Was Israel Polytheistic? With Dr. Kipp Davis
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- Опубликовано: 25 июн 2024
- Dive into the little-known polytheistic past of Ancient Israel with Dr. Kip Davis! In this episode, we unravel the historical and mythological tapestry woven into the Hebrew Bible. Uncover religious facts, debunk sacred myths, and explore an era where multiple gods reigned supreme. Join us for a historical journey spanning the Iron Age to the late monarchies, challenging everything you thought you knew about biblical times!
Sign up for the course here:
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Key points:
• 18 Lectures on Israel's religions
• Discussion of polytheistic worship
• Women's roles in ancient cults
• Commoners' religious practices
• Cross-pollination in Hebrew Bible
(disclaimer: Digital Hammurabi receives commission for any sign-ups using the above link)
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For general information and sources relating to the Ancient Near East, we recommend these websites:
ABZU - bit.ly/2Cr1A8u (collection of free and open-access data)
University of Chicago Oriental Institute - bit.ly/2RcIiMl (great collection of free books and articles)
Livius.org - bit.ly/2Gzj5rx (general encyclopedia on the ancient world)
ETCSL - bit.ly/2QJsAZS (Sumerian literature)
ORACC - bit.ly/2QJsL7u (collection of projects relating to Mesopotamia)
EPSD - bit.ly/2PY99aw (Online Sumerian dictionary)
CDLI - cdli.ucla.edu (Cuneiform Digital Library Initiative)
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Music: Brak Bnei Original Composition 
Развлечения
This is my FAVOURITE topic and has been the single greatest influence for me on my intellectual exploration of the things I was raised with. I wasn't raised as a fundie at all but I enjoy Christianity immensely more in light of the ancient Semitic pantheon.
I've watched Kipp's videos and he's a pretty unique fellow. His work is excellent but seeing it delivered with an 00s nu metal styling is bizarrely hilarious.
I look forward to buying this course.
To me it seems that the Old Testament is not so much about monotheism as that 'our God' is the best. To me the context clearly acknowledges that there are a number of gods. The doctrine is not so much that there is only 1 god, rather that, 'our God' is the most important and the 1 you should worship to the exclusion of the other gods.
I think the main reason they moved towards monotheism after the destruction of the first temple was to preserve Jewish identity. This was a group of people that had been conquered over and over again and they needed a single deity to focus on in order to preserve an identity.
@@Justin_Beaver564 could be, I don’t think they were as deliberate though. I am guessing that during captivity, it was only those who had a particularly strong religious fervor who survived and returned. The rest were assimilated. Perhaps only the followers of Yahweh returned.
@kungpaochicken5768
That’s actually a more insightful take than most people may realize. Even in more recent history, Koreans did something very similar during the imperial occupation by Japan, except that they instead established a united _ethnic_ identity in order to more effectively resist a common enemy at the time. The idea of a pure Korean ethnicity is still prevalent among older generations in Korea today, long after its purpose has lost all relevance, in spite of ample knowledge of constant intermarriage over the centuries. It may be a completely different element, but the purpose is essentially the same. It would seem that people tend toward these notions when they feel there is an urgent need for unity at all costs.
@@davidk7529 Yup, every tribe, city state and kingdom in the ancient world was identified by a different patron god or deity. What better way to unite a group of people than to unite them under the same god?
exactly, this guy is arguing against a straw man. The Hebrew Bible continuously acknowledges that Israelites are worshipping other gods - but asserts that is evil and should be suppressed. The Bible is advocacy for the “official religion” that admits that there is much dissent from it.
Wow, I am glad to see Dr. Kipp in Digital Hammurabi👍
I love the expertise that digital hammerabi brings to these issues abd questions
Megan I suggest you edit the video information to include your fill name to help search engines index off of you more reliably. Review all your videos for uniform usage of the names of participants and visibility to and links to Digital Hammurabi.
Hope this helps.
just bumping your algorithm, great channel and guest
Fascinating interview! I'll definitely be checking out the course
That was fascinating
Thank you 💛
Great guest.
