The Falcon & The Winter Soldier isn’t essential but it could’ve been
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- Опубликовано: 20 авг 2024
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“the characters were more interesting than the plot they put them in” is a great way of summing this show up. i love the characters and what they set up as an arc for each one, but the “resolution” felt more like a fizzle out than a thought-provoking bang
I liked Falcon and The Winter Soldier, and absolutely loved WandaVision but I think the problem with both is they deliberately limit how many episodes they do. Like falcon and the winter solider is only 6 episodes??? But they spend a couple of the episodes really dragging parts of the plot out then rush through things in the last episode. They kind of did the same thing with WandaVision, but had a few more episodes to really dig into stuff. So yeah I think the main issue is the amount of time they’re giving themselves with the shows, a few more episodes and they probably could have dug into the themes and issues better.
I think Bucky and Sam's arc are the only essential viewing in this show, they needed to show why Sam deserves the mantle because in previous films he's just been a guy in the back character, this show shows why he deserves it, also Bucky has such a good arc in this that needed to be addressed, aside from that, it is a slightly above mediocre show I'd say
idk why disney ever thought it was a good idea to put such intricate storylines (as marvel always is) in 6 episodes as if that was nearly enough time to explore all 5 main plots (sam as cap, buck's ptsd, the power broker, john walker and the flag smashers) how they should be explored smh
They should’ve dedicated at least one whole episode for each of those themes. Then brought them back together at the end. Sharon’s part especially left me like...what?
@@ginime_ yeh, i feel that. for me the whole sharon sitch just felt like a set up for a future film/series and they kinda didn't know how to introduce it so they just shoved it in FATWS.
Yeah they should have made the flag smashers a generic terrorist threat that were essentially just a reason for everyone to band together, cut the power broker "mystery" and just had Sharon help them and reveal her as the power broker immediately (possibly even just to the audience if they don't want Sam and Bucky to know about it) then spent most of the time on Sam as Cap, with the two conflicts there being the racial side of it and the Walker situation, then have the Bucky ptsd as the B story. Plus add in one or two episodes, or make them 10-15 minutes longer, so they can actually explore some of the interesting plot points a bit more.
zemo breaking out of prison could have been SO much bigger
I would’ve loved to explore Zemo’s background more
Great summation, cheers Jack!
Thanks for watching babes
What an ambitious crossover
Dunno why, but it always brings me joy when 2 RUclipsrs that I'm subscribed to acknowledge each other's content when I thought that neither knew the other even existed.
get him on the poddo jameeeees!
Get Jack on the pod why don’t we?!?
Can't wait to watch your next video about the shrek trilogy
Um quadrilogy
I feel like Marvel have a great way of setting up incredibly interesting sub-plots (Bucky's PTSD, people coming back from the blip etc) and then rushing over them to make room for the main plotline, which in my opinion, is never as interesting.
I gotta say that I did really love this show despite the fact that it was ..."mediocre" in various aspects. I guess the most
strange but fun thing to see was, two marvel characters doing very ordinary things like fixing a boat. The "normalness" was kinda for me to watch.
Another thing I REALLY loved about the show was the part where we got to see Sam Wilson
training with the shield. Which we obviously never saw with Captain America. It emphasized the fact that
Sam was just a regular guy who decided to take on the mantle.
