Demon Fe: Talk It Out? (ft ISTP)
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- Опубликовано: 24 сен 2024
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What I’ve noticed with the ISTPs in my life (friends and my dad) is that I have to get them talking while on the move. It could be in the car, on a hike, on a bike ride, on a sail boat, as long as they are in motion the emotions can come up. It’s like you have to give their savoir function a mindless occupation to get TiSe out of the way. Music is the second trigger, obviously. And I’ve also had great emotionally charged conversations after a movie with them. A ENFJ/ISTP couple I know sometimes take MDMA
With my Istp Dad, I can only do that when I notice something that he's feeling and saying what's on his mind. If it's too late then it becomes an awkward situation or I take what he's feeling out of context. But I do feel this pressure from him of already know what he is feeling rather then trying to get him to talk about it.
Exactly.
I haven't thought about it, but your right. I'm much more willing to discuss such things when I'm busy doing something else than when I'm stationary. I don't know why. I never thought about me doing that until I read your comment. Interesting insight.
@@TheNicMMc You're right, there's a timing to it.
@@VTdarkangel I do the same with my demons. Much easier to ST organize my week if I'm on Adobe Illustrator and I can trick my brain into thinking it's just another NF art project! Sneaking in demons through the side-door might not be the ultimate strategy, but it sure peels off a couple of layers of self-consciousness and repugnance.
RIP mailman
He resigned
Fi saviors crying in the club right now
Noah McFarlin Ahahaha poor mailman
Yeah that’s what I was thinking😂 what did he do to deserve this, he was just trying to bring the mail 😭
Mail carriers are likely above average intelligence. There is extensive written testing. I took that test. It is like an Si quotient test. So if you want the best ISFJ / ISTJ opinion, grab a post man. SI is a type of intelligence.
ISTP here. Personally I agree with needing multiple people to talk to (not just the wife) but not on "anyone will do, give me the idiots"
due to trust issues, it has to be quality people. It cant be just anyone, for many reasons.
1) I dont want to make a stranger uncomfortable. that just makes me feel worse. i DO care how i effect people. and if i give someone a bad experience, thatll be one more stupid demon FE thing i need to talk out with someone else.
2) If the person im talking to doesnt understand what im feeling, or doesnt agree, or makes me feel worse about it-- then not only did that not work, but it made it 2x worse and now i feel like i need twice the quality people to talk it out with where initially i might've only needed one, or i might've had an easier time smothering it into dust than before.
so yeah, not just any idiot will do. There are people ive known for years who i cant talk to about anything more important than a fart joke. And then there have been strangers that have held the answers to the universe.
I feel like the key here is just having a lot of people you can go to. And not ever just settling on One.
Find yourself an INFP to vent to, they'll know exactly what you need & heal you, plus you can trust them!
INTP here, hard agree. Riding that Ti, the most unproductive thing I could possibly do to confront demon Fe is to have someone come along and proverbially bust rocks with their head trying and failing to think their way around what they perceive to be a problem while I'm having a rare vulnerable moment. Like, Ti is my jam, please don't insult me by making a hopeless, shoddy attempt at trying to Ti at my Fe.
Similarly to you, I've somehow(?) managed to organise my circles into appropriate talk spaces. Some are just the fart jokes, while some like my INFP sister are able to cut through my infinite loops like butter - while I talk her down from the roof over malfunctioning technology.
I'll happily take the idiots to briefly entertain me perhaps, but certainly not for anything of any kind of value.
Perhaps the biggest challenge for immature INTPs and ISTPs is managing to put the weirdness aside for long enough to build and maintain a broad circle to later tap into.
@@ShaleNinja Yo that’s not the point, the point is to get out of your Ti head and vent. Leave that productive bs out for a bit.
@@ShaleNinja Ti/Ni, Strong agree on the "don't try to solve my problem" thing. Having to listen to someone who doesn't understand my problem blasting about some stuff that I've already been processing for weeks, at a much deeper level, is not what I need. You're just draining my social battery to produce nothing but noise, which is not what I need in a crisis. I need an emotional expert to help with the feelings, who understands this idiotic demon Fe thing where you have to talk in circles around what you really feel before you can gradually admit what you really feel because the "tribe" (represented by this one other person) is giving you permission.
It's funny because even though I understand it for myself, I will still 100% be the blockhead idiot trying to Ti-solve the problem of anyone who's Fe-processing. Even if I know that's not what they want. I don't speak the Fe language I can't provide that. I'm an idiot with this. Sorry.
@@SimpleAmadeus my new istp friend talked about how annoying his mother is and how her making jokes about him is very hurtful to him, cause his inferior fe don't like people judging him ...is that a big thing to reveal ?
"Ti would be embarassed by going in a circle and venting emotions "
the hardest coiches require the strongest wills
That’s the thing, right? Once they get rolling and realize they’re ALL embarrassed, that’s when they can really be there for each other and gain a lot from being in the group
Fe Demon. I get my emotions out in music. I try to get to this place where I'm improvising the lyrics based on my own emotions - so I don't have to share, but it still comes out.
Other people's music helps too.
i do the same, identic, thing. I feel it as a sort of filter I can use to show my emotion without actually showing them
ISTP and same. I can’t write lyrics, or music in general, but playing the piano is a hugely helpful way to process emotions
Woah! I just realized I do this. There’s a song I play on the piano that I can’t play now because it makes me cry because I associate it with my ex.
And I recreate these fantasy scenarios in my head when I listen to music that are emotionally charged.
Are we allowed to do that and call it developing Fe? Maybe I just need to do that more and I won’t have to talk to people.
I think my demon Fe spouse processes emotions at the bar.
Go with her to AA meetings even if she fights it for a while. It is so supportive for dealing with emotions. A lot of neat, intelligent people go there. They have been humbled and so God blesses them. It’s a great place to be.
I didn't mean dependence on alcohol, although alcohol can ease up on the high self control. I just meant time over a beer and talking with "regulars"...
