T'au First impressions on 10th edition 40k.
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Nick has so many choices to make for Tau! Don't expect them to play the same way as before but theres lots here to dive in.
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Anyone else find it ironic we get the waiting detachment, but have to wait for the don't wait detachment?
yeah, id rather get montka so I can use Farsight now -_-
@@whackify I would like to see if we can the eight as a detachment for 10th edition, with farsight leading the way
@@lordofdefiance8174 Lol just 8 models with the ability to just MURDER everything in sight
The return of 9th edition tau killyness
Irony or patience
Gw be like “BE PATIENT”
Can't believe they made an army rule specifically to stop Nick from split firing
Nick's personality and playstyle with the Tau got me to play them as my first army at the beginning of 9th, having only played a very few games due to covid I am still excited to try the new support shooting system of 10th!
Same! Watching Nick play Tau is so much fun to see him so excited!
Same for me. I just got into Warhammer 6 months ago and Nick was one of the biggest reasons I chose Tau. I've been waiting for this video for a few weeks now. I hope he does a follow-up when the codex comes out. It would be for the Greater Good. Thanks, Nick!!
The reduction of range on fusion blasters hurts me more than it should, having lost assault in suit weapons is the most hurtful thing ever.
Yeah it’s going to take some getting use to
@@PlayOnTabletop I will lose some games thinking I can advance and fire, hopefully Mont'ka will fix it. On the bright side breachers and fireblade on a devilfish look strong
piranha fusion range 12..... i tried it yesterday, its unuseable. if the guy moves, youre fucked.
At least we can fix it by taking a coldstar
ya it's like GW decided that tau was going to be the new low tear army. 12 inches on a 4+ to a multi wound armor unit like Dreads is just suicide. I mean even if you get the hits and wounds if you don't kill it your *incert unit here* is going to get shanked.
If this is positive I call shenanigans
Cautiously optimistic?
@@PlayOnTabletopSHENANIGANS
@@PlayOnTabletop Losing drones, bodyguards, wargear options, range, and AP is hard to be optimistic.
@@mbrown7361 😁😁😁
I think there are overall a lot of things to discuss with tau- a big part being the "why". Like why do certain units do things or no longer do things. Especially from a lore perspective. Why are riptides so weak? Why is fusion, a well known armor killer depicted as such in all the novels no longer really good against tanks? A big one for my is why did etherials no longer have their version of litanies, or why don't they have more leadership buffs considering their the leadership caste? Overall I don't think our index is necessarily bad......but it feels incredibly bland. Every army besides tau seem to have a plethora of keywords while we really don't. I think with ghost keels and broadsides, we got a good amount of anti armor. However melee is what worries me the most. WIth the overall lethality of the game going down, alot of the other indexes still have great mobility and melee. Top it off, some serious psychic powers to contend with. We have nothing to contend psychers, and outside of farsight, nothing to deal with melee, though kroot if they manage to kill a unit, can at least survive decently with a 4/5 fnp. I dunno, really seems like the Tau have been relegated to a discount/shittier version of the Imperial Guard but less interactive in multiple phases. Really gutted the image the Tau had going into this edition portrayed in the books.
Because when someone touches Tau rules they dont really care about improving the army, its just a balance pass, so special rules that are problematic dont get reworked, they get axed, because thats easier, and that eats away at the character of the army and cuts into how lore accurate their units are, and when things seem weak they just give them stat bonuses, but not too much or they might be useful.
Thats why they feel bland and not lore accurate, they dont actually add anything into the rules.
Theres been no creativity pointed towards Tau in years now, which honestly makes me miss the Matt Ward approach.
The lack of melee is nothing new but if you look in each edition the thing there is if melee locks them out of shooting or not, so in editions where it does, Tau get weak, because limiting overwatch and limiting their ability to shoot in melee or shoot after falling back, you shut down the army nearly completely for 1-2 round in a max 5 round game.
i feel the same way. it is a big nerf not just in terms of weapon capability but also complexity. look at sisters or gsc. tau has shit compared i dont want tau to be op, but I want something to do. so im gonna play a differnt army. im not gonna play riptide with strengt8, it previously had like 14 and got nerfed to half while costing the same. wht the actual fuck. also you will struggle with tanks.. since points are all static on battlesuits that means you cant use them with infantry weapons and fire warriors are shite now without -1 they are not worth that price. theyre alwys too expensive.. other troops have several abilities, ap, etc. fire warriors get the privilege to get killed in a devilfish. but the missiles improved thats good.
Because +1 Ballistic Skill, Ignore Cover, Lethal Hits, Sustained Hits2, on a unit with movement 18 is a factor, would be my guess(about Fusion Blasters on Crisis teams). I really dont know any other faction that can get these kind of bonuses on their melta weaponry in such a reliable way. We are talking about up to 21 Fusion Blasters here, with these benefits, from a single unit.
Ethereals are command point generators and can make a unit fight harder/longer, which means more uses of Strategems that can help you avoid melee(I think Kauyon has 3 strategems that help with that) or give you more firepower in certain situations.
For Leadership bonuses, bring Aun'va.
I bet Mon'Ka gives your whole army the assault keyword
I think its gonna be Lethal hits from rounds 1 - 3
@@dionrussell9681 Not so sure about either. If you want a rush/assault setup, there are already some components that can do that(Crisis with Coldstar Commander, Breacher Teams with Pulse Blasters). And if you want more Lethal hits, Kauyon already has an Enhancement for Observer units that gives their Guided partners Lethal Hits(as mentioned in the video, Pathfinders are very strong).
I am thinking more that it will be bonuses for taking and holding objectives, as well as removing enemy units. Powerful, offensive Strategems and additional Command Point generation.
The guided system fells at odds with battlesuits. With all the different weapons they can have splitting fire was always a valid option. Now its gone by the wayside
At minimum they should be able to ignore the minus 1 if they are shooting at a unit that another unit is marking
100% agree. A favorite tactic was dropping a squad or two into the backlines with Manta Strike and spreading the love across everything I could get shots off at and reasonably kill... Now, the whole squad has to focus fire a single unit. And the loss of Sweep and Clear for Farsight Enclaves also sucks (full rerolls to hit and to wound).
