2023 Stockli Montero AR and Montero AX Skiing and On Snow Discussion with SkiEssentials.com
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- Опубликовано: 18 дек 2022
- Jeff and Bob had an unplanned Stockli Montero AX and AR morning, so grabbed a camera, took a few runs, and chatted about these new skis. Enjoy!
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I have had a pair of Laser ARs for three seasons now and the jury is in: By a mile the most versatile and most confidence boosting pair of skiis I have ever owned. Simply the best «do it all, with an emphasis on groomers» ski on the market, imo. I also have a Volkl Racetiger, a Stormrider 95, a Laser GS and a Volkl Rise Beyond.
They're pretty awesome! Thanks for the feedback.
I demoed a set of the Monterro ARs up at Mammoth last month in beat-up Sierra cement crud after absolutely HATING a set of Blizzard Brahmas earlier in the day. So I was frustrated and tired with achy knees and a bad disposition, and told the ski wrangler at Footloose "These suck - gimmie something better". He sighed, and reached for a pair of 175 Monteros AR, and I was like "WTF? I want a MAN'S SKI - gimmie something LONGER! He rolled his eyes and said "You SURE about that?" and saif "FY I'm sure!" gimmie gimmie gimmie!
...I walked out with a set of 180s. I'm 5'-9" in heels and weight 145 lbs soaking wet. I hated the look of the ski. The tails looked flat and boring AF. I was in a very bad mood, having made two trips into town on a POWDER DAY at MAMMOTH because the Bramahs somehow managed to be both squirrely AND dead underfoot, and nearly killed me charging down a BLUE RUN in the chop. No thanks I like a ski that POPS out of turns...
So I put on the ugly, too long boards with the Swiss Army Knife logo on their tip bases and sweat up my Nordica / Surefoot custom boots tunicate tight as I hop off chair 3 at the top of Face of 5, and look down at the lightly skied GS course pitch I always have trouble getting my Nordica Enforcer 100s to bite into, and let 'er RIP!
omfg....YOU HAVE TO BE SH*TING ME!!! I just THINK about turning, and those boards are halfway through the most precise carve I've ever managed on that icy pitch. Smooth and damp as a glass of Brandy, same fire in the belly. They launch me into the next turn like a pogo stick, seamlessly soaking up every rut and bump like a loofa, precise as a scalpel. Zero chatter. Liquid smooth. Like they are on rails. Predictable as an atomic clock, biting into the ice like a demented pitbull, happily releasing their death grip on the ice outta of turns so they can bite the ice going the other way.
What sort of witchcraft is this? Some sort of deal was made with the dark lord of skiing at the trail intersection.
...500 vertical feet of hard-packed chopped up Face of 5 was conquered in under than 30 seconds. Let's see how they handle the crud off-piste!
...and by some miracle, they bashed and floated their way through 2' of beat-up, heavy molasses like mid-afternoon goo as though I was at Alta on a 0 degree Champaign powder morning. You gotta be sh*tiing me! They floated and turned in the chunky concrete almost as well as my Enforcer 100s, but were much more tenacious, and polite on piste. Knee friendly too with that 85mm waist.
Wow...just...wow! I wanted to hate the. They are Fugly f*k if you ask me. I was in a bad mood going in, had a sh*t eating grin as I returned them to the shop, trying to remain cool when their price was quoted. The only thing I regretted off-piste was going with the 180s instead of the 175s. Took a little more effort than necessary to turn in the tight scrubby "tree skiing)" (More like bush skiing) at Mammoth. Gonna have to demo the 175s next. Bet they are even more fun on piste and in the narrow chutes I love so much. It's probably worth sacrificing a little bit of float for a shorter radius when slaloming through soccer dads and their feckless teenage broods on Stump Alley. Speed and maneuverability are life on that - the most crowded and therefore most dangerous run at Mammoth. They can't hit you from behind if they can't keep up with you.
I've been skiing for over 40 years. I can't count count how many different brands and types of skis I tried over the years. Up until now, I thought my 2018 Nordica Enforcer 100s were the best I'd ever do for an all mountain ski. They are still a great ski, but they bite hard square on your a$$ on piste if you let your guard down. They feel like roller skates on ice, refusing to grip no matter how sharp and polished I keep those edges. They'll get relegated to deep first chair powder and rocky spring slush at Mt Baldy now.
$1500 price tag be damed - I'm in LOVE with the Monterro AR. ;-)
Great review and very colorful descriptions! Loved reading this.
Great skis! =)@@SkiEssentials
What a great review!
You guys are awesome! Please keep stuff like this up!
Will do!
We're very glad to see you guys having fun with our Montero line🤩 Thank you for the video and for the detailed reviews, they're absolutely great😃👏
@Stöckli: Thank YOU for making the best skis on the planet.
