Would love to hear what you guys think! Think I was wrong in ruling who won? Is there someone else who should be on this list that I missed? Which draft should I cover next? Let me know! Also - would you guys be interested in seeing the "reaches" and "steals" of rounds after the 1st and 2nd? This video and the last one only cover the NFL 1st and 2nd rounders / the consensus 1st and 2nd rounders. I'd be interested in looking into the guys past those rounds, but there may be some obscure names. Please let me know!
Draft analysts will say that certain positions take longer to develop and I think Tavai is a great example. Even if he is for real and ends up panning out it is for his second team. Even if he's a hall of famer the pick is still bad because the Lions wasted a 2nd round pick instead of a 5th round. I think that's why you rarely see linebackers with 1st round grades. Anyway great job as always. Love the videos!
Thank you so much, I appreciate that! I agree, LB is definitely one of the positions that takes the longest to develop. It makes sense considering how modern offenses are specifically designed to attack them and put them in conflict, so it’s such a steep learning curve from college to the NFL. OL are notoriously difficult to develop as well! Also agree that, from the Lion’s perspective, the pick is definitely bad- especially when they gave up on him so early in his career. In the future though, I’m going to be grading just based off whether the player met their expectations, regardless of whether it is for the team that drafted them or another team- I think that way it helps to gauge whether the consensus or NFL was right on their overall projection for their career value. Thank you for watching and supporting the channel!
I tend to disagree that because a player succeeds with his second team, the original draft selection wasn't worth it. The Lions identified that Tavai had second round potential and then failed to get the best out of him. His play in New England justified the original Lion's evaluation and scouting. I think identifying talent in the draft and developing said talent are two distinct things. I guarantee the Lion's scout who graded Tavai's potential is putting that feather in is cap watching him succeed in the NFL. But from a fan's perspective, I get you would want a player drafted to your team to work out for your team. Success for another team doesn't change your team's failure.
@@Manchu504 Agreed on both fronts! Definitely sticking to going off the totality of a player's career rather than grading solely off how they did for their drafting team - the idea being that we're trying to gauge whether the evaluation of the player was correct at all.
Neither did I! Its kinda funny because I remember hearing how well he played in 2022, but didn't really hear anyone talk about him in 2023, despite him having an even better season.
@@TheJumboPackagelet’s be real though, only 2/3 of that team were bums. That defense has remained legit throughout all the offensive woes. That makes Tavai’s impact more impressive considering that unit was borderline elite overall.
@@MasNosral Fair! The defensive unit has definitely been much better than the offensive unit and he for sure has been a key piece in the defense playing well.
Interestingly enough, he was actually only a 7 spot reach from the consensus board (ranked at #24, taken at #17). For that reason, I left him out. But you're right, with the backlash from the pick, I definitely could've put him on here and most likely should have. We do definitely know who won that one - the NFL. Lawrence has been the best true NT in the NFL for several years now and one of the best IDL in general. Its unbelievable how good he is for playing a position that generally is tasked w/doing things that don't show up in the stat sheet.
Eh, there was a lot of hype around that Clemson DL. Dexter Lawrence, Christian Wilkins, and Clelin Ferrell were all viewed as first round picks. Ferrell was viewed as a late 1st, where Lawrence and Wilkins were more mid-1st players. I think the backlash for big blue was more about them not holding onto good IDL previously, and that pick not moving the needle for the team since they took a position that more often than not was a strength in the last few years, and replacing it with a strength.
Thank you! and I do - My last video was going over the fallers / steals of the 2019 draft and, for the past 2 years, I've been documenting the biggest reaches & fallers in each draft at the time the draft took place and discussing the reasons why they fell or may have been a reach. More content like this will also be coming, so stay tuned!
Banger vid bro keep it uppp!! These last 2 videos have been amazing watches dude. You could definitely carve out some space for you in the NFL youtube world with this kinda content.
tbf Jahlani Tavais coverage grade is boosted by the Pats system which has the safeties (dugger, peppers, couple years ago phillips) playing cover linebacker - it makes his job extremely easy.
Thats very fair! Thats why its very important to watch the tape because even advanced metrics aren't perfect. But he definitely is an improved player from his Detroit days and he does have a skillset that makes him a very good player in the role that NE has him playing.
Giants fan here, we’re not mad. We know. DJ did exactly what was needed of him in his 2022 contract year and with hindsight that one playoff win probably set the franchise back 4 years. True professional guy though. Wish him the best. Clearly not worth a top 10 pick or massive extension.