Not really gone. Most of them have a wargear option that allows them to negate negative modifiers, if splitting fire is what you want. Combine that with some of the Indirect Fire weaponry, and you can both "focus" one enemy, and provide fire support for other units at the same time.
Also, the benefits to being Guided is fairly big. +1 to Ballistic skill, ignore cover, Lethal hits(enhancement) Sustained Hits 2(Kauyon).
Man, compared to most of the other "first impressions" videos, it sounds like the T'au have had more taken away than added. The Spotter/Guided system sounds conceptually interesting, but fiddly in being able to remember who's paired with who and making sure the units compliment each other, so you can't really have one squad per assignment with them. Still, a spotter with markerlights giving someone improved accuracy and ignoring cover does sounds like a nice swing and accuracy and damage output if you can get into a rhythm of getting those bonuses to surgically strike parts of the opposing army. I'm interested to see how they play now, as it really sounds like how the army plays has been reworked from the ground up.
An impression I'm getting so far with 10th is that the "Objective Secure" score and Battle Shock will potentially play huge factors in games in determining and undermining who controls what objectives, as some units/squads with higher scores will have an easier time claiming objectives and potentially be harder to shift, while being able to inflict Battle Shock outside of the normal times can potentially deny your opponent an objective and the accompanying points.
You’re definitely gonna need Game Aides (to uses Kenny Boucher’s terminology).
I think (in regards to the oc stat and moral) that GeeDubs is trying to make moral actually matter, that’s why blast gets +1 for every 5 guys because marine players take 5 man units where possible (funny that so many newer units can take less than 5 guys)
I’m curious about rules transfer within units, so do the crisis suits give commanders that join them the advance 6”? (There are similar questions in other armies)
Its nothing new for Tau.
Literally too.
Super excited to play 10th, got my tau army almost done. These new rules make it very possible for many Tau units to have BS 2+, also happy with how quick our models are. I would have liked to see Mont'ka rules though, and I hoping the onager gauntlet makes a return in the codex :(
Me too
I would love any options to bring back my onager gauntlet+thermo projector coldstar
I'm really curious how you get a BS 2+ on Crisis, Pathfinders, Broadsides, Riptide or Ghostkeel. Commanders had already a BS 2+ on 9th.
Anything with heavy is +1 bs and when they are guided they are +1 to the hit roll therefore infantry heavy weapons on 3s and big stuff on 2s
Well okay, I miss the heavy part in my reflexion. Pathfinders can get one, but hit on 5+ (so 3+ if guided and don't move). There are even very few of Heavy weapons in the T'au index.
The only usefull units that can hit on 2+ (after buff) are Commanders, Breacher, Hammerhead/Longstrike, one Broadside wargear options, Stormsurge. That's all. Seriously, the whole part of the army will hit on 3+ if guided, and approximately only half of your army can be guided.
(There is the Firesight that can hit on 2+ too, but he only makes 2 damage against a T4 SM character and stats become even badder against a tougher character. There are the Cadre Fireblade and Darkstrider but if you deal some damage with them -> gg guys. And finally one aircraft against flying units, but that's an aircraft, and he don't have a lot of strength.)
Thank you Nick for inspiring me to take on the Tau as my second Warhammer 40k army
6:15 "...tearing into ANYTHING WE WANT TO" - Yeah, like Grotz & Guardsmen?? S5...
"high tech long range tactical shooting" 18 inch range guns: let us introduce ourselves
Still a lot of 30" or higher weaponry. From basic Strike teams and Pathfinders with special weapons, to various suits and tanks that reach 60+ range.
Well done, and very solid initial analysis from Nick. Been a Tau player since their first Codex. This sounds like one of the biggest deviations yet -- and shuttling us down a pretty narrow road. Like Nick, hope that the Codex offers more options. The good news? I'll stop working on adding more specialty drones...which I just bought more of 2 months ago...
Thanks for this Nick. My best mate bought me Farsight for my birthday - I’ve adored the Tau for as long as I can remember but always held off from collecting them due to - well, due to a huge pile of shame blocking the way!
I’ve played more 40K in the past 3 months compared to the last 17+ years. Loving 10th edition - and that’s from a DG player! Looking forward to finally starting Tau.
The sheer amount of shield drones you can use in 10th is bananas, and there's absolutely no reason to not take a ton of them.
7:37 except for Eldar, cuz they can just "fate" the rolles to trigger all of their anti-tank ability keywords and then "fate" the damage rolls to always cause maximum damage, then boom goodbye mbt on turn 1.
nicks enthousiasm is what got me into 40k in general, and is the single reason i play the t'au. splitfire!
Splitfire is dead. Thanks greater good "benefit"
bet he'll make it work nontheless
Not gonna lie, feel frustrated that I spent money making and army that now plays very different
At least the beauty of tabletop games means that 9th edition T’au are always going to be accessible!
😂😂😂
Invest in a 3D printer friend
This is the 40k experience. One advantage is that it gives you a good reason to pull out units that weren't useful before and find a purpose for them.
Getchu some daemons, they'll be more of that but the bonus being you can play fantasy, killteam, and warcry without new models
We are gonna smacked around by space Marines.
They have a lot more “jump shoot jump” units that don’t require command points, but they’re mostly stuck with s4 weapons.
🤣🤣🤣
I'm thinking GW needs to give us some more new Tau Units/Models!!!!!!! Because we need some more Models and also to deal with these higher tougher models! And also updated / refreshed range as what's the point of special drones that come with some Models then!!!!
You want to deal with High toughness/high Wound models? Broadside suits and Pathfinders with Rail Rifles. Piranhas are also pretty good, if you can hit and wound with their fusion blaster at close range(melta 4) or using their 2 Seeker missiles.
