How to lie to an IxxP
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Di doesn't want compliments that it doesn't deserve.
It wants to build itself to deserve compliments.
It wants others to recognize what it truly is.
Edit: IxxPs don't need outside validation, we validate ourselves and are also our biggest critics.
Edit 2: After further reflection, it seems like we will accept compliments in our demons but refuse compliments in our saviors. The Te spreading of the credit around is because it's their savior, but if you tell them that they are a nice person they will get emotional and thankful.
On second thought,
I've seen that ExxJs are needy for compliments because it adds to their self esteem.
Yes they spread them around in public but in private they need them.
@@Binyamin.Tsadik Yes this phenomenon is always interesting to me as well. As long as I am not being imposed on someone else's need to be responsible for their saviors/demons, I am solid on the need for praises.
Yes, I agree with this (infp here). And I think the problem comes in with like imposter syndrome and stuff because you want to rightfully deserve the compliments, but when you realize you are getting praised with skills or accomplishments that aren't worthy of that praise, you get worried that it's all going to collapse from underneath once everyone realizes you weren't worthy in the first place. So I think the tower/jenga analogy still works really well. I want to build up to deserve praise, and I'm building I'm building, but then other people are stacking and stacking and I'm technically achieving my end goal of this beautiful tower that awe-worthy and inspiring, but if people find out that I didn't actually build it, then they'll pull out all the blocks and it'll collapse, ultimately making me into an empty shell of a human!
Exactly. We only listen to feedback that confirms what we already "know"
IxxPs "know" where they stack up, good or bad. And they only accept data that confirms it. Compliments are rejected if they feel like crap. Criticism is rejected if they feel awesome. Only way to convince them they're wrong is through their observations. But that just topples their Jenga stack.
ExxJs "know" that everything is/isn't fair. So they only accept data that "proves" that "everything is fair" and forcefully block anything that threatens that.
my main issue is that i can sniff out a false compliment from a mile off, so the whole theory kinda falls flat from my own point of view. and tbh i have had to work all my life on accepting compliments, it’s not something i can even do naturally - especially *because* of imposter syndrome. there are actually very few compliments i even take seriously.
so, something doesn’t seem quite right about this, at least in my experience. INFP.
From my experience, what IXXPs fear the most is that the tribe will not understand/appreciate their inner world.
No that’s just life
I think that the vision of not realizing own potential is also very scary...
Oh my ye! Like I litteraly sitting home getting better at stuff so in the one time I have to do something for people I am valuable.
more appreciate.. Most won't understand, but at least appreciate it, that is our biggest desire
We also have a bad time trying to process the thought - "I'm actually not that special. "
The thing with compliments, I don’t think you got that quite right. It’s not that Di enjoys compliments more than De. It’s that when Di gets a compliment, it gets so much significance in the mind of the Di, that they freak out and think that they are not worth it and a fruad. Also, to Di, a compliment is like placing a standard. So whenever you give Di a compliment they will blow it out of porportion and think the tribe now expects A LOT from them. They expect things Di cannot possibly deliver. So Di actually gets super tense with compliments, in my experience, because it reminds them that the tribe exists and place expectations.
It is exactly that
Omg this honestly explains so much about my life, very insightful (not to place any expectations on your insight lol)
I guess that's how it probably feels for Di's. "Warning, I'm going to make a dick comment here". The Di probably has such low standards towards the tribe that they get a compliment for something EASY for a non Di. So, we are like, "Finally, they did what the tribe expects from them", and then you still give them a compliment because giving criticism to a Di doesn't work. They just say, "Nah, that's not true, that's not my reality," and crawl back into their introverted world.
So When criticism isn't an option, we just give out compliments on the moments you do, do what the tribe expects from you.
soooo yeah, I don't want to be mean. As an ENFJ, I'm the complete opposite. But realising the tribe isn't asking that much from you. But that your standards towards the tribe are deficient. Is probably the most mature thing you can do as a Di.
mika van der Gun Then you’re not complimenting, you’re encouraging them to develop a skill they lack, which is different. Complimenting someone is finding something they’re good at and praising that. It’s not giving encouragement. That’s like a Ti acknowledging a good point in a discussion from someone who doesn’t always make good points or an Fi praising someone for taking a decent ethical position when they might not do so in all aspects of life. A compliment would be praising someone who often organised things for doing so or for caring for others if that’s their strength. Of course you have to give encouragement to someone in skills they lack or areas they don’t understand or care about if you want any progress. So to compliment a Di, it should be in something they naturally do well, which is obviously not tribe related
Yes, this exactly
I’m lead Di. Sometimes we know that we need to ask the tribe something, but we’ve neglected the relationship so much that asking just seems wrong lol
Oh hell yea..
I feel like I don't deserve to ask. Like I'm burdening someone else. On the flip side I can't stand when people expect me to help them when I've never really placed any expectations on them. Maybe I just don't have any real relationships where there's a give and take.
Soooo true lmfao. By the time you think about contacting the tribe, they're already way past waiting for you haha
@@jack76787 Yeah exactly, the not deserving it and also I feel like I avoid interacting with people a lot because I look at it as if it was them interacting with me, would I want them to be? I hope it hasn't been so obvious to everyone else that this is why I am the way I am because I truly mean no offense, but probably more than I'd hope. I feel like I'm bothering anyone when I'm simply talking to them, but I often feel bothered when people talk to me unsolicited so I guess I assume others are the same as me. I'd love to live in a world where I could just be in my inner world uninterrupted by anything I don't want to be interrupted by. Obviously the world doesn't revolve around my saviors and that could get quite boring, but it still sounds so relaxing. I think I'm consume / sleep though lol, that doubling down on the inner world.
Personally, I wouldn't want to ask for help even so because it feels like I will be forever in debt because (for example, someone helped me move once)...even if they are compensated and thanked and appreciated and I mention how helpful it was in each interaction and try to help back, I'm still waiting for validating them to be over, the giving back to be over... Amd I start to wonder if it was worth it. I think maybe I should have done it alone. As horrible and selfish as that may sound, usually I don't think about it till they are fishing for compliments or bringing it up. Now that I'm aware I feel like "when will it be enough?" The De cup never seems to fill. So I should never ask for help if it's going to be that way. I think about it like tribe subscription fees. 7-day free trial based on human decency but then you have to pay. Like how Dave wants consume to be over, to know everything, finally, Di wants wants to focus on self not tribe, rather than keep checking in and keep feeding tribe. Tough to balance without double deciders, honestly it's just tiring because I self validate and have a hard time seeing the value in tribe validation except for maybe relief that they aren't chasing you with their pitchforks. Anyways maybe this is cringey but maybe someone else feels the same.
Being an IP is like being self imployed. Sure, you might may get get all the profit, but you also get all the losses. You're the one responsible for either one. So IP's might take compliments seriously, but they also take criticism seriously. The big pile of jenga is high risk, but also high reward.
EJ's are like teamsports. When you loose, it's never fully your responsibility..but when you win it is not either
Awesomely put
So true!
Boom! Well said
@sᴘᴀᴄᴇ ʙᴏʏ wanna try to explain how it works?
@@Magani79 Because when we do it, it hits violently. It's like that's a shell, but under that shell is a very vulnerable skin.
Negative Di sounds like DisTRUST of the tribe.
It's like you went strolling and got lost but suddenly felt afraid to ask for directions for fear of being labeled stupid.
@@tripalon3 hahahah yupp, I always ask then still go with what I originally had. It’s probably so annoying to the people I ask, but sometimes hearing someone’s opinion is justt the thing that lets me make up my mind about it!
Correct.
good point
It's more of shame, having given the impression that you know what you are doing, and the tribe are a distraction
@@dolapootunla7735 I agree
This is dead on, I love what I’m into and go out of my way to learn everything about it and enjoy every minute. The problem comes when the tribe hates it and burns you for it. In the past I was open to going to the tribe about what I’m into and I was constantly chastised for it, eventually you just stop going to the tribe for anything. Savior syndrome kicks in and we trust no one with our identity or our ideas and it’s hard to break. On the praise part, I never trust praise from the tribe because when the tribe never has much interest in you and out of no where starts complimenting you...it’s immediately suspect.
"If you live off their compliments, you'll die from their criticism."
I definitely know what you mean about suspicious compliments. I have had enough people act like my friend in school and then turn on me or to explain how they think I'm wrong or tell me who I am (as if they know shit) to know that their opinion is automatically suspect. I have to see that you have good judgement/taste before I will believe it, and I will believe in your judgement/taste only in the narrowest sense, until I see evidence of more general sense.
