Naw, keep it the way it is, I love it. I love the highs of getting that PERFECT roll on what you want, and the lows of bricking one, then you gotta go out and hunt a new piece to try to get perfect. I think the system is exactly where it should be at. Otherwise every casual will just be running around in BIS and the gear farm will be short
Yh especially when you wanna play multiple builds & different characters. Farming all these mats & gear is too exhausting. Playing 1 character for me can get boring too. It needs to be flexible imo.
For those still confused: I think the title may be better as "we finally know how masterworking increases '+ skill' affixes on items". Basically, the table shows when your items will actually gain a +1 or 2 to a + skill affix when masterworking. So like, if you have a +3 passive skill on your amulet, using the table, you can determine if its worth it or not to try to get all 3 of you large 25% increase upgrades (masterwork crits) on the +skill affix or settle for 1 or 2 crits and let the others fall onto another affix like +damage % or whatever you like best for your build/items. The info/table is just to help you be more efficient with your mats and really min/maxing your gear.
It only shows, that if you want the maximum gain, you need crits on 4 and 8. If you do not crit the +skill on 4/8, you only get +2. So a item which crits on 5 is already not best in slot, and you can stop after your second crit, and go directly for a new item, which can crit on 4 and 8
That behavior on unique items need to be changed so every crit brings some benefit. It is crazy that winning a jackpot, ie. hitting crit twice on a +skill, just does not give you anything in return.
I almost feel like the unique item interaction is bugged and it should not be rounding down. It's purely devoid of logic to be inconsistent with how it ranks up between legendaries and uniques.
@@megajunghans4134 this is literally video game terminology. Crit or Proc are both terms that people would use in this situation, and have been for over 30 years.
@@IplayTeemoasaWardok, now look at it like this. What if my char has 100% crit chance. That means it's no longer a chance it's just a crit, period. Not crit chance. Now stay with me here. If I know my char will always crit on my 4th, 8th, 12th attack. You could call that a 100% crit chance every 4 attacks, but it's not a chance. It's guaranteed. What im saying is. Crits aren't always chances. They are just a bigger number than normal. Which is exactly what masterworking ranks 4,8, and 12 are.
Uniques goes up by a decimal point. Say you have winterglass at 2 ranks of conjuration To get it to improve you need to mw on conjuration twice to get it to improve to 3.
Great knowledge, thanks to everyone involved. Now I understand my Fractured Winterglass, which I still only have gotten ONE of, is not totally weak, and I can actually get +3 on it! Lovely
Knowing when to hold for w/e reason usually for me it’s always that call between how good it hit vs mats costs. Now we know the thresholds. This is extremely helpful. Thanks for bringing this out. Now we know exactly instead of just feeling it out.
TIL that masterwork crits don't also add the usual 5% across the board increase all the other levels do. Whole thing makes a lot more sense: every 30% increase bumps you up a skill level. ezpz
To those that are confused it’s much easier to understand by just looking at the spreadsheet. My question is do tempered affix’s that have +to skills follow the same pattern as legendaries?
@sometimes…icomment7456 ~ so, +1 or +2 Unique’s are same with following exceptions(?): A. +1 ranks to +2 with ZERO GA rolls (@12) B. +1 & +2 rank to +3 with ONE GA roll C. +2 ranks to +4 with THREE GA rolls Do both +1 and +2 rank to +4 with 3 GA rolls or only +2?
This was super informative! The example in the latter part of the video was very topical because I've been trying to masterwork my GA Storm's Companion which only has +4 to wolves 😂
This is great information to have! Was always wondering how much it actually mattered to hit the crits on the skill ranks. My biggest fear was that I would reset a bunch of times for a triple crit it wouldn't even result in another rank. Also helps to know the breakpoints on the Uniques. For instance, now I know it's not worth chasing the second crit on my Scoundrel's Kiss until I get one with a greater affix. Since the grind for the masterworking materials is a lot of time investment, glad I know this now instead of finding out later the hard way.
TLDR: on +skills, make sure to crit at the 4th to save mats later on. If you don’t crit at 4, reset and go again. Much less expensive and higher odds to max the gear
I did some testing myself and found out, that Masterworking is calculated from the base - non GA - value of a given affix. Unique example: i have a Butcher's Cleaver with a GA on Damage to Crowd Controlled Enemies, value is: 31.5% * 1.5 = 47.3% (difference of 15.8%) When i upgraded the weapon to ranks 1, 2 and 3, i got the following values: Rank 1 - 48.8%; Rank 2 - 50.4%; Rank 3 - 52.0% This means, that the 5% Masterworking upgrade is calculated from the base value of 31.5% and NOT the GA affix's 47.3% Here is the calculation: 31.5% * 1.05 = 33.07% + 15.8% = 48.87% (item shows 48.8%) If you now start with the GA value of 47.3% and add Masterworking, the results would be: 47.3% * 1.05 = 49.6% for Rank 1, 52% for Rank 2 and 54.4% for Rank 3. Legendary example: pants GA on Maximum Life: 1310 (base value of 873 * 1.5) Masterworking resulted in the following values: Rank 1 - 1353, Rank 2 - 1397 and Rank 3 - 1441. Here too, the 5% Masterworking is calculated from the base value of 873 (873 * 0.05 = 43.6 - differences after each Masterworking upgrade) and the 50% bonus from the GA is simply added at the end. This brings me to the conclusion, that a greater afiix is just one bucket of a given affix. And maybe thats the reason, why values are often not what we expect especially on +X to a skill. Sorry if all this was already known, it was new to me though.
In regards to skills stating with +1 on uniques (you used the example of banished lords). Said it would go to 2 with no crits. But could be three with one crit. I have double critted amplify on blood moon breeches and it is still 2. So it didn’t get three per your example, but seems it would have been 2 regardless. Thoughts? Very helpful video though I had these questions. Thanks
Thanks Wudi, amazing info and to be honest easy to understand just by listening and looking into the spreadsheet for 3sec...Some people need to stop blaming others for their IQ tbh.