Dy Dayton, OK
"Te" can go bad as well, when you're talking out in realtime ideas about virus cures on live TV
😂😂😂😂😂😂
🤣😂🤣
Lmao truee
@Hollo0o Well.. someone just heard sunlight (UV) and certain cleaning agents worked wonders on surfaces contaminated with virus, and started thinking out loud about how that'd work inside the body. If you really want to see the clip just search for "injecting bleach". Everyone had a field day teasing this particular "Te" realtime brainstorm for sure.
Using Ti im ready to walk to hell and back to understand and solve my own problems. I find it nearly addicting to solve without the help of others, so theres no motivation to talk anything out ever. But at the same time im not resistive, so if anyone helps I welcome them. It just seems unnecessary, yet its ever so helpful in so many ways
You are so lucky, I would kill to have someone to Te with when comes to learning hard subjects like Tax Reforms and Car Loan Contracts but I have a really difficult time absorbing what teachers are saying to me, and can't tell you how jealous I feel towards others that can learn from just listening to lectures. Even if the subject is 100% NF related, I would still feel lost and confused.
Demon Fe here
I've learned few years ago that talking out my emotions makes me identify them more efficiently, and sometimes makes me realize how absurd they are.
But I don't really need someone to listen, I can just talk it out, out loud, that's enough for me. Having a bottled up emotions is not the right way to go, so like my Ti, I talk to myself about them, only I need to do that with an actual voice and not just in my head.
Lmao, I do that too, I go on angry rants to myself all the time
@@Brad-hw2iq #team_no_people_needed 🌚
Lol same. Some people have even noticed me doing that, kinda awkward when that happens
I'm Fe dom and I do this too also playing it like a scenarios in my head if I don't wanna talk it out loud
This reminds me of Fightclub like how Edward Norton (Tyler Durden) and Helena (Marla Singer) compete in looking out for the best tearjerker meetings to blow all their bottled up steam every night. I'd say those were Demon Fe's to the extreme competing to win the tribe's validation. The intellectually sophisticated plan and by laws created by the main character in fightclub is a glaring Savior Ti. Hence, the smartest guys in town are haunted by their inability to make a healthy system of expressing out those emotions and getting the tribe on their side.
The fight club movie speaks to my core. INTP
I was thinking about the same thing.
I'm NeTiFeSi. I pay for a therapist to just listen and validate my feelings.
same
I just wanna say, that this is an incredibly important video to me. I now realize, that not being able to share emotions with anyone has been the most consistent problem in my life and I didn't even realize it until now. I could say that writing down my emotions and listening to/making music is my outlet, but if I'm being honest, it's just not as effective. I really just need a tribe I can Fe with. Or multiple tribes for different Fe.
Pouring yourself out to someone feels amazing. 90% of your stress will disappear. And if you don't, you'll feel utterly miserable, beyond miserable sometimes. You have to speak to someone, and frequently.
ISTP here. My routine is that I meditate at the end of the day and if there was something during the day that angered me, I relive it in my head and change the memory into what I wanted to happen, while breathing deeply. Then I'm at peace with the world and can go to bed relaxed. It's like taking a shower to clean your body before going to bed, except you clean your mind. Try that, it costs nothing and you can do it every day.
I'd say revieweing the memory and thinking of other ways you would have liked the situation to go would allow for growth, but changing the memory just to feel better is a form of self-delusion which would result in the same thing occuring over and over becasue you are not processing and learning from the emotions/situation.
Reframing painful/uncomfortable memories is a very helpful tool (NLP), to avoid destructive rumination. I do think it's helpful and cathartic to allow your feeling responses the right to exist, before moving on. Depending on the individual, given emotional safety, distance and objectivity, the past event could be analysed. Runs the risk of re-traumatising if your current response to the event... finding an appropriate cptsd coach/therapist could help with trauma/ recurrent patterns.
I am savior Ti and demon Fe, and I experienced a lot of death in my childhood including both my parents and I absolutely should have gone to therapy but I am SUPER uncomfortable talking about my emotions even though I absolutely have them. If I feel something, I have to dissect it, find out where it came from, what purpose it serves, is it useful for learning and growth and then I move on from it. People who can just sit in their feelings and feel is the same to me as a kid sitting in a shitty diaper all day. No thanks.
I felt that crappy diaper analogy.
You're doing it wrong!
You're not gonna like this. As Ti/Ne, I tend mostly to try figure myself out by talking to myself in the shower, or before I sleep for weeks or months on end. And then I go to my group of friends to share these (mostly self-effacing) insights and they get knocked down in 2 seconds. And then rinse and repeat. I tend to try and find causes to emotional issues, which I know you guys recomend not to do, and build these theories about myself, both as a person and as I am percieved. If that provides any insight on the default way Ti's might attempt to deal with this, or the equillibria we might fall into after several attempts.
I think not all Ti/Ne or even Ti/Si would be a fan of doing this at the minimum tbh, you’re still doing a genuine form of self reflection where not many people are able to do so. I would imagine that INTPs also have moments of mental skips? Similar to like an Fe savior having moments of emotional skips where they actually suck at Fe. Definitely met a few of Fe saviors that are convinced they are good people, it’s especially awkward with xSFJs..
With Savior Fe, it definitely is certain people for certain things. You need people who you're certain will share your values/accept your thoughts on a specific topic. I will talk to a friend A about topic A and to a friend B about topic B but probably won't mix topic A with friend B and vice versa because they may clash on values. You need to give yourself a safe environment to talk out feelings.
XD i thought it was the obvious thing to do haha now i understand it's because i am saviour Fe!
I’m ISTP but same. I didn’t realize I do this until recently though
Same!! Lol 😂
Oh oh oh!! I get it now!! So, you're supposed to first do the Fe work of asking and figuring out what people value beforehand so that then you can have for yourself a safe environment in which to drop your emotional baggage, right?! That's brilliant!! I feel like I just discovered america in a glass of water, but that's Fe demon for you xD THANK YOU MY WHOLE LIFE JUST MAKES SENSE NOW!!!!
