Mechanical Engineer here. I always warm any cold engine at least 20-30 seconds before driving regardless of outdoor temperature to allow for good oil circulation and thermal expansion of the metal parts to happen so that design clearances are obtained prior to applying a load (driving). Modern oils aren't a major issue down to pretty cold temperatures, viscosity wise, but the amount of oil between bearing surfaces (as a designed system) is dependent on proper clearances which is highly dependent on the engine reaching design temperature. That is why you shouldn't "drive hard" with a cold engine. With proper lubrication, all loads are borne by the oil and not any metal to metal contact. Most wear occurs during startup in modern engines. Or more realistically, due to improper maintenance or operation.
As an engineer, you are aware that there is a vast difference between driving hard after a cold start and gently starting off and remaining gentle on the throttle until the operator can see some movement on the temp gauge or feel some heat from the vents. This is such nonsense. At this point the "debate" should be well settled, because it has been the subject of so much professional research and testing, many decades and many millions of dollars. It is only those who think they know better than all those technicians and their findings that continue "debating".
I've personally seen a motor that was taken apart that was started and saw that it took the oil less than a second to completely flood the motor. Plus, based on my experience on starting my vehicle and driving off, regardless of the temperature, it has never resulted in any major problems in the last 8 years I've had my car. Back in the day, warming them up made sense with the carburetors, but now it's not necessary.
My 1990 Pontiac Sunbird's engine absolutely ran better after letting it idle two minutes (and switched from closed loop to open loop operation). Even the manufacturers know to control the startup procedure manually (through computer software programming) prior to allowing the sensor inputs to dictate how the engine's running. So I let mine idle even longer to warm up. I don't do that for my 2002 Subaru, though. I've yet to determine exactly why it performs so much better, but I'm assuming (presently) that it has to do with the aluminum block and superior systems, etc.
My friend used to drive the old style VW bugs. His theory was start the engine, light a joint, smoke it about half way while the engine warmed up, then take off.
Lol. Y'know I think there may actually be a chapter on that in "How to Keep your Volkswagen Alive" by the late John Muir. Still a great read 40+ years after selling my bug.
Subaru tech from Canada here. To all my forged piston owners: warm up to operating temperature is a must! as the alloys used in high performance pistons have higher thermal expansion and the motor is built with larger piston to wall clearances and if you drive on a cold piston it will slap and WILL cause the damage to cylinders mentioned in this video. As for stock piston the car can be driven in 1-2 minutes after starting but MUST be driven extremely gently under 1/2 throttle and very low rpm, if you cannot discipline yourself to drive that way or you end up on the highway right away after starting warm up is a must.
I have a 2013 stl with 100% stock engine. It’s originally from Canada. Anyways I always had block heater plugged in. Probably outta ignorance, I never drive it. It has summer tires on, so I unplug batter tender and block warmer and try and get outta my drive and fail multiple times because of ice and snow, incline with gravel. Anyways the cluster now indicates the engine is running hot or too hot to turn over. I’m wondering if I smoked my engine or just the thermostat. I’m more than a little nervous
@brentschulz6490 It's interesting, I work like 3 minutes away from work, and lately, we've been getting -25 to -29 in Ottawa, and the windshield is frozen and all Icy. to warm up the windshield on the 2021 crosstrek, it covers a small area. Meanwhile, my g37, the heat will warm up a bigger area. I have spoken to a friend, and he recommend to have the block heater plugged in either on a timer like 1h before I leave for work or get a starter.
Depending on the weather conditions - WITH MY CAR PARKED OUTSIDE - I have always warmed up the engines in varying amounts of time. I will always start the engine before I clean off the car so it can help me melt the ice on the windshield. Also, my automatic transmissions are more sensitive to colder temperatures than my manual transmissions, so this is an issue. I like the idle speed to start dropping before I put my auto trans car into gear, but I usually only warm up my cars a couple of minutes if my windshield is clear. As far as engine damage is concerned, I've never suffered any of this in any of my cars. When the heads are off, I always take pictures of my like new appearing engines so I can prove to others why regular oil changes WITH premium brand full synthetic oil is necessary. My exhaust pipe tips are gray because of no oil consumption. Bottom line: Fossil fuel powered engines only require a minimal amount of warm up, BUT should never be driven hard until the temperature gauge says it is OK. Automatic transmissions are more susceptible to extra "wear and tear" if not warmed at least a little bit. Scheduled maintenance with proper fluids and parts is critical. Top Tier fuels are critical for "runability" in all situations, especially with the new DGI engines and super high powered fuel injectors. Common Sense applies here. I refuse to comment on EV's. They have no place in my life unless they are golf carts.
I am 71 years old. I have maintained a lifelong habit of letting my engine warm up for at least five minutes. I never start to drive while the engine is at high idle. I regularly get 300,000 to 500,000 miles (or more) out of a car. I have never paid for an engine overhaul.
Environmentalist wackos trying to tell you what to do. Is it not your car? Firestone is not an authority. This should be a tip. Don’t get me started on my experience with those shops.
@@2020Animations I started out with a used Plymouth Fury (1962) that had 99,000 miles on a broken odometer for three years when I bought it. I drove it 1,000 miles per week for two years before I gave it away. Its new owner drove it for several years before it fell apart---total mileage unknown, probably over 400,000 miles. My first new car was a 1973 Toyota Corolla Sedan. I got just over 300,000 miles out of it before it fell apart. (Yes, those were hard miles.) I had a 1980 Toyota Tercel that went over 400,000 miles. I had a Saturn SL-1 (1993) that went just shy of 700,000 miles, with one new clutch at about 390,000 miles. I wish I could buy another one. I had a 2002 Ford Mustang Coupe (6 cylinder) that went almost 350,000 before my daughter totaled it. I loved that car. I had a 2013 Ford Edge that I traded in at 150,000 miles because I was afraid of the tranny going bad. The engine ran A-1. Along the way, I had a used (98,000 miles) Pontiac Bonneville (2003) that went to 350,000 miles before I sold it. It was running fine when I let it go. The Bonneville rode very nicely under all road conditions. I wish I could buy another one. I also had an Infiniti G35-X (2004, the AWD version.) that went just over 300,000 miles before we traded it. It did not ride quite as smoothly as the Bonneville but ran like a cheetah and handled like it was on rails. Brakes were superb---but had to be replaced (pads and rotors) every 15,000 miles, along with the tires. It ate brakes and tires no matter how gently we drove it but it sure was fun to drive.
I'm not a mechanic, nor an engineer. Just a girl who loves her Subaru. But I did grow up working on cars and I do understand a bit about engines. I live in CO and I have always let my cars warm up at least until my RPMs drop. To me it's just common sense. It seems like that is the car's way of signaling that it's reached operating temperature and is ready to go. Can't imagine we wouldn't have heard about this long ago if it was a legitimate issue. Thanks for another great video!
My BRZ idles for a minute or two before the rpm drops, by then I know the car's good to go but I always give it a tad longer to be safe, I live in Arizona and I do this always not to mention
I've driven in Canada for well nigh 50 years now. From a stone cold engine in the morning, I've always let the engine warm up a bit while I scrape the windows and brush off the snow. You need a bit of heat in the cooling system to prevent your windows fogging up. Also it certainly doesn't hurt to let the oil warm up a bit for better lubrication before you hit the road, modern viscosities not withstanding. I've put 295,000 km (180,000 miles) on my current vehicle without any issues.
You can actually hear how helpful the warm up is when it’s -25 outside, plus as you said you can’t see shit when the inside of the windows freeze and the defrosters r still shooting cold air
@@philpyung4831 Most persons are not going jump into a car in -10deg C or colder and start driving, unless they are pressed for time (and that can be a hazard). Most Canadians are going to start the car, and while the car is warming up (engine & cabin), they clear the snow/ice from the windows or wait....Also as the poster indicated if we start to drive before the car actually warms up it becomes a hazard. The windows fog up and you cant see jack.....When I just moved to Canada I didn't know that and tried what you suggest...had to pull over and wait or risk hitting someone or something. Nah let that oil burn. 245,000+ km and counting.
I am in Québec . As you are aware I think Ms. Winter is harsher out here . I scrape the ice then get into the car and drive at around 20-40 kms it does not take long before the engine is warm and you can feel it then increase my speed never had any problems as such.
I am in Canada, and I use the electric block heater to keep the block warm, saves fuel by the engine going off fast idle a lot sooner, and the cabin warms up faster as well.
@@izyb6608 hmm, I did a search and cannot find anyone that knows where a stock heater plug would be, people make it sound like every engine has a place for one I dont think that mine does. This did give me an idea though, I am more worried about my transmission, seeing I am at 260k miles. So I am going to get one of those adhesive heater units like 1000w and stick it to the transmission housing where the oil might be, have it so I can disconnect and connect somewhat easy through the hood etc and have it on at night in the winter
Yikes... so the "experts" in that article say that putting load/strain on a cold engine won't hurt it. But at the same time, they tell us (in the next paragraph 5:53) that driving a cold engine under load will hurt the engine until the blue light goes away... as you're driving under load as per their advice. But idling it (which is the exact opposite of driving under load) will hurt it as well. What.
Great video. I've lived all my life in Maine. Drove 3 Outbacks and now driving my fantastic 2022 Forester Wilderness. I've never had a heated/insulated garage, so when it's cold I start the car, clean the snow off my car and then check that the little blue light has gone out. Been doing this for 30 years and never an issue. Warming up your vehicle in the cold is just good practice.
I made a big investment and had a petrol heater installed in my 2014 Forester XT. Living in Sweden, it is a nice feeling to have a warm engine and cabin before taking off when it's well below 0 degrees Fahrenheit :)
I've been arguing this my whole life, some people think I'm only letting the car warm up to heat the cab, some think I'm just wasting time and "it'll warm up faster if I drive". I had a girlfriend go on her phone before, and think she debunked me warming up my engine, because of the same nonsense like at the start of the video. I take good care of my cars. I keep them clean, on time with oil changes, and I grew up waiting for engines to warm up. I'm not about to change that. I have never had engine trouble before. Everything I ever drove went close to or above 300 thousand miles. Being in the northeast it's usually that the car rots out around me with a strong engine still in it. No matter what though, it's *MY* car, so I do what I want. They don't pay for repairs, i do. They can beat on theirs however they want. If I don't ask for their advice it's because I don't want it.
Yeah....reading the manual is better than asking the mechanics at the dealership they just tell you to go ahead and drive it. Ya don't have to wait until the light goes out.
I agree with your opinion completely. FYI my 1999 Subaru outback 30 anniversary currently has 1.19 million miles on it I attributed to two things. As we put most of the miles on it in Northern Vermont we always warmed our engine up number two I have always done regular maintenance on it and when one item goes I replaced the other one also such as a CV joint or shocks anything that comes in pairs or quads. The first thing we did when we bought our new Subaru was literally driving to a remote start installation service and installed a aftermarket remote start and I had them set the runtime at the longest interval which is about 15 minutes. On cold days we make sure to park it with the heat and all defrosters on and let it time out when we remote start it at 15 minutes. Sometimes we even run it through two cycles. The car has survived temperatures of -42 not wind chill in Northern Vermont. Now we live in Central Indiana but whenever the temperature goes below 32 we always use the remote start and have a nice warm running car to get into which I should add is also safe because it is fully de-iced. I enjoy your videos very much thank you. I am 71 years old and still enjoy working on our Subarus are more recent Subaru is a 2010 outback. Much lower quality than our 99 Subaru however with proper care and maintenance and of course remote start on cold weather we consider it our low mileage Subaru with only 256,000 mi on it :-)
Great story Philip, we have had Subarus for 20 years now, last three have been Outbacks, currantly driving a 08 2.5SE. My previous was a 2001 VDC H6, and just like yourself I noticed the quality issues, the plastic tailgate, the skittish feel in comparison when on rough tarmac sections, all sorts of little things that make the newer car feel cheaper in my eyes but only noticeable if you have owned an earlier model. I have a set of 16 inch wheels from the VDC, may try those as prefer a softer ride, and the ability to drive up kerbs etc. the 17inch wheels look good, but not convinced yet. If I could have found a low miler 2000-3 H6 I would have bought it in a heartbeat, I think as do others these were the best years build wise. Can't complain about the gas milage for sure, but sure miss the smooth torque and overtaking power for sure of the H6, I suppose all that saved weight had to have a knock on effect, prefer the rear seat fold down system, hate the complicated sat nav unit, miss being unable to turn off VDC when in deep mud or snow. Older cars get a rough time here in the UK as our Government love to spread rocksalt on the roads, so rust can be a killer, also careless owners and abuse can shorten cars lives if used hard for towing etc. Mine is barely run in at 115,000 so hopefully apart from the usual Subaru niggles, will se me through, all the best and may all your gaskets be oiltight, and many more happy miles!