Great perspective! and I agree. Hopefully he proves me wrong, for his sake and the sake of Giants fans, but at this point I don't believe he was worth the #6 overall pick.
I love the deep dives though, please keep going. I just think it's rare someone's hunch is right on a player when everyone else has a different opinion.
Definitely will keep going with the deep dives! I think if anything, the past 2 videos show that, if a team is much higher on a player then consensus, they’re most likely wrong, but if they’re much lower on a player than consensus, they are most likely right - usually because they have access to more information that consensus doesn’t know that would lower the player’s consensus draft stock if they did know (e.g., medicals, personality information, etc.). That is an over generalization and there are exceptions, but that is what I’ve taken away from reviewing this one draft. I’m curious to see if that theory holds when reviewing other drafts.
If Daniel Jones was a late first or honestly a second rounder he would look great and no one would complain. But given the chance to draft Josh Allen and Lamar the year before and his top 20 at most potential was a disasterous decision by the giants. It has screwed an elite coaching hire and wasted giants fans lives for 6+ years.
I completely agree. I don't think he is awful by any means, but hes just simply not worth #6 overall and wasn't worth holding onto him at the contract number they gave him.
Bucs fan here, the biggest thing for me with Murphy-Bunting was the role he played. When he was in the nickel he was having much more consistent success, creating turnovers and making clutch plays at the line of scrimmage, but do to injuries would regularly be put on the perimeter where he struggled the most. As an outside corner he wasn't ever strong enough to compete at the catch point with bigger bodies an wasn't fast enough to play downfield with speedsters. Average would be an accurate assumption for him, as nickel corners play about half of the snaps perimeter corners play, but that was where he excelled. Appreciate him none the less for his role in the SB tho!
I'll give credit where it is due, he looks much better this season! He's been a little up and down (e.g., the Cowboys game he couldn't hit a deep ball and then this most recent game he was excellent throwing the deep ball), but I think overall he's been more impressive this season!
@@TheJumboPackage I wouldnt qualify jones as a bust, as he has turned into an upper tier mid game manager. He'll probably have a decently long career as a placeholder QB for teams waiting on thier QB of the future. That said as far as him being a Franchise guy? yeah obviously not, but Between him being such a reach and him devloping into a decent but not great QB I wouldn't classify that as a bust.
@@Irishmex1398 Agreed! I wouldn't qualify him as a bust either. He isn't a complete zero at the position - He definitely makes some nice throws at times and he can add to the game w/his legs - I think he'd be a good bridge QB for teams too, so I'd disagree w/the OP that he is a bust. But I would agree w/the OP that he was definitely not worth the #6 pick.
The thing about DJ was he had the tools to succeed but Judge and Garrett made him scared to the throw the ball was a huge difference between Rookie jones and Judge era jones. Daboll came and did the best he could with Daniel but the damage has been done he’s a fringe starter high end backup he can get the job done but he doesn’t elevate
Interesting point, which I think is backed up by what the metrics show. He has a good arm and was willing to push the ball down the field much more, but struggled with turnovers early in his career. I imagine this made Judge and Garrett condition him to stop turning over the ball so much, especially because they both come from that line of coaches which is much more about ball control & slow, methodical offense, while protecting the ball. I wouldn't be surprised if you were right, but ultimately its hard to say because we can't see the alternate timeline where DJ gets a coach earlier in his career that allows him to come in, sling it, make mistakes, and learn from those mistakes while being comfortable with his play style.
It's a defensive draft like this one that really started to show some holes in Pete Carroll's eye for talent acquisition. At least on defense since we got DK Metcalf. In drafting, he and Schneider still hit on some players, but he was getting really bad. Now, unlike the 2018 draft, it wasn't some miss at the position where a better player went shortly after our pick at that position. For example, DE we made a miss with Collier, but the next available pro-bowler wasn't picked until the 4th round. And the miss on Marquise Blair? Next best DB was a man who would eventually replace Blair, Julian Love, also in the 4th round. The real miss was the Seahawks trading down from 21, where they could have gotten Montez Sweat, but also both of the picks they got from the Packers there included picks they traded further back with and then forwards to get DK Metcalf. So best we could have done is reached for guys that went in the 4th round or ultimately missed out on one of the biggest names for the Seahawks today.