Just insanely smooth and powerful. Total skiing bliss.
A perfect blend of power and finesse, that the rest of the industry has yet to figure out.
i watch all your video because I am 70 and in Heart Failure...as a once skier I still can't figure why you both look so great on Elan Ripsticks vs other brands...thanks for all your vids as it helps me remember great times.
Wow, thank you!
i bought the AXs after your initial glowing review and skied them this past weekend with months and months of anticipation…couldn’t agree more…the responsiveness and nuance they pick up is astounding…they are my one ski quiver so, we will see how they translate to powder!
Nice! Have fun in soft snow!
One outing on the Montero AR 175; 29 runs in 4 hours, no breaks. Conditions refrozen, wet cement turned into crud. I took the mounting point of the Laser AX and used it on the Montero AR. I mounted the bindings myself (STH2 16’s). Impressions: Tighter turns than Laser AX (I attribute it to the 1.5° base bevel; steeper angles required to engage edges); they just devoured junk; super damp; feels quicker edge to edge than an 84-mm waisted ski; I found myself favoring the fore body (vs the waist, as in the Laser AX) when attacking the mountain; the crappy conditions disappeared under these skis; I was imposing my will on the mountain where everybody else slowed down; For a ski than can carve so aggressively and, its geometry, I found it not “hooky” on crud and almost like it had two on-demand personalities: all-mountain feeling when linking short turns, and a carving machine feeling when dropping the hips and pressing the shins against the tongue of the boots. I find the Laser AX to be a longer GS turn cruiser than the Montero AR, which prefers tighter turn radii. I ski in the worst conditions and I need a ski that can devour junk. The Montero AR blew me away in New Hampshire cement and ice. Oh, and those tails are powerful turn finishers.
Great feedback, thanks for sharing!
Out of curiosity, how much advanced the mounting point resulted from the standard Stockli point? Thanks!
Love your reviews!! Just ordered my Stormrider 95s and hope they arrive before Christmas
Good choice!
Your reviews have established a new, higher bar, for third party ski equipment reviews. Congratulations. Your work implies an intention to become authoritative and I assume you intend to maintain your lead. Assuming you are interested in constructive suggestions, I offer the following.
While editing the video on the Stockli Monteros, did you notice that you hardly mentioned which of the two skis (AR , AX) you were discussing in the moment? At the very beginning, you explained which ski each of you were riding. Subsequently, reference was made to width and nothing else (and I was listening carefully).
Suggestions:
1. When reviewing more than one ski model, either add the specific model to your script OR add captions to the video.
2. When there are two reviewers, swap skis so you may actually compare experiences.
3. include meta data (technical details) in text so a viewer can assess how closely your experience would be to the viewer's in the same conditions:
Reviewer (age, height, wt)
Ski (model, size) and binding
Site and Situation - ski area, date, temperature & wind, slope name and color)
Other ??
Decades ago, SKI magazine published an annual ski review providing technical performance details on each ski including quantitative measures including how each ski would react to specific tests such as deflection with a given weight on the center point, the degree of twist in the shovel and tail with a standard torsional force. They were not dealing with vibration damping, swing weight and other more modern designed features but such would be relatively simple to implement. This allowed objective (quantitative) grouping so readers could identify sets of comparable products meeting their specific interests and focus their testing to a comparable set of products and evaluate relative value.
Suggestion:
1. Add a grid to your web site which provides all pertinent measures for new and legacy models (so technical evolution is revealed).
2. Qualitative differences (inter-layer rubber powder, titinal tweaks, core wood utilization) could be included in narratives.
3. Link your videos and your product specific pages to each product line.
4. For products no longer available, allow members, for a fee, to link their "for sale" products on resale sites.
As a professional ski instructor, I often recommend information sources to students planning to upgrade their equipment. Providing this information would be a major magnet for serious shoppers like me.
Hey Scott! Some interesting thoughts you have there. Always appreciate any feedback or suggestions.
1. This video was a little different than what we normally do, and perhaps somewhat harder to follow if you don't some existing context. I (Jeff) got a Montero AX for myself. Bob got a Montero AR. So, in this video, we were skiing on our own skis, with our own binding choices, etc. So, anytime I was talking, I was talking about my personal experience on the AX. Same is true with Bob, except for the AR.
2. We almost always swap skis around in other videos, but in this situation, Bob can't fit in my 285 mm Pivots, nor can I fit in his ~315 mm STH.
3. We could definitely do a better job communicating our meta data, I think sometimes it just feels repetitive for Bob and I. I (Jeff) am 5'10 and around 155 lbs. Bob is 6'2 and about 225 lbs. You can find all that date in our annual Ski Tests, and we often bring it up when we feel it's most relevant.