Journaling has helped me ALOT with processing my feelings, once I've understood them a little, i feel better about sharing with close friends
Ti savior here and I relate to this so much, especially not dumping your emotional baggage on only your wife. I ran into tons of trouble because my therapist told me “don’t talk to your friends about your wife unless you would say the same things to her.” He was trying to communicate not to hide things from her or talk shit about her if that meant I was avoiding issues that needed to be addressed. But I took it and turned it into “I just won’t talk about my feelings to anyone because if I can’t dump it on her, and if it’s disrespectful to dump things ABOUT her onto my friends, then I need to figure my own shit out.” What a mistake. I’ve found that you guys as Te users say “I don’t need a top 5. I’ll make do with what I have,” but Ti users need at least 5 to even have a team! I am very picky on who I talk to because of what Shan said about “I don’t want to talk to a fucking idiot.” I have 3 absolutely close friends and it’s now my job to find a few more so that I feel like I’m splitting my burden accordingly
Hi there! I've been following you for some time and I first wanted to thank you for your content :)
I'm a French INTP woman. I've been checking and checking to be sure... I am an INTP (in awe of ENFPs and ISTJs) and I guess I'm not a jumper (not sure about that). This particular video is really fascinating: hearing Te dom trying to figure out how the heck Demon Fe can manage itself is quite hilarous.
Here is a part of my story: my dad is an ENFJ, so from a very young age I had an example of what Fe dom (healthy Fe in his case) really is (although I only figured this all out later) and I'm a woman, which puts me under Society's pressure to be more in tune with F stuff. With all that, my Demon Fe is now more of a cute gremlin than a real demon (not quite tamed but well documented and not that dangerous). I have several ways of dealing with it: like you with ideas, I talk my emotions out. Most of the time, I do this with several persons, again like you do with your Te. What's more, I can even talk to myself in the shower or in front of a mirror to hack myself into understanding my own feelings and emotions. The bizarre thing is, when I do this, most of the time I do it in English (I think and talk in English, not in French which is my mother tongue). It's as if voicing my emotions in another language makes them easier to identify.
There, food for ideas from a Ti dom :)
My fucking God. This is so relatable. English is not my mother tongue either and when I'm talking to myself, especially about my emotions, I always do it in English.
I guess it's also an Fe way; extroverted, not very deeply-thought, just for the sake of getting it out. A Fi would probably do it in their mother tongue.
I also do it in a way that I "learned" from my Fe-dom friend whose mother tongue is English. So I'm probably just mimicking her ways to talk my emotions out. But who cares, it works 😂
Also paying to a therapist to get your emotions heard and validated is a good option. So you won't end up feeling like "my partner didn't validate my negative emotions about him, I'm never doing it again to anyone".
Holy hell. I'm also an INTP woman and I also can process my emotions better in english!! Instead of talking to a mirror, I do a lot of journalling.
Fellow INTP women here. I often have to use an emotional vibration scale which helps me further understand where I'm at emotionally.
I never ever ever ever share emotions. 1. I hate emotions. 2. I don’t understand emotions. 3. I don’t have strong emotions to many things I should. 4. People are annoying when they talk about their emotions. 5. I hate letting people know how I feel. I’d rather let them know what I think, which is almost the same. 6. I don’t wanna annoy people, even if they want to know. 7. I will never sit in a group and talk about emotions.
Hopefully you will get out of this type of thinking before you crash super badly. You need to process emotions. It's the nasty stuff you need to get your hands in.
Get a good dog and start there. Dogs are great for allowing us to show affection and talk things out. Then interacting with people gets easier. Don’t worry about groups. Just start with one person. Happiness requires accepting the good and the bad of feelings but it is worth it.
You explode every now and then. You don't lie to us. Let me tell you: YOUR EMOTIONS ARE WORSE THAN OURS. Because we let them out more frequently.
I’m constantly thinking out loud. Sometimes I don’t even realise I’m talking until someone asks me who I’m talking to, or I’ll be thinking and my lips will be silently forming words.
I’ll talk out arguments for or against something, I’ll talk out what I’m doing, I’ll talk out ideas, I’ll talk out my reactions to what someone says (irl or in a video or in a thing I’m reading).
I feel a thought is not complete until I say it, or at least write it down.
I talk more when I’m feeling strong emotions. I think it’s a coping mechanism.
Depression is a mental illness, it’s a scourge on my life. To say that *everyone* goes through this is frankly insulting. It’s like telling a type 1 diabetic “oh everyone struggles with diabetes hurr durr” STFU
I'm a Fe user and I do the same, expressing emotions are figuring them out is one of the helpful things to do to makes you analyze what went wrong and what went right
I don't think he was trying to trivialize depression. I think he was saying that you don't need to be ashamed of it or feel weak because everyone can understand it.
There's a difference between clinical depression and what Dave and Shan were discussing. Clinical depression is truly a mental illness. They were discussing the more ordinary depression that people go through when something is wrong in their life and they don't know what it is and/or don't know what to do about it.
I’m an ENFP and I talk to myself 24/7. Quite a therapeutic hobby- started it as a joke, and now my Te rambles on and on very naturally. I’ve found I don’t actually need people to listen; I just need to talk as if they’re there. I never knew it could feel similar with people who use Fe.
Fe demon here (INTP), I have worked so hard at this. I take that critical lens of Ti analysis and turn it into myself. How am I feeling? Why am I feeling this way? You can sometimes get caught in not understanding your own emotions that it's something I think I have a decent grasp on now that I'm older. Doesn't mean I have a mastery of it. I see Fe doms, and they seem to just operate on immediate recognition of emotions. Once they recognize it, they can validate it and move on to the next thing. I think Ti's tend to feel uncomfortable with the tribe validation so they try and earn it in themselves, living up to their own ideals and principles within themselves. They will not be satisfied until then - at least that's how it manifests itself in me. Once I am able to go through this process and come out victorious, I often come out to the tribe and say "look, i'm doing better now :)" lol
I started a similar practice to this in my life 5 years ago, it changed everything.
Demon Fe, I draw to let it out. It used to work until I needed a faster way to let it out, then I tried singing. Singing worked for a while until I'm too sad to even sing. I do know my best medicine is crying tho. Sadly, I can't really cry because I often feel like the sadness itself isn't valid enough to be considered something to even be sad on.