I feel ya regarding the Tactical Drones & the Kroot Hounds. GW have definitely nerfed them/ radically changed how you're meant to use them now. I've played 3 games with them in the new mission deck from the Leviathan box, i.e. the thing GW wants everyone to use in Matched play now. Apologies in advance for the wall of text but I hope you'll find my ideas useful :)
All of those missions have secondary objectives that basically say "Throw a cheap ineffective squad onto a random part of the battlefield, force that squad to do nothing this turn except set up a Teleport Homer/ Investigate a Signal/ etc, etc. Do this over and over again because you keep drawing mission cards that tell you to do something like this, but each time you do it you'll get 5 victory Points"
If you're using Crisis Suits and Fire Warriors to complete these Secondary Objectives, then you're giving up a whole lot of Shooting, since units can't shoot while they do these objectives. In 9th Edition there were rules that said "you have to use INFANTRY units like Fire Warriors and Crisis Suits to do these objectives - you can't use Hounds and Drones to complete them ... ... ... but in 10th those rules are gone. Probably because GW realised how limiting that was/ how badly it effected all TAU armies - i.e. the only Army in the game that only wins by shooting. :)P
So for example, the 'Area Denial' mission should basically say "Throw 4 Kroot Hounds into the centre of the board, make sure your opponent doesn't have anything left in the centre of the board by the end of your turn, get 5 Victory Points." The Hounds having an OC of Zero and them being beasts doesn't prevent them from completing a Secondary Objective like it would have in 9th Edition. Having OC 0 only stops them from scoring 'Primary' points/ Holding 'Primary' Objectives. They can still score all secondary objectives.
The Hounds also get a pre-game 'scout' move of 9 inches, so they can reach the centre of the board very quickly. You can also hide them behind walls easily due to their low profile/ their models being low to the ground. You can Hide them behind a building in your deployment zone so your opponent can't see them, wait until you draw this Secondary Mission Card, then send 'em out.
Same thing with the 'Investigate Signals' Secondary Mission - it should basically say "Throw Units of Kroot Hounds &/or Tactical Drones into as many corners of the battlefield as you can, make them give up on shooting and fighting for the turn - score 2 Victory Points for each corner you control". Again, the Drones and Hounds being OC Zero doesn't prevent them from doing Secondary Missions, it only stops them doing Primary. Hide these units behind buildings until you draw this Mission card, keep them out of line of sight of the enemy until you draw this card, and keep moving them every turn from building to building toward the corners until you draw this card.
The best use for Drones? Wait until you draw the 'Deploy Teleport Homers' card. That Mission Card should basically say = "wait until turn 3/ turn 4 when your opponent's army has moved out of their deployment zone/ has been shot off the board by all of your guns, deepstrike 2 Units of Tactical Drones into your opponent's Deployment Zone, make those drones do nothing except deploy Teleport Homers for a turn, get 5 Victory Points."
The Tactical Drones have the Deepstrike Keyword for a reason. The Drones cost as much as they do 'because' they can Deep Strike/ because they have it built in. So use it :)P At this point we practically need them to score other Secondaries as well like 'Engage on All Fronts''/ do anything that doesn't rely on them Holding Primary Objectives but needs a unit that can pop onto the battlefield to score more Victory Points at any time.
At this point I've stopped seeing the Drones and Hounds as units that fight/ engage in battle. I see them as plucky little under-dogs running around a scary battlefield doing story related missions while guns and explosions go off all around them. I like to imagine the hounds as well trained police dogs with Go-Pro Cameras strapped to their heads and sensory equipment strapped to their backs. They're actually on a mission to look for wounded soldiers and sniff out bomb sites (just like real world earthquake rescue dogs and bomb disposal sniffer dogs). The Drones aren't actually Gun Drones at all - they're basically bomb disposal units, or maybe they're HAZOP radiation and chemical spill detectors. Or maybe they're, well, just mobile Teleport Homers. (Again, just like how drones are used in the real world today... except for the teleport homing thing of course... we haven't got there as a species yet :)P
Thank you for reading my TED talk - hope you found it useful :)P
Im new to 40k, joining with 10th and i really like the theme and aesthetics to T'au and could see myself building and army for them.
make sure the units work first. alot are useless atm
The way they done drones is abit dirty can’t lie
Feels like we lost a LOT of the fun stuff from 9e. Way to optimize the fun out of the faction.... again
For real, Tau got nerfed so hard. And eliminating drones is ridiculous, the variability and versatility of all the different drones was one of the most attractive things to me about getting into Tau... and now they're just gone
@@muffinhead9328 At least drones don't count for Blast/LOS anymore. After playing some more games it really feels like every weapon in the codex has been nerfed while shooting in every other faction stayed the same/got buffed. No Assault, reduced ranges/AP/Number of Shots. They really told Tau players "Do more with less"
Literally every opponent I've played was getting Sustained Hits 1/2 from the beginning of the game and I'm like....yall ain't gotta wait past when the game is usually over?
Really disappointed in the Pulse Rifles losing their AP -1... We had it for such a short time, feels rude to pull it out this quickly. And Carbines losing the Assault keyword just makes zero sense to me. Also, just feel like GW is pushing Breacher teams more than anything else for the Tau, why no love for the longer range Tau infantry??
There’s Almost NO assault weapons in this entire army. Really needing to look at things fresh.
I think it is to accomodate for the potential of +1 to Ballistic, Ignore Cover, Lethal Hits, and Sustained Hits2 that you can get.
If you have a Strike Team with Pulse Rifles and a Fireblade, that is kind of unholy damage potential right there.
I think Broadsides got a good number of buffs, with the drone changes you can get 10W each and the Rail rifle is pretty good for anti-tank
As someone who uses broadsides all the time I see this as an absolute win
Dont forget the the 4+ FNP as well built in
Your forgetting drones will be 20 + points 🤡
@@whackify Against Mortal Wounds only.
