Granted, the Manufacturers recommending 15k oil change intervals is mostly likely trying to comply with EPA guidelines, and reduce the amount of waste. Gotta remember that there a bigger body controlling what car manufacturers do.
Of my 27 years of driving in Northern Canada where we have -50ºC temperature extremes and mostly a constant -23ºC most of winter, No matter what people say, I always warm up my vehicle for a minimum of 20 minutes at these temps to make sure that everything is operational and my battery is getting topped up by the alternator. I need to make sure that my car won’t die in the middle of nowhere where windchill can cause life threatening conditions in minutes. I also find that after driving various brands from reliable Toyotas, BMW, GMC,Mercedes, LandRover, Honda and Mitsubishi that all of them have a lethargic feel on extreme cold. It seems that the gearbox is not up to temperature, the engine, driveline, diff, transfer case and etc. They all have that “friction feel and hesitation to accelerate” I don’t wanna push them hard without warming slowly as I wouldn’t want to risk a gasket leak or a cracked engine.
I always let my engine warm up for about 30-40 seconds before I drive off. It is not really about the engine but THE TRANSMISSION. The engine oil at 0W-20 is so thin that is not the problem. What needs slight warming and circulation is the transmission fluid. It's viscosity is much thicker than engine oil, so it needs a few seconds to circulate and warm to protect the transmission. If you start your vehicle, put on your sunglasses, put on your seatbelt, observe everything around you, by the time you are done it has been 30 seconds.
That Dave's auto center guy really opened a can of worms on this one. Your explanation and viewpoint is the best I've heard on this topic. Personally and depending on the temp I do let my vehicle warm up to a degree.
@@CanadianGearheadMaybe. But that fact alone doesn't discredit Dave's knowledge of rebuilding engines and 40 years experience along with founding one of the largest engine rebuilders in the Western United States.
I let everything i own warm up, jeep, truck, quad, lawnmower, tractor, chainsaw, log splitter, weed eater, it's just common sense, when I lift weights I don't just go straight for 350 lbs, I warm up first so I don't hurt something
I've been installing remote starters for 34yrs now in southern Ontario. The main reason to remote start your car....is your own comfort. Secondary is to get snow/frost/ice started to melt. I totally agree that it's just a matter of balance and how you treat your car and how you maintain your car. My personal belief is that a min or 2 is plenty b4 you drive off and don't hammer the gas till it's properly warmed up. My personal practice is typically letting my remote start run for 15-20mins b4 I go is cuz I'm lazy old and a p***y and I like my car warmer when I go out in the cold.
In the summers i wait till the idle comes down and during winters i wait for abt 2 to 3 mins for the engine to warm up snd then drive slowly till it reaches operating temperatures
Great video!! So many of the videos out there are clickbaiting BS: "Oh you are literally destroying your car by idling it!" "You only need to heat it up if it's carburated!" "You are going to washdown your cylinders and blow your engine up!" I've come to a similar conclusion: It really doesn't matter. I usually warm mine up in the winter because I prefer that my car isn't absolutely frigid while I drive it. Usually around 5-10 minutes. It shuts off on its own at the 15 minute mark so never longer than that. Yes it's a waste of fuel, yes I'm putting wear on my starter (my 4runner shuts off when I open the door) but I really don't care. Police cruisers idle for thousands and thousands of hours per year; I really don't think a little idling will destroy my car. I genuinely do think a big part of it is climate-agenda-based.
Used to do exactly what you suggested for very cold climate start ups when I lived in ski country and made the car drive ready right after I started it. Good breakdown, I'll be watching here with great interest.
I'm pretty much like you. I live in a tiny town of NE Washington State. Regardless of weather, when I leave my house, I just wait for the RPMs to drop below1,000, and then drive gently, not letting the engine go over 2,500 until it's warmed up. But my work is right on a 50 MPH highway, so when I leave, I let it warm up for a few minutes in the winter, about a minute in the summer. 2010 Mazda 6 manual 140k miles. Burns zero oil. Also have a 15 GMC 2500 6.0 gas with 195k miles also burns zero oil.
This is another example of low-resolution thinking: Everything is all or nothing. If you live next to a “fast” street where you are expected to be going 45 mph out of your driveway, let the car warm up on idle for a bit. If you live a mile back from the Main Street in a housing area with residential streets, you can start rolling immediately and let the car warm up that way. Use judgement.
For me ambient temperature determines warm up time. As well as who is riding with me. As you say kids or elderly I get the cab warmer. Legit channel. Underrated but I expect that to change. Good stuff.
The reason for letting the the engine run for a few minutes is to get the fluids up from where they settled and start performing there cooling and lubricateing functions. Fluids don't necessarily have to be warmed up, it just helps.
I've been daily driving my 2007 mazda3 in Saskatchewan since it was new. It gets really cold here. I don't have a long commute so it's fairly low milage but it's gone through a lot of heat cycles and still runs great with no drivetrain issues. It's never been parked in a garage. I have an aftermarket remote starter that shuts off after 15 min. From About -10C to -20C I'll let it warm for 5 to 10 minutes. Below -20, I plug in the block heater and heated battery blanket and still let it warm up for 5 to 10 minutes. On days that it's really cold (-30C and below), and I'm not some where that I'm able to plug in the block heater and battery blanket, I'll start it and let it time out and shut off on its own every so often like at lunch time at work. Dead batteries in -30 isn't fun. Cold starts at -30 is hard on everything. Even winter tires can get hard and shocks get a lot stiffer.
Great video on your thoughts I never warm mine up for any longer then 2 to 5 minutes but I'm in arizona our winter is never colder then 22 degrees for a month or so
I think older vehicles and turbos could benefit from a few minutes idling in cold temperatures. Once your cab is comfortable and your windshield is defrosted, you're good to go.
Lots of good points I agree on the points of manufacturing are saying not do it because they want to sell you another vehicle . They don't make money if a buyer is using the vehicle for 40 years
I lived in the North, my buddy had a nice Mazda B2200 truck with low mileage. His wife took it out in February at -40c and drove it hard down the road no warmup, it wiped all main bearings out on the engine in less than 5 minutes.
Thank you! 👍 Of my 27 years of driving in Northern Canada where we have -50ºC temperature extremes and mostly a constant -23ºC most of winter, No matter what people say, I always warm up my vehicle for a minimum of 20 minutes at these temps to make sure that everything is operational and my battery is getting topped up by the alternator. I need to make sure that my car won’t die in the middle of nowhere where windchill can cause life threatening conditions in minutes. I also find that after driving various brands from reliable Toyotas, BMW, GMC,Mercedes, LandRover, Honda and Mitsubishi that all of them have a lethargic feel on extreme cold. It seems that the gearbox is not up to temperature, the engine, driveline, diff, transfer case and etc. They all have that “friction feel and hesitation to accelerate” I don’t wanna push them hard without warming slowly as I wouldn’t want to risk a gasket leak or a cracked engine.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with this approach -- especially when heading out into serious winter conditions in a rural locale -- doubly so if both. It's not necessarily only about your engine either -- it gives you a couple minutes to listen to your car, notice if you're driving on a flat tire or with nothing but fumes in the tank. That said I keep my garage at 68° year round so I generally consider my 4Runner pre-warmed.
Im exactly with you. It all depends on the temp and stuff but typically anywhere from 15 seconds or so or for a few minutes. Seems to have worked for me and I’ve never had a problem yet. Also a lot of people that idle their vehicles to warm up for 20+ mintutes fail to realize that although your engine is now warm most of the other parts of your vehicle are still cold/frozen. A big one people never think about is your transmission temp.
I’m pretty much with you. What takes a while to get up to operating temperature is the oil. It takes at least five miles for the oil to get close to operating temperature and pressure. It makes the most sense to me to take it easy until then.
I'm still trying to decide what is best as far as the warm up. One video source described GM Hemi engines as an oil problem for the cam shafts if you idle for excessive amounts of time, the idea presented was that the cam shafts are too high for the pump to lube them good at idle. I personally like to warm up my Bronco for about 5 to 10 minutes when its cold. The thing just seems to work better and it is more comfortable for the driver. I agree with the overall comment that it is better to let the motor expand slowly and not to really give it excess throttle until coolant is up to temp. Thanks for a great video.
I currently own three vehicles that are carbureted, the key here is that the choke is set correctly, and the idle mixture is also set correctly and the plugs, wires, cap & rotor are all good as well as the air filter is clean, if that's good your good to go, but what I've seen done back in the day was as soon as winter came and the vehicle failed to start instead of recognizing that it needed tuned up they always set the choke so it doesn't close fully and adjust the idle mixture too rich so that your washing the cylinder walls with excessive fuel even after the choke opens, more engines had their lives cut short because of this that any other reason. The earlier engines didn't care how long you idled them, the newer engines like the hemi will starve the cam and lifters for oil unless you either increases the idle speed or upgrade to a high-volume oil pump. That said I let my newer hemis warm up for a minute or so in the dead of winter my earlies engines as long as they need to drop off high idle.
