThunderKing Well, Big E fucked up big time here, of course. But if Angron was really meant to be the emperors compassion, or love for mankind, even Emps could be struck dumb by this turn of events. I think the Emperor was just insanely sad what they did to his son.
Don't forget he had the entire 12th legion!!! The warhounds would have gladly made planet fall and slaughtered those dogs of nuceria but no he held us back
Perturabo: The one that thought his maker did not trusted him enough to do important things, when in fact he was trusted with missions only him could do it. Angron: The proactive protector of the weak that was turned into a raging berserker. My Lord Wolf Rho, you are starting to make me think on heresy more and more.
I would think that a worse up bringing than the Lion's would be Mortarion's. Being brought up by a monster not even having human contact for much of his early life. Don't know that it is worse than Angron's though.
Angron represented Emperors protective, fatherly side. He beat up the other gladiators but he would teach them to defend themselves better. He covers the boys body as he sleeps so he wouldent catch cold as he sleeps. And he did these while he had the nails in his brain. if he never recieved the nails, he would be the defender of innocents, and doom of anyone who dared threathen his sons and humanity. He would be a second father figure to the imperium.
People whom love the Khornate followers, should really check out the carnage of the newly released Dawn of Fire series. The book really shows the bloodthirst of both cultists and chaotic astartes, the gore and eye focus from a human is absolutely amazing. Khárn is a favorit for sure in my eyes, however every time i read about the World Eater warbands, how they do void-warfare and head on warfare showcase such brutal and straight in your face terror tactics. I wonder if i should start a Chaos tabletop army. I highly recommend the novel, for new comers and veterans of the setting.
@@worldeater2414 Well if i was going to start something, without a doubt it will be 5xterms, 10xchaos-marines, 1-2x (mauler) walkers/robo and a lord Discordant and maybe 20x cultists as well.
I play a World Eater/Khorne Daemon army and they are great. From the outside they seem like a one trick pony, but its a simple brutally efficient strategy that needs a lot of depth to pull off. And there's nothing like charging into your opponent who thinks he's ready for you and underestimate you, but they really aren't ready. That expression of horror when you pull off a nice multi charge and their entire line breaks to some 100+ hits from a 10 man berserker squad, only to find out you can consolidate and fight again a third time is worth it every single time. I have to say that the amount of violence and sheer panic a cavalcade of berserkers can bring has brought me more joy in the game than years of playing normal Space Marines and I'm really looking forward to the inevitable World Eaters codex.
@@Autechltd I can highly recommend you read Dawn of Fire then, it is sooo damn good in regards of Guy Haley's writing of both characters and the horrific terror of brutal 40k warfare. I won't spoil anything, however the majority of it is in fact the begining of which we had through Dark Imperium and Plague Wars (The setup of the Crusade). But man... Are Chaos well written, both sides of the isle is troublesom to say the least. It is so good to see some true carnage of a charging berserker in action, hell even the fear of astartes in void space boarding ships makes me want to get some World Eaters.
We could have had a second Vulcan.....the hugs.....but what would have happened to the war hounds? They were already known for being blood thirsty, controlled but still.
Chain Breakers or Hounds of Freedom nicknamed "Freedom Hounds" by thr Imperium. We could have had a Athena like Primarch, but instead we got Ares. Their schtick would be unique in that, instead of what the War hounds became, they would have specialized over all legios in their ability to inspire true courage in mortals. Angron wouldn't be the Red Angel, but the Angel of Compassion. And wherever they went, his legion and him would become the best legion for Human transhuman relations.
Alligators, wolves, big cats, all terrifying savage killers, but gentle and playful, and protective of their young, and their pack. Thus, the Hounds could be. Imagine a insurgency, a peasant-focussed Alpha Legion, that infiltrates, and provokes revolution amongst the traitors and the oppressed, leading the common folk in violent uprising into the Emperor's Light. Whereas the siege breakers hammer on the walls, the Hounds prowl in the city, gathering and focussing the resentment, grudges and fury of a people oppressed for decades.
@@worldeater2414 The forerunners of the Blood Angels, World Eaters and Space Wolves were all horrifically savage pre-Primarch. All three were at the risk of being censured by the Imperial Government. Indeed the progenitors of the Space Wolves had a special division to enforce discipline by execution of legionaries that got out of hand and went kill-crazy. Sanguinius brought culture, art and honour to the savagery of his legion. Russ brought honour, duty and absolute loyalty to their liege. Angron had been twisted by his upbringing and he brought more violence. Compassion can be a corrosive thing if you are constantly surrounded by suffering you cannot alleviate.
A Lion and Angron interaction would be very interesting...I feel the Lion would pity and be disgusted by Angron's weakness and selfish justification for the needless deaths. Angron on the other hand, would HATE the Lion because while Lion had it just as bad Angron, the Lion was by and large was able to overcome his childhood trauma. Much like the Night Haunter, Angron was never able to move beyond his past, and would be envious and spiteful of the Lions elevation because it would call into question Angron's justification for his terrible actions. Of course the Butcher Nails and Khornes' influence never gave Angron a chance, which is part of the tragedy of the character.
If the emperor had just joined Angron to liberate his people along with his other sons and his Custodes, Angron could've been one of the most loyal primarchs. I never understood why this was so badly mishandled and seems really lazy. Imagine it: There Angron stood with his gladiator brothers. Surrounded and weary, ready to die to fight for their freedom. Angron knows this will likely be his end. He looks around at his gladiator brothers and feels sadness and anger mixed. He just wanted to be free. He just wanted peace. He turned back to face his adversaries, ready to sound the charge. Ready to give his last for his people when suddenly a blinding purple light appears in the skies overhead. The Bucephalus appeared out of Warp along with hundreds of other Imperial ships, all of them ready for a fight. Moments later, beams of light materialise next to and around Angron and his gladiators. Hundreds of warriors clad in gold. Thousands of them, taking up positions around the gladiators, also facing the slavers, ready for a fight. Then right in front of Angron, another light appears. Then several more. The first light took form into a giant of a man clad in gold. His aura was that of pure power and leadership. It was The Emperor. It was his father. "You are not alone in this my son." The Emperor said gently. "You are ever alone." he added as the other lights manifested into the primarchs. His brothers. Suddenly Angron felt a new feeling, a new emotion. Hope. Hope for the first time, a sense of relief for what the Emperor said was true. He was never alone. Turning towards the Slavers, The Emperor unsheathed his flaming greatsword and sounded the charge. Angeron got more that just liberation. He got to fight alongside his very own father and his brothers. If the story played out like that Angron would've been one of the greatest of the loyalists.