That's something I have to keep quiet about, though. People don't like when they learn that you don't believe in their opinion.
The best thing ever still is when you show something cool and quirky to the tribe. They dismiss it for not presenting it well. Then it gets popular in some years.
I was trying to talk people into using discord when it was still not the basic choice. They told me that it will flop 😆
@@user-zj4kd1nc6p We IxxPs tend to be "ahead of our time". People start off by hating/denying us, but they eventually come over to our side and find a way around the cognitive dissonance that results from adopting the thing they once demeaned. That's just the cost of rolling 47 layers deep on a subject
To me it's more like, the value of their compliments is low if they don't even know what they're complimenting about. It's throwaway.
What I love about this channel is that most Meyers Briggs stuff emphasizes what the types are good at and where they excel. These two get really deep and say - here are your shadows and where you need to improve.
Entj and intj at work
So true... as an IxxP, I got survivor-style voted out of a house by roommates because of how self above tribe I was. The thought of “The better I make myself, the more they will like me” BS was my downfall.
I’m curious about the story 🤔
Don’t sweat it. You will be happier with swans anyways, instead of with the ducklings. (ISTP) 🙂
Shimohira Reika hmm.. I got typed as an ISFP by another source but it’s possible. 🤔 Why do you think ExTJ?
Sara my ex-roommates got upset because I chose to play video games or chill in my room instead of spending time with them. They would always talk about me behind my back because of it. It ended up in a huge confrontation/fight at a house party where I blew up on everyone. We didn’t really talk for a few weeks after that and by then it was too late. They broke the news to me a few days before my birthday lol as we had to talk about extending the lease or not
Shimohira Reika possible but unlikely a Te lead. I’d put IxTJ before ExTJ. My Te tends to come in more of a demon feminine state.
We IPs may think the problem is the tribe, they can't answer us, they are dumb or all that stuff, but deep down we know it's not that. If they don't help it's not because they're useless, but it's probably because of how we asked. Our real problem is the fear, not of the tribe, but of ourselves: the feeling of not being capable of overcoming something with our own capabilities. We feel like we shouldn't involve the tribe in our problems, because we can't admit we need their help.
What do you mean we can't admit we need their help? I need help from others all the time... but I'd rather kill myself than ask for it... because once I start asking, I open the floodgates to all the retardation that comes with it.
@@PravinDahal That's the kind of rationalization you make in order to avoid the fear of feeling helpless in front of the tribe.
Knowing you need help is different from admitting it to others
Part of the problem is this but also the big part from the tribe's side is the various social mind games that are stacked up together into absurdity.
@@superioropinion7116 You deem them absurd, yet they work fine for anybody else... Maybe it's just an echo chamber, ever thought about it?
@@giacomocasartelli5503 okay... that's why no one likes to discuss these kind of things
I recently invested my passion and identity into something that the tribe had full power over. This thing I loved was completely out of my ability to control. So when the tribe suddenly thought ”wait, we should change this thing radically” it turned my life upside down. This thing I was emotionally invested in suddenly became completely destroyed by the tribe. I CRASHED as a human being. I will never again invest myself emotionally into something that the tribe has full control over. I will stick to what I know and can control from now on. Because I get too invested otherwise, I make myself emotionally vulnerable. /INFP
What was it that you were so invested in and what did they chance?
Aaaaaaaand thats why I have hobbies and dont try to control things at work and try to find usrfull tweaks in conjunction with what the tribe wants.
-intp-
@@thijsjong It was a story in a game series I was playing. The story was very unique and beautiful with wonderful characters and deep and dark themes. It was my favourite ever.
The company behind it got twitter-mobbed due to BLM and bombed it during the summer. They got moral panic and cut out everything I loved about the story because they were afraid of being non-PC and ”offensive”. So now the story in the game sucks and has no depth or meaning anymore, and the characters became shallow non-sensical shadows of their former glory.
@@KajsaBernhardina must be early access :D I wonder what the game you play 🤔
@@KajsaBernhardina I don’t know you but I love you hahaha. It’s so intense over this game and I love that so much, you seem like an interesting really cool person!!
What Binyamin said.
IPs fear failing to catch the lies of expediency.
We fear false inflations and false deflations.
We fear being used transactionally and discarded, like a tool.
Don't do it. We want to be able to trust you.
And the duplicitous things De does gets in the way of that trust.
If you successfully manipulate an IP with fake validation or admiration they will likely be burned forever. No turning back the clock.
so well said
Yes. A lot of impostor syndrome. This is part of the 'consume' animal. I don't know it all, so how can I possibly call myself this. Never mind that I'm doing it and doing it well, I fear that other people might realise I don't know as much as they think I do.
We get accused of being 'know it alls' but the reality is - we know what we know and are silent when we don't know something. And if you are talking to us online - we are busy looking stuff up because if you ask me a question I don't know the answer then I NEED to know before I can respond. So it looks like we already know, even though we didn't. That need - by the way - isn't driven by making you think we know it - but we need to actually know it for ourselves, because if you've asked us something we don't know it's like... Why don't I know the answer to that??
Jup. They got the reason completely wrong. They totally were projecting there, that was so De reasoning.
That is exactly me, it’s a terrifying feeling to have.
I do exactly the same thing. I have to know the answer to tell them, somehow I feel responsible for that. I don’t know why.
No, maybe this is intp specific, but we don't take compliments well. Because impostor syndrome. I don't ever feel like I deserve compliments. Often time I feel like I did the bare minimum to get something done and it's not 'good enough' by my standards and when people give me praise I feel like I could have done better.
Jup. They were totally projecting when trying to explain why we get Imposter syndrome.
Yes. We judge ourselves by our OWN standards (that’s what Di is all about -creating our own internal standards). I think the problem with runaway Di is that we set waaaay too high standards for ourselves then spend soooo much time beating up ourselves for not making the grade when the rubric we set was entirely arbitrary and ephemeral.
I don't think being INTP-specific would make it more accurate. My whole life people have complained about how I can't take a compliment. I think there may be times though where we don't say anything even if we don't believe people, and perhaps that causes them to assume we internalize the compliment.
I agree! I’m INFP and I feel ashamed when people praise me because I feel like I have fooled them somehow. It’s because we are so self-critical we never feel like we are enough to others
yo when I'm convinced I don't deserve it compliments sometimes legit make me feel worse and like I can't trust the person who's giving them
As an TI IxxP i have major imposter syndrome, if I'm at a class and don't know almost more than the teacher, and at least immediately fully understand all they talk about, I feel like I'm behind everyone else.
same! Thats why studying for me is extremely hard. if I miss one word or don't understand one sentence out of an entire 2hr lecture I have to study that one sentence. until it gets overwhelming and I can't even get to the end of an online lecture because I would feel the need to be there all day to truly get it.
Never felt more understood omg
I don't ask for help not because I think that tribe is a bunch of idiots but because I think I should be responsible for myself and my feelings and deal with them on my own. I don't think I would be embarrassed to ask for help, for example, from my friends, but I think I just try to avoid the situation when they give me advice but I maybe I decide not to take it because I think my way would be better, that way insulting them for not taking their suggestions... anyone else feels this way? (I've self typed as FF Fi/Ne CSBP, that is, INFP)
#MeToo Ou shit wrong hashtag
Nice to see the IXFP perspective.
There's plenty of IXTP perspectives here that describe what's going on with us better than I could.
INFP here, something in what you said resonates... I only ask for advice if I think there’s a reasonable chance I’ll follow it. Past experience suggests that I likely won’t (see further comment below). Thus, now I now rarely ask advice except from people who I ~really~ trust and value (those few who know me well enough that their advice will challenge my own plans, and those folks I pester too much). In recent years (in my 40s, and after listening to Dave and Shan forever) I am trying to be more mindful of the Tribe and engage with them more on their terms.
One way I’ve attempted to do this is purposely asking De type people how to do things or for advice in areas that seem like an they are knowledgeable in (this is me thinking that it’s a good thing to give them a chance to share their knowledge, skill or ideas). It usually backfires - well, TBH I have no idea if the De likes it or not. I feel like I’m being disingenuous or patronizing (honestly most of the time they give answers that are things I considered 23 layers of thought ago or they answer something other than the thing I asked). It doesn’t appear to help them, it doesn’t make me feel more like part of the Tribe (and often has the opposite effect). Maybe I shouldn’t ask things related to topics I’ve spent loads of time contemplating, considering and studying... but I have no interest in getting answers or advice about other things (hence why I haven’t studied and contemplated them) that would be equally disingenuous.