@@kennyrojas4014 Same here! Kenny 2 Kenny, this is my first subie and I'm already glad I made the choice. It's more practical than my Denali, cheaper to maintain, and has more ground clearance. I couldn't change my oil without lifting the GMC up in the air. I'm learning as I go.
Great video on warming up your Subaru engine in the cold. As Robert explains around 14:40, the importance of warming up to warm idle is paramount. As the owner of two Foresters and working on countless other Subarus with CVT’s over the years. Warming up your engine to the point of warm base idle (closed loop) will also preserve your CVT. Putting your CVT equipped Subaru in gear at high idle eventually ruins the forward / reverse clutches in the CVT. After tearing apart a few CVT’s with worn out forward / reverse clutches and returning them to the owner upon completion of rebuild. I have the owner start and drive the car. In every instance, the owner starts the car and puts it into gear at high idle. It is at this point where I try to explain why the forward / reverse clutches on their CVT failed. Depending on whether you put your CVT equipped vehicle in gear at high RPM or low RPM can and will make the difference between your CVT lasting 50,000 miles or 500,000 miles. The worse is when you are in high idle, put it in reverse to let’s say, back out of a driveway. While still at high idle, you put it in drive. Those are two transmission engagements at high idle which is double bad. Putting your CVT equipped Subaru in gear at low idle could be the single most important thing you can do to extend the life of your CVT. As I’ve told my kids who also drive CVT equipped Subarus. Only put it into gear at high idle if you are being chased by zombies, werewolves or criminals.
@@coreturkoane5570 This is true of manuals as well. I just bought a 23 crosstrek and it races 1800RPM in warmup. You work the clutch very differently when its idling that high. I took me a while to get used to it and I'm sure I put more wear and tear on the clutch in that time. Now if I engage a gear at that idle, I don't add any gas with the gas pedal at all. Doing so can easily cause you to get a slight burning smell. If I could turn off the high idle, I would. I don't like it at all.
Thank you Mr Subaru. I just bought my first Subaru and I love it. And now that I found you and all your great content I know more about how to maintain the car I own and love. I appreciate you and I’m grateful for your content. God bless.
Canada here: my wife has a 17 Outback and I have a 23 F150 3.5 Eco-boost, we both idle our engines until the rpm's drop by 2 to 300 revs before we start motoring away. On -10c or colder we'll plug in the block heaters (on timers). Great site, lots of useful info! Geoff
@@jake51515 yep, slow driving is literally warming up a car... But better. People act like sitting at idle does something different under the hood. Letting the oil pump circulate oil while driving slowly will get oil around the engine and up to temp faster than idling.
Thank You Mr. Subaru !! Excellent Accurate explanation for the Modern Subaru Blue Temp Light . 100% in agreement let warm up until the Blue light turns off.
So glad you saw this and had the same response as I did to it. I always warm my engines up before driving. Even after my engine is warm I still take it east to let the transmission and diff fluids warm up before I get on the highway and reach higher speeds. Oil ratings also dictate operating temperatures. Thicker oil is going to flow slower than thinner oil in the cold. So warming up the oil will help ensure that its doing its best to lubricate everything.
I live up in Canada and during the winter it's not uncommon to get -20C to -30C and when I warm up the car I set the parking brake and put the transmission in neutral (automatic) so the pump circulates allowing it to warm up. I will mostly do this around -15C and colder. I also let it run for 20 minutes once it get's colder than -18C. Also, the oldest car I own is a 2005 Honda CR-V I bought brand new and it now as 350,000KM on it and have never had any problems with the engine for letting it idle that long. I do all the normal servicing and still bring it to the dealer for trans flushes and diff service, oil changes I do myself when it warm out but I even bring it to the dealer to have them in the winter.
One additional thing to consider is that warming up your engine does not warm up the transmission or the differential etc. So either way drive the car gently for a while and remember that lubricants take longer to warm up than coolant. In really cold weather it may take 30 to 60 minutes for lubricants to temperature stabilize so easy does it. My rule of thumb is to start the car before cleaning off the snow and ice and wait until idle speed gets below 1000 RPM before gently driving off.
I'm a "first time watcher." I greatly appreciate that you paired together logic and correct information.....what a combo! 😂 I have avoided idling my car(s) to decrease excess emissions from the standpoint of the efficiencies of the catalytic converter. I have driven my Subaru Crosstrek with the little blue temperature light on and as you said, bundled up, using the heated seat, and trying not to breath (at least not on the windshield.) Your point about the "idling up" is well received. I don't prefer the way the car "feels" before it has reached the recommended operating temperature. And I'm guessing at that point my emissions are higher (I think it's a reasonable assumption.) While I would normally start the car and drive forward very slowly some distance, I will now allow it to idle a bit - and not feel guilty! I've had my 2021 Model Crosstrek a few months now. Prior to that I was driving a 2007 Corolla. And before that a 1993 Nissan Sentra with a manual transmission .I believe that companies such as Subaru are doing well to expand the sophistication and features on modern cars to make them perform better on many levels. Of course, these features have to be used the way they are designed to be used. I appreciate that you helped me increase my understanding.
Upon starting my Forester, I always wait until the high idle drops down to about 700 rpm before driving. It just feels right to do so. And yes I always wait for the blue light to go out.
I have a 2015 Forester XT 2.0 and I always wait for that little blue light to go out and idle to drop. I watch a YT video several years ago and the guy said there's a heat exchanger on the Forester that uses the coolant to warm up the CVT transmission fluid. I don't want to take any chances and cause my transmission to wear out prematurely. I already replaced it at 115k because of the front differential going bad and it's part of the transmission internals.....$8k
Your channel has been an amazing repository that’s helped me fix up and maintain my 04 XT Forester. In the past 3 weeks I’ve fixed so many issues with my car and have gotten it back to running like new, all DIY. From CV axels to power steering, idle relearn and a bunch more. Thank you for the great step by step guides.
I just found this video as we roll into winter in December 2023. I have always felt it made sense to let a gasoline engine warm up, especially in frigid weather. What great video with a great explanation.
Thanks for the notification. It has to be old-timers myth though. Another thing that I recently heard is that you should not turn off the engine (with turbo) right after turning down from the highway (driving at high speeds). To get gasoline or similar. You should keep engine running when parked for another minute.
I always let my vehicles warm up a little bit, especially in the winter living in MT. My Subaru started up even when we had -28°F temps not including wind chill! Love my 07 Outback!
@@yoloparrot42 Wind chill is the effect of wind blowing the heat your body has generated away from your skin, exposing your skin to the ambient temperature. Since the car is not producing any heat when off, there is nothing to blow away.
I've always been a supporter of warming up the engine, and I always cite the same expansion/contraction reference you made when explaining this to other people. We have temperatures that drop to below -40 up here in Canada, so for small engine cars I usually, after 2-3 mins of running, suggest taking off slowly and maintaining an RPM at or below 2000 until the gauge starts to read. Otherwise, the car will never actually warm up at those temperatures. Excellent video! And I agree entirely with your logic.
This has to be one of the most common-sense explanations I've heard. Yes, I warm up the car before driving you can feel the difference how the car responds from when its cold verses warmed up. You just reaffirmed what I've been doing when its very cold. I would think this would apply to all cars in cold climates.
You are absolutely correct, I worked in a diesel engine shop for years, I remember the old GM motors that had the cast iron blocks & alum.cyl. heads, rebuilt a good many of them, because people wouldn't let them warm up. Enjoyed your video, those guys just want to sell more parts. The ones that are telling you to drive off in the cold.
Hi Mr Suburu, great channel, subbed 6 months and often check out your content, thanks for sharing your knowledge. You state sensible facts and logic, I totally agree with you. My wife drive a 2013 forester here in central Canada, the cold part lol, we always warm up the car, and will continue, NO matter what environmentals say...
The CVT on Subarus is meant to specifically run a certain weight oil and it's only at that weight after it warms up so I warm it up for my CVT more than the engine.
Older cars don't have heaters in the transmission so while letting it idle will warm the engine it won't warm up the tranmission. Most cars will be limited to second gear (or the cvt equivilent) when cold to help warm the transmission fluid faster.
@@robertkraft2358 My understanding is that the heat exchanger for the tran only exchanges to ambient air and therefore can only be used to cool the engine. In my expereince no amount of idle will warm a CVT transmission, I've left my car running for over an hour before when we had a power outage and I ran power to the house from an inverter. The engine temps were at operating but when I went to change parking spots the transmission was still slugish.
Great vid and info. I have a 2022 Mazda CX-9 and it also has the same blue temp light "feature" and the manual also states the same about letting the car warm up before driving. The dealership I purchased from stated that it's "okay" to drive while said light is on as long as you don't enable Sport Mode or accelerate hard until the light has turned off. Thanks again for the info 👍
Thanks for making this. There are so many hobbyist channels about cars particularly subarus where the owners of the channel make claims like you don't have to wrm up the engine before driving, or engine break ins are a sham. We need more educated techs like yourself spreading true information that eont lead to premature failure
Happy Christmas from Jamaica. I live in tropical climate all year long and I do warm up my 2008 Impreza every morning until the light goes off before hitting the road.
Thank you! I have looked in my owners manual and did not find this recommendation. I have always owned older cars, late 90’s so very used to warming up my vehicles. I also heard that it was not necessary to warm up my Subaru😮 I have never started my car in the winter and just took thankfully. However I do let it idle and then will drive under 30 until cold temp gauge goes off. Not anymore thankfully to you !!!
Great point about driving immediately with a fogged up windshield! Safety first, no matter what is recommended! I think this is all about fuel economy standards and manufacturers and governmental agencies making sure no fuel is wasted while the car is warming up. Of course you should let your car warm up for a few minutes. The engine oil and coolant, the trans fluid, the differential fluids are all at ambient temperature when you first start the vehicle. It’s just common sense to let those fluids warm up a bit before driving. And for me, even after I start driving, I take it easy until the operating temps are near normal. Good video, thanks.
@@charleshuffman6982 This is true, thanks for clarifying. I guess the exception would be vehicles like the Subaru, and the Toyota RAV4 that have the front differential built into the transaxle, these might get some slight warming of the fluid from the transmission and possibly the engine during warmup.
@@charleshuffman6982 I have a long driveway so sometimes after I've clear the windows I will drive back and forth so I'm technically not idling. I don't think we have any regulations about idling in the driveway where I live but I could be wrong.
I have a 2021 Subaru, my first automatic transmission in maybe 50 years. I ALWAYS warm the engine (all year round) till the little blue cold light goes out and the idle drops to 700 or 800. I refuse to drop it into gear while at high (cold) idle (1800 rpm in my car). Putting it into gear at 1800 rpm has to be an issue with the CVT in the long term. Ain't happening in my car. Needless to say I really make great use of the remote start, especially during the winter in NY. Nice presentation.
I have 2016 forester and live in Phoenix. I have never waited for the blue light to go out before driving. I’ve never done anything different on any vehicle I had before this one either. I just drive gently and easy for the first few miles. The rpm’s drop as soon as I shift into reverse or drive so I don’t get the difference between warming at high rpm idle or lower rpm gentle driving.
Happy New Year Robert!!! Thank you for all the videos this past year and looking forward to seeing more videos from you this year. I will add - the car warms up faster if you don’t turn on the heater/defrost UNTILthe little blue light goes off. 🎉
I have a 2013 XV Crosstrek. I live in NE Washington. In the winter, I generally let it warm up for anywhere between 1-3 minutes, or maybe closer to 5 minutes if the temp is 10 degrees or less. The amount of time I let it warm up depends on the ambient temp outside.
little do people know, an engine that never turns off and idles vs one that cycles constantly ; the engine running forever would last longer since its not subjected to thermal stress/expansion
yes, but 'last longer' meaning what exactly? In other words, the whole pt of this vid is about the debate in engineering auto ICE engines, re warming up causing damage , which idle-type warm ups do cause a bit of damage in some ICE gasoline engines. Your topic is different, and really has no practical application except when discussing the value of a used car. If a mechanic or experienced person can get some indication that a car had mostly highway miles and was not a daily driver, then that car is indeed a much better condition car, overall. (bcuz heat cycles are what age everything)
Excessive idling after reaching normal operating temperature can cause engine problems like carbon buildup. But this mainly applies to work vehicles that may be left running at a work site for hours at a time. For the average driver, this is not an issue.
I always let it idle for a minute or two, and then drive slowly until the engine is fully warm to get the fluids moving around. I think we need to consider the fluids in the differential and transmission too. I've been doing this for years and have 250,000 on a V6 Malibu and 170,000 on a Grand Marquis. Both run like new, don't burn oil, and have never let me down.