Fe demon, Ti savior. I prefer talking about my feelings objectively, as things that exist but aren't really part of me. They really seem more like something that happens to me. There are times when I need to have my feelings validated as something normal in the circumstances, but it's much easier to find that online than with real people.
It's kind weird, because I don't want sympathy or anything, I just want the emitions to he received with a logical mindset. Analyse my feelings, give me a new insight, don't notice it if I cry. Pointing out the obvious doesn't work on Ne, I need you to give me something new. I've only ever gotten that from online communities.
As a ISTP (Ti savior) not probably CSPB or CSBP, I hear what you all (OP) are saying, how I can get in a loop if I am not able to share my struggle/frustrations with a person I trust. Having their approval or validation is a big plus, but at least just a listening non-judgemental ear. And if they are able to listen and empathize, then they have found a friend in me.
It refreshing to be able to transparent or vulnerable, there is a strength in that, and I have found that when I do this, especially in a group, it encourages others to do the same, as many of us like to put on an act like we don't have personal demons we are battling.
Lead M Fe reporting in: Lead Ti gets out of this by opening up to others first.
By asking Fe-style questions, they'll learn logically what they have permission to talk about. Developed Fe in savior state knows exactly what is objectively a good or bad idea to bring up with a person. So by letting people open up, they can analyze what it feels like to be on the other side of situation, and have a better framework to logic off of.
I'm an INTP and my husband is an ISTP. We only talk about our feelings with each other, and usually to solve a problem. It works well, even when we are each other's problems, which is rare. Mostly our NeSi and SeNi butt heads occasionally and we enter in endless discussions because of them. That's when we have to use our Fe's to calm down our Ti's and accept neither of us is wrong. (There's a funnny example of this involving Minecraft, if anyone is interested. I'm just too sleepy to write it right now.)
He was raised by the sweetest ESFJ, so I think he developed a lot of his Fe through watching his mother. And I went through some things that made me realize I had to develop my Fe ASAP. I think that's why our Fe's work well together.
We still complain a lot about other people, though. Other people are irrational af. That's something we always agree on.
I absolutely adore this comment, I find this so interesting as an ENFP
@@sophiaredwood5825 Now that you commented on my old comment, I started thinking about it again, and I realized something new.
My husband and I only talk about feelings with each other because we both use Ti to solve Fe problems, and we can't really do that when talking to other people. We'll immediately identify Fe problems as being a communication issue, or irrealistic expectations, or related to some mental health issue, and then proceed to discuss the best way to deal with it. If we can't relate the Fe problem to anything serious like that, than it's simply not a problem and we dismiss it, because the people involved (ourselves included) are probably just overreacting.
You might think that Fe isn't always related to problems, but that's usually the only moment we think Fe stuff is worth talking about. If it ain't broken, don't mention it.
Holy crap. I get it. Im ENTP and don’t talk about feelings much to friends (will build that group ASAP), so I make a podcast nobody listens to where I can be myself. Used to use Evernote and record messages to myself for a book- but many times just got into venting or emoting. That’s me trying to externalize my feelings. 🤯
THIS IS SOOOO TRUE ABOUT DEMON FE!! Also no, you can't just emotionally dump on one person! I think this is why group coaching, book clubs, masterminds, or meetups can be really good. As Fe savior I do this because it helps me bother my friends less and have more time for them. If you are demon Fe I would imagine it is even more helpful because then you won't have to bother your spouse or best friend constantly, ,and it may be less awkward and vulnerable for you.
lol at shannon trying to think of groups like that
yup youtube channel is GREAT for Fe processing. Reminds me of this older video I did about venting and Fe ruclips.net/video/fqVFHm7TqMc/видео.html
I don't know about all this for myself. I have no doubts I am ISTP, but I go straight to the person I am having issues with and confront them with direct communication about what I perceive to be an interpersonal problem. They either hate that and a fight ensues, or they appreciate my direct approach and we talk it out and form a stronger bond. I don't bottle up my emotions. I do also rant to someone else about a person if I feel I or someone I know is being treated unfairly. I also just want it to be a rant, I don't really want the advice, just someone to understand what is fair and unfair. These are typically the extent of my negative emotions, otherwise I'm either neutral or excited about something I am doing.
omg that explains a lot!! Most of of Fi dominant or demon can be really talkative and expressive when it comes to their emotional because of their Te and the need to process their emotional outwardly while Ti-Fe can be really picky and they won't open up easily due to the priority to analyze things first and because of their fear of the tribe that they might be judged. That was well explained, thanks a lot!!!
as long they are talking about it in the abstract sure. comfortable Fe users can talk through the emotions as they are happening, with the right people or have the right words to excuse themselves till they can talk/sort it out another way
This video helped me understand my own Fi. There has never been a time that I thought, “let’s get together and have a cry fest.”
HAHAHA SAME
The end is me spending quarantine alone and realizing I’ve been making decisions that have made me unhappy all along because of my ego
Ive found that helping people gets me out of my head, and it helps me tremendously with my emotions. Here’s a few other things thats helped me as well
1) Celebrate Recovery small groups, or any small group really. You can curse all you want to, and share whats really on your mind, without any fear of judgement or shame! (feedback isnt typically allowed after someone shares, so it alleviates fear of judgement)
2) Pushing myself to talk around people (Im constantly accused of never talking and being a fly on the wall). It doesnt matter who it is or what I even share.
3) Not always the best method, but sharing my ‘emotional-state’ with a friend. Finding a friend who will simply just listen is great.
As an INTP I really struggled with this unknowingly for years. I realized I needed a community where I could Fe reality check my emotions or whatever was going on with me. There are specific groups filled with mostly INTPs, where we just Fe vomit in private. It's like a bunch of toddlers talking out loud going, "I had a deep feel and it felt bad, why?"
And bunch of inferior Fe's just bumbling about just being okay with that and learning that they aren't alone.
You can learn from Fi's how to deal with feelings.