... wait... is that what ‘small talk’ is? People asking each other about stuff they don’t care enough about to have thought through and formed their own opinions on?
*sigh* I don’t think I know how to Tribe.
Self-typed as an MM Ne/Fi CS/P(B) and FELT this
Someone: What's your greatest fear?
Me, an INTP: …Uhh… I'm not sure, lemme think about which choice makes the most sense…
Me, an ISTP: What a stupid question.
same. lately i’ve been asking myself what i’m feeling but i immediately notice myself trying to “figure out” what i’m feeling based on what makes most sense to feel. it’s a fucking nightmare and i have no idea how to know what i’m feeling just straight up 😳
Me, an INTJ: None of your business.
@@Sharkuterie327 You sure youre not savior Di?
@@MrISAACFACE what is your reasoning?
You guys need to work on your understanding of IxxPs. Your constant analogies to J types make no sense and you won't get anywhere with them.
A few points:
1- IxxPs don't really stack, it's more about building a model of how things work or what we value. Ti doesn't stack reasons and Fi doesn't stack values: Ti reasons and Fi values.
2- No it's not always about ourselves, where did you get that idea? As an INTP most of what I think is about how things really work, what is objectively true or right, etc.
3- IxxPs don't typically assume that everyone works or should work like them, we trend to see ourselves as supper unique and find it odd that most people seem to want to be like the rest of tribe. So when we see someone being weird we find it relatable. Your analogy to J types does not work here
4- Insulted by sharing reasons and values? Again, what makes you say such a thing? A lousy analogy to J types? INxPs for example love to share their values knowledge, conclusions, way of thinking, etc. The problem is usually the tribe believes we are showing off or shoving our ideas down their throat... or that we are simply weird for having different views. So we only do this when we find people who won't react like that and often end up convincing ourselves that we don't want to share these things with the world in general, unlike our ENxP cousins who never seem to give up on that :D
5- You guys are also getting the whole help and validation thing wrong. As IxxPs we don't care about being the top ranked person in the class or company or even think about what our status is. Our achievements are personal, such as understanding or doing things by ourselves or building skill at something we like. Asking for help therefore equates some sort of failure because it means we weren't good enough to get the job done alone (silly, I know!).
6- You are overvaluing how much IxxPs care about compliments, but it's interesting because most people seem to think we want to be told that we are smart or talented or w/e. Yeah... we already know that lol. Mb some of us don't work like that, but talking about myself here: I prefer constructive criticism to void compliments.
Anyways, you guys were the ones who led me to research cognitive functions and such things, so I wanna thank you for that :D Don't take this whole thing personally, you guys are surely doing a great job sharing your knowledge with the rest of us, but I notice sometimes you try to take shortcuts (like your constant analogies) instead of thinking carefully about certain topics and this leads you into making some mistakes. Peace!
This.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I hate Js perceptions of IPs. It's really hard for them to fully understand what value is. Bernie Madoff was perfectly logical with his Ponzi scheme, but there was no human value in ripping people off or was there?
I'm just thinking of my mom who, while in the middle financial and legal crises, obsesses over making elaborate holiday meals and celebrations, and asking all the time for chances to babysit her grandkids multiple times each week. She doesn't want to slow down and focus on her needs because she is so scared of losing her role/identity in the tribe. Meanwhile, my ixxj self automatically tries to help with things that make the day-to-day easier--fixing and setting up computers and printers, talking finances, and trying to remain self-sufficient with childcare because I'm scared of Se things and I automatically try to minimize them for her. I think that ends up making her feel like she's not "needed" when really I'm trying to let her take care of her own needs. The dynamic with out stacks would be interesting if it weren't so nerve-wracking. This at least helps me put myself in her headspace.
Yes. Well said.
Dude! That is a genius level realization
That perfectly explains why some IxxPs can look like ExxJs killing themselves for other people. But no, they're killing themselves for… themselves and then blaming it on other people :P
@@tomaylott919 that sounds rude Fe
@@tomaylott919 in this case I don't think she's blaming it on anyone--just an observation in how our insecurities contrast and contradict others and even ourselves.
@@animuauntie maybe not consciously blaming it on other people. But in general when I see IxxP's doing this, they tend to indirectly unconsciously "blame" other people in the sense of feeling obligated to fulfill a certain identity role that only exists because the other person exists.
e.g. An IxxP judging themselves too harshly "I'm a bad mother" because their definition of "good mother" is unreasonably high. But who defined that standard? They did! But they don't blame themselves for setting unrealistic expectations. They blame everyone else for not helping or for being too demanding or unthankful or whatever
It's a classic pattern I've started seeing all over the place once I finally understood what the heck was going on
INTP here: My biggest fear is wasting my life and not making a positive impact on the world. I have zero interest in compliments for reinforcing my identity because I already understand that I'm great. Also, why would a compliment from a clueless tribe member, who is brainwashed by the society, be meaningful? They compliment anything - from the latest celebrity to Hitler. But I do get excited about compliments when it implies that I am starting to make a positive impact on the world. My saviour Ti asks, "Is my analysis correct?" If yes, then demon Fe asks, "Is my analysis having an impact?" If no, then I feel, "Ouch! I might have wasted my life." If yes, then I think, "Phew, maybe the world will improve."
BTW: Enneagram type 3 loves praise. But type 5 (usually IxTP) doesn't care about praise for self, only for the project.
INTP - My biggest recurring nightmare is a humongous multi-headed dragon that constantly bellows, "TO WHOM MUCH IS GIVEN, MUCH IS REQUIRED. You have been blessed with an outstanding intellect. What have you done with this gift this week?"
"I, er, well . . . I played thirty hours on this new videogame, and I continued to procrastinate on work. . ."
everytime the tribe has a problem with me I'm like "how could you possibly get offended, I'm leaving you alone, I'm trying my best not to bother anyone ever like you're welcome??"
Mostly spot on, but a little off the mark.
ISFP here, it's true the the stack we tediously spend so much time on falling over is a big hit to us personally, but really the biggest hit is when the "tribe" knocks down the stack of ideas I built up, saying they hate it but then don't counter it with their own stack (tying into the "everyone playing the 'stupid' IXXP game"). Then it becomes a weird thought loop of "is my stack genuinely bad or did people just not think about it hard enough? Because I don't think people gave it more than a second of thought and just dismissed my whole point based off of a few buzzwords they didn't like, etc."
My entire social life is bringing up topics that I think will inspire really deep and interesting conversation and people saying really surface level, regurgitated mantra to "haha, I win" the conversation every 30 seconds. So yeah, of course I don't care about what the tribe thinks. It's evident they haven't thought about it as deeply as I have, nor are they even 1% trying to, and they haven't provided any personal insight into anything discussed.
I'll just keep building up stacks until something sticks.
I just took this test and I'm INFP? And your comment totally makes sense to me, thanks for that
Yes, exactly. Don't knock over the jenga blocks at least unless you've got good Te reasons you can present to me. Honestly, if the Te can justify knocking it over... ultimately, I guess we'll have to do that and rebuild. I've been there occasionally and it sucks but I come around eventually. Just don't knock it over without explaining those reasons, and definitely not without the reasons in the first place. I don't care if you don't value my tower; I don't wanna hear it. But if my tower isn't working, that's a little different.
Yeah,Isfp here.Same experience so far
As an INFP there are so many things I could say about all the things that you guys have said in this video but all I will say is that most of this video makes really good sense. And a lot of what you mentioned is stuff I have learned about myself only in like the past year
I'm an IxxP and I think you guys have it flipped. I actually feel uncomfortable when people give me compliments because I'm bound to my logical Ti, that if I choose to accept compliments then I am also bound, at least to some degree, to take in criticism as well. By choosing to internalize neither, this sets Di on the fastest path forward. Think of how Gary V is always fussing about not caring about what others think (for him it's Demon Ti). Part of my growth has been to slowly allow tribe feedback into my decisions (praise and criticism).
What they said is (somewhat) accurate for me (INFP), so maybe you’ve developed your demons more than I have. I don’t like being complemented (maybe I do a little bit…), but I don’t disregard or ignore them.
