We have heard him , he says the same thing over and over again , he is predictable , repetitive and very one sided in his observations and uses broad negative generalizations Example : JM tells us about those of the black community that claim that “ALL inequalities are ALWAYS due to racism “ I live among black people and have NEVER heard that extreme view ! And even if Kendi and Dyson have those views that doesn’t represent black people any more than the gay agenda these individuals push. So JM exaggerates for effect , talks down to blacks in general and misrepresents their views and presents them in a way that is favourable to those in the wider culture that would like to totally dismiss the effects of racism.
@@jameslevitt3000Thank you for saying this. JM lost his credibility with me from the first video I watched of him comparing police violence against black people vs white people. His claims were that “The exact same thing happened” to the white victims, thus disproving a bias in the police force. I took the time to find the events he was referencing and they were absolutely not the same at all. Yet people ate it up because no one seems to fact check those who they want to believe.
John McWhorter's complete honesty with himself and others is so completely wonderful and refreshing. It is the only kind of attitude that can bring about real change. Awesome interview, thank you Coleman Hughes.
Thank you Mr. McWhorter for reassuring me that I’m not crazy. I am a white male who grew up in the Philly suburbs in the 70’s and I can remember many of the huge changes in my corner of the world in terms of racism and the opportunity for blacks to improve their lot in life. I’d say somewhere around 1980 it began to change for the better and has continued to improve ; now a black kid can be anything a white kid can be provided he works hard, educates himself, and takes advantage of all the programs available to him. Sure racism is still out there but a large majority of whites respect the blacks who have truly improved their lot. I know I had to overcome bullying, peer pressure, and so much negativity to get where I am. Nobody ever said it was easy!
I am so impressed by John’s command of the language, as well as his intelligence. His argument is so elegantly phrased. A quick sidenote: it really is as if some people don’t want to be helped. Like Colman said in the beginning: they magnify everything negative that has ever happened, and is out of their control, and don’t pay much attention to the very important things they are able to control; most notably, sound family structure
Like John and Coleman said, anyone can prefer victim good. I am white and when I was younger I would magnify everything negative. I was miserable and now that I am older I realize I didn't have to think that way.
@@dennisschneider4659 I was speaking with an 86-year-old black man, who has everything that you and I have meaning that we can do whatever we want to do, and soak in our kids. Well, he magnifies all the negative things in life, so it’s not something that is unique to young people, or to Black people only but it is very prevalent in their community unfortunately.
I never realized that my uncle was "black" until someone called him that 'n' word. Thank you John McWhorter, I read your articles years ago and cried. Thank you. He, my uncle, was "successful" and lived a "normal" life, I guess, whatever that means.
A wider question is who is fomenting victimhood and the attendant societal discord, and to what end? This 'mindset' is being deliberately stoked and perpetuated. Why?
@@bradspitt3896 Agree; however, there *are* power-seekers that are metaphorically “fluorinating” the water we swim in with this pathological mindset. They aren’t on auto-pilot like the masses are - they know what they’re doing and why.
@@jameshunt67 I do think those exist, but we don't have to resort reading people's minds, we need only call out their implicit metaphysical beliefs. They're nominalists, stand point epistemologists, and utilitarians. All of those things are bunk. Those are what drive them. And the ones that refuse to engage in discussion and resort to name calling are scapegoating and predetermining guilt driven from pride. Systemic racism is probably the biggest conspiracy theory out there because the institutions have accepted it.
I believe that conversations like this are the right way to go. Even the most well-meaning people from outside of a particular group I'm going to have trouble articulating their excesses without appearing to be hateful towards that group. Every group has excesses and in this case those of us who only wish black people well, simply aren't in as good a position to point out how harmful it is to seek offense and to dwell on the negative.
Victimhood provides drama, which can significantly increase our sense of significance. It’s a negative way to get the need met, but it still works. Maybe anything that can dramatically fill our need for significance , can also be a bit addictive.
@@jausti2 they act like black folks dealong with rcaism or saying there are sympotms of it from the part is trying to somehow play a victim thats nonsnese
@@hbsupreme1499 Bingo. King’s approach to racism was to truth, reconciliation and remediation from slavery to lack of civil rights. All this while singing we shall overcome. Selling a narrative that undermines black Americans to ppl who have little insight and interaction with blk Americans is the OG race hustle
Being a permanent victim allows a person to eliminate all responsibility for ones self. Wouldn’t it be nice if everyone got to go through life never having to self reflect on the choices we make and the outcomes we get for those choices? Reality always has way of smacking us right in the face. Thank you both for discussing the reality of victim hood.
I know! I mean the poor ppl who watch Tucker Carlson and cry all day on right wing media sites are disgusting. Dude we have ppl pretending to be victims of stolen elections and vaccine conspiracies! Look at the guy that went on the killing spree in Denver! Eternal victim. Ppl invaded our capital on 1/6 with the crazy idea that they are victims! As a blk American my parents informed me of what actual injustice looked like and passed along the culture of resilience that they were taught. They are blown away by the 24/7 imaginary grievance culture that exists today
There are a few differences. One being that the US government had detailed contracts with indigenous people that they did breach and continue to do so, which perpetuates the grievances. Whereas the affirmative action contract has been enforced and expanded on to the point it is now excluding other POC, like asians now seem to be outside of the protection of affirmative action because they applied too much effort resulting in too much success...
Attaining something that you have worked long and hard for can be very disappointing. You come to realize that the journey itself was a great part of the joy. Not the first part of it perhaps but the last few miles definitely. And so you vainly attempt to continue the journey rather than celebrating the prize that you have attained.
Really interesting conversation. As a white woman, also illuminating. Not just to hear the black man's perspective, but also, because I can relate to the pitfalls of an attitude of victimization. This is all too human, but for different reasons and in varied contexts. Thank you for your insights and humor, Mr. McWhorter. You are a pleasure to listen to, and I look forward to reading your books.
@@markaurelius61 In some cases, that's very true, unfortunately. But then, such a woman wouldn't be a feminist. IMO, she would be hijacking a label to hide behind.
@@etch-a-sketch I don't think that way. Feminism is sexism. It's in the name. The more we take an observant look at the sexes, rather than an ideological look which assumes that men oppress women in some way, the more clearly we will be able to sort out the complex interactions between us, and fix the terrible state of relations between the sexes that prevails today.
@@markaurelius61 What way is "that way"? I don't subscribe to ideologies, and also, I don't use the label, "feminist" for myself. I believe in equality and respect for both sexes. Also, context is important. I don't like painting all those calling themselves feminists, with the same broad brush. And the meaning changes with the passing of time. It all depends on how you define feminism.
@@etch-a-sketch All good points. That way means rescuing the term feminist, which is what I took "she would be hijacking a label". In other words, it has a legitimate use. Yes, there are quite a number of different meanings to the term feminist, but what matters is the ones with the most influence, all the gender studies professors, the journalists and media types who have been molded by that sort of thinking, and the teachers and lawmakers and so on.
True... My background is Irish though I was born here.. I tried regularly to negotiate that into some kind of rebel identity after "The Troubles" in the 70's though I was 2 generations removed. It was incredibly handy for someone at that time of life looking for any kind of identity.
The main issue with this is the difference between accepting that the category/abstraction of racism exists (everyone affirms this, somewhere out there racism exists), and seeing the abstraction materialize. When there's a disproportionality you can't just assume that's racism, racism is a motivation, it's a claim about consciousness, which means its mind reading and unfalsifiable. This is the same reason Karl Popper dismissed Marxism, because it's unfalsifiable that it's the proletariats programming keeping them from revolting. In other words, the left, critical race theorists, etc, predetermine guilt based on bad metaphysics and epistemology.
Like sexism there are different forms of racism …. Overt and covert …. subtle and extreme. You say racism is a form of consciousness…. When in fact it is a form of ignorance and a lack of consciousness. The statement “ disproportionality cannot assume racism “ is true , but equally,disproportionality doesn’t disprove racism either…, so is a useless statement I find ,people like you that know factually racism has existed in America to create disproportionate lifestyles among races , now use CRT extremists to dismiss all forms of racism and disproportionality to say the lifestyle , education, and attitudes of the descendants slavery in America has not been effected by this history .
@@jameslevitt3000 "Doesn't disprove racism either.' That's my point. We predetermine innocence, not guilt. "Form of ignorance, lack of consciousness." Says you, someone may disagree, the point is, it's an intentional act. You can't be unintentionally racist. You can't blame someone's programming while treating them like a criminal or animal who needs fixing.
Brad's Pitt if you judge a person based on race , that is a form of ignorance… if you can’t understand this you have proved my point and are unaware of reality
@@jameslevitt3000 You wouldn't know if they're judging someone on their race or culture, that's a form of predetermined guilt. You're dealing in abstractions, not reality.
"For 'us' only?" He forgets a few other "groups" that follow such "curated personas," too. The question is: Is the "curated persona" in question HELPFUL for the individual at all? Is it pathological? Or perhaps it engenders disempowerment?
no one is ignoring progress but what you fail to realize is that the job is not done; is there less personal racism than ever before? of course no one denies that,, is there still systemic wrongs that haven't been made right? yes.