Yikes, I feel called out hahaha. I do notice that when Im in a rut emotionally, its so hard for me to process it on my own cause I get stuck and I dont feel better until Im atleast am able to talk it out with someone. Doesn't matter if you have no idea or even relating to me, as long as I can get it out with someone.
What’s funny as hell is that at 8:40 when the female blushed and touched her hair and dave noticed it fast as fuck. And as soon as the clip ended she just said it. this channel is amazing
Fe here as well. In the beginning I'd talk to anyone regarding my emotions. I learned that I can't talk to everyone along the way, as there responses to the situations can be sometimes too "ST" or "NT" from the get-go. It's become clear to me that as my Fe matures, I want more grown Fe conversations that will flow and provide insight to the other functions as a solution to any problem but having it start from my Fe. I'm aware this may be a little biased and the reality of it won't be too common as an INFJ, but I do seek that out so to get the results I'm looking for.
(Old) INTP Software Engineer here. In our office I used to work in there were 4 of us INTP's and we used to say "Every software office needs an Intern/gimp". What we meant was when we had a problem we couldnt solve all we needed was someone - anyone, could've been the cleaner didnt matter all they had to do was listen - to stand by us so we could explain/vocalize our problem and as if by magic the solution would come to us. So many times we "solved" each others problems just by being a listening post for 5 minutes.
Shannon, you were on the right trail with AA... it's called Emotions Anonomous (EA). 😊
AA was a good suggestion. Most meetings are open, meaning non-alcoholics are welcome - how else would those denying their problem get help seeing it?
EA Sports « It’s in the game! »
What is AA mean?
@@atomicgps7488 in a lootbox
NAMM
This vid and particularly the insightful comment section was pure gold to this INTP
Ugh, this is very relatable. I may be personable, but I have demon Fe and cannot for the life of me talk through shit with anyone unless I am at absolute rock bottom… but once I do, it is so helpful. Funny how I can tell everyone else how important it yes, yet I never do it 😆
The phrase used "The ego being tied to" I think needs more exploration, maybe a video on this would be nice.
ibanezmonsterg 💯
The ego es our self perception. (We are not the ego)
That phrase blew my mind. I never fully understood that feelings are impersonal for Ti Savior people. Hearing it like that (as a Savior Fi) made me think.
Ouch. Let me show you on the emotion wheel where it hurts. Ti Dom and most of me struggles surface because I’m always “ok” until I’m really, REALLY so far from ok the titanic is sinking.
I’m so glad I have a few friends that are here to help me process when I am not for public consumption. (Shame...the struggle is so much shame lacing that tidal wave...I can’t even)
I have high Fi and don't need to talk out my feelings. I process them on my own. But you are right, ideas/thoughts I can't process on my own. I need someone to talk it out with.
Im Te-Fi and i can confirm. I thoughts feelings are just meant to be acknowledged and then felt. They will surface a few times but every time they do, just acknowledge and feel.
I started with therapy in 2016 then started a podcast to keep talking it out. I knew no one would really listen so I went for it anyway. It was when Anchor was brand new and more of a social network. I did end up connecting with a bit of a community. There was a savior Fe connecting a bunch of people and it's actually how I found my fiancé cause she on there as well. The podcast is still going and evolving which is how I regularly let things out. Now I do this RUclips channel as well and it's doing okay.
So my advice is brave little steps. Think of like exercise...15 to 30 minutes a day for a few times a week. Just start talking. Find people who will remind you that they aren't judging you and you just need to extravert those emotions by just talking it out. Let your out loud thoughts lead you to those core emotions. You'll land on the thing and will feel so much better.
Prayer, essentially processing with God (among other things), has been hugely helpful for me. If you actually have a good relationship with God it can be really great! I often like writing them to help me focus, still stream of consciousness.
The stuff around the 4 minute mark… in software development we call that “rubber ducking”. You could talk it out with an inanimate object but talking to the office idiot is less of a red flag. As long as the don’t try to solve it.
I have been waiting for this. I actually had been searching in your old videos for Ti lead, fe demon. And I have figured out my old.boss is Ti lead, she cant process her emotions and she just exploded. As a lead Fi it really hurt my feelings, and I felt as no matter what I did it was never enough for her.
When she got angry she was mean, and really agressive. Now I understand her personality, but still.I think she needs help, and it would do her good to go to a psychologist. But she is just so proud, she wont ever show weakness, even if she is destroyed on the inside. The opposite of.me
I feel like Ti are such proud types...They are very sure they know themselves and if something doesn't align with their Ti, it's not worthy of any consideration, not even going in and discussing in depth. As a Blaster Ni it's sometimes hurtful when I'm passionate about something and want to share the thing with them...Sometimes they'll brush it off or just stand there listening with a blank stare lmao.
What you said almost described me exactly, except I'm Te savior. I do tend to relate to Ti more than Te. When I'm angry, it is pretty extreme to the point where my goal is to emotionally hurt the person that I see as responsible for the chaos. I'm not proud of that, but at least I am aware and can try to do better.
@@MichelleCoe309 yeeees! My old boss `changed` her hate (for me ut came across as hate) depending on the person that today was not at her best. I am not sure if she is Ti or Te, maybe Te..
I was sick for a while, and she was talking bad things behind my back.. she can never show empathy. It ruined our relationship.
Try to stay tuned with your emotion, you are even stronger to process them. I feel like she sabotages her career future because of this. If she could connect and engage emotionally with people she would be far ahead in her career, because she is a,really good worker.
But you need that Fe for people to like to work with you, it is such an important skill, as Te is..
@@MichelleCoe309 I find that that is her main goal too. She wants to hurt the person really bad.
It got to the point people are crying in front of her, and she keeps going.
As Fi lead, I identify what I do with my personality, if you tell me I suck I will really think that and that I always do things wrong.
This actually helped to grow more and be strong to face criticism. And sometimes criticism is not true.
And I know my worth.
Thats what the internet is for, being anonymous and being able to share whatever I want without feeling too embarrassed about it or suffering any repercussions from it
I've been wishing there was a science textbook on emotions for ages. Unfortunately this is one of these things that I don't think will ever exist
there is a whole field of knowledge called psychology on this - try CBT for a start, it's all about turning your feelings into logical understanding
As a Savior Fi, even I find this incredibly interesting. I’d love to read that.