When it's really cold I warm up my vehicles the fluids are thicker than normal so you end up putting extra stress on your fluid pumps especially if you just start it up and drive off. The extra stress may not amount to anything but the thermo expansion of pistons, heads, and cylinder blocks can cause issues if one expands faster than the others
I think oil temp is more important than coolant temp for the longevity of your engine. But I will always let the STi warm up before taking off and keep it under 4k rpm's until operating temp. How long is dependent on how cold. At least wait until I see the temp needle move and hit its first line, usually within 3-5 mins. (I'm in CO btw)
Yep. I let mines warm up until the dash temp gets to half way then don’t go over 4k rpm’s for another 2/3 minutes. Especially with boosted cars I’ve always been told to let the car warm up. It’s the oil temp & expansion of the engine components that are the important thing.
2001 F150 with 241k on it. Same timing chain and heads have never been remove. Been warming it up for over 20 years and no problem. Motor is still strong as ever. Change the oil regularly and that is it. Still strong and pulls my 5000 pound boat with ease
2003 Subaru 200K miles. Never warm the engine EVER. I take it easy till the car is warmed up. Change the oil every around 5k the damn thing burns oil like it's no ones business. My dad has a Silverado with 240k miles. Never has been warmed up in its life. The damn thing has the original transmission, and engine. I cannot believe that thing is still kicking. Idk how often he replaces the oil. This is all location based. Follow your manual. If they stay to warm it warm it if they don't it doesn't matter.
Exactly I mostly warm up to have the engine and transmission fluids do their thing and let the engine disperse heat evenly. I’ve been doing this for 50 years👍 this man is smart💪
Very well explained! I read the exact same article and came to the same conclusion as you and others did. The article made 0 sense to me as I rationally thought “The oil will be circulating from the oil pump regardless of wether the engine is idling or the vehicle is being driven. Thank you for clarifying this and putting it to rest. Sadly, there are going to be people out there who will take this at face value and follow it. Those people are going to be the ones risking potential engine failure at some point. I also drive a Subaru and do let it warm up for several minutes before driving away. I live in Canada and believe me, on COLD winter days, I not only have the block heater plugged in but also start and warm up the engine before driving away. I’ve found in my experience two things: one - if I don’t do this, my transmission is sluggish etc; two - that blue engine temp icon takes roughly 2 - 4 minutes to go off indicating that the engine is sufficiently warmed up. To drive away to prematurely risks damage to the CVT and I’d rather not have to pay that bill to get that repaired/replaced! Thanks again!!!
just, no! repeat after me: the engineer designers literally designed the car engine and other parts to warm up so quickly after u start engine that it's safest and easiest on the engine to start driving at your earliest convenience, ie, within that first minute or two. They designed the system to NOT be harmed (in fact opposite) from driving immediately after starting. This is a FACT and all the mfr's have data on it and it's in the design specs. I like facts. And i like buying used cars from ppl who follow the instructions of the mfr!
I've got a 22 Outback with 18,000 mi on it and live in Massachusetts and I'm not sure I've ever seen the blue light! In any case I do warm up the engine but I do it my way. I start the engine and basically drive immediately but very gently. I keep the rpms at 2000 or under for the first couple of miles. This means I will actually pull over to the side of the road if there are people behind me wanting to pass. I would never, never gun the engine immediately after starting on a cold day and am really glad I don't live right next to an interstate where I'd have to get up to speed immediately. I'm 70 years old and hike a lot but I don't hike quickly up steep hills at the beginning of my hike. I give my body a chance to warm up - my heart rate, lungs, joints, muscles, etc. I treat my car gently the same way!
I have been more intentional since my last oil change about letting my 14 crosstrek warmup even in the summer, but especially in the fall/winter for a few minutes until the lights off before driving and I think it has helped to keep my oil level consistent with out any noticeable consumption taking place.
U either have the oil issue or u don’t with that model. U obviously got a good one so did I. Sold my 14 Trek was so gutless and uncomfortable on highway trips. Definitely a City car. My 3.6 Outback is dreamy on long highway trips.
Thank you for the information, (the whole oil pump not working at idle thing seemed kind of silly) but I always thought that the cold engine light was for the CVT as a reminder not to accelerate to harshly until the CVT internals are up to 140 deg. Additionally, when it is cold, I usually wait until the engine is warmed up. Once I am driving the blue light is still on, the RPM will be higher than I usually see it at. After the blue light is extinguished the engine RPM will normally drop off top what I consider a normal RPM range, this usually takes about three to five minutes depending how cold it is.
My 07 Outback XT has the blue light and if it's on, it prevents you from putting the car into S# mode, so yes, it's definitely to prevent the engine from being revved too high.
Love when you showed the blue temp light. My light is green & there is a red light when it gets too hot. Imagine that. In 1962 that was standard in Chevy trucks. As the engine warms up the green light fades out. The main reason for that is to give the temperature time to come up enough to open the thermostat. The open thermostat let's the warmed coolant to circulate through the radiator. It's real crucial with my 261ci six cylinder. Yes I am in the middle of doing the timing belt & water pump kit on my 1997 Subaru legacy Outback 2.5l. That's how I found your channel.👍
Been going back and forth with a friend of mine about this. I drive a 98 Subaru Forester and I can tell a distinct difference in the way my car drives when I don’t warm to when I do. I just feels like the parts aren’t moving as smoothly and actually feels like I have less horsepower when driving on a cold engine. Firm believer in warming up your car to less than 1,000 rpm before taking off.
Makes sense to warm up. I’ve notice in my 2018 Crosstrek gets about 90 km until it goes down 1 bar of gas in the summer but in the winter it’s about 70 km. I lose about 20 km in the winter due to warming up because on this cold days or nights I’ve sat in my car waiting 5 to 6 min for the blue light to go out. But I think it’s important especially for the cvt to be warm.
I am new to both an outback H6 and an engineer and You have correct logic and love your videos Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year! Keep up those videos!
I saw the exact "Verified" report a few days ago. It made me laugh out loud! The absolute ignorance of the statements from those so-called "technicians." I'm a lifelong mechanic/technician, engine builder and automotive machinist. And their excuses of why you don't warm your engine is the most ignorant statements I've ever heard!
well the engineering/engineers do bear this out, and fleets of gas vehicles acknowledge this, though of course practical demands are a factor too, ie the need for driver to be warm enough to operate vehicle safely!
15:00 onward is when he mentions what you need to know imo, I recommend a digital temperature and voltage monitor that plugs into OBD, most cold nights the engine is around 0 C, I like to see it rise 20 degrees before I drive trying to keep it below 2K rpm by using higher gears until blue lite goes off at 50 C, my impreza runs at around 93C. Having those 2 as gauges gives a better indicator of issues and I want to monitor those #'s.
I typically let it warm Up for ~2 minutes and try to ease into my driving right off the bat. My dad always taught us back in the day to not let it idle for extended amount of time. It is illegal to let your car run unattended in NC (like anyone gives a $hit if it’s in your driveway, etc). I guess I still have enough distrust not to leave it idling so it won’t get stolen! Great timing on this post, thanks!
That is just completely crazy and ridiculous. If that’s the case my dad‘s 85 c10 should’ve took a dirt nap a long time ago. In the winter time he would let it run 10 to 15 minutes before taking off. It has almost 400,000 miles on it, it has the 4.3 V6 in it and a four barrel carburetor.
@@petemitchell6788 I have been told that I have a gas tank for a brain and nos run’s in my veins and No all the truck I have rude in had working exhaust system because we had e check back then 😁😆
I appreciate your input. Both of my cars sit still till at least SAI has completed its cycle and the idle drops. I then begin driving gently. Especially the flat 6. My beater is all aluminum as well. I wait till at least 180 F before I break 3000 rpm. In the flat 6. The beater is a pooch. So no need to hammer on either of them till some slow building heat has occurred. Thanx for the information. I’ll sit a little longer. The temp I speak of, is oil temperature.
I think it's a good idea to warm up your engine before driving, though I'm guilty of taking off sooner than I should, but where I live, I really can't go over 25 for about a mile, so I drive about 20 mph in second gear and the engine isn't running much above idle. The blue light usually goes off after about a half mile. It doesn't get very cold here in northern Arizona anyway. Flagstaff can get very cold, but the elevation isn't so high where I live.
Thank you Mr. Subaru for confirming my long held belief. I currently have a 2017 legacy, and just bought a 2018 Crosstrek. The legacy has a gauge, the Crosstrek does not. It has the blue light. I always let a cold engine warm up before going anywhere.
wow, I just bought my parent's 2011 Subaru out back, an for the last week I have been wondering what is this lil blue Temp light, Mr Subaru you get a GOLD star, an a blue ribbon, an me subscribing to this informative channel!
Hi from Canada. if i can see out the windows I'm ready to drive. That seems to work at any temp down to -40. of course at -40 the block heater is plugged in. with full synthetic i never used the block heater until about -20c
I always let my Crosstrek warm up until it goes into closed loop (blue light off) for the reasons noted in the video, but also to avoid unnecessary wear/stress on the CVT by dropping it into gear when the cold idle is still high at 1,800 RPM.
Agreed 100%. Has to hurt dropping it into gear at 1800 rpm. I always wait till the idle drops to normal (700 or 800), which happens mere seconds after the blue light goes out.
It still has a torque converter, which is going to absorb any high idle "stress" from putting it into gear. Any extra wear you might be thinking about isn't enough to matter unless you plan on that transmission doing 1,000,000 miles. Probably not even then.
I have been seeing this come up a lot lately. It just never made sense to drive off with a cold engine. Then again I grew up driving cars that needed to be warmed up or they wouldn't even run right lol. I have an 01' Forester and where I live, with wind chill, the temp in the winter can easily be -20 F. I wouldn't dream of NOT warming it up. By far the best car I have ever had for winter driving. Great video.
@@Yohane350 I know wind chill is real. I ride motorcycles and go hunting lol. also with out wind chill it is 2 degrees F out so yeah its cold. (I mean this light hearted lol I know wind chill doesnt effect your car.)
@@collinmc90 I will say though, I don't know if this is a thing, but when the wind is strong enough and the intake (ie: the grille) is facing the wind, the car starts harder (cold knocking as well), revs higher and takes longer to warm up. The sitch has to align just right, but it has happened too many times to just be a coincidence: colder wind definitely seems to affect my Outback.
@@ChristianGiaconiBonaguro You know this makes a lot of sense actually. I mean we have air cooled engines right? wind speed has to effect the temperature of a warm engine otherwise they would all over heat? hmm So I guess it would make sense that if the air coming in was really really cold it would mess with detonation in the cylinder. just my guess. I mean people install cold air intakes to improve performance but if an engine isn't tuned for that maybe it hurts performance? again just my thoughts.
Another point is that some cars have oil squirters to keep the piston skirts lubricated. Another thing is that it's good to let the battery charge a little before putting more of a load on it. That's one of the reasons why Alternators die when in extreme cold or extreme heat. I called out this article when I heard it too.
I'm glad you're a video on this. I don't let my kids or my wife go anywhere without warming up the cars, they're all 2014's. I've always warmed everything with that being said, you can't even move your diesel truck, bold or new without warming it up these wackles. We got working. Gotta get their head out of their a**, thank you Mr.
If newer cars with lots of plastic parts get those plastic parts get too hot too many times they'll fail eventually. You are totally correct about modern EFI engines, I was startled to hear that article you read, I must have been written by someone who knows little about internal combustion engines. Also driving away, gently, the engine will warm up faster then letting it idle for a long period of time. I have lived in Chicago, Colorado, Alaska and Michigan all my life and did controlled studies with each new car I've owned for the last 45 years. They all warmed up faster if you drove them, gently, than letting them idle for a long time.
A car will warm up faster if you drive it gently than idling. Gentle driving will take the engine up to, let say 2000rpm. The engine warms up due to the amount of explosions in the combustion chambers and the friction of the components. These are both greatly increased if the engine is at 2000rpm. The problem is, the oil in the engine is not warm enough to lubricate properly at 2000rpm under load.
@Harvey Smith second this. I installed an oil pressure gauge in my car, and the cold start reading is at over 100 psi. High oil pressure isn't always a good case when the oil isn't properly warmed up. Cus the oil isn't as free flow as it should be, all oil has an optimal operating temperature window. Too low or too high is bad for the engine. My best analogy is when the engine oil is too cold. It's like trying to run Mapple syrup through your metal bearings. Sometimes, those syrup don't have enough juice to get to the dedicated spot to lubricate the engine parts while underload.
@@harveysmith100 People just forget that atleast here...there is nothing gentle about when you drive in the snowdrifts and clogged up winter roads when it has been snowing :D but anyway the article lacks any real info. you dont need to actually wait for 15 minutes to warm up the engine..but common sense says that 1 or 2 minutes of letting all things get going smoothly does nothing but good when you like clear the snow off the car in the meanwhile.