I definitely agree with the point that it was a major negative to trade out of 21 - Sweat would have made a huge impact on that defense! I would disagree slightly on the point about the pro-bowlers, because that argument assumes that they couldn't have drafted any other position. It is true that the next pro-bowl DE was taken in round 4, but there were still 10 pro bowlers (not including DK metcalf) drafted in between Collier and Maxx Crosby. This is why its always really important for a team to try and make sure they have no huge holes in their team before the draft, so they're not stuck to taking one position! That doesn't necessarily mean they would have taken any of those 10 players, but who knows what they would have done if they took their BPA (assuming Collier wasn't just their BPA). But I do get your overall point though, especially looking at the players in that range. There aren't that many names that would've been huge impacts for them. Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@TheJumboPackage Oh I meant at that position between Collier and Crosby, which clearly didn't translate (and similarly no Safety between Blair and future Seahawk Julian Love. It's difficult to say we should have taken say the next pro-bowler in Deebo over LJ Collier and skipped out on DK later. I agree that if they took their next BPA instead, it probably would have been another miss, maybe Kaleb McGary. One of the better hits beside Mason Crosby could have been Zach Allen who may be on his way to his first pro-bowl had the Seahawks not gone DE in the first round and gotten him in the second round instead of Blair (Allen went one pick after DK). I want to make sure I say it's not like pro-bowlers are the only good players in the draft, just obviously we reached on Collier, and Raiders got a massive draft steal in round 4.
@@wicklebee Oh yeah definitely! That brings up a side point though that I would've loved to see Zach Allen on the Seahawks... not that he is an all-pro or anything, but I think he could've been a pretty good player on their front.
Daniel Jones won a playoff game. There are lots of top 10 picks that haven't done that but they're considered successes. Tua, Herbert, Kyler to name a few. All those guys had better weapons and coaching. Jones also had 3 coaches in his first 4 years, terrible lines and weapons. He won a playoff game throwing to Hodgins, Belingers and Slayton. He's a success based on that alone.
I would disagree. Nobody considers Mark Sanchez a success and he led the Jets to 2 straight AFC championship games. In a team sport, I don't think you can base success purely on team accolades like playoff wins. It should be about their individual play and how much they elevate the team. The operative question would be: do you think they could've accomplished the same without him there? I believe the Giants could've achieved the exact same record and success with a league average QB that season because of the excellent coaching. I don't think DJ did anything to elevate the team that year. Same goes for Mark Sanchez and the Jets. I just don't believe you can say "we won" on a top 6 pick because you've won a single playoff game in 5 seasons, especially when its still ambigious whether he really does anything to elevate the team around him. Is he a solid NFL QB? Yes! But do I think he's been worthy of a top 6 pick? No. You're entitled to your opinion of course, but I just respectfully disagree. Thanks for watching!
@@TheJumboPackage I consider Sanchez a success. All the other QBs that Jets drafted couldn't reach those heights, despite talented rosters. It's a result oriented league. QBs should be judged by wins, unlike other players in the league. The going rate for a QB is 3 1sts in trades and $50 mil a season in contracts. For that production, you should expect wins. It's irrelevant what other QBs could have done. DJ was in that position and he got a win. Again, Kyler Murray is considered a success, he is paid more than DJ, yet he hasn't won a playoff game. He had much more help. Same with Tua. This isn't even a Jimmy G or Jared Goff situation where, DJ had the best play callers, cornucopia of weapons and great O-Lines. He's probably getting cut, next offseason, but the Giants can point to something they got out of him. Which is more than you can say for other teams. Also, if we're asking what league average QBs could have done, why don't you apply that standard to other QBs. Jameis, Tua, Herbert and Kyler are all considered good picks, certainly better than Jones. But what could those teams accomplish with league average QBs. Hell what if DJ was their QB. What would Jones look like with Waddle, Hill and that offense. What if he could throw to Keenan Allen and Mike Williams as soon as he stepped in to the NFL? You can't consider other QBs with better situations and less playoff accomplishments a success and then call DJ a bust. That goes against what every team in the league is trying to do.