In regards to the objective quantitative data, I like where your head's at. We work with the guys at soothski.com quite a bit, so have access to some of their data (very similar to what you're describing). We could potentially integrate that information into the site, or maybe just in our Ski Test.
Have a great season!
Interesting comments about the race plate at 6:30, I've got a pair of the old Elan M777 192's with a Vist plate and sth16 steels. Aside from being insanely heavy at about 20lb, they are an easy skiing soft flexing fat GS ski with a ~80mph top end.
Listening to your discussion about bindings I was wondering if you could do a video about binding features, why they make a difference for different skis, etc.
There is a comparison here: ruclips.net/video/RqF6AWejbsY/видео.html
It's not the most recent, but bindings don't see as frequent changes as skis do.
See above, but yes, especially with outliers like Pivot, it's an interesting conversation.
it is just weird.. i am more used to skiing on race skis similar to those as to powder skis.. even though we used to come out here in Colorado and spring ski all the time i am still more used to the Wisconsin ice more than the Colorado pow.. i do appreciate you guys talking about how certain skis are better for certain conditions.. race skis on ice is a good example..
i was the same until i moved west from wisco
"Fat skis are better in powder." Damn, Bob with the smooth skiing and quips today. He was on fire in all dimensions.
Hopefully the skiing was smoother than the quips. 😃
Jeff was skiing really well on this ski! can't tell if it's the ski, the snow or you got better
Thanks!
When do these guys not ski well?
I guess there are worse unplanned things in life! Great review as always.
Yes! Thank you!
I see the video title and I think "yes"
I bought the Elan Ripstick 88s from you all this year and I freaking love them ! Can you go into more how these compare? I have always wanted to add a Stockli to the quiver.
The main difference is in the weight. The Montero is pretty heavy, and that's a good thing for stability and power, but not as good for quickness and versatility. If you have the Ripstick 88, I'd go with the narrower AX for greater differences in feel and application. The AR seems to enjoy the longer turns and higher speeds while AX is into slightly shorter turns and more moderate speeds (even though it can go very fast).
Thank you so much for this and other amazing reviews! You guys rock! I am considering to get the stockli ax. What length would you recommend for an intermediate skier 5’11 and 200 lb? Thank you so much!
I'd say 178 is a good choice for your stats and application. Have fun!
Thank you so much!
How do these compare with Elan Wingman 82 CTI (as maneuvrability, turns, stability)? I'm an intermediate skier (180cm/5'11" and 95 Kg/210lb. Thanks and keep up your great reviews!
The Elan is a bit quicker than both and prefers to be used in shorter-swing carved turns. The Stockli skis have a greater range of turn shape and style, and can accomplish the long, drawn out carves as impressively as shorter skidded turns. The Stockli are more stable, but the Elan is pretty darn maneuverable.
SE
Where did you mount your pivots on the AXs in relation to boot center line? Just received my 173 AXs and the center line is very far aft, it's crazy! I will test some different positions on Sunday as I have the strive binding, but I'm curious what you found the sweet spot to be. Thanks!
We've never wavered from the line. Even though it does look far back, it's at the center of the sidecut, and we trust the Stockli engineers to make the mount decision for us.
I always preferred taking the wider and stiffer ski - in this case the AR - and buying it a little shorter for playability. I never size past the bridge of my nose, which is a 170.
Skis operate really well in shorter lengths these days--I wish I had gone 180 in my AR.
I'm 77, 5'5" 150lb and consider myself an advanced skier. I live and ski primarily in the Poconos of PA with a few trips every year to VT, NH, NY and 1 out West. I ski mostly groomed blues and blacks and love carving both fast and cruising. Have to deal with crud and will venture off piste occasionally if conditions are decent. I currently ski Volkl RTM 80 161's but would like more pop out of the turn. Considering Stockli Montero AX 163, Volkl Deacon 84 162 and maybe Deacon 80 162. Recommendations? Thanks for your time and expertise
The Deacon 80 is the smallest jump in terms of performance while the other two are a few steps up from where you're at. If you're looking for a big leap in performance, I'd look squarely at the Montero, but it's a pretty stiff ski, as is the Deacon 84. I think the 80 provides a lot of room for improvement while also having a very high-performance ceiling. I'd lean to the 80
Hello, thank you so much for the review, I'm torn between the 2. Do you think the 183 Vs 185 for the AR makes a difference? For reference I'm 6'10, 135kg so on the heavy side, used to skiing stuff too short for me but always cautious when buying my own
The difference is more in terms of turn shape than ski length--the AR in the 185 definitely likes to make longer and more sweeping turns while the 183 AX is more in the mid-range of turn shape and style. I really like the 185 because it's so incredibly smooth and powerful.
you mentioned you would not taking it on a powder day or off-piste. but why would you then go for a montero instead of a laser sc or cx?