That's what S&S says about motorcycle engines. The pistons, cylinders and heads all expand at different rates. They need time to snug up against each other.
Thanks for the logic and reality. The usual sales pitch is modern engines/oils dont need warming up ? Reality - Oils are not designed to operate at room temperature. Engines are not designed to operate at room temperature. End of debate. Would love to see you rate start/stop tech.
When I was ordering my 24 impreza rs there was accessories and features I was really considering for the car. For starters the engine block heater actually works in cold climates and helps start the car easier
Block heaters would definitely reduce the high idle warm up time in extreme cold weather. Looking at an Impreza 24 or Crown Signia. Currently driving a Impreza 2017 which has a pretty long high idle time, 2024 Impreza has a better thermostat should warm up faster
My rule of thumb, if I absolutely cannot let it warm up to the point where the blue light goes out, I'll give it a minute and a half or two minutes. If it's less than 10f out, more like two or three minutes. Or to the point where I can successfully deice the windshield, back window, and the front side windows, and they consistently stay defogged. But most of the time I wait for the light to go out. My pharmacy benefits plan thanks me later too (I have asthma and staying longer in cold temps causes me to have to use my inhaler more). I think you're right. Article seems like it's pushing the "green" initiative compared to what they've said years ago, "your car doesn't need to warm up" and found it doesn't work. So now they're trying this approach, which if it doesn't work, you'll likely see anti-idling laws and exec orders in the future.
I agree. When I drive Subaru I dont wait forever for that blue light. I will put it in D and let the vehicle roll on its own with no gas pedal since my neighborhood has a lot of signs to slow down anyway.
@@jeretso One of my mechanic friends say as long as you give it at least a minute and keep it under 3-4k rpm driving it afterwards, until it reaches operating temperature, it should not do extra damage. It's just for best defogger effectiveness and safety it's best to warm it up all the way which is why manufacturers typically recommend it.
It probably boils down to emissions. It pollutes more when cold. However I need heat. The heat does not work unless the engine is warm. So it will set there and run until the heat is ready to go.
Thanks once again for bringing common sense to a confusing issue. I always warm up the Subaru for at least 5 minutes in sub freezing temps. Thanks to your post I use the temperature light as an indicator.
Having grown up in 50s and 60s in upstate NY, I remember seeing temperatures cold enough to freeze radiators when cars were driven without warming up, Modern antifreezes seem to have solved that issue but I still let my car warm up for all the other reasons discussed in this excellent video.
This is great information I have a 2022 Premium WRX, and it is my first high performance car, my WRX does not have the blue light temperature symbol. But I was told by Subaru it is very important from a cold start to warm the engine up I always wait at least 2 minutes before I move , but I live in Lexington SC and here it is 13f which is really unusual and now I wait till at least my oil temperature reads 100f before I move off . Plus after driving I don’t switch it off right away I wait at least one minute before turning it off
I've owned 2 different wrxs And a sti all modified and From New and never had any issues. I Just didn't drive them hard until they warmed Up.. I started them And idled for like a minute or so then drove normal.. never had any issues in the years owning them.
@@HellofromAustralia-s8h-juan Thanks for you reply I don’t even think about going into boost until at least my oil temperature is at 185f, I just have changed the wheels, added a rear diffuser, F1 vector rear light, etc just doing cosmetic changes, I have no intention on modifying my engine, I just put on a axle back Magna flow exhaust system
@@racheldempster6655 Nice 👍 Yeah I had a 2008 WRX hatch, a 2015 WRX And a 2018 sti 😅 they're are great And reliable if you find a good tuner 😃 here in Australia I researched And found a good place. I Only sold the sti cause I needed a bigger car so got a 4wd😎
The WRX has a real temp gauge on the cluster, where as other Subarus don't have that gauge, so they wired the blue light to indicate when the car is not in operating temperature.
question: I am no mechanical engineer here, but isn’t it also advantageous to let your engine warm up to also help warm up CVT transmissions? Would it be better for the CVT belt warmed up then cold? I understand it’s not gonna be Completely warmed up like the engine, but even if the transmission received some heat from the engine to help warm up the transmission belt inside, that’s also more advantageous, correct?
I think more modern cars have transmission heaters for startup now, but for ones without, it seems like this might help, but how are they really going to heat up short of having the engine move them?
The transmission coolers route through the radiator or in the case of my Forester the intercooler is warmed up by coolant . Yes it warms the transmission oil.
My Subaru provides pressure at idle the oil control rings control the amount of oil in the cyl. With every stroke. You cannot ot scrape all of the oil off as it is reapplied with each stroke. Also modern injection systems are far less likely to flood the cyl. Jesus this is bull.
@@edwardmyers8782 Using engine coolant to warm up the transmission has limited success in cold weather, as it may take many minutes to heat up the coolant first, and especially so with the latest engines which will actually stop all coolant flow entirely until the engine reaches a certain temperature. I think this is why transmissions have their own heaters now. They can use the engine coolant to remove excess heat from the transmission, but at startup they rely on their own heater to come up to normal operating temperature.
I think another reason to let the engine warm up because it's better for your CVT to give it longer life & trouble free. And I believe it is hard on the CVT to put it into drive when the engine is at fast idle warming up.
I live in Reno nv presently. The lows have been around 7 degrees even when the temps are at 32 degrees I use the remote start to warm up the engine compartment because the engine will be way much colder. When I get in my OBW I look at the temperature panel and the coolant temperature gauge. When the engine temperature is at 118 degrees then I drive off slowly and do a break check on the ice. Then I take off. I am an heavy equipment operator so I am familiar with the cold starts.
My father and grandfather were engineers for Opel for their entire careers. They would start their vehicles and let them warm up for approximately a minute in cold weather and then drive them gently until they warmed up. They warm up much more quickly under load then idling.
The argument for not warming up that I have always heard is that the fastest way to warm up your engine is to drive slowly. I’m not picking a side here but I have always noted that it takes a very long time for an engine to warm up by idling in the driveway, it does happen quicker when you drive right away.
Besides traditional reasons for warming up, I submit Subaru’s CVT try’s to keep the engine tacking at minimal RPM’s (about 1300 - 1500 RPM) when in drive. Unless your running the highway all the time the subie doesn’t do a good job charging the battery. I have an outback and forester, never jumpstarted vehicles as much in my life (especially the 17’ forester). Just think they don’t tac enough to charge if doing local driving all the time.
(Hit send to soon) the point I was trying to make, letting the ending warm up at the programmed higher RPM helps keep the battery charged up. Again more applicable to consistent local driving.
This is a loaded question IMHO, it truly depends on what your driving and where. If it’s 30° outside and you live in a low speed neighborhood where you have time to let the car move slowly then start it up let it idle for 30sec-90 seconds. Put it in gear and let it roll. Use very light throttle and the car will warm up much faster due to the increased load of the driven force. However if it’s -10° out and your house is next to a high speed or high demand road. I.e. a Highway and your vehicle is expected to perform at its highest then letting it warm up at least to a point where you can feel warm air coming out of your heater vents is best… most good engines have had thought put into what types of alloys are used in each component and how much clearance is provided between those components and what kinds of oil is employed to aid in a liquid bearing in those clearances between those all components. The true secret to it all is how good is your oil and how clean is your oil? The quality of oil is king and no I don’t mean how much you spent on the last oil change I mean how long ago and how much fuel has your engine used sense you changed that oil. Also how clean is the air coming in that engine? Can you wipe the intake pipe with a white towel and see any visible change due to dirt/dust? that’s the key to combustion engine life….. also have you ever started an engine where it’s so cold the temperature never comes up? Then what?😂 it happens
I am definite believer of letting your car warm up, no matter the make or model. Honestly, I feel the people who said warming an engine is rough on it, received some type of compensation from the government, and is an attempt to start scaring people into buying an EV .
I had a neighbor who would put a brick on his accelerator and let his car rev at about 3000-3500 rpm for about 20 minutes each morning before leaving because he thought this was good for his engine. I think he took the "warming up your engine" as a good thing way too far. Strange how he always seemed to have car trouble.
I'm up in Alberta Canada and last week it was a solid -35⁰C every day, all day long. You bet your butt everyone up here was warming up their cars. I gave my 2010 Forester 20 mins every morning before work to warmup since I park outside, and it was just to get the windshield to defrost so I could see, and genuinely it was so cold it needed longer. Everyone at work was warming up their cars 20 mins before they all left.
@@jthomas3773 What's the point you're trying to make? It's Arctic cold. It's "You will get frostbite in minutes" cold. Welcome to Canadian Winters, everyone learns to do it otherwise by the time you make it home it's still -20⁰C inside your car with half of them still covered in frost. If you're going to talk smack just go out and say it.
@@atracin I live within spitting distance of Canada so I know Arctic cold. The local wimps like nothing more than idling engines- they must be from the Tropics? Get in it, start it, and go, just like the OWNER'S MANUAL says. Edit: Yeah, when I get in and go in my cold vehicle the windows fogging up can be an issue. Cracking the driver's door window open a bit and keeping a rag and scraper handy inside take care of that. It only takes a couple of minutes for the defroster to kick in after that.
Living in Texas and i always let the engine warm before driving. I purchased a 2023 subaru crosstrek because it was the last year they offered a manual shift and went straight to cvt. Watching your videos got me interestied in subaru
Sir, you are really great at explaining issues and maintenance concerns for Subarus very well. Thanks for everything. My question is why Subaru, upon the initial cold or warm start up, goes to high idle at start up until it senses warmed up to turn off the blue light? Isn’t it harder on the engine to lubricate the cylinders, valves, crankcase, and components to rev at higher rpm than low? Thank you. 🇺🇸
You idle at a red light, people idle waiting to pick up their partner at work, construction workers idle their cars on the site, 18 wheel tractor trailers idle for 6-8 hours in winter to get warmth, when they sleep in their cab
getting from high idle down is a good idea..but for example my mercedes van doesnt generate enough heat with its 4 liter engine to even remotely warm up the coolant to get the temp needle moving if one is not driving it in the winter temps. Engine sounds more like a cement mixer for the first 1 minute of starting and calms down after a little idling...would not even slightly think about driving when its that rough and cold.
@@nekoroms Your van has a pretty big system to warm up. My 17 year old son has a 2010 honda. This morning 14 degree F weather heard the "tap, tap, tap" valves for a second at start up. Scared him to death. I learned on a 1967 MGB GT from my dad in the 80s, manual choke. Let the engine warm up, advice has not changed. The most engine stress is in cold weather, fact.
I 'was' an IC engine lubrication engineer (Mech Engr. and Physical Chemist - particles) for the early years of my practice. Cajun Aggie is spot on (see posting below). Start the engine, and DRIVE it 'gently' & WITHOUT extreme loads (Eg. - rapid accelerations) applied ..... until the engine 'heat soaks' to its proper operating (gage) temperature. Cold engines operated at idle take LONGER to warm up to their DESIGNED operating temperatures AND engine bearing clearances, and will usually have a 'rich' fuel mixture which will ultimately dilute the oil and ultimately, over time, lower the oil's viscosity ... the proper viscosity is what prevents metal to metal 'crashes' in the journal bearings, etc. Starting an engine is the time of maximum wear; so, if you have a very expensive engine (aren't they all expensive, now), consider to install a 'start-up pressure oiler' so you will start with ***full oil pressure*** in the oil lube system -- about 20-30 seconds without an add-on pressure oiler ( I use an aux. OBD-II read-out gage on my 'dash-board(s)' to monitor oil temp. and pressure during 'start'.) *** Other and FWIW: Especially with the more 'modern' engines that use 'LOW TENSION' piston rings' ({govt. mandated} to result in 'better' fuel milage) are VERY vulnerable to becoming jammed or 'stuck' due to carbon build up in the piston ring grooves; can cause premature engine wear/failure (becoming VERY common). Rx: 1. if you drive a high percentage of your time in 'stop and go' conditions with lots of accelerating AND idling, --- Consider to change the oil, (and filter) at HALF the recommended oil change-out interval. 2. The usual 'published' oil change-out recommendations apply to constant, steady-steady state, 'open higway' speeds w/ cruise control ON !!! Such constant steady-state driving will characteristically only cause ~1/10 of the internal engine wear in comparison to 'beating' a cold engine and/or stop and go driving with 'heavy' accelerating. The overall long term cost of 'good' oil, changed regularly and based on 'actual' driving conditions, is characteristically much CHEAPER than an engine 'rebuild' or 'new' vehicle. FWIW - I routinely get 250k++ miles out of a 'decent' engine. I routinely add a carbon reducing compound to clean out the piston ring grooves every other 'normal' (6k) oil change. Do 'regularly' change the oil yourself !!!! Hope this helps.