@@whackifyagainst MW yay its underwhelming
Would have been nice to get a defensive buff (+1 to save roll or -1 to hit for ennemies) turn 1 and 2 (to survive until turn 3) then get it replaced by the actual sustain hit Kauyon buff
I'm...less impressed than I would like, but there are still bright spots.
We can take multiple Commanders now, so Crisis Teams will still be a large part of armies. Fireblades look useful again, and the Stormsurge looks properly terrifying, even gaining a buff when targeting things its own size.
Ghostkeels look better, although it looks like the range definitely favors ion over fusion, and Stealth Suits getting a nudge to be spotters is nice, how I wanna play them anyways.
Droneports look surprisingly decent to deny area, and the amount of possible BS2+ has risen dramatically so I'm very happy.
I guess we'll just wait and see how it all shakes out
the ghostkeel is totl shit. 7 -1 2 for 200 pts. look t other codexes
@@folieadeux5463 What numbers are you using?
@@SarajevoKyoto Incorrect numbers, that's what.
Ghostkeel's Ion Raker is 6 shots at 4+BS 7S -2AP 2D and can be overcharged. The unit costs 170 points and comes with a bunch of other good stuff too.
The dude hyper focused on half of a gun's stat line to judge the entire unit's worth, and missed what made the unit good.
Guided unit gets plus 1 ballistic skill not to hit. So can add plus 1 to hit on top of it.
Tau-much planning to work as teams.
Blood angels-run in at full speed and wipe the board.
Tau variates between High risk High reward and Tactical camper. However, I did encounter a mixed combo, where overwhelming firepower was used as the bait for Hiigh callibre precise weaponry. Bait had just enough firepower to stand on it's own and draw attention to itself. That was a fun match
Nick yelling splitfire is the same energy as Cyril(archer) yelling covering fire
Tau are gonna need little flag poles connected by red string to plan out their shooting phase spotters, spotted and guided units
Hate how so many armies have built in shoot then move, but Tau, the OG's of it in 3rd ed, get relegated to a strat
Well I mean as the shooting army is makes sense that they also have to work to use rules to have some of there army equal the ballistic skill of some melee armies
It makes sense when you just accept they made the T'au intentionally bad
Well, most of the other armys that have Move-Shoot-Move have it on small not really deadly units. At least battlesuits are hard hitting and versatile so being able to protect them after shooting is valueable
@@t_jay5159 This. Crisis teams have the mobility to reduce enemy firing angles to a minimum(less return fire), and there are other Strategems that you can use to hinder or completely stop potential charges. A nearby Strike Team with a Fireblade on an Objective, using Overwatch(22 or 33 shots if within 15", hitting on a 4+) can potentiall kill a lot of would-be melee enemies.
don't underestimate our Broadsides, it is 2 shots at 60" S14, -4, d6+1 damage, sure beats our fusion now. Correction: S12
isn't it strength 12 not 14, the seeker array on the sky ray is strength 14 and that looks interesting for tank hunting.
@@555tork It is 12 but thats still damn good
@@memnarch129 it's a decent weapon i just hope that movement 5 wont hinder them too much.
its S12. beats rhinos just. no raider or ny other.
3 Ghostkeels 3 stealth suit teams, and shadowsun seems like a really fun combo. Re roll 1s to hit and wound on the ghostkeels. Also all our anti tank can hit on 2s now which is nice. Also Also kauyon is insane. Double exploding 6s is a HUGE power spike
Yup! As someone who got themselves a combat patrol recently I'm looking forward to playing that patrol as is against others
it's just feel like tau now become totally forced to become static turret army,
@@carval51 Soooo pretty much the way they played before 8th/9th??
Why 95's? XV8's have higher average wounding and can take a leader to augment them, which you can then leverage by doubling the size of the unit.
And what double exploding 6's? You mean the 2 extra hits? The problem with Kauyon is youre just covering the half your army that died in the first 2 turns, which your opponent is going to be able to dictate so if they know how your army works... its not enough to make a comeback, its really only enough to steal a win from a close game, which Tau generally never have.
@@memnarch129 I've started play 9th so I never know what 7th or before is like. but at least until codex we have no chance of doing melee which is possible before.
our range also nerfed alot, so I'm guessing no more crisis suit for now
Slight correction, the guided unit gets better BS value, so technically they can still be boosted by a +1 to hit. Stormsurge heavy weapons to hit on 2+? Thats nice! :)
Played against a buddy of mine and used a storm surge for the first time since I tried one in 8th edition, tabled him turn 3. Storm-surge is viable and I’m loving it
@@owensmith2995 imagine, this was only the first Kauyon Turn
Nick did a great overview of the Tau, but despite what the images showed, there was no talk of the Kroot. So, here's a Kroot breakdown to pair with the video from my experience as a longtime Kroot player:
So, the Kroot look pretty solid in 10th so far and I wanted to do a bit of a breakdown of everything we’re working with at the moment. I know points are out tomorrow, but I don’t imagine they are going to shift all that much. So this will be based on the assumption that their points will be relatively similar to what they were in 9th since they didn’t drastically change anything.
Overall Army:
Keywords (For the Greater Good): Sadly no FTGG for Kroot, while they aren't excluded from the rule itself, they don't have the Keyword on their Datacard. Hopefully Dal'Yth will give it to them when the codex drops.
Kauyon: It’s going to be interesting in the Kauyon only days for a little while. You want to get close for all the melee fun, but the only Detachment rule makes you want to stay at range. However, with Kroot being what they are, I think this puts us in a solid spot, we can play aggressive against shooting armies and cagier against melee ones.
Stratagems: Kroot come out quite on top in this department. We really only had three usable strats last edition: Grisly Feast (now baseline on all carnivores and slightly buffed), A Trap Well Laid, (now baseline Heroic Intervention), we loose the +1A, but get to fight at the same time as the charging unit, I’d say a solid trade, and Outflank which will probably come back as a Dal’Yth specific strat later.