John McWhorter has some beautiful passages in his books. He has a bit about a white dude soloing at karaoke with, "Old Man River," that's one of the funniest things I've read.
The anti-mental-health pushing is extremely important. People need to know these basics of mental health and be able to identify when people recommend the opposite.
I think we are a country founded on Christian values even though we're secular, and that means claims of harm get immediate personal social and professional compensation. So there is an incentive to do it.
Speaking of the 50s; the time period was more complex than many people give it credit for. In some areas black and white kids were playing like it was nothing. I have some old train-enthusiast videos from the 50s showing blacks and whites hanging out about their hobby, all of them doing pretty well in life. But being openly racist was also tolerated to a degree that we would find shocking today.
I've seen a lot of this recently. Privileged black person writes long article about their 'lived experience' of our awful racist society, how they were called names and they didn't get a call back when they went for a job. It's racism they say. With no inkling whatever that a. Everyone comes across bullies and assholes in their life b. Everyone gets overlooked for jobs sometimes Have they never considered that perhaps they just came across as whiny, entitled and not too bright so that's why they didn't get the job? That there was just a better candidate? That the recruiter was just not very efficient about getting back to people? Why do they pay so much attention to the mean person they came across not the hundreds of others they interacted with that day who were perfectly nice? To the bully and not to the person who stuck up for them against the bully? Do they possess no resilience? Do they think they don't have prejudices if their own? Do they prefer their 'own' people? Only date black people? Do they see white people as inferior, evil, privileged etc rather than as individuals?! Do they think Nigerian or Japanese culture lacks sufficient diversity and 'representation'? I'm not really sure why bullying or prejudice based on race is somehow worse than any other kind. If a ginger gets beaten up by some nasty bullies for being ginger do you think they're lying in hospital feeling better because they're only ginger and not black and their assailants will only get done for assault rather than racially aggravated assault? Take it on the chin ginger! You're privileged don't ya know!!
Bruh want privlaged do black people have and yea being called racial slur is a from of racism. You would be talkong your head of about that. A society built of racism you think 400 hundred years of that cam be foxed on 60 you sound dumb
Victimhood is essentially being an underdog, and everyone loves an underdog. I'm irish and we love viewing ourselves in that way in regards to British colonisation. It is a huge part of our national identity. In recent years I have it go and I feel a lot better.
I think the main reason why people like to pretend that things haven't changed since 1960 is that black people still disproportionately occupy the lowest socio-economic rungs of our society. This is a salient fact of race in 21st century America, just as it was throught 20th century America and before, and people are right to be upset about it. The problem is that, unlike in the past, current racism is not a significant impediment to the socio-economic uplift of black people. So modern-day "anti-racists" completely miss the mark.
In order to actually solve a problem, you must both accurately describe the problem and accurately determine the drivers causing the problem. The anti-racist lens presupposes problem is racism and the cause of everything is racism so we predictably get non-results. The politicians and activists who live off the issue are thus secured more money and power to implement new impotent policies that don't actually address the issues or their drivers.
@@garybicknell2135 there are those who gin power by acting like racsim doesnt exist and economics is connected to the effects of racism especially in urban America and how that affects people's upbringing
@@hbsupreme1499 Urban America, you mean the places run almost exclusively by Democrats amplifying the message of black victimhood instead of empowerment and achievement? Whose policies are almost entirely detrimental to the people they claim to champion? Sorry, you gotta come up with some actual examples of real racism that people ignore for power, not this ephemeral "systematic racism" conveniently pulled from the air to explain away any differences regardless of whether it's applicable or not.
Playing the eternal victim is a way to get power over others. It’s also a way to avoid taking responsibility for one’s own life and blame others for one’s own self- created problems. It’s like psychoanalysis where the “patient” is encouraged to talk about the trauma of childhood instead of directing attention to his present circumstances. It’s neurotic but it also has its benefits, one never really has to grow up and assume responsibility for one’s own life.
Most of your comment is accurate. Your analogy to psychotherapy & talking about childhood trauma is NOT. Fact is, without "unearthing" childhood trauma and seeing HOW ITS SHAPED YOU--your reactions, triggers, styles of coping & belief systems--and how all that IMPACTS your current life. The change today is only possible for an individual by coming to terms with their past, seeing how it shaped CURRENT attitutes & patterns behavior in order to CHANGE them.
The curated persona is seductive. It draws attention. In a bizarre way, it is like being the popular kid. It is like being homecoming king or queen. People actually find joy in their victimhood. The more they are seen as victims the more they are winning. It is hard to change people if they believe they are winning.
Jews have seem to do fine with victimhood. They don’t appear to be suffering but if you asked any Jew as to the state of Judaism around the world they would tell you it’s in grave danger as they have been for millennia. So why do black people have to get over it?
@@peatyxxjxxx1494 You're missing a key point: Even of those Jews who think that the Jewish faith, culture, and people are right now on the brink of destruction (and it's far from all, or even most) if you ask if they personally are being oppressed, they would say no. The same cannot be said for blacks people in America. Even Barack Obama buys into the nonsense that one of his kids could easily end up like Trayvon Martin.
Who are you actually talking about … can you name them or are you creating this person in your mind …. The people that focus most and promote the idea of black victimhood are these fellows
I know quite a lot about my grandfather's life because he left a lot behind to read. But I dont really know him, what his life was really about as he died when I was about 7 yo. So how can some say that 300 years of past from your family affects you now? We grow up in the society we are born into and we make the most of that experience.
That Battle is Spiritual between Good and Evil but analytical intellectual dissection of the topic can be cathartic. Interacting with other cultures in other countries quickly reveals the interpretation of a particular demographic very quickly but almost as quickly the recognition of cognitive nimbleness is recognized. Ones 100 plus year old relatives always had a mixed social circle. 70 plus year old relatives always attended mixed schools. Purchased property before any so called civil rights achievements, next to or around and in a mixed communities. Upon passing funerals always represented what life truly reflected but those who self segregated did not reflect the wider world. Those amazed by today’s world on a racial level (in the positive direction) are so alien but at the same time familiar. One listened and observed for years without commenting to individuals misunderstanding of how the functional world worked and noted some questionable subjective beliefs which one had to address immediately.
We did not have any black leaders to take us beyond the civil rights era. Our intransigence as a people is a collision between our tradition of fighting the power and survivors guilt.
Very good episode. I would also note that while playing the victim is very popular and attractive and most importantly dysfunctional and self destructive for some people, the justification of it is also just as dysfunctional and self destructive. Lastly, I would note that the white savior/white guilt role of white liberals is also dysfunctional and destructive.
3:40 - 3:50 We, Latinos are not there yet; not on the whole, anyway. But I fear this current wave of post-colonialism, anti-racism, and CRT may get us there. Edit: Western Women are a prime example of the human susceptibility to falling for victim complex ideologies.
If it is correct that a persona of victim hood lends a temporary power to the detriment of those who assume it, what is the utility for those in society that encourage and facilitate the adoption of the persona? The current built in incentives to find and wield an individuals victim hood just feels so wrong and harmful at a gut level.
I’d love to cast a vote for public office for men like Coleman and John McWhorter. Unfortunately, I think they are both far too good for our corrupt system.
I keep asking myself how/why black people can continually fall victim to this thinking. Either its a ruse, used to gain advantage - a tactic/strategy to gain power. Or, blacks actually do have low self esteem (?), and seek victim status as a way to empower themselves in their own mind. Maybe its both, which seems likely to be the case. Still I just don't get it. And until a large proportion of black people overcome this and speak actively against it, we as a country will continue to suffer the false racism narrative and the cultural decline will continue. Its a burden we will not be able to carry into any future which see this country united and strong.
Isn’t dwelling on the past in the mode of Freud? I believe a more successful and healthy approach would be Beck’s cognitive therapy that acknowledges the past and then moves on to deal with the present.
But folks dont even want to talk about the past and that is clear with the fact that tryi g to teach uncensored history is some sort of crime and is labeled crtical race theory. Futhermore this nation does not want to Rectify its past.
Good segment. I'm surprised by the skepticism about systemic racism though. If you both agree that it exists I wish you could have said that. The way you put it here, it sounded like you both don't think it's real or discount its seriousness. But John illustrated why it's real while seemingly arguing that it's not real. He argued that black crime is disproportionately higher, but poverty among black people is also disproportionately higher. But that's the whole point "the other side" is trying to make. Poverty is disproportionately higher among black people, due to historical racism, aka systemic racism, and poverty leads to crime and all sorts of other negative health consequences. That's kind of one of the main points that folks are making about systemic racism. In the end, ya'll have a lot of great things to say, but I'm afraid it gets undercut when such a core idea (systemic racism, which has tons of evidence behind it) can't be easily granted. I'm just hoping we can meet in the middle, and perhaps you might be able to offer a little more good faith acknowledgement of the left's points.
I do not understand why Black men equate the ability to date or marry a White woman a success towards race relations. Why don’t they compare there station in the US to what other men do in their communities?