I’ve a 2022 Outback XT. I warm my engine up until the oil temp reaches 120°. I learned a few things about turbocharged engines. Learned it best to let the oil in the turbo cool off and cycle before turning off the engine. I do this for a couple of minutes if I’m driving around town close to home. Now if I’m on the road at high speeds and pull of the road to say gas up, I read it’s best to let that oil in the turbo to cycle for maybe five minutes before shutting the engine off. I also don’t ‘horse’ the turbo, it’s best to have the ‘take it easy’ mindset.
I've used the factory remote starter in my 2017 Forester every winter since I bought it new, 7ish years ago. I usually let it run 3-5 minutes, and have never encountered any issues. The car just turned 100K, and runs like new.
All my subarus are 05 and 06 and are solid vihecles. I worked on a 2010 and noticed the missing gauge 🤦🏽♂️. Was not happy with subaru and the horrible CVT
Mechanical Engineer here. I always warm any cold engine at least 20-30 seconds before driving regardless of outdoor temperature to allow for good oil circulation and thermal expansion of the metal parts to happen so that design clearances are obtained prior to applying a load (driving). Modern oils aren't a major issue down to pretty cold temperatures, viscosity wise, but the amount of oil between bearing surfaces (as a designed system) is dependent on proper clearances which is highly dependent on the engine reaching design temperature. That is why you shouldn't "drive hard" with a cold engine. With proper lubrication, all loads are borne by the oil and not any metal to metal contact. Most wear occurs during startup in modern engines. Or more realistically, due to improper maintenance or operation.
Wow a whole 20-30 seconds, you sound like a soccer mom
As an engineer, you are aware that there is a vast difference between driving hard after a cold start and gently starting off and remaining gentle on the throttle until the operator can see some movement on the temp gauge or feel some heat from the vents. This is such nonsense. At this point the "debate" should be well settled, because it has been the subject of so much professional research and testing, many decades and many millions of dollars. It is only those who think they know better than all those technicians and their findings that continue "debating".
@@jthomas3773 sounds like you’ve been triggered & your annoyed by a professional providing good information. Or maybe your just an asshole.
I've personally seen a motor that was taken apart that was started and saw that it took the oil less than a second to completely flood the motor. Plus, based on my experience on starting my vehicle and driving off, regardless of the temperature, it has never resulted in any major problems in the last 8 years I've had my car. Back in the day, warming them up made sense with the carburetors, but now it's not necessary.
My 1990 Pontiac Sunbird's engine absolutely ran better after letting it idle two minutes (and switched from closed loop to open loop operation). Even the manufacturers know to control the startup procedure manually (through computer software programming) prior to allowing the sensor inputs to dictate how the engine's running. So I let mine idle even longer to warm up.
I don't do that for my 2002 Subaru, though. I've yet to determine exactly why it performs so much better, but I'm assuming (presently) that it has to do with the aluminum block and superior systems, etc.
My friend used to drive the old style VW bugs. His theory was start the engine, light a joint, smoke it about half way while the engine warmed up, then take off.
Lol. Y'know I think there may actually be a chapter on that in "How to Keep your Volkswagen Alive" by the late John Muir. Still a great read 40+ years after selling my bug.
Works with water-cooled VWs as well.
We must always keep friends like that nearby.
did he inject the other half of the joint to the gas to make it more fuel efficient? LOL😂😂😂😂
Well that's one way to increase the chances that your car outlives you. 😅
Subaru tech from Canada here. To all my forged piston owners: warm up to operating temperature is a must! as the alloys used in high performance pistons have higher thermal expansion and the motor is built with larger piston to wall clearances and if you drive on a cold piston it will slap and WILL cause the damage to cylinders mentioned in this video. As for stock piston the car can be driven in 1-2 minutes after starting but MUST be driven extremely gently under 1/2 throttle and very low rpm, if you cannot discipline yourself to drive that way or you end up on the highway right away after starting warm up is a must.
I have a 2013 stl with 100% stock engine. It’s originally from Canada. Anyways I always had block heater plugged in. Probably outta ignorance, I never drive it. It has summer tires on, so I unplug batter tender and block warmer and try and get outta my drive and fail multiple times because of ice and snow, incline with gravel. Anyways the cluster now indicates the engine is running hot or too hot to turn over. I’m wondering if I smoked my engine or just the thermostat. I’m more than a little nervous
@brentschulz6490 It's interesting, I work like 3 minutes away from work, and lately, we've been getting -25 to -29 in Ottawa, and the windshield is frozen and all Icy. to warm up the windshield on the 2021 crosstrek, it covers a small area. Meanwhile, my g37, the heat will warm up a bigger area. I have spoken to a friend, and he recommend to have the block heater plugged in either on a timer like 1h before I leave for work or get a starter.
Depending on the weather conditions - WITH MY CAR PARKED OUTSIDE - I have always warmed up the engines in varying amounts of time. I will always start the engine before I clean off the car so it can help me melt the ice on the windshield. Also, my automatic transmissions are more sensitive to colder temperatures than my manual transmissions, so this is an issue. I like the idle speed to start dropping before I put my auto trans car into gear, but I usually only warm up my cars a couple of minutes if my windshield is clear.
As far as engine damage is concerned, I've never suffered any of this in any of my cars. When the heads are off, I always take pictures of my like new appearing engines so I can prove to others why regular oil changes WITH premium brand full synthetic oil is necessary. My exhaust pipe tips are gray because of no oil consumption.
Bottom line:
Fossil fuel powered engines only require a minimal amount of warm up, BUT should never be driven hard until the temperature gauge says it is OK. Automatic transmissions are more susceptible to extra "wear and tear" if not warmed at least a little bit.
Scheduled maintenance with proper fluids and parts is critical.
Top Tier fuels are critical for "runability" in all situations, especially with the new DGI engines and super high powered fuel injectors.
Common Sense applies here.
I refuse to comment on EV's. They have no place in my life unless they are golf carts.
I am 71 years old. I have maintained a lifelong habit of letting my engine warm up for at least five minutes. I never start to drive while the engine is at high idle. I regularly get 300,000 to 500,000 miles (or more) out of a car. I have never paid for an engine overhaul.
What Cars and Manufactures are your favorite? I need some wisdom 🙏
Environmentalist wackos trying to tell you what to do. Is it not your car? Firestone is not an authority. This should be a tip. Don’t get me started on my experience with those shops.
@@2020Animations I started out with a used Plymouth Fury (1962) that had 99,000 miles on a broken odometer for three years when I bought it. I drove it 1,000 miles per week for two years before I gave it away. Its new owner drove it for several years before it fell apart---total mileage unknown, probably over 400,000 miles.
My first new car was a 1973 Toyota Corolla Sedan. I got just over 300,000 miles out of it before it fell apart. (Yes, those were hard miles.)
I had a 1980 Toyota Tercel that went over 400,000 miles.
I had a Saturn SL-1 (1993) that went just shy of 700,000 miles, with one new clutch at about 390,000 miles. I wish I could buy another one.
I had a 2002 Ford Mustang Coupe (6 cylinder) that went almost 350,000 before my daughter totaled it. I loved that car.
I had a 2013 Ford Edge that I traded in at 150,000 miles because I was afraid of the tranny going bad. The engine ran A-1.
Along the way, I had a used (98,000 miles) Pontiac Bonneville (2003) that went to 350,000 miles before I sold it. It was running fine when I let it go. The Bonneville rode very nicely under all road conditions. I wish I could buy another one.
I also had an Infiniti G35-X (2004, the AWD version.) that went just over 300,000 miles before we traded it. It did not ride quite as smoothly as the Bonneville but ran like a cheetah and handled like it was on rails. Brakes were superb---but had to be replaced (pads and rotors) every 15,000 miles, along with the tires. It ate brakes and tires no matter how gently we drove it but it sure was fun to drive.
@@BBQDad463 Damn, gramps. You've driven for more than a million miles. I've only done less than 200,000 in my lifetime
I'm not a mechanic, nor an engineer. Just a girl who loves her Subaru. But I did grow up working on cars and I do understand a bit about engines. I live in CO and I have always let my cars warm up at least until my RPMs drop. To me it's just common sense. It seems like that is the car's way of signaling that it's reached operating temperature and is ready to go. Can't imagine we wouldn't have heard about this long ago if it was a legitimate issue. Thanks for another great video!
I think the purpose of that is to get the catalytic converter up to temperature so it can do its thing.
I do that too! I also live in Colorado and drive a Subaru ( I know driving a Subaru in Colorado is not rare at all lol)
My BRZ idles for a minute or two before the rpm drops, by then I know the car's good to go but I always give it a tad longer to be safe, I live in Arizona and I do this always not to mention
That's what I thought my old lady, her name is Heather too.
I’m the same way with my WRX! Always wait for the rpms to drop
I've driven in Canada for well nigh 50 years now. From a stone cold engine in the morning, I've always let the engine warm up a bit while I scrape the windows and brush off the snow. You need a bit of heat in the cooling system to prevent your windows fogging up. Also it certainly doesn't hurt to let the oil warm up a bit for better lubrication before you hit the road, modern viscosities not withstanding. I've put 295,000 km (180,000 miles) on my current vehicle without any issues.
Nah you're burning up all your oil
You can actually hear how helpful the warm up is when it’s -25 outside, plus as you said you can’t see shit when the inside of the windows freeze and the defrosters r still shooting cold air
@@philpyung4831 Most persons are not going jump into a car in -10deg C or colder and start driving, unless they are pressed for time (and that can be a hazard). Most Canadians are going to start the car, and while the car is warming up (engine & cabin), they clear the snow/ice from the windows or wait....Also as the poster indicated if we start to drive before the car actually warms up it becomes a hazard. The windows fog up and you cant see jack.....When I just moved to Canada I didn't know that and tried what you suggest...had to pull over and wait or risk hitting someone or something. Nah let that oil burn. 245,000+ km and counting.
I use to do the same routine when I lived in North Dakota when it was -25F in the morning.
I am in Québec . As you are aware I think Ms. Winter is harsher out here . I scrape the ice then get into the car and drive at around 20-40 kms it does not take long before the engine is warm and you can feel it then increase my speed never had any problems as such.
I am in Canada, and I use the electric block heater to keep the block warm, saves fuel by the engine going off fast idle a lot sooner, and the cabin warms up faster as well.
YES! Why more people don't know about this is surprising. It warms the motor to around 35-40F above ambient.
Haha save gas.... burn hydro
@@izaakb Diesel only right
@@adairjanney7109 no, gas too
@@izyb6608 hmm, I did a search and cannot find anyone that knows where a stock heater plug would be, people make it sound like every engine has a place for one I dont think that mine does. This did give me an idea though, I am more worried about my transmission, seeing I am at 260k miles. So I am going to get one of those adhesive heater units like 1000w and stick it to the transmission housing where the oil might be, have it so I can disconnect and connect somewhat easy through the hood etc and have it on at night in the winter
Yikes... so the "experts" in that article say that putting load/strain on a cold engine won't hurt it.
But at the same time, they tell us (in the next paragraph 5:53) that driving a cold engine under load will hurt the engine until the blue light goes away... as you're driving under load as per their advice.
But idling it (which is the exact opposite of driving under load) will hurt it as well.
What.
Also... they quoted NAPA as giving this advice, when actually they only quoted them for EV advice.
Very deceptive.
Great video. I've lived all my life in Maine. Drove 3 Outbacks and now driving my fantastic 2022 Forester Wilderness. I've never had a heated/insulated garage, so when it's cold I start the car, clean the snow off my car and then check that the little blue light has gone out. Been doing this for 30 years and never an issue. Warming up your vehicle in the cold is just good practice.
I follow the advice in my Subaru handbook and let it warm up until the blue temperature light goes out. The Manufacturer knows best. 😊👍
I made a big investment and had a petrol heater installed in my 2014 Forester XT. Living in Sweden, it is a nice feeling to have a warm engine and cabin before taking off when it's well below 0 degrees Fahrenheit :)
I've been arguing this my whole life, some people think I'm only letting the car warm up to heat the cab, some think I'm just wasting time and "it'll warm up faster if I drive". I had a girlfriend go on her phone before, and think she debunked me warming up my engine, because of the same nonsense like at the start of the video.
I take good care of my cars. I keep them clean, on time with oil changes, and I grew up waiting for engines to warm up. I'm not about to change that. I have never had engine trouble before. Everything I ever drove went close to or above 300 thousand miles. Being in the northeast it's usually that the car rots out around me with a strong engine still in it. No matter what though, it's *MY* car, so I do what I want. They don't pay for repairs, i do. They can beat on theirs however they want. If I don't ask for their advice it's because I don't want it.
@@derealized797Fluid film or Krown.
I treat my car like am old person. Slow and easy to it's warmed up. Mfgs want you replacing your car a$ap
Yeah....reading the manual is better than asking the mechanics at the dealership they just tell you to go ahead and drive it. Ya don't have to wait until the light goes out.