Well great I hit a +skill twice on a unique now I have to decide to reset it now or take it to 12/12 and potentially reset a fully masterworked piece if I don't get the third one By the way if you're confused just go to the planner and mess around with it, it's much easier to understand if you see it visually
I think you should compare +3 to a +3 item. When doing it for uniques. Due to percentage increases +2 and +3 dont work the same. So additional levels will be slower for +2 always.
I crit twice on Golem Mastery first try and on my 12th I reset it because because its not triple crit and now it has been 4 days trying to reroll. Moral of the story, once u hit twice, just accept it and move on 😭
masterworks and getting enough gear to temper what you need are only plausible for people who play this game as a full time job. 80% of people will brick a couple of items and keep them on just because they don't play every hour of every day. Same with masterwork. 80% of people won't make it past the first 4 masterworks, let alone rolling it again because of extreme lack of gold.why would Blizzard think it's a good idea to make everything gold based, but make gold harder to get than Uber Uniques?
I've said it many times but streamers and content creators ruin gaming. The devs see these people get perfect gear , billions of gold and going past pit 130 and think "yeah we did it our game is perfect and fun! Meanwhile 80% of their actual player base is struggling to put together anything because well they actually have to go to work and can't dump 8+ hours a day into the game. These people also have a big fan base that'll feed them all the gear they need. 😊
Not really. I have an 8 hour work every weekday. I started May 20. I play 2-3 hours a day. Got weekends off. I've got all my gear to rank 8 and all tempered. Got 5 glyphs at 21
Pretty sure going deeper into the pit and getting the perfect triple crit masterwork on each piece was meant as a long term goal to have the hardcore playing for long. Casuals will drop off far before any of these activities and they are not even needed to enjoy the game.
This is definitely not the case. It doesn't take that long to farm gold if you're economically minded. Most people don't pay any attention to the economy and end up vendoring items that aren't useful for their builds despite them selling for tens of millions of gold.
As always, great video! Thank you for putting all this into a chart that we can look at. As a casual player, I will never get that far in Masterworking but it’s nice to have this information.
Im disillusioned with this system, i want to push, but you really need to upgrade one stat (i.e ranks to bash) but the rng of it and massive time and resource investment puts me off.
are the extra 136 pits (what you would need to go form a BiS 8/12 to a BiS 12/12 on average with 50 mats per pit) really worth the +1 level is the question. It's quite easy to get the 8/12 you want (if you can do 90+ pits easily I guess, but that's a given on most builds) and the last level is to give a goal to the nolifers or streamers
@CrystalStearOfTheCas I struggle hard with the bosses. WW absolutely destroys mobs, but the boss dps is horrendous, the boss takes me 3-4x longer than clearing the dungeon leading up to it. And the longer you spend fighting it the more likely you are to make a mistake and get 1hko
Does that mean that if I get "The Oculus" for the Sorc with greater affix +15 to teleport, that I will end up at a +27 to teleport or at a whopping +33 to teleport? Because 10 * 2.7 = 27 and 15 * 2.2 = 33 and it is not clear to me why the greater affix bonus already counts as 50 % masterworking bonus and why the greater affix of +15 ranks to teleport is not the basis for the 120 % masterworking bonus.
*Hmmm so it does not matter if you rolled +1 or +2 on your unique, they both catch up at 2, and if you masterwork crit once they are both at 3. So buying the one with +1 roll might actually be cheaper and save you some gold, because people who don't know this will pay premium for +2 roll on a unique.*
Hi, no, its due to a bug in the maxroll planer. The +1 Unqiues starts at 1,4. and at +45% (Rank11) they get 2,03 and upgrades to +2. In this moment the maxroll planer loses his information if the starting value was +1 or +2 becasue at start value from +2 is still only a 2 (2,9) and the planer dont know what to do and make any further calculation if it was starting +2. I got this information some weeks ago from Maxroll Member Slothmaster, who is an planer expert, after he investigate the probmem with the +1 i told him. If you want to see the actual behavior of an +1 passive unique, you want to choose one with no range like the Banished Lord's Talisman.
@SaranjivacSRB A +1 unique needs all three masterwork crits on the same affix (extremely unlikely) to get to +3; the +2 unique gets there with just one crit. There's a clear difference in quality between the items.
Wait so I want to confirm, if I have a GA core skills banished lords talisman, no masterwork crits will ever get it to +4? One crit and three will both get it +3, so the last two crits are a waste? Has anyone seen this in-game and not on the planner?
@@agularis_ Correct, according to the math and the planer, you will have with one crit 3,08 and with 3 crit 3,78, so no difference. No i didnt test it in game. But i should be 1,4 from the base + (50% from GA + 45% from normal Masterworking (9x) and 25% or 75% for 1 or 3 crits. Result in 120% or 170% so 1,4*2,2 = 3,08 and 1,4*2,7 = 3,78.
so for skill group A,you have an item with +Skill and a random stat,if you get +25% on a random stats 2 times(which is 2 procs),the upgrade 8 and 10 will hit the +Skill stats?
You're looking at the wrong row. If your item has rolled the +25% bonuses (procs or whatever you wish to call them) on the wrong stat, you have to look at the topmost *0 procs* row. If at ranks 4, 8, or 12 you get lucky and receive +25% to your chosen skill, then you move on to the next row. I'm sorry but I don't know how to properly explain the whole thing in a RUclips comment.
Why is everyone complaining about how Wudijo poorly explained this? those people complaining basically don't know how masterworking works. I understood every bit of it.
Am i understanding the game loop correctly? Are pits the only way to get Obducite, Ingolith and Neathiron? Just feels weird IMO to be forced to push pits to masterwork your gear.
