THE NIGHT OF THE WOLF! ANGRON V RUSS!
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Hi all Wolf Lord Rho here!
Angron week continues! As we discuss the Night of the Wolf, and the lesson Leman Russ attempted to teach his brother Angron...
Spoiler Warning to begin, the events we are discussing today are from the Horus Heresy novel "Betrayer" by Aaron Dembski-Bowden. As always I really recommend you read the novel for yourself first. As that's the best way to enjoy the lore, for yourself. Not only that, we help to support the great Games Workshop and Black Library. Because without them we don't have this amazing lore to talk about. Link: www.blacklibra...
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TBH in my book Angrons secret talent hasn't got anything to do with fighting. He got THE best speeches and best quotes are from him or Kharn which says alot about his geneseeds true purpose.
The man with the most gift vouchers in the world
What is a gift voucher?
More gift vouchers then Krieg has casualties.
@@mcchicken1849 but not as many as kreig's kills...
“I don’t always by games workshop gift vouchers, but when I.... just kidding, I never buy them...”
What are these vouchers for? E books?
You know Alpha Legion fires the first shot! Hydra Dominus!
Hydra Dominatus brother.
Hydra Dominus
Heil Hydra
Hail Hydra!
@@MrHelix7293 "Heil"? It's not the fucking SS.
Angron essentially admits that he values the nails in his current position because they come close to allowing him to forget that he has become exactly the kind of slaving oppressor that he hates. "Without them, I might be a more moral man [and then I'd be unable to turn a blind eye to the evil we are doing in the Great Crusade, and then I'd REALLY be a traitor]."
Angron continues to be the most depthfully written and tragic primarch in all of 40k.
When the villian starts making some good arguments...
Call the a heretic, and kill them immediately.
Not really... for Chaos to be destroyed all of humanity need to be on this.
Yeah Russ'es arguments were quite good
@@nebojsazakic not really
I love how every Primarch, how savage or degenerated they might be, can really convince you that their way of thinking is right. Even Angron with his Butchers Nails can still speak some words of wisdom.
Yeah, I was really taken aback by how salient Angron's points were.
There’s a difference between speaking wisely and speaking wisdom.
Angron is a beast, but also an intelligent one
The bit where he's like "if I wasn't driven mad by bloodlust my sense of justice might drive me to behead the murderous bastard" I thought, YES DO IT, KILL THE SCUM BAG!
That's the thing in 40k no ones ever wrong or right
That speech of Angrons is soooo good! It fits the Emperor and his Imperium uncomfortably well!
I enjoyed it too. Angron was crazy, even stupid at times. But he could see the cold, hard reality. The "Grand Dream" of the Imperium, was pretty much that same as every empire before it.
@@randomcenturion7264 Angron was short on formal education, but he knows what it was like to grow up in chains, that gives one a unique perspective on things.
Love how he states if he didn't have the nails he would have killed the emperor anyway for being a slaver
@@bladestormviking you speak the true true
@@andymatheson82 he would have been struck down without effort from the Emperor. Sanguinius, Magnus and others could beat him also.
For all of the flaws and obvious errors Angron makes, his speech pre fight is just straight knowledge. It makes me wonder if Angron would have been loyal without the nails. Seriously one of my favourite moments in 30k/40k.
That's actually a fantastic point. It also answers the question of The Emperor did what he did to Angron. Without the nails, he would have turned traitor anyway. But with the nails, he is an obedient tool for a while, and is easier to kill due to his recklessness.
I think that without the nails, the Emperor would've taken his time to explain his vision of humanity to Angron and that he is not just another slaver.
Doesn't change the fact that he continues to murder his own sons...Doesn't change the fact that his mind is broken....Mad dogs should always be put down...
He probably would have still hated the emperor but would have saw chaos for what it is . Slavery
@@Matihood1
That's a good point.
Because while the Emperor isn't some piece loving hippy or anything, he's far from being truly evil with his plans for humanity.
You missed the part I love the most in this book. When Russ talks to Lhorke, he addresses Lhorke as legion commander and talks to Lhorke as if Lhorke is the legion commander and doesn't even address Angron until Lhorke insist he is no longer legion commander and that he should be talking to Angron.
I also love how Angron tells Russ that time and time again he has had to slaughter worlds that only wanted to be left alone but he does it anyway because The Emperor told him to.
Also Llhorke and the remaining world eaters without the nails are desperately trying to penetrate the encirclement and save Angron, but they're not enough and the Wolves keep them at bay until it's over.
Deathskull0001 they love to leave that part out smh world eaters love their daddy😤😂👌
@@Deathskull0001 Exactly!
@Colin Killian lol I remember being caffinated as shit when I wrote this.
I love Jaghatai's quote about Angron, about walking in his footsteps before judging Angron. I wonder what would have happened if Jaghatai had spoken to Angron instead.
Where does the khan say that? I find very little interactions on primarchs between angron. I would love to know more about it
@@timvanroey6641 I think it's from the forge world Horus heresy book 1
Good steppe brother
❤❤
The Lion wouldve started fighting Angron probably after the first response lol
I agree, from orbit.
The Lion would have been a great fight but in no way does he beat Angron in a 1v1
@@whitefam420 yeah not even close
Lion would have punched Angron even if Angron said “I don’t want to fight you, this is stupid.”
about that now....
It's always funny when lorgar is the voice of reason... and when Angron even for a few sentences speaks with a logical thought, regardless of whether it's right or wrong
"And yet, here I am."
BatRuss.
Man, I get a feeling they would've been pretty close brothers if Angron didn't get the nails...
Well, I would say depends on when Angron's path would diverge from the current lore. As the first clip in the Angron week reminded, he was actually kinda caring, emotionally connecting person, not necessarily hotheaded and short-tempered. For me, Angron who wouldnt end up on Nuceria at all, would be a BFF with Vulkan. Angron who has endured Nuceria but w/o the nails - yeah, you might be right, although he could also change into a broody-moody guy, and stick with Corax and Batm...err... Konrad
@@Johann_Gambolputty_of_Ulm These excerpts actually have me convinced that Angron would have been unable to do his duties without the nails, and that he would have gone renegade.
I think he would've been good friends with Vulkan
@@laserbeampussydestroyer6279 the 12th legion Imperial Warhounds were purpose-built to be the "we shall headbutt this mountain until it falls" legion. they chop beef until there is no more beef to be chopped. period.
a Nails-less Angron, even if he were snatched away and still had the trauma of "..and i don't even know how they died!!", would have become an anti-slavery crusader and turned that legion into THE close quarters melee force of the imperium.
Warhound blademasters would have been exported to other legions just to teach the rest of the Astartes how to CQB on their level. (keep in mind- nassir amit, argel tal, sigismund, even lucius were all known to spend an inordinate amount of time in the 12th legion fighting pits, now add a SANE Angron to that mix)
O
I was thinking same cause of the way he legion was before they implanted nails. Hell the emperor screwed him over when he took him, if he helped with the uprising I think Angron would have gotten nails out and been a beast for him.