Broooooo that’s what I’m saying! I feel like most of the people saying the show was “mediocre” is mostly due to them not being hit as hard by some of the topics covered in the show. Like everyone wants more Bucky (ignoring the fact that the dude basically had two whole movies about his back story) I kinda get that but seeing Sam, a black guy who has a family and a boat and is from NO, was so cool to me as a black person. It meant a lot seeing Isiah’s pain and how it parallels the real feelings of those who fought for a country that hated them. Also I think it was really well done at that. It didn’t take over the overall story and it made a point without being corny. Which I also appreciate. I love Jacks takes but this show was a 9/10 for me. And most of the folks I talked to about it
I completely agree! i’m not sure the show needed the flag smashers at all, and if that hadn’t been a storyline all of the more interesting plots (isaiah bradley, john walker, zemo) would have had more screen time and been more developed. Loved the fact that they looked at Sams struggle with whether or not he should be cap, but needed to go further
Jack you summed up my thoughts perfectly wow especially the bucky parts, ugh why must Bucky continuously be underserved as a character
All my thoughts exactly! What bothered me is I loved the plot line of John going crazy but they “Danaerys-ed” him by making him go ‘mad’ for one episode, and then he’s redeemed in the next episode?! I want EVOLUTION plz
Yup, in general through this entire series it just felt like it was almost great but never quite got there. Like there was so much potential in the John Walker, Isaiah Bradley and Bucky therapy storylines that the show didn't manage to dive into. It was just trying to be so many things and tell so many stories at the same time that they all fell a bit flat. There were some great scenes and I did enjoy a lot of it but was always left with a bit of a disappointed aftertaste when each episode was over.
That’s a nice lamp in the background ngl
I hope people don’t skip it just because they’ll miss bucky smiling. But i agree, great review
Yes yes! I felt we never got time with Bucky, to sit and process what he’s going through.
I often try when I'm reviewing something to acknowledge how much creative work went into it whether I enjoyed it or not. Like it might not be the best thing you've ever seen but you know so much time and work went into it, so then it becomes impressive, if that makes sense.
Zemo on the whole felt like a missed opportunity, especially with his purple mask (which would've been a nice homage to Thanos' look if that was referenced, but instead it's used only one scene for... reasons? Hide his identity? What?). His character also didn't feel that consistent with the more calculating and down-to-earth portrayal in Civil War, I felt the aristocratic background detracted from his "everyman" villainy (he single-handedly split the Avengers apart compared to say Ultron with his drones or Loki with the Chitauri; a supposedly ordinary guy with military training who lost everything) - but suddenly he has all these resources? Why wasn't it mentioned in Civil War that he was part of a noble family?
Agree with all of it! I had all the same feelings about how they check listed the story. Another thing is that we dont get enough of a backstory on the flag smashers to make us want to understand their cause or feel for them more.
All the time I was watching it I was thinking the same thing, the story line felt like it was missing something. There were hints of a deeper story, but severely glossed over the entire way through. You put it perfectly, it felt like a checklist of a typical action movie/tv show.
The flag smashers were just so weird because it felt to me like Disney were scared that people would actually agree with their viewpoint, which I know I did, and so they had them kill people and blow stuff up for absolutely no reason just to cement them as the villains. It didn't make sense with the rest of their characterisation, and they definitely could've fleshed John walker or the power broker out more and not needed the flag smashers in the show at all!
I haven't finished your video yet but OH MY GOD I agree so much with you about the final scene with Bucky and Yori, like why was it SO RUSHED?? it could've been a really great scene but it just really didn't deliver
Omg i never thought about that passing comment you made at the beginning. Having a whole episode just on Zemo breaking out of prison would've been so cool.
Thank you. I agree with everything you said! ☺🙌🏼 I wanted more but they glossed over Bucky's last scene with his Japanese elderly friend and whether or not if he should want to be Capt with the black super soldier storyline.
i think one of my main problems with the show was that there were so many different storylines all trying to work together in such a short amount of time. and the ones i found the most interesting werent explored and developed as much as they shouldve been.
I agreed very much, especially with the choice of beverage.
Waiting for an in depth breakdown of the entire Shrek franchise...
I kept thinking that it needed MORE THERAPY and LESS FIGHTING
But he went to therapy once he should be fixed
I think the fact that I didn't remember the flag smashers name until you said it, and that I also don't remember what the main flag smasher person is called either, kinda shows that the whole series would've been better if it focused on sam struggling with becoming captain america as the main plot. I get that they wanted to have this "villain" where it's ambiguous if they're in the right or the wrong, but they could've done that as well if not better with the idea of a black super soldier being hidden from us, why he was hidden, who knew and didn't do anything like that's so much more interesting to me.
I feel like Isaiah was sidelined because at the end of the day the show is military propaganda.