Good points. This is my winter ritual. 1) Start and let run for about 30 sec to get oil up top and to turbo. 2) Move to high idle at 1800 - 2k for 10 mins. Your high idle method/kit is up to you. 3) Take of high idle and go. Remember..auto manufacturers are not the best source for care of their engines. Evidence? These are the same people that recommend 10k oil changes and put weak piston rings in. These are also the same people that designed engines that coke up in the intake (gdi). These are also the same people that design engines that run into varnish issues because they recommend conventional oil when their design clearly needed synthetic. Kinda like they are setting you up for failure on modern engines right?
I feel like the people telling us that you must start and immediately start driving, and not to idle are the same types of people that assured us the COVid vaccine was 100% effective.
You don’t gotta let it warm up. If you start your car on a 20 degree day and let it warm up. It’s the same as starting it on a 40 degree day and immediately driving. That warm up idle exists only for the catalytic converter to warm up
There is literally data showing oil lubricity vs temperature (it doesn’t change) and clearance calculation can be done as it’s simple metal expansion. The fact that you answer with “I feel” to a relatively simple engineering question is the real problem. No, an engine does not need to be warmed up, but you don’t want to overheat a valve or a piston as they will expand faster than their bores, though this risk goes away quickly after an engine start.
I had a Toyota Prius plugin for 7 years. One of the genius details of that car was that you could turn it on and go right away. It would propel the car with the electric motors until the engine was warm enough,. Now I drive a Subaru, and I wait for the idle speed to drop before I start driving. Kind of annoying, but I want this thing to last a very long time.
Good stuff. There is one other factor that is rarely discussed and that is blow-by before the rings are up to temp, particularly in engines with low tension rings. If you increase internal cylinder pressure (by asking your car to make power) before the rings have sealed against the cylinder walls, the rich air fuel mixture can pass the rings and contaminate the oil. Because of this, I believe a short 30 second warm up is prudent, then drive, but baby it until the engine comes up to normal operating temp.
Engine size also determines warm up time and if it's stick vs auto.. coming from a 2L to a 1.6L turbo stick if it's cold out -23°C or below the smaller engine just doesn't build any heat unless you drive it.. even with a block heater but it does sounds alot better when it's plugged in and doesn't stay in super high idle for long before dropping down to regular high idle.. the turbo engine also limits boost first at super high idle after that max boost only if the temp gauge is at 1/4.. for short trip extreme cold still warm up for abit to combat that i change the oil every 6 months regardless of mileage could be 1600 kilo.. dump it..
I have been always warming up all my cars (including my current T4R v8) like you do. Simpy allowing for the oil pump to flow some liquid from the oil pan to the head(s) and lubricate the valvetrain, and let the rpms drop below 1000
🍁🍁 Canada 1) Most people don't have the luxury of an electrical source to use a block heater! 2) Warming up a vehicle for a minimum of five minutes is crucial for both the engine and the transmission! 3) The bonus is that hopefully, the Cab will warm up too and avoiding the glass frosting over! In my case, I have an Auto-Start system. If I am distracted, and so as to not waste too much fuel, it shuts down/off at fifteen minutes. At >26 years old with just under 300,000Klm's, it doesn't burn oil (or very minuscule amount)! I used to change "premium oil and filter" twice per year. In the last several years, just once per year. BUT I always monitor my fluids regularly. I do a mixed City/Highway driving. 😎😎
It's like arguing about what beer is best. Everyone has an opinion. How cold is cold? In the warmer months, I go with number two and idle down the road. if it's really frozen with lots of snow I give it two minutes while I take off the sheet on my windshield and scrape off any ice then take off.
1999 Lexus LX470 (100 series Land Cruiser) with 295,000 miles (475k km) V8 2UZFE and in mint situation still with no rust and here in Ontario. I always let it warm up for 90 seconds to 2 mins minimum and that is in my garage. And then have a covered warm drive for a bit as I exit outside. Always nice and slow. In Ontario Winter if parked outside, if in freezing temps, I will let it warm up for 3 plus minutes if it has been sitting there for hours/ overnight. If it was driven before and not sitting in freezing temps for a while then maybe will warm up a little shorter as it probably is still warm inside. I don't care about how cold it is inside the vehicle, the engine and whats best for it, the transmission and differentials matters for me. Unless i have my three kids under 3 in the vehicle with me :) But I have obd sensor readings going to my carplay head unit and can read the temperatures for all sensors and I watch that also. So far warming this car up for 25 years has clearly made it last for 475,000 km and have opened up the engine and all looks very clean still. Will continue doing this. Just found your channel, liking it. Thanks!
My unscientific non mechanic method. Current daily driver 2023 4Runner. Above freezing and not in a rush. 30 second for me to put on my seatbelt gather thought look for traffic. Below freezing - remote start a few minutes before I put on shoes and walk out. This is general rule of thumb but my day is not made or broken by it. If I’m in a rush it is what it is. My 2003 Tacoma bought new in my 20s with 360k had every imaginable circumstance. She still runs great…. May die from rust eventually.
Toyota manual in other countries. Temps above freezing you're good to go if driving gently with a 10W30 or below viscosity by waiting about 10 seconds assuming the idle is correct. 32 degrees to 0, give it a few minutes. below 0 and the suggestion is to allow the idle time to level off and to remove all condensation before gently driving. Notice they don't give a set anount of minutes. Only in America does this advice change. Infact all Toyota engines can run 5W30 as a viscosity, America doesn't list that and they aren't actually changing the engine from continent to continent. But 5W30 is not ideal if you are regularly below -10F in the morning. I think that the issue is common sense isn't as common as it once was. 5W30 even synthetic is not great at tempatures above 85 degrees, does it work, yes? But up to 100 degrees 10W30 flows just as well in the summer and assuming you have the bearing clearances and temperatures ambient exceed 100F you can use a 10W40 as long as the engine oil is changed out before winter. The main issue is people don't like constantly changing viscosity oil in the engine and they don't change it every three months to account for rhe change in weather. So you have to idiot proof recommendations. Also newer oil such as 0W8 heats up much faster in the engine then let's say a 5W30 or a 10W30. Let alone vehicles that have engine blocks to warm up in the morning. An engine block heater would be ideal to reduce wear and teae but good luck getting people who are willing to use it. Hence a combination of EPA with emissions, and general human laziness. It also looks better on paper to reduce the cost of ownership even if it isn't what is best for the vehicle.
It depends on the humidity too. Clean/Defog your Windows before driving. Even in the summer windows can get foggy and sunrise blind you. Turbo especially needs to be warmed up before flooring it. I roll as soon as the windows defog then drive gently until optimal temperature. You can drive below the speed limit especially with kids crossing the street to the bus stop.
'92 Jeep XJ here, 4.0 HO motor. I let it warm up 10 minutes at any temperatures under 50*F, longer if it's colder. Usually until at least until the coolant hits temperature and the thermostat opens up; oil pressure stays under 65psi on the highway this way (excessive oil pressure does NOT mean good lubrication), and about 40psi at hot idle. Yeah, it isn't nice on the wallet, but I can say that 33 year old motor doesn't burn oil, and runs quiet after hitting op temps. 5w30 for California winters, 5w40 in summer, 0w30 if I'm gonna be anywhere with temperatures under 30*F. Still running strong, still getting about 22mpg out of the thing (computed during fillups at the pump). Oh, and change your oil every 3-5k miles, I give zero f**ks what the manufacturer says nowadays. Most motor oils lose their additive pack at that point, which is part of what's killing the modern low-displacement, turbo charged motors. They get sludged, are already dealing with high demands of the metal itself dye to forced induction. Granted, things are made differently nowadays from an engineering standpoint, but there's also a reason so many vehicles from the to the mid-00s are still on the road, and a lot of new vehicles end up with major engine failures before they hit 200k miles.
Same here!! 1992 XJ 4.0! Regular oil changes and not flooring it until its warmed up! I'll start it, then go about getting things for work, so it gets 1-3 minutes of idle, then drive gently until it warms up. Runs great, doesn't burn oil, BUT it is loud when it's cold 😂
Yes I think you nailed it mate. Not all situations are the same and you should adjust accordingly to weather, type of vehicle and other factors. I live in Australia and we have hot summers and mild winters with morning temperature still often getting to down to around 1 degrees Celsius in winter. I drive a turbo diesel pick up and what i do is different depending on the situation. I live a on major highway that is on a steep long hill. If i need to go north (which is up the hill) I will warm the engine up for a few minutes but i high idol it after about 30 seconds (hold down the accelerator to around 2k rpm which still basically has no load on the engine and creates a couple of psi of positive boost pressure). The water temp is still pretty cold after high idling for a couple of minutes but will read about 45c water temp on the obd readout when I feel comfortable heading off up the hill. If im am travelling south (downhill) I get in and drive after how ever long it takes to open the front gate (~30-40 seconds). It is basically idling down the hill anyway while driving so taking off straight away is acceptable in that case in my opinion. I do the same in summer but takes half the time to reach my predetermined 45c - 50c water temp i like to reach before going up the long big hill. Now if i listened to all these mechanics and engineers that say to not warm your engine up "just get in and drive normally" Id likely have far more wear on my engine and turbo in my situation living on a massive long hill. I am basically on the hill and full throttle through the gears with full boost to get up to speed. I dont care what anybody says that isnt good to do on a stone cold engine.
