Marvel Lead Comics Death Spiral With Sheer Stupidity
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 7 июн 2024
- Last year famed comic book retailer Chuch Rozanski plainly stated, "the Direct Market periodical business is in a death spiral right now." But a recent comics interview with Marvel President Dan Buckley, he flat out denies there are any issues with comics or the direct market. Buckley's interview with ICv2 creates the question, is Buckley stupid or is he lying? Wes and Dok tear Dan Buckley's recent interview apart and add some much needed context and truth to the conversation. Marvel lead Comics death spiral with shear stupidity.
Support Thinking Critical On Patreon For Exclusive Content!
/ thinkingcritical
🛒 SHOP THINKING CRITICAL - Official Merch!
www.redbubble.com/people/T-Cr...
Thank you for supporting the channel!
Thinking Critical TikTok Channel: / thinking_critical
Thinking Critical Instagram: / thinkingcrit
Thinking Critical FaceBook Community: / 1368359010382132
Thinking Critical Discord: / discord
Twitch Channel
/ thinking_critical_yt
Contact Thinking Critical:
Twitter: / wes_from_tc
Email wesdigscomics@gmail.com
#marvel #comics #comicbooks 
Развлечения
Modern comics doesn't want fans, they want zombies who just spend the money aimlessly
They don't even want that, the 40 year old marvel drone is the demographic they chased away. It literally took thema decade to break that habit by constant servings of slop, terrible writing and staff goes 'Don't buy my book'.
Elephants in the room? They're dancing around like Heffalumps and Woozles in Pooh's fever dream.
Lol 😂love it ✅
Drunk Dumbo hasn't seen as many.
I am just glad Marvel has been releasing the Epic Collection line the past decade. There are more than enough classic stories from the 60s-90s to last my lifetime. I would rather spend thousands of dollars on those, than buy new comics hoping that Marvel will change their ways.
Odds are Marvel and DC are getting money from some DEI company to keep pushing that agenda. The problem is rather than hiring talented writers, they keep hiring cheap twitter agenda pushers who have no talent or clue how to write super hero comics. The fan group that they are pushing so hard to cater to just isn't there at all. They've destroyed their business catering to a non-existence niche of fans who don't buy comics. Thank you Wes and Dok.
YES! it has to be something else we are not seeing here. Comics is the Only space who quite frankly ignore it's audience. even Wrestling Promotions don't do this ...
For reasons I'd love to see explained, Marvel and DC no longer believe success = actually selling comic books. Their sales are cratering, comic book stores are closing, manga is crushing them, and they're all "Nah, it'll be fine". Does anyone at Marvel or DC understand the first thing about business?
They think the merchandise and movie stuff will last if they shitcan the comics. They might be right.
They got that ESG money backing them...
They will be fine...
I hate it...
I believe it was George Carlin who said to think about how dumb the average person is, and then realize that half of all people are dumber than that. As an industry, comics is such small potatoes that it’s not going to attract the best and brightest. So I’m not surprised that, as it shrinks, the people in charge run it into the ground ever faster.
It's not small potatoes that are keeping talent out. Backroom networks (and not just our favorite 12 retards on twitter, all the edtiros , all the higher level staff who let this shit flourish) are constraining hiring. You're telling me they can't afford to attract moderately talented english and arts majors? No, this is a choice made to turn comics into a personal fiefdom for politics. Fire everyone start over is unironically good advice. Go kiss some old artist and editor tushy to come back and man things for a few years until the new guys are trained.
This interview tells me the following: 1. This just proves to me that Feige and Disney Corporate doesn’t care about Marvel Comics. No other industry provides this much bandwidth to its executives to fail.
2. Marvel cannot afford top talent from top to bottom: executives to writers to editors. Creatives know more than we do re the “workplace” environment. They want no part of it.