As always thabk you. Have you noticed that the tool tip for Fire bolt and Frost bolt enchantment do not grow stronger with additional ranks? Is the tool tip bugged or do they no longer provide more potency as enchantments with additional ranks?
conclusion: skill gets 1 rankup per 30% increase regardless of its initial value. master work gives 5%per lv, 20% extra on crit(total 25%). So if u crit 3times on skills then 20*3 + 5*12=120% (4 ranks up)
Diablo 3 allowed me to compase the base values of upgraded items against a new item. So I know when I'm getting a better item. How do you do that in D4? Right now, I'm using a spreadsheet to store base values so I can compare.
After pausing and watching the video for 40 mins, I finally understand 80% of it. I admire Wudi’s skill as a player but I gotta say it’s sometimes difficult to get his explanation the first time watching. I think always rounding down for unique is too punishing. Could it be Blizzard’s mistake though..? I wouldn’t be surprised if they accidentally used floor instead of round for Masterworking calculation. It’s blizzard after all.
I understood it no issue with one watch. And I struggle very hard with understanding people with accents. So maybe it's not a problem with wudi and maybe you just have a problem with your comprehension skills?
For Bash Barb- some guides/streamers say make a rogue to roll Crit Dmg on weapons instead of Dmg to Close. But this needs high Crit Chance on glove, rings, ammy... What is the exact Crit Chance number where I should switch from Dmg to Close (make rogue) and roll Crit Dmg? My brother says don't do that, he says DMG to Close to better than Crit dmg. How do I know? Explain this in depth plz.
I'm at 43 or so base crit on my bash and I'm still not critting as much as I'd like. It's still completely bare of MW as it's an alt to my rogue. With good luck on MW I'd guess I'm going to be sitting around 60/70 base, with the three pieces you mentioned having crit chance. Overall I would say that rolling crit at the very top end might have an edge but it is a much more difficult setup. Rolling AS+ crit on 3 jewelry is a challenge.
No idea. Everyone suggest different stuff. I recently got rid of all my close damage and bumped my crit damage to 1500 with 45 crit chance. I rolled crit damage on every weapon with bash cleave. I’ve been able to push higher in the pit and nms and I still haven’t hit a wall. I think I’m at 50 something on the pits now. I have heard a 3 to 1 for crit damage and vulnerable is optimal but I’m at like 7 to 1
I'm torn with my Doombringer. Hit max health at level 4 and 8, but hit damage at level 12 (thorn build). Can't decide if it's worth resetting it and risking not getting those rolls the next time.
Its still not clear to me if the percentage needed to gain a rank needs to be exactly on the skill or this percentage can be spread out to all other affixes. Like, if i have a total of 30% on all other affixes, my next non-ctit would increase my +skill or not? Could someone just clarify that?
Item with 0 upgrade: U need 7/12 Masterwork to get +1 more skill (cap) Item with 1 upgrade: U need 9/12 to get +2 more skill Item with 2 upgrades: U need 10/12 to get +3 more skill Item with 3 upgrades: Max +4 skill
Question: What if I don't proc a +skill, so it goes up by one at rank 7, what if then it does proc it at rank 8? which row of the table will be followed then? I hope what I'm asking is clear.
I just had this scenario happen to me on a tempered Imposing Presence. I didn't pay close enough attention, but I think when it did crit on rank 8, it didn't increase in rank. I just masterworked it to rank 9, and it DID increase in rank. This means that if you don't crit on rank 4, it will go up one level on rank 7. Then if you crit on rank 8, it won't go up a level. But then on rank 9 it WILL go up a level.
I have a question about Uniques. I have a Winterglass with GA Conjuration Mastery, so it starts at 3. i upgraded it to 11/12 and hit 1 proc on it, so by the calculation, it should have a 70% increase (45% from normal upgrades, 25% from proc, so 3x1.7=5.1). But at 11/12 it is still only at +4 to Conjuration Mastery, is my calculation wrong or is there another rule for GA skills on uniques?
The base value which you multiply with 1.7 is 2 and not 3. GA adds a 50% additive increase (so +1 rank) at the end, but doesn’t impact the base value in MW calculations.
So, according to the chart. A +2 blood surge gloves should crit at 4/12 but it crits on intelligence instead. Either the chart isn't right or the explanation of the chart isn't good.
Wait so I want to confirm, if I have a GA core skills banished lords talisman, no masterwork crits will ever get it to +4? One crit and three will both get it +3, so the last two crits are a waste? Has anyone seen this in-game and not on the planner?
No flaws? What about the time he got perma banned on d3 for botting and then tried to act like it didn't happen and got mad at people when they called him out?
Ok so just upgraded winterglass with GA +3 lvl conjure mastery. It got 25% on mastery 3 times. Got +4 at 5 and +5 skill at 12 with the 25% hit 3. Don’t know why but seems that your sheet doesn’t add up and I’m not as OP as I should be.
Well not that surprised from the start of the game most uniques fill lacking or weak , now especially they need to buff them make them really unique . And it wont hurt any one to give them tempering .
Hi wudi i have an Uber unique doombringer vht when i master worked it i got 25% to damage, life on hit and one on max health. If i remaster work it can i possibly get 3 25% rolls on max health? And what is masterwork critting?😊
So simply, it is only useful to update a item to 12, if it crits on 4 and 8. In all other cases, you stop updating on your second crit, and farm better a other item for the updating.
@wudijo I have a couple questions I am using ur site maxroll for quite a long time and I am very happy with it using it a lot for D2 but for D4 i can't find a Eternal realm endgame tierlist wich i really would like too have And...there is a PVP section for D4 with a text there will be PVP guides before season 1 stay tuned... could you guys pls make a PVP and endgame Eternal realm tierlist ? Would be much appreciated
The maxroll planner is wrong. When you upgrade winterglas from 1 to 12 on a rank 1, and you crit once, the planner says it will go to 3 but it does not. it actually became 2. should be fixed asap because people will believe the planner and waste materials.