There was a story someone else can up with that I loved, roughly the same premise but slightly altered. Angron is ready to die with his fellow slaves, when streaks of light burst forth from above. Angrons legion, the War Hounds, deep strike into the slaver army. The battle is obscured by dust and ash but when the screams stop and the bolters are silent, the entire War Hound legion walks up to Angron and kneels in the dust & dirt. Angron and his slave brothers and sisters stare dumbfounded before the blood soaked legionnaires who proclaim their loyalty to their genefather and wait for this command and thus Angron takes the mantle of Primarch with a legion he trusts and his comrades alive.
The pain of Angrons memories when he lands on his home world at the field of bones with Lorgar is brilliantly captured by Jonathan Keeble in the Audio book betrayer. There is Such emotion in this performance that I was moved to righteous tears
I knew there more to him than just the blood thirsty warrior and people look at me like im crazy for thinking it. You sir gain a follow for covering him. I'm looking forward to more
So glad this exists to shed light on one of my favorite Primarchs. I think it's often forgotten that, believing Lorgar actually cares for him, Angron makes sacrifices to save his brother. He literally holds up a titan's foot to give Lorgar a chance to escape. The strength of this act is phenomenal, and he holds up the titan despite his body being crushed slowly, his ribs being cracked and compressed under the weight. This is an act of extreme physicality and compassion that one would think only Vulkan capable of, but it was Angron.
Im amazed of how quickly your channel has grow, i still remember the day i found this channel with your "Vulkan meets the emperor" and so far i havent miss a single video of you, keep on please, you keep giving reasons to buy the novels
Pre deamonhood Angron is my favourite primarch, his backstory is glorious i guess i like it so much because I'm a fan of that gladiator, Spartacus vibe
The emperor, Creator of the primarchs and the astartes, Lived through different ages of human existence, Replicates eldar webway, powers the astronomicon that can be seen light years away, Strongest psyker, A divine being and Yet does not know how to remove the butchers nails or just put angron in a stasis until he figures it out...
With great respect to other channels who talk about 40K, you sir are the best. I can feel the story and understand the the worldview of the people. Thank you so much for all that you do.
Literally jumped out of my skin when I saw this. Rho put all the primarchs in a light as to make them newly understood and liked . bless you Rho for your continued talent and entertainment !
Finally it's the week I've been waiting for! I like how you threw in what "what if " scenarios! I think every Primarh was one second away from an altered life then what ended up with. Although, I surprised with the part of him helping everyone go to sleep. No surprised by his level of torment and how he expresses those feelings!
I've always said Angron without the nails could have been the best of them all, the Warhounds were all about brotherhood. it was taken away from him with the nails and the Emperor took him away from his family and let them die. no wonder he hated the Emperor.
he felt everyone's pain, and carried it with him. eventually that and the Nails did him in. as for what he was meant to be, I think first off, it appears that every Primarch was supposed to be mirrored by another (Iron Hands/Death Guard for resilience, Night Lords/Raven Guard for stealth). I think he would have been either Russ' Mirror, or Vulkan's.
@@codyyoutz I thought of that. but his empathy as exhibited by how he treated Jochura and his hesitance to let people suffer even when they're trying to kill him ref: the pyramid and the acid bath seems more Vulkan.
wow three minutes in and it's abundantly clear that it was the Eldar who made Angron who he is. It seems to me, that the Eldar, while always trying to do the right thing with their farsight, they always seem to do much more harm.
Even without the nails I can see why he would be mad. With him absorbing all of those people's horrible traumas I can see that actually boosting his rage once he gets the butchers nails.
"Which of his brothers could he foster a relationship with?" My guesses will be Lorgar and Vulkan. Vulkan embodies the Emperor's compassion for humanity, and now we know that Angron was capable of empathizing with his fellow gladiators, even going to absorb their pains and take it within himself. It's too bad Vulkan and Angron never had any meaningful chances to interact with each other. As for Lorgar, we have already seen him caring for Angron in his own twisted way (having fallen to Chaos and such), to the point of elevating him into a daemon prince just to ensure the Butcher's Nails does not kill him. I can see the same dynamic happening even if the two had not fallen sway to the ruinous powers, similar to the friendship between Magnus and Jaghatai Khan.
I knew his story was a tagic one and always felt empathy for him, but I had no idea about this and it adds a whole new level of sympathy . Logar as a healer in the Imperium would of been epic and I can only imagine the bond that would have grown between him and Vulkan
I think of him more often than not like an Angel of death, like he had a gift that literally allowed him to master any weapon he touches, as said in the novel. That along with his natural ability to feel and take away other people's pain make a good fit for one.
What was true and noble in Angron died when the Emperor saved him from death by revolution. He knew apart of him, the best of him, had been mutilated. Angron wanted to die with his family attempting to exact vengeance on the rulers of that planet for he knew if he lived he’d only be a slave to the nails. The novel was so so tragic. Definitely a tale worthy of the 40k universe.
I always love hearing about the true stories of the Heretic Astartes primarchs. I don't get to hear them much as all I ever really get from playgroups is the stereotypes. But as a legion is founded with the geneseed of their primarch, the scene of Kharn approaching the Iron Warriors becomes even more powerful. "You shouldn't be here" As Kharn is probably quaking with the pain and blood of his brothers haunting him to the core. And the World Eaters as a legion, could have been one of the Imperium's greatest saviors, if the Emperor realized who his sons really were
An interesting theory I’ve heard about pre-nails Angron’s purpose was to have an incredibly strong sense of family. Essentially have him act as the glue to keep all the primarchs together, or at least less likely to murder each other
This novel does explain why the normally caring Emperor was so disappointed with Angron. The Emperor wanted a healer, somebody who could draw the frustrations of his brothers out in the open where they could be dealt with, but instead He got a butcher.
well i reckon he could of done something about it but couldnt be bothered even though he claimed to Land he couldnt he could of took the time to research the nails more thoroughly and considering one of the 15th told Kharn i think it was that he could remove the nails i think lends credence that the emps lied to Land about not being able to remove the nails
@@Aristaios The nails *COULD* be removed from Astartes, but not from Angron, because Angron has had them for too long and his Primarch healing powers fused them into his brain, which was killing him slowly. The nails really couldn't be removed from Angron anymore without killing him. Which is the only reason Angron resorted to ascension to Daemonhood, since as an "immortal" being the nails couldn't kill him anymore. But most Astartes don't have that healing factor that strongly so their nails could be removed.
Angron, the empath, the warrior.... I have a theory about the man he was supposed to be: the aspect of camaraderie, honour and respect between warriors, THE soldier, as an oplite, a man fighting with his peers, sharing the burden of the fatigue and the joy of battle, the pain of the wounds and the elation of victory. Even if the Warhounds were a brutal legion, and more so as the World Eaters, they always had one characteristic, repeated in the novels by many characters, Angron and Kharn too, the concept of brotherhood: no matter where you come from (they recruited from any and all worlds, without a single gene stock), no matter your nature, or your hates and fears, you were a member of something larger, something that stood even after the curse of the Nails, even in the first days of their fall to Khorne. The fight in the fighting pits, the rituals, the tactics. Angron, the Warrior King. What do you think?