Shannon is playing the double decider game so well. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Can you guys make a video on social anxiety, and which types are most likely to feel it? Frank James mentioned on his livestream yesterday that he thinks ExxJs and IxxPs may experience the most social anxiety, and I definitely think there is something there. IxxPs may seem more likely, due to their rocky relationship with the tribe and their over-focusing on themselves = incredibly self-conscious. Then again, shyness may be linked to a too strong focus on how you appear to others, which is probably the extroverted decider functions. (ExxJs). Shy people often have problems presenting their genuine selves (Fi/Ti) to the tribe (Fe/Te), which I think can apply to both IxxPs and ExxJs. What do you think?
Groups that talk about emotions: Dialectical Behaviour Therapy groups. They get you to notice, acknowledge, and accept your feelings and learn how to deal with those feelings without hurting others or yourself.
My husband is an ISTP, I'm an INFJ. We've been together for a long ass time. In the beginning, there were... hmm... issues... As we've kind of grown together, where I've learned a ton from how he handles things, and he's learned a little from how I handle things, we're coming to a more "middle" ground. He would go to me to talk feelings out, and I "suggested" he talk to his younger brother (who's an ISFP) because they're so similar in many ways. Once he finally decided to try it, it's been AMAZING. He feels really comfortable talking to his brother now and it's made him a far more buoyant person.
ISTPS are excellent with ISFPs
@@orangeziggy348 Yeah, they're so close now. They're hilarious, too.
I had a ISTP boss in his 40s who would vent about his marriage, how selfish he was, and how he got a vasectomy. He told the whole team. I was like why are you telling just anybody about such things??? I guess he didn't have anyone to talk to and damn demon Fe. Lol
You two always talk about ISTP in your demon FE videos. Can an INTP get some love? But yeah that's a big life challenge for me right now.
They don't understand what an INTP is and thanks to our beloved Te/Se, whenever they actually talk about some other types (with functions other than their own), they start to ridicule and belittle them. I figured that they do have a special hatred regarding Ti/Ne types in general (again, thanks to our Te/Se bully, Shannon).
@@taliehkazemi3919 I've noticed that as well. They spend a better time praising Te-Fi and Ni-Se, while easily criticizing Ti-Fe and Ne-Si. I don't blame them tbh, Fi users ARE selfish, while Fe users are more fair and just.
@@pietart3596 I think I mean what you say based on the context. However, you say they criticize Ti-Fe and Ne-Si, yet you do not not blame them becuase Fi users are selfish? I do not get the distinction. Do you mean they are selfish and thus it makes sense they criticize functions other than their own?
No Idea why they Idealize ISTP so much it's not doing any good for anyone. Especially for ISTPs
@@pietart3596 Wooow. So "fair and just" of you to say that! Please tell us more about how Fe is good and Fi is bad. LOL, you're delusional.
When dealing with ti hero, the best way to make them talk about what they feel is to trick them and act like you think their feelings is logical , keep talking about emotional shit but in a serious face as if you're talking about politics or someone else's feelings, this works everytime with me
Great insights. As an INTP I really struggle with this. I’m constant seeking outlets for my emotions. I really think a TikTok/RUclips would benefit me a lot so I’m working up the courage to do that. Otherwise, I’ve been improving my ability to strike up random conversations with strangers and getting more personal.
Talking out loud or even better writing and talking.
This is related to how cognitive biases make you *believe you are thinking clearly* and it always feels as if you have thoughts in complete sentences.
In reality your mind tricks you into thinking that.
It's actually *concepts* and their connections that are feeling like complete sentences post-thought.
*Which is why words leaving my mouth sounded like the words of an enlightened sage in my head but in conversation it's suddenly inane babble.*
*THEY WERE NEVER FULL SENTENCES IN YOUR HEAD*
That's why we need to talk out loud.
What are you talking about, you can totally share it with yourself. I have many times videoed myself or voice recorded myself on an app on my phone talking out my feelings and watched or listened back to figure things out. It's really helpful. As an INTP / I don't know what the hell I am this has always worked well for me. It's good to have a tribe, but technically unnecessary in this instance.
I also had search for lead Fe, demon Ti and I just found it so.interesting to see that my sister and my mom are both lead Fe.
My sister was never a good student, and was called dumb, and not intelligent for a long time. Now she is finishing her degree and I am just so proud of her. It shows that all those infant years had an impact of her willing to be more than others said she was. She broke barriers just to prove she is intelligent.
My mom has also wanted to.be someone, and be seen as cultural, intelligent. Although she had an alcoholic father and was poor growing up, she was able.to have her own company her own local newspaper
You're not stupid if you've Saviour Fe. I know that is not what you're saying, but it slightly has that vibe. At certain things you're going to be very skilled, more so than Ti. She probably has a lot of people-knowledge which is super valuable and she may even come off as wise.
@@ruthstalkingagain4315 I envy their EQ, they can get along wih anyone, and they are so good making conversation..
Anywhere my sister work, people love her, because she can work with even the shiest, or the thoughest person. I actually envy that skill so much they both mastered
For me (INTP) I usually get my emotions out through writing I think? Or at least, that's typically what I consciously choose to do when I feel the need to express certain feelings. When it comes to confiding in people, I'm not completely sure, because I'm not exactly sure how I go about that. I think what really matters to me is that the person can understand and sympathize, I don't know if I would want to confide is a random person, but as long as I felt I could get the sort of positive or accepting feedback I wanted/needed I don't think I'd really mind who it was.
Now that I think about it, I think I would actually be perfectly fine with talking to anyone, so long as I didn't feel judged for it or misunderstood.
I really like how you guys just get straight to the point. There's no intro, no promotions, none of that rubbish.