3. Buckley is scared. Too scared to be honest and too scared to react and try to fix things. He’s treading water.
The most frightening thing marvel could ever imagine - more than a planet of vampires - is 'getting in a room' with fans and store owners who would awaken them to a terrifying reality. Keep on truckin', marvel.
Marvel and DC Comics are dead to me. But, hey, it's not our fault that the American Comics industry is pure trash! I mean, it's sad when My Hero Academia is so much more appealing to the American audience than Marvel and DC plus Star Wars combined!!
My Hero Academia is great. Gives me what so many American Super Hero stories are lacking - characters who are actually Heroes!
They can't admit it because that would mean admitting that they're responsible
Ahhhh, good point.... 🤔
There’s the old saying you have to spend money to make money. It’s not just being cheap on talent, but everything, including marketing. DC ran a JLA vs Godzilla series, big cross market appeal, but who outside the current comic buying public know it exists? Millions are spent to promote every other form of entertainment like movies, but not a dime in comics. They just randomly expect people to show up and buy things? Why?
For instance, people who like the new Superman cartoon, are they aware there’s a tie-in comic being published? Are people who like X-Men 97 aware there’s a tie-in comic?
"Why are we going back too 2019 as some moment of success for Marvel Comics?" 😂😂😂 So sadly true😢😢😢
They are losing the young generation. I had to stop collecting in the late 90’s but I tried to get my oldest into it about 12 years ago. They quality of the new comics was so bad, he just collected some trades of old Spidey and Venom. My kids love my old stuff but do not like the new stories.
The last two venom runs have been great but they also got interrupted by 4 seperate crossover events they need to stop doing that shit
I’m glad there’s plenty of older comics to read that are great
This. I'm just getting omnis for the older stuff and completely ignoring what's going on in comics right now. They aren't worth a look.
@@justinsmithy2286 there’s over 50 thousand dc and marvel comics before 2012. You would have to take years to read them.
And plenty of FOREIGN comics. Marvel and DC Comics turned themselves into GM, Ford, and Chrysler; just as the American car companies drove American drivers toward non-American car companies that made cars worth driving, instead of "Fix Or Repair Dailies" (1980s nickname for Ford cars, due to their poor reliability), the American comic book companies drove American comic book readers toward manga and manhwa (Japanese and Korean comics, respectively).
There are plenty of mangas,indies comics and European comics to read too.
Maybe if Marvel didn't keep retconning established characters and spiting their readers, they wouldn't be in this situation. (and all the nauseating events that just DON'T matter)
This death spiral is just absolutely fascinating... 🌪️💀
How did it become an ESTABLISHED FACT that flooding comics with gay characters, race-swapping long-established characters and making the products female-oriented would increase sales? Where was any data that supported that idea? It was like an all-encompassing religion that swept over the industry, and any heretics who doubted it were burned at the stake.
Sometimes make me want to sell my whole comics collection cause they’ve been actively killing it and the characters since 2008. Sad
Yeah i know what you mean...🤔
I still like my stuff but at some point it also feels like a "bad reminder"🤔
Got anything good in those long boxes? 😁
Ok this is just off the top of my head. Mattel has a race tour where they make limited edition cars available and have their designers autograph cars. Why doesn’t Marvel or DC do something like this, they could have had booths set up for FCBD , had special comics for the event. Had artists sign comics, done face painting for the kids. Something like this is a no brainer. As a kid I would have loved something like this. Good PR!
Also people are going to the back issues more often because I’m tired of editors and writers, having characters sit around for 32pages eating dinner. There are more ways to do a meaningful fill in issues. They have no drive to do better whenever they keep hiring who don’t care about the fandom or characters. There is talent we seen them kickstarter and on other projects. I’ll work for marvel comics and DC comics.
I am trying to think of any other industry where the writers and artists hate the fans so much, went woke and don't care that their industry is dying as much as the comic book industry.
I mean try to imagine an industry where the more interesting books published with actual new materials are done *BY THE FANS THEMSELVES*.