I did like that they didn't let us sit in the moment with bucky because either doesn't matter if he was forgiven or not. His redemption isn't about that. That was just my take on it though
I saw someone on Tik ToK (I know we ignore theories since wandavision but hear it out) speak about why Bucky’s name didn’t change. It basically discusses that at the end of end game we see Sam get the shield and for viewers who don’t want the shows will now just see Sam as Captain America. So bucky’s story “technically” hasn’t changed because film people won’t know why and it’s will “ruin” it’s for them.
& unfortunately since realising this, it’s answers why so many plots didn’t have focus or get finished. I don’t agree and I think it’s lazy but I think they cared too much about casual fans.
I really enjoyed the show, but I'm glad I watched this because it's made me reflect on some of the stuff I just overlooked because I'm starved for marvel content. I think what they had in the show was great, but they needed to shift focus. More focus on Bucky's trauma, Sam's conflict about taking up the mantel, and more focus on John Walker as a villain and less on the flag smashes.
Great job on the oat milk, shame about the non recyclable paper cup......
YES! Finally someone who also thinks John Walker should’ve been the main villain. This show never allowed itself to breathe. It didn’t know what to focus on. We didn’t need the Flag-Smashers, we didn’t need Zemo, we didn’t need Sharon. All those things could’ve been really cool in another project where it wasn’t used as interjection of what should’ve been the main focus of the show. We were promised a buddy cop show about Sam and Bucky and that’s just not what this show is.
top video jack
Cheers bud :)
"avengers infinity war is the most ambitious crossover"
🤢
I believe the plot that they had to cut was very intertwined withthe flag smashers motivations, and I think that's why there's such a disconnect with them as relatable antagonists.
It's strange - I think it could have done more by doing less. There are just way too many themes here - where WandaVision focused just on the theme of dealing with guilt, this should have focused on either "blackness in the US", "global citizenship (ie refugee and who decides where people live)" OR "Not everyone is worthy to wield power". Also...that last monologue from Falcon...come on, man.
I have never said this about anything I've heard Jack Howard say before but: I completely agree with your take on this show, where it could have been and ultimately where it fell short.
Interesting thoughts, I definitely agree. However I did enjoy some elements of the flagsmashers, I think looking at the idea of post plauge prosperity and showing how it hurts vulnerable people when that goes away is definitely very interesting. I think it is maybe a plot that should have been explored more fully in a different show so we could really focus on Sam and Bucky's arcs in this one.
I actually never thought about how FATW is really not "Essential Viewing" Jack's right, the end of endgame, you can assume that Sam will take on the mantle of Captain America. They only brought up the conflict of whether he should, within the show.
Zemo, started in prison, and by the end of the show, ended up back in prison.
And Bucky, I feel was sidelined, they didn't change his name at the end of the show like "Captain America and the White Wolf" So he still hasn't fully abandoned the Winter Soldier persona which is his whole goal, meaning that'll probably be still to come.
While this show does have a lot of interesting ideas and I still really enjoyed it, I can see it being skipped in a future marathon by someone and not really miss anything important.
John Walker's introduction may be the only 'essential' viewing part of this, but depending on how to re-introduce him as US Agent in the next thing he shows up in, it may still not be all that important.
His hair is gaining its own gravity field and/or sentience
FatWS gave me a bunch of what I wanted from MCU projects, but could have used two more eps to better flesh out stories and themes. I really enjoyed seeing Sam and Bucky characterized further, though.
I totally agree. They could have done with maybe three or four more episodes. I want to know more about Sam's family, and Bucky's time in Wakanda!
I really hope they will go deeper into some of the topics they talked about in the show in the future show or movie. The whole show feels a bit like a preview of what might happen next.
I'm late here as I didn't watch Wanda or flacon til later and then forgot you made these but I made it and I wanted to say:
YOU may not exactly want this channel just to be marvel reviews but my god I hope you keep going cause you obviously love it and so do I, it's great to listen to your angle as a filmmaker. (yes, yes you are a filmmaker, say it loud and proud)
I completelyyyyyyyy agree and feel so vindicated, you essentially said verbatim all my thoughts whilst watching this show. ESPECIALLY the culmination of Bucky's arc, with the apology to Nakashima - that scene was so obviously cut down heaps for time and it completely ruined it, I so wanted to be able to sit in that moment and have a proper emotional, honest scene but instead it was like, so rushed and choppy and strange and frustrating.