With more baseline strats, we get a bit more to do. The new Grenades strat for usable by Carnivores and Farstalkers will be a great damage boost to hard targets and will likely be used a lot. Go to Ground will also be a great way to boost the survive ability of larger Kroot blobs (on most units, they are now -1 to be hit, +1sv, 6+ invul, and a 6+ FNP with a potentially 4+ FNP). Lastly, they get Point Blank Ambush from Kauyon enabling them to pick up a little bit of AP in the late game.
Now for the units:
Shapers:
Less of an auto include than I though they’d be when I learned how leaders work. They don’t add that much more firepower and only a bit more melee power. The increase of the FNP from 5+ to 4+ is nice, but really situational as you have to kill a unit in melee. They don’t even give the unit better LD, I was really hoping for a 6+ on the Shaper. The only Enhancement they can take so far is a +1 to hit and sometimes +1 to wound, not a big deal on their minimal attacks. Overall, sadly, really underwhelmed by the Shapers so far, hopefully they get more creative with them in the codex proper. The passive 6+ FNP for the unit is nice though, that's basically what you're paying for.
Carnivores:
The loss of Ap is an expected blow, but otherwise, they look stronger. Stealth making them a permanent -1 to be hit is great for their ranged survive ability and Grisley Feast being baseline is a nice situational buff. I think they’re in a good spot and there are also now between FTGG and Feast, there are real incentives to run them in 20 man blobs rather than MSU. The biggest blow here is that they did not get battleline, so even a dedicated Kroot list can only run at most 60 models. Which sadly means that there is currently no way to run a legal 2000 point all Kroot list, we've got to stick to 1000 point games for now.
Krootox Riders:
Again the loss of some AP was expected, but packmates is a really neat buff harkening back to the old rules of them all being all one big unit. Them having +1 to hit if they are within 6” of a carnivore unit (so pretty much all the time) is a great buff. Also, since you can never increase your hit roll past +1, they also make great spotters for your Carnivores if they ever do get FTGG from Day'Yth later on. So long as they don’t get a big points hike, I think these guys will be great in any list, even normal Tau lists would want them for cheap objective control.
Hounds:
Picking up stealth like the carnivores is a great buff if they can’t close right away. Their scout move is down from 12” to 9”, and with no longer re-rolling charges, having them close on something turn one is a lot less of a sure thing than it was last edition. They’ve also unsurprisingly been made OC:0 so no snagging backfield objectives for them anymore. No more grisly feast for them either which is sad as it was the main unit I used it on. They are +1 to wound now if they are near carnivores which is nice, but they’ve also lost their pip of AP like most Kroot. Overall, their strength has gone down considerably; however they were a very ubiquitous unit in 9th, so I’m not surprised they got hit pretty hard in the downgrade redesign.
Farstalkers:
The only unit that REALLY changed considerably in what they are and what they do, both positive and negative. The Kroot hounds that come with the kit are part of the unit now, so you’ve got to take a squad of 12, not sure how that will effect their points. Most of their weapons have been made baseline, so the shotgun, bow and sniper are all just guns now. It makes sense for the shotguns, but I’m sad to see the bow and the sniper go. At least we still have the tribalest and skinner to play with. While the tribalest did pick up anti-vehicle 4+, and while it did go down to D1, I think picking up devastating wounds was worth the trade off.
Where they are really going to shine though is as character assassins. While they don’t get full re-rolls against their bounty targets anymore, they do pick up both Lethal Hits and Precision against their target, making them a solid option to take out all but the most heavily armed characters. This of course can be make even better with the addition of the FTGG buffs if that becomes a thing later in Dal'Yth.
Without the Legends data sheets yet, there sadly isn’t anything else to talk about. So long as points remain close, I think that Kroot will still be reasonably strong on the tabletop. It will be very much a swarm the infantry and ignore the vehicles kind of play-style, but Kroot have pretty much always played like that, so I don’t think that’s too big a change there. I’m looking forward to the points reveal tomorrow and prepping everything for launch day. Another Krootsade may be in the works too. 😃
I think this is a good way to start up the Tau. I used to play Farsight Enclave in 9th and man was it fun, but with the style of 10th edition which is more points based Haaving an army that an take and hold positions with tremendous fire power should be interesting. Who better to castle up with than with Tau on 3rd battle round. Plus having Pathfinders spot for two untis. Death from a far. the only thing is know to think what teams will fit well to take objectives and help defend them. Booyah
Looks like FE squads buffed with ethereal for the CP and cadre flame blade in breachers may be good. The ghostkeel also got a glow up with the stealth drones. Odd these are the same units in the combat patrol.
Really disappointed in reduction in movement and gun ranges. This edition will not be crisis heavy as before.
2:22 pathfinders can be only assigned darkstrider as a leader and since he's an "epic hero" he cannot be given any enhacements, no lethal hits for anyone
he lost everything useful except he gained deny area for alot of points.
prevideo, my ideas are strong shooters in the back like broadsides and stormsurges, with Ghostkeel and stealth suits in deep to set up spotting for the shooters and be decoys, hoping to get as many shots as possible sent there way, a couple of fire teams for objective control, and a 6 squad of crisis units with a coldstar to wreak havoc or ready to deep strike wherever they are needed. Id really like my septs back so I can have my Melee Tau though
The spotter/observer rule seemed really cool and fun to potentially use with vespids
Fly into reserve then deep strike onto a building or back/sideline and get lethal hits no cover for your vespids
Unfortunately vespid can’t use it!
I personally feel particularly uninspired. The lack of much S10+ shooting, only 2 instances of the Anti-X keyword in the entire index (or low density of many of the other weapon keywords, for that matter), drones, low Toughness compared to other armies, few Assault weapons, and everything just feels like they kinda just...gave up trying after a certain point? Tau are my favorite army, will continue to be, and I'm not a doomsayer, but I just don't feel motivated by what I've seen.
Points are out tomorrow. Maybe Tau got cheaper.
