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Hand Traps Are Kinda Mid Right Now
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- Опубликовано: 25 июн 2024
- #masterduel #yugioh #handtraps
This is probably the lowest i've seen handtraps in awhile in master duel... we have droll and shifter i guess... aside from that impact feeling weak
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Bystial have not been power crept, it's just that they are in a bad position right now due to being bad against the top deck, they are still very strong cards. This is not power creep, this is just decks having streghts and weaknesses and these not matching well for Bystial in this current meta. I do agree with the archetypal handratrap though, I think they are extremely cool and are severely unexplored by the game
(As was pointed out by another commenter) They're arguably not even in that bad of a position still a solid chunk of staple link monsters are dark now whether hitting the staple links with this is good or bad depends on personal opinion.
@@clarkecreates That is true. Bystial can still be used to, for example, banish I:P from the GY when they try to activate Flamberge's effect to put it in the backrow.
hmmm yea bystials aren't power crept cards like ash blossom, etc are though. if we drop a single negate/interaction handtrap we get run over if we're going 2nd(2 can also be not enough even if used optimally ash blossom on branded fusion for ex is optimal). Format is just not good for bystials.
@@clarkecreates it can allow you to summon a bystial at least and maybe run over some things by battle. but it's not going to be as effective as d.d. crow... but crow has so many flaws as well :/
@@erbinha_1234 that's not used in fire king snake eye only pure. for pure they summon back I:P by popping amblowhale and using amblowhale eff to special summon. In this case crow is so much better if you just do crow banish promethean princess.
You're only considering high tier but keep in mind as long as high tier decks are as expensive as they are the majority of low tier tables in any comp tournament will be rogue. The best solution to rogues is now and until every deck has a tenpai field spell, will be hand traps.
Also in high tables players realize hand traps only work IF their opponent can't find the right cards to play through it and instead focus on boards that can lock more reliably.
There is no reason to play 0 hand traps so allowing the meta to fluctuate between very few hand traps and many board breakers, to many hand traps and very few board breakers is a brilliant design choice by Konami.
i mean... the issue is none of the board breakers rn are super good. sure we have maybe like a super poly... but that's a 3 of which ya know praying for a 3 of you'll get it about 1/3 games. Aside from super poly you have evenly... but this means you can't game your opponent and would need to set up a board or have some kind of set up after evenly resolves in M2.
Going 2nd imo needs some juice... Going first is too strong rn and hand traps that aren't on the level of shifter/droll probably won't be stopping any turns. Considering if your opp has wanted/diabell + bonfire, then perhaps original sinful, or ponix etc to normal summon. Your opp has 3 starters, and 2 extenders which are also starters. Could go more into detail but... yea mathmech, snake eye fire king, super heavy samurai. Generic hand traps don't cut it against them you have to go with targeted ones :/
Few points. Sure handtraps aren't literally unplayable, but as of currently in master duel... they have never been worse :) .
Hand traps specifically targeted at a deck are still in general effective... but only against that one deck. Ex if we have spright they can play through shifter somewhat, labyrinth would be ok as well. SHS, Mathmech, Snake eye, fire king all of these decks would suffer. However if we had droll and lock bird, that would mostly only effect snake eye, fire king, SHS. If we were to just drop a single ash blossom joyous spring against any of these decks tho... SHS, Mathmech, Rn are the only cards that can with a single starter(pretty much one card) play right through ash blossom joyous spring. In terms of having 1 extender(in the case of a lot of these decks the extender can also be a starter) every single deck here can play through one ash blossom.
I haven't done the full calc/analysis, but it's not hard to see how the going first player is insanely favored. If both players are using going first decks anyways(i don't think there are any super good going 2nd strategies rn or a lot of good going 2nd cards in my opinion for current format wouldn't mind getting proven wrong on this point tho tbh). Worth mentioning that shifter as well is not playable in the majority of the decks listed above as you would also be under shifter the following turn.
The only saving grace to this format as of right now is that no deck is insanely stronger than all others like tear 0 format... But Going 2nd in general is shafted. Also ofc... hand traps are in general being power crept because of how strong the new archetypes we're getting in general are in terms of being hand trap resistant. Like straight up if i'm not playing shifter i have no idea how to prepare for going 2nd at all with my non engine cards...
I'm enjoying going all engine with tri-brigade fire kings. Going second it can play through most things barring full snake eye eye board + non engine
I mean engine being so strong rn makes sense. Although you have some horrible weaknesses that can't be covered up without non engine(Hand traps going 2nd cards etc). Notably Kash, stun, floo are some really bad match ups to go 2nd against. I guess everything has a downside?...
Everyone still be running as many as possible, if I put more than like 5 in my deck on master duel going first seems to just fail..
going 2nd seems pretty bad rn... pain
how do you have so much UR points and UR cards? how much did you spent? because the gem packs are so expensive and i played since release and dont even have all the staples. did you dropped like 3k$ on this game or is there some way to purchase cheap i dont know about?
idk i didn't really drop that much only times i dropped might just be for alt art. this is not what 3k dropped looks like btw. i know someone that did it gets you a looot more. for starters tho i haven't crafted any copies of maxx c and i finish all my dailies. etc. Also i max out ranked i guess?...
Im coming from the TCG and not Master Duel but the statement should still be kinda true:
One Handtrap is not enough to consistently stop a deck from doing its combo, in fact one was NEVER enough in the TCG, so you want to draw at least draw 2 different ones.
Handtraps dont really get... bad. They are better or worse depending on the format. Ogre is sometimes great and sometimes bad for example.
Also going second is not great because there is no good option.