This is something that liberals need to better understand. While racism had indeed been institutionalized in the US we still suffer from the history as it echos through our suture to our present. The battle for equality is noble, but the act of "protecting" a class of people further institutionalized racial separation despite it's chief function is to remove those barriers.
So you just admitted something a lot of conservatives would try to underplay and yet you think somehow trying to rectify the situation is trying to protect a class. A group of people that's never been protected unlike the ones who built this nation off of exploitation to protect themselves.
People talk about removing barriers when people still believe in open anti-black sentiments and hating other minority groups. 500 hundred years doesnt go away in 60 and there are past symptoms
@@hbsupreme1499 I agree that it's an age old scar. My point is that liberals, in trying to level the playing field, create protected groups and therefore classes of citizens based in demographic in a country where race has always been an issue. That's like offering an alcoholic a bourbon to cure his addiction. When we are able to just let people compete on their own without the race card being at the forefront then we will have achieve the ideal of "all men are created equal. "
Black people need to study Jews in America as a blueprint of how to get ahead. Black people that use the "because I'm Black" are trying to deflect from their misdeed they did. Life as a Black person was great in the 90s.
John McWhorter, Thomas Sowell, and Larry Elder should be looked up to, not violent thugs. Of any color. It's my belief that the most valuable commodity in society today is victimhood status. People of every description will drill down as much as necessary to find some group that they can claim to be part of that is oppressed, marginalized, persecuted, or what have you. Some do it for monetary reasons, some do it for attention, some to silence their critics or anyone who disagrees with them, some do it to excuse their personal failures. It's pathetic.
You dumb down the point. There IS a plurality of the Black community that views matters with the very victimology you describe. Yet, that analysis overlooks well-dixunented flaws in the democratic project that very much DO corrupt today's outcomes. It is fine and well to dismiss the influence of race as it relates to the prospects of a modern Blqck American as compared to an Italian,, German, Jewish, or any other migrant who came to the US through Ellis Island as a result of the fallout of WW2. On that score, the prospects of a so-called 'white' person and that of someone Black have significantly narrowed in disparity from each other. Yet, if one looks at the promise of democracy, as conceived by the Framers, they (and the nation) have reneged on the values professed for centuries. The only way to mitigate that is to declare so.e sort of "Mulligan" or to call the first 2.5 centuries of American democracy 'Beta testing', where the good intent is acknowledged and the failures are dismissed as academic or incidental to an experiment. You're not arguing that, and wisely so, because some DID get the benefits of the promise of democracy, which is an injustice to those who, like the Oregon Black Exclusion Laws show, were deprived of constitutional rights, long before Ellis Island had an intake. Hoons are in the wrong, but they are not WHY cars exist. There very much ARE people who operate the exact way you describe. That does not dismiss the issue.
They are the negation, the progressive identity is dependent on the status quo, is dependent on an enemy, they must be the perpetual misfit for their agenda to work. They would never admit to being the status quo because it means progressivism didn't work, because this is no utopia. Meanwhile you can't go to an institution and not be bombarded with their categories of progress, diversity, twisted empathy, etc.
@@hbsupreme1499 well for starters I can spell and put together a full sentence, which Is more then I can say for you. No wonder you are a Lebron fan, neither of you can read and write lol. Dummy
So people get power from becoming famous for writing about problems that are unfixable (in your mind)? Is that right? Fair enough. How much power are you getting from getting famous telling people you can't fix systemic problems (that you also say don't exist)? How many shows have you (McWhorter) been on promoting this book so far?
Also, when was systemic racism deemed "unfixable?" Is McWhorter's plan to just let inequality go because there's nothing to be done about it? Or does he believe it doesn't exist? OR are systems that are supposedly "by and for the people" designed to be driven by consensus of the citizens? Because if so, wouldn't building widespread understanding about systems that create inequality make it more likely and possible to fix those inequalities?
What the hell kind of example is OJ? I've heard MANY examples of how police are racist but I've never heard anyone suggest OJ was innocent and was just a victim of a racist legal system. It sounds like you might be surrounded by conspiracy theorists.
I'd also be interested to know if either of these two have ever been stopped and frisked or arrested for loitering, jaywalking, or any other petty crime. They clearly don't believe they're 'in any danger from being roughed up by police.' I wonder if that has anything to do with where they live and whether or not they grew up in poverty or were lucky enough to have generational wealth in their family that would keep them out of a ghetto. ...because as he says 'blacks are disproportionately poor' but I get the feeling neither of these two men have been unlucky in that regard.
'That victim complex started in 1966.' Weird. What was happening that would have started something like that? And are you saying the civil rights movement was based in 'a victim complex?'
John McWhorter analysis is very ivory towerish who weaponizes his linguistic prowess to promote a false dichotomy. You can hold the dominant white culture accountable and achieve with high standards as a black person.
Yes, and no: Something most black Americans have done way before these two eggheads appeared on the grand stage of public life, verbally. They're treating their experiences as though it is a Blueprint for every black person who has, and is now witnessing racism in their personal lives. Like most white commenters here, they only affirm the Label, or tag attached to ALL black people. VICTIMS!! The moderately educated kinds, the ones who throw around the N word ad libitum. There is another element at play here as well.It's called, Karma. Like the karma of say, Daniel Craig. Or, Samuel L. Jackson. Considering that these two fellows, famous and wealthy are decent people. What would you consider the karma of Donald Trump?? Or, Bashar al Assad? Putin, for that matter?? Also, let's examine racial Karma. As Actress, Shirley Maclaine pointed out in regards to the Jews in Nazi Germany. Then, consider the African American experience in this country: Check out the East St. Louis Massacre in 1917. And later, Tulsa Oklahoma. Go back even further even up to New York. These two guys are ignoring not only these incidents in the history of their own people. But actually, luxuriating in their own successes. IT DIDN'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY for either one of them. Think about it. Either one of them could have been a George Floyd. Being a man of Christian thinking. John Mcwhorter should understand this. But he actually and smugly ignores it.
People it's sad when self-named ACADEMICS/INTELLECTUALS need and could benefit from a good U.S. History lesson. Black people who are successful, and I use that term very lightly need to stop pushing the false "no racism in America" narrative.
@@edwinamendelssohn5129 Someday you will need to learn how to listen to the Black self-haters and decipher their language. Black people should in fact speak up more when we suffer racism because the "victim" pushback narrative is used as opposition to us when we call people and organizations out. The racists want us to shut up and stop complaining because their idea of racial harmony is us remaining silent.
@@halbleavy9900 to look at disparities through one lens is not scientific. What was true yesterday isn't true today. Some problems have escalated further from slavery and Jim Crow. Self hating is letting left wing politicians use you for votes and employ policies that in fact harm black people. Have you noticed how relaxed these men are? They're not under an thumb. Their minds are free.
@@edwinamendelssohn5129 Why is it that white people who vote republican every 2-years and they stay poor and poorly educated get a pass and everyone has a criticism for us and how we vote? Are their minds free? They vote against health care, tricked into doing it by the ones whose health care they pay for. Are their minds free? While we're here name a piece of legislation passed by republicans to help Americans who make under 60K per year. Name a piece of legislation by republicans to make Black American's lives better.
10:57 a major problem with the cops murdering white people I take huge issue with that. "Major problem" and "murder"? What did WaPo find, about 1,000 killed every year by police? How many of those can legitimately be called "murders"? More than 50? Meanwhile 59 cops were killed in the line of duty (does that include car accidents?) and another 15,000 were assaulted with dangerous weapons, including 2,700 who were shot at (although only about 180 of them got shot) Meanwhile 7,000 white people were murdered by non-cops. With 17,000 total homicides (not to mention 45,000 or so suicides), people getting killed by the cops is not the major problem, it's less than 2% of the total social problem.
@@hbsupreme1499 What about the people that play the race card simply because they don't like is said or done to them regardless if it is in fact based on race?
Or maybe the vast majority of educated and successful blk Americans find this rhetoric useless in comparison to other more influential blk academics. Both guys work for the Koch brothers and have no academic credentials in the subject of race. Their work doesn’t appeal to ppl like myself because it’s just not good. No details and full of fabricated and false narratives. Personally this is empathy rhetoric that doesn’t deserve a serious investment
@@jausti2 What both men are academics both are black men and you just said they have no credentials to write on race and yes blame Koch brothers like the right blames Sorrows. Idc if u want to live in lala land in your tribe but when you come out and speak try to speak like a regular human and show some critical thinking abilities. Most people know their is no benefit in having any discourse with far leftists cause you are so entrenched same as far right. So ✌️
@@grizzlyadamblack lol. Wait you just assumed I’m a leftist then claim I lack critical thinking? No I’m providing context and giving a brief opinion on their propaganda. I have the same skepticism when it comes to left wing politically funded media. A critical thinker would take the context provided and ask for evidence and data to back up their claims. Which is what I’m pointing out. This propaganda appeals to the non critical thinker with its use of straw men and vast generalizations. I would love it if ppl invested in data based academic work on this subject.