@@brandonhughes4571 it would be cool. Imagine if he's slaughtering out of compassion. Ending suffering. One possibility. Or he'll start getting his humanity back. Nothing says it's a one way trip, especially for a Primarch who was originally made from the stuff of the warp.
@@darkelite1829 lol. Nothing Cannon or even hinted at. Angron is mindless rage and bloodlust incarnate. I was just imagining some complexity and an unexpected twist.
I think that, if it weren't for the Butcher's Nails, that Angron might've actually been able to really connect with Vulkan of all primarchs. It's pretty clear that they were both compassionate and caring individuals. I just wish that the other primarchs could've learned about just how bad Angron had it, then some of them might've sympathized with their brother more.
Thinking about what Angron and his legion could have been inspired my all time fave 40k project. Of all the Primarchs, he was the one truly robbed of his future.
Thank you for doing Angron sir. You are doing the real stuff here. There is so much to learn from Angron’s story. Congrats on 60k as well. Your commentary continues to be on point. Well met.
also be sure to read the "betrayer blood for the blood god" book were it shows angron returning to the world during the heresy and visiting his "brothers and sisters" grave for as aggro as angron is i really do think he loves HARDER than any other primarch except maybe sanguinius
If the Emperor wants to keep chaos in check forever (once he fights the final battle and wins) he most give each chaos realm to his fallen primarchs: realm of tzeentch to magnus, realm of slaanesh to fulgrim, realm of nurgle to mortarion and realm of khorne to angron. (And perhaps even the final and secret 5th chaos god malice to conrad kurze).
He could have been made to be one of the most compassionate generals / leaders of all of them. Only sadly to become a product of an evil world comprised of monsters...
That's pretty awesome, Oenomaus was another gladiator who escaped with Spartacus and Crixus. So was therefore involved in the third servile War. I love the real world history and theology blended in everywhere...
Which adds a different dynamic if you think about it because they never found spartacus' body... They did, however, find the bodies of Oenomaus and Crixus... so that to me it's like him kind of disappearing while the people on Nuceria, his friends, died...
Favorite primarch by far. The legendary quote rocked my world when i first read it. Especially since prior to the Betrayer book, i always tought he was the dullest simplest stereotipycal cliché of 40k. How wrong i was...
This reminds of The Dark Knight, starring Christian Bale; the conversation he's having with Gordon as I recall: "It was you, it was supposed to be you. You were the best of us" The potential future the Emperor believed he had been preparing for would have needed leaders better than he. With more heart than Vulcan, as much honor as Guilliman, and I'd think he'd need a degree of compassion unlike the others. The Warp or Tzeench or whatever, would have wanted not only to divide and conquer, but to break the best of them through malicious machinations.
This gives another twist, if he can feel the pain around him then the carnage he inflicts must have driven him madder
The nails basically erased that gift. Plus the slavery and slaughter he was in. The nails have a very bad effect on the gifted.
Nope he lost that gift. It's the only explanation for him still being alive post implantation (well that and him being a Primarch). See the nails tended to make any psychics they were implanted in explode. It is why none of the the World Eater librarians were ever implanted. The one time they tried resulted in a librarian detonating with enough force to blow a hole in a starship.
@@LordOmnissiah Holy fuck! I didn't know they did that to psykers! The nails feel like Khorne made technology. Like evil Fabius Bile tech. Do you know who created the butcher's nails?
@@R.J.MacReady1982 it is part of dark age tech which was used to turn normal pepole into efficent soldiers and killers.
@@Robert-wf7xu it's definitely dark age tech. But I would like to know how that came to be. Who was mad enough to make them? And did khorne perhaps have a small hand in it.
Knowing this about Angron, that fan comic about a chaos space marine hugging an imperial guard and saying "No one will ever believe you", makes a lot of sense.
Funny the Emperor intervenes to help Mortarion, earning his eternal resentment, and fails to do so for Angron, where he could have earned his eternal loyalty.
That’s because mortarian could have done it eventually the emperor showing up forced his timetable. Which is why the emperor was like okay I’ll give you a chance to do it yourself.
Angron failed and he would have been killed.
Corvus has a similar thing to Mortarian.
@@avatar2xl or the emperor could of just given him the 12th legion like in the Dornian Heresy
I wonder if angron would have attacked the 12th legion like remember he and his eater of cities were crazed berserkers at the time the emperor saved angron
@@Aristaios taco Tuesday is on Friday
Mortarion was going to lose the fight and the Emperor stepped in.
I think Sanguinious and pre nails Angron would have been really close personally.
That's an interesting point. I must say, I agree.
Yes! well said brother!
Vulkan too.
@@Teyl1 No love for Jagatai?
Interesting that both legions fought together often before their Primarchs were found
It seems to be that Angron was meant to be the more brunt force of the Primarch but would have the instinct to remember that he has to save normal people first before mindless destruction. I get a vibe that he could’ve possibly been a Vulkan type of Primarch in that he has clear compassion for humanity but will be the Emperor’s hammer when needs be. I could see him have closer relations with Sanguinius, Vulkan, maybe Ferrus, Leman and possibly Jaghatai. That’s just my take though
I think - possibly - he was intended to be the Tank Healer so to speak - able to dish out vast damage and fix people up. It's the one thing the Primarchs are lacking. It sounds like he was originally an empath.
if we go with the theory that each primarch was supposed to embody one aspect of the emperor, he might have been his love for humatity (but then whats corax?)
fitting since that is an aspect of himself that the emperor put on the backburner in pursuit of building the imperium similar to how it was made impossible for Angron to develop that potential)
I totally agree dude.
If it weren't for the Butcher's Nails, I think that Angron and Vulkan would've probably been the best of friends.
Though I think that he might actually have been good friends with Sanguinius as well, because who doesn't love Sanguinius.
@@chubbyninja89 and in that reality Sanguinius would probably have been the go to, slaughter them with extreme prejudice in melee, Primarch,fun.
Angron the emperor’s empathy.
Thought that was Vulkan or Sanguinius
@@jackstrayfeald1007 with this pasage i think Vulkan would be love for humans and Sanguinius would be ¿Divinity?
it makes sense that the aspect of empathy would be corrupted and turned into frustrated anger in such a grimdark setting
truly the saddest and most grimdark part of 40k to me
would be fitting since thats an aspect of himself that the emperor apparently burned away in his building of the imperium
@@zr15-hb21 Vulkan, I think, is the artificer, with his brotierness more an effect of Nocturne being an all around decent society. Sanguinius is probably something like the exemplar, signifying how the emperor embodys the untapped potential of all of humanity. Tho not all primarchs are as clear cut/obvious in their aspect as some others.