I played lacrosse in college with a guy that was BF with marquise Blair like we would literally watch this man play and go crazy at Utah then he would be on FT with him a few hours later. My boy Titus he was cold in lacrosse too but i always tell this story cuz it was kinda shocking and it was the first time i heard it. But Titus use to always tell us that marquise would tell him he don’t plan on staying in the NFL long he just wanted a bag and wanted to leave cuz he ain’t want to kill his body. Like at first i couldn’t understand cuz he was so damn good im thinking “bro he could really be sum at the next level and you only wanna play 4-5 yrs?”. Then when he got hurt like in his first game as a Seahawk i said “okay i get it now”
Damn thats sick! Honestly though, some people may see that and be kind of upset that was his mentality. Realistically looking at it, I think most people in his situation, with his injury history, would have similar thoughts. If you are constantly hurt, its hard to believe that you're going to stay healthy in the NFL, but at that point, you've already invested so much into getting to the NFL that you'd want to finally make it. Plus, even if you do stay healthy in the NFL, you'd be destroying your body. He won the starting job one year, so its not like he didn't try, but I think he knew his body wasn't gonna hold up so I don't really blame him.
As a Giants fan I 100% agree with Jones. He just doesn't have that 'wow' factor at all. Do we really trust him to beat a team like the Lions, Packers, or 49ers in those divisional / championship games assuming we ever make the playoffs at all? I don't think he's bad, but he just isn't the guy.
100% Agree! Not a bad QB by any means, just hasn't shown to be one that can elevate a team (which is what you expect w/the #6 overall pick). Maybe he can get there some day, but I just don't believe he's there right now. Thanks for watching!
Clelin Farrell honestly couldve been a freak if he got drafted to anyone but vegas lmaoo, dude was thr biggest and most athletic of the power rangers but they immediately didnt use him at all and only had him in for run stopping
Very possible! I think the "bust" label for Ferrell is harsh, but I know that the label is relative. He's actually been a pretty solid rotational player for teams, he's just not an every down starter. But the situation for him wasn't great either as you said - several different coaches makes it hard to be consistent.
If he went like a third rounder like he should have maybe he finds his niche developed and gets a good role for a second contract. But the raiders are awful
Definitely not a POS, as long as you're keeping it to despising him as a player lol. You're allowed to having genuine beliefs about a player, even if they're on your own team!
Very possible! He'd be a quality backup at this point in his career similar to Dalton. I'm just not sure if he'll get nearly as long of a starting run as Dalton did.
Probably! But honestly, if I had one of those, I'd probably default to putting too many guys there just because its a bit easier than having to take a stance and defend it. Not allowing ties prevents me from fence sitting and, when taking in everyone's input in the comments, allows me to get better at gauging whether a player objectively met expectations or not.
Would love to hear what you guys think! Think I was wrong in ruling who won? Is there someone else who should be on this list that I missed? Which draft should I cover next? Let me know!
Also - would you guys be interested in seeing the "reaches" and "steals" of rounds after the 1st and 2nd? This video and the last one only cover the NFL 1st and 2nd rounders / the consensus 1st and 2nd rounders. I'd be interested in looking into the guys past those rounds, but there may be some obscure names. Please let me know!
this is awesome content, i'd love a video just covering steals in the later rounds, also would love to see this for more draft classes, keep it up!
Thank you, I appreciate it!!
Draft analysts will say that certain positions take longer to develop and I think Tavai is a great example. Even if he is for real and ends up panning out it is for his second team. Even if he's a hall of famer the pick is still bad because the Lions wasted a 2nd round pick instead of a 5th round. I think that's why you rarely see linebackers with 1st round grades. Anyway great job as always. Love the videos!
Thank you so much, I appreciate that! I agree, LB is definitely one of the positions that takes the longest to develop. It makes sense considering how modern offenses are specifically designed to attack them and put them in conflict, so it’s such a steep learning curve from college to the NFL. OL are notoriously difficult to develop as well!
Also agree that, from the Lion’s perspective, the pick is definitely bad- especially when they gave up on him so early in his career. In the future though, I’m going to be grading just based off whether the player met their expectations, regardless of whether it is for the team that drafted them or another team- I think that way it helps to gauge whether the consensus or NFL was right on their overall projection for their career value.
Thank you for watching and supporting the channel!
I tend to disagree that because a player succeeds with his second team, the original draft selection wasn't worth it. The Lions identified that Tavai had second round potential and then failed to get the best out of him. His play in New England justified the original Lion's evaluation and scouting. I think identifying talent in the draft and developing said talent are two distinct things.
I guarantee the Lion's scout who graded Tavai's potential is putting that feather in is cap watching him succeed in the NFL. But from a fan's perspective, I get you would want a player drafted to your team to work out for your team. Success for another team doesn't change your team's failure.