The passages in Jeremiah 44 and 2 Kings 23 talk about many cultic objects including the Asherah pole, chariot wheels being dedicated to the sun god, 'cakes' being made with the image of Asherah on it, wine being poured out, incense being burned, etc. It also mentions Ba'al worship, the Asherah pole in the temple, people burning incense to the sun, the moon, the stars and 'all the stary hosts' which might refer to the moving planets which appeared to be alive in the sky because the background stars didn't move. 2 Kings also mentions male shrine prostitutes that were IN the Lord's temple (likely either for Ba'al worship) where a 'molek' or 'mlk' in the Hebrew sacrifice was made by 'passing your children thru the fire to molek. This might explain why the molek sacrifice of passing children thru the fire in Leviticus 18:21 is followed by the proscription against 'laying with a man like a man lays with a woman', found in the next verse in Leviticu 18:22. The fact that male shrine prostitutes are mentioned in the same passage as Ba'al worship would explain why Leviticus prohibited 'passing your children thru the fire to Molek' in one verse and then the very next verse, it says that men shouldn't have sex with other men. What I think is being said in Leviticus is that the men of Israel shouldn't participate in the cultic performative rituals (child sacrifice and fertility sex with male prostitutes) that are associated with Ba'al worship...
Would love to know the connections between The Phoenician gods and the Jewish God.
Is it true that the ancient Canaanites carried all of their instruments of worship around in Ba'al Sacks?
🤦🏻♀️
@@davidk7529Sense of humor?
Dr. Kipp with no hat? Wild!
Popped in to say hi!!
Hi!!!!!!!!!!!! ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
@@DigitalHammurabi I hope all is well !!
How do we find and read the text referred to at 5:32?
Thanks
@inspiring philosophy
great
Can you please allow us to include this video on playlists?
As soon as I work out how to do that, I will!
Any idea how to get a poster / reproduction of the Lion behind Megan and the story behind it?
I'm interested in this deity DuDu, potentially DuDul, possibly related to TuTu (? Marduk), and the connection to the name David. Lugal DuDul, from the 36th Zame Hymn, is worshipped in Iš, a location attested at Ebla, and also at Ebla, we have the first attestation of a name like Israel, as Iš-ra-il. Being that the iš logogram is eperum (hapiru, habbiru, Hebrew... which is why dust is so prevalent in the Hebrew scriptures, with characters even named Epher, for example), as well as šadu ("mountain" and possibly related to Shadday), as well as ṣihu ("laughter," cognate to thw word from which Isaac was derived), and being that the term El Shadday and the name Isaac are used in the same chapter of Genesis, and Abraham is the first of the haEbri...
Curious.
Also, is there anywhere I can read some analysis on the consonantal dissimilarity between the Hebrew word for ladder, sullam, and the Akkadian word for ladder, simmiltu, with consideration of the consonantal similarity between the Hebrew word for ladder, sullam, and ṣallummû, the Akkadian word for comet. In the context of the single usage of sullam a comet makes sense as the observed phenomenon.
The word Elohim changed over time. In Bronze Age Israel Elohim meant "Sons of God", whereas in Iron Age Israel (when the Yahwist uses Elohim) it means gods/goddesses.
No, I don't think so. While I would agree that at one time "Elohim" meant "gods," this meaning most likely passed out of use during the Iron Age. It is clearly, simply with reference to "god" throughout the Hebrew Bible, and, it never meant "sons of god."
@@DrKippDavis
Genesis 1 > Genesis 2
(Good > Evil)
God > LORD of God
(Elohim > Yahweh of Elohim)
Spirit of God > Spirit of the LORD
(Ruach Elohim > Ruach Yahweh)
Usurper: the LORD of God
Deciever: the LORD your God
Just as "Ruach Elohim" from Genesis 1 is "Spirit of God" and not "Spirit God", "Yahweh Elohim" from Genesis 2 is "LORD of God" and not "LORD God".
As if some Yahu from Edom and Seir (judges 5, deut 33) is the LORD of God...
Seriously, Doc Kill, you can't see the character from Genesis 2 for the usurper/deciever it is?