This just made me realize....Angron's gift from the Emperor. He was an empath, a type of psyker that can feel another person's emotions. With the agonizing pain the slaves felt hurting him, his ability to remove the pain and fear from the sleeping boy, and then all of the gladiators that night soon after, it became more and more apparent. It is such a shame that we don't see more of this! How cruel the fates of chaos are to Angron to deny such a gift from mankind. Empathy was Angron's true nature, and to be made into nothing but a raging, bloodthirsty monstrosity is such a shame. I feel like Big E is gonna have more than a few words with Khorne about that one.
all the primarch falls are sad, but Angron's is especially tragic, i think him and Konrad are the only ones that through no fault of their own fell even before they had a chance to be saved by the emps.
It’s directly the Emperor’s fault though. He could have earned Angron’s eternal loyalty that day on the mountain.
@@joshuaalan1360 i dont believe it would have made much of a difference, he did this for Mortarion and he still fell, and Morty did not even have the nails... i believe Angron was completely destroyed when he got nails implanted and sad as it is, a mercy kill by his father was the only thing he could offer Angron...that or put him in stasis like Guilliman until the mechanicus or the Emperor himself could find a solution, sadly he wanted generals not sons.
@@catalinn7092 I personally feel like morty's situation was completely different when both their fights were interrupted. Mortarion's last fight was the peak of the mountain, his final goal of facing his father and securing a future for Barbarus and it's people, something incredibly personal. And then the emperor shows up and either not understanding or not caring about his goal, kills the witch-lord in one stroke as morty falls ill to the poisonous gasses surrounding him. What the emperor could have done with angron would be to offer angron the chance to fight by his side, custodes and warhounds as well, crushing the high riders under gold and steel. THAT more than anything would have earned angron's eternal loyalty and respect, while the same offer would be seen by morty as an insult
ive been thinking...what if the demon primarch angron´s chaos corruption or just time eroded his nails away, khorne keeping him alive throughout as his brain regenerated. he could perhaps awaken this power again, and you could go two ways from there. one is that he could use this power to remove pain and fear from his own warriors while taking pride, determination and rage away from his enemies, making them only feel fear and doubts. This wouldnt do much for angron´s character but it would make him a TERRYFYING named enemy. the second is that he could regain a part or all of his cognisance and emotions. he could perhaps realise Leman´s lesson to him from the night of the wolf and feel disgusted and ashamed at what he did and what he became, then he could go looking for ways to repent, where he couldnt find any (because i dont think a daemon prince, much less a primarch could be reverted), so he looked for a way to just die and end his suffering and slavery. he could attack fenris with an army that he involuntarily assembled by his advance out of the warp. he would even maybe come close to defeating the wolves, only for Leman to appear. Then, as the batle raged on, andgron would land next to leman, telling him that h now sees what he was trying to teach him at wolf´s night and asking him for mercy in the form of a quick death, which he would be granted. This would give a good reason for leman to return, while also giving Angron a worthy end, whaddya think?
I belive that much like Sanguinius, Angron was meant to temper the savagery of his legion with compassion. To give them a reason to charge into enemy that wasnt just to burn the world down. The War Hounds were meant to fight and die together as brothers and leave behind a galaxy where humanity wound no longer have to.
agreed likw in the Dorian Heresy martial honour would of played a big role in tempering the legions more aggressiveness
He made his legion feral, they were always I think intended to have an unwilling primarch just not an unruly one. Early terran 9th was a swarming hammer of mcguyver locusts making everything a nail or food. Sanguinius just made a point that it has to be worth it usually, mostly by way of crafts. This is a throughline all the way into the present where they obsessively weight brutality against artfulness and resource preservation. The warhounds were brutal because it was efficient yet very accommodating to the idea of not overstaying their welcome.
But War Hounds were quite level headed legion. So they would've shared their primarch's compassion.
I think he represented the Emperors fatherhood. He would be a compassionate, patient, yet authoritive figure to his legion and the rest of the imperium as a whole. Chaos robbed us of the kind of primarch that would be second only to Sanguinius.
The small bits of humanity Angron finds during his upbringing is in a cruel twist of irony the final nails for his coffin.
Heh, nails.
Angron was an empath warrior. He was meant to draw in negative energy from his allies around him, and then channel it into power. He would heal and buff and channel that negative feeling through himself because he was able to handle it. He was designed to. But then this power was perverted when the nails filled his brain to the brim with negative emotions at all times.
I burst into tears listening to this and it has turned my perspective on angron I'm always felt deep in my heart there was more to him than meets the eye
Heartbreaking
The conversation between demon angron and the silent corpse of his father was quite sad too...
Aeldari: "Our visions show us the Blood he will spill. He must die!" *fails to kill Angron, commotion draws attention from the slaver people*
Angron: *now put on the path of bloodshed*
Aeldari: "See? We were right all along!"
Eldar: masters of the self-fulfilling prophecy
As always everything is the Eldar's fault.
@@Koppu1doragon It is! That's what the floating gold guy with the spooky scary metal skeletons told me!
@@Koppu1doragon except Slaanesh, that's not their fault. And the wars of Armageddon. Eldrad is just an austere religious scholar and wise one.
All I can say is that they DEFINITELY dont deserve the eternal damnation of she who thirsts.
@@rickconnolly5006 Imagine the mental gymnastics required to say that it's not their fault they murder fucked a god of chaos into existence by acting like fucking dark eldar before dark eldar were a thing.
Can't wait till you cover when angron was forced to kill his adopted father in the arena
What book is that in
His Primarch book slave of Nuceria
Dude, this hurt my heart to listen to. What happened to Angron and what he could've been-- should've been-- goes beyond tragedy into a truly sickening sadism. What fate, the sickening actions of the High Riders, the twisted machinations of the Dark Gods, and the unforgivable great mistake of the Emperor did to the character of a man who was meant to be a healer and a compassionate hero of men makes me sick inside. Even for the 40K universe, this one was hard to hear. Especially knowing the uncaring, near-mindless, bloodthirsty monstrosity that we see in the modern setting, used more as a set piece and monster to be used for heroes to be measured against than as a fallen angel who was once a Primarch of men. It's just so cruel, man.
Yeah but without the Butcher's Nails Angron would have been named Empathon. So be silent you little flower and accept that Big E named him Angron because Big E always intended for Angron to serve Khorne as a slave. No theories needed, it's all in the name.
@@NathanielRHamrick Big E didn't name him that. In fact, I don't think any of them had the names they originally were meant to have, but they were given those names from the languages of their adoptive parents (or in Angron's case, his captor).
@@OmniGSage This insults the greatest psyker in the universe! Emperor knew Chaos was gonna suck his kids up and transport them across the galaxy. He intervened to make sure each would go to a planet where their personality would be matched and they would grow wise. Emperor basically chose those planets himself. Saying otherwise simply insults his godhood. ;)
@@NathanielRHamrick this theory is wrong on so many levels.