I love John McWhorter, but he frustrates me so much when he gives these people passes. John is basically saying that woke, white enablers and the black victim race pumps are actually sincere in their motives. He is saying that these black people actually believe that the police and white people are preoccupied everyday withholding them back and causing physical and emotional harm to them. I'm sorry John but that's a load of BS... 🤨
I disagree with you. The majority of the woke DO believe they are righteous and that systemic racism and conspiracies do oppress them. It is a belief system that grounds them and allows them to make sense of the world much like religion does for others. There rest of the woke simply use the movement for personal financial gain and fame.
You call it black victim hood when its stated that black peole are a hated class's I have yet to see anyone who claims black people play the vitim dry to debunk America's racist history.
You act like white folks and white racist are the same thing the latter is the former is not yall will do anything to try and make it sound like it in black people heads
I think one of the best contributions of John to this conversation is when he said that the George Floyd protests were a byproduct of the pandemic. So, in order to explain people's eagerness to tear down society and pretend no progress has ever been achieved, we must look deeper into how we have lived for the past 10-20yrs. Social media is a part of it but so is the war on terror, the 2008 crisis, climate change... we have been living under a great deal of uncertainty and fear. The future is gloomy. And the whole woke movement is a reaction to that: a bunch of lost souls who finally found a way to feel relevant. And in the case of people such as Ibram X Kendi or Robin DiAngelo, they are making a sh*t load of money, too. If you take this away from them, they're back to nothingness.
I found it curious that on the news this week Barbados declared itself an independent nation and officially cut all ties with the British Commonwealth. Prince Charles was there for the handover, where he dutifully berated himself and the Crown for the era of African slavery, and how hard it was for them all to suffer under British governance. That actual era aside, if I was a Barbados native, I would be thanking my lucky stars my great, great, great grandpa was snatched from the Namibian savanna. It meant I and thousands of other African decadents now live in a tropical paradise. And pretending like I was angry about my countries history would be entirely disingenuous.
Barbados is still a member of the British Commonwealth, though no longer with Queen Elizabeth as their Queen, as they are now a Republic, rather than a Monarchy. Dame Sandra Mason was elected as the first President of Barbados at the end of October.
@@bibaolaitan5189 Australia was built by convicts who were dragged there in chains to build the place. Many were never allowed to leave. But you don't hear any Aussies saying "boo hoo! You tore us away from Dublin and Manchester! The British ruined our lives!" They all are thankful history played out the way it did and they look back on their convict heritage with a cheeky pride.
Is this fool arguing that when I as a black man complain about my steak being ill prepared or a less competent white man being promoted over me, I am trying to surreptitiously empower myself through a victim strategy?
I would argue that consciousness developed much the same in every human mind and there are no irrational agents. It might seem so but while one group may be shaped to have an inflated sense of agency another may feel they are victims although they have the same skin color. I mean wouldn't it make more sense that all human beings are maladjusted due to trauma imposed on them prior to specific cognitive milestones. Such as puberty, the age of 18 and the full development of the brain. You can even see it in the regression people in old age. I think this is a fallacy a lot of people make. The mind informs the body. Aren't white Americans the same victims of in groups as black Americans. Just a different manifestation of trauma. To retcon racism as classism is bullshit. But what's the difference between a democrat that is a wolf in sheep's clothing and a republican with no shame or a bleeding heart liberal and a well intentioned republican. I think we consider the difference between good and bad actors as statistically insignificant and it's not and the people we think are good or bad aren't that simple. It's more likely that everything good about humanity is treading water. Outside of people of character and we're more likely to live up to our ideals in the presence of an abundance of resources.
@@libertyprime9307 Essentially some people are formed by trauma before they hit milestones of self awareness or intellect. Like interventions could of happened but didn't or too late. An analogy would be being born with a physical handicap. So to avoid moral absolutes let's say free will and determinism are both valid in different measure. So basically edmund kemper and adolf hitler could have been different people but instead they became products of society and leaned into being pieces of shit. The idea that modern psychology would have fixed them is naive. Just the same as socrates, plato, aristotle, alexander the great could have been different people. Essentially they were benefactors of generational knowledge and wealthy people that enabled them. Even someone like tesla before it was too late in his development he decided to break from society. So to say someone is irrational, you're not accounting for time. They might be a bad actor. It's not that reality is relative but consciousness has reacted to stimuli. Most people are maladjusted not by their own choosing and then are traumatized by the world. So it looks irrational but makes sense in the macro. They have warped logic and inverted morality. Sorry for being so long winded but. The trauma makes them develop defense mechanisms and those defense mechanisms compel them to protect the maladjusted self so they're incapable of change. So a narcissist feels superior to people but they don't realize they lack emotional tools and relationships that would enrich their lives. What's worse is their validated by society. So willy wonka that, some people are truly victims of circumstance because they lack the emotional machinery and external forces that would allow them to change themselves. So if you think people are completely responsible for themselves it' s probably that you're running into the limits of understanding scale. Like you're 1/7,000,000,000 of agents and I can say it but, I can't even really wrap my head around it.
@@libertyprime9307 So my argument seems nonsensical but then you realize muhammad ali wandered into angelo dunee's gym or mike tyson got plugged into cus d'amato's gym. Agency is the result of an environment that enables you to be your best self and victimhood is the result of an environment that undercuts you. The only way be your best self in an environment that is hostile is to deny yourself and be what society wants you to be. I would argue that's not healthy but maladjusted and the success you achieve is superficial.
@@libertyprime9307 Just to beat you over the head. I'd say society is maladjusted and the porn industry is de facto rape of young women and war is de facto violence for profit. We've just all agreed to it and pretend we're civilized. So my point would be outcomes are nonsensical and a righteous person's perception of themselves is probably more accurate than ours.
![Woke Racism with John McWhorter [S2 Ep.40]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gT9qMq0faCQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![Woke Racism with John McWhorter [S2 Ep.40]](/img/tr.png)
![My Open Letter to Ibram X. Kendi - [Bonus Episode]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kMAYJUMpStY/mqdefault.jpg)
John McWhorter needs to be listened to. In my opinion he's one of the most important American intellectual voices of an increasingly troubled era.
Nah, Bill. YOU, IS WRONG TOO. Totally!!!
We have heard him , he says the same thing over and over again , he is predictable , repetitive and very one sided in his observations and uses broad negative generalizations
Example : JM tells us about those of the black community that claim that “ALL inequalities are ALWAYS due to racism “
I live among black people and have NEVER heard that extreme view !
And even if Kendi and Dyson have those views that doesn’t represent black people any more than the gay agenda these individuals push.
So JM exaggerates for effect , talks down to blacks in general and misrepresents their views and presents them in a way that is favourable to those in the wider culture that would like to totally dismiss the effects of racism.
@@jameslevitt3000Thank you for saying this. JM lost his credibility with me from the first video I watched of him comparing police violence against black people vs white people. His claims were that “The exact same thing happened” to the white victims, thus disproving a bias in the police force. I took the time to find the events he was referencing and they were absolutely not the same at all. Yet people ate it up because no one seems to fact check those who they want to believe.
John McWhorter's complete honesty with himself and others is so completely wonderful and refreshing. It is the only kind of attitude that can bring about real change. Awesome interview, thank you Coleman Hughes.
Lolz
Thank you Mr. McWhorter for reassuring me that I’m not crazy. I am a white male who grew up in the Philly suburbs in the 70’s and I can remember many of the huge changes in my corner of the world in terms of racism and the opportunity for blacks to improve their lot in life. I’d say somewhere around 1980 it began to change for the better and has continued to improve ; now a black kid can be anything a white kid can be provided he works hard, educates himself, and takes advantage of all the programs available to him. Sure racism is still out there but a large majority of whites respect the blacks who have truly improved their lot. I know I had to overcome bullying, peer pressure, and so much negativity to get where I am. Nobody ever said it was easy!
John McWorther is a literal hero!
Is this a literal use of the word literal or a play on the word because he is an author?
@@kkampy4052 Now that you have made me realize my spelling mistake I'm gonna go ahead and say it was a play on words all along
He’s a literal literary hero 😂
This is really hitting the nail on the head!
Brilliant! Absolute perfection.
I would pay good money to watch John McWorther debate Michael Eric Dyson
I am so impressed by John’s command of the language, as well as his intelligence. His argument is so elegantly phrased. A quick sidenote: it really is as if some people don’t want to be helped. Like Colman said in the beginning: they magnify everything negative that has ever happened, and is out of their control, and don’t pay much attention to the very important things they are able to control; most notably, sound family structure
Like John and Coleman said, anyone can prefer victim good. I am white and when I was younger I would magnify everything negative. I was miserable and now that I am older I realize I didn't have to think that way.
I meant victimhood not victim good
@@dennisschneider4659 I was speaking with an 86-year-old black man, who has everything that you and I have meaning that we can do whatever we want to do, and soak in our kids. Well, he magnifies all the negative things in life, so it’s not something that is unique to young people, or to Black people only but it is very prevalent in their community unfortunately.