Couldn’t agree with you more. They really needed to revamp the army to make me care at all. Seeing Space Marines get so much love and good quality changes and us get nothing just means I am sitting out another edition.
they at least managed to make turret ion cannons and ion accelarator strength max 8 so it cant take out the mildest armor in the game: the rhino. so now, a kroot is almost as strong as a turret on a tank. what the heck.. any other codex has proper anti tank ive checked. god dammit. like why didnt they update it, whyd they nerf it so hard
I've been playing Tau since the first codex, and am excited for 10th! Losing drones is sad, but I'm so looking forward for my mechanized infantry army with stealthy bois and battle suits in support!
My plan is to finally finish painting the lot before our codex actually comes out :P (only have like... 6 squads, 4 vehicles and 20 suits or so to do :P should be doable)
It seams to be a fairly dissapointing release. Lack of ways to activate those sustained hits semi consistently sucks and having to wait for it isn't fantastic either. Suppose pathfinder spam to guide multiple units to maximise guided units with a stealth suit frontline to use the -1 to hit to tank hits with a broadside/hammerhead backline waiting for turn 3 could work? Unless the points costs are low accross the board i don't see much success in the future sadly. Worst of all arguably is that entrenched gunline is likely going to be the order of the day as opposed to manuver warfare.
Nick, just wana say that is a fine looking Manta, it looks great, and while i'm just starting out in the table top I hope to one day play one of you guys. Hope ya have a great day, bro.
id love a video where nick explains tau for newbies like me, love his energy lol
You can kinda tell nick is not thrilled to see the direction tau have gone. But what I will say I'm glad tank's and monsters are tougher for infantry to kill. 9th eddition was usually a game of what units were just flat out better. 10th seems to have been made to actually force you have dedicated anti tank and anti infantry weaponry. No more everything proof guns. I might actually try 10th if I can paint up some models to replace the ones I lost from my car roof. The exorcist tank idls actually playable now soat least I have that.
...which is why limiting Tau's anti tank is especially harmful. If you don't want to give us "ANTI" keywords, at least leave the AP. But no... GW also removes all AP from the army, any keywords, and sets all weapons to average across the board...without any buffs to stats over the average infantry guns. For a shooting army that is supposed to be the pinnacle of tech, we were left with Super Soakers to take on tank-heavy lists because that's what GW are pushing. Oh, and you have to keep up with all those (arguably more than 10% nerfs) with the addition of at least a 10% increase in unit cost. Back to early 9th edition suck for Tau players. Guess I should start 3D printing a Sisters army...
I played a game against a buddy of mine , 1000 points, 2 squads of breachers each with a cadre fireblade, 2 devilfish, 1 stealth suit team, and a storm surge. Tabled him playing world eaters turn 3, both of us had a blast. Storm surge feels so much more reliable with 20w and the weapons it can take and being able to get it hitting on 2s
Farsight leading a unit can Tank Shock at strength 10... Lol it's a thing
I'm really excited to get some games in of the new Tau, been playing double of breachers with fireblades in devilfish since last edition so it's great to see how good they are now.
Sad to see the melee colstar go but we can hope that's only a temporary thing.
thats what everyone wants you to play. it doesnt seem too good, i didnt kill one knight and got tabled turn three.
@@folieadeux5463 From what I understand of how 10th is playing, getting tabled by turn 3 suggests impressively bad gameplay.
Can't wait for JT to make a comment about Nick's reluctance to split fire due to Greater Good rule!
But Nick! One of the enhancements for your army is Exemplar of Kayoun, which grants the detachment rule on turn 2! So you SHOULD still have a majority of your army to get those sustained hits one turn earlier
And you can take Longstrike in addition to 3 Hammerheads, so we have an extra railgun to use.
But only on ONE unit. The one it’s leading. Not your army
It feels like they have made good AoS-esque choices for the general rules, but the indexes are *extremely* weak in terms of balance.
Certainly I won’t be moving over until the six month / one year revised ‘indexes’ are out.
I can understand why some changes in 10th might be dissapppinting to some, but as someone who only consumes 40k content as a viewer, I can't wait to see how people adjust their army strats bases on the new strengths and weaknesses introduced.
Maybe GW is trying to say that T'au shouldn't be in combat at all now.... Sad face i loved running the that set up
My issue is Farsight seems underwhelming, he doesn't seem to be anything more than a "melee commander" but with the index as it is there isn't alot to work with him
Also since he can't equip drones isn't he squishier than the lesser Crisis suits he commands since they can gain a wound or two if needed.
While i'm new to WH40k i worry the faction will just get zergged down before getting a chance to bring the fury in the late game and it's star commander just doesn't seem to have the impact that he's fellow stars of the 'Arks of Omen' line seem to have.
GW looked directly at Nick and said, no more splitting fire for you
Stealth Suits and Pathfinders being spotters for my Snipers will be fun for flanking targets from a far range. Currently building a Coldstar to take charge with a Shadow Sun going for flanks.
I love your optimism Nick but as another T’au player I feel like they really nuked the feel of the army with this edition by taking away the drones and battlesuit systems. It’s a real shame.
yeah and the prototype system were so cool.. I'm for sure gonna miss my thermoneutronic..
@@TauEnjoyer I would expect things like that to come back into play when they get an codex + update, But this is just to kind of get everyone on as level a playing field as possible
Ya, they'll definitely get a lot in the codex, but the initial glance was really underwhelming
I completely agree. I’m just not liking the way they changed the Tau. I don’t expect the points to be friendly to Tau at all and would expect us to be at the bottom like we were in the beginning of 9th.
so far the worst things in my opinion are; shadowsun losing a point of toughness, losing 6" of range on fusion blasters and honestly it's frustrating that frag projectors and ion blasters can still be taken by crisis suits, losing assault keyword is also a bummer.
In his excitement I think he forgot Breacher Pulse Blasters are Str6, not 5.
You can almost feel the pain in his voice.