Hot take: I was so so bored watching this after WandaVision. Just seemed like a really really long cap 4 movie, that somehow needed more scenes? But I fully agree and didn’t think about it before, focussing on the racial themes would have been so good!
This was 100% spot-on. I was really frustrated with the Flag Smashers storyline because they didn't feel like compelling villains, in fact I found myself being really annoyed whenever they were on screen. Their cause is not a bad one but their actions didn't feel like they led anywhere, it was just violence. John Walker was a much more compelling villain, especially the line where he told the senator "You made me!" At the very core of it, John Walker is pro-American imperialism and he is the product of US military propaganda and it worsens after he takes the super soldier serum. That contrast with everything Captain America/Steve Rogers and Sam Wilson stand for makes for a much better conflict than the Flag Smashers. And again, you got it totally right with the Isaiah Bradley storyline, which deserved more screen time, but I was pretty happy with the way they addressed it with the dialogue between Sam and Isaiah in the finale. Lastly, I was quite satisfied with the coverage they had been giving Bucky's recovery up until the finale, where again like you said, the scene where he confesses to killing his friend's son should have been longer and deeper. That scene needed more closure. I think there was a lot of potential in TFATWS but somewhere along the way, they lost it with the execution.
Many of the characters we've seen in this series have had very little in terms of actual appearance in the comics - in fact, Isaiah in particular only ever turned up in ONE comic (Truth: Red, White and Black), and he only ever met Sam Wilson in passing. He was definitely not involved character-wise on how Sam became Captain America.
It really does boil down to:
1- The show needed more time (10 episodes instead of 6) it felt rushed and most character progress seemed to happen off-screen.
2- Focus on Sam Wilson, the Lead of this show, his past, his family, his journey...
The villains (or Karli mainly) were only interesting when interacting with Sam.
I just hope Anthony Mackie knows none of the show's criticism reflect on him, he was Amazing, did so much of what very little he was given.
I think it starts a bit slow considering how few episodes there were, I enjoyed the more realistic side of the characters seeing their lives when there's no big bad etc. seeing what a good soldier as Captain America became compared to a good man, echoing back to first avenger & then the "animal farm" syndrome of the flag smashers going from freedom fighters, where you understand where they're coming from but not understanding the repercussions of their actions resulting in them becoming essentially terrorists, I am quite interested to see what happens with USAgent and who and what avengers will be assembling in the future
I pretty much agree with everything you said BUT I have to say I still really enjoyed it, mostly because I liked spending time with these characters and I really liked a fair bit of the soundtrack. I'd happily watch a 'Sam & Bucky hanging out down in Louisiana' so I acknowledge I'm (as usual) not thinking in a critical manner.
YES! This is exactly how I felt watching the show, and it's so nice to have someone put it into words.
agree entirely, I don’t think there were enough episodes to give important storylines a chance - also felt like there was a lot lacking for Bucky. Is a shame as it was an easy way to make Sam cap and get him set up for new films but would have been great for the show to be it’s own thing and get marvel into the deeper storylines outside of the superhero stuff.
yes!! this is exactly it, I really think the simpler would’ve been the better - we didn’t need 6+ underdeveloped ‘villains’ that didn’t really get any pay off or arc. Sticking with just john walker, the Isaiah storyline and maybe karli/flag smashers would’ve been so much cleaner and would’ve left more room for the little moments of character development that we were missing (like bucky and yuri etc) It really felt like bucky and sam were just observing what was happening around them and dealing with conflict as it happened and then moving on straight away. Would’ve also liked to have seen maybe some sort of flashback type moments to get to know sam and bucky more as well, like sam’s past before meeting steve, bucky in wakanda, etc etc
100% agree, you definitely expressed my feelings way better than I could have hahah, it could have been so much more!