I loved this scene, made me really like Russ and it shows he is certainly not a mindless brute.
Russ is a LOT smarter than Magnus gave him credit for. What's even cooler is, Russ knows people think he's a dumb savage and uses that so they underestimate him.
Well of course he's not, he is a Primarch after all.
Russ isn't "smart", he's CAGEY. his instincts are very sharp and he can read situations well.... that is, unless his dander is up and he's spoiling for a fight already.
Wolves are also cunning as well as vicious.
@@bladestormviking He's got a predators "cunning" that tempers his ferocity.
He's also *usually* a pragmatist. That definitely helps.
+Wolf Lord Rho
@Wolf Lord Rho
15:00
I don't think Angron missed Russ's point, I think he simply doesn't care and is pretending not to understand. Angron literally said to the Emperor's face that he would be a "shadow" of the Primarch that the Emperor would have wanted. Angron, quite blatantly, doesn't care about being an effective leader, nor a good father, to his legion. He literally says that he died on Nuceria, as far as he's concerned, and he only continues to fight and be "loyal" because combat is the only way he's able to feel any peace.
Angron spends the lives of his legion needlessly, and puts them through the meatgrinder, to *_spite_* the Emperor, plain and simple. He wants to drive the point home that the Emperor cannot have it both ways- that he cannot have a family of sons and a collection of generals at the same time. That he cannot be brutal conqueror and a beneficent liberator at the same time. Angron is, initially, simply out to be as big a thorn in the Emperor's side as he can be, and essentially making his own legion into a giant gaggle of "problem-children" was the best way to go about it.
The only reason he didn't outright rebel to begin with is because, A) his legion wouldn't have stood for it, and B) he would have simply been annihilated by his brothers. But Angron doesn't want to throw his life away- he wants to stand as a testament to how evil and tyrannical the Emperor is. If he simply died or got himself killed, he would be just a memory. But by making his legion into the berserking lunatics they'd become, while still remaining "loyal", he could forever stand as a monument to the Emperor's sins.
Russ's point wasn't unintelligent, but it was entirely the wrong one to make, against Angron. Angron can see, perfectly fine- he just dismisses it as a sign that he's accomplishing exactly what he set out to do. The Night of the Wolf only came as a confirmation of his actions, given that all Angron cared to do was make himself a nuisance.
Even in spite of all of it, though, Russ *_would_* have died, were it not for Angron backing down- regardless of Angron being killed, in the process.
When he joined Horus's rebellion, he was essentially given an "out"- given an excuse to finally be able to let himself go and throw his life away whenever he wants. By being part of the Horus Heresy, he could rest assured that no one would forget about it, and that it could never be ignored. That the Emperor could never again claim to be the good guy.
Well said
@@whitefam420
thank and welc
I’ve been saying this for so long man idk how people are blind to it. They always talk about how Russ is so much better but how? He wasted legion lives teaching a lesson to someone who simply does not care. Doesn’t seem very smart to me.
You've really shown Angron in a new, intriguing light, Rho. He's much more complex and thoughtful, than he's given credit for. I imagine him, without the Butchers Nails, to be one of the best Primarchs of them all. Him and Konrad are fast becoming my favourites, definitely when it comes to the traitors.
If the emperor can see the future, then perhaps his relationship with Angron is as bad as it is because he knew he would fall, so why waste the effort.
Alternatively, if he only knew that some would fall, then maybe saving Angron's life was more about keeping a pawn on the board for the chaos gods to take later. A piece he could sacrifice to protect the more important sons.
A Big mistake if true
Honestly I think that's very possibly the case. But then why did he love Horus so much and give him all the nice things if he knew he would fall. Either he can see the future or he can't. But I do need a better reason for why he sucks so much at interacting with half of them if not more and him pushing them away makes sense outside of the sons he DID like going traitor. Who knows its Big Emps we probably literally can't even guess what his game plan is his brain is so big. Maybe getting on life support is part of his grand scheme
Looking back on it, Angron's speech was through the haze of the nails. I get the feeling Angron wouldn't have been very loyal to the Emperor. Might have been Angron to tern the primarchs against big E.
That really depends on a looot of circumstances. I, for one, believe the Emperor would've taken his time to explain his vision to Angron and convince him he's (often forcibly) unifying humanity for a reason. Think about it. If it wasn't for the Big E, I doubt mankind would've found strength to resist, for example, the big Ork Waaaghs of the 30k that would've engulfed the galaxy if given enough time.
@@Matihood1 People forget what the Emperor actually wants to achieve, to destroy Chaos, and he can't do that without the whole of the human race adopting the Imperial truth.
Angron wouldve turned renegade and be erased like the two "Lost" Primarchs
@@Shadowhunterbg yeah go ask Necoho, chaos god of anti-theism and atheism how that whole imperial truth worked out why don't you? The imperial truth was amoral and ineffective and the imperium ultimately made chaos thousands of times stronger. Before the great crusade even cultures directly tied to the chaos gods didn't actually have that destructive effect and most civilisations were untouched by it, now, chaos is everywhere, he was wrong on every level and in every way.
@@Matihood1 nah, I suspect one or more of the other civilisations the imperium ground to dust might have stopped them, especially given their openness to diplomacy with groups like the Eldar and the like, that said the imperiums armies were instrumental in stopping several WAAAAAAGH's though they didn't actually need to build a galaxy spanning empire and unite humanity to do that.
Poor Angron man. He could've been so great. I give props to Russ for trying to save his brother.
Betrayer does not show Angron as a mindless brute, it tells you much abou his complex character.
It takes a good writer to give Angron a point.
If Angron would have subsequently altered his position regarding the fight and its outcome (i.e. 'learned Russ' lesson), I think an argument could be made for saying Russ is categorially the victor; however (as far as I understand/know) he didn't/hasn't.
According to Russ' aim/intent, Russ failed to teach his brother a lesson. According to Angron's perspective Angron won the fight against his brother.
There is no clear victor here objectively speaking. Subjectively, it seems Angron has greater claim to victory than Russ does.
Also I think a the "Lorgar = objectivity" argument concerning the above is far less sound than the "Lorgar = sh*t-stirring chagrin-stricken choirboi" argument.
Angron is fighting to win, russ fort to teach, just because he never learned the lesson angron loses twice cause the lesson was taught but not learned, Russ position Angron exactly where he wanted him and his legion, lesson done.
@@ardarricvannes5347 hey dude, thanks for the response :-) May I ask do you think a lesson can be successful if the pupil doesn't learn it? You say "Angron is fighting to win, Russ fort to teach," but he doesn't teach (not Angron anyway); as in, he doesn't "impart understanding" or "convey information" etc.