@@Manchu504 Agreed on both fronts! Definitely sticking to going off the totality of a player's career rather than grading solely off how they did for their drafting team - the idea being that we're trying to gauge whether the evaluation of the player was correct at all.
i did not know Tavai had that good of a statistical season last year
Neither did I! Its kinda funny because I remember hearing how well he played in 2022, but didn't really hear anyone talk about him in 2023, despite him having an even better season.
@@TheJumboPackage it’s probably because he was on the bum ass patriots real talk 😂
Lmao true 😂
@@TheJumboPackagelet’s be real though, only 2/3 of that team were bums. That defense has remained legit throughout all the offensive woes.
That makes Tavai’s impact more impressive considering that unit was borderline elite overall.
@@MasNosral Fair! The defensive unit has definitely been much better than the offensive unit and he for sure has been a key piece in the defense playing well.
Finding great football channels is one of the best feelings, keep up the good work sir
Thank you, I appreciate it!
Dexter Lawrence would’ve been perfect for this. Everyone hated the pick but over time dude has turned into the best nose tackle in the nfl
Interestingly enough, he was actually only a 7 spot reach from the consensus board (ranked at #24, taken at #17). For that reason, I left him out. But you're right, with the backlash from the pick, I definitely could've put him on here and most likely should have. We do definitely know who won that one - the NFL. Lawrence has been the best true NT in the NFL for several years now and one of the best IDL in general. Its unbelievable how good he is for playing a position that generally is tasked w/doing things that don't show up in the stat sheet.
As a die hard Giants fan I loved the pick
Arguably the best defensive player in the league
Eh, there was a lot of hype around that Clemson DL. Dexter Lawrence, Christian Wilkins, and Clelin Ferrell were all viewed as first round picks. Ferrell was viewed as a late 1st, where Lawrence and Wilkins were more mid-1st players. I think the backlash for big blue was more about them not holding onto good IDL previously, and that pick not moving the needle for the team since they took a position that more often than not was a strength in the last few years, and replacing it with a strength.
This series and channel are awesome.. please keep this up with other draft classes. I love the research and grades. Could watch these for hours.
Thank you, I really appreciate that!! So happy to see that you're enjoying!
Your work is underrated, thanks for doing so much research
Thanks so much for watching and commenting!!
You got more of these vids? Thisbis great.
Thank you! and I do - My last video was going over the fallers / steals of the 2019 draft and, for the past 2 years, I've been documenting the biggest reaches & fallers in each draft at the time the draft took place and discussing the reasons why they fell or may have been a reach. More content like this will also be coming, so stay tuned!
Banger vid bro keep it uppp!! These last 2 videos have been amazing watches dude. You could definitely carve out some space for you in the NFL youtube world with this kinda content.
Thank you, I really appreciate that! Looking forward to making new content for everyone!
These last two videos are the first I've seen of the channel, and now I'm a sub. Keep this series going!
Thank you, I appreciate that! Definitely will do - already starting work on my next video!
This is a great video! Love the visualized information!! Def subbing
Thank you, I really appreciate that - Glad you enjoyed! Looking forward to hearing from you on future videos.
Shout out the Falcons for getting those two right
Definitely!
Tavai has been a stud with the patriots been very underrated the past couple of seasons
Agreed! He's played very well in their defense.
tbf Jahlani Tavais coverage grade is boosted by the Pats system which has the safeties (dugger, peppers, couple years ago phillips) playing cover linebacker - it makes his job extremely easy.
Thats very fair! Thats why its very important to watch the tape because even advanced metrics aren't perfect. But he definitely is an improved player from his Detroit days and he does have a skillset that makes him a very good player in the role that NE has him playing.
Giants fan here, we’re not mad. We know. DJ did exactly what was needed of him in his 2022 contract year and with hindsight that one playoff win probably set the franchise back 4 years. True professional guy though. Wish him the best. Clearly not worth a top 10 pick or massive extension.
Great perspective! and I agree. Hopefully he proves me wrong, for his sake and the sake of Giants fans, but at this point I don't believe he was worth the #6 overall pick.
Genuinely, all I'm learning from this is that it's really hard to be right on a player in the NFL draft. Not many players in total turn out anyways.
I love the deep dives though, please keep going. I just think it's rare someone's hunch is right on a player when everyone else has a different opinion.