So, I think I'm an ENTP. Because of tertiary Fe, I feel responsible for the overall emotional atmosphere within a room or a community, and I often am not even aware of my own feelings, Fi. It is not uncommon for me to be so unaware of my feelings, that I don't realize I'm upset until I start feeling physically ill. As tertiary Fe, I generally don't like to talk feelings unless I really have to. So, in tertiary Fe, I'm monitoring the atmosphere of the room, but especially looking for intense negative feelings because that's my cue to come in, if I must. Compare to primary Fe, who more proactively (less reactively) is adjusting the harmony in the room. You would think that if I were having emotional issues, I would want to discuss it with a lot of people given Fe. But no. I don't want to disturb the atmosphere that I work so hard to keep somewhat harmonious (although a small dose of chaos and friction is fine). So, I tend to turn to very trusted individuals to work through Fi. But even then, I try not to burden the same person repeatedly, in fear of too much altering the atmosphere, the relationship, between us, because again, I'm responsible for that atmosphere.
Because therapists keep boundaries and do not emote much, it makes it easier for Fe to stop worrying about the atmosphere in the room because a good therapist keeps the atmosphere of the room steady each session, which of course also means that therapists tend to be Fe themselves (thereby also relating themselves to the fact that one often has to "dig" to reach their Fi).
Fe is about connecting to other humans on an emotional level. Demon Fe when struggling with emotion should find an Fe savior/parent user to talk to about it. It’s about building trust and not feeling alone
As a Savior FE, I want someone who will listen, or at least act like they are listening. I don’t really want their opinion. I just need to verbalize my feeling. If they are wise, that is just a wonderful bonus!
INTP here. Thanks for this.
I feel like I (ab)use youtube to "talk things out" - get inspired by something people say on camera, then go to my own google-doc and write my thoughts on it. Actually reaching out to real people/friends to talk is better, but finding the person who will listen is the hard part, yeah. I found setting up skype calls with old friends during this pandemic is much better than just texting back and forth.
YOU ARE SOOOO TE!!! Immediately Trying to solve demon Fe’s problems... throwing the shit ideas to process... AAA groups... Customer service... etc.
WOW...
I'm an ISTP-t. This rings so true. I do stand up comedy, or did when not in lock down. To force that demon(Fe) out. Writing the jokes works the Ti hard. I record my stand up and analyze it. How can I say something different for a different response. Things like wording, inflection, timing. The hard part is rejection but comedy hits like a brick so it's like jumping into cold water for socializing. I'm by myself on stage so it's like golf but with people. You learn quick failure is the norm and have fun with it. Also comedy friends can rip each other apart with little to no push back. So the crazy honest shit we say hits softer and is usually appreciated. It is a wild fun and just understand, your not going to die up there even though it feels like it. Making my thoughts palatable has become second nature and now I'm even fixing the relationships with my family by figuring out how to just make them laugh during lock down. Using dungeons and dragons for that.
TL:DR: But if you have Demon(FE) I recommend an improve class. You learn the technical structure to funny and turn talking to people into a game of funny. Be straight it was only a joke and just don't actually try to hurt peoples feelings. Comedy is Therapy.
lmao, my math teacher (the stereotypical INTP) loves telling jokes and I think for the same reason of yours
On the other hand, what helps Fi people with emotions is science - either abstract rules (Ni-Te for SFPs), or specific set of steps (Si-Te for NFPs) to find cause of their problem, and provide solution. They don't care about sharing emotions, being accepted or validated. And having arguments is what helps them to stay in good emotional state. Because they learn, what to say and do to get what their Fi needs, without getting push back from Fe people, because they insulted some of their Ti. That is, why Te people provide so much disclaimer. Fe people do it too by getting their values as close to Fi values as they can.
My ISFJ friend is finally sick of my shit. It helped a lot talking crap out. It kinda helped me figured out the job I wanted to do. I actually tried going to counsellor in secondary school and it scared me so much, I just talked shit. I never went back. I at one point burst out in text towards a teacher and she was really sweet about it. I was just really embarrassed after that and never said anything more.
I always have this thought of just wanting to talk out my feelings or whatever and NEVER seeing someone again. I guess the helplines would help.
So funny when INTJs advice other types to solve somthing with "doing something 15 minutes every day" as if it's easy.
All hell would freeze over before I could do a single habit 15 minutes every day.
I believe I’ve found a fellow ExxP
@@sophiaredwood5825 INTP
@@cyberneticbutterfly8506 Ooooo salutations then, hahaha. Either way, I’m an ENFP and this comment is a mood
@@sophiaredwood5825 I'd share in your mood but I don't feel like it right now, I'll postpone til later.
So what function am I using when I talk things out with myself?
An introverted decider. Ti or Fi.
@@christalphelps6186 yeah I think so, my sister and me are both introverted deciders and we talk a lot loudly to ourselves
Cincy Shaves Si
@Mr X yeah, I guess it depends on the context. I was trying to simplify, especially as it relates to todays topic in the video which was focused on deciders.
Mailman : "Am I a joke to you?"
Jon Jones figuring this thing out in time? Yeah that will be the day...
Went to share my emotions, was judged for it, NEVER AGAIN! wow, ok that really hit home 🤔🤯
This would be my dad in a nutshell of him being a istp, although I think he is more of a glass lizard because he is still close to all his old friends from the islands.
He clearly has masculine demon fe, however he is always willing to exert his play energy for the tribe even if he doesn't feel like it or clearly doesn't want to and gets stress out when he does it.
As a demon Fe psycho, I can speak to the stunt double thing. I'll talk to myself and imagine that there is someone there (this works best when I close my eyes), or I will hold my phone up and yell into that, with no one on the line (this works best in public). It helps me to hear what I'm saying and to consider how hypothetical person 001 would respond to it. That way, I don't sound like an idiot, when I tell an actual person about whatever it is.
As an (allegaly) INTP, with Demon Fe of course, i think the best solution for all the guys and gals with Demon Fe is start a Fight Club. So we can release our emotion by punching the shit out of all of us.
Just an idea.
Tip from Theodore Roosevelt to all smart ISTP's out there: "Nobody cares how much you know, until they know how much you care.". Showing vulnerability isn't showing weakness and neither is the ability to learn from other people. "Smart people learn from everything and everyone, average ones from experience, stupid ones have all the answers." (Socrates).