After years of driving in Eastern Ontario winters, I've always waited for the car to blow warmish air before getting underway. It usually takes a couple minutes but it seems to work. I've put hundreds of thousands of miles on my cars and never had an engine issue.
Worked on radisl aircraft egines in the service .You did not make a move until oil temp cyl head temp was up to normal.In really cold weather metals do strange things ,like crack,break etc.Warm it up!
Thought this might be interesting, I own a 2001 Sequoia with the same 2UZ engine (albeit non vvti variant) my owners manual says the same thing as in your MR2 manual to warm it up a few minutes below freezing. I do the same thing as you do in that when it's really cold I give it probably about 5-7 minutes or when the coolant temperature needle starts to move. All I know is that after 245k miles, my engine is running excellent. However, this is only for the iron block, aluminum head 2UZ, in my All aluminum 07 ES350, I find it best to just give it about 1-2 minutes as it heats up much faster and I'm not as worried about different thermal expansion rates.
Same. I agree. Have a 1999 Lexus LX470 (100 series Toyota Land Cruiser) with 295,000 miles, 2UZFE V8 also. I will warm it up 2-3 mins or so and after 25 years it is still going strong with original transmission, differentials and engine. Opened up engine and all still looking very clean. I also change my engine oil every 6 months AND also use conventional 5w-30 toyota still. And it has worked just fine in freezing temps for 25 years in East coast US and now Canada. Fortunately no rust still. Even all my suspension is still orginal and finally now about to replace one lower ball joint.
Also important, is how far are you going to drive? My regular errands (retired), Grocery store/pharmacy/post office are all within 5 minute drive each. If I just drive away without warmup in winter, to run my errands on a regular basis then I have two issues: 1: It basically never reaches full operating temperature, my errands are very short distance and short distance between them. So it doesn't run enough to fully warm up. But If I start with decent warm-up, then it can reach proper operating temperature while running errands. But even then I may leave it locked and running on short errands. 2: A bunch of very short trips isn't enough to charge battery, so it just gets run down, but if I let it warm up and run at short errands, it gets enough charge to stop the battery running down. OTOH, If I'm driving 20 minutes to the next town, then I often just drive away with minimal warmup, because the engine will have plenty of time to fully warm up, and the battery time to charge. While I don't think either warming it up, or driving away after seconds is inherently harmful, I do think it's better to warm it up if you are doing constant very short trips like I am, because otherwise it will seldom actually get fully warmed up.
I always let idle my 2013 Toyota Corolla for about 1-2 minutes depending on the outside temperature.. It still drives like a dream with almost 287K miles on the clock..
I'm a mechanic, and while I haven't done any real testing (not even sure how one would construct a scientific test for this), I'm right there with you. My gas truck I usually let idle only 30 seconds or so, and only when it's cold. My diesel I definitely like to warm up when it's cold out. It makes weird noises if you don't. In summer I basically start, let it idle until the engine smooths out (not usually more than 10 seconds), and take off. The biggest thing is exactly what you said. Take it easy until it's warm. Idle or drive gently, probably doesn't matter which. Just don't be out there hotrodding it 10 seconds after a 0*F start.
It doesn’t need to be totally warm but an extra 3-5 minutes in freezing temps gets the thermostat open quicker and coolant circulation through the heater core faster, which of course eliminates those pesky iced or fogged windows. I have an 01 gs300 that has an unreal heater, it’s warm in like 2 minutes and hot in less than 5, it’s a freak.
Subaru wrx owner here. I monitor my oil temperature on my Cobb Accessport. Usually, around 60 degrees, I'll start driving. If I'm going on the highway, I let it warm up around 113 degrees so the turbo can work more efficiently at high speeds.
I believe it's about viscosity index especially when running a zero w20 oil. I wait until my oil sump is at 80° before I start driving because when I look at the viscosity index as opposed to the temperature of the oil
You gotta wait for oil pressure to build and the oil to become more viscous so it can flow through all the galleries and bearings. Also, when its cold and you drive it, its better to have slightly higher rpm than low rpm because otherwise the load on the bearings is way high.
My 100,000 mile Audi 4 cylinder turbo gets about thirty seconds, long enough for the engine to idle down, before driving off gradually. My 300,000 mile Envoy (Winter beater) gets a few minutes, and I keep revs around 2,000 RPM max until OD engages. (Live in Ontario as well).
I hit the remote start about 5 minutes before I walk out the door with the defrost set on high and the heat turned all the way up. I also back in the drive when I get home so I'm not shifting to reverse and then drive at 1:30 in the morning when I leave for work. My pickup is a little loud so short idle and less shifting and accelerating while stuff is still cold. Good for truck and neighbor relations.
I start my engine up in 20F weather, and then I immediately drive to work in 4th gear so that it warms up faster. On my lunch break, I leave it in third gear so its warmed up all the way before I get back to the building. She purrs like a kitten, never seen a short trip.
I'm not sure why there is no objective evidence. Tear down an engine that's only done long warm ups, tear down a no warm up engine and examine. No one ever mentions the piston gaps of turbo or supercharged engines. They aren't the same as an NA engine. My own anecdote in that my higher mileage Subaru has been warmed up and has worked for me an my engine. I think a turbo car should have a bit more of a warm up. With a cold manual trans it can take a long time for trans fluid to thin up and shift smoothly. I always take it easy until oil temp not coolant temp is pretty high. A lot of modern cars don't fire up immediately because they build some oil pressure by cranking over a few times first. They are not just spraying fuel willy nilly either. I have seen no issue with a few minutes of warm up then drive easy until oil is up to temp. Especially when its cold there is a lot a metal and rubber expanding seems to me a gentle warm up makes sense. Is that really controversial?
I have a 2006 Honda element. I have never let it idle for more than 30 seconds in the winter time and I live in Ontario. I just take it easy at the beginning of the drive ,it has 560,000 km.
I live at 10,000 feet, and the average nightly winter temps are between -10 and 10 degrees F. I will start up my car, brush off the snow, Deice my windshield, which takes around 5-10 minutes, and then the car is ready to go. I do not warm up my car for 20 minutes. Warm up the car for 5-10 minutes and just drive gently until the cold indicator light shuts off which is usually after about a minute or two of driving at 25-30 mph. Some people will just let their cars idle for 30 minutes, and I think that has to do more with letting the inside heat up than warming up the car. Cold weather doesn't bother me. As long as the windshield is defrosted, I don't care whether the car is cold inside or not
I do my best to wait till the RPMs drop a bit before I take it into gear and drive softly. I used to warm up for a very long time in the winter, I will do that NO MORE!
It's funny because I think of this all the time... I have a 4th gen v8. I live in Alberta and have a garage in which the inside temp is typically around 0-4 degrees in winter. I idle for about 25 seconds in neutral and then drive off. It may be overkill but oh well : )
My 2001 Lexus actually says in the manual to let it warm up in cold weather so there’s that, and many older BMW’s must be warmed up before you Rev them out so my tip is don’t over Rev / drive crazy fast regardless untill it’s warm
My sedan is a hybrid and has an electric heater so it requires little warm up time to heat the cabin, but my 18 year old Land Cruiser with 248k miles needs a little warm up when it’s 20f in winter.
Having lived in the interior of Alaska for a very long lifetime, we warm the car up , not the engine. The interior must be warm enough so the windows do not fog while occupants are inside breathing. Visibility is a safety issue. Warmth is a necessity, heat is irritating but cold is debilitating. To summarize, cars are idled for interior conditioning so driving is possible, the engine and transmission follow.
I use a block heater, but I still let my car idle for 30 seconds to 1 minute as I get situated in the car with my seatbelt, dash camera, mirror check etc. and I drive the car gently for the first 5 miles until the transmission warms up.
It would be nice if there were options for drivetrain heaters beyond just the engine. EVs have the option to condition the battery but that still does not heat up any of the moving parts. I remember seing that for artic expeditions they never turned the vehicles off.
I have an older vehicle & I personally wait for my hi idle to drop; Sometimes it’s a couple minutes sometimes 5 or more up here in Canada. They made it easy back then. Each vehicles different.
I always wait like 20 seconds or so, until when the idle revs down a bit, regardless of summer or winter. Not really to warm up, but to wait for the oil to fully circulate the engine before I put any load on the engine. If the car is freezing, I’ll let it warm up more, maybe 5 minutes, because the continuous variable transmission seems to not want to upshift out of bottom gear until the transmission fluid warms up a bit
Here's what I got from my search. AI Overview: While it's generally considered a good practice to let your car run for a brief period in cold weather, most modern cars do not require extensive idling to warm up, and a short 30 seconds to a minute is usually sufficient before driving in winter; extended idling can actually be wasteful and harmful to your engine. I drive a 2016 Toyota Camry SE, in the winter I let run until the idle drops, however if I have snow on the car or frost on the windows I'll wait until I clean it off. And that's about 2/3 minutes to clean off the snow or frost.
