"The Israelites didn't worship as most assume" - A conversation with Dr Kipp Davis
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- Dr Kipp Davis has spent years studying the Bible and its origins, and he believes most Christians get it wrong in their assumptions surrounding Israelite culture and worship.
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Thank you Lloyd! This was fantastic! I wish more people in the world 🌎 would pay attention to this stuff.
You and me both! Glad you liked it!
Love the scholars!!!! Thumbs up! Enjoy Dr Kipp’s knowledge. Thank you!!!
Please do this again. This is so helpful ❤
You've got a big-hitter here!
Absolutely fascinating. Thank you Lloyd!
Thanks Lloyd! This is very interesting.🎉
What an excellent interview! Thank you!
Very interesting indeed. I learned a lot
Very interesting episode. Really enjoyed it.
When I was studying on my own after mentally freeing myself, I spent a lot of time speaking with Rabbis. I also had an exJW friend that was converting to Judaism. That time, learning the Torah and what early Jews believed and practiced really changed my entire view of, and how I understood the Bible as a "whole". It's really weird when you think how Christians came to use the OT today.
Fascinating!
Wonderful Interview, Lloyd. Most of the information that Dr. Kipp Davis presented wasn't really new to me. No, I'm not a Biblical scholar, and I'm no expert when it comes to Biblical scholarship, but I was pretty much familiar with the claims that he made. It was still quite fun to revisit this information though. You won't learn this information at very many religious houses of worship, unless maybe they're more theologically, socially, morally and politically progressive. You are unlikely to ever hear of this stuff like Yahweh and El's relationship to one another or how "Jehovah" is likely an inaccurate pronunciation of Yahweh's nickname. Though, the Society did acknowledge in a previous issue of "THE WATCHTOWER" magazine, in I believe the 1960s, that Jehovah may not be the most accurate name for the Biblical God. No one knows exactly how YHWH was supposed to be pronounced as the Jews, like Dr. David said, stopped pronouncing it because they thought it was "too sacred" to say.
Nonetheless, this stuff won't be talked about in any WATCHTOWER STUDY meeting at a Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses anywhere. Too bad. But when you have a theological agenda to push, any information that conflicts with that agenda has to be tossed out the window, even scholarly, archeological and historical information that has been peer-reviewed. Well, that's the loss of the JWs and other religious fundamentalists, I guess.
Great guest, good discussion, I enjoyed this very much!
Interesting, thanks for the interview!
Thank you for this Lloyd.
The more you see it as a Middle Eastern view the more complicated it can be . Now you have research more and more and you never find a"truth"
Fascinating
Love this Lloyd. I've been looking into the Samaritans to find out what exactly they believe and how they worship. It has to be a close parallel to the Israelites. Also perhaps they know the secret of the Divine name? What about Jesus? Perhaps you could help us on this?
TWU lists Kipp on their website as a faculty member there, as of Aug 9, 2023
Yes! Have Dr Davis back. But please, don't have him on at the same time as Dr Carrier!
It is well known that those who worshiped Moloch had child sacrifice. God judged them for this. Am I right in saying that Kipp skips this point?
The Watchtower of course is highly spiteful towards the Documentary Hypothesis. It rarely mentions it, and when it does, it is highly predujiced and dishonest about it. So you might hear JWs think that it's just a petty attempt at discrediting the obvious truth about Moses writing it all. But it's good to bring some basic facts about the books to their attention. These are pretty easy to check on your own, even from WT literature:
1. The books are anonymous. The authorship, sources and date are never discussed in them or elsewhere around this time. (The Law and these books are not synonyms in this period, see Deut. 31:9).
2. They refer to Moses in the 3rd person throughout and even tell about his death.
3. The language in the narrative books of the Bible is very similar, that means they're from the same era. So if the book of Kings was written in the Exile period, the Pentateuch can't be much older. In fact, it corresponds well with inscriptions from the late Monarchy period.
4. Verses like Gen 12:6, 13:7, 36:31, Deut. 1:1, 3:14 sound very weird coming from someone living in the 15th century BCE, outside Israel.