Aweeee, this is my brother. 😥 He’s ISTP and has struggled with addiction when he was young. He doesn’t anymore but I can still see that he has a need to talk. I’m going to offer to do that with him. Im an INTJ liberal and he’s a Trump lover so not sure how great it will go, LOL, but we’re gonna try. We already have an agreement not to talk politics. We do love each other. Awe poor guy. I’m glad I saw this video.
Is it weird that the guinea pig made me cry?
me too
As far as my Savior Fe input on the helpfulness of sharing emotions with anyone with good will who’ll listen, in a generalized way it’s true- it’ll be at least somewhat helpful.. For me personally, however, having double-activated Demon Ti, I have the additional need for others to at least grok my reasons in order to leave the convo with a sense of resolution, clarity and catharsis.
By the time you get to AA you’re on your way to Rock Bottom and when you get there and end up in rehab you’ve experienced the best thing that can ever happen because you’ve got nowhere to go but up...kind of like your hero’s journey. The meetings are usually open and you can go to just listen. AA works because you’re finally with people who have been to a place where you thought you were the only one dealing with it. I think when you’re willing to be free from an addiction all those personality traits go out the window when you’re desperately trying to get freedom.
Ti/Ne. I get this extreme shame wave after I express emotional turmoil particularly in regard to sadness. I dread funerals not because of the sadness itself, but because of the intense experience of refusing to cry in front of others. It's fucked up.
An added note since this video was actually about what could be helpful- I think the trajectory of Ti>Ne>Si>Fe can at times be to think up various explanations as to why things transpired the way they did over time in order to make sense of Fe shit that got fucked up and trying to narrow down the exact reason.
It takes a very conscious effort, but I've found one thing that helps is to look to our total blind spot, Fi. It's a blind spot, but can also be an anchor at the bottom of the cognitive ocean. By just stopping over-analyzing and instead saying to ourselves what we're feeling, as in purely just Naming or pinpointing the feeling can pull us out of the thought realm for a brief moment and into some more simplistic normalcy where feelings are merely normal and okay. Naming a thing gives you some power over it. There's a hidden power for us in simply saying I'm feeling x. It just really takes a concerted effort to stop thinking and simply state the feeling.
We definitely need a backboard to bounce our feelings off of and ride out the emotional wave. A lot of people can't sit through the rant. I found that an ENFP can provide insight as to how I should feel as long as I came to them after the rant phase, and don't make it too much about myself. I can rant at an ISTJ who knows me well, but after a while, It will be too stressful and they start to panic.
I think our rants can be too intense for most people. I like to drive in my car for a few hours and just let it out. I don't think a person is needed during the rant phase. But when I'm ok to just talk it out (if I need to) in a level-headed manner, I can bring it to someone without it hurting the relationship with that person. And that talk hasn't been about me sorting out my feelings - I could care less - , it's really to try to figure out what the hell the other person who made me mad was thinking.
Also, Watching Tik-tok helps. Laughter improves the mood almost immediately.
3:06 this is just the funniest shit I've ever seen 🤣, Shannon's reaction was just priceless 😂
Awwwwww, the guinea pigs.
I don't know about all this talking out emotions. If I talk about them, I'll dwell on them, and then I'm stuck. Once in a great while, my emotion(s) sneak up on me and I may yell or even cry, and then it's over. So why talk them out and dwell on them?
Fe aux. here, yeah talking out feelings and thoughts to just thin air helps you process and articulate them. I do it all the time. I talk if there was somebody there, but I know there isn't, and this is super cathartic. I guess with emotions too, you're not just dumping them on someone all at once, and emotions are private. I mean, if you need to talk to a therapist then do so, but in between or in the meantime start talking out loud with no one there for a short period each day. I will say having another objective point of view there, the therapist, is helpful, but talk a lot of that sh*t out yourself before going. That way you will have already processed a ton of it yourself.
I started practicing talking to God and letting Him know how I feel and it helped me a lot so now I know how I feel and can express them a lot easier now but I only do with people I trust and not just anyone. Oh ansbakmething I realizes about myself #istp is that whenever i am stressed or having issues, I have to process it mentally first and then I need to talk to someone to make me feel better and I don't know why.
I have this thing in life: I have a person for each of my interests.
So I can talk about each interest with them, without boring people.
But I do that sometimes. My sister has recently said to me that I sometimes don't care if the people are listening 5o me or not, I just HAVE to talk about the things I love, or hate.
Everyone in my life know, for example, how much I hated Bleach(it's a manga) ending. Or the HIMYM ending. Or how much I love Yuzuru Hanyu, or V for Vendetta...and a lot of other stuff.
The hamster lookin thing at the end was so relatable
I love watching your guy's faces when you look at a video. Dave's face is just the same, but Sharon's (did I get that right) face is telegraphing her whole discovery journey throughout the video.
Shannon
ISTP here, I actually talk to myself when nobody's around to figure stuff out
My boyfriend is ISTP. He's also a veteran and he uses the veterans suicide hotline quite a bit. In my opinion he uses it inappropriately.... But this is actually what he's doing he's trying to talk out his feelings so I get it now, that never occurred to me before. He uses me for this too as well. I'm pretty sure I'm an Fe Dom but I haven't been typed so I don't know for a fact. When he would go to AA meetings he wouldn't talk at all. Too many people in the room for that. It has to be more one-on-one with him to actually Express an emotion. I also figured out that when he's feeling something very deeply he will say "I'm having a panic attack". He's not. He's just feeling something and has no comprehension of what that is so I learned when he says this that he needs to talk about his feelings.
(Self diag) ISTP TiSe SP/C here. Actually struggling with chronic migraines the last few years. I just came across Dr John Sarno's work about the mind-body connection and repressed emotions manifesting as pain in the body. I need to find strategies to acknowledge and release emotions, so this kind of vid is super helpful for me. Any other advice from non-emotional types!?
What I think would be a problem to Ti saviours is that they wouldn't be comfortable burdening other people with their emotions if they don't know for sure they would be willing to do the same thing for someone else. It's also weird to ask for support on something you don't find credible within yourself (your emotions).