Russ doesn't achieve his aim (to teach), Angron does (wins the fight). I agree that in retrospect (if that's the right word for events in an imagined far-future :-P ) it seems that Angron is a loser, but he isn't according to his own aim. Russ is.
@@notyetactive I agree the lesson wasn't learnt but it was taught, lorgor explains it from the vision but the problem was the nails they had already done there damage, Russ accomplished what he set out to do once it went sour, Angron would think he won the battle even if he lost all his warriors but go onto to lose the war, Russ on the other hand see's the bigger picture and was trying to show it. Good story tho
@@ardarricvannes5347 Yeah, I think I know what you're getting at; the ability not to have taught anything but still able to 'teach' regardless -- I suppose that rests on an objectivity or objective something/measure, which I suppose Lorgar provides. It's an interesting philosophical question though, and one that pervades in 40k; at this stage (after the nails and after meeting Emps) Angron has almost lost all agency, like a plant or a fungus reacts to chemical stimuli he reacts to all things in much the same way: to prevent the pain of the nails ( i.e. ragetrain). Russ, unlike him, is able to do things that are complicated and nuanced, he can even go against some of his strongest principles/desires like not losing face (as he did here) to prove or realise a more long-term and objective goal (helping his brother). I think a similar dichotomy is seen in 40K in the zealots who kill in the Emperor's name (much like those who kill in Khorne's/Nurgle's name) merely *because* as compared with the *extremely* complicated aims and actions of the Emperor or Tzeench, which might seem to pertain towards one thing but are actually trying to bring about a different or opposite effect.
In this instance Russ is trying to teach a pupil that has the intellectual nuance of a pot plant; which begs the question -- who is more of an idiot, the teacher trying to educate the pot plant or the pot plant itself?
Russ is the hungry farmer keeping his seeds for another year (knowing the wisdom at what he's chosen to do). Angron has eaten all of his seeds, but he still sits there with a full belly as far as he is concerned (and you can't really tell him otherwise). Ultimately its a pretty lose-lose situation when the (hitherto) 40k setting is considered.
I kind of get the feeling that if not for the Butcher's Nails, The World Eaters and the Space Wolves would have been great allies with one another
Disciplined Killing Machines able to turn into unrelenting berserkers against the enemies of humanity
Definitely would have given the orks a run for their money
The Dusk Raiders weren't really a Berserker lot until becoming World Eaters then the nails..
@@andy7666 You're confusing legions. The Dusk Raiders became the Death Guard. The World Eaters were knows as the Warhounds before Angron.
@@Matihood1 yeah if not for nails they might have stayed The War Hounds
@@andy7666 Dusk Raiders?
Where do they come in to this lol
@@-Gilver Is it War Hounds or Warhounds? You can never be too sure with spellings in 40k.
Reading the comments. People believe that from what we are shown about Angron being a berserker NOW but in is origin story he is a HEALER. Not a berserker. Thats the nails at work.
Totally agree dude.
Angron should've been so much more than he was.
Chubbyninja89 Irish Ninja and being one of the worst written findings of the emperor. Makes you really wonder if he was a healer how would that of worked. Place him next to Russ not as Co-spearhead but taking his 6 and constantly healing him. Have him next to Russ during the fight with HORUS oh MAN. such a waste
@@judgemanny9316
Yeah.
I mean, the stuff about Angron was fairly good and well written, but then they decided to be morons and write the Emperor as just a asshole who took what he wanted.
@Anzu Wyliei
I don't know about that.
I mean, with how smart the Emperor's supposed to be, I don't wouldn't have realistically done what he did to Angron.
Russ is big hearted. I think he,Sanguinius or Vulkan would've done the same. But in my opinion, this was a task for the 1st Legion.
If the Lion had been there I believe he would have calmly ascertained the situation. From orbit. After talking to Angron he would have issued an order to the World Eaters. If you stand down I will grant mercy. This planet and its people are under my protection. Resist and be destroyed. My authority is absolute etc.
Angron would then roar defiance and give another slave/morality speech. The moment he made a threat regarding the Emperor's head the Lion would have immediately commenced a sustained orbital bombardment,he would risk none of his 'little brothers' over Angron's madness. The World Eaters that surrendered would be spared and retasked,possibly becoming some obscure successor chapter.
If El Jonson opened up on Caliban immediately in fury of any taint within the 1st what of Angrons Legion? He prefers to be chivalrous yet he's one of the more ruthless of the thinking primarchs.
It would be an incredible duel between such warriors but I don't think the Lion would even waste his time,men or energy trying to teach basic tactical acumen on a mad dog.
5:35 the problem here is the Angron is perfectly rational and fully right in what he says: he does not pretend to cloth the naked truth behind fancy idealism to justify the massacres.
He's fighting for a Tyrant and is enslaving worlds to his chain as Russ does and he despise what he has become.
It is all that is left to him and it is all that the butchers nail allow him to do.
Russ on the other hands is the one butchering Prospero, with all its civilized and peaceful population, because "ordered" (and taking a certain deal of satisfaction in the act). Gulliman razed Monarchia because "ordered", killing innocent people and destroying their world to "teach a lesson" to one man.
We see Magnus trying to minimize the damage in action when dealing with battles against enemies he think he can reason with, while we see Vulcan the Carebear burning alive an Eldar child begging for mercy because she's a Xeno (even if the thing was unsettling for him).
I wonder if what The Lion told: "loyalty is's own reward", is such a "awesome" thing to say when you think what this "loyalty" has brought to the galaxy. Not different to when a war criminal, who did despicable acts in a war, justify his doings by claiming he just followed orders.
Angron here is crystal honest to Russ and himself acknowledging what they all have become, once you look behind the "dream".
Angron speaks a lot of sense. The Emperor really showed how human/falliable he was when dealing with Angron. Would be great to see why the Emperor seemingly made a number of dumb choices with Angron. The War Hounds could have been the 'superhero' legion. The one that takes the pain and suffering of others and rescues them like the shiny white of their armour. Khorne has been laughing his way to the bank all this time. Angron's loyalty and bond to his brothers and sisters could be unparallelled.
Neoth is a FAILURE, the only thing that kept him LEGENDARY is GW’s
decision! He is nothing but a failure!
Everyone can dislike or disrespect Russ for being a loyal dog of war, however he is the only Primarch out there whom have faced his inner demons and come out on the other side stronger.
Russ might have his "savage nature", however he is first and foremost among the dauntless few for a reason. He's a extremely strong character and has a mighty sense of honour.
Russ is a Warrior at heart, however he is one of the most loyal of all of the Primarchs.
He knows himself and have accepted his role through honourbound duty, not because he is naive no, but out of compassion and kinship towards his father and brothers.
A true wolf at heart.
It is right, but - we cannot forget about Sanguinius with his and his son's Red Thirst, Jaghatai - who untill the end was struggling with loyalty. Technically a lot got this inner fight, but not all gone victors from it.