Should I go for the montero because I will only have one pair of skis and it also allows for days with more snow or not perfect pistes amymore?
thanks
Good question! I think that having the 84 in the quiver allows for an even narrower ski in the quiver. Something more race-like for ski bum races and the like. If you're going to have one pair of Stockli skis, though, I'd think 84 is a great place to be.
Either of you guys end up getting one of these? If so, what did you go with for a binding? Would a 95mm Pivot brake be a stretch on the AR? I've become quite partial to the Pivot over the years.
So, the skis we're on in the video are ours. Jeff put a Pivot with the 75 mm brake on the AX and it works great. I didn't feel the Pivot 95 would work on the AR, so I put a Salomon/Armada STH 16 with a 90 mm brake and it's awesome.
183cm guy with 105kg, looking for a fast carving skis. Should I go with the AR 180 or AX 178? Thanks, great video!
Fast carves are better suited by the AR. I'd go with that in the 180.
Is this kind of like a narrower Storm Rider 88 or is it kind of a very different animal? How would it compare to something like the Brahma 82?
Kind of, but kind of not. If anything, it's sort of in between the Stormrider 88 and Brahma. Stormriders feel lighter and a little softer flexing too. It has more of an all-mountain feel overall. Montero AR is closer than AX, but still has more frontside/Laser influence in its build and overall feel. Brahma 82 is a pretty good comparison to the Montero AX, IMO, but it's stiffer and not quite as dynamic. Pretty darn good value in that Brahma, however, as you get a lot of similar characteristics, but for significantly less money.
Which one do you think would be better for a progressing intermediate skier? I’m 5’8”, 170, 53yrs old. I would mainly use them as a frontside ski out here in Northern CA. Thanks!
I'd lean to the AX for your application and location. I'd go with the 163 or 168 depending on your level of aggressiveness and desire for stability at speed.
How does the Salomon strive that stockli has on the AX compare to the Marker xcomp you pair with it online?
The Strive from Stockli is a demo binding on a track, so it functions more like a system versus the XComp which is a real race binding. The XComp is a bit heavier, even given the plate--we've loved the light weight of the Strive demo over the past year, but it's still not quite as confidence-inspiring as the XComp.
What size of the AX would you recommend for me? I am 176cm tall and feel comfortable on all groomers also in higher speeds. I am not going off piste frequently but like from time to time. Thanks!
I'd say the 168 will offer the best performance and accessibility.
Just out of curiosity, which camera and what settings are you using?
GoPro Hero 11 Black. 4K, 8:7 Aspect Ratio, 60 FPS. In our studio we use a Panasonic HC-X20, but I don't think that's relevant to this video.
What do you guys think of on3p skis
Reputable company, good quality from what I've seen. They're one of those brands that we'd love to test more, we just don't have great access to their skis right now. I have a good amount of friends who ski/have skied them and generally people seem satisfied with their performance.
So, for a guy who skis Stowe every weekend, and likes the bumps and trees, which do I go with? AR or AX? I'm 5'7" 175lbs.
As a Stowe skier and AR owner, I think I'm going with the AX. The flotation is negligible, and I just have really enjoyed the smoothness and energy of the AX the more I ski it. No love lost for the AR, but the AX has started to stand out to me. I'd say 173?
@@SkiEssentials thanks! When you say “the flotation is negligible “ are you referring to the difference in performance in powder between the two skis?
Any mogul skiing on either of these? Like who's the fav all Mnt for this stuff as well as moguls in the Stockli line?
It's funny, they're just so amazing on groomers, I don't really want to ski them in bumps. I would rather ski the AX just for a bit more quickness and agility.
I love your reviews. Completely off topic, your voices sound natural, but that chair lift has to be in slow motion.
The fixed-grip double definitely feels like a slo-mo chair in comparison to the high-speeders that we ride most of the time for sure.
Oh boy is this great !⛷❄️
@ xulangues: Short answer, + 1 CM from Stockli's first generation Montero AR suggested mount point. My comments keep disappearing from RUclips. I hope this one remains untouched.
You mean the ideal setting would also be +1cm forward on the Strive demo? I've read a few times the ideal point would be 1 or 1.5cm forward on the AR. I got a pair recently with end of season deal!
If the Strive bindings were mounted to the -13.5 cm suggested mounting point, then yes; + 1 CM will bring the boot center to -12.5 from true center on the Montero AR 2022-23. If the bindings don’t let you see the suggested mounting line, you have to measure and mark yourself. Then line up the boot center arrow with your -12.5 CM mark.
@@dick91p thanks that makes sense!
@ mathieug6136 -You’re welcome. I can’t see my comment anymore, but I’m glad you got to read it before it disappeared.