1. As the other guy stated, most of the primarchs got their names from their adoptive home world.
2. New lore reveals that the one who scattered the primarchs was not chaos, but the primarchs newly revealed "mother"
3. If the emperor is so godly and all knowing, I doubt that he would have wanted ANY of his sons serving chaos as that would bring his dream of total dominion to a halt and leave him as the cripple that he is on the golden throne.
Sorry but the evil emperor theory doesn't completely add up to the overwhelming evidence of all the new lore we're getting 😉
@@gundamsentinel959 Who says the emperor has to be evil? It fits perfectly with a "sacrificing" "strategic" "planning" emperor to have him give a few sons to Chaos. Losing a battle to win the war. It fits with a doting, loving father who has to give up his only sons. No one said the word evil except you.
Bible: God gave his only begotten son.
Gundam Sentinel: No way man, God isn't evil. We don't have an evil god. i hate this lore >:(
Angron....
The counselor? 🤔
His Primarch brothers could go to him to ease their minds and souls from the constant environment of war and death.
Angron, great name for a counselor. 😜
And he has to wear the outfits of counselor troi from Star Trek TNG
Just imagine, the butcher of world comforting his brothers, giving them psychic healing hugs. Fuck the Emps, he really failed him.
He could have eased the PTSD of the iron warriors.
We could have honestly had one of the most wholesome relationships in the form of Sanguinius and Curze coming to Angron for thier visions.
Angron had it worse than the lion and russ, the man was allowed to see the kindness of his fellow man, but he also knew the callousness of other humans. He would have to either fight said men in the Arena or go to bed knowing that another one of his friends died in acid of the Arena. Dying for the entertainment of other humans. Each of their deaths causing him pain. At least the Lion and russ never had to know the loss of a friend in their early years. lets also not forget Angron was enslaved as a mere boy, and had to kill his own father figure. Feel free to disagree
Angron, is the only primarch that I would love an redemption arch on.
You're probably going to mention this later this week, but after Angrons transformation he laments his actions. He speaks softly "father..." "Father.." calling out to the emperor while cradled like an infant. He regrets everything, he knows he is a slave, he knows what he has chosen and what he has done. If somehow, angron could "de-demonize" himself, to be purged from khornes grasp and return a whole prime arch, man that would be a story. To have the most broken prime arch, become a savior of the imperium.
This is in the far fetch land of fan fiction but man would I love a loyal Angron. Imagine him, it would be like writing a new primearch and imagine guillimans suspicions and conflicts.
Angron becoming the main caracter instead of Gulliman would be so cool.
This is why I find Angron to be one of my favorite Primarchs. He had a terrible introduction right off the bat, I know others say that Lorgar had one as well, but Angron had no choice but to endure through the terrible harsh Gladiator ship for most of young life growing up, putting the Butchers Nails into his head, slowly killing him. And even then in the end he still couldn't get the death he asked for all those years, and instead he got to be a slave once more for all eternity. I will always and remain to feel sorry for what happen to Angron, and in my opinion, that he had the most tragic life than the rest of the Primarchs.
Edit: holy crap I wasn't expecting to get more 50 likes. Thanks guys this doesn't really happens to me a lot.
Don't get me started on Prince of Blood either!!! Wanna talk about a poignant moment, that was one of the saddest and most badass short stories for the legion, Kharn and Angron!!
Yea I only pity that heretic
@@iconicjet3043 Says the boi whose legion burns children.
@@worldeater2414 *Eldar Children
@@worldeater2414 Yeah, that part where Kharn just finds Angron whimpering and quetly saying "Is it over, Father?", like just imagining, this beast , crying like a kid and looking for support from his dad, which never really loved him, now thats just heartbreaking, whatever anyone thinks of Angron.
If there ever will be a possibility for redemption, I want Angron to be the one to come back to the good side.
Angron was failed by everyone around him. The Emperor especially. He's a tragic victim of his surroundings.
What could the Emperor have done?
@@mcmarkmarkson7115
Save the people Angron was with. Send in the War Hounds, maybe they can earn Angron's respect on Nuceria. That way he won't despise them & they won't put in the butcher's nails themselves for a connection. Angron would still be damaged by the nails, but he may be less likely to turn his wrath at a father figure he doesn't view with contempt.
@@skypants2 i thought it was a time Thing and there was No other option. Nur yea allowing the whole Legion to get the nails was bonkers, although i think he was already lost the Moment the emprah Teleported him. The nails Made them quite effektive, unlike Lorgar.
@@mcmarkmarkson7115 He should have teleported down with the custodes and warhounds, introduced himself to Angron, and wiped out the slavers alongside him. The whole "there's no time" argument he made is stupid. He spent days drinking, eating, and partying with Russ when they reunited. Not to mention hours talking and bonding with Corax (who also led a slave revolt) when they met.
The only reason I can see why he would do this, is because he wanted Angron to go bad.
@@burntham113 In hindsight yes, maybe. What if GW then wrote how his brothers disrespected Angron by being the only one that needed daddy to save him, leading him to join the rebellion, might as well have been a vision the Emprah saw. Can't even imagine how a psychic powerhouse like him would be thinking straight with all that power and future reading.
Like try looking at your own life, tell yourself what you should do, what could be improved and then see if it works out.
As much i love "Magnus did nothing wrong" after this vod "Angon NEVER had the chance"
As for who had it worse my top 3 is Angron Kurze and hmm Mortarion. u guys?
I think angron would have been one of the most powerful loyalists, if the emperor wasn't a doofus. Instead of kidnapping angron, he should have teleported down, and slaughtered the slavers side by side with his son. Would angron still have been a rage monster? Sure, but he would have been a massively loyal one, and one that would have taken Horus' betrayal PERSONALLY. Angron would have remained a broken, borderline insane attack dog, but one guided by the emperor. Perturabo would be the only one besides Horus that could have taken him.
Nobody Important remember the Emps went full retard because Angron didn’t conquer his world. I don’t think he took into account what the Butcher Nails did, or that at least one Primarch would come to a world where he could be subdued by tech.
@@NueThunderKing Well, Big E fucked up big time here, of course. But if Angron was really meant to be the emperors compassion, or love for mankind, even Emps could be struck dumb by this turn of events. I think the Emperor was just insanely sad what they did to his son.
Adun1992 you could be sad and still help, I really really don’t know why the Emps had that tantrum or whatever it was and did what he did.
Don't forget he had the entire 12th legion!!! The warhounds would have gladly made planet fall and slaughtered those dogs of nuceria but no he held us back
Perturabo: The one that thought his maker did not trusted him enough to do important things, when in fact he was trusted with missions only him could do it.
Angron: The proactive protector of the weak that was turned into a raging berserker.
My Lord Wolf Rho, you are starting to make me think on heresy more and more.