D and S reason was super accurate I think 🤷♂️
As an IxxP, I can't relate to what you're saying. I have a fear of the tribe that is not about ego. It's about being slammed (including physically in many unfair fights), reamed, and oppressed by the tribe even at those times when all I do is toe the line. As you said, they know something is different or off about this IxxP person and they attack. I am not imagining that I was attacked from the moment I was born. There's proof. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if my family turned me into an IxxP so they would have an excuse to shit all over me and blame me for their problems and then enslave me. They are a troubled, maladapted bunch of people. If you don't think such a group of people can be massively destructive, you're fooling yourselves. I'm not saying this happens all the time, but it happens.
I think my biggest fear is being treated like a monster for telling obvious truths, which has already happened at least twice and is becoming more and more troublesome with the current preposterous cancel culture. It’s demanding me more and more creativity to get past censorship, even though I just want to promote mutual understanding!
Asking people *for* things, in particular, has always been incredibly difficult for me to the point that I sometimes make decisions to avoid it instinctively without even realizing that's what I'm doing. Probably my single biggest struggle in life. I've recognized that for a long time, no idea it was connected to this
INTP lawyer here, up until somewhat recently I was very headstrong about not giving a shit about anything family wise and it hurt me some.
I eventually broke down when my boss kinda swindled me and our arrangements for me to be a partner in the small firm we had, I got some terrible skin cancer, and I changed.
I now put effort into my demons and I value my family (parents, nephews, etc I still have no kids) a lot more.
Also I am an extremely self-taught lawyer and I fucked up a lot relying only on myself, but in my defense my boss didn’t know shit about the law although I still could have reached out.
I've always had deep-seated problems with appreciating family
@**it happens lol
@old lady I've been clean cancer-wise for a while, the skin cancer drama was between Oct 2015 and Nov 2016, two surgeries, radiation therapy, it disfigured my face and my left eyelid I have to close manually now since one of the surgeries required cutting part of my facial nerve, just a super aggressive squamous cell carcinoma, but I'm doing way better than others I saw at the waiting rooms at the various oncologists offices who prob aren't alive anymore. Very thankful.
Thanks for asking, and yeah the way I am now is way better than before.
I dont know if this is a general fear but as an ISTP I am VERY afraid to appear dumb it's such a phobia that I dream about nobody understanding what I am saying even if it's true but like if nobody understands you even if you are smart you technically are dumb for them ;- idk my brain has aids
Infp here. I can realte in a general sense of appearing dumb. Like I reeeeally related to what Shan said about imposter syndrome and also being embarrassed of feeling dumb in front of the tribe. For one thing, ever since like elementary school I was the type who'd never raise my hand even if I was 100% sure of the answer, because on the off chance that I'm not as smart as I think I am and I got it wrong, I'd make a fool of myself. I recently was trying to dig back into my memory to see if I had any traumas that caused this specific sort of phobia, but couldn't think of a single thing. Perhaps it turns out that I wasn't traumatized, I'm just an infp 🤣🤣
Idk if your phobia is something similar, but yeah, the imposter syndrome thing got me too because I think my skills are generally good and I love to be praised for them (words of affirmation are one of my top love languages lol) but then when I'm surrounded by others with equal or greater skill I immediately feel like they will see right through me and so the imposter syndrome sets in. Then I have to try even harder not to let it show how much I don't know, and thus the "can't ask the tribe a goddamn question" issue persists, lol.
@@anjel5521 I guess we gave the same fear but in a different way I very rarely second guess myself and always raise my hand to "correct" ignorance it's like it's my mission to not let people be dumb lol, but whenever somebody tells me that I don't know or I thought was wrong I fell so dumb so useless so I just start studying about it
And I have some INFP friends and they share a lot of similarities whit me in general, I always refer to them like the less heartless and asshole me
@@Marcos-gb5hd haha, I so relate to a bunch of what you said, like the obsessively studying up on stuff you might've been wrong about or weren't prepared for. I actually would love to be able to research everything ahead of time in real time.. Like if I could just stop time temporarily to research and never look dumb, lol that'd be ideal. But yeah, with regard to correcting people, I still do that but only if I'm like 2000% sure of the thing, rofl. I have to be confident that there's no way it could come back to haunt me later, lol. So this could also include a work situation where I know something is wrong but it was done by my boss. Because it's my boss, I dont want to step on any toes because they probably had their reasons and I could be the one misunderstanding them, or they could see it as me calling them dumb/wrong. And now as I type this, this is totally like what they said in the video about assuming everyone's playing the IP game lol. A lot of this might be a habit I built over time, which I'd like to get out of ideally lol, but since I was like this even as a kid I think it's just my natural state/tendency. And about infps, rofl we definitely have the potential to be extremly heartless assholes underneath, we'll just keep the majority of our darkest thoughts hidden away lol. That's one thing I can say about Fi especially for IxFPs, we care about what we care about and we despise what we dont. There's very little in-between for us in the way of apathy, so if we decide someone or something isnt worth our time or have no value, we can be extremely cold and brutal. But on the flip side, when we care, its intense and important and we can have a lot of empathy. I think this is the side people see most, so just in case you didn't know about this other darker side, it could help you better understand the FPs in your life~
@@anjel5521 I can kinda understand you buuuutttt even if it is my boss I will correct him I have kinda of a problem whit authority so I cannot understand why I should just ignore your mistake just because you pay me???? So to other people I can appear way to direct even when (in theory) it's not the best option
INTP here. This is the #1 most accurate and ENLIGHTENING video you've made. This is telling me some shit I've NEVER known about what "normal" people (Exxx)s are doing.
What the hell.... People aren't "stacking" their REASONS OUT THERE! OH NO MY ENTIRE WORLDVIEW! CRAP!
And of course, it wouldn't be a OP video without them(Shan the ENTJ, my most opposite type) saying my entire process and reason for living is "stupid" lol. Nothing has pushed me closer to contemplating murder, faster, than the one time I worked with (I think, in retrospect) an ENTJ client at work, lol.
Luckily I can give her a pass since she calls her own process stupid multiple times, so I think it's just her communication style. But my inferior Fe HATES insults like that, no matter what. Even when she says it to herself.
So as an IxxP:
- seek honest feedback (don’t be afraid to ask for help/seek feedback)
- surround yourself with honest people who can ground you.
- periodically, stop ‘building’ your tower and cross check each building block. Slow down and build a firm foundation.
- Just remember- you ain’t shit lol. No one is
Does this sound reasonable to anyone? I’m an IxxP myself so I’m not in an objective position to make up advice to myself. This is me asking the tribe if this tower fits into our reality. Happy for critique!
IxxP here too; hoped someone else had replied in the meantime but since no one did yet here's my thoughts:
1 and 2: feedback is important, but honesty on others' part is less so imo. Times I thought 'wish someone told me straightforward!', looking back I also wasn't paying much attention to what was around me or how what I was doing affected others. Sure, it's nice to be called out when it's needed, but you can't expect it/ demand it from people, and looking outwards a bit more from the get-go saves some trouble, as people will be more willing to give needed feedback if you seem like you'd be receptive of it. (asking while not being receptive is something to watch out for basically)
3: it's easy to trick yourself you're doing well, so resolving to do well may not always work out. To some extent you can strive to prevent failure, but you can also strive to handle failure well, which is arguably more important: learn from it, try to understand what you missed, look outside for answers before going back to your thing.
4: I'd rather put it as 'everyone has value: you do, others have'. I'm often tempted to blame either others or myself when things don't work out, but what I'm learning more and more is everyone has their reasons, as much as it sucks you can't always see others' or manage to explain yours. You get better the more you try at least.
Hope some of this was helpful, have a nice day
@@vokvovkov thanks for your feedback fellow IxxP!
Yes. Yes. I'll add that to my basket. Good. Haah, now it feels fine. Typical infp here
Very insightful. If you read about Enneagram type 5's in Don Riso's "Personality Types" book I think you will get a better sense of WHERE IxxP's are coming from.
IxxP's feel marginalized/outcast by the group, sometimes for being ignored/abandoned/awkward as kids. Thus, they EXPECT that no one cares about them UNLESS they have something very valuable to bring to the table. They don't feel they can just "jump into" a new situation until they built up enough skills / knowledge around it behind closed doors, without fear of being mocked / outcast for being out of step.
This is why they (1) don't check in with the tribe, (2) low-key think the tribe isn't self-reflective enough to understand itself, (3) fear the tribe's negative judgement, yet crave praise/validation... which signals that they are finally valued and belong.
Since their only "conversation partners" are themselves, they build up their own complex narrative of reasons to themselves, as you said, that might not correspond to the conventional ideas of the tribe.