5. The mention of Chaldeans, Philistines, Arameans, domesticated camels etc. - things that didn't exist in the Bronze Age
And many more oddities in the text. The points mentioned by Kipp are of course very well researched and there are many more.
En sous titres Français SVP Merci
2 Kings 6:26-30 people were cannibals back then
Another thing I'd add is that studying the Kaballistic Jews is very interesting. They are far closer to a Hindu-esqu mystic belief. That the story of the garden is one of Divine consciousness giving birth to the individual ego. Even the use of parabals is very similar to Zen Buddhist teachings and Hindu mythology. Because in mystic terms the Divine cannot be split into "good and bad", those concepts are entirely human concepts, therefore characters like Satan etc. are purely metaphorical. One thing I recall from childhood is not understanding how could God not find Adam in the garden? In the Kaballa, it's because when Adam chooses individuality over Divinity, God can not longer see him, because his nature has changed from one of collaborative consciousness to individual consciousness. "Knowing good and bad". It's still all a metaphor, but I found that the most able to wrap my brain around explanation of them all.
From that standpoint, the NT reads so vastly different. Jesus story becomes very close to a Guru in an Ashram.
My agnosticism probably made me a more "spiritual" person than I ever was, because although I've learned to not take holy books at face value, I find it incredibly interesting the sort of underlying consistency in them all. You can pretty much find all the characters in another story, in another language, with another title and even a vastly different life lived, and yet the nature of that character remains. ("the heroes journey" possibly) I think the worst of their attributes is when they become consecrated into religions.
well maybe they should gtfo of Palestine then, thought their colonization of Palestina had some religious grounds or something. guess it's not even that
Out of Jacob seed was going to come the savior of all nations ,
It clearly said it’s Christ,
Galatians 3 : 16.
Now the promise were spoken to Abraham and to his seed,
It says “ not , and to seeds , as many ,
But in the case of one : and to your seed who is the Christ.
Abraham And Sarah had Issac ,
Genesis 22 : 17.
Your seed will take possession Of the gate of his enemies.
Christ will take control of Jerusalem, and rule .
Issac and Rebekah had Twins Jacob and Esau
Genesis 26 : 34.
Two nations We’re coming out of Rachael.
Jacob : Yahweh, loved
Jacob had 12 Sons
One was Josef whom married Mary ,
Luke 1 : 32.
Christ was going to sit on David throne.
David throne was here on earth.
Isaiah 9 : 7.
Matthew 24 : 48.
But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart,
My master is delaying,
49-50.
50. The master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect, and an hour he does not know.
.
The Jews were waiting for the messiah, and read he was coming to stay forever,
John 12 : 34.
Therefore the crowd answered him : “ We heard from the law that the Christ remains forever,!
And how is it you say that the son of man must be lifted up,?
Who is this son of man.
Christ could not rule on earth , yet. Because it’s ruled by Satan.
Now this is my assumption. Not Gods Word.
Revelation 21 : 2.
I saw also the Holy city, new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven,
10-14.
His next coming Will be kingdom from heaven.
Revelation 22 : 7.
And “ look, I’am coming quickly,
Revelation 22 : 20.
He that bears witness of these things says, “ Yes , I’am coming Quickly.”
.
I think Moses could have existed as a historic person, though the Biblical authors of the Old Testament overexaggerate and inflates his personality and actions to make the story seem even grander and more exciting than what it actually was, imbuing all of these supernatural elements into the tale to draw the reader or listener into the story. Did the authors believe that supernatural forces were at play in the actual events? They could have believed that. Most people in those days really believed in the supernatural and it was almost impossible to separate the natural world from the supernatural. In the minds of the ancients, the two worlds were constantly interacting with and influencing one another.
I'd say that the BOOK OF EXODUS is representative of a cultural memory of an historic incident (an exodus of Israelites from Egypt and a historical person (Moses, but was that his real name? I would say, we probably can't really know for sure?) that was heavily mythologized as time went by.
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The Israelites deviation from true worship is recorded in the OT. Anyone reading it knows that Israel had a history of going astray. No BIG SECRET.
You must be a JW. If you actually listened you’d hear it explained why it ends up being spun as you interpret.