Hey Jack, this is totally unrelated - but please please please can you do a film review for Sound of Metal. My favourite film of the year so far and I would love to hear what you thought about the Sound Design x
That pretty much sums up my feelings, a lot of interesting plotlines, interesting characters, but no follow-through or earned gratification.
It will probably become essential for when us agent and Madame hydra comes more into the storyline and we use this as to know their introduction but yeah for now it’s not really essential
I think you just summed up everything I've been wanting to say nicely. I loved the show for the characters but the plots were not executed well. And about how it's marvel and we shouldn't expect something deep, that's all well and good if they didn't introduce deep themes in the first place. I wasn't expecting it but it's really frustrating when you get a really cool theme being explored only to fizzle out in the end.
See you soon when Loki's done airing! x
I think it was good. I liked it
I really agree with what you said about the plot kind of just being tick boxes.
I loved wandavision so much that this felt like a let down.
Apart from the heavier moments with Isiah not feeling big enough throughout I did love the light moments of Bucky and Sam hanging out fixing the boat, etc. I'd now like a buddy road movie type thing with the two of them because their chemistry was so great.
Okay so the show starts with Sam giving away the sheild because he doesn't feel worthy or it doesn't feel appropriate to him but like for me there was no moment of revelation for him where he changes his mind on this. Like he has a conversation with Isaiah where he's basically told that it's not appropriate, and then he starts training with the sheild when he's at home like I felt that there should've been a moment where he realised that he could do good by becoming captain America, that he was right for the job but either I missed it or else it all happened in his head while he was working on the boat I don't know. I think that him and bucky winning the sheild off John walker should've maybe been saved as part of a climatic battle in the finale
I largely agree with your take. A lot of missed promise. Potentially deep themes that whose treatment remained superficial. But I appreciate your taking a moment to acknowledge how damn hard it is to get anything of this scale scripted and made.
-especially in a corporate environment when you are dealing with valuable intellectual property and brands.... in a pandemic, to boot.
The two most interesting characters John Walker and Isaiah Bradley, but as presented, they are simply hints of the stories and themes they might have been. In episode 1, I found myself puzzled by the scene in the bank where Sam and his sister are turned down for a loan. Now it's clear that it's a set-up for the major theme of superheroing while Black.
It seems that that major reason we don't understand what is driving Karli and the Flag Smashers is that we're never given any clear picture of the political economy of the blip or the return.
It's a fascinating question: What do you think would happen if half the people on earth simply dematerialized-and came back? We're given a few glimpses in Endgame, Spider-Man: Far from Home, and WandaVision but we never get the whole story. Filling that out is surely beyond the scope of a Disney+ series... but without knowing what happened, we have no appreciation of the wrongs the Flag Smashers are trying to redress.
Bang on review. I agree with most of what you said. I also struggle when shows or movies try to have competing villains? Like why? Just focus on developing one good villain (or team of villains).
Oh wow you put everything into words! It really did feel like a checklist they were going through
This is interesting bc watching it I really loved the show; I love the characters, and some of the conflicts and moments and storylines. But Jack I feel like you articulated really well how I was left feeling not-quite-fulfilled. There are a lot of strands to fatws and diving deeper into fewer of those strands might've reduced that rushed feeling. (Or maybe more episodes would've worked better as a way of slowing it down? But I imagine there are other practical barriers with that)
The show needed to be more subtle in addressing the themes, but at the same time, I get why they needed to be overt so there was no confusion of the message.
i agree with all of these points, jack! i wish this show had come LONG after wandavision. marvel would've had time to realize that their biggest successes come when they break their own formula, and they could have had the courage to take the nuanced internal conflicts (like civil war) and the non-actiony character drama (like the first half of endgame) and let them be the whole plot. the flagsmasher storyline (with the exception of sam's "don't call them terrorists" speech in the finale) was a sort of an unnecessary backdrop for those things that then took over most of the screentime. love all your points and loved the tidbit about wyatt russell auditioning for cap!!!