Have you noted the differences between usages of Ruach Elohim (Spirit of God) and Ruach Yahweh (Spirit of the LORD) in the OT? They're polar opposite Spirits from polar opposite entities...I can link you a bunch of differences if you'd like.
@DrKippDavis
Here are seven differences between "Ruach Elohim" and "Ruach Yahweh" as they appear in the Names of God (NOG) translation of the Bible:
1. "Ruach Elohim" is first mentioned in Genesis 1:2, where it is translated as "God's Spirit." "Ruach Yahweh" is first mentioned in Judges 3:10, where it is translated as "the LORD's Spirit."
2. "Ruach Elohim" is used throughout the Old Testament to describe the Spirit of God in general, while "Ruach Yahweh" is often used specifically in reference to the Spirit of God acting in a prophetic or empowering way, as in Judges 14:6 where Samson is "filled with the Spirit of Yahweh" to defeat a lion.
3. "Ruach Elohim" is sometimes used to describe the breath of life given to all creatures, as in Job 34:14-15 where it says that if God were to "gather back his breath [ruach]," all life would perish. "Ruach Yahweh" is not used in this sense.
4. In some passages, the two terms are used interchangeably. For example, in Isaiah 61:1, the Spirit of the Lord [Ruach Yahweh] is said to be upon the prophet, while in Ezekiel 11:5, the same phrase is translated as "the Spirit of God [Ruach Elohim] came upon me."
5. "Ruach Yahweh" is associated with the creation of humans in Genesis 2:7, where it says that Yahweh "breathed the breath [ruach] of life into [Adam's] nostrils." "Ruach Elohim" is not used in this context.
6. "Ruach Yahweh" is associated with the work of the Messiah in Isaiah 11:2, where it is said that "the Spirit of Yahweh will rest on him." "Ruach Elohim" is not used in this passage.
7. "Ruach Elohim" is used in the New Testament to refer to the Holy Spirit, as in Luke 3:22 where the Spirit descends on Jesus at his baptism "in bodily form like a dove." "Ruach Yahweh" is not used in the New Testament.
Here are seven more differences between "Ruach Elohim" and "Ruach Yahweh" in the Names of God (NOG) translation of the Bible:
1. "Ruach Elohim" is used in Psalm 51:11 where David asks God not to take his Spirit away from him, whereas "Ruach Yahweh" is not used in this context.
2. "Ruach Yahweh" is associated with dreams and visions in Numbers 12:6, where it says that Yahweh spoke to Moses in a dream and a vision, "but not like [He spoke] to [His] servant Moses, who had a close relationship with [Yahweh]." "Ruach Elohim" is not used in this passage.
3. "Ruach Elohim" is used in 1 Samuel 10:10 where it says that the Spirit of God came upon Saul and he prophesied along with a group of prophets. "Ruach Yahweh" is not used in this context.
4. "Ruach Yahweh" is associated with judgment in Isaiah 4:4, where it says that Yahweh will "wash away the filth of Zion's people...by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of burning." "Ruach Elohim" is not used in this context.
5. "Ruach Elohim" is used in Job 33:4 where Elihu says that "the Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life." "Ruach Yahweh" is not used in this passage.
6. Ruach Yahweh" is associated with the exodus from Egypt in Isaiah 63:14, where it says that "the Spirit of Yahweh led [the Israelites] through the desert." "Ruach Elohim" is not used in this context.
7. Ruach Elohim" is used in 1 Corinthians 2:10-11 where Paul speaks of the Holy Spirit revealing God's wisdom to believers. "Ruach Yahweh" is not used in this passage.
Um Elohim never meant "sons of God" it just means the plural gods or the singular God when used with a singular verb (as in Genesis 1). Sons of God is the word bene elohim (בני האלהים). Also, what do you mean bronze age Isreal? There wasn't really a bronze age Isreal, as they began to form around the end of the bronze age.
@donkey-headed fraud from Edom and Seir Yes Elohim were sons of El, but you made it seem as if the name Elohim meant Sons of God in which it doesn't. El later became a generic title meaning God but was originally associated with the high God El from Ugarit who had 70 sons, likely where you are getting this notion from. What Iron Age nonsense am I quoting? Be specific, please.