Not the music industry
Not mainstream book publishing
Not the cellphone industry
Etc etc
One of the reason I follow this is because this might genuinely be a first, a hint of what the future will be like for the rest of the entertainment media
I suspect you're right 😢👍
@@bigtomboye I have been reading comics since I was 7 years old. First from a now defunct french company called edition heritage that reprinted the old issues from the 60s and 70s marvel and DC. I also read the original English ones as well , which helped me learn English. I'm a francophone.
So basically , I have lived the evolution of comics from the early 80s to today.
I cannot think of any other industry which is in such a bad state that the fans themselves have to write their own material to shore it up. In 10 years from today , a lot of golden age DC characters will go public and we are even sure if comics will survive.
DC ,marvel ,dark horse and image will become penny dreadful.
It's sad
I’d disagree with regards to book publishing. Since the advent of the Kindle, the growth of self publishing has provided the lion’s share of growth in ebook sales. It’s kind of (though not perfectly) analogous to crowdfunding in comics.
@@ascorvinus Ok,
So how many hits have come out of self publishing by kindle ? The paper book industry is still around, they did not commit seppuku like comic books. But it's not a willful self-destruction like comic book is what I am trying to say. Ebooks, kindle are technological advances,not auto destruction
@@namelesswhocares8648 The publishing industry has its share of problems, but you’re right, it’s nothing compared to comics. Probably because there’s more money in publishing, so it attracts better talent. Not just writers, but editors and publishers with actual business acumen.
In fact, they sometimes take successful self publishers and repackage their work. Wool and The Martian both started out as self published books.
"Is he dumb or lying?"
Yes.
Well, he's already rich, he has no incentive to really care.
Marvel never been the same after secret wars
After Disassembled.
Dan Buckley = perfect example of Peter Principle.
Also, if you wait until someone is a successful writer outside of DC or Marvel before you hire them, they are already earning more than they would ever get paid at Marvel/DC. It's a catch 22. The only draw card would be the characters/universe/prestige and those things have been made worthless.
From Our Asses -- We Don't Know What We're Doing!
I hope people realize that DC and Marvel comics are not going to get better. I mean be real, this shit ain't turning around.
Doc seems well-known for his rants but this one was quite good! 👏
I think it’s too late at this point. They aren’t making money so they won’t be able to pay for top talent. The best we can hope for is unknown creators who actually like comics being discovered. Jeremy Adams, PKJ, and sometimes Jed are decent but they aren’t big names and by the time they become household names, they’ll want to move on most likely because the money isn’t there. Unless their parent companies wanna dump money into the medium, I don’t see things getting better on a consistent basis. Even Scott Snyder doesn’t really excite me anymore. He’s coming back but he hasn’t written anything that good in a long time. He’s not even gonna be writing for the main continuity. These publishers are so stupid. I could go on for days.
They operate under an entirely different definition for “failure”, obviously.
They're right to just accept their fate, they're dead men walking at this point and nothing can change that.
The old fans will never come back in the numbers they need and there are no new fans, you:ve had a generation worth of kids raised on Manga and anime and that's what they'll show their kids out of nostalgia and what the next generations will grow up with.
It's over, they've been failing for 20 years and there's no new blood to replace my Uncle's generation as they die off or our generation as they chased most of us away. There's no spinners in the supermarkets so you aren't getting new kids having their parents impulse buy them Spiderman or X-men because of the cool cover art near the check out counter after they've been bored food shopping for an hour.
Their only legitimate hope ( imho anyway) is to fire all the terrible staff and hope they can find enough new, good, undiscovered talent to turn the ship around and keep it on track for a decade and that those of you left have enough children you raise reading comics to reset the generational tradition and your grandchildren will be the next possible big generation of American Comics readers.
I don't see it happening, but there's where the ficus should be. The fans they lost are gone, the current generation are gone, and they need to accept that, cater to the fans they have left to rebuild brand image, and focus on a strat to get the under 10 currently generation to be weekly readers by the time they're 13.