Theres a lot of choices for anti tank weapons. Broadside is insanely strong at destroying them, where with the right enhancement, on round 2, 1 broadside battlesuit (1 model) with the greater good feature and heavy rail rifle can one shot Astra Militarum tanks!
Played 10th yesterday with my Tau army, personally I’m not really impressed, the Stormsurge losing its deploy anchors got me big time. I agree with Nick’s statement about having a tough time taking out anti-tank models, I got absolutely wiped out from that. Will have to wait for all the rules to come out to properly gauge Tau’s playability.
thats bad in a vehicle meta.
Not happy about a lot of it.. the riptide is blah now… but ghostkeel and stormesurge look fun… and am I reading that correctly on the drone port? The drones can fire on EVERY eligible unit?! Granted BS 5+.. and nothing game breaking.. but still caught me by surprise..
Just sounds like the tau have been nerfed hard to see more of other factions this edition..
The hardest was the drones and the battlesuits
I'm happy to see mechanized T'au back. Fish of Fury time!
I thought the same, but the devilfish breacher combo has been really disappointing in my games. Overwatch means and them having to get so close means if your enemy has flamers or any volume of shots you’re screwed.
Put the puretide negram chip on a fireblade, then use the Coordinated to Engage strat on a group of pathfinders and on a strike/breach team that the fireblade is attached to. Minimum 4 units getting greater good bonus. Plus pathfinders and strike are markerlight so everyone is ignoring cover. I think it can be a killer combo
i rlly wish GW would bring back many of the aircraft units for Tau as in a vehicle based 10th edition it would really help in taking out big targets
Every one gets the engagement! This was a great report on a faction with mixed reviews, from what I've gleamed.
Regardless, Nick is my expert on Tau so I look forward to seeing more!
Assault being attached to cold star crisis suits fixes the entire suit issue. To the point i think there are over sights and under costs in the Tau indexs. changing to move 12, with a 6inch auto advance you just made all suit weapons into a massive alpha strike or counter hit in either case.
The biggest change for me is **Battlesuits are vehicles** now, I can't wait to use Tank Shock on Farsight and get 12 (on a 5+ up to 6) Mortal Wounds 😂
Also Big Guns Never tire going to be very fun now!!
Seeker missiles on Piranhas seem to be a nice cheap to deal dmg to high Toughness units
Tau have always been hard to balance. Depending on the edition, they either shred or sit on the shelf and watch every other army play.
No army is easy to balance, they all go through editions where they are unplayable competitively, but some armies get fun toys and rules added in updates, and some generally dont, Tau are the latter, and thats why they constantly feel underwhelming to play with.
@@canniballistic555the reason the tau are particularly difficult is they only get to shoot, if they outshot everything then they always win, but if other armies outshoot them then you have the opposite problem, to solve this they really just need to have drones or auxiliaries take a melee role in there army, and then balance around the idea that you are now able to play in multiple phases
The balance has always rested on Tau's ability to denying enemy charges while they do their thing. In 10th edition, you rely on strategems and transports, as well as actively removing any potential threat that could immediately counter attack. Nick is right about the Devilfish. Less than 100 points, but having 2 Seeker missiles, rapid deployment, decent close range fire power and surprisingly durable(and no "damaged" profile), my guess is it is going to be an important component in many armies.
@@fendelphi limited access to RRs make large weapons, especially one shot weapons, not that effective, and using the old fish of fury tactic is CP heavy and brings the efficiency of breachers down to the point other units are better.
@@canniballistic555 I dont really see it that way. Commander Shadowsun provides a "reroll to-hit rolls of 1" as an aura, meaning good positioning would allow multiple units reliable hits(and potentially more Sustained Hits and Lethal Hits for some units).
Hammerhead Tanks can add +1 to hit rolls if the target is a vehicle or monster and can reroll either one hit or wound roll each turn, which makes their railgun fairly reliable, especially if Shadowsun is nearby.
Can you imagine the damage of a Hammerhead Railgun with Sustained Hits 2, if it rolls a natural 6 on hits?
Also, if you dont want single shot weaponry, Tau has multiple options for the opposite as well.
A crisis team firing 70 missiles each turn, each with Sustained Hits2 and Lethal Hits.
For 95 points, the Devilfish can hold up a lot better than your infantry, and if not used to moving troops around, can be used to block enemy charges or line of sight. You can use either breachers or strike teams, since disembarking simply counts as "having moved". A fireblade with either squad and you will be looking at 33 shots at close range, with them potentially getting back into safety on the opponent's turn(potentially even out of charge range, depending on positioning).
I'm no tabletop player - just a spectator, but did they basically nerf the Tau? Or is it that every team is weaker?
Every team is a bit weaker. But we’ll see soon as people play games how weak it is.
@playontabletop bye bye shas’o kickasso. No more gauntlet
Sadly yes. Perhaps with the codex?
Feel like we kind of went back in time. Tau just feel boring now. We lost a lot of stuff that made us different and cool. Coldstar flying off the board gone, riptides charging their reactors gone, onager gauntlets, our special prototype weapons, special gear like baegel plate & solid image. Was drones annoying to deal with yes but that’s what drones do they protect the unit and take damage for them. I once had a shield drone tank an entire unit of fire to keep me on the point and win a game, I gave him a special paint job for that. Our big hammerhead guns are useless when an enemy can just roll an invuln for 1 shot. Idk man tau just ain’t it for me this edition. Maybe I’ll come back when the codex comes out but until then this army is a hard pass for me.
same. there is basically no thing to play with, and the guns suck. i dont want to say it, but its strictly true. ive played tau since primry school, i played them since release. its not thteverything is bad, something is decent but its not fun to me. i can shoot without opening my eyes now, and everyone has the same weapon, becuase only one is viable. cyclic and railgun. im out. its like plying age of sigmar with three skvads
So it feels that kauyon was definitely designed to mimic a trap being set, where you wanted to try and use a few key units to bait out mistakes and such, and just delay delay delay until your bonuses start on turn three, at which point volume of fire will be the name of the game.