❤❤❤
"Israelites" are just people from Canaan who followed a polytheistic religion based on Baal and El but they were taken captive by Nebuchadnezzar. In Mesopotamia, they came in contact with and copied the Sumerian flood myth and the Code of Hammurabi and the story of Sargon the Akkadian but most importantly later on they would take monotheism from the Persians.
It is in Mesopotamia that the Bible and the Talmud were first compiled and Judaism was created. Some of these people would return to Canaan where they found other Canaanites who had not been captives of Babylon, they called them "Samaritans."
As a result the Jews had two major traditions they had to amalgamate: the Moses out of Egypt origin and the Abraham out of Mesopotamia origin.
I am not a historian but I believe this best explains the weird phenomenon of the Jewish people and religion.
As a non-academic that's pretty much my understanding as well. As best I understand it though the Zoroastrian/Mesopotamian influence was overwhelmingly dominant (the merger in Canaan wasn't a meeting of equals).
What's up from Holy Koolaid!
0:14 just a quick question. Is it Dr Megan Lewis and Dr Joshua Bowen actually?
If so, then why doesn't the card say so? Or am I wrong in thinking that Megan Lewis has a doctorate?
You're wrong :) I left grad school before I completed my Ph.D.
@@DigitalHammurabi you rebel! :)
Well, I've learned something today!
well, yeah. JHVH was just some mountain god who got too big for their britches
Man, I hate arrogant gods who think they're god.
“Shut up and take my money!” &c. &c.
Does this include the Jewish mercernaries on the ile of Elephantine. Btw, they sold chametz at Pesach
Such ripping enthusiasm.
Megan, you're just great. Congrats. I've got a question for you: please, answer me: have you made a video about the mythical life o Jesus. so-called Christ?
How many gods has man created? And killed most of them?
They all die when their usefulness expires… likewise, Yahweh’s days are numbered.
It’s all just people making age-old excuses to glorify themselves anyway.
Wait at 9:15 bro is romanticizing polytheism ??
Bible never hid that Hebrews often had other gods.
It does hide that the Hebrew god was a limited, subservient deity in a pantheon.
@@Kyeudo all countries of that time assumed their nation god was superior
Yes it is true that the Israelites at different time’s worshipped other gods, The true God of Israel told us about it,
This is the same God that told us Orion has gravity 2600 odd years before man found out,
Job 38:31
“Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?”
Isaiah 2:8
“Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made:”
The same true God told us that the kingdom of Tyre was not that Little Rock near modern Sidon everyone presumes is Tyre, but a kingdom that went all the way to Syria, that the greatest King of the time Nebuchadnezzar could not defeat for 13 years, everyone forgets that sea levels are rising since the worldwide flood, and there is underwater archeology all around the world, including part of true ancient Tyre in Syria,
Acts 21:3
“Now when we had discovered Cyprus, we left it on the left hand, and sailed into Syria, and landed at Tyre: for there the ship was to unlade her burden.”
It’s understandable that people dont believe in the true God of Israel, the Bible clearly explains that as well,
What’s not understandable is everyone accepts the billions of dollars natural history museums , universities, governments, Smithsonians, most media, spend trying to say nothing exploded, became a rock, then crawled out of the sea , became an ape, then us, when the most certain scientific fact on earth is that life always comes from life .
The “true God” myth that Genesis says “created” fruit trees BEFORE creating the sun? Genesis also describes countless murders and other immoral acts ordered by that god. Or do you trust other sources to describe the “true god?”
Did you seriously just comment without even watching the video…?
You’re quoting from the collection of books that have already been shown to be a pitifully inadequate and purely biased source of information on the people and religions of the time.
Even in those books that you’re relying on, the terms used indicate that this “one true god” merely demanded that status for himself from among the other gods, and the Israelites went on to use that claim to impose their own dominance over the nations around them… which was not even a novel strategy. Watch some of the other videos on this channel to learn about the other cases of monotheistic claims and how it gained popularity.
Interesting to note the Sky last night New Moon had -
The woman - the dragon - the Child - or SUN - SON being taken up to the CREATOR.