Amazing talk 👌
Just extraordinary. Gave me goosebumps also.
I never realized that my uncle was "black" until someone called him that 'n' word. Thank you John McWhorter, I read your articles years ago and cried. Thank you. He, my uncle, was "successful" and lived a "normal" life, I guess, whatever that means.
A wider question is who is fomenting victimhood and the attendant societal discord, and to what end? This 'mindset' is being deliberately stoked and perpetuated. Why?
Presumably for political power
It doesn't have to be intentional, it's the zeitgeist, it's the water they swim in.
Follow the money
@@bradspitt3896 Agree; however, there *are* power-seekers that are metaphorically “fluorinating” the water we swim in with this pathological mindset. They aren’t on auto-pilot like the masses are - they know what they’re doing and why.
@@jameshunt67 I do think those exist, but we don't have to resort reading people's minds, we need only call out their implicit metaphysical beliefs. They're nominalists, stand point epistemologists, and utilitarians. All of those things are bunk. Those are what drive them. And the ones that refuse to engage in discussion and resort to name calling are scapegoating and predetermining guilt driven from pride. Systemic racism is probably the biggest conspiracy theory out there because the institutions have accepted it.
One of the major problems is that videos like this aren’t viewed by the masses. The tik tok videos however, get millions of views.
McWhorter always challenges my prior assumptions! I love it! Thank you Coleman for the great conversation!
Respect you guys so much for what you are doing!
If I could have teachers like John Mcwhorter, Bret Weinstein,Jordan Peterson and Jonathan Haidt Id probably look in to further education
You have them now.
THANK YOU FOR ARTICULATING AND POINTING TO REALITY AS I DIRECTLY EXPERIENCE IT.
I look forward to these 2 guys challenging each other and presenting 2 different perspectives on the issues.
Thank you for this.
If you can find or manufacture an external source, then you don't have to look inside.
I believe that conversations like this are the right way to go. Even the most well-meaning people from outside of a particular group I'm going to have trouble articulating their excesses without appearing to be hateful towards that group. Every group has excesses and in this case those of us who only wish black people well, simply aren't in as good a position to point out how harmful it is to seek offense and to dwell on the negative.
Brilliant conversation.
Thanks!
Victimhood provides drama, which can significantly increase our sense of significance. It’s a negative way to get the need met, but it still works. Maybe anything that can dramatically fill our need for significance , can also be a bit addictive.
You really think these guys are accurately describing the views of a vast number of blk Americans?
@@jausti2 they act like black folks dealong with rcaism or saying there are sympotms of it from the part is trying to somehow play a victim thats nonsnese
@@hbsupreme1499 Bingo. King’s approach to racism was to truth, reconciliation and remediation from slavery to lack of civil rights. All this while singing we shall overcome. Selling a narrative that undermines black Americans to ppl who have little insight and interaction with blk Americans is the OG race hustle
This is so good!!! So thankful for both of your voices.
Being a permanent victim allows a person to eliminate all responsibility for ones self. Wouldn’t it be nice if everyone got to go through life never having to self reflect on the choices we make and the outcomes we get for those choices? Reality always has way of smacking us right in the face. Thank you both for discussing the reality of victim hood.
I know! I mean the poor ppl who watch Tucker Carlson and cry all day on right wing media sites are disgusting. Dude we have ppl pretending to be victims of stolen elections and vaccine conspiracies! Look at the guy that went on the killing spree in Denver! Eternal victim. Ppl invaded our capital on 1/6 with the crazy idea that they are victims! As a blk American my parents informed me of what actual injustice looked like and passed along the culture of resilience that they were taught. They are blown away by the 24/7 imaginary grievance culture that exists today
I love you guys
Love your conversations guys. You bring sense and logic to this ongoing debate
It fits the Indigenous communities in the Americas as well.
Latinos, Muslims, transgender. Welcome to intersectionality.
Yeah, no. Those are just groups trying to achieve the equal footing on the scale of victimhood... LoL
There are a few differences.
One being that the US government had detailed contracts with indigenous people that they did breach and continue to do so,
which perpetuates the grievances.
Whereas the affirmative action contract has been enforced and expanded on to the point it is now excluding other POC, like asians now seem to be outside of the protection of affirmative action because they applied too much effort resulting in too much success...
The type of genocide and racism practiced in America is just as bad, if not worse than any other form of those horrible crimes against humanity.
@@thomasreaves588 Just as bad as the racism and/or genocide practiced by the Nazis and Soviets? Or the Pol Pot regime? Really?
Attaining something that you have worked long and hard for can be very disappointing. You come to realize that the journey itself was a great part of the joy. Not the first part of it perhaps but the last few miles definitely. And so you vainly attempt to continue the journey rather than celebrating the prize that you have attained.
Well stated. This is the problem with many political movements. They often eat themselves in the end.
Really interesting conversation. As a white woman, also illuminating. Not just to hear the black man's perspective, but also, because I can relate to the pitfalls of an attitude of victimization. This is all too human, but for different reasons and in varied contexts. Thank you for your insights and humor, Mr. McWhorter. You are a pleasure to listen to, and I look forward to reading your books.
Feminism is the white women's equivalent - perpetual victimhood weaponised to get away with bullying men.
@@markaurelius61 In some cases, that's very true, unfortunately. But then, such a woman wouldn't be a feminist. IMO, she would be hijacking a label to hide behind.
@@etch-a-sketch I don't think that way. Feminism is sexism. It's in the name. The more we take an observant look at the sexes, rather than an ideological look which assumes that men oppress women in some way, the more clearly we will be able to sort out the complex interactions between us, and fix the terrible state of relations between the sexes that prevails today.
@@markaurelius61 What way is "that way"? I don't subscribe to ideologies, and also, I don't use the label, "feminist" for myself. I believe in equality and respect for both sexes. Also, context is important. I don't like painting all those calling themselves feminists, with the same broad brush. And the meaning changes with the passing of time. It all depends on how you define feminism.
@@etch-a-sketch All good points. That way means rescuing the term feminist, which is what I took "she would be hijacking a label". In other words, it has a legitimate use.
Yes, there are quite a number of different meanings to the term feminist, but what matters is the ones with the most influence, all the gender studies professors, the journalists and media types who have been molded by that sort of thinking, and the teachers and lawmakers and so on.
John McWhorter is a samurai with words.
True... My background is Irish though I was born here.. I tried regularly to negotiate that into some kind of rebel identity after "The Troubles" in the 70's though I was 2 generations removed. It was incredibly handy for someone at that time of life looking for any kind of identity.
“Curated persona” is the most subtle of burns 👏
I mean how about curated narrative? Because that’s exactly what these guys just did
The main issue with this is the difference between accepting that the category/abstraction of racism exists (everyone affirms this, somewhere out there racism exists), and seeing the abstraction materialize.
When there's a disproportionality you can't just assume that's racism, racism is a motivation, it's a claim about consciousness, which means its mind reading and unfalsifiable. This is the same reason Karl Popper dismissed Marxism, because it's unfalsifiable that it's the proletariats programming keeping them from revolting. In other words, the left, critical race theorists, etc, predetermine guilt based on bad metaphysics and epistemology.
👏👏👏👏....
Like sexism there are different forms of racism …. Overt and covert …. subtle and extreme.
You say racism is a form of consciousness…. When in fact it is a form of ignorance and a lack of consciousness.
The statement “ disproportionality cannot assume racism “ is true , but equally,disproportionality doesn’t disprove racism either…, so is a useless statement
I find ,people like you that know factually racism has existed in America to create disproportionate lifestyles among races , now use CRT extremists to dismiss all forms of racism and disproportionality to say the lifestyle , education, and attitudes of the descendants slavery in America has not been effected by this history .
@@jameslevitt3000 "Doesn't disprove racism either.'
That's my point. We predetermine innocence, not guilt.
"Form of ignorance, lack of consciousness."
Says you, someone may disagree, the point is, it's an intentional act. You can't be unintentionally racist. You can't blame someone's programming while treating them like a criminal or animal who needs fixing.
Brad's Pitt if you judge a person based on race , that is a form of ignorance… if you can’t understand this you have proved my point and are unaware of reality
@@jameslevitt3000 You wouldn't know if they're judging someone on their race or culture, that's a form of predetermined guilt.
You're dealing in abstractions, not reality.
"For 'us' only?" He forgets a few other "groups" that follow such "curated personas," too. The question is: Is the "curated persona" in question HELPFUL for the individual at all? Is it pathological? Or perhaps it engenders disempowerment?
I doubt very much he “forgets” there are other curated personas. He just isn’t writing to them.
no one is ignoring progress but what you fail to realize is that the job is not done; is there less personal racism than ever before? of course no one denies that,, is there still systemic wrongs that haven't been made right? yes.
John McWhorter has some beautiful passages in his books. He has a bit about a white dude soloing at karaoke with, "Old Man River," that's one of the funniest things I've read.
I truly believe that it is up to these men and men like them to bring about the necessary changes that the fate of this nation depends upon.
The anti-mental-health pushing is extremely important. People need to know these basics of mental health and be able to identify when people recommend the opposite.