Accurate description
This.
wtfff this is terrifyingly spot on
Very helpful, thanks! If you wana do something about how IxxP's can connect with the tribe, that'd be life changing!
Hate the tribe morons, but we also need them badly to realise some of all that "amazing" stuff we have in our heads, and get it to benefit someone, instead of constantly feeling unseen, undervalued and have this mountain of unrealised potential on your back... cheers
Usually I think you guys are dead on but in this case I think you're way off track. I don't think the significance aspect is about wanting tribe validation and praise, it's about fulfilling your own potential and trying to meet your own expectations regardless of what the tribe thinks. Compliments don't really matter and I don't think it's imposter syndrome either, IxxPs spend too much time building their own inner worlds and systems to fear being seen as a bullshi**er. If an IxxP's built something, it's because they've put the hours in to understand it at a deep level. If the tribe doesn't value the IxxPs creation then that's the tribe's problem but if just one other person truly understands that creation on a fundamental level then that connection has great significance. Individuals and Individualism are what's important, not society at large.
If there's one thing I think IxxPs are concerned about, it's meeting their own and other's expectations; that they've put the effort into something and once they've created those expectations from whatever they've created or achieved that they're then expected to be able to repeat and live up to that standard that they've put so much time and investment into achieving. It's less a fear of being found out as not being deserving of being on top of the pedestal but that you're expected to be able to keep climbing up on top of it time after time.
Yes, yes, yes. Never related to anything I've heard or read on this channel more. You hit the nail on the head for me.
SPOT ON ...
I can relate to the IxxP need to be self-reliant and independent and not wanting to ask for help. But I never understood the 'imposter syndrome' feeling. Everything I have achieved, I have earned, like Shan said. I think naturally I wouldn't even feel okay to achieve something I was not worthy of. I would easily step down for the tribe if it meant everything would be better for everyone. Also I am a big proponent of who earned what. Like if I was nominated President, I would be like, wait, that doesn't seem fair, Bob has worked here longer. Bob deserves that role. But if the tribe was like, No we like you, we think you would be the better President and everyone is saying this, then I would feel allowed and confident. No chance for imposter syndrome to set in.
-Te/Ne
Never trust the tribe! 😁
According to them you're not out of line with their theory though. I've definitively felt the "let me be more competent than I am" and regretting it.
But sometimes people think I am less competent than I am and it does bother me. - Ti
@Remy B I don’t know about Xavier, but I would feel grateful for the opportunity that someone was willing to provide and not waste it. Why would it make you an imposter to have support from people? Imposter syndrome is about excessive worry or feelings about being fraudulent even when you didn’t do anything fraudulent (like actually rig an outcome by deception, criminal behavior or false pretenses). There is definitely a difference between imposter syndrome and actually being an imposter. 😛
@Remy B Anyone can recognize their success is not in always in their control or feel like they have more than they deserve without succumbing to imposter syndrome (I certainly recognize that as a citizen of a wealthy country that sucks up half the globe’s resources). The difference is when someone places enormous guilt or shame on themselves for it, leading to low self-worth and paranoid fears about being “found out”. I encourage you to find out more about how imposter syndrome manifests, because it isn’t just about recognizing inequity in the world, it is a specific mindset about it that is more often distorted.
For me, impostor syndrome has been something I’ve felt since forever. I feel like things just “happen” to me. And not in the ‘someone else did the work and I didn’t give credit’ kind of way, but in the ‘I got a good grade in this exam I didn’t study for at all, and my friend who worked so hard for it and thus deserves it more didn’t’. In my life so far there haven’t been many things I think I worked really hard at, but somehow they all just work out. So it’s pretty rare for me to feel so Proud of myself for something I achieved, because it never feels like something I DID, but something I was fortunate enough to have HAPPEN to me. Say I were just naturally good at math so I ace a test, why would I feel proud of myself? I didn’t do anything myself there, I was just born this way 🤔 in this example. I still feel really happy when things “happen” but there’s no good good proud/glad/satisfied kind of thing.
Is this way of thinking flawed? I’ve felt that way forever. (-infp)
Edit: I don’t really feel afraid of people “finding out” I’m not all that, it’s more: afraid that the universe itself will find out. That I’ve had wayy too much luck thrown at me and things are going out of balance in the world, and eventually there will come a point where I get exactly the reward I deserve for how much I worked, and the “Luck Balance” of the universe will be fair again. I’m in my first year of uni right now, and now this is how I’m feeling x10. School was a breeze for me and now uni is actually hard, and I am definitely gonna fail if I don’t put in the work myself. I’m scared that I won’t be able to put in the amount of work I need to, and I will fail, just like I was supposed to in the first place if I weren’t so lucky before.
I completely can't stand asking people for help..
I am so arrogant in that point..
I can be miserable, but I will even work for free if I had to get something done and couldn't for some reason, I will work longer hours for free just to not admit that I failed
A few things:
-IXXPs seem to be a mystery to the two of you
-IXXPs get imposter syndrome by attaching too much of their identity to something
-EXXJs and IXXJs are the best coddlers around from my experience..too good
If so, would explain why I have so much trouble with this channel. I love the info, the rest of the system makes so much sense, then we get to the IxxPs and I'm left thinking.... am I really an IxxP or a deeply confused ExxJ?
As for imposter syndrome, I've found it's best to be honest early on about what you believe you don't know. Verbalize it, so if or when you're "found out" it isn't news to anyone because you've already admitted to it. If you end up doing well, you can accept the compliments for what they are.
As an intp why does this make me feel so special.
@XM actually I did the test kept getting intp/intj then years later my friend typed me intp and then showed me this channel as far as I know I'm FM INTP CSPB not sure how too officially write the code😂
Because right now the long list of downsides float Inside your subconscious. 🤡
us INTPs want to feel special x)
Because y’all are!
@@danad401 no u
I really don't think IPs (and Deciders in general) desire compliments. If youre getting compliments, it doesn't really translate to influence When you talk do people listen?
INFP here (I think, except after watching this video I’m not so sure) Here’s some of my fears/bs anecdotes having demon Te
- Really hard to simply ask a question to my professors in class bc I feel like an idiot, like I should know something automatically that I don’t
- Severe problems understanding people, what they think and how they view me. Feels like something I’m always chasing bc I know what I like, how I appear to myself, but I can’t see everyone else
- Once had a shirt I really liked and a “friend” made fun of it, so I never wore it again
- Also can’t accept compliments but in my case it’s for a different reason, which is I half ass everything I do, and am well aware of it so it doesn’t feel deserved. But on the opposite end of that, I can’t take criticism well either, it just feels like I’m being attacked 😂
- Just generally thinking everyone is out to get me. Another friend I had a phone call with, asked me where I was and what I was doing. I immediately became suspicious of her questions and replied with “why do you want to know, what are you implying I’m doing right now, it’s none of your business” etc, and felt bad about it afterwards bc she didn’t have any malicious intent. My dumb brain just thought she did
yesss i love examples. examples make everything easier to understand.
IxxP biggest fear: Handing yourself over to the group so they can turn you into an average of all of them. Losing yourself.
Omg yes
hmm, seems like maybe you still dont understand what IxxPs fear exactly. -INFP
How are we supposed to know if they don't tell us directly? 👽
To;dr: this video is now one of my greatest fears
So I was casually offended by this, but when I thought about it more, I remembered I used to “fish for compliments” a lot as a kid. I thought I quit doing so a long time ago, but now I’m realizing that I really just got way better at it. It usually ends up being in the form of small self-deprecating jokes tagged onto whatever else I’m talking about, and the scary thing is is that I had no idea I was doing it until now.
I thought I didn’t like receiving compliments because they honestly do make me feel awkward and I never know how to react, but at the same time, the times in my life when I’ve had the most motivation were times when I had a steady stream of affirmations flowing my way.
Maybe not because of pride so much, but more because I get the feeling of finally being valuable and feeling like I matter. (also irrational ik)
Side note: now that I think about it, the people I grow closest to the most quickly are the ones who give me the a ton of compliments, and here I was thinking Ixxps weren’t supposed to be shallow lol (
That's how they get manipulated. But that's why they distrust compliments that aren't genuine. So they only get the truth and evade the manipulation.
+1!
Maybe you're right. I'll have to sleep on that, a few nights. I honestly can't remember much of my childhood, I banned a lot of it from memory, but your argument makes sense.
However. I'll say, I can't be motivated with false compliments. If a compliment doesn't fit with my logical net I'll see right through it and the person uttering it will be marked as an untrusted manipulator.