I would think that a worse up bringing than the Lion's would be Mortarion's. Being brought up by a monster not even having human contact for much of his early life. Don't know that it is worse than Angron's though.
The worst thing about mortarion was having a close relationship with that monster.
It make Mortarion hate Psykers just as much as Black templar does
Konrad Curze had the worst I think
He keeps that fucker in a glass ball and talks to him still haha
Lion was alone for 10 years with choas beast. He is tarzan/lancelot.
Congrats on 60k sir!
Thanks!
Angron represented Emperors protective, fatherly side. He beat up the other gladiators but he would teach them to defend themselves better. He covers the boys body as he sleeps so he wouldent catch cold as he sleeps. And he did these while he had the nails in his brain. if he never recieved the nails, he would be the defender of innocents, and doom of anyone who dared threathen his sons and humanity. He would be a second father figure to the imperium.
People whom love the Khornate followers, should really check out the carnage of the newly released Dawn of Fire series.
The book really shows the bloodthirst of both cultists and chaotic astartes, the gore and eye focus from a human is absolutely amazing.
Khárn is a favorit for sure in my eyes, however every time i read about the World Eater warbands, how they do void-warfare and head on warfare showcase such brutal and straight in your face terror tactics. I wonder if i should start a Chaos tabletop army.
I highly recommend the novel, for new comers and veterans of the setting.
I recommend a small 500 point army when GW releases 9th edition rules for us.
It allows you to play around with em, without committing majorly
@@worldeater2414 Well if i was going to start something, without a doubt it will be 5xterms, 10xchaos-marines, 1-2x (mauler) walkers/robo and a lord Discordant and maybe 20x cultists as well.
@@worldeater2414 Oh and a Chaos Lord :O
I play a World Eater/Khorne Daemon army and they are great. From the outside they seem like a one trick pony, but its a simple brutally efficient strategy that needs a lot of depth to pull off. And there's nothing like charging into your opponent who thinks he's ready for you and underestimate you, but they really aren't ready. That expression of horror when you pull off a nice multi charge and their entire line breaks to some 100+ hits from a 10 man berserker squad, only to find out you can consolidate and fight again a third time is worth it every single time.
I have to say that the amount of violence and sheer panic a cavalcade of berserkers can bring has brought me more joy in the game than years of playing normal Space Marines and I'm really looking forward to the inevitable World Eaters codex.
@@Autechltd I can highly recommend you read Dawn of Fire then, it is sooo damn good in regards of Guy Haley's writing of both characters and the horrific terror of brutal 40k warfare.
I won't spoil anything, however the majority of it is in fact the begining of which we had through Dark Imperium and Plague Wars (The setup of the Crusade).
But man...
Are Chaos well written, both sides of the isle is troublesom to say the least.
It is so good to see some true carnage of a charging berserker in action, hell even the fear of astartes in void space boarding ships makes me want to get some World Eaters.
We could have had a second Vulcan.....the hugs.....but what would have happened to the war hounds? They were already known for being blood thirsty, controlled but still.
Chain Breakers or Hounds of Freedom nicknamed "Freedom Hounds" by thr Imperium.
We could have had a Athena like Primarch, but instead we got Ares. Their schtick would be unique in that, instead of what the War hounds became, they would have specialized over all legios in their ability to inspire true courage in mortals.
Angron wouldn't be the Red Angel, but the Angel of Compassion. And wherever they went, his legion and him would become the best legion for Human transhuman relations.
Alligators, wolves, big cats, all terrifying savage killers, but gentle and playful, and protective of their young, and their pack. Thus, the Hounds could be. Imagine a insurgency, a peasant-focussed Alpha Legion, that infiltrates, and provokes revolution amongst the traitors and the oppressed, leading the common folk in violent uprising into the Emperor's Light. Whereas the siege breakers hammer on the walls, the Hounds prowl in the city, gathering and focussing the resentment, grudges and fury of a people oppressed for decades.
Blood Angels were even worse than War Hounds - Look how Sanguinius guided them into an honorable legion
@@gregobrien3298 That is a lie, the worst legion is arguable but to say all legions pre primarch were better off than the Blood Angels is false.
@@worldeater2414 The forerunners of the Blood Angels, World Eaters and Space Wolves were all horrifically savage pre-Primarch. All three were at the risk of being censured by the Imperial Government. Indeed the progenitors of the Space Wolves had a special division to enforce discipline by execution of legionaries that got out of hand and went kill-crazy. Sanguinius brought culture, art and honour to the savagery of his legion. Russ brought honour, duty and absolute loyalty to their liege. Angron had been twisted by his upbringing and he brought more violence. Compassion can be a corrosive thing if you are constantly surrounded by suffering you cannot alleviate.
A Lion and Angron interaction would be very interesting...I feel the Lion would pity and be disgusted by Angron's weakness and selfish justification for the needless deaths. Angron on the other hand, would HATE the Lion because while Lion had it just as bad Angron, the Lion was by and large was able to overcome his childhood trauma. Much like the Night Haunter, Angron was never able to move beyond his past, and would be envious and spiteful of the Lions elevation because it would call into question Angron's justification for his terrible actions. Of course the Butcher Nails and Khornes' influence never gave Angron a chance, which is part of the tragedy of the character.
The Lion's trauma was ease by being in the company of men who treated him as a respected companion and for most part had a father figure.
If the emperor had just joined Angron to liberate his people along with his other sons and his Custodes, Angron could've been one of the most loyal primarchs. I never understood why this was so badly mishandled and seems really lazy.
Imagine it:
There Angron stood with his gladiator brothers. Surrounded and weary, ready to die to fight for their freedom. Angron knows this will likely be his end. He looks around at his gladiator brothers and feels sadness and anger mixed. He just wanted to be free. He just wanted peace.
He turned back to face his adversaries, ready to sound the charge. Ready to give his last for his people when suddenly a blinding purple light appears in the skies overhead.
The Bucephalus appeared out of Warp along with hundreds of other Imperial ships, all of them ready for a fight. Moments later, beams of light materialise next to and around Angron and his gladiators. Hundreds of warriors clad in gold. Thousands of them, taking up positions around the gladiators, also facing the slavers, ready for a fight.
Then right in front of Angron, another light appears. Then several more. The first light took form into a giant of a man clad in gold. His aura was that of pure power and leadership. It was The Emperor. It was his father. "You are not alone in this my son." The Emperor said gently. "You are ever alone." he added as the other lights manifested into the primarchs. His brothers.
Suddenly Angron felt a new feeling, a new emotion. Hope. Hope for the first time, a sense of relief for what the Emperor said was true. He was never alone.
Turning towards the Slavers, The Emperor unsheathed his flaming greatsword and sounded the charge. Angeron got more that just liberation. He got to fight alongside his very own father and his brothers.
If the story played out like that Angron would've been one of the greatest of the loyalists.