@@ЕвгенийАрхипов-х8я The Khan never struggled with loyality though, that's a fact.
He have always been a kindred spirit of freedom, he never took sides unless it was what he deem as honourable or factual right. He always sought out the truth, no matter what.
Out of all the Primarchs suffering from a beast within, Russ and his Space Wolves stands out the most, their mutations are second to none but the Salamanders.
Their flaws are beyond compare.
The Wolves inner demon showcases itself deeper than the Blood Angels ever have been, it was only because Sanguinius death that his son felt the impact the most and indeed felt the power of bloodthirty berserkers through a psychic backlash.
The Red thirst is a "blood hungry" curse, however as with all mutations giving beyond a doubt it was meant to be a flaw.
The Red thirst isn't really that crazy though, compared to a rabbid wolf curse that turn one into a fleshhungry werewolf.
The Red Thirst is more or less like the butchers nails, although with the Thirst, they go back shit insane over but a small drop of blood rather than something mechanical pushing you into one.
@@GruwskiTheDogski The Lion grew up on a planet the bled chaos energies like a open wound.
The entire forest, and beasts are chaos tainted spoke to Lion and he ignored it.
I don't necessarily like Lion, but his words to Curze are apt. "I don't care now who knows the truth now, in a hundred or ten thousand years. Loyalty is it's own" reward.
@@GruwskiTheDogski no doubt, but I mostly replied to "the only one" about facing the inner demons.
But all things considered - I agree with you.
@@worldeater2414 Yet the Lion questions everything not of his own making, he is by far the most arrogant and secretive of all.
The Lion is noble at heart, through a knightly code, however he is by far through his own character and his sons the one to judge anyone nowadays.
Quick note on the whole Warp, Fenris is closer to the Eye of Terror than any other Legion and the planet itself is a deathworld.
While also having the Watchers in the Dark Guide the Lion, I for one would had loved to know more about them. The Lion is followed by their watch, there's a major reason why he is guarded and hidden from sight.
I'm actually in the middle of reading this book and read this scene yesterday and this is quickly becoming one of my favourite books in the Horus Heresy series.
This scene really made me change my opinion about Angron because I can't help but agree with what hes saying. The Emperor doesn't give worlds a choice it's either destruction or compliance. Angron is just taking this idea to the extreme to show it what it really is. The Emperor handled Angrons introduction to the Emperium so terribly and can only blame himself for what later became Angron. Sure the butchers nails did their work but the books that dive deeper into Angrons psyche show that even after Istvaan Angron was still capable of reason at times.
Still need to complete the book but can't recommend it enough.
I usually get the feeling that quite a bit of readers won't usually attempt to grasp this perspective in the grand continuum of the story of the Heresy. You can condemn the actions of the Warmaster's rebellion and its disloyal legions while still being extremely skeptical of the veracity of the Imperium's mission/purpose.
Wonder the type of convo there would be if it was with the Night Haunter instead of Russ. 🤔
OooooooooooooooooooOoOOoooh thats'a spicy meatball.
Angron: Did HE send you?
Kurze: This world hasn't been cleansed, it's been butchered!! But did you torture them first??!! The voices, the voices!!. Aiieee!!
Angorn: 😕
@@tobsw3802 Actually Curze thought Angron lacked finesse. Because where Angron butchered whole worlds (like intended), Curze at first tried to save lives by simply massacring the few to save the many.
Angron thought Curze a coward for skulking in the shadows, for not fighting face to face. Like one does on the hot sands.
Suprising it was a matter of methods of actual results, instead of the results themselves. To Curze, Angron was a barbarian and a butcher, to Angron, Curze as a sadistic murderer who would die in a fair fight.
Assuming they actually talked, Curze and Angron would probably agree on alot of things, the fight MIGHT have happened. But even with all of that, assuming they had a verbal spat like Russ and Angron, Angron's barb about "What you have commited here is a FAIR FIGHT *Brother* " wouldn't have changed.
Curze would have been, even funnily, a better match for Angron then Russ. The difference in the fighting styles would have seen Angron pressed instead of Angron tossing Russ around like a 50's housewife who burnt dinner.
Curz: did they have it coming?
Angron: rawr XD
@@worldeater2414it would have been a lot more tense for sure. A lot of mock platitudes and backhanded compliments being thrown around.
Curze would probably approve of the name change. "World Eaters" what an excellent name for inspiring fear. But all this unnecessary killing? So much dead meat. So wasteful. So inefficient. Sloppy. Amateurish. What use is a terrifying name if no one is left alive to fear it?
Curze would probably spit back that he doesn't care about inspiring fear. He isn't a coward like Curze. He doesn't creep in the shadows and torture women and babes in their cribs. He is a warrior. He strides the field of battle and faces his enemy with honor and pride. Something slinking cur like Curze could never understand.
Angrons expression flickering between a derisive smirk and a disgusted sneer as he jumps from one turbulent emotion to another while Curze just stares him down with that Rictus grin as the two circle each other. Trading ever sharper barbs until someone (Angron) finally snaps and they clash. Lightning claws vs Chain Axe.
Curze would probably win the duel. Fighting unfairly. Taunting Angron and taking advantage of his poor emotional control. Driving him into frenzy. Making him get more and more sloppy as his anger grows.
But the Nightlords would probably lose the overall battle with the World Eaters. They don't do well in straight up fair fights while the World Eaters revel in them.
Curze might defeat Angron. Maybe even kill him if the blood lust takes him. But he might end up being swarmed and himself killed by the infuriated World Eaters when they become frenzied at their primarch's death.
Angron is a slave to the Butcher's Nails and he always will be. Even though he doesn't realize that he's a slave to it, he's driven by it, molded by it, and is dying to it as it takes away his mind, the thing that I consider to be the most important thing about him, as it is his mind that we see what he truly is. He's always felt that he was a slave, a slave on Nuceria as a gladiator, a warslave to the Emperor and his Imperium as a Primarch, and yet he doesn't realize that he's a slave to the Butcher's Nails. He's been a ghost and a slave ever since it was implanted into him, it ruins him.
I think he realized and wanted to die on Neuceria as the only way to be free from it.
In the end he became a slave for all eternity.
Russ is the second oldest brother and I believe that he truly cared for all his brothers but suffered because his brothers saw him as the potential end to their legion and there lives mixed with the fact that he was literally raised by wolves making him suffer in social interactions. We can see this in him trying to teach Angron, begging Magnus to surrender and return to Terra with him and finally when he could of killed Horus in their fight but chose to try and save his big brother, the person I think he loved and respected only second to the Emperor and Malcador.
I hadn't thought of it quite like that.
But it is pretty interesting to think of Russ, the Wolf King, as a caring big brother, who ultimately only wanted to help and look out for his brothers.
@@chubbyninja89 the struggles of having a fucked up family all with different backgrounds and a father who had kids 10,000 years too early.