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Have a good day boss, thanks for the entertainment.
The junk being produced by Marvel & DC managed to break a 45 year addiction for me. I went to the only remaining comic shop in my area on Free Comic Book Day this year and walked out without buying anything (didn't even take any of the free ones). At this point I go back and re-read older stuff (re-reading Grendel right now) and collect original art from the comics that I loved from the 70's-90's.
This guy is out of touch. My LCS closed last year. One of the oldest stores in my area is basically operating out of a bar now cause they afford to keep paying rent. I'm basically in Geppi's front yard.
They need some real talent like Liefeld, Claremont, etc who really care about the comics. Pay them good salery. Then keep good writer under good salary to pump the comics up. Sadly they can't keep real talent due to salary. Also cut the books down cause we don't need 3 to 9 books of X-Men. Or to pump some money in, reprint classic X-Men.
Not sure it's just only mere salary; it doesn't seem like they would publish decent stories we'd love if they were written for less than today's rate🤔
They’re never going to fix anything since they don’t even know what the problem is.
Time to stop using the "pandemic" as the crutch as the reason for any struggles.
Marvel it's too stubborn,too arrogant to admit that your books sucks for many years and that the industry are having a painful and slow death right now. Yes, they made us the older readers jump off the ship because the characters are unrecognizable for decades now. Who here is excited for the X-Men relaunch in the next July? We all know that will suck even before the realise because the latest run destroyed the books utterly. There's no any hope to the 616 line anymore and these idiots just refuse to admit the problem and try to improve or fix the things in some way. Marvel is dead to me. It's very sad see something that we grew up reading being marginalized and ruined by these modern writers.
Instead of appealing to their biggest audience demo, they keep trying to create a new one that isn't really there.
I think Marvel may have a hit with their manga-sized TPBs of comics from yesteryear. I bought five of them on FCBD. Keep pumping them out, and I'll buy them.
They want to Wednesday warriors back? They need to create more new storylines and return characters back to normal. Because we have been asking Marvel to give us what we want. We ask DC to give us what we want. We don’t want events after events. We want DC and Marvel to stop sharing the same fail writers.
The tie-ins, spin-offs, events, required reading, sheer number of books, wild fluctuations in story quality and prices drove me out of buying weekly floppies. I love Marvel and DC and it breaks my heart to step away from them, but I just can't anymore.
The Toilets not Flushing let’s call a CEO
“Broadening” and expanding should never be apart of current marvels vocabulary…unless they’re referring to the amount of failed “events”, excuses, and profit loss.
So Buckley tried to be Bob Iger but not enough people are making fun of how desperately he needs to resign and retire; his answers are 20 years out of date. Now the only question is who will file for bankruptcy first in the next 5 years: Marvel or Disney.
Way to go Marvel, you’re just bringing us DC vs Vampires (Marvel edition)
Ok and Dc did marvel zombies with dceased
Here's a little tip. If you hear someone blaming the pandemic for the shape their business is in, their business was also in bad shape before the pandemic. Every. Single. Time.
I wouldn't be surprised at this point that they see losing so much of their male audience as a success. In the end we now have to admit that there are those who want success for comics and those who want to have it as their ecochamber, no matter how it is reduced.
Oh I'd bet a hundred bucks they see it as a total complete success, yes 💯💰
Would Marvel consider stop putting out comics and movies, then switch to collectibles?
Comic book readers demand exactly what's on the cover, both literally- i.e., the quality of the art INSIDE the book, matching that of the art on the cover- and figuratively- i.e., none of that "bait and switch" nonsense in which the characters the readers are fans of, get replaced with "more diverse" IN NAME ONLY characters that NOBODY will be fans of.