I agree with your opinion completely. FYI my 1999 Subaru outback 30 anniversary currently has 1.19 million miles on it I attributed to two things. As we put most of the miles on it in Northern Vermont we always warmed our engine up number two I have always done regular maintenance on it and when one item goes I replaced the other one also such as a CV joint or shocks anything that comes in pairs or quads. The first thing we did when we bought our new Subaru was literally driving to a remote start installation service and installed a aftermarket remote start and I had them set the runtime at the longest interval which is about 15 minutes. On cold days we make sure to park it with the heat and all defrosters on and let it time out when we remote start it at 15 minutes. Sometimes we even run it through two cycles. The car has survived temperatures of -42 not wind chill in Northern Vermont. Now we live in Central Indiana but whenever the temperature goes below 32 we always use the remote start and have a nice warm running car to get into which I should add is also safe because it is fully de-iced. I enjoy your videos very much thank you. I am 71 years old and still enjoy working on our Subarus are more recent Subaru is a 2010 outback. Much lower quality than our 99 Subaru however with proper care and maintenance and of course remote start on cold weather we consider it our low mileage Subaru with only 256,000 mi on it :-)
I love my 2011 Outback Limited and it has 150,000 Its doing great I take very good care of my baby cypress (color) of Subaru Peace
Video or not true
Great story Philip, we have had Subarus for 20 years now, last three have been Outbacks, currantly driving a 08 2.5SE. My previous was a 2001 VDC H6, and just like yourself I noticed the quality issues, the plastic tailgate, the skittish feel in comparison when on rough tarmac sections, all sorts of little things that make the newer car feel cheaper in my eyes but only noticeable if you have owned an earlier model.
I have a set of 16 inch wheels from the VDC, may try those as prefer a softer ride, and the ability to drive up kerbs etc. the 17inch wheels look good, but not convinced yet.
If I could have found a low miler 2000-3 H6 I would have bought it in a heartbeat, I think as do others these were the best years build wise.
Can't complain about the gas milage for sure, but sure miss the smooth torque and overtaking power for sure of the H6, I suppose all that saved weight had to have a knock on effect, prefer the rear seat fold down system, hate the complicated sat nav unit, miss being unable to turn off VDC when in deep mud or snow.
Older cars get a rough time here in the UK as our Government love to spread rocksalt on the roads, so rust can be a killer, also careless owners and abuse can shorten cars lives if used hard for towing etc.
Mine is barely run in at 115,000 so hopefully apart from the usual Subaru niggles, will se me through, all the best and may all your gaskets be oiltight, and many more happy miles!
254,000 on my 2004 Subaru Outback and running till I get a newer Subie...
@@kennyrojas4014 Same here! Kenny 2 Kenny, this is my first subie and I'm already glad I made the choice. It's more practical than my Denali, cheaper to maintain, and has more ground clearance. I couldn't change my oil without lifting the GMC up in the air. I'm learning as I go.
Great video on warming up your Subaru engine in the cold. As Robert explains around 14:40, the importance of warming up to warm idle is paramount. As the owner of two Foresters and working on countless other Subarus with CVT’s over the years. Warming up your engine to the point of warm base idle (closed loop) will also preserve your CVT. Putting your CVT equipped Subaru in gear at high idle eventually ruins the forward / reverse clutches in the CVT. After tearing apart a few CVT’s with worn out forward / reverse clutches and returning them to the owner upon completion of rebuild. I have the owner start and drive the car. In every instance, the owner starts the car and puts it into gear at high idle. It is at this point where I try to explain why the forward / reverse clutches on their CVT failed. Depending on whether you put your CVT equipped vehicle in gear at high RPM or low RPM can and will make the difference between your CVT lasting 50,000 miles or 500,000 miles. The worse is when you are in high idle, put it in reverse to let’s say, back out of a driveway. While still at high idle, you put it in drive. Those are two transmission engagements at high idle which is double bad. Putting your CVT equipped Subaru in gear at low idle could be the single most important thing you can do to extend the life of your CVT. As I’ve told my kids who also drive CVT equipped Subarus. Only put it into gear at high idle if you are being chased by zombies, werewolves or criminals.
So very true!
@@coreturkoane5570 This is true of manuals as well. I just bought a 23 crosstrek and it races 1800RPM in warmup. You work the clutch very differently when its idling that high. I took me a while to get used to it and I'm sure I put more wear and tear on the clutch in that time. Now if I engage a gear at that idle, I don't add any gas with the gas pedal at all. Doing so can easily cause you to get a slight burning smell. If I could turn off the high idle, I would. I don't like it at all.
@@mbeacom21 so you have to wait until it's warmed up to operating temperature then?
@@coreturkoane5570 No, I just don't use any gas. I let the high revs power the movement. Seems to work well enough.
@@mbeacom21 ok, yeah I wouldn't use the accelerator either.
Thank you Mr Subaru. I just bought my first Subaru and I love it. And now that I found you and all your great content I know more about how to maintain the car I own and love. I appreciate you and I’m grateful for your content. God bless.
Canada here: my wife has a 17 Outback and I have a 23 F150 3.5 Eco-boost, we both idle our engines until the rpm's drop by 2 to 300 revs before we start motoring away. On -10c or colder we'll plug in the block heaters (on timers).
Great site, lots of useful info!
Geoff
I totally agree with you, warm it up, let fluids get warm and flowing properly and let the metals warm up to expand to normal tolerances
Exactly! That's why I start, drive slow and let it warm up much faster than sitting.
@@jake51515 yep, slow driving is literally warming up a car... But better. People act like sitting at idle does something different under the hood. Letting the oil pump circulate oil while driving slowly will get oil around the engine and up to temp faster than idling.
Thank You Mr. Subaru !! Excellent Accurate explanation for the Modern Subaru Blue Temp Light . 100% in agreement let warm up until the Blue light turns off.
So glad you saw this and had the same response as I did to it. I always warm my engines up before driving. Even after my engine is warm I still take it east to let the transmission and diff fluids warm up before I get on the highway and reach higher speeds. Oil ratings also dictate operating temperatures. Thicker oil is going to flow slower than thinner oil in the cold. So warming up the oil will help ensure that its doing its best to lubricate everything.
I live up in Canada and during the winter it's not uncommon to get -20C to -30C and when I warm up the car I set the parking brake and put the transmission in neutral (automatic) so the pump circulates allowing it to warm up. I will mostly do this around -15C and colder. I also let it run for 20 minutes once it get's colder than -18C. Also, the oldest car I own is a 2005 Honda CR-V I bought brand new and it now as 350,000KM on it and have never had any problems with the engine for letting it idle that long. I do all the normal servicing and still bring it to the dealer for trans flushes and diff service, oil changes I do myself when it warm out but I even bring it to the dealer to have them in the winter.
One additional thing to consider is that warming up your engine does not warm up the transmission or the differential etc. So either way drive the car gently for a while and remember that lubricants take longer to warm up than coolant. In really cold weather it may take 30 to 60 minutes for lubricants to temperature stabilize so easy does it. My rule of thumb is to start the car before cleaning off the snow and ice and wait until idle speed gets below 1000 RPM before gently driving off.
I'm a "first time watcher." I greatly appreciate that you paired together logic and correct information.....what a combo! 😂 I have avoided idling my car(s) to decrease excess emissions from the standpoint of the efficiencies of the catalytic converter. I have driven my Subaru Crosstrek with the little blue temperature light on and as you said, bundled up, using the heated seat, and trying not to breath (at least not on the windshield.) Your point about the "idling up" is well received. I don't prefer the way the car "feels" before it has reached the recommended operating temperature. And I'm guessing at that point my emissions are higher (I think it's a reasonable assumption.) While I would normally start the car and drive forward very slowly some distance, I will now allow it to idle a bit - and not feel guilty! I've had my 2021 Model Crosstrek a few months now. Prior to that I was driving a 2007 Corolla. And before that a 1993 Nissan Sentra with a manual transmission .I believe that companies such as Subaru are doing well to expand the sophistication and features on modern cars to make them perform better on many levels. Of course, these features have to be used the way they are designed to be used. I appreciate that you helped me increase my understanding.
Congratulations, someone who finally correctly says "end-quote" instead of "un-quote". And as always, great information.
Upon starting my Forester, I always wait until the high idle drops down to about 700 rpm before driving. It just feels right to do so. And yes I always wait for the blue light to go out.
That's how I roll. Just drive sensibly once the idle drops. Remember that cvt needs to warm up also.
I have a 2015 Forester XT 2.0 and I always wait for that little blue light to go out and idle to drop. I watch a YT video several years ago and the guy said there's a heat exchanger on the Forester that uses the coolant to warm up the CVT transmission fluid. I don't want to take any chances and cause my transmission to wear out prematurely. I already replaced it at 115k because of the front differential going bad and it's part of the transmission internals.....$8k
The light goes off at 140 deg
@@ihatesocialnetworkin I've owned two Foresters and the blue light on each would always go off at 122F.
I am with you with this. Runs better with lower rpms.
Your channel has been an amazing repository that’s helped me fix up and maintain my 04 XT Forester. In the past 3 weeks I’ve fixed so many issues with my car and have gotten it back to running like new, all DIY. From CV axels to power steering, idle relearn and a bunch more. Thank you for the great step by step guides.
I just found this video as we roll into winter in December 2023. I have always felt it made sense to let a gasoline engine warm up, especially in frigid weather. What great video with a great explanation.
Thanks for the notification. It has to be old-timers myth though. Another thing that I recently heard is that you should not turn off the engine (with turbo) right after turning down from the highway (driving at high speeds). To get gasoline or similar. You should keep engine running when parked for another minute.
I always let my vehicles warm up a little bit, especially in the winter living in MT. My Subaru started up even when we had -28°F temps not including wind chill! Love my 07 Outback!
Cars only feel ambient temperature, wind chill doesn't effect them.
Source? Highly doubt you are correct.
@@yoloparrot42
Wind chill is the effect of wind blowing the heat your body has generated away from your skin, exposing your skin to the ambient temperature. Since the car is not producing any heat when off, there is nothing to blow away.
I've always been a supporter of warming up the engine, and I always cite the same expansion/contraction reference you made when explaining this to other people. We have temperatures that drop to below -40 up here in Canada, so for small engine cars I usually, after 2-3 mins of running, suggest taking off slowly and maintaining an RPM at or below 2000 until the gauge starts to read. Otherwise, the car will never actually warm up at those temperatures.
Excellent video! And I agree entirely with your logic.
This seems to be the most common sense way of doing it. And it is EXACTLY how I warm up my new car as well
This has to be one of the most common-sense explanations I've heard. Yes, I warm up the car before driving you can feel the difference how the car responds from when its cold verses warmed up. You just reaffirmed what I've been doing when its very cold. I would think this would apply to all cars in cold climates.
You are absolutely correct, I worked in a diesel engine shop for years, I remember the old GM motors that had the cast iron blocks
& alum.cyl. heads, rebuilt a good many of them, because people wouldn't let them warm up. Enjoyed your video, those guys just
want to sell more parts. The ones that are telling you to drive off in the cold.
Hi Mr Suburu, great channel, subbed 6 months and often check out your content, thanks for sharing your knowledge. You state sensible facts and logic, I totally agree with you. My wife drive a 2013 forester here in central Canada, the cold part lol, we always warm up the car, and will continue, NO matter what environmentals say...
The CVT on Subarus is meant to specifically run a certain weight oil and it's only at that weight after it warms up so I warm it up for my CVT more than the engine.
Older cars don't have heaters in the transmission so while letting it idle will warm the engine it won't warm up the tranmission. Most cars will be limited to second gear (or the cvt equivilent) when cold to help warm the transmission fluid faster.
Only way cvt warms is in drive and moving.
@@BitWalker Older cars have a heat exchanger in the radiator, that the transmission fluid flows into and back to the transmission.
@@robertkraft2358 My understanding is that the heat exchanger for the tran only exchanges to ambient air and therefore can only be used to cool the engine. In my expereince no amount of idle will warm a CVT transmission, I've left my car running for over an hour before when we had a power outage and I ran power to the house from an inverter. The engine temps were at operating but when I went to change parking spots the transmission was still slugish.
Great vid and info. I have a 2022 Mazda CX-9 and it also has the same blue temp light "feature" and the manual also states the same about letting the car warm up before driving. The dealership I purchased from stated that it's "okay" to drive while said light is on as long as you don't enable Sport Mode or accelerate hard until the light has turned off. Thanks again for the info 👍
Thanks for making this. There are so many hobbyist channels about cars particularly subarus where the owners of the channel make claims like you don't have to wrm up the engine before driving, or engine break ins are a sham. We need more educated techs like yourself spreading true information that eont lead to premature failure
Happy Christmas from Jamaica. I live in tropical climate all year long and I do warm up my 2008 Impreza every morning until the light goes off before hitting the road.