Definitely will keep going with the deep dives! I think if anything, the past 2 videos show that, if a team is much higher on a player then consensus, they’re most likely wrong, but if they’re much lower on a player than consensus, they are most likely right - usually because they have access to more information that consensus doesn’t know that would lower the player’s consensus draft stock if they did know (e.g., medicals, personality information, etc.). That is an over generalization and there are exceptions, but that is what I’ve taken away from reviewing this one draft. I’m curious to see if that theory holds when reviewing other drafts.
Bro did NOT need to spend half the damn video on daniel jones 😭🙏
Idk man, I've seen some Giants fans crazy about this DJ shit, so I figured I might as well put the counter arguments to bed lol
If Daniel Jones was a late first or honestly a second rounder he would look great and no one would complain. But given the chance to draft Josh Allen and Lamar the year before and his top 20 at most potential was a disasterous decision by the giants. It has screwed an elite coaching hire and wasted giants fans lives for 6+ years.
I completely agree. I don't think he is awful by any means, but hes just simply not worth #6 overall and wasn't worth holding onto him at the contract number they gave him.
Great video, but Tytus Howard is a madden legend so he’s my a steal in my heart
True! He was a franchise OT for many madden players who chose to rebuild the Texans (including myself)
Bucs fan here, the biggest thing for me with Murphy-Bunting was the role he played. When he was in the nickel he was having much more consistent success, creating turnovers and making clutch plays at the line of scrimmage, but do to injuries would regularly be put on the perimeter where he struggled the most. As an outside corner he wasn't ever strong enough to compete at the catch point with bigger bodies an wasn't fast enough to play downfield with speedsters. Average would be an accurate assumption for him, as nickel corners play about half of the snaps perimeter corners play, but that was where he excelled. Appreciate him none the less for his role in the SB tho!
That makes a lot of sense - Thanks for providing that insight!
this vids are cool please make more of them
Thanks man, appreciate it! Already got a new one coming out soon!
Danny’s dimes has been solid In 2024 but yeah he needs to get it done
I'll give credit where it is due, he looks much better this season! He's been a little up and down (e.g., the Cowboys game he couldn't hit a deep ball and then this most recent game he was excellent throwing the deep ball), but I think overall he's been more impressive this season!
great video man keep it up!
Thank you!!
As a Giants fan I dont think there's a single fan that would argue against your opinion on Jones
I've had quite a few who are not pleased with it, but I'll admit that there are a lot more Giants fans who agreed with me than I expected!
Daniel Jones obviously wasn’t worth it. Plenty of that is on the giants, but he’s clearly a bust to this point
Agreed- he was not worth the #6 pick imo
@@TheJumboPackage I wouldnt qualify jones as a bust, as he has turned into an upper tier mid game manager. He'll probably have a decently long career as a placeholder QB for teams waiting on thier QB of the future. That said as far as him being a Franchise guy? yeah obviously not, but Between him being such a reach and him devloping into a decent but not great QB I wouldn't classify that as a bust.
@@Irishmex1398 Agreed! I wouldn't qualify him as a bust either. He isn't a complete zero at the position - He definitely makes some nice throws at times and he can add to the game w/his legs - I think he'd be a good bridge QB for teams too, so I'd disagree w/the OP that he is a bust. But I would agree w/the OP that he was definitely not worth the #6 pick.
The thing about DJ was he had the tools to succeed but Judge and Garrett made him scared to the throw the ball was a huge difference between Rookie jones and Judge era jones. Daboll came and did the best he could with Daniel but the damage has been done he’s a fringe starter high end backup he can get the job done but he doesn’t elevate
Interesting point, which I think is backed up by what the metrics show. He has a good arm and was willing to push the ball down the field much more, but struggled with turnovers early in his career. I imagine this made Judge and Garrett condition him to stop turning over the ball so much, especially because they both come from that line of coaches which is much more about ball control & slow, methodical offense, while protecting the ball. I wouldn't be surprised if you were right, but ultimately its hard to say because we can't see the alternate timeline where DJ gets a coach earlier in his career that allows him to come in, sling it, make mistakes, and learn from those mistakes while being comfortable with his play style.
It's a defensive draft like this one that really started to show some holes in Pete Carroll's eye for talent acquisition. At least on defense since we got DK Metcalf. In drafting, he and Schneider still hit on some players, but he was getting really bad. Now, unlike the 2018 draft, it wasn't some miss at the position where a better player went shortly after our pick at that position. For example, DE we made a miss with Collier, but the next available pro-bowler wasn't picked until the 4th round. And the miss on Marquise Blair? Next best DB was a man who would eventually replace Blair, Julian Love, also in the 4th round. The real miss was the Seahawks trading down from 21, where they could have gotten Montez Sweat, but also both of the picks they got from the Packers there included picks they traded further back with and then forwards to get DK Metcalf. So best we could have done is reached for guys that went in the 4th round or ultimately missed out on one of the biggest names for the Seahawks today.