Manga and manhwa- Japanese and Korean comics, respectively- give their readers exactly what's on the cover, hence their success in the "current year" US. FALSELY ACCUSING manga and manhwa artists of thoughtcrimes- e.g., claiming 'Youjo Senki' (licensed in North America as 'Saga of Tanya the Evil') supports the kind of government Germany had during World War II- will NOT change this fact.
I remember being extremely disappointed so may times for this exact reason. I didn't read many comics when I was younger and this could be a big reason.
I read blood hunt for a dollar lol thanks comic shop ur epic
Awesome work guys
I’m not surprised .
Gentlemen, you do know this "management" is just picking up a paycheck before moving on to the next gig, right?
TC every video you have this guy on .
I always find myself 100% agreeing with him!
Dok has a point every once in a while.
What day is it that if you see Tom Brebort it means 9 more months of shit comics?
Joe Quesada was always able to recruit and find new talent. Being the artist he was, and the people he knew, allowed this to occur. CB in no way is Joe Q and does not have the ability to draw in talent. Not like Joe Q could...which is one reason why Marvel did so well under Joe Q's guidance. I wouldn't want Bendis back...his writing is just terrible at this point. In my viewpoint, and this is just my experience talking here, is that the suits never in this industry want to hear what is bad or the problem might be. Even f'n bad retailers never want to hear what their problems are and fix them. They just want to say its "cyclical" and that given time we will be back where we were. It's amazing just how they don't want to hear it. All they want to hear is what you like and not what you dislike. Nobody right now is providing retailers with the support they need, with maybe the exception of a Skybound. And that is the most frustrating part of all this. Decade after decade...and its only gotten worse, with DC being the most notable culprit and just removing any and all help they used to provide retailers versus every other publisher out there. It just might be in everyone's best interest if these companies start to license the publishing rights out at some point so a person like Mark Millar, Todd McFarlane, or a Robert Kirkman (guys with serious money & the desire to publish quality stories with retailer support) can put the kind of product out there fans want and retailers can sell. It's these things that are obvious as day, yet someone like myself will get crushed and negated for pointing them out. You get tagged as being "negative" instead of honest and wanting to fix a problem. I don't know...do I sound like I am lying here???? WTF20.
Joe Quesada and Brian Michael Bendis are both sellouts. The two of them bought into the Hollywood bullshit. They got corrupted and greedy. Just like Kevin Feige did.
As a guy who abandoned 'current' Marvel comics nearly 20 years ago, I think some of the blame for the bad writing has to go to the older generations of 'big name' writers that you referenced. Miller and Morrison and the like. They started (or at least expanded) the trend of breaking characters and breaking books. The current writers may suck, but even if they didn't, they'd still be starting with damaged goods and a smaller and angrier fan-base...
The house is on FIRE?! Time to make a sandwich!
100% correct
Bukake variants may actually be viable Dok
DOK's analogies are on point this episode. 😂
I think people are sick and tired of years and years of buying and reading bad comic books. This "blood hunt" event is also going to bomb, just as nearly all of Marvel's other recent events did. Instead of acknowledging their stories totally stink, they still blame the people who stopped buying their cr@p books and the pandemic (cringe) for Marvel's lackluster sales numbers. It looks like Marvel's house of (lack of) ideas is still intellectually bankrupt and it will continue to pander to 5% of the population, most of who don't even read comic books.
Absolute delusion at the top, enabling bad creative “talent.”
Milking that cash cow till it shrives up and rots
100%. Marvel has been consistently disappointing with few exceptions, and it's mostly due to poor decisions that seem based primarily on penny-pinching, politics and nepotism. I miss enjoying Marvel, but they're too expensive to settle for such horrible writing. Spine-tingling Spider-man and Spectacular Spider-men were the last two I got excited for and they were both monumental let-downs. No more. I know Ultimate is popular but I'm not a big Hickman fan, and I don't feel like supporting Marvel when they consistently show disdain for the fans and such little care for the mom-and-pop shops that they owe most of their success to.
Wes, wat happened to Best of the week?
Great question!