I hate the makers of this game, they do everything in their power to make you weaker or make it hard for you to roll anything on your gear. getting that to hit 3 times is gonna be very hard and you will waste billions. I honestly hate this system so much because there are so many things on gear and its so hard to level up what you actually want. not to mention bricking gear when you temper. I might have to skip next season because this makes me extremely mad. Its like you are grinding your life away for nothing. I probably wont have my build the way I actually want it by the end of the season.
i figured it was something like this when i didnt get the expected values on my items. kinda dumb. would prefer if it just gave +1 per crit and every 4th, simple and no nonsense
Considering how this game's community acts all high and mighty and superior to everyone, I am amused and shocked at how stupid these people really are. TLDR: Literally 2nd grade math, introductory level of multiplication. You have +2 Ranks and hit +25% increase at level 4 masterworking to said Ranks increase. 3 levels of 5% each = 5% + 5% + 5% = 15% +25% from level 4 = 15% + 25% = 40% Now you multiply the +2 Ranks with 40% = 2 x 1.4 = 2.8 If the decimal result is .5 or higher, it will round up. In this case to 3.0 If the decimal result is below .5, it will round down. In this case to 2.0 -> meaning, no change displayed.
@@thoso1973when your in town and the whole video is on master working what else could crit mean? There’s no official term for it in game so people have been using proc/crit/boost for it pretty interchangeably
What other mechanic would you like to see explained in-depth? What else is there, that is a mystery to you?
Tempering
Damage calculation and optimized thresholds
@@GrummeFar I will also say Tempering.
How do you change loadouts and builds in this game? Is there a way similar way like in Diablo 3?
I see videos about tempering and pity rolls, would be good to confirm the mechanics behind this as I don't think pity exists in tempering.
Tempering needs option to accept new roll or keep one you had. Without that, tempering bricks as much gear as it improves.
Naw, keep it the way it is, I love it.
I love the highs of getting that PERFECT roll on what you want, and the lows of bricking one, then you gotta go out and hunt a new piece to try to get perfect.
I think the system is exactly where it should be at.
Otherwise every casual will just be running around in BIS and the gear farm will be short
Yh especially when you wanna play multiple builds & different characters. Farming all these mats & gear is too exhausting. Playing 1 character for me can get boring too. It needs to be flexible imo.
blizzard be like... but thats the plan mouhahaha
That’s kinda the point of crafting in ARPGs. Gettin good items would’ve even be an enjoyable moment if the game handed u BIS items with ease.
As if getting fully geared in a day isn't fast enough
For those still confused: I think the title may be better as "we finally know how masterworking increases '+ skill' affixes on items". Basically, the table shows when your items will actually gain a +1 or 2 to a + skill affix when masterworking.
So like, if you have a +3 passive skill on your amulet, using the table, you can determine if its worth it or not to try to get all 3 of you large 25% increase upgrades (masterwork crits) on the +skill affix or settle for 1 or 2 crits and let the others fall onto another affix like +damage % or whatever you like best for your build/items.
The info/table is just to help you be more efficient with your mats and really min/maxing your gear.
You did a better job in this comment than the person in the video. Thank you.
It only shows, that if you want the maximum gain, you need crits on 4 and 8.
If you do not crit the +skill on 4/8, you only get +2.
So a item which crits on 5 is already not best in slot, and you can stop after your second crit, and go directly for a new item, which can crit on 4 and 8
@@aqvamarek5316 and exactly how do you crit on 5? when it only crits on 4/8/12??...
@@aqvamarek5316 what
@@aqvamarek5316I could tell by your first comma that your effort was probably going to fail to some degree.
Maybe it’s just me. But I can’t understand at all.
Same bro. Same.
Can’t blame you. It’s just bad presentation on his part.
Me too I got a little bit at the end, watching the video multiple times helps a lot. Good luck with ur grind
Mby the game is just shitty haha :(
Yeah the ranks example just needed to be drawn or something. Very hard to understand.
After reseting a weapon mw like 8 or 9 times and getting the same two mw crits every time I gave up and now I just leave it on whatever it hits on
Yep, 250 leg mats are way too expensive. And at 70 caped per run is just stupid
@@ownagebox sounds like he didn't even go past the second crit
same, just don't care anymore 🤣
It's not a system that's meant for casuals, thats for sure
Umhuh, i just spent 40mil+ resetting and rerolling on two gears. I'll repeat the process in another 3 days I guess......
That behavior on unique items need to be changed so every crit brings some benefit. It is crazy that winning a jackpot, ie. hitting crit twice on a +skill, just does not give you anything in return.
bad design
I almost feel like the unique item interaction is bugged and it should not be rounding down. It's purely devoid of logic to be inconsistent with how it ranks up between legendaries and uniques.
When says Masterworking CRIT, he means the 4th ,8th and 12th upgrade when Masterworking.
why not say that instead and invent new, confusing terminology?
@@megajunghans4134 this is literally video game terminology. Crit or Proc are both terms that people would use in this situation, and have been for over 30 years.
@@Fishpks Crit very much implies a chance to do something greater.
There is no chance at 4th, 8th and 12th, it always happens
@@Fishpks no it is not
@@IplayTeemoasaWardok, now look at it like this. What if my char has 100% crit chance. That means it's no longer a chance it's just a crit, period. Not crit chance. Now stay with me here. If I know my char will always crit on my 4th, 8th, 12th attack. You could call that a 100% crit chance every 4 attacks, but it's not a chance. It's guaranteed. What im saying is. Crits aren't always chances. They are just a bigger number than normal. Which is exactly what masterworking ranks 4,8, and 12 are.
the title may be better as "we finally know how masterworking increases '+ skill' affixes on items".