I'm willing to guess that mont'ka, when it comes out, will probably give more aggressive strategems and bonuses as well, as I've noticed that the stategems now are more defensive and responsive rather than active and controlling.
I'll be playing them, i like gundams and such, so i have to play them.
The most consistent "fixes" I've seen across reddit, Facebook and a few forums are:
Detatchment Rule Kauyon-army gets Stealth for turns 1-2.
Bump Crisis Suits to T6 5W
-- Broadsides to T7
Give back Range and/or AP
Plasma Rifle add Rapid Fire and Devastating Wounds
Fusion add Anti-Vehicle 3-4
Missile Pods add Lethal Hits OR Blast
Burst Cannons add Sustained Hits 1
Really hope that GW is listening and making necessary changes to Tau to let them hit the Balance point GW is aiming for. Without some solid changes thats just not going to happen.
Something good coming out of this index is that hopefully a lot of bandwagoners will jump off and sell their armies nice and cheap for the faithful to scoop up.
I want to get into playing 40k and id really like to stary with T'au. Is there a starter box for them of some sort thats kind of like the ones from the beginner series videos?
Something i can open, build/paint and have an army ready for battle. Im assuming id have to buy whatever other books or rules separately?
Yes, you're looking for the Tau Combat Patrol box
@@io2409jvoernmlvruh thank you! That will come with info on the units/guns and all that fun stuff?
i cant believe the ion accelerator on the Riptide is s8.. overcharged.. like at that point what is even supposed to be the anti-tank of Tau? I think Ion, and others, needs a strength boost for sure
Pretty much just railguns it looks like.
stealth suits went from "okay" to "useless crap" :'D
But i think we overall got a pretty good setup here, a lot of units feel like they have a solid ground now
Disagree on stealth suits. The re-roll to wound as spotter is fantastic.
@@PlayOnTabletop Fair! I mostly meant the homing beacon became quite bad, since before i think you could override the deep strike rule to bring in crisis suits T1? unless i misunderstood it.
but yeah, slap a markerlight drone on those guys and they just became great spotters, I can agree on that.
Missile sides are twin linked now, they are pretty decent anti tank for our codex.
they are not decent anti tank just because you can reroll. you dont have any ap. you need 6s to wound most rhinos
@@folieadeux5463 wtf are you talking about, you literally have a minus 1 ap strat, your hammer heads own, your missile sides re roll wound and have extra ap
Piranha with 2 free seekers plus the only melta 4 fusion gun looks great at 55 points a model.
you will never get within 4". the person can move. its 12 range now. i deep striked, it didnt work
@@folieadeux5463 ? Piranhas dont have deep strike
Firing overwatch with sustained hits is very good
One of my best friends who is a diehard Tau player, is in full doomer mode about the breachers losing a single AP. Army is dead to him smh
Then it sounds like he really isn't a diehard Tau player.
ive played since first edition, ive played tau for 20 years. the problem is now only few units are useable. which makes boring army
@@folieadeux5463 where were you the entirety of 8th and 9th lmao
I don't know - I played breachers in a devilfish with a cadre fireblade fitted with through unity devastation and it was pretty effective at laughing people off objectives esp with the extra -AP stratagem for 1 AP
Thank you for another great video!
Hold your head high and march forward for the greater good (not to fast because Kauyon) my fellow Tau players!
The army rule is really good, very reminiscent of real-life marksmen.
Only being able to pick Kauyon is really annoying. I know the edition’s just started but I don’t think it’s too much to ask for more than just one at the start.
I also just think it was a really poor decision on GW’s part to pick Kauyon. Farsight JUST got a new model and they’re alienating basically everyone who bought it. I’m sure people who like Kauyon are having a great time rn but it just seems like a slap in the face from GW.
"Nobody knows what's the best thing"
Its eldar, we all know its eldar.
I believe a combo might rise: Darkstrider+Trough Unity, Devastation+Pathfinders -> Spot for two unit giving them Lethal Hits!!!
I think named characters cannot take enhancements, but I could be wrong
@@SarajevoKyotocorrect
I just think that Farsight Enclaves should become an independent army with their own codex
Interesting point, you can daisy chain FTGG units, so Unit A can Spot for B, then B shoots, then B Spots for C, C shoots and so on.
At least Ghostkeels won't collect dust on the shelf anymore.
IMHO, this update is a nerf to Tau overall. We'll see how it plays out--especially since we're supposedly getting new models and we're still missing the new rules for some of the other Tau units, but it's definitely a step down to an extent from where Tau was previously.
That is my impression as well :/
I think that it really highlights how limited the tau range is, 2 they should have a larger variety of options, give a exo armor frame heavy weapon teams, what is essentially an open truck with a few shield drones on it, or if they wanted to reuse the only major vehicle chassis they have, bring in the drone harbinger from dawn of war, it constantly makes drones as the battle goes on, giving you the abylit to give units new drones as the battle goes on, or small groups of drones, and ideally a new kind of drone, flamethrower drones, to electro stasis fields aka melee drones, sucide drones, or medic drones, as it's a major flavor fail that the tau army doesn't have pretty much anything in there army to help the wounded other then a single kill team release
GW has made it pretty clear. "Don't play Tau." I was resolved not to be salty about the leaks and spoilers but now that weve seen what we get to work with for the next year and a half? Ive been playing Tau since 4th and frankly this is the leas inspired ive seen them. Great effort keeping your chin up Nick but theres no point sugarcoting it. The index mathhammers out bad. The fact alone that we're relegated to an army thats impotent until turn 3 (assuming you roll 6s or even have models on the table to shoot with ) when you're reliant on luck to MAYBE squeek out an extra str5 0ap hit or two out of the 4 man firewarrior squad you have remaining after having been wiped off the table by orks who have our same ability excelt from turn 1.
I'm gonna continue to build my Tau in the background and hope that Codex or 11th improves them, but I won't be playing any games with this Index as it's just awful. Will have to run my CSM list until then 😮💨