THE WOMAN - SHE being Anat - Aanath - Athena - The GODDESS of Heaven =
Mary (meaning of Mary is Priestess ) Magdalene -
(The Magdelene was actually called / named Farah - from a very wealthy family
and SHE studied at the Egypt School of Mystery with THE MASTER Yahshua / Yah / Jesus)
SHE also = Esther -& Joan de Arc
[ there were 3 One Magdalene, & 2 exact clones sent - they all died to save the country]
(Joann in Polish is an quite interesting study as Joan - Jo-an - Joann Joanna are nick names actually)
& also LADY GODIVA or Lady GOD DIVA etc. etc. etc. to serve the poor. Heaven CARES!
SHE who is part of THE TREE OF LIFE [ another excellent study THE TREE OF LIFE]
as one of the first Reflection LIGHTS created.
SHE - being Jophiel / Haniel the # 7 & # 6 - the colors Yellow or Green.
Such Names are to show THE OFFICE held.
Like a name put on a door here into an OFFICE such as Manager.
Or, Assistant Manager.
SHE is also Commander over 53 Legions of Angels in the Army of CREATOR
serving with Archangel Michael and HIS Legions of Angels in the Army of CREATOR.
We were told the ELECT will be here in the last days. Also, the ELECT does incarnate to make sure any 'promise' given is done correctly and at the correct Divine timing.
IF any human being were to engage in keeping the 'promises', they would need be judged while the ELECT was JUDGED before, therefore not judged. As the CREATOR is Fair & Loving it is up to the ELECT.
Thank you for your excellent video's. Much love....
Joe coming from Ibrahim and he son Sargon of akkidin
Yes, the Bible clearly states that the Israelites time and again turned towards many other gods besides the one true God, and it also showed the consequences of that action
Yes, the currently available version of a carefully contrived collection of heavily redacted religious texts _would_ tell you that, and deliberately leave out all information to the contrary.
Meanwhile, in terms of the information provided in _this_ video… have you even watched it yet?
Josiah sucked, he went Anti kaneh Bosm, yhwh was not pleased.
Tell us about freemasons in ancient times 🙏
This is a great explanation about why God sent the Israelites into slavery multiple times.
lol
@@joachim847 "lol" - understandable. Yet the original poster's claim is not inconsistent with what Dr. Davis described. One can fully accept the archeological record that the (local) Iron-Age "Israel" continued with the polytheism of bronze-age Canaan, and believe that is why the one god which was a real god, YHWH, decided to destroy the iron-age Israelite kingdoms.
@@TheDanEdwards Yeah, I wasn't mocking the post or anything. I just thought it was funny. While I'm here, allow me to plug Margaret Barker's work. Her reconstruction of first-temple Hebrew religion is astounding.
*palestine
Anachronism
The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible.The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God-three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who are God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:
1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).
2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.
In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus’ baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are other examples of passages that present three distinct Persons in the Trinity.
3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also the other instances when Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity-the Father.
4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).
5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply something our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.
6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus’ human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.
The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.
The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus’ works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.
There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.
The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are clearly presented in God’s Word, some of the side issues are not as explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God-but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on God’s greatness and His infinitely higher nature. “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34).
_["The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain."]_
It's a relatively simple concept to understand. It's a contradiction. It violates every law of logic. It is an impossibility. It is one more reason why the god of mainstream Christianity cannot exist.
_["God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him."]_
Your god is a very simple concept. It is a father figure writ as large as possible. So large, in fact, that it becomes self-contradictory.
_["The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God."]_
The Bible is not univocal. In places, such as in the writings of Paul, Jesus became god via obedience. In the Gospel According to John, Jesus was always a god. In other places, Jesus is not a god, but god's adopted son. The "Holy Spirit" doesn't get mentioned much outside of the book of Acts.
_["However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible."]_
The Trinity concept is a derivative of Greek philosophy adopted because Christian theologians didn't like the idea of being polytheists. It isn't found anywhere in the Bible. The reason the Trinity is false is because it cannot exist in reality.
_[" In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used."]_
Yes, because in the first of the two contradictory creation stories, your god is just one of a council of gods making the universe in the cosmic ocean.