We already know how it works for non + skill affixes. It is a percentage increase for them.
*watches video* ahhh I see, *proceeds to reset masterwork how I’ve been doing the whole time before this video*
Uniques goes up by a decimal point. Say you have winterglass at 2 ranks of conjuration To get it to improve you need to mw on conjuration twice to get it to improve to 3.
I would like to see how weighted are certain temper affixes. Thanks to all who did the testing. Much appreciated.
Great knowledge, thanks to everyone involved. Now I understand my Fractured Winterglass, which I still only have gotten ONE of, is not totally weak, and I can actually get +3 on it! Lovely
wait until you get a +2 version that you crit, but still stays at +2. Mine turned to +3 at 6/12
Knowing when to hold for w/e reason usually for me it’s always that call between how good it hit vs mats costs. Now we know the thresholds. This is extremely helpful. Thanks for bringing this out. Now we know exactly instead of just feeling it out.
TIL that masterwork crits don't also add the usual 5% across the board increase all the other levels do. Whole thing makes a lot more sense: every 30% increase bumps you up a skill level. ezpz
To those that are confused it’s much easier to understand by just looking at the spreadsheet. My question is do tempered affix’s that have +to skills follow the same pattern as legendaries?
@sometimes…icomment7456 ~ so, +1 or +2 Unique’s are same with following exceptions(?):
A. +1 ranks to +2 with ZERO GA rolls (@12)
B. +1 & +2 rank to +3 with ONE GA roll
C. +2 ranks to +4 with THREE GA rolls
Do both +1 and +2 rank to +4 with 3 GA rolls or only +2?
Beautiful, thank you. The chart is awsome I took a print screen and saved it :D
This was super informative! The example in the latter part of the video was very topical because I've been trying to masterwork my GA Storm's Companion which only has +4 to wolves 😂
Re: Fractured Winterglass, If +2, hit 1x for +3 or 3x for +4? I’m just trying to get to 4x but have no idea when/where to do it…
This is great information to have! Was always wondering how much it actually mattered to hit the crits on the skill ranks. My biggest fear was that I would reset a bunch of times for a triple crit it wouldn't even result in another rank. Also helps to know the breakpoints on the Uniques. For instance, now I know it's not worth chasing the second crit on my Scoundrel's Kiss until I get one with a greater affix. Since the grind for the masterworking materials is a lot of time investment, glad I know this now instead of finding out later the hard way.
This is really easy to understand.... At least for people with an IQ over room temperature
Great vid! Was wondering why my conjuration mastery was still at 3 after getting the Crit on 4 and 12, cheers bro
TLDR: on +skills, make sure to crit at the 4th to save mats later on. If you don’t crit at 4, reset and go again. Much less expensive and higher odds to max the gear
I did some testing myself and found out, that Masterworking is calculated from the base - non GA - value of a given affix.
Unique example: i have a Butcher's Cleaver with a GA on Damage to Crowd Controlled Enemies, value is: 31.5% * 1.5 = 47.3% (difference of 15.8%)
When i upgraded the weapon to ranks 1, 2 and 3, i got the following values: Rank 1 - 48.8%; Rank 2 - 50.4%; Rank 3 - 52.0%
This means, that the 5% Masterworking upgrade is calculated from the base value of 31.5% and NOT the GA affix's 47.3%
Here is the calculation: 31.5% * 1.05 = 33.07% + 15.8% = 48.87% (item shows 48.8%)
If you now start with the GA value of 47.3% and add Masterworking, the results would be: 47.3% * 1.05 = 49.6% for Rank 1, 52% for Rank 2 and 54.4% for Rank 3.
Legendary example: pants GA on Maximum Life: 1310 (base value of 873 * 1.5)
Masterworking resulted in the following values: Rank 1 - 1353, Rank 2 - 1397 and Rank 3 - 1441.
Here too, the 5% Masterworking is calculated from the base value of 873 (873 * 0.05 = 43.6 - differences after each Masterworking upgrade)
and the 50% bonus from the GA is simply added at the end.
This brings me to the conclusion, that a greater afiix is just one bucket of a given affix.
And maybe thats the reason, why values are often not what we expect especially on +X to a skill.
Sorry if all this was already known, it was new to me though.
So what you saying is, basically, GA is additive, not multiplicative with Masterworking.
@@VicJang Yes thats the point.
In regards to skills stating with +1 on uniques (you used the example of banished lords). Said it would go to 2 with no crits. But could be three with one crit. I have double critted amplify on blood moon breeches and it is still 2. So it didn’t get three per your example, but seems it would have been 2 regardless. Thoughts? Very helpful video though I had these questions. Thanks
Hopefully Raxx makes a video on this, because I have no idea what Wudi is saying
Yes. I second this.
you dont even need to understand, just look at the spreadsheet lol :D
Thanks Wudi, amazing info and to be honest easy to understand just by listening and looking into the spreadsheet for 3sec...Some people need to stop blaming others for their IQ tbh.
Well great I hit a +skill twice on a unique now I have to decide to reset it now or take it to 12/12 and potentially reset a fully masterworked piece if I don't get the third one
By the way if you're confused just go to the planner and mess around with it, it's much easier to understand if you see it visually
I think you should compare +3 to a +3 item. When doing it for uniques. Due to percentage increases +2 and +3 dont work the same. So additional levels will be slower for +2 always.
So if you reset the item, would it hit the same affix/tempor or passive skill over and over again?
ofc not, its semi random, otherwise you wouldnt be able to hit other stats. You reset until you hit what you need.