You cant go by your user manual for newer cars since there made to be disposable now for most manufacturers thats why most of them tell you you dont have to change your transmission fluid for a hundred k or the life of the car! No fluid will last that long not all of them say that but too many. I let my car warm up in the winter until the heat is enough so i can see out the windshield in the summer 2 or 3 minutes once the hi idle is off but if you dont want your car to last go drive it into a tree in the winter or buy a hemi and let it idle all day like the police do and then you wont get 100k out of it lol you can't idle hemis kills the cam's!!!!
@rabidbeaver167 yea was just trying to be nice about it people get so defensive when they get screwed on junk and try to defend them. I used to be a dodge fan up until the 90s when they got really bad
The only thing is that if the engine isn't up to normal operating temperature, you shouldn't push it as hard. For most people and normal driving you'll be fine, but if you're banging the rev limiter right after a cold start you will increase wear and possibly break things.
I’ve always let it run till it idles down and don’t push it until it hits operating temp. I know for my 2021 RAV4 specifically it starts and runs around 1500rpm fo a minute or so to get everything flowing before idling down to 700ish rpm. It takes a few minutes to get everything setup radio and climate anyway. Then again I live in Texas so we rarely get snow or freezes that bad just a failing power grid.
dont you think your engine would warm up a lot quicker if you know... you got it got hotter? just drive it at low rpms for 5 minutes to loosen up the oil before red lining it; no need to let it warm up while stationary unless its below freezing
Warming engines up was needed Back in the 70s and before For carborated engines vs Fuel Injection warming engines up dosent really apply to fuel injected engines
It's just my preference to let mine warm up about 2-5 minutes. I basically start my vehicle and go back inside kiss my wife goodbye and pet my dog one more time and pour my coffee into my thermos and head out. This practice also stems from my twenty years driving a carbureted truck. (1999-2021) Just my preference, but I lean towards the mindset that giving my engine just a few minutes to warm up is easier on it than immediately driving and the engine having to rev 2k-3k RPM without any warm up. Y'all do what you want to. I'll waste a few sips of gas to give mine a couple minutes to warm up. 😂
My 67 caprice has it's factory quadrajet carburetor with a manual choke. Of course that needs to warm up. But any modern car gets as much time as i takes everyone to get in and sometimes put seat belts on before I'm leaving.
Let's be honest, the answer varies widely. Where it might be ok for me to hop in my 2023 Gladiator and go, I wouldn't do the same to my dad's 76 Olds 442. I will say this as a guy that lived about half his life in Colorado.....get a damn block heater. Plug it in when you get home. When you get in in the morning the water temp is perfect for safer starting, will heat the motor quicker, and most of all you'll immediately have heat to stay warm lol
Usually I start, waiting until the RPM drops (during summer it is quickly, winter - might take up to 0.5-1 mint) and then driving 5 minutes slow to warm up the rest of the car, especially cold transmission
I don't think that extended idling will damage the engine in a modern computer-controlled, closed-loop EFI system. In my Nissan 370Z, I let the engine idle on a cold start until the coolant gets up to temp which takes about 4 minutes; the block and heads are all-aluminum which heat up pretty quickly. I then take off gently, keep the revs not over 2k rpm and accelerate gently until the oil temperature gets to the bottom of the normal temp range, ~180⁰F. I have had the car since new and now have 67k miles on, following this procedure all the time. My oil is changed at 3k mile intervals and shows no drop on the dipstick at the end of the interval. I recently put a mechanical oil pressure gauge on the car and recorded the hot oil pressure at idle and at 2k rpm and got 30 psi and 60 psi respectively. Nissan's spec for this engine(VQ37VHR) is 14 psi at idle and 42 psi at 2k rpm. The engine also runs smoothly and quietly, with no valvetrain clicking or noise from the rod or main bearings. My judgement is that whatever I'm doing on this engine is not causing damage or excessive metal wear. By the way: I have run two used oil analysis reports done through Blackstone Labs, with low levels of wear metals in the used oil after 3k mile intervals.
What he called "Wierd" is exactly what I used to do here in Maine: Start and let idle for 5-10min, then go back out and shut off and return to my getting ready... Why? Let the heat radiate out to warm the whole engine compartment, even the c-v joints somewhat. Then when we were ready to leave, we could just hop in the car and go. Much better than 20+ min idling and allows for the Time it really takes for the whole assemblage to warm itself, so not really Wierd at all ~
I wait 10 seconds after firing up the engine before i drive. Interestingly! I can feel on the engine the ECU sending a different mixture of fuel and air compare to when it is warm already. The engine does not want to rev all that much as when it is warm. Once it reaches a certain temperature everything changes. Engine much more happy to rev higher, it has more power too. I think the engine "tells" you when it is warm enough. I mean the ECU knows best, right !?
If you care about your car and your wallet warm-up your engine....the colder the longer time it needs. Use two different types of oil for cold(0W under 0*C) and warm(5w) weather. During engine warm-up engine management use rich mixture until coolant reaches a certain temperature(~60*C) Oil viscosity is really bad for the engine when it's cold. Start up your engine and drive = a visit to the mechanic in a short matter of time. Oil is getting up in temperature way slower than coolant regardless that the oil-coolant heatexchanger is helping. Cold oil is not flowing well so it doesnt build safe pressure inside the main bearings and rod bearings and the crankshaft/conrod will scratch them. This phenomenon is even worse if you're starting to drive ... the force generated by the piston is huge and = faster wear.
I wait 30 seconds or until the revs drop before I go. If you haven't noticed, pretty much all modern engines idles pretty high and stays high for quite a while before it slowly drops down. Almost like it knows what it needs. All of that "damage" people try to avoid has already been done the moment you decided to turn on a cold engine and when I say cold, I mean any temperature below the operating temperature range of your engine. Starting your car up on a hot summer day is still cosidered cold unless its 190+ degrees out. It is almost completely unavoidable unless you somehow keep your oil and block warm at all times during the winter and during the summer.
In my old 5th gen prelude, it was an auto, yes I know they're known to break but if I didn't warm that car up fully in the winter, I would stall, IN MY AUTO at the first stop sign. I'd have to rev it to keep it going, for old beaten on ones I'd say let it warm up based of personal experience
Temperature from one spark event, which happens insanely frequently generates tons of heat. It does not take long for that heat to dissipate thru the whole engine so a few minutes at best no more then six (6) I'd say
I use the block heater below -12, and I just run it till the high idle goes down (2011 HEMI grand Cherokee) -25 or colder I’ll let it run for 5 minutes. Above -5C I let it idle for 10 seconds to let the oil get pumped through
I usually go when rpm drop to is close to 1k. Then I drive slow till temp goes up. When I reach highway I floor it. By time I'm near highway it's already warm almost half way 🔥
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once manufacturers recommend 15k oil intervals you can chuck all other advice from them into the garbage
Great point
I am glad I was changing the oil every 10-12k. I totaled the car long before this would caused any issues.
100%%%
Granted, the Manufacturers recommending 15k oil change intervals is mostly likely trying to comply with EPA guidelines, and reduce the amount of waste. Gotta remember that there a bigger body controlling what car manufacturers do.
My reason has nothing to do with the engine...I let mine warm up long enough to de-fog the windshield enough so I can see.
This is more important than anything else
Of my 27 years of driving in Northern Canada where we have -50ºC temperature extremes and mostly a constant -23ºC most of winter, No matter what people say, I always warm up my vehicle for a minimum of 20 minutes at these temps to make sure that everything is operational and my battery is getting topped up by the alternator. I need to make sure that my car won’t die in the middle of nowhere where windchill can cause life threatening conditions in minutes. I also find that after driving various brands from reliable Toyotas, BMW, GMC,Mercedes, LandRover, Honda and Mitsubishi that all of them have a lethargic feel on extreme cold. It seems that the gearbox is not up to temperature, the engine, driveline, diff, transfer case and etc. They all have that “friction feel and hesitation to accelerate” I don’t wanna push them hard without warming slowly as I wouldn’t want to risk a gasket leak or a cracked engine.
Well said.
Also works for thawing ice and snow. I don't scrape, I let the heater do it.
3rd gen 4Runner owner here. Talking abt the 3.4 v6, I let it warm until the idle drops. Sittin pretty at 350k.
Best generation 4Runner imo
Yes they don't shift up into 4th gear well when still cold. 95 yota
Agreed, that time is proportional with ambient temp.
Same here. Operating temperature is when the motor is most efficient. Not cooler nor hotter. Thermodynamics.
I always let my engine warm up for about 30-40 seconds before I drive off. It is not really about the engine but THE TRANSMISSION. The engine oil at 0W-20 is so thin that is not the problem. What needs slight warming and circulation is the transmission fluid. It's viscosity is much thicker than engine oil, so it needs a few seconds to circulate and warm to protect the transmission.