Thank you! I have looked in my owners manual and did not find this recommendation. I have always owned older cars, late 90’s so very used to warming up my vehicles. I also heard that it was not necessary to warm up my Subaru😮 I have never started my car in the winter and just took thankfully. However I do let it idle and then will drive under 30 until cold temp gauge goes off. Not anymore thankfully to you !!!
Great point about driving immediately with a fogged up windshield! Safety first, no matter what is recommended! I think this is all about fuel economy standards and manufacturers and governmental agencies making sure no fuel is wasted while the car is warming up. Of course you should let your car warm up for a few minutes. The engine oil and coolant, the trans fluid, the differential fluids are all at ambient temperature when you first start the vehicle. It’s just common sense to let those fluids warm up a bit before driving. And for me, even after I start driving, I take it easy until the operating temps are near normal. Good video, thanks.
The differential doesn't warm up unless the car is moving - ditto the tires and brakes, etc.
@@charleshuffman6982 This is true, thanks for clarifying. I guess the exception would be vehicles like the Subaru, and the Toyota RAV4 that have the front differential built into the transaxle, these might get some slight warming of the fluid from the transmission and possibly the engine during warmup.
Ed - Agree 100%.
@@charleshuffman6982 I have a long driveway so sometimes after I've clear the windows I will drive back and forth so I'm technically not idling. I don't think we have any regulations about idling in the driveway where I live but I could be wrong.
I have a 2021 Subaru, my first automatic transmission in maybe 50 years. I ALWAYS warm the engine (all year round) till the little blue cold light goes out and the idle drops to 700 or 800. I refuse to drop it into gear while at high (cold) idle (1800 rpm in my car). Putting it into gear at 1800 rpm has to be an issue with the CVT in the long term. Ain't happening in my car. Needless to say I really make great use of the remote start, especially during the winter in NY.
Nice presentation.
I have 2016 forester and live in Phoenix. I have never waited for the blue light to go out before driving. I’ve never done anything different on any vehicle I had before this one either. I just drive gently and easy for the first few miles. The rpm’s drop as soon as I shift into reverse or drive so I don’t get the difference between warming at high rpm idle or lower rpm gentle driving.
Happy New Year Robert!!!
Thank you for all the videos this past year and looking forward to seeing more videos from you this year.
I will add - the car warms up faster if you don’t turn on the heater/defrost UNTILthe little blue light goes off. 🎉
I have a 2013 XV Crosstrek. I live in NE Washington. In the winter, I generally let it warm up for anywhere between 1-3 minutes, or maybe closer to 5 minutes if the temp is 10 degrees or less. The amount of time I let it warm up depends on the ambient temp outside.
little do people know, an engine that never turns off and idles vs one that cycles constantly ; the engine running forever would last longer since its not subjected to thermal stress/expansion
How does anything you just said comply with what does videos about? This is about warming up an engine not long-term idling.
yes, but 'last longer' meaning what exactly? In other words, the whole pt of this vid is about the debate in engineering auto ICE engines, re warming up causing damage , which idle-type warm ups do cause a bit of damage in some ICE gasoline engines. Your topic is different, and really has no practical application except when discussing the value of a used car. If a mechanic or experienced person can get some indication that a car had mostly highway miles and was not a daily driver, then that car is indeed a much better condition car, overall.
(bcuz heat cycles are what age everything)
Excessive idling after reaching normal operating temperature can cause engine problems like carbon buildup. But this mainly applies to work vehicles that may be left running at a work site for hours at a time. For the average driver, this is not an issue.
I questioned my education in automotive technology when I read this article. Thank you for the video.
Love this!!! I'm in MA, and always warm up my vehicles.
I'm glad they know pistons and cylinders are important to help your engine run
I always let it idle for a minute or two, and then drive slowly until the engine is fully warm to get the fluids moving around. I think we need to consider the fluids in the differential and transmission too. I've been doing this for years and have 250,000 on a V6 Malibu and 170,000 on a Grand Marquis. Both run like new, don't burn oil, and have never let me down.
When it's really cold I warm up my vehicles the fluids are thicker than normal so you end up putting extra stress on your fluid pumps especially if you just start it up and drive off. The extra stress may not amount to anything but the thermo expansion of pistons, heads, and cylinder blocks can cause issues if one expands faster than the others
I think oil temp is more important than coolant temp for the longevity of your engine. But I will always let the STi warm up before taking off and keep it under 4k rpm's until operating temp. How long is dependent on how cold. At least wait until I see the temp needle move and hit its first line, usually within 3-5 mins. (I'm in CO btw)
I keep my rpm’s within 2k rpm’s before operating temps. I live in California so I guess it’s not necessary but it gives me peace of mind.
Same.
Yep. I let mines warm up until the dash temp gets to half way then don’t go over 4k rpm’s for another 2/3 minutes. Especially with boosted cars I’ve always been told to let the car warm up. It’s the oil temp & expansion of the engine components that are the important thing.
@@anthonyparra9553 3 k is doable
I doubt idling damages the engine. I normally just easy on it until it's warm during the week. -10°f it idles until warm.
2001 F150 with 241k on it. Same timing chain and heads have never been remove. Been warming it up for over 20 years and no problem. Motor is still strong as ever. Change the oil regularly and that is it. Still strong and pulls my 5000 pound boat with ease
2003 Subaru 200K miles. Never warm the engine EVER. I take it easy till the car is warmed up.
Change the oil every around 5k the damn thing burns oil like it's no ones business.
My dad has a Silverado with 240k miles. Never has been warmed up in its life. The damn thing has the original transmission, and engine. I cannot believe that thing is still kicking. Idk how often he replaces the oil.
This is all location based. Follow your manual. If they stay to warm it warm it if they don't it doesn't matter.
Same here. 2002 wrx 243000 miles. take it slow until at operating temp, and change oil every 3-5k. @@seemlesslies
Exactly I mostly warm up to have the engine and transmission fluids do their thing and let the engine disperse heat evenly. I’ve been doing this for 50 years👍 this man is smart💪
Very well explained! I read the exact same article and came to the same conclusion as you and others did. The article made 0 sense to me as I rationally thought “The oil will be circulating from the oil pump regardless of wether the engine is idling or the vehicle is being driven. Thank you for clarifying this and putting it to rest. Sadly, there are going to be people out there who will take this at face value and follow it. Those people are going to be the ones risking potential engine failure at some point. I also drive a Subaru and do let it warm up for several minutes before driving away. I live in Canada and believe me, on COLD winter days, I not only have the block heater plugged in but also start and warm up the engine before driving away. I’ve found in my experience two things: one - if I don’t do this, my transmission is sluggish etc; two - that blue engine temp icon takes roughly 2 - 4 minutes to go off indicating that the engine is sufficiently warmed up. To drive away to prematurely risks damage to the CVT and I’d rather not have to pay that bill to get that repaired/replaced!
Thanks again!!!
just, no! repeat after me: the engineer designers literally designed the car engine and other parts to warm up so quickly after u start engine that it's safest and easiest on the engine to start driving at your earliest convenience, ie, within that first minute or two. They designed the system to NOT be harmed (in fact opposite) from driving immediately after starting. This is a FACT and all the mfr's have data on it and it's in the design specs. I like facts. And i like buying used cars from ppl who follow the instructions of the mfr!
I've got a 22 Outback with 18,000 mi on it and live in Massachusetts and I'm not sure I've ever seen the blue light! In any case I do warm up the engine but I do it my way. I start the engine and basically drive immediately but very gently. I keep the rpms at 2000 or under for the first couple of miles. This means I will actually pull over to the side of the road if there are people behind me wanting to pass. I would never, never gun the engine immediately after starting on a cold day and am really glad I don't live right next to an interstate where I'd have to get up to speed immediately. I'm 70 years old and hike a lot but I don't hike quickly up steep hills at the beginning of my hike. I give my body a chance to warm up - my heart rate, lungs, joints, muscles, etc. I treat my car gently the same way!
Have a 17 Outback and don’t remember seeing that blue light they keep talking about.
My 18 outback has never had this light on before.
I have been more intentional since my last oil change about letting my 14 crosstrek warmup even in the summer, but especially in the fall/winter for a few minutes until the lights off before driving and I think it has helped to keep my oil level consistent with out any noticeable consumption taking place.
U either have the oil issue or u don’t with that model. U obviously got a good one so did I. Sold my 14 Trek was so gutless and uncomfortable on highway trips. Definitely a City car. My 3.6 Outback is dreamy on long highway trips.
Thank you for the information, (the whole oil pump not working at idle thing seemed kind of silly) but I always thought that the cold engine light was for the CVT as a reminder not to accelerate to harshly until the CVT internals are up to 140 deg. Additionally, when it is cold, I usually wait until the engine is warmed up. Once I am driving the blue light is still on, the RPM will be higher than I usually see it at. After the blue light is extinguished the engine RPM will normally drop off top what I consider a normal RPM range, this usually takes about three to five minutes depending how cold it is.
My 07 Outback XT has the blue light and if it's on, it prevents you from putting the car into S# mode, so yes, it's definitely to prevent the engine from being revved too high.
Love when you showed the blue temp light. My light is green & there is a red light when it gets too hot. Imagine that. In 1962 that was standard in Chevy trucks. As the engine warms up the green light fades out. The main reason for that is to give the temperature time to come up enough to open the thermostat. The open thermostat let's the warmed coolant to circulate through the radiator. It's real crucial with my 261ci six cylinder. Yes I am in the middle of doing the timing belt & water pump kit on my 1997 Subaru legacy Outback 2.5l. That's how I found your channel.👍
Been going back and forth with a friend of mine about this. I drive a 98 Subaru Forester and I can tell a distinct difference in the way my car drives when I don’t warm to when I do. I just feels like the parts aren’t moving as smoothly and actually feels like I have less horsepower when driving on a cold engine. Firm believer in warming up your car to less than 1,000 rpm before taking off.
Makes sense to warm up. I’ve notice in my 2018 Crosstrek gets about 90 km until it goes down 1 bar of gas in the summer but in the winter it’s about 70 km. I lose about 20 km in the winter due to warming up because on this cold days or nights I’ve sat in my car waiting 5 to 6 min for the blue light to go out. But I think it’s important especially for the cvt to be warm.
I am new to both an outback H6 and an engineer and You have correct logic and love your videos Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
Keep up those videos!
I saw the exact "Verified" report a few days ago. It made me laugh out loud! The absolute ignorance of the statements from those so-called "technicians." I'm a lifelong mechanic/technician, engine builder and automotive machinist. And their excuses of why you don't warm your engine is the most ignorant statements I've ever heard!
well the engineering/engineers do bear this out, and fleets of gas vehicles acknowledge this, though of course practical demands are a factor too, ie the need for driver to be warm enough to operate vehicle safely!
@@18_rabbitthe need for the cabin to be warm enough to SEE THRU THE INSIDE OF THE WINDSHIELD!!!
@@18_rabbitBull
15:00 onward is when he mentions what you need to know imo, I recommend a digital temperature and voltage monitor that plugs into OBD, most cold nights the engine is around 0 C, I like to see it rise 20 degrees before I drive trying to keep it below 2K rpm by using higher gears until blue lite goes off at 50 C, my impreza runs at around 93C. Having those 2 as gauges gives a better indicator of issues and I want to monitor those #'s.
I typically let it warm
Up for ~2 minutes and try to ease into my driving right off the bat. My dad always taught us back in the day to not let it idle for extended amount of time.
It is illegal to let your car run unattended in NC (like anyone gives a $hit if it’s in your driveway, etc).
I guess I still have enough distrust not to leave it idling so it won’t get stolen!
Great timing on this post, thanks!
That is just completely crazy and ridiculous. If that’s the case my dad‘s 85 c10 should’ve took a dirt nap a long time ago. In the winter time he would let it run 10 to 15 minutes before taking off. It has almost 400,000 miles on it, it has the 4.3 V6 in it and a four barrel carburetor.
@@petemitchell6788 I have been told that I have a gas tank for a brain and nos run’s in my veins and No all the truck I have rude in had working exhaust system because we had e check back then 😁😆
That’s an 1985 carb c10 so warming it 10 to 15 minutes will not damage it he is saying of newer vehicle which that c10 is 37 years old man!
I appreciate your input. Both of my cars sit still till at least SAI has completed its cycle and the idle drops. I then begin driving gently. Especially the flat 6. My beater is all aluminum as well. I wait till at least 180 F before I break 3000 rpm. In the flat 6. The beater is a pooch. So no need to hammer on either of them till some slow building heat has occurred. Thanx for the information. I’ll sit a little longer. The temp I speak of, is oil temperature.