The media has prioritized staged pessimism for a long time. Is this the way we should be operating?
No
I think we are a country founded on Christian values even though we're secular, and that means claims of harm get immediate personal social and professional compensation. So there is an incentive to do it.
Speaking of the 50s; the time period was more complex than many people give it credit for. In some areas black and white kids were playing like it was nothing. I have some old train-enthusiast videos from the 50s showing blacks and whites hanging out about their hobby, all of them doing pretty well in life. But being openly racist was also tolerated to a degree that we would find shocking today.
That a minority also ravism in the north was de facto not in law.
I've seen a lot of this recently. Privileged black person writes long article about their 'lived experience' of our awful racist society, how they were called names and they didn't get a call back when they went for a job. It's racism they say. With no inkling whatever that
a. Everyone comes across bullies and assholes in their life
b. Everyone gets overlooked for jobs sometimes
Have they never considered that perhaps they just came across as whiny, entitled and not too bright so that's why they didn't get the job? That there was just a better candidate? That the recruiter was just not very efficient about getting back to people? Why do they pay so much attention to the mean person they came across not the hundreds of others they interacted with that day who were perfectly nice? To the bully and not to the person who stuck up for them against the bully? Do they possess no resilience? Do they think they don't have prejudices if their own? Do they prefer their 'own' people? Only date black people? Do they see white people as inferior, evil, privileged etc rather than as individuals?! Do they think Nigerian or Japanese culture lacks sufficient diversity and 'representation'? I'm not really sure why bullying or prejudice based on race is somehow worse than any other kind. If a ginger gets beaten up by some nasty bullies for being ginger do you think they're lying in hospital feeling better because they're only ginger and not black and their assailants will only get done for assault rather than racially aggravated assault? Take it on the chin ginger! You're privileged don't ya know!!
Bruh want privlaged do black people have and yea being called racial slur is a from of racism. You would be talkong your head of about that. A society built of racism you think 400 hundred years of that cam be foxed on 60 you sound dumb
Victimhood is essentially being an underdog, and everyone loves an underdog. I'm irish and we love viewing ourselves in that way in regards to British colonisation. It is a huge part of our national identity. In recent years I have it go and I feel a lot better.
John McWhorter is my hero
Your hero talks smack about Jordan Peterson, a man who has helped hundreds of thousands of people.
I think this might play a major role in what happened in Wisconsin. For some reason all discussion has gone silent.
I think the main reason why people like to pretend that things haven't changed since 1960 is that black people still disproportionately occupy the lowest socio-economic rungs of our society. This is a salient fact of race in 21st century America, just as it was throught 20th century America and before, and people are right to be upset about it.
The problem is that, unlike in the past, current racism is not a significant impediment to the socio-economic uplift of black people. So modern-day "anti-racists" completely miss the mark.
In order to actually solve a problem, you must both accurately describe the problem and accurately determine the drivers causing the problem. The anti-racist lens presupposes problem is racism and the cause of everything is racism so we predictably get non-results. The politicians and activists who live off the issue are thus secured more money and power to implement new impotent policies that don't actually address the issues or their drivers.
@@garybicknell2135 there are those who gin power by acting like racsim doesnt exist and economics is connected to the effects of racism especially in urban America and how that affects people's upbringing
@@hbsupreme1499 Urban America, you mean the places run almost exclusively by Democrats amplifying the message of black victimhood instead of empowerment and achievement? Whose policies are almost entirely detrimental to the people they claim to champion? Sorry, you gotta come up with some actual examples of real racism that people ignore for power, not this ephemeral "systematic racism" conveniently pulled from the air to explain away any differences regardless of whether it's applicable or not.
"Not bad is it" goat response lol
Playing the eternal victim is a way to get power over others. It’s also a way to avoid taking responsibility for one’s own life and blame others for one’s own self- created problems. It’s like psychoanalysis where the “patient” is encouraged to talk about the trauma of childhood instead of directing attention to his present circumstances. It’s neurotic but it also has its benefits, one never really has to grow up and assume responsibility for one’s own life.
Most of your comment is accurate. Your analogy to psychotherapy & talking about childhood trauma is NOT. Fact is, without "unearthing" childhood trauma and seeing HOW ITS SHAPED YOU--your reactions, triggers, styles of coping & belief systems--and how all that IMPACTS your current life. The change today is only possible for an individual by coming to terms with their past, seeing how it shaped CURRENT attitutes & patterns behavior in order to CHANGE them.
Still waiting on Coleman to explain underwear display on NY subway.
Is this a snippet from the the other episode?
The curated persona is seductive. It draws attention. In a bizarre way, it is like being the popular kid. It is like being homecoming king or queen. People actually find joy in their victimhood. The more they are seen as victims the more they are winning. It is hard to change people if they believe they are winning.
Jews have seem to do fine with victimhood. They don’t appear to be suffering but if you asked any Jew as to the state of Judaism around the world they would tell you it’s in grave danger as they have been for millennia. So why do black people have to get over it?
@@peatyxxjxxx1494 You're missing a key point: Even of those Jews who think that the Jewish faith, culture, and people are right now on the brink of destruction (and it's far from all, or even most) if you ask if they personally are being oppressed, they would say no. The same cannot be said for blacks people in America. Even Barack Obama buys into the nonsense that one of his kids could easily end up like Trayvon Martin.
Who are you actually talking about … can you name them or are you creating this person in your mind …. The people that focus most and promote the idea of black victimhood are these fellows
Myles Leggette blacks and Jews have a totally different history in America …
@@jameslevitt3000 exactly. Who are the blk ppl they are talking about? I don’t know any blk ppl who think this way
I know quite a lot about my grandfather's life because he left a lot behind to read. But I dont really know him, what his life was really about as he died when I was about 7 yo. So how can some say that 300 years of past from your family affects you now? We grow up in the society we are born into and we make the most of that experience.
Cuz its a domino the actions years ago had others that came after to cuase modern day effects
That Battle is Spiritual between Good and Evil but analytical intellectual dissection of the topic can be cathartic.
Interacting with other cultures in other countries quickly reveals the interpretation of a particular demographic very quickly but almost as quickly the recognition of cognitive nimbleness is recognized.
Ones 100 plus year old relatives always had a mixed social circle. 70 plus year old relatives always attended mixed schools.
Purchased property before any so called civil rights achievements, next to or around and in a mixed communities.
Upon passing funerals always represented what life truly reflected but those who self segregated did not reflect the wider world.
Those amazed by today’s world on a racial level (in the positive direction) are so alien but at the same time familiar.
One listened and observed for years without commenting to individuals misunderstanding of how the functional world worked and noted some questionable subjective beliefs which one had to address immediately.
We did not have any black leaders to take us beyond the civil rights era. Our intransigence as a people is a collision between our tradition of fighting the power and survivors guilt.
Very good episode. I would also note that while playing the victim is very popular and attractive and most importantly dysfunctional and self destructive for some people, the justification of it is also just as dysfunctional and self destructive. Lastly, I would note that the white savior/white guilt role of white liberals is also dysfunctional and destructive.
3:40 - 3:50
We, Latinos are not there yet; not on the whole, anyway. But I fear this current wave of post-colonialism, anti-racism, and CRT may get us there.
Edit: Western Women are a prime example of the human susceptibility to falling for victim complex ideologies.
If it is correct that a persona of victim hood lends a temporary power to the detriment of those who assume it, what is the utility for those in society that encourage and facilitate the adoption of the persona? The current built in incentives to find and wield an individuals victim hood just feels so wrong and harmful at a gut level.
I’d love to cast a vote for public office for men like Coleman and John McWhorter. Unfortunately, I think they are both far too good for our corrupt system.
I keep asking myself how/why black people can continually fall victim to this thinking. Either its a ruse, used to gain advantage - a tactic/strategy to gain power. Or, blacks actually do have low self esteem (?), and seek victim status as a way to empower themselves in their own mind. Maybe its both, which seems likely to be the case.
Still I just don't get it. And until a large proportion of black people overcome this and speak actively against it, we as a country will continue to suffer the false racism narrative and the cultural decline will continue.
Its a burden we will not be able to carry into any future which see this country united and strong.
Isn’t dwelling on the past in the mode of Freud? I believe a more successful and healthy approach would be Beck’s cognitive therapy that acknowledges the past and then moves on to deal with the present.
But folks dont even want to talk about the past and that is clear with the fact that tryi g to teach uncensored history is some sort of crime and is labeled crtical race theory. Futhermore this nation does not want to Rectify its past.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn wrote in the Gulag Archipelago, “ TO DO EVIL A HUMAN BEING MUST FIRST OF ALL BELIEVE THAT WHAT HE’S DOING IS GOOD FOR ALL “.