There was a story someone else can up with that I loved, roughly the same premise but slightly altered. Angron is ready to die with his fellow slaves, when streaks of light burst forth from above. Angrons legion, the War Hounds, deep strike into the slaver army. The battle is obscured by dust and ash but when the screams stop and the bolters are silent, the entire War Hound legion walks up to Angron and kneels in the dust & dirt. Angron and his slave brothers and sisters stare dumbfounded before the blood soaked legionnaires who proclaim their loyalty to their genefather and wait for this command and thus Angron takes the mantle of Primarch with a legion he trusts and his comrades alive.
Blue Night if only...
You dont understand the power of the butchers nails
Gaaay,
The pain of Angrons memories when he lands on his home world at the field of bones with Lorgar is brilliantly captured by Jonathan Keeble in the Audio book betrayer. There is Such emotion in this performance that I was moved to righteous tears
I knew there more to him than just the blood thirsty warrior and people look at me like im crazy for thinking it. You sir gain a follow for covering him. I'm looking forward to more
Just gonna go into a corner and dehydrate through my eyeballs I guess
So glad this exists to shed light on one of my favorite Primarchs. I think it's often forgotten that, believing Lorgar actually cares for him, Angron makes sacrifices to save his brother. He literally holds up a titan's foot to give Lorgar a chance to escape. The strength of this act is phenomenal, and he holds up the titan despite his body being crushed slowly, his ribs being cracked and compressed under the weight. This is an act of extreme physicality and compassion that one would think only Vulkan capable of, but it was Angron.
''The most stereotyped primarch'' Vulkan's jamaican laughter rises
Jesus I haven't yet teared up in a 30 or 40k story but damn... thank you brother Rho! EMPEROR PROTECTS.
Angron is such a tragic and sad figure. To me he represent the violence and despair inherent in the 40k universe. He could have been so much more.
Im amazed of how quickly your channel has grow, i still remember the day i found this channel with your "Vulkan meets the emperor" and so far i havent miss a single video of you, keep on please, you keep giving reasons to buy the novels
Pre deamonhood Angron is my favourite primarch, his backstory is glorious i guess i like it so much because I'm a fan of that gladiator, Spartacus vibe
Another note about the butcher's nails defining him is that, due to being a primarch, they had to half lobotomize him just to get the nails to fit.
The emperor, Creator of the primarchs and the astartes, Lived through different ages of human existence, Replicates eldar webway, powers the astronomicon that can be seen light years away, Strongest psyker, A divine being and Yet does not know how to remove the butchers nails or just put angron in a stasis until he figures it out...
With great respect to other channels who talk about 40K, you sir are the best. I can feel the story and understand the the worldview of the people. Thank you so much for all that you do.
Literally jumped out of my skin when I saw this. Rho put all the primarchs in a light as to make them newly understood and liked . bless you Rho for your continued talent and entertainment !
this really moved me, such a tragic story. Angrons life Story really is a good show of the grimdarkness of 40k
Finally it's the week I've been waiting for! I like how you threw in what "what if " scenarios! I think every Primarh was one second away from an altered life then what ended up with. Although, I surprised with the part of him helping everyone go to sleep. No surprised by his level of torment and how he expresses those feelings!
I've always said Angron without the nails could have been the best of them all, the Warhounds were all about brotherhood. it was taken away from him with the nails and the Emperor took him away from his family and let them die. no wonder he hated the Emperor.
If only the Emperor had ordered the War Hounds to reinforce Angron's army instead of abducting him...
he felt everyone's pain, and carried it with him. eventually that and the Nails did him in. as for what he was meant to be, I think first off, it appears that every Primarch was supposed to be mirrored by another (Iron Hands/Death Guard for resilience, Night Lords/Raven Guard for stealth). I think he would have been either Russ' Mirror, or Vulkan's.
What about Sanguinius mirror? They were both wanted by Khorne and both called red angels by the demons
@@codyyoutz I thought of that. but his empathy as exhibited by how he treated Jochura and his hesitance to let people suffer even when they're trying to kill him ref: the pyramid and the acid bath seems more Vulkan.
I have to admit I don't know much about him but the way you tell his origins is just heartbreaking. Oh, what could've been.
wow three minutes in and it's abundantly clear that it was the Eldar who made Angron who he is.
It seems to me, that the Eldar, while always trying to do the right thing with their farsight, they always seem to do much more harm.
I've seen most of your videos, Rho, but this is the first one to make me shed a tear. Take that as you will.
This video totally changed my view of Angron.
In an alternative universe, Angron is the Red Angel. Healer and deliverer for the downtrodden.
Even without the nails I can see why he would be mad. With him absorbing all of those people's horrible traumas I can see that actually boosting his rage once he gets the butchers nails.
An empath Angron...
Angron learning from Magnus without the Nails the 2nd or 3rd maybe 4th most powerful psyker in the Imperium.
"Which of his brothers could he foster a relationship with?"
My guesses will be Lorgar and Vulkan. Vulkan embodies the Emperor's compassion for humanity, and now we know that Angron was capable of empathizing with his fellow gladiators, even going to absorb their pains and take it within himself. It's too bad Vulkan and Angron never had any meaningful chances to interact with each other.
As for Lorgar, we have already seen him caring for Angron in his own twisted way (having fallen to Chaos and such), to the point of elevating him into a daemon prince just to ensure the Butcher's Nails does not kill him. I can see the same dynamic happening even if the two had not fallen sway to the ruinous powers, similar to the friendship between Magnus and Jaghatai Khan.
I knew his story was a tagic one and always felt empathy for him, but I had no idea about this and it adds a whole new level of sympathy . Logar as a healer in the Imperium would of been epic and I can only imagine the bond that would have grown between him and Vulkan
I think of him more often than not like an Angel of death, like he had a gift that literally allowed him to master any weapon he touches, as said in the novel. That along with his natural ability to feel and take away other people's pain make a good fit for one.
Love you Angron, one day you will get the respect you deserve!
What was true and noble in Angron died when the Emperor saved him from death by revolution. He knew apart of him, the best of him, had been mutilated. Angron wanted to die with his family attempting to exact vengeance on the rulers of that planet for he knew if he lived he’d only be a slave to the nails. The novel was so so tragic. Definitely a tale worthy of the 40k universe.
Saint Angron!! Tysm for all your hard and dedicated work Wolf.
This is one of the best, "what if" situations that's been presented in long time.
Another fantastic back story. Thanks for sharing
I always love hearing about the true stories of the Heretic Astartes primarchs. I don't get to hear them much as all I ever really get from playgroups is the stereotypes. But as a legion is founded with the geneseed of their primarch, the scene of Kharn approaching the Iron Warriors becomes even more powerful. "You shouldn't be here" As Kharn is probably quaking with the pain and blood of his brothers haunting him to the core. And the World Eaters as a legion, could have been one of the Imperium's greatest saviors, if the Emperor realized who his sons really were
Yay first Angron video!!!!