@@FoxHound-ut1hu
Yeah.
A caring big brother who is all too happy to kill his brothers if his daddy says so? 🤔
I don't buy it.
@@henryviiifake8244 he's not happy to do it but it is literally what he was made for, his duty, his responsibility.
Angron: Our k/d was higher
Logar:You lost the match tho
Russ:GG
rematch 1v1
By what standard has russ won? He went there to teach the world eaters a lesson and lost legionaries for a point he couldn't get across. Angron got to beat people up and he didn't run away, sounds like there is a clear winner here.
@@iamalpharius6288 It's a matter of what Russ *could* have done, had mercy not stayed his hand. That's why from some perspectives he "won" even though that was not his objective and he actually lost, but Angron lost too because he didn't see the point that he was objectively wrong, or if not that, objectively damaged in his perceptions of things.
@@Gnostic88 The fight was decided before it started. Russ picked a fight he could never win. If he had killed Angron he would be giving him the "freedom" he was seeking ever since Nuceria. If he didn't kill Angron he would be forced to retreat or risk losing his legion. Russ doesn't fundamentally understand Angron and I wouldn't be surprised if Angron thinks that the other primarchs are a mockery of his former family. Angron was probably aware of what Russ is talking about, but simply doesn't care which is why he is so adamant that Russ lost. Angron sees Russ's lesson as a bluff that he called and sent the proud wolf back with his tail between his legs.
@@Auron327 I don't think Angron was capable of thinking that deeply or that self aware. at the end of the day the only person who considered it a victory was Angron. Even Lorgar was embarassed for him.
Angron didn't even conquer his homeworld he never respected pragmatism or practical solutions, much less would take the time to realize that he won on some philosophical/abstract level. Abstractions dont matter to Angron, ideals don't matter to him, and principles don't matter to him. I can't see him ever adopting a perspective where he "won" a fight based on nothing but cost vs gain, when that was Russes entire point and he couldn't even understand that much.
So if he knew what Russ meant but just didn't care, and didn't think it mattered; by that reasoning claiming a moral victory wouldn't make sense since moral or ideological victories wouldn't matter to Angron at this point. Angron even all but admits that before the fight...
At the end of the day Angron probably just thought he won, because Russ left lol.
I get that Angron is deeper than most people give him credit for, but I think implying he was thinking that deeply and so big brain his other bros just didn't get it, is a bit much. Your basically saying Angron the half mad butchers reasoning was too deep for Lorgar the scholar/theologian/philosopher to understand when Lorgar was literally in his mind.
He also didn't learn anything. At least Russ did.
Not going to lie, Angron is kind of right.
Angron just being a total badass not taking any shit from ideologs and feeding the wolf pup some hard truth for a change. Thank you as always Rho, made my day :)
Exactly. To be able to say that he would personally take the head of the Emperor takes some massive balls. On the other hand,Russ felt offended by this because he loves being the bitch of the Emperor.
At least Angron had an excuse for his fury (butcher's nails). Russ is way overrated and he's responsible for turning the third most powerful psycher into a Demon (Magnus). Russ is the beast that decided to butchered the people of Prospero without even questioning Horus orders. It is Russ who's the real beast.
@@drummerdanny1269 FINALLY Someone to say it. This 2020 fetish for Vikings is really ruining people's perceptions. Angron is a better Primarch than Russ will ever be, he had the spirit to die in battle not for some "grand cause" not for his fathers "orders" not to protect an Imperium, he would lay his life down with his brothers, not for glory not for remembrance but for honor and the Emperor took it away from him and made him watch his brothers die. While allowing the Lion to bring Luther, Lorgar to bring his foster father etc. The Butchers nails ruined him, but the Emperor didn't have to make it worse because ego.
@@erikwolf3479 Yes,if the Emperor would have helped him. I'm sure his relationship would be great. I can the Emperor treating him as similar as Vulkan. Angron would have definitely stayed loyal.
People like Russ because of how he looks and the viking theme (that you mentioned). Russ is way too arrogant. He thought he could take Vulkan.
Vulkan is my favorite primarch and if he wanted to fight Russ seriously,he would have definitely butchered him. I threw that last line in honor of Angron🤣
@@drummerdanny1269 Agreed, as well you should, Russ is overrated.
@@drummerdanny1269 Well, every Primarch has some aspects of his personality hardwired into him. During the Heresy, Russ was about to leave Terra in order to hunt down Horus by himself when the Sigilite asked him, "You know that you cannot win?", and Russ answered that he does, but he has no choice. Just like Guilliman wasn't able to let a planet under his command be an unstructured shithole, Russ wasn't able to let his brothers act against their father's will, even if it ment his own death.
.
As for Magnus, this is a whole lot more complicated. When Horus decieved Russ, he told him that the evidence was clear that Magnus turned traitor and the Emperor changed his mind about bringing him back to Terra to answer for his actions and that he wanted Russ to burn Prospero to the ground instead. Russ, despite having not much sympathy for Magnus, actually spoke up against Horus and asked him if there was no other way, but Horus knowing what Russ' purpose as a Primarch was and how he functioned, told him that Big E wanted Russ to bring a traitor to heel. There was also a considerable amount of Custodians and Sisters of Silence with Russ, so the attack on Prospero would've happened one way or another. In the end it turned out that this was all planned by Tzeentch, the god of schemes, and that Russ and Magnus both were played by him through Horus.
Angron makes some good points tho. Russ refused to listen just as much and remained just as stuck in his preconceived worldview as Angron did.
Russ made the best and most important points.
Even Lorgar has to shake his head at Angron’s failure to learn them.
Yes, and unlike Angron, Russ doesn't have nails in his brain. I believe this was Angron's intention here, to prove to himself and his legion that The Emperor is nothing but another slaver. All they wanted was to be left alone to do as they please, and here comes one of the Imperium's slavemasters to force compliance at the point of a gun.
@@laserbeampussydestroyer6279 Angron missed Russ' point, which was that making his Legion take the Nails makes Angron as much a slaver as the Nucerians..
@@headlibrarian1996 You forget that Angron initially fled his own legion. They only got him back because they said they would do anything to serve him. Doesn't sound like a slaver to me!
Laserbeam Pussydestroyer Angron’s Legion made a bargain it couldn’t understand. The Nails and the unforgivable deeds done under their influence made Angron a slave. Angron should have understood, should have rejected the offered bargain. Instead he chose to make others suffer as he had.
This is one of the best written passages in the heresy . Our Lord Russ makes some good points . Angron makes some great points
Emperor is all about shortcuts, he wished for the fastest way to conquer the galaxy. Thus he allowed Angron to live, and to butcher in his name. Ever more insane Angon was not a problem as such, as long as he was loyal he was at least somewhat effective (certainly more than Lorgar was before his shaming), and were he to finally rebel he would have been easily crushed.