@@AdskyDimon ah okok, I was getting that idea from the video. I semi don't understand still, gotta watch it again
I crit twice on Golem Mastery first try and on my 12th I reset it because because its not triple crit and now it has been 4 days trying to reroll. Moral of the story, once u hit twice, just accept it and move on 😭
What does "proc" mean on the spreasheet?
masterworks and getting enough gear to temper what you need are only plausible for people who play this game as a full time job. 80% of people will brick a couple of items and keep them on just because they don't play every hour of every day. Same with masterwork. 80% of people won't make it past the first 4 masterworks, let alone rolling it again because of extreme lack of gold.why would Blizzard think it's a good idea to make everything gold based, but make gold harder to get than Uber Uniques?
I've said it many times but streamers and content creators ruin gaming. The devs see these people get perfect gear , billions of gold and going past pit 130 and think "yeah we did it our game is perfect and fun! Meanwhile 80% of their actual player base is struggling to put together anything because well they actually have to go to work and can't dump 8+ hours a day into the game. These people also have a big fan base that'll feed them all the gear they need. 😊
Not really. I have an 8 hour work every weekday. I started May 20. I play 2-3 hours a day. Got weekends off. I've got all my gear to rank 8 and all tempered. Got 5 glyphs at 21
The game has to cater to casuals, as well as people that go hard...
You're a casual, you can't 100% the game...how do you not understand this concept?
Pretty sure going deeper into the pit and getting the perfect triple crit masterwork on each piece was meant as a long term goal to have the hardcore playing for long.
Casuals will drop off far before any of these activities and they are not even needed to enjoy the game.
This is definitely not the case. It doesn't take that long to farm gold if you're economically minded.
Most people don't pay any attention to the economy and end up vendoring items that aren't useful for their builds despite them selling for tens of millions of gold.
Thanks for the table. It really helps which gear to reroll.
As always, great video! Thank you for putting all this into a chart that we can look at. As a casual player, I will never get that far in Masterworking but it’s nice to have this information.
Im disillusioned with this system, i want to push, but you really need to upgrade one stat (i.e ranks to bash) but the rng of it and massive time and resource investment puts me off.
are the extra 136 pits (what you would need to go form a BiS 8/12 to a BiS 12/12 on average with 50 mats per pit) really worth the +1 level is the question. It's quite easy to get the 8/12 you want (if you can do 90+ pits easily I guess, but that's a given on most builds) and the last level is to give a goal to the nolifers or streamers
@@CrystalStearOfTheCas"90+ is a given on most builds"
YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO MAKE IT PERSONAL
*Cries in WW Twister Barb*
@@KyloB WW barbs can't clear 90 rifts? Oh how the mighty spiny bois have fallen
@CrystalStearOfTheCas I struggle hard with the bosses. WW absolutely destroys mobs, but the boss dps is horrendous, the boss takes me 3-4x longer than clearing the dungeon leading up to it. And the longer you spend fighting it the more likely you are to make a mistake and get 1hko
Its not 1 rank to bash that gonna make or break your build. welcolme to ARPGs
the maxroll planner used to use other results as your tests, is it fixed?
Does that mean that if I get "The Oculus" for the Sorc with greater affix +15 to teleport, that I will end up at a +27 to teleport or at a whopping +33 to teleport? Because 10 * 2.7 = 27 and 15 * 2.2 = 33 and it is not clear to me why the greater affix bonus already counts as 50 % masterworking bonus and why the greater affix of +15 ranks to teleport is not the basis for the 120 % masterworking bonus.
Thanks for the video, does anyone have a link to the spreadsheet? The link to the imgur seems to be missing...?
Your videos helped SO MUCH. Big thank you
So + skills upgrade for every 30% no matter their starting value? So a 1 base vs a 2 base is almost the same end value?
Devs need to reduce the master working reset cost to 2.5 million gold...5 million is too much, especially if you play this game casually.
*Hmmm so it does not matter if you rolled +1 or +2 on your unique, they both catch up at 2, and if you masterwork crit once they are both at 3. So buying the one with +1 roll might actually be cheaper and save you some gold, because people who don't know this will pay premium for +2 roll on a unique.*
Hi, no, its due to a bug in the maxroll planer. The +1 Unqiues starts at 1,4. and at +45% (Rank11) they get 2,03 and upgrades to +2. In this moment the maxroll planer loses his information if the starting value was +1 or +2 becasue at start value from +2 is still only a 2 (2,9) and the planer dont know what to do and make any further calculation if it was starting +2. I got this information some weeks ago from Maxroll Member Slothmaster, who is an planer expert, after he investigate the probmem with the +1 i told him. If you want to see the actual behavior of an +1 passive unique, you want to choose one with no range like the Banished Lord's Talisman.
@SaranjivacSRB A +1 unique needs all three masterwork crits on the same affix (extremely unlikely) to get to +3; the +2 unique gets there with just one crit. There's a clear difference in quality between the items.
@@leostyle4613 I tried the maxroll planner and everything seems to work as intended for me. I don't think it's bugged any longer.
Wait so I want to confirm, if I have a GA core skills banished lords talisman, no masterwork crits will ever get it to +4? One crit and three will both get it +3, so the last two crits are a waste? Has anyone seen this in-game and not on the planner?
@@agularis_ Correct, according to the math and the planer, you will have with one crit 3,08 and with 3 crit 3,78, so no difference. No i didnt test it in game. But i should be 1,4 from the base + (50% from GA + 45% from normal Masterworking (9x) and 25% or 75% for 1 or 3 crits. Result in 120% or 170% so 1,4*2,2 = 3,08 and 1,4*2,7 = 3,78.
So which affix is "critted" on 4, 8 and 12 is still random?
Is there a secret or tip to hit a GA with crit twice? I swear I’ve used so many rolls and can never get that second hit at 8
As Ant-Man says in End Game: "Perfectly not confusing!" 🤣
so for skill group A,you have an item with +Skill and a random stat,if you get +25% on a random stats 2 times(which is 2 procs),the upgrade 8 and 10 will hit the +Skill stats?