I definitely agree with the point that it was a major negative to trade out of 21 - Sweat would have made a huge impact on that defense!
I would disagree slightly on the point about the pro-bowlers, because that argument assumes that they couldn't have drafted any other position. It is true that the next pro-bowl DE was taken in round 4, but there were still 10 pro bowlers (not including DK metcalf) drafted in between Collier and Maxx Crosby. This is why its always really important for a team to try and make sure they have no huge holes in their team before the draft, so they're not stuck to taking one position! That doesn't necessarily mean they would have taken any of those 10 players, but who knows what they would have done if they took their BPA (assuming Collier wasn't just their BPA). But I do get your overall point though, especially looking at the players in that range. There aren't that many names that would've been huge impacts for them. Thanks for watching and commenting!
@@TheJumboPackage Oh I meant at that position between Collier and Crosby, which clearly didn't translate (and similarly no Safety between Blair and future Seahawk Julian Love. It's difficult to say we should have taken say the next pro-bowler in Deebo over LJ Collier and skipped out on DK later. I agree that if they took their next BPA instead, it probably would have been another miss, maybe Kaleb McGary. One of the better hits beside Mason Crosby could have been Zach Allen who may be on his way to his first pro-bowl had the Seahawks not gone DE in the first round and gotten him in the second round instead of Blair (Allen went one pick after DK). I want to make sure I say it's not like pro-bowlers are the only good players in the draft, just obviously we reached on Collier, and Raiders got a massive draft steal in round 4.
@@wicklebee Oh yeah definitely! That brings up a side point though that I would've loved to see Zach Allen on the Seahawks... not that he is an all-pro or anything, but I think he could've been a pretty good player on their front.
Daniel Jones won a playoff game. There are lots of top 10 picks that haven't done that but they're considered successes. Tua, Herbert, Kyler to name a few. All those guys had better weapons and coaching. Jones also had 3 coaches in his first 4 years, terrible lines and weapons. He won a playoff game throwing to Hodgins, Belingers and Slayton. He's a success based on that alone.
I would disagree. Nobody considers Mark Sanchez a success and he led the Jets to 2 straight AFC championship games. In a team sport, I don't think you can base success purely on team accolades like playoff wins. It should be about their individual play and how much they elevate the team. The operative question would be: do you think they could've accomplished the same without him there? I believe the Giants could've achieved the exact same record and success with a league average QB that season because of the excellent coaching. I don't think DJ did anything to elevate the team that year. Same goes for Mark Sanchez and the Jets. I just don't believe you can say "we won" on a top 6 pick because you've won a single playoff game in 5 seasons, especially when its still ambigious whether he really does anything to elevate the team around him. Is he a solid NFL QB? Yes! But do I think he's been worthy of a top 6 pick? No. You're entitled to your opinion of course, but I just respectfully disagree. Thanks for watching!
@@TheJumboPackage I consider Sanchez a success. All the other QBs that Jets drafted couldn't reach those heights, despite talented rosters. It's a result oriented league. QBs should be judged by wins, unlike other players in the league. The going rate for a QB is 3 1sts in trades and $50 mil a season in contracts. For that production, you should expect wins.
It's irrelevant what other QBs could have done. DJ was in that position and he got a win. Again, Kyler Murray is considered a success, he is paid more than DJ, yet he hasn't won a playoff game. He had much more help. Same with Tua. This isn't even a Jimmy G or Jared Goff situation where, DJ had the best play callers, cornucopia of weapons and great O-Lines. He's probably getting cut, next offseason, but the Giants can point to something they got out of him. Which is more than you can say for other teams.
Also, if we're asking what league average QBs could have done, why don't you apply that standard to other QBs. Jameis, Tua, Herbert and Kyler are all considered good picks, certainly better than Jones. But what could those teams accomplish with league average QBs. Hell what if DJ was their QB. What would Jones look like with Waddle, Hill and that offense. What if he could throw to Keenan Allen and Mike Williams as soon as he stepped in to the NFL? You can't consider other QBs with better situations and less playoff accomplishments a success and then call DJ a bust. That goes against what every team in the league is trying to do.