Jack Howard, the only way I consume disney+ content
i totally agree, the show is great but in the end i felt like everything was kinda superficial and it never adressed important things that happened, i got a little disapponted by it
I’m enjoying the longer Beetles hair
ABSOLUTELY AGREE. After Wandavision I was quite excited to see what they would do - and honestly, I was also ready for more of a deep dive into Sam's and Bucky's story that would make me fall in love with them as characters more. Out of the huge group of Marvel characters they always were a bit "meh" for me. I'm a bit disappointed that after all these episodes my opinion hasn't changed much. The backstory with the sister and the therapy and all that stuff was heartwarming, but I still can't really connect after all those episodes. Might be more a me-problem, but Wandavision brought me so much closer to the characters than this show did...
My biggest problem with the show - and I was a bit excited when you said it in the video - it wasn't necessary to watch the show. I don't mind it being mediocre because it was entertaining most of the time, but I expected it to be more "essential", as you put it and take something from it that I didn't see in the movies.
Either way, great review!
"The characters are more interesting than the plot they put them in" whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiich is why marvel fanfiction is so prolific lmao and most marvel products end up feeling so underwhelming, I really wished they trusted the characters themselves to carry their stories, which they 100% can (that's why Logan was SUCH A GOOD MOVIE btw).
You voiced my thoughts on the show perfectly! The way Sam was sidelined for half of the show and often times used as a plot device was so bizarre, but I think they did a satisfying end of arc in the sixth episode (he's literally the only part that's working on that finale), and on the other end of the spectrum you have Bucky whose arc was really well done throughout the show but tthey dropped the ball in the last possible minute? I don't think the writers knew how to balance all they were juggling and that's why some scenes as units land well and others are aaaaa mess and feel very disconnected from each other. Frustration at the MCU hello my old friend. At least Sam and Bucky end up eating cake in Louisiana as they should.
You know what I half agree with this review. I think that the use of politic issues isn't the best for me r cinema as, for an example being me, I enjoy cinema to leave this world behind and not face an issues, but the idea of the secret black super soldier enjoyed me as he didn't feel necessary and only shoved in. If we was a important turning point then it would of been more interesting for the story. The best part about this show though was John walker as it was obvious that he was gonna turn evil but knowing that wyatt Russell played him and getting death threats but still playing him was fun to watch.
What were your thoughts on what they did with Zemo?
I thought it was odd and wasn’t a fan. I know I’m a party pooper.
Love your videos jack but I was wondering where jack and dean went
I agree with the fact that a lot of this was rushed and so much of it could have been developed more but I actually disagree with the essential viewing perspective. I think the point of making the TV shows rather than these stories into movies is that they aren't essential viewing and you can pick up from one movie to the next. Not every Marvel fan has Disney+ and probably not every fan will want to watch the TV shows (e.g Agents of Shield) and therefore they kind of having to make the shows skippable and focus more on characters rather than plot to a certain extent. Because of this I kind of think the show did well with that limitation. I do agree with many of the other criticisms and I would have liked to see more depth of all of the characters though!
I loved the show, it was the first thing I have seen which I felt had aspects i could relate to in regards to my race, but I can understand how those nuances the were interwoven into the show could be missed. For me the importance of portraying how difficult it would be to be a black man becoming CA was the thread that connected each of the episodes in the show. I 100% felt let down by the arc of John Walker but I am hoping that the show is part of the development of his character and how he will constantly be on the edge of right and wrong. What I love about and why I'm glad it exists is because when i have children and i force them to watch all of the MCU they will be able to see themselves, in sam, his nephews and his sister, they are no longer side characters or the best friend which they will see in the majority of the films. I am no TV critic, I love most things but this show has a special place in my heart, not for the plot but for what it represents to me and to many. (I do not speak for all people of colour I imagine there are many people who are black who would totally disagree with me)
No I agree!!🙋🏾I 100% totally agree! You said all the things I was thinking watching this video! It meant so much to me seeing this show! I thought the topics were very well done. And the script was 10/10! I think anything we were not satisfied in reference to John Walker and Bucky will be answered in later films or shows. But this whole series was a win IMO!