If you start your vehicle, put on your sunglasses, put on your seatbelt, observe everything around you, by the time you are done it has been 30 seconds.
That Dave's auto center guy really opened a can of worms on this one. Your explanation and viewpoint is the best I've heard on this topic. Personally and depending on the temp I do let my vehicle warm up to a degree.
I really appreciate that! I wasn't sure how this was gonna be received. Isn't that the guy that quoted a lady $18k to rebuild her Subaru? 😂
@@CanadianGearhead Not sure about the Subaru, I didn't see that one but 18k ouch.
@@CanadianGearheadMaybe. But that fact alone doesn't discredit Dave's knowledge of rebuilding engines and 40 years experience along with founding one of the largest engine rebuilders in the Western United States.
Dave is also giving advice on warming up modern diesel engines, not petrol
Dave is focused on diesel engines.
I let everything i own warm up, jeep, truck, quad, lawnmower, tractor, chainsaw, log splitter, weed eater, it's just common sense, when I lift weights I don't just go straight for 350 lbs, I warm up first so I don't hurt something
Do you warm up just idling sitting in a chair or with light loads and moderate movement? ;)
Lol your not made of metal that heats and expands at different rates.
@@tsd560ti6 Horrible argument. Sitting in a chair would be the equivalent to the car being off. When a car is idling, it is around 1 to 2k rpm.
@wymonwatson1309 You're right, we're made of meat that heats and expands at different rates.
@@tsd560ti6you also don't just take off and do deep warm-ups you build up to it....why would you want to drive without your oil up to temp
Summer, winter, wait 'till cold start revs drop and go.
Same, and for my car even in the summer on a cold start revs don't drop for a least 1 to 2 minutes.
💯🧐🫡Me too!
I've been installing remote starters for 34yrs now in southern Ontario. The main reason to remote start your car....is your own comfort. Secondary is to get snow/frost/ice started to melt.
I totally agree that it's just a matter of balance and how you treat your car and how you maintain your car. My personal belief is that a min or 2 is plenty b4 you drive off and don't hammer the gas till it's properly warmed up.
My personal practice is typically letting my remote start run for 15-20mins b4 I go is cuz I'm lazy old and a p***y and I like my car warmer when I go out in the cold.
Most accurate answer here
In the summers i wait till the idle comes down and during winters i wait for abt 2 to 3 mins for the engine to warm up snd then drive slowly till it reaches operating temperatures
Great video!! So many of the videos out there are clickbaiting BS:
"Oh you are literally destroying your car by idling it!"
"You only need to heat it up if it's carburated!"
"You are going to washdown your cylinders and blow your engine up!"
I've come to a similar conclusion: It really doesn't matter. I usually warm mine up in the winter because I prefer that my car isn't absolutely frigid while I drive it. Usually around 5-10 minutes. It shuts off on its own at the 15 minute mark so never longer than that.
Yes it's a waste of fuel, yes I'm putting wear on my starter (my 4runner shuts off when I open the door) but I really don't care.
Police cruisers idle for thousands and thousands of hours per year; I really don't think a little idling will destroy my car. I genuinely do think a big part of it is climate-agenda-based.
Thanks for watching!
Used to do exactly what you suggested for very cold climate start ups when I lived in ski country and made the car drive ready right after I started it. Good breakdown, I'll be watching here with great interest.
I'm pretty much like you. I live in a tiny town of NE Washington State. Regardless of weather, when I leave my house, I just wait for the RPMs to drop below1,000, and then drive gently, not letting the engine go over 2,500 until it's warmed up. But my work is right on a 50 MPH highway, so when I leave, I let it warm up for a few minutes in the winter, about a minute in the summer. 2010 Mazda 6 manual 140k miles. Burns zero oil. Also have a 15 GMC 2500 6.0 gas with 195k miles also burns zero oil.
This is another example of low-resolution thinking: Everything is all or nothing.
If you live next to a “fast” street where you are expected to be going 45 mph out of your driveway, let the car warm up on idle for a bit. If you live a mile back from the Main Street in a housing area with residential streets, you can start rolling immediately and let the car warm up that way. Use judgement.
For me ambient temperature determines warm up time. As well as who is riding with me. As you say kids or elderly I get the cab warmer.
Legit channel. Underrated but I expect that to change. Good stuff.
The reason for letting the the engine run for a few minutes is to get the fluids up from where they settled
and start performing there cooling and lubricateing functions. Fluids don't necessarily have to be warmed up,
it just helps.
Appreciate your no-nonsense analysis. Subscribed.
I've been daily driving my 2007 mazda3 in Saskatchewan since it was new. It gets really cold here. I don't have a long commute so it's fairly low milage but it's gone through a lot of heat cycles and still runs great with no drivetrain issues.
It's never been parked in a garage. I have an aftermarket remote starter that shuts off after 15 min. From About -10C to -20C I'll let it warm for 5 to 10 minutes. Below -20, I plug in the block heater and heated battery blanket and still let it warm up for 5 to 10 minutes.
On days that it's really cold (-30C and below), and I'm not some where that I'm able to plug in the block heater and battery blanket, I'll start it and let it time out and shut off on its own every so often like at lunch time at work. Dead batteries in -30 isn't fun. Cold starts at -30 is hard on everything. Even winter tires can get hard and shocks get a lot stiffer.
Great video on your thoughts I never warm mine up for any longer then 2 to 5 minutes but I'm in arizona our winter is never colder then 22 degrees for a month or so
I think older vehicles and turbos could benefit from a few minutes idling in cold temperatures. Once your cab is comfortable and your windshield is defrosted, you're good to go.
Lots of good points I agree on the points of manufacturing are saying not do it because they want to sell you another vehicle . They don't make money if a buyer is using the vehicle for 40 years
Dealerships make more money from service than they do selling cars. So that’s debatable
@lukasb8408 kinda what I was talking about hint was don't make money on buying vehicles when people keep there vehicles for 40 plus years
I lived in the North, my buddy had a nice Mazda B2200 truck with low mileage. His wife took it out in February at -40c and drove it hard down the road no warmup, it wiped all main bearings out on the engine in less than 5 minutes.
Thank you! 👍 Of my 27 years of driving in Northern Canada where we have -50ºC temperature extremes and mostly a constant -23ºC most of winter, No matter what people say, I always warm up my vehicle for a minimum of 20 minutes at these temps to make sure that everything is operational and my battery is getting topped up by the alternator. I need to make sure that my car won’t die in the middle of nowhere where windchill can cause life threatening conditions in minutes. I also find that after driving various brands from reliable Toyotas, BMW, GMC,Mercedes, LandRover, Honda and Mitsubishi that all of them have a lethargic feel on extreme cold. It seems that the gearbox is not up to temperature, the engine, driveline, diff, transfer case and etc. They all have that “friction feel and hesitation to accelerate” I don’t wanna push them hard without warming slowly as I wouldn’t want to risk a gasket leak or a cracked engine.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with this approach -- especially when heading out into serious winter conditions in a rural locale -- doubly so if both.
It's not necessarily only about your engine either -- it gives you a couple minutes to listen to your car, notice if you're driving on a flat tire or with nothing but fumes in the tank.
That said I keep my garage at 68° year round so I generally consider my 4Runner pre-warmed.
Im exactly with you. It all depends on the temp and stuff but typically anywhere from 15 seconds or so or for a few minutes. Seems to have worked for me and I’ve never had a problem yet. Also a lot of people that idle their vehicles to warm up for 20+ mintutes fail to realize that although your engine is now warm most of the other parts of your vehicle are still cold/frozen. A big one people never think about is your transmission temp.
Transmission will warm up with the engine.
You can tell because most cars if you take off immediately it will shift hard, but if you let it warm up it shifts fine. It's obvious.
I’m pretty much with you. What takes a while to get up to operating temperature is the oil. It takes at least five miles for the oil to get close to operating temperature and pressure. It makes the most sense to me to take it easy until then.
I'm still trying to decide what is best as far as the warm up. One video source described GM Hemi engines as an oil problem for the cam shafts if you idle for excessive amounts of time, the idea presented was that the cam shafts are too high for the pump to lube them good at idle. I personally like to warm up my Bronco for about 5 to 10 minutes when its cold. The thing just seems to work better and it is more comfortable for the driver. I agree with the overall comment that it is better to let the motor expand slowly and not to really give it excess throttle until coolant is up to temp. Thanks for a great video.
I currently own three vehicles that are carbureted, the key here is that the choke is set correctly, and the idle mixture is also set correctly and the plugs, wires, cap & rotor are all good as well as the air filter is clean, if that's good your good to go, but what I've seen done back in the day was as soon as winter came and the vehicle failed to start instead of recognizing that it needed tuned up they always set the choke so it doesn't close fully and adjust the idle mixture too rich so that your washing the cylinder walls with excessive fuel even after the choke opens, more engines had their lives cut short because of this that any other reason. The earlier engines didn't care how long you idled them, the newer engines like the hemi will starve the cam and lifters for oil unless you either increases the idle speed or upgrade to a high-volume oil pump. That said I let my newer hemis warm up for a minute or so in the dead of winter my earlies engines as long as they need to drop off high idle.