I played lacrosse in college with a guy that was BF with marquise Blair like we would literally watch this man play and go crazy at Utah then he would be on FT with him a few hours later. My boy Titus he was cold in lacrosse too but i always tell this story cuz it was kinda shocking and it was the first time i heard it. But Titus use to always tell us that marquise would tell him he don’t plan on staying in the NFL long he just wanted a bag and wanted to leave cuz he ain’t want to kill his body. Like at first i couldn’t understand cuz he was so damn good im thinking “bro he could really be sum at the next level and you only wanna play 4-5 yrs?”. Then when he got hurt like in his first game as a Seahawk i said “okay i get it now”
Damn thats sick! Honestly though, some people may see that and be kind of upset that was his mentality. Realistically looking at it, I think most people in his situation, with his injury history, would have similar thoughts. If you are constantly hurt, its hard to believe that you're going to stay healthy in the NFL, but at that point, you've already invested so much into getting to the NFL that you'd want to finally make it. Plus, even if you do stay healthy in the NFL, you'd be destroying your body. He won the starting job one year, so its not like he didn't try, but I think he knew his body wasn't gonna hold up so I don't really blame him.
As a Giants fan I 100% agree with Jones. He just doesn't have that 'wow' factor at all. Do we really trust him to beat a team like the Lions, Packers, or 49ers in those divisional / championship games assuming we ever make the playoffs at all? I don't think he's bad, but he just isn't the guy.
100% Agree! Not a bad QB by any means, just hasn't shown to be one that can elevate a team (which is what you expect w/the #6 overall pick). Maybe he can get there some day, but I just don't believe he's there right now. Thanks for watching!
Now you need to do a video on the players drafted at their exact consensus position and see if that is a good strategy
Cool idea! I very well might do this if I could think of a good name for a video haha. Thanks!
we asked the man, he came through 🙏
Thanks bro, appreciate you!
Clelin Ferrell going at 4 was such a bizarre pick. Wasn't even the most talented guy on Clemson's defensive line.
Definitely an odd one!
as a giants fan, i agree w the daniel jones call (im not a giants fan)
Lmao 😂 I was surprised for a second
Just earned a sub
Thank you, I appreciate it!
Well Tavai has deff panned out
Clelin Farrell honestly couldve been a freak if he got drafted to anyone but vegas lmaoo, dude was thr biggest and most athletic of the power rangers but they immediately didnt use him at all and only had him in for run stopping
Very possible! I think the "bust" label for Ferrell is harsh, but I know that the label is relative. He's actually been a pretty solid rotational player for teams, he's just not an every down starter. But the situation for him wasn't great either as you said - several different coaches makes it hard to be consistent.
If he went like a third rounder like he should have maybe he finds his niche developed and gets a good role for a second contract. But the raiders are awful
Sample is a dont take and sign Marcedes Lewis/ 10.
Haha honestly!
Am I a POS for being a Giants fan although I absolutely despise Daniel Jones?
Definitely not a POS, as long as you're keeping it to despising him as a player lol. You're allowed to having genuine beliefs about a player, even if they're on your own team!
This dude clearly loves Daniel jones lol
You caught me!
Daniel Jones joins the Andy dalton company I feel like there careers are gonne be very similar
Very possible! He'd be a quality backup at this point in his career similar to Dalton. I'm just not sure if he'll get nearly as long of a starting run as Dalton did.
i don’t think any of us giants fans will disagree with you that daniel jones wasn’t worth the 6th pick lol
Haha, well thats good! I certainly know a few Giants fans who are not very pleased w/my Daniel Jones take 😅
Why tf you zoom in on that little Asian kid? 3:46
Wanted to see if anyone would notice tbh lmao
I think you just need a too close to call section for some of these tbh
Probably! But honestly, if I had one of those, I'd probably default to putting too many guys there just because its a bit easier than having to take a stance and defend it. Not allowing ties prevents me from fence sitting and, when taking in everyone's input in the comments, allows me to get better at gauging whether a player objectively met expectations or not.
Point of the video: don’t draft anyone. Don’t take risks.
Lol - just be like the Rams! If you don't take anyone, you can't be disappointed!
so true 😂
It’s Ban oh Goo.
Gotcha, thank you!
Danny derp😂
Tavai goes to the nfl
If he keeps up his level of play this year, I would agree!