An interesting theory I’ve heard about pre-nails Angron’s purpose was to have an incredibly strong sense of family. Essentially have him act as the glue to keep all the primarchs together, or at least less likely to murder each other
omg im 2 sad ........
who has the sadder "childhood" Konrad or Angron ?
I think Angron .
GG for 60k
Very well done. I find myself watching videos on 40k lore I know much about. Just to see others perspective and you have earned a viewer sir.
This novel does explain why the normally caring Emperor was so disappointed with Angron. The Emperor wanted a healer, somebody who could draw the frustrations of his brothers out in the open where they could be dealt with, but instead He got a butcher.
well i reckon he could of done something about it but couldnt be bothered even though he claimed to Land he couldnt he could of took the time to research the nails more thoroughly and considering one of the 15th told Kharn i think it was that he could remove the nails i think lends credence that the emps lied to Land about not being able to remove the nails
@@Aristaios The nails *COULD* be removed from Astartes, but not from Angron, because Angron has had them for too long and his Primarch healing powers fused them into his brain, which was killing him slowly. The nails really couldn't be removed from Angron anymore without killing him. Which is the only reason Angron resorted to ascension to Daemonhood, since as an "immortal" being the nails couldn't kill him anymore. But most Astartes don't have that healing factor that strongly so their nails could be removed.
You sir are a legend
Agreed and he must become a imperial saint
Thanks!
@@wolflordrho you are to become a imperial saint by decree of the God emperor
@Legion of the damned good idea
Angron, the empath, the warrior.... I have a theory about the man he was supposed to be: the aspect of camaraderie, honour and respect between warriors, THE soldier, as an oplite, a man fighting with his peers, sharing the burden of the fatigue and the joy of battle, the pain of the wounds and the elation of victory.
Even if the Warhounds were a brutal legion, and more so as the World Eaters, they always had one characteristic, repeated in the novels by many characters, Angron and Kharn too, the concept of brotherhood: no matter where you come from (they recruited from any and all worlds, without a single gene stock), no matter your nature, or your hates and fears, you were a member of something larger, something that stood even after the curse of the Nails, even in the first days of their fall to Khorne. The fight in the fighting pits, the rituals, the tactics.
Angron, the Warrior King.
What do you think?
I can see a combination of vulkan, sanguinis, and russ
I'm one hundred percent with you boy
Finally! I felt like a strung out drug addict whose dealer got locked up last week! Emperor be praised the Wolf Lord has returned 🙏🙏🙏
Fuck, I'm glad to find out I'm not the only one lol Really does make u addicted to this universe. Best 40k channel out there
Great start to a new character to analyze.
Major twists to Wolf Lord Rho, great video. I was also really surprised by Angrons story. The High Riders are right gits..
Ooooh nice, just the title is giving me the giddies.
I've been curious about angron's story for a while now.
I’d argue that the most overlooked primarch is clearly Corvus Corax....
Get it? 😅
Oh you....
Is this a shadow walk reference? 😆
This was amazing u caught who he was and was meant to be and his saddening fall
might be worth making a super cut or a playlist for these, rlly good vid
I listened to the audiobook of Slave of Nuceria. God it was so good.
Angron is a great character
Twist. Daemon Angron has removed the Butcher's Nails. Over the Millennia the compassion is slowly reemerging despite daemonhood.
Wait really ?
What are you serious about this
@@brandonhughes4571 it would be cool. Imagine if he's slaughtering out of compassion. Ending suffering. One possibility.
Or he'll start getting his humanity back. Nothing says it's a one way trip, especially for a Primarch who was originally made from the stuff of the warp.
@@darkelite1829 lol. Nothing Cannon or even hinted at. Angron is mindless rage and bloodlust incarnate. I was just imagining some complexity and an unexpected twist.
@@nickd5158 well maybe he and his legion might be able to return to the emperor's side
Wow, heavy stuff. Absolutely incredible!
Yes!!! Finally Angron week!!!
I think that, if it weren't for the Butcher's Nails, that Angron might've actually been able to really connect with Vulkan of all primarchs.
It's pretty clear that they were both compassionate and caring individuals.
I just wish that the other primarchs could've learned about just how bad Angron had it, then some of them might've sympathized with their brother more.
9:43 animals kill for survival what Angron went through was sadistic and evil . It would make anyone loose faith in humanity.
You're gonna have to get all these in playlists soon.
One of my favorite Primarch
Thinking about what Angron and his legion could have been inspired my all time fave 40k project. Of all the Primarchs, he was the one truly robbed of his future.
Thank you for doing Angron sir. You are doing the real stuff here. There is so much to learn from Angron’s story.
Congrats on 60k as well. Your commentary continues to be on point. Well met.
Thanks!
also be sure to read the "betrayer blood for the blood god" book were it shows angron returning to the world during the heresy and visiting his "brothers and sisters" grave for as aggro as angron is i really do think he loves HARDER than any other primarch except maybe sanguinius
Congrats on 60k Rho. Well deserved
If the Emperor wants to keep chaos in check forever (once he fights the final battle and wins) he most give each chaos realm to his fallen primarchs: realm of tzeentch to magnus, realm of slaanesh to fulgrim, realm of nurgle to mortarion and realm of khorne to angron.
(And perhaps even the final and secret 5th chaos god malice to conrad kurze).
This was amazing . Thanks brother ⚔️
He could have been made to be one of the most compassionate generals / leaders of all of them.
Only sadly to become a product of an evil world comprised of monsters...
That's pretty awesome, Oenomaus was another gladiator who escaped with Spartacus and Crixus. So was therefore involved in the third servile War. I love the real world history and theology blended in everywhere...
Which adds a different dynamic if you think about it because they never found spartacus' body... They did, however, find the bodies of Oenomaus and Crixus... so that to me it's like him kind of disappearing while the people on Nuceria, his friends, died...
This is the part I find implausible. How did slavers subdue a Primarch with drugs?
I am surprised, i always thought angron was nothing but RAGE. i definitely need to get my hands on thes books now
Favorite primarch by far. The legendary quote rocked my world when i first read it. Especially since prior to the Betrayer book, i always tought he was the dullest simplest stereotipycal cliché of 40k. How wrong i was...
I had a feeling there was more than just a battel hungry monster. Something deeper
That’s an amazing illustration
This reminds of The Dark Knight, starring Christian Bale; the conversation he's having with Gordon as I recall:
"It was you, it was supposed to be you. You were the best of us"
The potential future the Emperor believed he had been preparing for would have needed leaders better than he. With more heart than Vulcan, as much honor as Guilliman, and I'd think he'd need a degree of compassion unlike the others. The Warp or Tzeench or whatever, would have wanted not only to divide and conquer, but to break the best of them through malicious machinations.
Always pumped to see another installment from the Wolf Lord!!!!!