Angron has a point though.
12:00 probably one of the most sane things he’s ever said.
The thing I cherish most about your videos and exposition is that you bring the novel to life and you make EVERY scene FEEL deep and meaningful, the way I think the writers must have intended.
Angron is making good points here. This scene depict him as a tragic figure. In his mind, he's still a slave, but worse than that, a slave who is destined to enslave more..
That's why I hate Angron. Every time I feel empathy for him, I'm reminded of what he did to his own men. No excuses for him. He became what he hates the most, a tyrant.
@@keithgainey7853 the same can be said for Curze... But he got more sympathy in general, I don't know why. And curze is maybe my favorite.
Even with all the rage and madness, Angron is somewhat sane, and makes sound arguements. Gives you an idea about how smart he actually is. I think without the buthers nails, he would be a top tier primarch
angron just went full IQ critizising the imperium, its like that video were luigi stops having an accent and goes ''Hello Mario''
"...does this show the Emperors error..."
The more of the videos I watch about the Primarchs, the more the answer to that question is "Yes". As an outsider, I'm getting the impression one of the main questions in Warhammer is "How much of this is the Emperor's fault?". Not "Is this the Emperors Fault" as that is taken as a given, and the question is simply how MUCH of this is his fault.
Should have mentioned the pack of world eaters who actually were trying to reach Angron tho
Angron does not come across as a simpleton at all. I think what makes this scene so sad is that Angron is making really good points.
He feels so much, he can no longer allow himself to feel.
Angron is absolutely RIGHT about the Emperor!
At the end Russ doesn't understand. Angron wants to die. He died a long time ago. He doesn't care and has no fear of dying.
Angron died with his comrades on his world. Fighting against men like the Emperor. The emperor abducted a broken man whom could never believe in anything the Emperor said. In many ways, I think Angron and The Khan are almost the same.
@@YuGiOhAbridgeFAN He could have though, believed in the Emperor, if the Emperor had simply drop podded his legion down to fight with him.
How is he right about the Emperor? Humanity needs to unite against the threats of the Galaxy. For Chaos to stop existing humans need to adopt the Imperial truth, everyone. The Emperor wants the worlds to adopt the Imperial truth (science, logic, progress) and obey him as the true leader but every planet still can keep their ruler, their royal line, to have their own traditions and culture. Those worlds become VASSALS, not slaves. This is not slavery as slavery is taking away property and freedom of development from a person. He doesn't put people in chains, he doesn't drag them against their will. If they serve in the army they get payed while the Space marines do the real fighting.
You are taking the words of a spiteful, broken person who in the end becomes a slave to a true slaver - Khorne.
What do Angron expects really? The Emperor going from planet to planet and asking everyone nicely - you want me to rule you? - and when they say no he be like - okay then, bye!
Seriously dude... it doesn't work that way.
@@Shadowhunterbg You just proved my point. And Angron's point i think.
"What a person wants isn't a person's right".
What the Emperor wants, isn't his right.
The way the Emperor enslaves is by taking away your freedom of choice. You will join the Imperium whether you like it or not. You will believe, and think the way he says you ought to, whether you like it or not. You will do what he says you are meant to do whether you like it or not.
@@leatherjacket9 I don't think that is exactly right. Angron is looking at this from a perspective of still being a slave. What if what angron said was true. If he became Emperor and gave everyone 'freedom' everything would die. There is no asking the Tyranids, Orks, Dark Eldar, Daemons and ( Most) Necrons for peace, there is only slaughter. The Imperial Truth is more or less an excuse for all of humanity to come together. The Emperor has been around for a long time.. and he understands human nature better than anyone. Any human faction not following the Imperial Truth is a potential enemy of the Imperium. The Galaxy is doomed, it always will be but the Emperor offers the sliverist of chances.
I really can't help but laugh every time Angron fails to understand what Lorgar was trying to explain to him about how Russ tried to make Angron realize the flaw behind the Butcher's Nails. Yes, it's sad (and undoubtedly frustrating for everyone else who works alongside Angron) that Angron can't understand the point, but I still find myself laughing at how Angron constantly misses the point. 😂
I would honestly press you to tell me how Russ, in any way possible, won or proved a point here.
No shade, i am nor arguing, for i will most likely retain my opinion on the Night of the Wolf, but hearing or debating is fun.
Same, what point was Russ making? “Butchers nails bad” is all I heard
What point? 🤔
The emperor made Angron watch his friends die and told him to go conquer worlds in his name -> #Fact
The emperor didn't remove the Butcher's Nails (shouldn't be _that_ hard for the most powerful living psyker in the galaxy) -> #Fact
The Emperor gave Angron ZERO reasons to be loyal. All Russ said is "my legion is better than yours", when all of Angron's legion are hampered by the Nails.
Woah.... I never would've expected such a good speech from Angron.
Love this moment between Russ and Angron. Have you read that passage in Sons of the Emperor, where a demon primach angron is almost crying in the bowels of the conqueror calling out to the emperor calling him father asking if it's all over? That's a moving tid bit of lore.
I often wonder what would have happened if the emperor had helped Angron slay his enemies instead of teleporting him out of the battle. Maybe it would not have changed anything at all. But his hatred for his father wouldnt have been so bad, but yet again. Maybe the emperor would have given him another reason to hate.
I think he would have followed the emperor anywhere.
@@nickd5158 Agreed
He could also view it in a similar manner that Mortarion saw it when he was saved, as stealing his victory in a way. Angron and his fellow slaves fought by themselves all the way to that mountain top. If the emperor stepped in at the last second to save them Angron mightve viewed it as taking away his victory, even if he never couldv'e won in the first place.
This actually never made any sense to me. When he met Perturabo he went to the top of a mountain and waited for two days. Meets Vulkan and they do a challenge.
Angron is in a desperate fight and he just beams him up and claims he doesn't have the time. Then throws him to his legion. The lore here is inconsistent and inexplicable unless they plan to clean it up later.
@@ThatGuy-zz2fb Yet even with that, he would have been happier for Emps stepping in to help.
Instead of just stealing him, Emps stepping down to fight with him would have earned loyalty much like It did with Mort.
I think the butcher's nails were a massive wrench in the Emperor's plan. As all Primarchs had a role in mind, especially with their personalities, plus some role overlaps. Angron, was most likely meant tohave role overlap of Jhagatai in valuing freedom, Vulkan in the kind giant, and Leman regards to ferociously wild warrior.
Empy probably had plans for his Primarchs to be involved in filling the LIBERAL and/or "LIBERTARIAN" political roles, to balance the conservative roles of some of the others
Space wolves 🐺 the chapter that got me into 40k my favorite chapter
the thing i love most about the similarities between Russ and Horus.
Horus found it easy to deal and help/manipulate his brothers but cared little for them.