Good points. This is my winter ritual.
1) Start and let run for about 30 sec to get oil up top and to turbo.
2) Move to high idle at 1800 - 2k for 10 mins. Your high idle method/kit is up to you.
3) Take of high idle and go.
Remember..auto manufacturers are not the best source for care of their engines. Evidence? These are the same people that recommend 10k oil changes and put weak piston rings in. These are also the same people that designed engines that coke up in the intake (gdi). These are also the same people that design engines that run into varnish issues because they recommend conventional oil when their design clearly needed synthetic. Kinda like they are setting you up for failure on modern engines right?
Mine needs at least three mins of running before driving in the winter mornings. Otherwise does not want to shift into high gears. Revs high
I feel like the people telling us that you must start and immediately start driving, and not to idle are the same types of people that assured us the COVid vaccine was 100% effective.
This
You don’t gotta let it warm up. If you start your car on a 20 degree day and let it warm up. It’s the same as starting it on a 40 degree day and immediately driving. That warm up idle exists only for the catalytic converter to warm up
no one ever claimed the COVID vaccine was 100% effective
There is literally data showing oil lubricity vs temperature (it doesn’t change) and clearance calculation can be done as it’s simple metal expansion. The fact that you answer with “I feel” to a relatively simple engineering question is the real problem. No, an engine does not need to be warmed up, but you don’t want to overheat a valve or a piston as they will expand faster than their bores, though this risk goes away quickly after an engine start.
Nobody ever said it was 100% lol
I had a Toyota Prius plugin for 7 years. One of the genius details of that car was that you could turn it on and go right away. It would propel the car with the electric motors until the engine was warm enough,. Now I drive a Subaru, and I wait for the idle speed to drop before I start driving. Kind of annoying, but I want this thing to last a very long time.
Good stuff. There is one other factor that is rarely discussed and that is blow-by before the rings are up to temp, particularly in engines with low tension rings. If you increase internal cylinder pressure (by asking your car to make power) before the rings have sealed against the cylinder walls, the rich air fuel mixture can pass the rings and contaminate the oil.
Because of this, I believe a short 30 second warm up is prudent, then drive, but baby it until the engine comes up to normal operating temp.
Engine size also determines warm up time and if it's stick vs auto.. coming from a 2L to a 1.6L turbo stick if it's cold out -23°C or below the smaller engine just doesn't build any heat unless you drive it.. even with a block heater but it does sounds alot better when it's plugged in and doesn't stay in super high idle for long before dropping down to regular high idle.. the turbo engine also limits boost first at super high idle after that max boost only if the temp gauge is at 1/4.. for short trip extreme cold still warm up for abit to combat that i change the oil every 6 months regardless of mileage could be 1600 kilo.. dump it..
On a cold day, i like to warm up for a few minutes to get the cabin warm. On a not so cold day, 30 seconds or so will do it.
I have been always warming up all my cars (including my current T4R v8) like you do. Simpy allowing for the oil pump to flow some liquid from the oil pan to the head(s) and lubricate the valvetrain, and let the rpms drop below 1000
🍁🍁 Canada 1) Most people don't have the luxury of an electrical source to use a block heater! 2) Warming up a vehicle for a minimum of five minutes is crucial for both the engine and the transmission! 3) The bonus is that hopefully, the Cab will warm up too and avoiding the glass frosting over!
In my case, I have an Auto-Start system. If I am distracted, and so as to not waste too much fuel, it shuts down/off at fifteen minutes.
At >26 years old with just under 300,000Klm's, it doesn't burn oil (or very minuscule amount)!
I used to change "premium oil and filter" twice per year. In the last several years, just once per year. BUT I always monitor my fluids regularly. I do a mixed City/Highway driving.
😎😎
It's like arguing about what beer is best. Everyone has an opinion. How cold is cold? In the warmer months, I go with number two and idle down the road. if it's really frozen with lots of snow I give it two minutes while I take off the sheet on my windshield and scrape off any ice then take off.
1999 Lexus LX470 (100 series Land Cruiser) with 295,000 miles (475k km) V8 2UZFE and in mint situation still with no rust and here in Ontario. I always let it warm up for 90 seconds to 2 mins minimum and that is in my garage. And then have a covered warm drive for a bit as I exit outside. Always nice and slow. In Ontario Winter if parked outside, if in freezing temps, I will let it warm up for 3 plus minutes if it has been sitting there for hours/ overnight. If it was driven before and not sitting in freezing temps for a while then maybe will warm up a little shorter as it probably is still warm inside. I don't care about how cold it is inside the vehicle, the engine and whats best for it, the transmission and differentials matters for me. Unless i have my three kids under 3 in the vehicle with me :) But I have obd sensor readings going to my carplay head unit and can read the temperatures for all sensors and I watch that also. So far warming this car up for 25 years has clearly made it last for 475,000 km and have opened up the engine and all looks very clean still. Will continue doing this. Just found your channel, liking it. Thanks!
My unscientific non mechanic method.
Current daily driver 2023 4Runner.
Above freezing and not in a rush.
30 second for me to put on my seatbelt gather thought look for traffic.
Below freezing - remote start a few minutes before I put on shoes and walk out.
This is general rule of thumb but my day is not made or broken by it. If I’m in a rush it is what it is.
My 2003 Tacoma bought new in my 20s with 360k had every imaginable circumstance. She still runs great…. May die from rust eventually.
Toyota manual in other countries. Temps above freezing you're good to go if driving gently with a 10W30 or below viscosity by waiting about 10 seconds assuming the idle is correct.
32 degrees to 0, give it a few minutes.
below 0 and the suggestion is to allow the idle time to level off and to remove all condensation before gently driving.
Notice they don't give a set anount of minutes. Only in America does this advice change. Infact all Toyota engines can run 5W30 as a viscosity, America doesn't list that and they aren't actually changing the engine from continent to continent. But 5W30 is not ideal if you are regularly below -10F in the morning.
I think that the issue is common sense isn't as common as it once was.
5W30 even synthetic is not great at tempatures above 85 degrees, does it work, yes? But up to 100 degrees 10W30 flows just as well in the summer and assuming you have the bearing clearances and temperatures ambient exceed 100F you can use a 10W40 as long as the engine oil is changed out before winter.
The main issue is people don't like constantly changing viscosity oil in the engine and they don't change it every three months to account for rhe change in weather.
So you have to idiot proof recommendations. Also newer oil such as 0W8 heats up much faster in the engine then let's say a 5W30 or a 10W30. Let alone vehicles that have engine blocks to warm up in the morning.
An engine block heater would be ideal to reduce wear and teae but good luck getting people who are willing to use it.
Hence a combination of EPA with emissions, and general human laziness. It also looks better on paper to reduce the cost of ownership even if it isn't what is best for the vehicle.
It depends on the humidity too. Clean/Defog your Windows before driving. Even in the summer windows can get foggy and sunrise blind you. Turbo especially needs to be warmed up before flooring it.
I roll as soon as the windows defog then drive gently until optimal temperature. You can drive below the speed limit especially with kids crossing the street to the bus stop.
'92 Jeep XJ here, 4.0 HO motor.
I let it warm up 10 minutes at any temperatures under 50*F, longer if it's colder. Usually until at least until the coolant hits temperature and the thermostat opens up; oil pressure stays under 65psi on the highway this way (excessive oil pressure does NOT mean good lubrication), and about 40psi at hot idle.
Yeah, it isn't nice on the wallet, but I can say that 33 year old motor doesn't burn oil, and runs quiet after hitting op temps. 5w30 for California winters, 5w40 in summer, 0w30 if I'm gonna be anywhere with temperatures under 30*F. Still running strong, still getting about 22mpg out of the thing (computed during fillups at the pump).
Oh, and change your oil every 3-5k miles, I give zero f**ks what the manufacturer says nowadays. Most motor oils lose their additive pack at that point, which is part of what's killing the modern low-displacement, turbo charged motors. They get sludged, are already dealing with high demands of the metal itself dye to forced induction. Granted, things are made differently nowadays from an engineering standpoint, but there's also a reason so many vehicles from the to the mid-00s are still on the road, and a lot of new vehicles end up with major engine failures before they hit 200k miles.
Same here!! 1992 XJ 4.0! Regular oil changes and not flooring it until its warmed up! I'll start it, then go about getting things for work, so it gets 1-3 minutes of idle, then drive gently until it warms up. Runs great, doesn't burn oil, BUT it is loud when it's cold 😂
Yes I think you nailed it mate. Not all situations are the same and you should adjust accordingly to weather, type of vehicle and other factors.