_["The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church."]_
It's a later development that doesn't show up in the earliest Christian sects. Paul, for example, didn't believe in the Trinity. Paul was closer to Arianism.
_["we would be better served by focusing on God’s greatness and His infinitely higher nature."]_
We would be better served by Christians realizing that their god is contradicted by reality and abandoning their faith. The actual god described in the Bible is not great. He is a petty, spiteful monster who is overly fond of genocide, torture, slavery, misogyny, and bigotry.
@Kyeudo you're an intellectual person from what I can read, but I can also read that a majority of your thoughts on the matter haven't actually come from the Bible. For instance, the Holy Spirit not being mentioned except from Acts onward is completely incorrect. When Jesus is baptized in the Gospels, the Holy Spirit comes down, and then God the Father acknowledges Jesus as his son to everyone present. At the end of John, the great commission is to go throughout the world, spread the gospel, and do so in the name of the father son and the Holy Spirit. Even your conceptions on God's nature are flawed. Where does he call for genocide, or slavery or any of the other things that you mentioned? If you read the Bible it isn't there, when you read the context.
@@mr.graves2867
_["you're an intellectual person from what I can read, but I can also read that a majority of your thoughts on the matter haven't actually come from the Bible."]_
Doesn't matter. Nothing written in your scriptures changes that the Trinity is impossible and so doesn't exist. Reality trumps religious fantasy.
_["For instance, the Holy Spirit not being mentioned except from Acts onward is completely incorrect."]_
That's not what I said. Read it again.
_["Where does he call for genocide, or slavery or any of the other things that you mentioned?"]_
Where does he call for or commit genocide? Many times. Your god supposedly committed the genocides of the flood of Noah, the destruction of Soddom and Gomorrah, and the killing of all the firstborn of the Egyptians, among other mass killings. He then also ordered the genocide of:
the Canaanites
the Amalekites
the Midianites
the Moabites
the people of Bashan
the people of Hesbon
the people of Jericho
the Gibeonites
the people of Makkedah
the people of Libnah
the people of Lachish
the people of Eglon
the people of Hebron
the people of Debir
the people of Negev
the Hittites
the Amorites
the Perizzites
the Hivites
and the Jebusites.
I've probably missed some.
Saul was stripped of the kingship because he wasn't genocidal enough.
As for slavery, your god is very clear that he not only condones it but commands it. Leviticus 25:44-46 - "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."
Exodus 21:20-21 - "Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property."
Deuteronomy 20:10-15 - "When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby."
As for torture, you may have heard of hell. It's one of the most famous doctrines of Christianity. It involves the eternal conscious torment of everyone who doesn't believe impossible things on insufficient evidence, which is billions of humans.
As for misogyny, do you really want me to go through the numerous places in the Bible where women are treated as property? Are treated as unclean because of their biology? Are treated as less than a man?
_["If you read the Bible it isn't there, when you read the context."]_
No, when you read the Bible and understand the context, it gets even worse.