Russ found it hard to talk and help/advise his brothers but cared deeply for them...well most of them
All of them. He even hoped he wouldn't have to kill Magnus when he attacked Prospero.
@@trolldrool , So true, but I think Russ understood his role so much that he had to limit what he felt. He had to constantly check him self and put on the I'm a savage act to keep the rest of them off balance. I wasn't a fan of Russ until I read the Horus Heresy, but after that I see a man bound by his duty and understands there is something bigger going on.
I disagree with Horus not caring for them before he got juiced up with Chaos.
Yis!! Glad you covered this bit! It shows that Russ cast the first blow, when Angron told him to just leave. That Angron actually didn't want to fight.
He also nailed Russ amazingly well in his speech and words to Russ. If you had to put a speech to chaos players and chaos in general, it was Angron's speech.
This was covered greatly! Though you missed alot that shows Angron saw through his Nails during the Battle. Thx Rho!
Honestly I never understood why angron was let loose by the emperor aside from plot reasons which conflict with sound logic.
He was found by the emperor and first transported to a custodes (emperor's?) ship. Could have put him in stasis. The warhounds were effective anyway.
Thanks for all the work you do! Truly enjoyable.
Did we have a Russ week yet? If not I hope we do soon. Btw have a great day!
Believe Rho did do Russ week, but i could be wrong. Either way, Russ is a interesting Primarch to read on.
1.Angron is a total badass beating the wolf lord in one on one combat.
2.Angron week has made me even more convinced that if big E had decided to help Angron’s friends he would still be loyal.
3. I would love to know what Angron would be like without the butchers nails. We know him to be more caring etc. I’d love to see this character ark explored but sadly we won’t see this.
If you want an idea of what Angron would be like without the nails, read this
www.fanfiction.net/s/10578370/11/The-Roboutian-Heresy
It's basically if the loyal primarchs were switched with the traitors and such.
The only one I don't like being changed it Vulkan, for obvious reasons.
Chubbyninja89 Irish Ninja cheers I’ll check it out 👍🏻
@@arbeione
Nice.
They even made me like this version of Konrad Kurze, at least a lot more than I did the normal version of him.
Chubbyninja89 Irish Ninja I know 40k theories also did videos on what would happen if the loyal and traitor Primarchs roles were reversed. It was really good.
@@arbeione
Yeah, I heard about those ones, just never got around to actually sitting down and watching them.
Damn, in Angron's mind he changed one tirant for another when the Emperor 'saved' him. If the Emperor was clueless about Angron betraying him in future you got to ask yourself how dumb the big E was actually
Its either what you said, or he choose to let him live, because of how he would act at the Istvaan. Thus delaying Horus long enough to give The Imperium a chance to win. Even then though.. i'm not sure which is the true reason.
It's all Angron's fault. He was weak. He allegedly killed eldari, only to be what? Taken by some human slavers?
If Russ or even RBG landed there, they would have made the planet into their image.
Angron and Perturabo were weak in their core. At that point, Big E had to either let his son fail, or put down his son like a dog.
...... or maybe just put him in stasis indefinitely until they could find some way to cure him, but hey who are we to judge? The emperor hasn't even risen yet, and in some form of hindsight from the future, we are judging his actions, haha.
People make decisions that are just as dumb if not even dumber in rl with other people all the time.
@@mgtowdadRUclipsSucksCoxks I'd say it's the Emps fault more than Angrons. His actions were illogical from the very beggining regarding teleporting Angron and after that doing nothing about his brain eating dreadlocks hah.
Yeah, Angron seems weak af when compared to RBG or Russ or Horus in some aspects, but none of them had technologicaly advanced civilization bitchslapping them from birth.
@@Tracker947 but everything with Primarchs is bigger and more dramatic! Haha.
'He cares about his brothers' tell that the Magnus , Prospero and His back. He showed how much he 'CARED'
It is weird how russ showed compassion for all the wrong people and was firm with magnus the red.
That was bias and his BIGGEST fuck up.
Strong scene you chose there!
I'm still waiting on Angron vs Hyperion...
Who's hyperion?
@@matthewdeleon382 wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hyperion the Blade-Breaker as dubbed by the Wolves
Hell of a passage man. Well delivered.
I think if wasn't for the nails angron would have been one of the best primarchs the imperium could of asked for
I agree after listening to angrons book
Well done again. If wolf lord Rho and Baldemort did a collaborative vid it would be of epic proportions ripping the galaxy asunder.
Angron just needs a hug from Vulcan!
I would like to see a Angron and Lion interaction. It would be interesting to see how The Lions coldness would affect Angron. Like The Lion never really got along with anyone either, so it would be interesting to see how The Lion would talk to Angron. Like this is The Lion, the Primarch who broke Curze, a feat not even Russ thought was possible. Like I'm sure The Lion would be peaceful but already have planned ahead also.
I doubt he would talk to him at all. Merely observe and work out a strategy to kill him.
As a Lion fan and an Angron fan, that would be a great interaction. One keeps his cards very close to his chest, while the other one can't control his emotions, letting anyone/everyone know what agitates him (everything). The interaction I would really love to see is Angron and Sanguinius. I imagine Sanguinius would have a lot of sympathy, time and patience for Angron's issues, history and POV. Also, they share some loose, yet interesting, similarities that could have served as the beginnings for a brotherly bond no other primarch could hope to forge with Angron:
- both have a blood lust of sorts
- both struggle with anger issues
- they are two of the best 1on1 fighters among the primarchs
- one is known as the red angel, while the other is literally a red angel
- next to the big huggable black guy, they seem to be the primarchs with the most empathy (pre-nails and pre-daddy issues)
It would be great to see how they related to eachother (or clashed with eachother).
Hopefully you will cover Angron vs Gulliman as that confrontation has My favorit Angron spech in it.
Thanks wolf lord I love the primarch videos!!!! Space wolves bringing the justice of the imperium is WHAT I'm about 🤘😝🤘
Cringed badly
I wonder how different it would have been if it was the night of the Lion or the Fist. I can’t see Johnson or Dorn being as sympathetic as Russ
the lion would have instantly killed angron at the very first implied threat to the emperor.
The Emperor should have tried to remove the nails even at the risk of his life. A life lived in permanent agony is not worth living.
He already tried removing them and said he couldn't. There's a meeting between the big-E and Arkhan Land where he has an out cold Angron flat out on a table with some weird medical finger-glove things looking at his brain. The nails are so embedded that removing them would kill him as they're so ingrained by that point.
This is all the emperors fault, he should have done more to try and get the nails taken out. He knew angron was a dead man anyway, but all he cared about was letting angron loose to help build the imperium. Russ' only mistake was letting angron live. Brilliant story and it really shows the side of russ that doesn't get seen much
The Big E tried. Problem was that the nails had basically REPLACED parts of Angron's brain. Remove them and Angron dies.