I live in Australia and we have hot summers and mild winters with morning temperature still often getting to down to around 1 degrees Celsius in winter. I drive a turbo diesel pick up and what i do is different depending on the situation. I live a on major highway that is on a steep long hill. If i need to go north (which is up the hill) I will warm the engine up for a few minutes but i high idol it after about 30 seconds (hold down the accelerator to around 2k rpm which still basically has no load on the engine and creates a couple of psi of positive boost pressure). The water temp is still pretty cold after high idling for a couple of minutes but will read about 45c water temp on the obd readout when I feel comfortable heading off up the hill. If im am travelling south (downhill) I get in and drive after how ever long it takes to open the front gate (~30-40 seconds). It is basically idling down the hill anyway while driving so taking off straight away is acceptable in that case in my opinion. I do the same in summer but takes half the time to reach my predetermined 45c - 50c water temp i like to reach before going up the long big hill.
Now if i listened to all these mechanics and engineers that say to not warm your engine up "just get in and drive normally" Id likely have far more wear on my engine and turbo in my situation living on a massive long hill. I am basically on the hill and full throttle through the gears with full boost to get up to speed. I dont care what anybody says that isnt good to do on a stone cold engine.
Great points made in this video. Well done. Thank you.
After years of driving in Eastern Ontario winters, I've always waited for the car to blow warmish air before getting underway. It usually takes a couple minutes but it seems to work. I've put hundreds of thousands of miles on my cars and never had an engine issue.
Worked on radisl aircraft egines in the service .You did not make a move until oil temp cyl head temp was up to normal.In really cold weather metals do strange things ,like crack,break etc.Warm it up!
Thought this might be interesting, I own a 2001 Sequoia with the same 2UZ engine (albeit non vvti variant) my owners manual says the same thing as in your MR2 manual to warm it up a few minutes below freezing. I do the same thing as you do in that when it's really cold I give it probably about 5-7 minutes or when the coolant temperature needle starts to move. All I know is that after 245k miles, my engine is running excellent. However, this is only for the iron block, aluminum head 2UZ, in my All aluminum 07 ES350, I find it best to just give it about 1-2 minutes as it heats up much faster and I'm not as worried about different thermal expansion rates.
Same. I agree. Have a 1999 Lexus LX470 (100 series Toyota Land Cruiser) with 295,000 miles, 2UZFE V8 also. I will warm it up 2-3 mins or so and after 25 years it is still going strong with original transmission, differentials and engine. Opened up engine and all still looking very clean. I also change my engine oil every 6 months AND also use conventional 5w-30 toyota still. And it has worked just fine in freezing temps for 25 years in East coast US and now Canada. Fortunately no rust still. Even all my suspension is still orginal and finally now about to replace one lower ball joint.
One of the best takes on this subject. Somewhere in the middle !
Thanks for watching!
Manufacturers have the EPA to deal with, 10k-15k oil chg intervals. That also could influence their advice.
Also important, is how far are you going to drive? My regular errands (retired), Grocery store/pharmacy/post office are all within 5 minute drive each. If I just drive away without warmup in winter, to run my errands on a regular basis then I have two issues:
1: It basically never reaches full operating temperature, my errands are very short distance and short distance between them. So it doesn't run enough to fully warm up. But If I start with decent warm-up, then it can reach proper operating temperature while running errands. But even then I may leave it locked and running on short errands.
2: A bunch of very short trips isn't enough to charge battery, so it just gets run down, but if I let it warm up and run at short errands, it gets enough charge to stop the battery running down.
OTOH, If I'm driving 20 minutes to the next town, then I often just drive away with minimal warmup, because the engine will have plenty of time to fully warm up, and the battery time to charge.
While I don't think either warming it up, or driving away after seconds is inherently harmful, I do think it's better to warm it up if you are doing constant very short trips like I am, because otherwise it will seldom actually get fully warmed up.
I always let idle my 2013 Toyota Corolla for about 1-2 minutes depending on the outside temperature.. It still drives like a dream with almost 287K miles on the clock..
nice video as always!
I'm a mechanic, and while I haven't done any real testing (not even sure how one would construct a scientific test for this), I'm right there with you. My gas truck I usually let idle only 30 seconds or so, and only when it's cold. My diesel I definitely like to warm up when it's cold out. It makes weird noises if you don't. In summer I basically start, let it idle until the engine smooths out (not usually more than 10 seconds), and take off.
The biggest thing is exactly what you said. Take it easy until it's warm. Idle or drive gently, probably doesn't matter which. Just don't be out there hotrodding it 10 seconds after a 0*F start.
It doesn’t need to be totally warm but an extra 3-5 minutes in freezing temps gets the thermostat open quicker and coolant circulation through the heater core faster, which of course eliminates those pesky iced or fogged windows. I have an 01 gs300 that has an unreal heater, it’s warm in like 2 minutes and hot in less than 5, it’s a freak.
Subaru wrx owner here.
I monitor my oil temperature on my Cobb Accessport. Usually, around 60 degrees, I'll start driving.
If I'm going on the highway, I let it warm up around 113 degrees so the turbo can work more efficiently at high speeds.
I believe it's about viscosity index especially when running a zero w20 oil. I wait until my oil sump is at 80° before I start driving because when I look at the viscosity index as opposed to the temperature of the oil
You gotta wait for oil pressure to build and the oil to become more viscous so it can flow through all the galleries and bearings. Also, when its cold and you drive it, its better to have slightly higher rpm than low rpm because otherwise the load on the bearings is way high.
My 100,000 mile Audi 4 cylinder turbo gets about thirty seconds, long enough for the engine to idle down, before driving off gradually. My 300,000 mile Envoy (Winter beater) gets a few minutes, and I keep revs around 2,000 RPM max until OD engages. (Live in Ontario as well).
I hit the remote start about 5 minutes before I walk out the door with the defrost set on high and the heat turned all the way up. I also back in the drive when I get home so I'm not shifting to reverse and then drive at 1:30 in the morning when I leave for work. My pickup is a little loud so short idle and less shifting and accelerating while stuff is still cold. Good for truck and neighbor relations.
I start my engine up in 20F weather, and then I immediately drive to work in 4th gear so that it warms up faster. On my lunch break, I leave it in third gear so its warmed up all the way before I get back to the building. She purrs like a kitten, never seen a short trip.
I'm not sure why there is no objective evidence. Tear down an engine that's only done long warm ups, tear down a no warm up engine and examine. No one ever mentions the piston gaps of turbo or supercharged engines. They aren't the same as an NA engine. My own anecdote in that my higher mileage Subaru has been warmed up and has worked for me an my engine. I think a turbo car should have a bit more of a warm up. With a cold manual trans it can take a long time for trans fluid to thin up and shift smoothly. I always take it easy until oil temp not coolant temp is pretty high.
A lot of modern cars don't fire up immediately because they build some oil pressure by cranking over a few times first. They are not just spraying fuel willy nilly either. I have seen no issue with a few minutes of warm up then drive easy until oil is up to temp. Especially when its cold there is a lot a metal and rubber expanding seems to me a gentle warm up makes sense. Is that really controversial?
Yeah it's really strange that we haven't seen any tests like that. Like you say, it wouldn't be very difficult to do
I have a 2006 Honda element. I have never let it idle for more than 30 seconds in the winter time and I live in Ontario. I just take it easy at the beginning of the drive ,it has 560,000 km.
I live at 10,000 feet, and the average nightly winter temps are between -10 and 10 degrees F. I will start up my car, brush off the snow, Deice my windshield, which takes around 5-10 minutes, and then the car is ready to go. I do not warm up my car for 20 minutes. Warm up the car for 5-10 minutes and just drive gently until the cold indicator light shuts off which is usually after about a minute or two of driving at 25-30 mph.
Some people will just let their cars idle for 30 minutes, and I think that has to do more with letting the inside heat up than warming up the car. Cold weather doesn't bother me. As long as the windshield is defrosted, I don't care whether the car is cold inside or not
I do my best to wait till the RPMs drop a bit before I take it into gear and drive softly. I used to warm up for a very long time in the winter, I will do that NO MORE!
It's funny because I think of this all the time... I have a 4th gen v8. I live in Alberta and have a garage in which the inside temp is typically around 0-4 degrees in winter. I idle for about 25 seconds in neutral and then drive off. It may be overkill but oh well : )
Nothing wrong with doing what feels right to you!
My 2001 Lexus actually says in the manual to let it warm up in cold weather so there’s that, and many older BMW’s must be warmed up before you Rev them out so my tip is don’t over Rev / drive crazy fast regardless untill it’s warm
I let my ‘04 Lexus RX330 warm up for 3-4 minutes when it’s 32 or below. Still kicking!
My sedan is a hybrid and has an electric heater so it requires little warm up time to heat the cabin, but my 18 year old Land Cruiser with 248k miles needs a little warm up when it’s 20f in winter.
Having lived in the interior of Alaska for a very long lifetime, we warm the car up , not the engine. The interior must be warm enough so the windows do not fog while occupants are inside breathing. Visibility is a safety issue. Warmth is a necessity, heat is irritating but cold is debilitating. To summarize, cars are idled for interior conditioning so driving is possible, the engine and transmission follow.
I use a block heater, but I still let my car idle for 30 seconds to 1 minute as I get situated in the car with my seatbelt, dash camera, mirror check etc. and I drive the car gently for the first 5 miles until the transmission warms up.