You're looking at the wrong row. If your item has rolled the +25% bonuses (procs or whatever you wish to call them) on the wrong stat, you have to look at the topmost *0 procs* row. If at ranks 4, 8, or 12 you get lucky and receive +25% to your chosen skill, then you move on to the next row. I'm sorry but I don't know how to properly explain the whole thing in a RUclips comment.
Why is everyone complaining about how Wudijo poorly explained this? those people complaining basically don't know how masterworking works. I understood every bit of it.
I had an identical necklace get completely bricked from tempering 😢
Am i understanding the game loop correctly? Are pits the only way to get Obducite, Ingolith and Neathiron? Just feels weird IMO to be forced to push pits to masterwork your gear.
So there's no point in resetting masterworking on legendaries but on uniques you should be re rolling untill your hitting crit mastering in a row?
As always thabk you. Have you noticed that the tool tip for Fire bolt and Frost bolt enchantment do not grow stronger with additional ranks? Is the tool tip bugged or do they no longer provide more potency as enchantments with additional ranks?
Good to hear ava is doing well...now i know why his online on the same character
conclusion: skill gets 1 rankup per 30% increase regardless of its initial value. master work gives 5%per lv, 20% extra on crit(total 25%). So if u crit 3times on skills then 20*3 + 5*12=120% (4 ranks up)
can you pls the sheet instead of the png?
so if it "crits" firsttime other stat and not a skill i need than i roll another item? Or do i can reset this item and start from scratch?
So what we are saying is that there is a cap on upgrades on legendries regardless of what the base values are?
i have a +4 frozen orb gloves, and i dont understand this table lmao.
i masterworked it to 4 and i didnt hit it, should i continue or reset the item?
How does this work for non +skill / passive slots?
Diablo 3 allowed me to compase the base values of upgraded items against a new item. So I know when I'm getting a better item. How do you do that in D4? Right now, I'm using a spreadsheet to store base values so I can compare.
After pausing and watching the video for 40 mins, I finally understand 80% of it. I admire Wudi’s skill as a player but I gotta say it’s sometimes difficult to get his explanation the first time watching.
I think always rounding down for unique is too punishing. Could it be Blizzard’s mistake though..? I wouldn’t be surprised if they accidentally used floor instead of round for Masterworking calculation. It’s blizzard after all.
I understood it no issue with one watch. And I struggle very hard with understanding people with accents. So maybe it's not a problem with wudi and maybe you just have a problem with your comprehension skills?
@@SuperZakaru that could be the case. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
whatever the case with the uniques - they need to fix it. It's just bad design
Something is off, my winterglass wich has +2 conjuration. 1 crit and fully upgraded only has +3 conjuration. It should have +4 according to this?
+25% for crit and +45% for generic increase (9 x 5%) = +70%.
2 * 1.7 = 3.4, rounded down to 3.
For Bash Barb- some guides/streamers say make a rogue to roll Crit Dmg on weapons instead of Dmg to Close. But this needs high Crit Chance on glove, rings, ammy... What is the exact Crit Chance number where I should switch from Dmg to Close (make rogue) and roll Crit Dmg?
My brother says don't do that, he says DMG to Close to better than Crit dmg. How do I know? Explain this in depth plz.
I'm at 43 or so base crit on my bash and I'm still not critting as much as I'd like. It's still completely bare of MW as it's an alt to my rogue. With good luck on MW I'd guess I'm going to be sitting around 60/70 base, with the three pieces you mentioned having crit chance.
Overall I would say that rolling crit at the very top end might have an edge but it is a much more difficult setup. Rolling AS+ crit on 3 jewelry is a challenge.
No idea. Everyone suggest different stuff. I recently got rid of all my close damage and bumped my crit damage to 1500 with 45 crit chance. I rolled crit damage on every weapon with bash cleave. I’ve been able to push higher in the pit and nms and I still haven’t hit a wall. I think I’m at 50 something on the pits now. I have heard a 3 to 1 for crit damage and vulnerable is optimal but I’m at like 7 to 1
So lets say I want lvl up my skeletal mastery on legs up. How to guarantee ?
I have a 10/12 with 2 proc +3 to fire bolt flameweavers. Your chart says it should be +6 but it's still only +5.
well done mate
Thanks dude. Great to have the math.
Easy: if it doesn’t “crit blue” on the first affix that you want… just reset it. It’s not worth the mats to continue.
I'm torn with my Doombringer. Hit max health at level 4 and 8, but hit damage at level 12 (thorn build). Can't decide if it's worth resetting it and risking not getting those rolls the next time.
Its still not clear to me if the percentage needed to gain a rank needs to be exactly on the skill or this percentage can be spread out to all other affixes. Like, if i have a total of 30% on all other affixes, my next non-ctit would increase my +skill or not?
Could someone just clarify that?
Verrrrrry helpful information!
Item with 0 upgrade: U need 7/12 Masterwork to get +1 more skill (cap)
Item with 1 upgrade: U need 9/12 to get +2 more skill
Item with 2 upgrades: U need 10/12 to get +3 more skill
Item with 3 upgrades: Max +4 skill
Question: What if I don't proc a +skill, so it goes up by one at rank 7, what if then it does proc it at rank 8? which row of the table will be followed then? I hope what I'm asking is clear.
I just had this scenario happen to me on a tempered Imposing Presence. I didn't pay close enough attention, but I think when it did crit on rank 8, it didn't increase in rank.
I just masterworked it to rank 9, and it DID increase in rank.
This means that if you don't crit on rank 4, it will go up one level on rank 7. Then if you crit on rank 8, it won't go up a level. But then on rank 9 it WILL go up a level.