I think in an ironic sort of way Angron was right in the fight. Once it became clear that Angron either would not understand or could not understand the point Russ was making, Russ should have struck him down. Angron made it crystal clear that he had no intention of changing his ways, and just moments before he spoke of taking the Emperor's head. Russ made a mistake in allowing Angron to live and in due course, Angron would become a Daemon Primarch, an immortal bane to humanity. This was one of the last chances to prevent that outcome, and Russ shirked that opportunity.
You need to do Leman Russ week!!!!!!!!!!!!
As nuts as Angron is... he definitely isn't stupid and he thinks for himself on a deeper level than one would assume... however he is still so wrong... Great Vid!
Russ should've given the order. Russ should've finished it. Angron deserved that peace at least
He didn’t because the emperor would have lost two legions and two Primarchs that day. In the book Russ admits that killing Angron would have been their doom. They would have killed him for sure but after that the world eaters would never have stopped fighting. They would have fought the very last man and they already had the war on their side. Russ had already lost too many men to switch and hold them back. He likely would have ordered a retreat but it would do nothing once Khârn simply orders the Conqueror to fire its claws and drag the flagship back. The escorts would attempt to defend the flagship but would be taken down by the WE fleet. They would likely board the flagship with the entirely of the WE legion. The space wolves would meet their end along with their Primarch in orbit and the world eaters would be branded traitors and likely be crippled from overwhelming losses.
wow... this vid really made me hope this guy jumps the queue for a new daemon primarch model... and I'm a blood angels player o_o
I love these traitor primarch weeks. I've learned so much I never knew About angron from these videos and now i can really sympathize and understand some of his motives. It's truly tragic that the nails robbed him of any chance at the life he was meant to live. The comment about the slaves though makes me wonder if there wouldn't of been friction between angron and the ideals of the imperium even without the nails.
I realy like Russ,how he seas Angron and his Sons,it is sad.
It's so interesting, Russ seems to always carry the weight of the world on his shoulders. Always feeling that he is to blame for things that are not his fault
Angron does have a fair point here, Big E offered only one choice to human worlds : join or die, as for xenos, even the peacful one got wiped out...
Angron and Vulkan having this same conversation would have been interesting
My favorite scene in my favorite book. Legendary!
Angron is hated, but this made him human.
VI - Soldiers
XII - Warriors
Russ is right, but Angron is not wrong.
For a son of Russ, Angron quickly becoming hands down my favourite Primarch was unexpected. 30k lore expanded so much on him, every word he spits out is truth. Favourite Primarch lore moment, the fanboy in me is screaming lol. The dialogue between them heard out loud was a pleasure!! Thanks.
I wish they would make a action game where yiu can play as any of the primarchs and play through campaigns that come straight from the lore
Right here is when a smart emperor puts down angron.
I really hope that GW will give angron time to shine and show off the melee badass he can be
Sweeeeet. Just finished Angel Exterminatus and am about to start this book. Hype.
In Angel Exterminatus is there lot of Perturabo and insight into his character?
@@SSangsen ooooooh ya. It focuses on the Iron Warriors and why the turned. Basically Perturabo felt left out of all the glory while his legion sat in the dirty shitty trench warfar and how Perturabo really hates war and just wants to be an architect and build impressive buildings. The volcano for when they did the council of Nikaea for example was built by Perturabo. But he made it as a place for fears of strength like for the old olympic games. But the fact that the emperor used it to censor Magnus shamed Perturabo deeply especially as him and Magnis were close friends. And Perturabo constantly hates Fulgrim for what his legion has become and the Iron Warriors are revolted by chaos more or less. Probably one of my favorite books so sar. Started off not liking Perturabo but ended up feeling for him at the end.
@@Schlynn thank you for your long response, Exterminatus will be the next book im going to buy. While loyalist at heart i feel traitor primarchs got more interesting stories, by far. Perturabo is my favourite, he kinda reminds me more evil Stannis from GoT series. Thanks again for reply.
@@SSangsen highly recommend it. You won't regret it. And if you're into old eldar lore this book dives into that too a little bit.
I had my suspicions but the fact that angron had enough wherewithal to have a conversation with Russ as to why he’s butchering worlds it leads me to believe that the emperor’s “cold demeanor” towards angron is just a result of the nails. The first thing he said to angron was “what have they done to you” when the emperor realized through conversation that he was a man looking through life at the end of his days. He realized what not only what the trauma of slavery had on him but the effect of the nails makes so that it’s impossible to heal. Physically and mentally. So his agony is eternal. You are now dealing with a man who is not only inconsolable but a veritable berserking crash out. There’s no talking to someone like that but the emperor actually made to him too late. The emperor also being aware of certain time lines could have assessed that he was going to betray him or die in time so it’s best to keep him for doing the one thing he can do. Butcher. Destroy. And just keep him away from Terra. That’s why he never brought Angron to Terra to learn about his heritage. He was already too far gone. The planet he was on tampered and corrupted his very being. The Emperor and his Father’s only recourse was to give him purpose. That’s literally the only thing he could have done. Besides really buckle down and try to figure a work around around the nails. Truly tragic.
Took me rereading this, but Rho added some things here. Made Angron out to be just as bad as Russ in this, when he actually wasn't. Very interesting Rho, i guess even you have your biases.
The book betrayer is one of the great books of the lore looking at the likes of Karn who let a angron hammer the nails in to his head so that a legion can be close to there father only for them just to be ignored the loyalty they all have to the legion even when they kill each other in there pits how what is left of the librarians are feared and tolerated the best line to some up in the book is when karn is talking to the leader of the gal vorbrak and he says you all had the nails smashed in to your head for a unforgiving father why we did so we can understand to be like him and is told he failed and karn reply’s I know with such a heavy heart yet he fights
I think Russ went to censure Angron, was due to the fact that he didn't want to kill another of his brothers and he saw that what Angron was doing would lead him into a situation where Russ would have to kill him.
Russ wasn’t wrong for trying it shows the strength of character and selflessness. It’s just another example of why he’s the best primarch. If he’s had a grin killed the battle would have gone the other way russ would’ve decimated the world eaters. And who fired that first lone shot? Was it an agent of teentch?
Either that or the Cabal making another one of their dumb decisions.
Russ could see that Angron was a liability not just to his legion or the crusade, but to the imperium as a whole. But really so are many of the primarchs, even before they fell to Chaos. Jaded demigods with the maturity of teenagers.
Truly if it wasn’t for the nails angron would’ve been a different man. As for the wolf king he was right to try to change his brothers mind his ways. I would.
I said it before, the whole world of Nuceria deserved to burn for what they did to Angron, but he is still responsible for the terrible things he did. I think he simply gave up and let the nails rule him, because his experience on that world broke him.
The Emperor's faculties through all of this, the treatment of his sons, the push into treachery for half of them... they are extremely questionable. Is this what it means to be a god in all but name? To be unable to see the smaller details for the big picture?