I love that I have even seen the Falcon and the winter solider and all I saw was picture of John Walker with shield and I instantly hated him
john walker would've made for a GREAT marvel villain!! he seemed like a much more compelling villain than karli. even by the last episode i was sort of let down that walker got his "redemption". i feel like falcon and winter soldier had the same issue as wandavision wherein they had too many plot points/new characters and they never fully focused on the really interesting plots and already established characters. i feel like as far as villains go, karli's plot was not needed in the same way that the sword director's plot in wandavision was not needed.
Its cuz kevin feige did say people arent missing out if they dont have disney+ and it seems like the shows are suffering bc of that promise
I know it's a vaguely stereotypical "solution" to when a TV show has issues, but I do think it would have been helped with a few extra episodes. There were moments where I was enjoying myself so much. It included things that I really wanted Marvel to do, but didn't think they would go for as a Disney production, but then it didn't expand on it enough. Still enjoyed it overall, just wished there was a bit more of it's more 'political' aspects at times.
Here I was thinking I was the only one who felt some type of way about the show, but...great mind's think alike, Jack!
I loved John Walker as the villain (his glossed over mini redemption in the last ep was bizarre) and although I would've loved more Isaiah Bradley and exploration of what it meant for a Black man to be taking up the position of Cap, and more on Bucky's healing from trauma, I think they covered just about enough. Ultimately it was a choice to make the central conflict be about the camps and Flag Smashers which leaves me wondering why they didn't do it well? I follow plotlines really well and am honestly not the type to get confused or forget details but I truly could not tell you what the conflict between the GRC and Flag Smashers was specifically about, beyond disagreement about resettlement camps, which left me struggling to root for any side really.
Maybe I missed something and that hindered my understanding but I had all sorts of questions like who are the camp dwellers exactly/what does "displaced after the blip" actually mean? I originally took it to mean they were part of the returned but that didn't fully make sense? What exactly are the GRC voting on? Did the Flag Smashers want to close the camps or have GRC provide more funding? I understood we were meant to sympathise in part with Karli and I did bc the emotion was still conveyed but had there been just a few more scenes early on that more clearly explained the state of the world/positions of the GRC vs FS, it would've been a much more powerful storyline on vulnerable migrants IMO. Anyone else have thoughts on this storyline? Was I just dumb and missed something?
I think you missed a lot. The basic situation is when half the population disappeared, countries relaxed their borders and allowed open travel since we now had half the amount of people to run the world. Also, homelessness and world hunger was basically eliminated and people were working together since the world experienced a uniting trauma. 5 years passed, and then people came back. The GRC’s goal was to push all the people that moved during those 5 years back to their own countries to allow the blipped people to reclaim their lost property. They were building camps because, now that everyone is back, homelessness and hunger is back, and it would be unethical to kick everyone back and leave them with nothing, but they are still basically trying to erase what happened in the past 5 years, treating the blipped better than the immigrants.
@@zackeryh250 I did eventually clock onto who the camp-dwellers were, but I really don't think it was explicit enough, nor was the exact content of the GRC vote, nor was the specific Flag-Smasher goal (beyond protesting the existence of the camps in general)
When he talks about the storyline that needed to be cut out because it was too close to the real situation, capital T, capital S.
What is he referring to?
The... pandemic?
Was ’t Bucky wronged Laertes? Never Bucky
If Bucky from himself be ta’en away,
And when he’s not himself does wrong Laertes,
Then Bucky does it not; Bucky denies it.
Who does it, then? His madness. If ’t be so,
Bucky is of the faction that is wronged;
His madness is poor Bucky’s enemy
It's so frustrating to watch the end of marvel series even in films the cut amazing parts out and just to a give joy fest at the end
I definitely feel that the first 3 episodes or so felt right, they were difficult thematically but well paced and things arent rushed. As a white man it genuinely felt hard to watch at points because I had to internalise and process a lot of the heavy points on race that cross into the real world so well. Then I remember the scene in either ep4 or 5 where they had a scene shot during golden hour outside and Bucky was like "Oh sorry man that mustve been really hard" "yes thank you it was hard" "now you are captain america" (paraphrasing but it felt that out of place to watch). I assumed during the scene it was some kind of dream scene or hypothetical scene that we were never supposed to think was really happening because it felt so brushed over.