The victimized black man disrespects his ancestors and what they suffered
Good segment. I'm surprised by the skepticism about systemic racism though. If you both agree that it exists I wish you could have said that. The way you put it here, it sounded like you both don't think it's real or discount its seriousness. But John illustrated why it's real while seemingly arguing that it's not real. He argued that black crime is disproportionately higher, but poverty among black people is also disproportionately higher. But that's the whole point "the other side" is trying to make. Poverty is disproportionately higher among black people, due to historical racism, aka systemic racism, and poverty leads to crime and all sorts of other negative health consequences. That's kind of one of the main points that folks are making about systemic racism. In the end, ya'll have a lot of great things to say, but I'm afraid it gets undercut when such a core idea (systemic racism, which has tons of evidence behind it) can't be easily granted. I'm just hoping we can meet in the middle, and perhaps you might be able to offer a little more good faith acknowledgement of the left's points.
You guys are the curators !
These are the guys that speak almost exclusively on “ blacks think they are victims”
They speak ABOUT those who think they are victims.
I do not understand why Black men equate the ability to date or marry a White woman a success towards race relations. Why don’t they compare there station in the US to what other men do in their communities?
This is a false statement. Stop projecting your thoughts onto BM
This is something that liberals need to better understand. While racism had indeed been institutionalized in the US we still suffer from the history as it echos through our suture to our present. The battle for equality is noble, but the act of "protecting" a class of people further institutionalized racial separation despite it's chief function is to remove those barriers.
So you just admitted something a lot of conservatives would try to underplay and yet you think somehow trying to rectify the situation is trying to protect a class. A group of people that's never been protected unlike the ones who built this nation off of exploitation to protect themselves.
People talk about removing barriers when people still believe in open anti-black sentiments and hating other minority groups. 500 hundred years doesnt go away in 60 and there are past symptoms
@@hbsupreme1499 I agree that it's an age old scar. My point is that liberals, in trying to level the playing field, create protected groups and therefore classes of citizens based in demographic in a country where race has always been an issue. That's like offering an alcoholic a bourbon to cure his addiction. When we are able to just let people compete on their own without the race card being at the forefront then we will have achieve the ideal of "all men are created equal. "
I nearly wept when I saw that a black man wrote the definition.
Black people need to study Jews in America as a blueprint of how to get ahead. Black people that use the "because I'm Black" are trying to deflect from their misdeed they did. Life as a Black person was great in the 90s.
Why wouldn't I accept victimhood? The alternatives are hard and scary.
It works. 70 million ppl voted for Trump. The ultimate victim
1990 was 32 years ago
John McWhorter, Thomas Sowell, and Larry Elder should be looked up to, not violent thugs. Of any color.
It's my belief that the most valuable commodity in society today is victimhood status. People of every description will drill down as much as necessary to find some group that they can claim to be part of that is oppressed, marginalized, persecuted, or what have you. Some do it for monetary reasons, some do it for attention, some to silence their critics or anyone who disagrees with them, some do it to excuse their personal failures. It's pathetic.
why exactly did the climate of staged pessimism/eternal danger/victim complex begin in 1966?
Where would these two be if they weren't put down by their own!
Pit down by there own cuz they are selling out cuz yoi want balck people to submit to what makes white scoiety comfortable
That's tga punk from tha train 🚆
You dumb down the point. There IS a plurality of the Black community that views matters with the very victimology you describe. Yet, that analysis overlooks well-dixunented flaws in the democratic project that very much DO corrupt today's outcomes.
It is fine and well to dismiss the influence of race as it relates to the prospects of a modern Blqck American as compared to an Italian,, German, Jewish, or any other migrant who came to the US through Ellis Island as a result of the fallout of WW2.
On that score, the prospects of a so-called 'white' person and that of someone Black have significantly narrowed in disparity from each other.
Yet, if one looks at the promise of democracy, as conceived by the Framers, they (and the nation) have reneged on the values professed for centuries.
The only way to mitigate that is to declare so.e sort of "Mulligan" or to call the first 2.5 centuries of American democracy 'Beta testing', where the good intent is acknowledged and the failures are dismissed as academic or incidental to an experiment.
You're not arguing that, and wisely so, because some DID get the benefits of the promise of democracy, which is an injustice to those who, like the Oregon Black Exclusion Laws show, were deprived of constitutional rights, long before Ellis Island had an intake.
Hoons are in the wrong, but they are not WHY cars exist.
There very much ARE people who operate the exact way you describe. That does not dismiss the issue.
Just think, a gay man has no history of sitting around listening to their parents talking about how bad it was for gay men in the forties.
Black parents and grand parents have those experience and see how they wish to teach to there kids in order to avoid nonsense
You guys know why people are pretending there has not been progress. I know you know. You have to know
They are the negation, the progressive identity is dependent on the status quo, is dependent on an enemy, they must be the perpetual misfit for their agenda to work. They would never admit to being the status quo because it means progressivism didn't work, because this is no utopia. Meanwhile you can't go to an institution and not be bombarded with their categories of progress, diversity, twisted empathy, etc.
Social science is not JM’s specialty and it shows. Please stick to literature.
Happens to gay people, and feminists in its own way as well.
Lebron James is the king of fake victim hood
Yeti as a platform to actually fight for something what have you done with your life
@@hbsupreme1499 well for starters I can spell and put together a full sentence, which Is more then I can say for you. No wonder you are a Lebron fan, neither of you can read and write lol. Dummy
So people get power from becoming famous for writing about problems that are unfixable (in your mind)? Is that right? Fair enough. How much power are you getting from getting famous telling people you can't fix systemic problems (that you also say don't exist)? How many shows have you (McWhorter) been on promoting this book so far?
Also, when was systemic racism deemed "unfixable?" Is McWhorter's plan to just let inequality go because there's nothing to be done about it? Or does he believe it doesn't exist? OR are systems that are supposedly "by and for the people" designed to be driven by consensus of the citizens? Because if so, wouldn't building widespread understanding about systems that create inequality make it more likely and possible to fix those inequalities?
Who is saying there hasn't been progress? Straw man.
What the hell kind of example is OJ? I've heard MANY examples of how police are racist but I've never heard anyone suggest OJ was innocent and was just a victim of a racist legal system. It sounds like you might be surrounded by conspiracy theorists.
I'd also be interested to know if either of these two have ever been stopped and frisked or arrested for loitering, jaywalking, or any other petty crime. They clearly don't believe they're 'in any danger from being roughed up by police.' I wonder if that has anything to do with where they live and whether or not they grew up in poverty or were lucky enough to have generational wealth in their family that would keep them out of a ghetto. ...because as he says 'blacks are disproportionately poor' but I get the feeling neither of these two men have been unlucky in that regard.
'That victim complex started in 1966.' Weird. What was happening that would have started something like that? And are you saying the civil rights movement was based in 'a victim complex?'
John McWhorter analysis is very ivory towerish who weaponizes his linguistic prowess to promote a false dichotomy. You can hold the dominant white culture accountable and achieve with high standards as a black person.
Yes, and no: Something most black Americans have done way before these two eggheads appeared on the grand stage of public life, verbally. They're treating their experiences as though it is a Blueprint for every black person who has, and is now witnessing racism in their personal lives. Like most white commenters here, they only affirm the Label, or tag attached to ALL black people. VICTIMS!! The moderately educated kinds, the ones who throw around the N word ad libitum. There is another element at play here as well.It's called, Karma. Like the karma of say, Daniel Craig. Or, Samuel L. Jackson. Considering that these two fellows, famous and wealthy are decent people. What would you consider the karma of Donald Trump?? Or, Bashar al Assad? Putin, for that matter?? Also, let's examine racial Karma. As Actress, Shirley Maclaine pointed out in regards to the Jews in Nazi Germany. Then, consider the African American experience in this country: Check out the East St. Louis Massacre in 1917. And later, Tulsa Oklahoma. Go back even further even up to New York. These two guys are ignoring not only these incidents in the history of their own people. But actually, luxuriating in their own successes. IT DIDN'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY for either one of them. Think about it. Either one of them could have been a George Floyd. Being a man of Christian thinking. John Mcwhorter should understand this. But he actually and smugly ignores it.
People it's sad when self-named ACADEMICS/INTELLECTUALS need and could benefit from a good U.S. History lesson. Black people who are successful, and I use that term very lightly need to stop pushing the false "no racism in America" narrative.
They don't. If you actually listened, they never say no racism, EVER.
@@edwinamendelssohn5129 Someday you will need to learn how to listen to the Black self-haters and decipher their language.
Black people should in fact speak up more when we suffer racism because the "victim" pushback narrative is used as opposition to us when we call people and organizations out.
The racists want us to shut up and stop complaining because their idea of racial harmony is us remaining silent.
@@halbleavy9900 to look at disparities through one lens is not scientific. What was true yesterday isn't true today. Some problems have escalated further from slavery and Jim Crow. Self hating is letting left wing politicians use you for votes and employ policies that in fact harm black people. Have you noticed how relaxed these men are? They're not under an thumb. Their minds are free.
@@edwinamendelssohn5129 Why is it that white people who vote republican every 2-years and they stay poor and poorly educated get a pass and everyone has a criticism for us and how we vote? Are their minds free? They vote against health care, tricked into doing it by the ones whose health care they pay for. Are their minds free?