That said, if the person making the compliment understands my logic and chooses a compliment I agree with, even when it may not be the truth in the end, I guess yeah that person may be able to manipulate me.
Its just that I think that might be a hard thing to pull off consistently without actually meaning the compliments.
And yeah. If a person actually means the compliments and I agree with them, they will have a lapdog in me. At least for a good time. That is who I am. And in not really trying to be someone else. It's integral to my identity, and changing it would be very difficult. Maybe I should try? Another thing to sleep on.
Rockie, so what do we have to do to handle this? Does this mean just to treat everyone's compliments like a grain of salt? If that's the case... then what is supposed to get us moving?
Well, yeah. As an INTP I am familiar with imposter syndrome. And you started out great. But with the latter third of your analysis I can't agree.
I don't really stack foreign praise and validation on each other like that. Maybe I did that as a VERY young person - I can't remember it but logically my current reaction probably came from somewhere. Because right now I'm bad at taking praise. I outright hate it and always try and deflect it away. Because I've seen people expecting too much from me as a result, and I absolutely hate it when that happens.
So yeah. You've hit an integral fear of mine head on, one that I myself probably wouldn't have been able to identify. But when it comes to how we get into these situations, I can't at all agree with your theory.
Yeah. It still happens that people overestimate me. It happened again just in this Corona crysis, which is messing with my tribe validation. So obviously I don't always do a good job at hedging others expectations. But it's not something I actively ask for, it's something I actively work to stop.
Maybe this is me trying to argue away my weakness, as you so often highlight (that people think that they are great at their demons). But I mean... If that's the case I'm still VERY blind to myself, and also it's not like I did deflect all potential problems, I just take issue with your theory on how we get there and what motivates us in what we do.
Thinking that we actively encourage others to praise us, and thinking that we don't ask for validation because we fear for our image, is a very De way of thinking. And yeah, as it comes to our Demon De that's accurate issues we have. But the reason I often don't ask others for help is usually not because I fear for their image of me. It's more to do with 1) me knowing that, if I CAN solve it myself, I'll learn more, and 2) when it's about image, it's about self image, and not about the image they might have of me.
Yeah we're proud like that. We don't really care how others see us, as all that matters is our self-image, the image others have of us is only important insofar as it can be used as a tool to get to our Ti goals and, as here, as an annoyance when people overestimate us.
Asking for help sucks, everyone’s gonna think I’m stupid, and can’t do anything by myself. They’re also gonna complain about while they’re helping me too. This has actually gotten me into trouble at work a few times. It’s even worse when you’re required to ask for help and you know you can do it alone.
Not that important but this is actually a POSITIVE feedback loop they're describing, as it continues to perpetuate itself rather than a NEGATIVE feedback loop, where it stops its own progress in either direction.
If you don't check your assumptions one way or another you are in a negative loop. It's really hard to get an IxxP out of a loop of negativity when they think/assume the tribe is lying/insulting/judging them. You're like "you're wrong, maybe you misinterpreted" and there's no way they change their mind because they don't check the info with the tribe. So there are two worlds: 1) the real one 2) the one they make themselves.
@@PumpkinSoup1234 positive and negative in this case are technical terms. That's what I was clarifying.
@ᗩᒪIYᗩᕼ see my other comment. Negative feedback loops and positive feedback loops are not defined as loops with negative or positive effects or qualities, they're loops that end themselves (negative) or continually perpetuate themselves (positive).
She’s a #1. Looking back it makes sense about Shan not relating to imposter syndrome.
“You don’t know _what_ you don’t know” That’s fricking scary to hear man.
I’m infp I think, pretty sure, and in this case what the hell is Fi?? What would be the thing I build up that I just don’t cross-check???
This video was fricking torture to watch! I hear one sentence (like “you feel that something’s off”) and COMPLETELY relate and understand and get freaked out by, but then they say nothing at all about it. No examples, no tips, and I don’t know what to do with this. I don’t even know exactly whattt I’m relating to, I just feel a gut reaction to it.
Could someone let me know what Fi here is??? Crazy stuff!
Their every video is like that. Short and incomplete. They critique but don't offer help. I don't know if that's an xNTJ thing to do. Offer no direction.
@@SS-bu8ez right, just scary stuff and goodbye
Tribe's exclusion is one of IXXPs biggest fear
Reminds me of that meme about men holding all and every compliment they ever got sacred forever.
I feel like compliments don't say in my bucket very long. I can take them, collect them all up and put them in my bucket, but they fall right out the bottom soon. Meanwhile the criticisms are like ink that lingers in the water.
@@BlueHazyDreams Are you an IxxP?
Man, I really need to get in touch with y'all on a professional level. Your videos have helped me IMMENSELY in the past year and, as a 49yr old INFP who has actively pursued a quixotic lifestyle, claiming to be 'spiritual but religious' and now identifies as a Christian Sufi; I feel that my wisdom gained through experience paired with your knowledge of the information patterns can be exponentially beneficial to everyone involved.
INFP'S have a moral/inner compass which we can't explain and with practice can work to deny and defy however whenever we do it just creates misery for us and everyone around us.
I'm so new to this that I feel silly saying it, but the Bible even talks about those who have a bright inner light will make others cringe in fear or lash out in anger...
It was through studying MBTI, Eastern and Western astrology, Tarot, as well as dabbing in Zen then eventually quantum physics that I began to see the similarities and differences between all of this information structures.
Each is like a roadmap, a menu, the road, and the meal, as well as a mirror to the hungry travelers. Each of them is also like the face on a die. Not one nor another is more valid, it's the individuals and what they do, every moment of everyday that counts. It's not what you do but how and why.
Anyways, I love y'all and your incredible work. If you want to chat I'm around, of not it is what it is!
Everything for better or worse is exactly as it should be until it changes for better or worse when it becomes exactly as it should be...(written from a bench outside Stuckeys in Stowell Tx, waiting out the rain, on my 7th day hitchhiking from Freeport Fl to Gonzales Tx!)
Be blessed y'all 🙏
Can you elaborate plz?
@@SS-bu8ez on which part? I've noticed in a few of y'all's videos, specifically INFP related, most notably the Kevin Bacon clip. In the video he was doing the introverted "I know I've been rejected, but that's nothing new, in reference to actors and thespians being some of the most cliquish and toxically passive aggressive folks to deal with.
Many times context gets lost with us and people judge our reactions and behaviors with the tribe/average litmus, when we are all too often the exception to the rule, for many of the reasons y'all state in other videos.
I apologise for being a bit scattered at the moment. I'm newly dumped, traveling to resolve a toxic relationship. I can be much more present and communicate in an effective manner in a few days to a week.
Regardless, I'm absolutely ecstatic about your videos and consume them voraciously!
Be blessed y'all
@@CreatureOfGoddess All of it. Perception isn't reality with Infps and Isfps but few ever understand that. To them how you say matters more than what you're saying.
@@SS-bu8ez I'm semi-delusional from extreme exertion, lack of sleep, and a tad bit of ye ole mania
Biggest fear is embarrsment, cringe, that myself and others will feel that way about me
I feel like there’s way more nuance than this video portrays (and it’s possible it’s meant to be that way, to show extremes). I find both IP and EJ’s can have imposter syndrome and both can take compliments they either deserve or don’t for different reasons. EJ’s will take compliments that relate to making the tribe happy and reject the ones that are about their own identity. Once they become aware of their Di they feel like they’ve built this identity up in the tribes eyes that is not really them. IP’s take compliments about their own identity and reject the ones that relate to making the tribe happy, and once they become aware of their De then they realize they weren’t paying attention to what the tribe did or didn’t like, so they never know where they fit with the tribe.
As an IP I can definitely say that the not asking for the tribe’s help is something I do. I often feel like I can’t, because I think I need to figure that out for myself and I often want others to figure those things out for themselves as well. I see it as personal boundaries. For things I do feel like I can ask about I don’t necessarily think the tribe is stupid, but I want their input and then to be able to consider what they said and I have to decide for myself what I think about it. To be expected to just take their input at face value is overbearing and controlling to me. De and Di working together the way they should recognizes that it’s not only that there are different ways to get to a goal, there are different ways to measure as well. Everything is less objective, from both Di and De perspectives, but it’s hard to find a balance. I think what’s missing from these observations is the process of people trying to find the balance and leaning in not just one direction but the other and all the nuance in between.