Every Handtrap works going first and going 2nd. But board breakers as powerful as they are dont work going 1st. So you cant play 15 Board breakers because going first you play with 15 Bricks in your deck. That alone makes going 2nd worse.
Shifter is what you would call an archetypal Handtrap because you play it in Decks that profit from banishing cards and its very close to being a turn ending Handtrap.
And i would say its good that a single Handtraps doesnt stop your opponent. It never should, because that would mean that you could stop your opponent 80+% of the time. And something like that seems awful.
Math behing the last one: Having 15 HTs in a 40 card deck means that you will draw at least one Handtrap in your opening Hand 91% of the time.
well for master duel right now going first and second is so in favor of going first... hand traps need some juice. Issue tho let's assume you have ash blossom joyous spring your opponents only extender/starter is super heavy samurai soulpiercer.... when do you ash :)
literally doesn't matter it does what might as well be straight up nothing. Part of the issue is how extreme everything is Shifter or droll can be turn ending/game winning immediately... or other going 2nd cards like let's say raigeki, ash blossom, imperm. Which do actually nothing (in case your opponent has a bunch of one card combos/extenders) mathmech is way more guilty then SHS in this case... activate circular that entire line has what might as well be no choke point... can't droll (can shifter tho), single ash they can still end on S/T negate + a ghetto omni, an imperm can be played around if they have any normal summon that can be linked off into almiraj, ex maxx c, ash, effect veiler.
idk maybe we could legit use a handtrap with a powerful effect in general then have a condition like you can't normal summon the next turn. Like straight up even if you were to hit optimal points equal amount of hand traps to starters/extenders can be not enough to stop combos.
TLDR: new engine monsters/starters have what might as well be 2+ effects(schieren technically has 2 but... special summon self, fusion summon, and mill might as well be 3 effects) ash blossom can negate one effect per turn math doesn't add up...
@@phienex You are correct with these statements and the solution we came up with was that we build our deck around drawing 2 Handtraps in our starthand, as bad as it sound. Because 2 HTs can actually stop your opponent. Or we use board breakers that arent bricks turn 1 like Super poly or droplet. That is how the game evolves at the moment. I understand however that master duel is a best of one format where side decks arent a thing.
But the decks you mentioned are meta decks from what i could get. And the best way to win against meta decks is to play meta. That however is not the problem of handtraps but another matter.
Because powerful HTs to stop meta will also be used in meta decks
my issue in general is with just how strong engine cards are vs non engine. And specifically how options for going 2nd are so bad rn. On top of that it's not just one deck doing this... so you can't like just throw some targeted hand traps necessarily.
Even if we were playing meta vs meta tho going first player is so favored if they have even an ok hand.(haven't done the math so can't 100% confirm the exact probability but it should be a noticeable margin rn of the disparity between going first and 2nd imo)
The decks that can be played rn are diverse but... they're all able to mostly play through/around some hand traps, nib, and board breakers. All of these statements are about right now though. Which i mean if it was only going to be like this for 1-2 formats even sure fine whatever. But my issue is if it's going to be like this going forward and nothing is really done the game in general will become more unfun.
As unbelievable as it sounds i don't like being a Doomer... but i hate the idea of the going 2nd player having what feels like what might as well be no chance(your odds of winning are less even if you somewhat prep for going 2nd although i won't have the exact odds/stats rn blind guess i'd say 33% or less) simply because they are not the going first player.
They are mid indeed but you survive on hand traps against some deck if you brick nibiru for example could save life bystials too most of the best extra deck monster are dark
SHS, Spright, Fire king snake eye, Rescue ace, etc. Everything as far as i can tell rn are just so fine against handtraps it's miserable. Sure you could be bricked on whatever handtraps/can't get that much milage out of them... ex nibiru vs spright(if opp resolves gigantic no nib) Best option is to simply have the optimal going 2nd card whatever that might be... as of currently super poly, lava golem, perhaps sphere mode. The easiest to implement probably super poly rn.
But imo in terms of non targeted hand traps(shifter, droll) Hand traps have never been this bad in master duel before
Im sorry for asking like this BUT HOW DO YOU HAVE SO MUCH UR CARD MATERIAL??? IM BARELLY GETTING BY 😭😭😭
Either he doesn’t spend them, gets the cards he needs with gems entirely, or spends money on the game and dusts card he doesn’t want, my advice is don’t spend ur points and try to get all your cards you want with gems of secret packs are available, take advantage of new decks you want being in the shop as long as possible if it’s got 70 days before it’s gone don’t use any ur points on the cards until the pack is gone, goodluck
i manage my UR dust well and have been playing since release. in fact i haven't dismantled quite a few cards which i have a lot i can dismantle tbh.
@@homieboyz1 that's solid advice if you pull a UR instead of crafting it it's 3x cheaper. And afterwards you can put it into something else.
@@phienex not to mention that cards from new packs if meta relevant get banned so that’s extra ur when you didn’t spend any crafting points on it
Dude rn I have more success in ranked if I have these following cards:.
3 MAXX C, 3 Ash Blossoms, 3 Imperms, 3 Summon Limits, 3 Royal Prisons, and 3 Divine Wraths.
If my hand isn't nothing, nor is my deck dedicated to: Interruptions I'm NOT going to be even having fun, nor really able to actually play. 🥲
i mean your deck is mostly a goin first deck... and imperm + maxx c are kind of weak. in terms of turn enders if you have maxx c your opp has a 50%+ chance of having an out to maxx c (doesn't take into consideration plays that work under maxx c if a deck has those)
Fire king also being able to dodge imperm with up to 6 cards in their main deck (same math problem as maxx c above) your hand trap line up is in a lot of disadvantage. Also the build is kind of going first from what i can tell. So going 2nd most games you seem pretty likely to lose.