While we're here name a piece of legislation passed by republicans to help Americans who make under 60K per year. Name a piece of legislation by republicans to make Black American's lives better.
@@halbleavy9900 Are they focusing on being oppressed? Are they blaming others for their lives? They prefer freedom over free stuff. You're deflecting
Nobody in this world is innocent
True but nobody has committed the same level of carnage that is visibly affecting Modern Life
This is reverse dunning kruger!
10:57 a major problem with the cops murdering white people
I take huge issue with that. "Major problem" and "murder"? What did WaPo find, about 1,000 killed every year by police? How many of those can legitimately be called "murders"? More than 50? Meanwhile 59 cops were killed in the line of duty (does that include car accidents?) and another 15,000 were assaulted with dangerous weapons, including 2,700 who were shot at (although only about 180 of them got shot)
Meanwhile 7,000 white people were murdered by non-cops. With 17,000 total homicides (not to mention 45,000 or so suicides), people getting killed by the cops is not the major problem, it's less than 2% of the total social problem.
Victor Timothy Blackman
Imagine John McWhorter accusing others of manufacturing their persona. Few others do it like John.
Was it Kwame Brown?
Jussie Smollett is a curated persona you speak of.
Compared to the karens and lies push Forth by white women who belibe in racism that dide you speak of is an anomaly
@@hbsupreme1499 What about the people that play the race card simply because they don't like is said or done to them regardless if it is in fact based on race?
The audience for it will label it as alt right and ignore it. So sad it sounds interesting Id read it but I don't need to be persuaded.
Or maybe the vast majority of educated and successful blk Americans find this rhetoric useless in comparison to other more influential blk academics. Both guys work for the Koch brothers and have no academic credentials in the subject of race. Their work doesn’t appeal to ppl like myself because it’s just not good. No details and full of fabricated and false narratives. Personally this is empathy rhetoric that doesn’t deserve a serious investment
@@jausti2 What both men are academics both are black men and you just said they have no credentials to write on race and yes blame Koch brothers like the right blames Sorrows. Idc if u want to live in lala land in your tribe but when you come out and speak try to speak like a regular human and show some critical thinking abilities. Most people know their is no benefit in having any discourse with far leftists cause you are so entrenched same as far right. So ✌️
@@grizzlyadamblack lol. Wait you just assumed I’m a leftist then claim I lack critical thinking? No I’m providing context and giving a brief opinion on their propaganda. I have the same skepticism when it comes to left wing politically funded media. A critical thinker would take the context provided and ask for evidence and data to back up their claims. Which is what I’m pointing out. This propaganda appeals to the non critical thinker with its use of straw men and vast generalizations. I would love it if ppl invested in data based academic work on this subject.
@@jausti2 i saw u reposted again ✌️
I love John McWhorter, but he frustrates me so much when he gives these people passes.
John is basically saying that woke, white enablers and the black victim race pumps are actually sincere in their motives.
He is saying that these black people actually believe that the police and white people are preoccupied everyday withholding them back and causing physical and emotional harm to them.
I'm sorry John but that's a load of BS... 🤨
I disagree with you. The majority of the woke DO believe they are righteous and that systemic racism and conspiracies do oppress them. It is a belief system that grounds them and allows them to make sense of the world much like religion does for others.
There rest of the woke simply use the movement for personal financial gain and fame.
@@usernamesrlamo history show that systemic racism exist
You call it black victim hood when its stated that black peole are a hated class's I have yet to see anyone who claims black people play the vitim dry to debunk America's racist history.
You act like white folks and white racist are the same thing the latter is the former is not yall will do anything to try and make it sound like it in black people heads
THOMAS SOWELL
Tap dancer
I think one of the best contributions of John to this conversation is when he said that the George Floyd protests were a byproduct of the pandemic. So, in order to explain people's eagerness to tear down society and pretend no progress has ever been achieved, we must look deeper into how we have lived for the past 10-20yrs. Social media is a part of it but so is the war on terror, the 2008 crisis, climate change... we have been living under a great deal of uncertainty and fear. The future is gloomy. And the whole woke movement is a reaction to that: a bunch of lost souls who finally found a way to feel relevant. And in the case of people such as Ibram X Kendi or Robin DiAngelo, they are making a sh*t load of money, too. If you take this away from them, they're back to nothingness.
@: Isadora... lots of words... " and sounding brass, signifying nothing ".
Nice eyebrows bra. I can't stop looking at them.
Goddamn: 2:09 - 3:04
Preach!
I found it curious that on the news this week Barbados declared itself an independent nation and officially cut all ties with the British Commonwealth. Prince Charles was there for the handover, where he dutifully berated himself and the Crown for the era of African slavery, and how hard it was for them all to suffer under British governance. That actual era aside, if I was a Barbados native, I would be thanking my lucky stars my great, great, great grandpa was snatched from the Namibian savanna. It meant I and thousands of other African decadents now live in a tropical paradise. And pretending like I was angry about my countries history would be entirely disingenuous.
Barbados is still a member of the British Commonwealth, though no longer with Queen Elizabeth as their Queen, as they are now a Republic, rather than a Monarchy. Dame Sandra Mason was elected as the first President of Barbados at the end of October.
Yoooo!!!... if you ever said this in public.. they will eat you up...
Seriously, don't say this in public.
@@bibaolaitan5189 it's true though.
@@mayormccheese6171 doesnt mean slavery is not bad... but i agree
@@bibaolaitan5189 Australia was built by convicts who were dragged there in chains to build the place. Many were never allowed to leave. But you don't hear any Aussies saying "boo hoo! You tore us away from Dublin and Manchester! The British ruined our lives!" They all are thankful history played out the way it did and they look back on their convict heritage with a cheeky pride.
Is this fool arguing that when I as a black man complain about my steak being ill prepared or a less competent white man being promoted over me, I am trying to surreptitiously empower myself through a victim strategy?
Every disappointment in life is NOT due to race.
I would argue that consciousness developed much the same in every human mind and there are no irrational agents. It might seem so but while one group may be shaped to have an inflated sense of agency another may feel they are victims although they have the same skin color. I mean wouldn't it make more sense that all human beings are maladjusted due to trauma imposed on them prior to specific cognitive milestones. Such as puberty, the age of 18 and the full development of the brain. You can even see it in the regression people in old age.
I think this is a fallacy a lot of people make. The mind informs the body. Aren't white Americans the same victims of in groups as black Americans. Just a different manifestation of trauma. To retcon racism as classism is bullshit. But what's the difference between a democrat that is a wolf in sheep's clothing and a republican with no shame or a bleeding heart liberal and a well intentioned republican. I think we consider the difference between good and bad actors as statistically insignificant and it's not and the people we think are good or bad aren't that simple. It's more likely that everything good about humanity is treading water. Outside of people of character and we're more likely to live up to our ideals in the presence of an abundance of resources.
You lost me pretty early.
How is it possible there are no irrational agents, and what is the connection with that and agency/victimhood?
@@libertyprime9307 Essentially some people are formed by trauma before they hit milestones of self awareness or intellect. Like interventions could of happened but didn't or too late. An analogy would be being born with a physical handicap. So to avoid moral absolutes let's say free will and determinism are both valid in different measure.
So basically edmund kemper and adolf hitler could have been different people but instead they became products of society and leaned into being pieces of shit. The idea that modern psychology would have fixed them is naive. Just the same as socrates, plato, aristotle, alexander the great could have been different people. Essentially they were benefactors of generational knowledge and wealthy people that enabled them. Even someone like tesla before it was too late in his development he decided to break from society.
So to say someone is irrational, you're not accounting for time. They might be a bad actor. It's not that reality is relative but consciousness has reacted to stimuli. Most people are maladjusted not by their own choosing and then are traumatized by the world. So it looks irrational but makes sense in the macro. They have warped logic and inverted morality.
Sorry for being so long winded but. The trauma makes them develop defense mechanisms and those defense mechanisms compel them to protect the maladjusted self so they're incapable of change. So a narcissist feels superior to people but they don't realize they lack emotional tools and relationships that would enrich their lives. What's worse is their validated by society. So willy wonka that, some people are truly victims of circumstance because they lack the emotional machinery and external forces that would allow them to change themselves. So if you think people are completely responsible for themselves it' s probably that you're running into the limits of understanding scale. Like you're 1/7,000,000,000 of agents and I can say it but, I can't even really wrap my head around it.
@@libertyprime9307 So my argument seems nonsensical but then you realize muhammad ali wandered into angelo dunee's gym or mike tyson got plugged into cus d'amato's gym. Agency is the result of an environment that enables you to be your best self and victimhood is the result of an environment that undercuts you. The only way be your best self in an environment that is hostile is to deny yourself and be what society wants you to be. I would argue that's not healthy but maladjusted and the success you achieve is superficial.
@@libertyprime9307 Just to beat you over the head. I'd say society is maladjusted and the porn industry is de facto rape of young women and war is de facto violence for profit. We've just all agreed to it and pretend we're civilized. So my point would be outcomes are nonsensical and a righteous person's perception of themselves is probably more accurate than ours.