@Kyeudo The fact that God commanded the killing of entire nations in the Old Testament has been the subject of harsh criticism from opponents of Christianity for some time. That there was violence in the Old Testament is indisputable. The question is whether Old Testament violence is justifiable and condoned by God. In his bestselling book The God Delusion, atheist Richard Dawkins refers to the God of the Old Testament as “a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser.” Journalist Christopher Hitchens complains that the Old Testament contains a warrant for “indiscriminate massacre.” Other critics of Christianity have leveled similar charges, accusing Yahweh of “crimes against humanity.”But are these criticisms valid? Is the God of the Old Testament a “moral monster” who arbitrarily commands genocide against innocent men, women, and children? Was His reaction to the sins of the Canaanites and the Amalekites a vicious form of “ethnic cleansing”? Or is it possible that God could have had morally sufficient reasons for ordering the destruction of these nations?A basic knowledge of Canaanite culture reveals its inherent moral wickedness. The Canaanites were a brutal, aggressive people who engaged in bestiality, incest, and even child sacrifice. Deviant sexual acts were the norm. The Canaanites’ sin was so repellent that God said, “The land vomited out its inhabitants” (Leviticus 18:25). Even so, the destruction was directed more at the Canaanite religion (Deuteronomy 7:3-5; 12:2-3) than at the Canaanite people per se. The judgment was not ethnically motivated. Individual Canaanites, like Rahab in Jericho, could still find that mercy follows repentance (Joshua 2). God’s desire is that the wicked turn from their sin rather than die (Ezekiel 18:31-32; 33:11).Besides dealing with national sins, God used the conquest of Canaan to create a religious/historical context in which He could eventually introduce the Messiah to the world. This Messiah would bring salvation not only to Israel, but also to Israel’s enemies, including Canaan (Psalm 87:4-6; Mark 7:25-30).It must be remembered that God gave the Canaanite people more than sufficient time to repent of their evil ways-over 400 years! The book of Hebrews tells us that the Canaanites were “disobedient,” which implies moral culpability on their part (Hebrews 11:31). The Canaanites were aware of God’s power (Joshua 2:10-11; 9:9) and could have sought repentance. Except in rare instances, they continued their rebellion against God until the bitter end.But didn’t God also command the Israelites to kill non-combatants? The biblical record is clear that He did. Here again, we must remember that, while it is true the Canaanite women did not fight, this in no way means they were innocent, as their seductive behavior in Numbers 25 indicates (Numbers 25:1-3). However, the question still remains: what about the children? This is not an easy question to answer, but we must keep several things in mind. First, no human person (including infants) is truly innocent. The Scripture teaches that we are all born in sin (Psalm 51:5; 58:3). This implies that all people are morally culpable for Adam’s sin in some way. Infants are just as condemned from sin as adults are.Second, God is sovereign over all of life and can take it whenever He sees fit. God and God alone can give life, and God alone has the right to take it whenever He so chooses. In fact, He ultimately takes every person’s life at death. It is not our life to begin with but God’s. While it is wrong for us to take a life, except in instances of capital punishment, war, and self-defense, this does not mean that it is wrong for God to do so. We intuitively recognize this when we accuse some person or authority who takes human life as “playing God.” God is under no obligation to extend anyone’s life for even another day. How and when we die is completely up to Him.Third, an argument could be made that it would have been cruel for God to take the lives of all the Canaanites except the infants and children. Without the protection and support of their parents, the infants and small children were likely to face death anyway due to starvation. The chances of survival for an orphan in the ancient Near East were not good.Finally, the children of Canaan would have likely grown up sympathetic to the evil religions their parents had practiced. It was time for the culture of idolatry and perversion to end in Canaan, and God wanted to use Israel to end it. Also, the orphaned children of Canaan would naturally have grown up resentful of the Israelites. Likely, some would have later sought to avenge the “unjust” treatment of their parents and return Canaan to paganism.It’s also worth considering the eternal state of those infants killed in Canaan. If God took them before the age of moral accountability, then they went straight to heaven (as we believe). Those children are in a far better place than if they had lived into adulthood as Canaanites.Surely, the issue of God commanding violence in the Old Testament is difficult. However, we must remember that God sees things from an eternal perspective, and His ways are not our ways (Isaiah 55:8-9). The apostle Paul tells us that God is both kind and severe (Romans 11:22). While it is true that God’s holy character demands that sin be punished, His grace and mercy remain extended to those who are willing to repent and be saved. The Canaanite destruction provides us with a sober reminder that, while our God is gracious and merciful, He is also a God of holiness and wrath.
The first religions were monotheist, like it would matter if Israel was polytheistic, it doesn't
How does anyone know? Genesis describes trees being “created” before the sun. And mass murders commonly caused by “a god of love?” Really?
@@DM-zq8qy blasphemist, and the genesis days aren't literal 24 hour days, it all happend at once
Do you have any evidence to support that claim? The oldest recorded religion is that of Sumer, dating from before 2900 BCE, and is polytheistic. The earliest monotheistic religion that I'm aware of is Zoroastrianism which, in its monotheistic form, dates to ca. 1000 BCE (this religion is believed to have been a revision of an earlier polytheistic one).