I have a question about Uniques. I have a Winterglass with GA Conjuration Mastery, so it starts at 3. i upgraded it to 11/12 and hit 1 proc on it, so by the calculation, it should have a 70% increase (45% from normal upgrades, 25% from proc, so 3x1.7=5.1). But at 11/12 it is still only at +4 to Conjuration Mastery, is my calculation wrong or is there another rule for GA skills on uniques?
The base value which you multiply with 1.7 is 2 and not 3. GA adds a 50% additive increase (so +1 rank) at the end, but doesn’t impact the base value in MW calculations.
Simple! Any gear w/ swollen sphincters have 2,000% increased chance to scuff tempering & masterwork increases go to the lowest value affix.
So, according to the chart. A +2 blood surge gloves should crit at 4/12 but it crits on intelligence instead. Either the chart isn't right or the explanation of the chart isn't good.
Wait so I want to confirm, if I have a GA core skills banished lords talisman, no masterwork crits will ever get it to +4? One crit and three will both get it +3, so the last two crits are a waste? Has anyone seen this in-game and not on the planner?
Really helpful. Thanks so much.
Wait, I have a GA frozen orb glove and it's 11/12 with 2 crits on it but it's still +7 do I need the last crit aswell to get to 8?
Yes you do. I have +7 at 12 with two
@@mabus1232 damn thats probably not gonna happen
I can't be the only one that thinks it's adorable when he says Malue, instead of value. Wudi is just an og with no flaws. God i love him
No flaws? What about the time he got perma banned on d3 for botting and then tried to act like it didn't happen and got mad at people when they called him out?
Thanks for this! Been struggling with the winterglass amu, i wasted so much mats for this one 😒
i think it will not work with WinterGlass, it's an unique and it seems bugged
@@f.donnet8165 its not bugged, uniques works diffrently from legendaries. He just explained it 😉
Ok so just upgraded winterglass with GA +3 lvl conjure mastery. It got 25% on mastery 3 times. Got +4 at 5 and +5 skill at 12 with the 25% hit 3. Don’t know why but seems that your sheet doesn’t add up and I’m not as OP as I should be.
Well not that surprised from the start of the game most uniques fill lacking or weak , now especially they need to buff them make them really unique . And it wont hurt any one to give them tempering .
How did know one realise this?
It’s basically the original system spread out over 12 ranks + RNG for 3x big procs
This seems to have changed in S5, my masterworked uniques seem to round up now.
Hi wudi i have an Uber unique doombringer vht when i master worked it i got 25% to damage, life on hit and one on max health. If i remaster work it can i possibly get 3 25% rolls on max health? And what is masterwork critting?😊
Critting is the big upgrade every 4 levels.
thank you for this !!
What happens if you reroll a critically masterworked mod at the occulist? Is it still gonna keep the crit roll?
yes
@@AdskyDimon that's nice to know, thanks
So simply, it is only useful to update a item to 12, if it crits on 4 and 8.
In all other cases, you stop updating on your second crit, and farm better a other item for the updating.
Fractured Winterglass. Start: +2 to Conjuration Mastery.
Masterwork: 2 (yellow color) success. Result (12/12): +3 to Conjuration Mastery. Why?
Think we’re getting scr*wed. My +3 winterglass ended up at +5 with 3 times 25% hit… If it went up to 6 or 7 would be insane.
@@thomasdelfstra Seems like math from @wudijo not working for Winterglass...
I got crit on Rapid Fire rank on Scoundrels Kiss, it still +2, should be 3 right?
@wudijo
I have a couple questions
I am using ur site maxroll for quite a long time and I am very happy with it using it a lot for D2 but for D4 i can't find a Eternal realm endgame tierlist wich i really would like too have
And...there is a PVP section for D4 with a text there will be PVP guides before season 1 stay tuned...
could you guys pls make a PVP and endgame Eternal realm tierlist ?
Would be much appreciated
This confuses me because I had multiple items crit at level 4 on +2 and it never went to +3
The maxroll planner is wrong. When you upgrade winterglas from 1 to 12 on a rank 1, and you crit once, the planner says it will go to 3 but it does not.
it actually became 2. should be fixed asap because people will believe the planner and waste materials.
I hate the makers of this game, they do everything in their power to make you weaker or make it hard for you to roll anything on your gear. getting that to hit 3 times is gonna be very hard and you will waste billions. I honestly hate this system so much because there are so many things on gear and its so hard to level up what you actually want. not to mention bricking gear when you temper. I might have to skip next season because this makes me extremely mad. Its like you are grinding your life away for nothing. I probably wont have my build the way I actually want it by the end of the season.
Very helpful thank you
i figured it was something like this when i didnt get the expected values on my items. kinda dumb. would prefer if it just gave +1 per crit and every 4th, simple and no nonsense
So Uniques are even more useless than i thought, great video !
Hey, let's turn a crappy game that wasn't ready for release into a game no one can really understand how gear works anymore!
Considering how this game's community acts all high and mighty and superior to everyone, I am amused and shocked at how stupid these people really are.
TLDR:
Literally 2nd grade math, introductory level of multiplication.
You have +2 Ranks and hit +25% increase at level 4 masterworking to said Ranks increase.
3 levels of 5% each = 5% + 5% + 5% = 15%
+25% from level 4 = 15% + 25% = 40%
Now you multiply the +2 Ranks with 40% = 2 x 1.4 = 2.8
If the decimal result is .5 or higher, it will round up. In this case to 3.0
If the decimal result is below .5, it will round down. In this case to 2.0
-> meaning, no change displayed.
Yup, went waaay over my head.
What do you mean by crit?
On 4, 8 and 12 mw there's one attribute that crits and gets this special upgrade he talks in the video
It's a bad choice of word, because 'crit' usually means something else when discussing D4 builds.
@@thoso1973when your in town and the whole video is on master working what else could crit mean? There’s no official term for it in game so people have been using proc/crit/boost for it pretty interchangeably
How about maybe tier like it is in most other games? Or upgraded attribute, stat etx