It would be nice if there were options for drivetrain heaters beyond just the engine. EVs have the option to condition the battery but that still does not heat up any of the moving parts. I remember seing that for artic expeditions they never turned the vehicles off.
Winter we idle until it's nice & cozy warm, summer until it's nice & chilly 🥰
I have an older vehicle & I personally wait for my hi idle to drop; Sometimes it’s a couple minutes sometimes 5 or more up here in Canada. They made it easy back then. Each vehicles different.
I always wait like 20 seconds or so, until when the idle revs down a bit, regardless of summer or winter. Not really to warm up, but to wait for the oil to fully circulate the engine before I put any load on the engine.
If the car is freezing, I’ll let it warm up more, maybe 5 minutes, because the continuous variable transmission seems to not want to upshift out of bottom gear until the transmission fluid warms up a bit
Here's what I got from my search. AI Overview: While it's generally considered a good practice to let your car run for a brief period in cold weather, most modern cars do not require extensive idling to warm up, and a short 30 seconds to a minute is usually sufficient before driving in winter; extended idling can actually be wasteful and harmful to your engine. I drive a 2016 Toyota Camry SE, in the winter I let run until the idle drops, however if I have snow on the car or frost on the windows I'll wait until I clean it off. And that's about 2/3 minutes to clean off the snow or frost.
You cant go by your user manual for newer cars since there made to be disposable now for most manufacturers thats why most of them tell you you dont have to change your transmission fluid for a hundred k or the life of the car! No fluid will last that long not all of them say that but too many. I let my car warm up in the winter until the heat is enough so i can see out the windshield in the summer 2 or 3 minutes once the hi idle is off but if you dont want your car to last go drive it into a tree in the winter or buy a hemi and let it idle all day like the police do and then you wont get 100k out of it lol you can't idle hemis kills the cam's!!!!
Theyre just dodge pos
@rabidbeaver167 yea was just trying to be nice about it people get so defensive when they get screwed on junk and try to defend them. I used to be a dodge fan up until the 90s when they got really bad
The only thing is that if the engine isn't up to normal operating temperature, you shouldn't push it as hard. For most people and normal driving you'll be fine, but if you're banging the rev limiter right after a cold start you will increase wear and possibly break things.
I’ve always let it run till it idles down and don’t push it until it hits operating temp. I know for my 2021 RAV4 specifically it starts and runs around 1500rpm fo a minute or so to get everything flowing before idling down to 700ish rpm. It takes a few minutes to get everything setup radio and climate anyway. Then again I live in Texas so we rarely get snow or freezes that bad just a failing power grid.
My Lil cx30 has a few marks on the temp guage and I just take it easy till it passes the first mark.
dont you think your engine would warm up a lot quicker if you know... you got it got hotter? just drive it at low rpms for 5 minutes to loosen up the oil before red lining it; no need to let it warm up while stationary unless its below freezing
Warming engines up was needed Back in the 70s and before For carborated engines vs Fuel Injection warming engines up dosent really apply to fuel injected engines
It's just my preference to let mine warm up about 2-5 minutes. I basically start my vehicle and go back inside kiss my wife goodbye and pet my dog one more time and pour my coffee into my thermos and head out. This practice also stems from my twenty years driving a carbureted truck. (1999-2021) Just my preference, but I lean towards the mindset that giving my engine just a few minutes to warm up is easier on it than immediately driving and the engine having to rev 2k-3k RPM without any warm up. Y'all do what you want to. I'll waste a few sips of gas to give mine a couple minutes to warm up. 😂
My 67 caprice has it's factory quadrajet carburetor with a manual choke. Of course that needs to warm up. But any modern car gets as much time as i takes everyone to get in and sometimes put seat belts on before I'm leaving.
I think warming up the engine is better for it. The block, heads, exhaust ect. warm up slowly and make it easier on the gaskets.
This is the way I think of it: would you run a race without stretching first? The warm up is the stretching.
Let's be honest, the answer varies widely. Where it might be ok for me to hop in my 2023 Gladiator and go, I wouldn't do the same to my dad's 76 Olds 442. I will say this as a guy that lived about half his life in Colorado.....get a damn block heater. Plug it in when you get home. When you get in in the morning the water temp is perfect for safer starting, will heat the motor quicker, and most of all you'll immediately have heat to stay warm lol
Usually I start, waiting until the RPM drops (during summer it is quickly, winter - might take up to 0.5-1 mint) and then driving 5 minutes slow to warm up the rest of the car, especially cold transmission
I don't think that extended idling will damage the engine in a modern computer-controlled, closed-loop EFI system. In my Nissan 370Z, I let the engine idle on a cold start until the coolant gets up to temp which takes about 4 minutes; the block and heads are all-aluminum which heat up pretty quickly. I then take off gently, keep the revs not over 2k rpm and accelerate gently until the oil temperature gets to the bottom of the normal temp range, ~180⁰F.
I have had the car since new and now have 67k miles on, following this procedure all the time. My oil is changed at 3k mile intervals and shows no drop on the dipstick at the end of the interval. I recently put a mechanical oil pressure gauge on the car and recorded the hot oil pressure at idle and at 2k rpm and got 30 psi and 60 psi respectively. Nissan's spec for this engine(VQ37VHR) is 14 psi at idle and 42 psi at 2k rpm. The engine also runs smoothly and quietly, with no valvetrain clicking or noise from the rod or main bearings.
My judgement is that whatever I'm doing on this engine is not causing damage or excessive metal wear. By the way: I have run two used oil analysis reports done through Blackstone Labs, with low levels of wear metals in the used oil after 3k mile intervals.
If people want to know for sure have them take off the oil fill cap and smell inside the engine or under the fill cap.
What he called "Wierd" is exactly what I used to do here in Maine: Start and let idle for 5-10min, then go back out and shut off and return to my getting ready...
Why? Let the heat radiate out to warm the whole engine compartment, even the c-v joints somewhat.
Then when we were ready to leave, we could just hop in the car and go.
Much better than 20+ min idling and allows for the Time it really takes for the whole assemblage to warm itself, so not really Wierd at all ~
I wait 10 seconds after firing up the engine before i drive. Interestingly! I can feel on the engine the ECU sending a different mixture of fuel and air compare to when it is warm already. The engine does not want to rev all that much as when it is warm. Once it reaches a certain temperature everything changes. Engine much more happy to rev higher, it has more power too. I think the engine "tells" you when it is warm enough. I mean the ECU knows best, right !?
If you care about your car and your wallet warm-up your engine....the colder the longer time it needs.
Use two different types of oil for cold(0W under 0*C) and warm(5w) weather.
During engine warm-up engine management use rich mixture until coolant reaches a certain temperature(~60*C)
Oil viscosity is really bad for the engine when it's cold.
Start up your engine and drive = a visit to the mechanic in a short matter of time.
Oil is getting up in temperature way slower than coolant regardless that the oil-coolant heatexchanger is helping.
Cold oil is not flowing well so it doesnt build safe pressure inside the main bearings and rod bearings and the crankshaft/conrod will scratch them. This phenomenon is even worse if you're starting to drive ... the force generated by the piston is huge and = faster wear.
I wait 30 seconds or until the revs drop before I go. If you haven't noticed, pretty much all modern engines idles pretty high and stays high for quite a while before it slowly drops down. Almost like it knows what it needs. All of that "damage" people try to avoid has already been done the moment you decided to turn on a cold engine and when I say cold, I mean any temperature below the operating temperature range of your engine. Starting your car up on a hot summer day is still cosidered cold unless its 190+ degrees out. It is almost completely unavoidable unless you somehow keep your oil and block warm at all times during the winter and during the summer.
In winter, turn on the engine and once your windshield is clear of moisture, then send it. In summertime fire up the engine and go.
"Normally" we got 50F, 60F, even 70F in the winter here in Houston. So I "normally" don't warm up the engine. LOL.
In my old 5th gen prelude, it was an auto, yes I know they're known to break but if I didn't warm that car up fully in the winter, I would stall, IN MY AUTO at the first stop sign. I'd have to rev it to keep it going, for old beaten on ones I'd say let it warm up based of personal experience
I let mine warm up with the defroster on to clear the windshield as much as possible.
Temperature from one spark event, which happens insanely frequently generates tons of heat. It does not take long for that heat to dissipate thru the whole engine so a few minutes at best no more then six (6) I'd say
I idle mine for for atleast 15min in the winter. Nice and warm when you get in.
I do it; one out of habit. Ever start a 7.3l and try to go right after on a cold day? Or a ford 460? And 2 to defog the vehicle.
I use the block heater below -12, and I just run it till the high idle goes down (2011 HEMI grand Cherokee) -25 or colder I’ll let it run for 5 minutes. Above -5C I let it idle for 10 seconds to let the oil get pumped through
I usually go when rpm drop to is close to 1k. Then I drive slow till temp goes up. When I reach highway I floor it. By time I'm near highway it's already warm almost half way 🔥