What do you mean? He does best of the week with Jim every Saturday, no?
@@mikem3543 Duh, he didn't yesterday. That's why the question was asked. Duh.
@@jeromemaida4933 I was unaware of this, which was why I politely asked if he wasn’t still doing the Saturday show with Jim. Kinda wish you had been a little more polite as well instead of insulting me. I do hope it made you feel better tho? I’m assuming that’s why you went out of your way to type something like that? Did it? Did it make you feel better?
Never Jed before, so I guess I kinda liked his new event story but it doesn't feel like an event, just a big story to me.
Also though I see how reading crap for so long has destroyed my ability to gage how good something is
Thanks!
Thanks John! 👊
As we know, all great works of literature were written in a corporate, in-office environment under the watchful eye of marketing.😏
They’ve done so much damage over the last few years that I can’t see how they recover. I switched to manga & there’s nothing on earth that will bring me back.
Manga is just so much better, there’s no comparison, the sheer variety of stories and genre available is something the big two just can’t compete with.
Also, it's 2024 when do they think the pandemic ended? Fall 2023?
Marvel and DC are about “the message” over story telling.
Success to this guy is " We have more LGBT and BIPOC representation in the creative department than ever before! We're winning!", Not seeming to understand that it means nothing if there is no money coming in to pay these peope because nothing they make sells for shit
Its funny because both marvel and Dc are owned by companies that are owned by other companies. You guys really think corporate sponsored comics are going to be good? They will only let you write if it agrees with their talking points. It will all make sense if you ever went through corporate forced “training”.
I keep saying this Kevin is the over seer the one who in charge of all thing marvel.
What happened to Donny Cates?
Marvel used his work for a Thanos Disney ride, and they put stuff from King in Black in Spider-Man 2 and didn't even credit him. He also got in a car wreck and had to drop projects.
dok is speaking those writers are toast dust by now
BASED VIDEO
Marvels only plan is gimmicks and yet another event. Also new number 1's.
Not that you need MORE on your plate… (but I think your audience would love this) , would you recommend any top graphic novels? I’m not willing to do monthly buys anymore. I have ZERO faith in buying a title because I’m certain that I can buy a title, LOVE the title but then 3-4 months later I’m sure they will take a wild turn OR put a bad artist on it. So… I LOVE graphics. I will buy them. So… can you do this for us? We will pay you double what we pay you now 🙃
Donny Cates was never better than mediocre.
Answer is simple. Put Professor X and Magneto in a gay relationship. Bam!
I can promise you this idea has already been pitched.
These people need a come to Jesus meeting...
If only these "comics and general market experts" were just people locked in their basements with their little opinions and not workers being paid for such "strategic thinking" then all would OK.
At this rate superhero comics are going the way of speakeasy’s and drive ins.
The big 2 tried to court an audience that never existed. They keep trying to blame the pandemic I've noticed lol. Nah. You ran off your true, paying audience.
Feige was a fan. Again wth happened to him?
He was never a fan. He was just faking it. If he was actually a real fan, he wouldn't be doing half of the messed up shit that he is doing.
Buckley is getting paid no matter what. Can we see his salary and bonus schedule? I believe this ignorance comes from direct payments from the gov to Disney and WB for SOCIAL ENGINEERING.
@@user-eg1eh8tm3z Still doesn’t explain losing money…Unless they are getting paid from somewhere….
The change is that people aren't buying the garage there making I think that's the Change there talking about when you got losers like them running marvel 😂
i'd like to thank marvel/dc. do you realize how much coinage i've saved by abandoning them?
i mean Manga has better stories and is way cheaper.
and those extra savings goes a long way when i'm picking extra rolls of filament for the 3d printer...LOL
Moving the goalposts again, Wes. Are you discussing graphic novel or American comic book sales? You vibrate through the two as though they are the same thing. They aren’t.
Please link to the article you're discussing in the description! Even better, an archive link. It's not hard.
*sheer