Like I said yeah these videos are about recognizing type, but when things are this simplified and exaggerated it can make it harder to recognize in real life.
This comes just at the right time
It’s hard to imagine hearing a compliment and not knowing if it’s valid. Either you kicked ass on something or you didn’t. If you didn’t it’s on you to get your crap together, figure out what you need to do and do it. External validation is not a huge source of our jenga blocks, and a lot of people who hand them out quickly seem a bit shallow so the complements are cheap too.
istp
Well I can understand this because asking for help can potentially make you look stupid and vulnerable and open to scrutiny, and some of us haven’t come to terms with that yet, especially with the potentially of being openly mocked, I mean if you had to deal with the same group every day I can see where the angst would come in, i.e. a job situation, you’d want to make sure you were on your toes, it’s a battlefield out there
infp: from my perspective my biggest fears are always existential shit and yeah it is very difficult to ask for help.
This reminds me so much of my brother in law. He's so delusional. He's all in on day trading as a way to make a living. Refuses to get a job even if he has three kids to feed. I typed him as istp. Did not graduate highschool, has no discipline or emotional control yet thinks he can be in 1-4% of people that consistently makes money trading. His family lives in a one bedroom apartment and he has dreams of buying a house by trading. Thinks he's a king that deserves respect, lots of kids and deserves to be followed. Reminds me very much of the story Don Quixote.
The girl at the end got her g wagon and now has a yt channel with 1.35M subscribers in case anyone was wondering
🤨 I hate 2020
My god...this society....
It's not so much about status. I literally don't think about what other people think about something. It's furthest from my mind when I stack my reasons. It's like a myopic blind spot now that you've mentioned it.
It's funny, though, because I worry about what people think of me, but rather than ask them I just assume (oh they must hate me because (x)) and rather than validate that I just live as if it's true (only to find out later it's not)
Pretty much 👍
Jup. First paragraph is the Ti, 2nd is the Fe inferior.
When they were talking about taking false praise they were likely projecting their Te. They got that totally wrong, and in quite an ironic way.
Where the hell do you find these clips at the end?? 😂
As an INTP my greatest fear is being alone
I think this gets at the heart of what IxxP's fear, even if most wouldnt word it this way.
*Lonely
Bruh this hit hard 😩
Im intp n love being alone most of the time n my greatest fear is being stupid, maybe idk. Or maybe im just fearless 😅😆
IxxPs don’t care about compliments or external validation. They care about meeting their own standards or potential. They may give the impression that they take compliments well, but it is because they don’t care much for them and they don’t take them too seriously.
From a Te perspective (who values external validation very much), Te might assume that Di loves taking in compliments, but this is only because Te places a lot of significance on external validation. But Di does not value external validation very much, it values (personal or fundamental) truth above all else. Di doesn’t care where the compliments go to, or if some people get compliments and others don’t. This is the difference between De and Di. And this is important to clarify because as Di, untrue information must be called out so that people will not continue to be misinformed.
Lol wow the collective unconscious is speaking to the IxxPs this week through both your channel and mine 😂
@DoubleA OP is fam. get out.
INTP here. I am not good at taking compliments. Example #1 - I recently interviewed for a job that I ended up being the runner up for. The HR person called to personally inform me and emphatically went out of her way to let me know hard of a decision it was to not offer me the position. She had lots of nice things to say about me. I did all the Fe gestures (thanked her for the opportunity, yada yada yada.) But in my head I'm thinking 'Yeah right. Obviously I am deficient in some significant way.' Example #2 - Often when my wife gives me compliments I don't believe her. I believe she means what she's saying, but because my self-critical Ti has provided a lot more reasoning to the contrary it usually wins out and as a result I immediately forget all of the nice things she said.
I suppose the fact that I don't vocalize my disagreement with said compliments, (and possibly even feign gratitude for them because of that annoying inferior Fe), it could be interpreted as me accepting them. But I rarely internalize them.
@6:55 this is incorrect. You are projecting yourself a little. IPs tend not to care about significance or status. In another video you talked about how we are clueless about status and we'll go and talk to people of higher status and you are all 'omg you can't do that!!' I tend to completely gloss over status and treat everyone on equal level.
Now that said I can recognize that when other people expect things from me and they think I know more than I do - there is definitely the 'I'm going to get found out' but it has less to do with status and more to do with the fact that I'm thrust into a position where I'm supposed to know things and as much as I try to learn I really don't know it all.
Jup. Exactly. And much better formulated than my rant.
Just out of interest, the IXFPs reading this, does this also apply to you or not? I can only speak out of my INTP perspective and take a decent guess for my ISTP Brother.
D&S aren't clear about this, but they are not incorrect.
IxxPs assert their own status (or lack thereof), "compliments" only count if their confirm their existing opinion of themselves.
ExxJ's are hyper aware of the status game (consciously or unconsciously), but lean on the Tribe to give them status, hence the "helpy helperton disease" of constantly needing indirect external validation.
IxxPs directly assert their own status because they refuse to play the status game.
ExxJs refuse to accept direct compliments because it conflicts with their focus on maintaining unity and fairness in the group.
I think all that Ixxps crave is the status actually. Am I respected? And to be more clear, are my ~values~ respected. For the Ixxp that is the same since we literally indentify with what we want. It becomes not just a part of us but literally who we are at times. We care only if we are respected in the spectrum. Bcuz we're the last ones to go to other ppl and watch them, be like them n just look what everybody else is doing. Since we obviously are living in the extroverted world we expect others to do it all for us bcuz Te is our demon. N we don't even realise it.
I would say I care about my own "version" of status, aka your status with me, how much I value you as a person, how significant you are personally to me. But the tribe's status no, not so much. So some celebrities have tribe status but no status with me, while some musicians for instance have plenty of status with me but little tribe status. I don't think I gloss over either status, like how my dad could just have a normal conversation with anyone famous like it was a stranger he bumped into. But I'm no stranger to talking to people regardless of status or personal significance to me even if I can't do it worth a damn. The people of high personal significance to me are, as you could imagine, really cool people to meet for me. It's like finally meeting someone of the same species who at the same time managed to be at least somewhat successful.
The ExxJ "empty" compliment.
"Thank you, you did a great job!" (Just pay me some nominal fee for showing up, and we won't have to talk about this anymore, k?)
"Well, that looks really nice!" (Thank you. Would you like a copy to take home n put under a refrigerator magnet?)
I am INFP, and I feel that my imposter syndrome comes from not having to work as hard to do things. I often just can do things on the first try and I feel like I deserve it less because other people have to work so much harder. As she said she has confidence because she worked for it, when I feel like something was easy I sometimes feel like I didn't earn it because I didn't have to work for it.
exxj that can't see how they have impostor syndrom right there
Hah!! Best comment.
Here too😢🙋♀️
I like how she sympathizes with IxxPs and if I weren't alone and this was mentioned in a group, I would walk out of the place hating it. I don't know why I hate that people sympathize with me especially when there are people whom I don't know much in the group.
The compliments often feels fake to us since we distrust the tribe. I personally have a few "chosen ones" that are "allowed" to compliment or criticize me, and I would take it into account. The rest of the tribe doesn't really matter, whether they hate or praise, because my inner critic voice just talks louder. It's a really weird experience when you notice that dynamic, and I often wish I had a more balanced approach to the me vs tribe, like Observers. Anyway, that's the Decider's predicament, and if we want more balance, we can work on it by taking example on the double deciders.
Damn, as if I didn't mistrust every compliment I've ever gotten enough...
Thank you for this, my gosh. I believe I have Fi first. Recently I've been getting some good movement and growth (I hope) from working on how I ask for help, uncovering that how I have been asking for help from my support people tends to cause them to complement or reassure me when what I thought I was asking for was guidance getting actual new life skills. Your video makes me think that the focus on identity wraps my attempts at functional questions in this weird need for validation and tends to be easily confused for a need for reassurance. Very helpful and thank you for not being too judgmental of our type's brand of crazy!
I had an experience yesterday that completely makes sense to me now. An ISFP friend needed to share to me about a disturbing incident that happened to him that he was really offended and upset by. I gave him some advice (I’m an EJ) that he was kind of receptive to but mostly he wanted to go on about how much he hated what happened. That was fine, but later the evening he texted back saying he was in a chill happy place. That’s good, but by the end I was like, the whole conversation was either how much he was in despair or that he was feeling good. There was no reasons whatsoever, logical reflection on his role in the incident whatsoever, as an ESTJ, I felt like I was just being used for advice or someone to vent to. The whole conversation seemed to be based on hate-love like Dave and Shannon describe with the IP. This video makes clear why there’s a problem waiting to rear it’s head in the ISFP-ESTJ relationship that I experienced first hand. Giant void indeed, as Shan says.