Totally agree!! I liked it but it left me feeling a bit empty whereas the sheer creativity of Wandavision left me in awe, reeling etc etc. I think when they decided to do the buddy team up it hamstrung the writers in terms of the stories they could do since Bucky and Sam really deserve their own stories. Bucky particularly has a wealth of backstory and resonance to be explored for 6 eps! It just felt like neither character was done any justice, which sucks. Hope they stay a major part of the MCU in the future, because this show only really scratched the surface.
for some reason(s) i feel like it could possibly have worked better as a movie...
Finally! Someone said it. I felt that a lot of fans loved the show for the characters and overlooked the quality of the content. It was messy and badly executed. With such complex, important issues, I do wonder why they chose to highlight the storylines they did and not explain some of the motivations of the villains. Overall, badly executed, wasn’t essential to the whole for the MCU. Had potential, but they blew it. The same creators for Cap 4 too - hoping that will be better.
As a black person, I think I was surprise they even try to show us that stuff. Maybe more would have been better. But it was marvel thing, I wasn't looking for that, I was just rooting more for those character, discovers another par part of that super hero world, a bit more relatable ... and then, in a fucking marvel show, they tried. And even if they failed a bit, they tried. I think I almost cried at the police scene, when they tried to arrest him and Bucky is like "yeah just show your paper" like this is normal. Because it was there, on the screen. And seeing it recognize like that, in this mcu that i love, well that means a lot.
I liked the show but my issue was that if you are someone who will watch the movies and not the shows,, you'll still catch up fairly quickly to what's going on. Like you ended Endgame with Falcon getting the shield and the next movie he will (Presumably still) be Captain America. The only new information we have is about Sharon and John Walker. And at that, we still no very little about them so that will surely be fleshed out in later series/movies.
I think what I'm saying is that it needed 10 episodes rather then 6 because I think with the characters and what they all dealt with from race, to mental health, to sudden character arcs, It all was very quick and shallow. Whereas Wandavision's story felt neatly wrapped up and ready to move on, and like it could have effects on possible future storylines.
Really looking forward to seeing what they do with Loki as WandaVision and TFATWS feel like very different shows so it'll be interesting to see what direction it goes.
No yeah I'd have to agree. During the show It was great. Personally loved the Sam-Bucky Banter experience, but after watching, there are so many things that were side-lined or skipped over and so many missed opportunities for huge development. Still a good show, but not as on par with other marvel content.
really loved your analysis! thank you for your hard work :) you're always a pleasure to listen to
I think that the feeling you had about the dissonance between the ideas the show introduced and the ideas the show went through with is an overall problem that kind of plagues superhero-dom in general and Marvel in particular. It felt really overt in TFATWS and I think it might be because it was the time they introduced the most interesting ideas and then brushed them aside the most vigorously, and so it acted kind of like a deal breaker or a wake up call. I genuinely enjoyed Falcon and The Winter Soldier and WandaVision, and am enjoying Loki which was not out at the time of this video, but I feel like there’s something/someone, either in Marvel or more broadly in The House of The Mouse™️, that are willing to have these stories and introduce these ideas, as long as they don’t go too far and as long as they can end in a big superhero movie bang, even if that ending strays away from what the themes and the pacing of the rest of the content were.
However, I wasn’t aware of the rumors of the cancelled plot points, and, as much as I know I shouldn’t, it definitely makes me look more fondly towards what the show managed to be. Props to everyone involved.
This show definitely could have been more than it was, but I mostly enjoyed watching it. Anthony Mackie and Sebastian Stan were really fun to watch and Karli was an interesting antagonist to me. I couldn't decide if I found Julia Louis Dreyfus' character annoying or not though.
Totally agree on most of the stuff jack says here.
Only wanna add: Some Visuals in the show were dissapointing.