As an infp the last thing I want is a compliment- get the fuck out of my face with that shit. Admire what’s been built but please don’t talk to me.
The biggest fear I see is we value authenticity, but are deathly afraid of being authentic in case we are judged. That said if something really matters we are stoic and inflexible.
Im not sure if I'm an IP or not. But I've been thinking of myself as one for a few years. In my experience, I hate compliments that aren't connected to how I view myself.
If I've been working on building a house for 7 years and someone compliments me on my lawn that shit hurts. But if they notice the house I can't control my excitement. They saw my Di thing.
I think this applies to IXXJ Di jumpers, i think we tried complying with the tribe, but now its to the point of more "nah screwed them, take it or leave it"
Interestingly I dont need "praises" but dont shove blame. I know, a walking contradiction.
I’m an INFJ, Ni-Ti, and I can confirm. Sometimes it feels like life would be pretty great if I could be an ISTP whenever the tribe dismisses me, but the reality is that starving myself of Fe feels awful no matter how hard I fall back on Ti to try to intellectualize a rejection.
@@njb444 Ni-Ti here, I'm not sure the difference between demon masculine Fe vs demon feminine Fe?
I think the Ti keep our authenticity, and our real thoughts in check. I love harmony within the tribe, but we cant dishonor our reason/truth either.
I'd considered this, too... naturally, I want to believe as long as all the facts are accounted for in an unbiased manner, everyone can agree on a best course of action if the goal is the betterment of the tribe (Te). The major task is uncovering those facts to make a decision, and then the rest falls into place easily, therefore providing value to the tribe. No mess. No drama. Then, I discovered this strategy doesn't work the majority of the time (surprise!). Ni-Fi describes a "screw it" bypass, but like njb444, it's kind of impossible to let go of the desire to belong in some way, what with being miserably human and all. 😅
@@rationaloptimist4959 Demon masculine Fe - explosive rage
ruclips.net/video/c9uLsUySqxs/видео.html
Demon feminine Fe - passive aggressive
ruclips.net/video/lBe9g4xuln0/видео.html
My demon Fe is definitely masculine, and my Ti often has to take the role of diplomat to reason through conflicts. When I’m with difficult people, I try to de-escalate with reasonable compromises, and when I’m alone I’ll have an angry outburst at a slow computer.
Mine is : "I can't ask for help, cause that's admitting my lacking and annoying them, putting my own problems on there plate that they have to deale with wich is going to get them to hate me."
As an istp. Ive accepted one of biggest problems is that i meed to be needed. I fear being worthless or that the reason someone cares about me is completely arbitrarily. I try to control my value by constantly contributing something of necessary/ Pragmatic. . Im the "guy" people call when something is broke. Nothing is worse than feeling like a burden.
I'm an infp and my entire life is imposter syndrome, I'm cryyyying 🤣
Who are you, again? 😉
IxxP Greatest Fear: Sobriety
IxxP Greatest Fear Post-Sobriety: Consistently seeing glitches in the matrix like @3:25
i love how u combined 2 different videos at the end and made the drop more awesome 😂💜
I had imposter syndrome really bad in graduate school. I thought everyone else was SOOOO MUCH smarter than me and any moment they were going to realize I was too incompetent to be amongst them and I'd get kicked out. It was very anxiety-inducing experience. Then in one of our classes, the professor told us about Imposter Syndrome and I realized why I felt so bad. It got better after that. Basically you just have to realize that it comes from a lack of experience in something, so you have no frame of reference against which to judge yourself. I had never known anyone who had gone to graduate school before, much less for a science degree and much less with a rockstar graduate advisor like I had. I thought I'd just gotten extremely lucky. Turned out I fit pretty well. But yeah, Imposter syndrome sucks.
I’m an isfp i’ve experienced that my ego got waaaaaay too big cause i took all compliments to my heart. Compliments belong to the universe.
Yep, asking for help as Di is definitely uncomfortable. Even if someone puts up a sign saying "free help, please let me help you!", it would still feel odd to bow down and suggest that I need them.
Stacking, stacking, stacking the self. Contributing and engaging with the tribe takes a lotta conscious effort. Even something simple like writing this comment feels unnatural lol. But as implied in this video, we've got to balance that ratio of recieving vs giving.
The switch between Di and De can feel like whiplash when you've not done it in a while.
All of these things about IxxP's and "you are not allowed to ask the tribe, you must be self-sufficient....." makes me feel very attacked, but I fully embrace it. I realize that this is me, and it hurts, but it's good to know the truth, it's refreshing in a way.
As an ISTP Female, asking for help physically hurts but its more around I will only ask for help if I actually need the help and can't do it on my own. If someone said no it is such an incredible let down that it causes physical pain. So, I would rather not ask for the help and figure it out myself versus being let down by someone I needed help from.
I shrug off compliments that I think I don't deserve. Also I hardly ever compliment others. lol
Fi/Ne
I as a highly likely INTJ have imposter syndrome. For example, I'll pass an exam with flying colours, but a month afterwards, I'll look at the paper and think I don't remember anything from the syllabus and feel like it was somehow sheer luck that got me success.
INTJ here. Very good explanation Shan. I've got two exes who are both INFPs and this fits them both. And my ENTJ Dad will not take a compliment if his life depends on it.
I want Objective Personality to make cutting Te observations about my character and how I am typical so that I can learn who I am when I grow up.
I find personally as an IXXP that its more a bubble effect, like if I think I'm great no tribe criticism will penetrate that bubble, hence Di arrogance. If I think I'm horrible no tribe compliment will also penetrate the bubble- which is a lot of times where I think imposter syndrome sets in (for example job selection is in many ways the tribe saying we think you are qualified, if my Di thinks I'm under qualified and I don't value the tribe's input it leads to me thinking I'm an imposter who will eventually fail). Not sure if other IXXPs agree but that has been more my experience personally is not taking tribe input at all and this leading to the extremes when my personal view of self is misaligned with the tribe view
ISTP female and I would never ask for help so I would never be seen as incompetent
That is so true. Piling up Self Significance, constantly comparing self with a tribe. Constantly emphasizing ones understanding over tribes understanding. I don't ask for help, true. It's embarrassing, absolutely. Imposter Syndrome, that's the word to describe my fear. I feel like I have created a perception about me in others mind that I can't hold true. And its seems foolish to believe that I can create a perception in others mind for they have their own will, yet I feel I had created such persona of myself in there world. How do I get over this? How can I share?
Im an IP and my biggest fear is getting stuck in a situation I cant get out of
My husband is an ISTP (I'm an INFJ) and we've both been complaining about Christmas gifts. I've been worried about getting everyone what they want, he's been upset about how much it's all going to cost. So I thought I'd try to help him with his "problem" in this situation. I said that we should contact our family and have everyone choose one family to buy for, so that everyone only has to buy for a few people, vs everyone buying crap no one wants for EVERYONE. I thought it would take the weight off of everyone (including us). He immediately vetoed that idea, and he couldn't give me a real reason why. I thought it made a lot of sense. Now I realize that it would be a situation where he has to depend on everyone else, as well as give them a feeling that he might not be self-sufficient, which would be highly embarrassing.
Yep. As an IxxP, I view my interests and creative projects as so unique and particular that when someone compliments or shows actual interest in them it seems very rare and special to me so I cherish it and lap it up. In my earlier years, I did so with extreme naivety and only recently realized that can be a mere tactic some people use. The struggle comes into play when actually decent people do come around, I may be disappointed when they don't go out of their way to get to know me in terms of my creative projects for example. Trying to learn that interest and compliments don't make someone a good person or partner and on the flip side that lack of in depth interest in learning about my own little creative world doesn't make someone a bad person or partner, just different in how they connect with others. It's an active growth process
I love this discussion. I'm an INFJ married to an INFP and me and my sister (ENFJ) argue about if it's ok to give my husband fake compliments. I'm like hell no! They lose their value and why would someone want bullshit fed to them and she's like it's fine! It will make him happy so just have some fake compliments in the chamber to throw out when needed.
Di or at least Ti builds a logical framework and those only function if the foundational assumptions, beliefs, etc are correct. If they are wrong the entire belief system crumbles like a genga tower. That’s why we go so deep and take so much time to build our “identity”.