I think it's a good idea to warm up your engine before driving, though I'm guilty of taking off sooner than I should, but where I live, I really can't go over 25 for about a mile, so I drive about 20 mph in second gear and the engine isn't running much above idle. The blue light usually goes off after about a half mile. It doesn't get very cold here in northern Arizona anyway. Flagstaff can get very cold, but the elevation isn't so high where I live.
Thank you Mr. Subaru for confirming my long held belief. I currently have a 2017 legacy, and just bought a 2018 Crosstrek. The legacy has a gauge, the Crosstrek does not. It has the blue light. I always let a cold engine warm up before going anywhere.
wow, I just bought my parent's 2011 Subaru out back, an for the last week I have been wondering what is this lil blue Temp light, Mr Subaru you get a GOLD star, an a blue ribbon, an me subscribing to this informative channel!
Hi from Canada. if i can see out the windows I'm ready to drive. That seems to work at any temp down to -40. of course at -40 the block heater is plugged in. with full synthetic i never used the block heater until about -20c
I always let my Crosstrek warm up until it goes into closed loop (blue light off) for the reasons noted in the video, but also to avoid unnecessary wear/stress on the CVT by dropping it into gear when the cold idle is still high at 1,800 RPM.
Agreed 100%. Has to hurt dropping it into gear at 1800 rpm. I always wait till the idle drops to normal (700 or 800), which happens mere seconds after the blue light goes out.
It still has a torque converter, which is going to absorb any high idle "stress" from putting it into gear. Any extra wear you might be thinking about isn't enough to matter unless you plan on that transmission doing 1,000,000 miles. Probably not even then.
I have been seeing this come up a lot lately. It just never made sense to drive off with a cold engine. Then again I grew up driving cars that needed to be warmed up or they wouldn't even run right lol. I have an 01' Forester and where I live, with wind chill, the temp in the winter can easily be -20 F. I wouldn't dream of NOT warming it up. By far the best car I have ever had for winter driving. Great video.
Wind chill is a human creation, but yeah.
I always wait 5 mins before driving off during the winter.
@@Yohane350 I know wind chill is real. I ride motorcycles and go hunting lol. also with out wind chill it is 2 degrees F out so yeah its cold. (I mean this light hearted lol I know wind chill doesnt effect your car.)
@@collinmc90 I will say though, I don't know if this is a thing, but when the wind is strong enough and the intake (ie: the grille) is facing the wind, the car starts harder (cold knocking as well), revs higher and takes longer to warm up.
The sitch has to align just right, but it has happened too many times to just be a coincidence: colder wind definitely seems to affect my Outback.
@@ChristianGiaconiBonaguro You know this makes a lot of sense actually. I mean we have air cooled engines right? wind speed has to effect the temperature of a warm engine otherwise they would all over heat? hmm So I guess it would make sense that if the air coming in was really really cold it would mess with detonation in the cylinder. just my guess. I mean people install cold air intakes to improve performance but if an engine isn't tuned for that maybe it hurts performance? again just my thoughts.
Another point is that some cars have oil squirters to keep the piston skirts lubricated. Another thing is that it's good to let the battery charge a little before putting more of a load on it. That's one of the reasons why Alternators die when in extreme cold or extreme heat. I called out this article when I heard it too.
I'm glad you're a video on this. I don't let my kids or my wife go anywhere without warming up the cars, they're all 2014's. I've always warmed everything with that being said, you can't even move your diesel truck, bold or new without warming it up these wackles. We got working. Gotta get their head out of their a**, thank you Mr.
If newer cars with lots of plastic parts get those plastic parts get too hot too many times they'll fail eventually. You are totally correct about modern EFI engines, I was startled to hear that article you read, I must have been written by someone who knows little about internal combustion engines. Also driving away, gently, the engine will warm up faster then letting it idle for a long period of time. I have lived in Chicago, Colorado, Alaska and Michigan all my life and did controlled studies with each new car I've owned for the last 45 years. They all warmed up faster if you drove them, gently, than letting them idle for a long time.
A car will warm up faster if you drive it gently than idling. Gentle driving will take the engine up to, let say 2000rpm.
The engine warms up due to the amount of explosions in the combustion chambers and the friction of the components. These are both greatly increased if the engine is at 2000rpm.
The problem is, the oil in the engine is not warm enough to lubricate properly at 2000rpm under load.
@Harvey Smith second this. I installed an oil pressure gauge in my car, and the cold start reading is at over 100 psi. High oil pressure isn't always a good case when the oil isn't properly warmed up. Cus the oil isn't as free flow as it should be, all oil has an optimal operating temperature window. Too low or too high is bad for the engine. My best analogy is when the engine oil is too cold. It's like trying to run Mapple syrup through your metal bearings. Sometimes, those syrup don't have enough juice to get to the dedicated spot to lubricate the engine parts while underload.
@@VinRZ Spot on.
@@harveysmith100 People just forget that atleast here...there is nothing gentle about when you drive in the snowdrifts and clogged up winter roads when it has been snowing :D but anyway the article lacks any real info. you dont need to actually wait for 15 minutes to warm up the engine..but common sense says that 1 or 2 minutes of letting all things get going smoothly does nothing but good when you like clear the snow off the car in the meanwhile.
@@nekoroms I disagree, it is possible to drive gently in snow, infact it's best to drive gently in snow.
I have always felt that the mixed metals in the modern engines having different coefficients of expansion was a legitimate reason for the warm up.
That's what S&S says about motorcycle engines. The pistons, cylinders and heads all expand at different rates. They need time to snug up against each other.
The Toyota 3L six-cylinder perfect example. pretty much any cast block with aluminum heads
275,000 miles later, and 5 minutes winter warm-ups, nothing wrong with my engine yet!
Hey Icewatch, which Subaru model and year do you own?
Thanks for the logic and reality. The usual sales pitch is modern engines/oils dont need warming up ? Reality - Oils are not designed to operate at room temperature. Engines are not designed to operate at room temperature. End of debate. Would love to see you rate start/stop tech.
When I was ordering my 24 impreza rs there was accessories and features I was really considering for the car. For starters the engine block heater actually works in cold climates and helps start the car easier
Block heaters would definitely reduce the high idle warm up time in extreme cold weather. Looking at an Impreza 24 or Crown Signia. Currently driving a Impreza 2017 which has a pretty long high idle time, 2024 Impreza has a better thermostat should warm up faster
My rule of thumb, if I absolutely cannot let it warm up to the point where the blue light goes out, I'll give it a minute and a half or two minutes. If it's less than 10f out, more like two or three minutes. Or to the point where I can successfully deice the windshield, back window, and the front side windows, and they consistently stay defogged.
But most of the time I wait for the light to go out. My pharmacy benefits plan thanks me later too (I have asthma and staying longer in cold temps causes me to have to use my inhaler more).
I think you're right. Article seems like it's pushing the "green" initiative compared to what they've said years ago, "your car doesn't need to warm up" and found it doesn't work. So now they're trying this approach, which if it doesn't work, you'll likely see anti-idling laws and exec orders in the future.
I agree. When I drive Subaru I dont wait forever for that blue light. I will put it in D and let the vehicle roll on its own with no gas pedal since my neighborhood has a lot of signs to slow down anyway.
@@jeretso One of my mechanic friends say as long as you give it at least a minute and keep it under 3-4k rpm driving it afterwards, until it reaches operating temperature, it should not do extra damage. It's just for best defogger effectiveness and safety it's best to warm it up all the way which is why manufacturers typically recommend it.
It probably boils down to emissions. It pollutes more when cold. However I need heat. The heat does not work unless the engine is warm. So it will set there and run until the heat is ready to go.
Thanks once again for bringing common sense to a confusing issue. I always warm up the Subaru for at least 5 minutes in sub freezing temps. Thanks to your post I use the temperature light as an indicator.
Having grown up in 50s and 60s in upstate NY, I remember seeing temperatures cold enough to freeze radiators when cars were driven without warming up, Modern antifreezes seem to have solved that issue but I still let my car warm up for all the other reasons discussed in this excellent video.
This is great information I have a 2022 Premium WRX, and it is my first high performance car, my WRX does not have the blue light temperature symbol. But I was told by Subaru it is very important from a cold start to warm the engine up I always wait at least 2 minutes before I move , but I live in Lexington SC and here it is 13f which is really unusual and now I wait till at least my oil temperature reads 100f before I move off . Plus after driving I don’t switch it off right away I wait at least one minute before turning it off
I've owned 2 different wrxs And a sti all modified and From New and never had any issues. I Just didn't drive them hard until they warmed Up.. I started them And idled for like a minute or so then drove normal.. never had any issues in the years owning them.
@@HellofromAustralia-s8h-juan Thanks for you reply I don’t even think about going into boost until at least my oil temperature is at 185f, I just have changed the wheels, added a rear diffuser, F1 vector rear light, etc just doing cosmetic changes, I have no intention on modifying my engine, I just put on a axle back Magna flow exhaust system
@@racheldempster6655 Nice 👍 Yeah I had a 2008 WRX hatch, a 2015 WRX And a 2018 sti 😅 they're are great And reliable if you find a good tuner 😃 here in Australia I researched And found a good place. I Only sold the sti cause I needed a bigger car so got a 4wd😎
The WRX has a real temp gauge on the cluster, where as other Subarus don't have that gauge, so they wired the blue light to indicate when the car is not in operating temperature.
@@roygillotti4615 Are you talking about the outside air temperature, because all my oil and coolant is displayed on my 11 inch touch screen
Turbo cars are required to be warmed up and are more fuel efficient after they reach operating temperature.
question: I am no mechanical engineer here, but isn’t it also advantageous to let your engine warm up to also help warm up CVT transmissions? Would it be better for the CVT belt warmed up then cold? I understand it’s not gonna be Completely warmed up like the engine, but even if the transmission received some heat from the engine to help warm up the transmission belt inside, that’s also more advantageous, correct?
I think more modern cars have transmission heaters for startup now, but for ones without, it seems like this might help, but how are they really going to heat up short of having the engine move them?
The transmission coolers route through the radiator or in the case of my Forester the intercooler is warmed up by coolant . Yes it warms the transmission oil.
My Subaru provides pressure at idle the oil control rings control the amount of oil in the cyl. With every stroke. You cannot ot scrape all of the oil off as it is reapplied with each stroke. Also modern injection systems are far less likely to flood the cyl. Jesus this is bull.
@@edwardmyers8782 Using engine coolant to warm up the transmission has limited success in cold weather, as it may take many minutes to heat up the coolant first, and especially so with the latest engines which will actually stop all coolant flow entirely until the engine reaches a certain temperature. I think this is why transmissions have their own heaters now. They can use the engine coolant to remove excess heat from the transmission, but at startup they rely on their own heater to come up to normal operating temperature.
@@edwardmyers8782 well that's is for your turbocharged version. That's not the same for naturally aspirated ones, correct?
I think another reason to let the engine warm up because it's better for your CVT to give it longer life & trouble free. And I believe it is hard on the CVT to put it into drive when the engine is at fast idle warming up.
I live in Reno nv presently. The lows have been around 7 degrees even when the temps are at 32 degrees I use the remote start to warm up the engine compartment because the engine will be way much colder. When I get in my OBW I look at the temperature panel and the coolant temperature gauge. When the engine temperature is at 118 degrees then I drive off slowly and do a break check on the ice. Then I take off. I am an heavy equipment operator so I am familiar with the cold starts.
My father and grandfather were engineers for Opel for their entire careers.
They would start their vehicles and let them warm up for approximately a minute in cold weather and then drive them gently until they warmed up.
They warm up much more quickly under load then idling.
My Dad's '70 Kadett 1100 wouldn't turn the manual transmission over in neutral at idle until it warmed up a bit.
Remember those were old cars of 1960 not new cars
The argument for not warming up that I have always heard is that the fastest way to warm up your engine is to drive slowly. I’m not picking a side here but I have always noted that it takes a very long time for an engine to warm up by idling in the driveway, it does happen quicker when you drive right away.
I use remote start and know damn well it's for me and not the car, unless the temp is unusually cold, like getting below 0F cold.
I have always warmed up my Subies to operating temperature before taking off into the cold.
Besides traditional reasons for warming up, I submit Subaru’s CVT try’s to keep the engine tacking at minimal RPM’s (about 1300 - 1500 RPM) when in drive. Unless your running the highway all the time the subie doesn’t do a good job charging the battery. I have an outback and forester, never jumpstarted vehicles as much in my life (especially the 17’ forester). Just think they don’t tac enough to charge if doing local driving all the time.
(Hit send to soon) the point I was trying to make, letting the ending warm up at the programmed higher RPM helps keep the battery charged up. Again more applicable to consistent local driving.
This is a loaded question IMHO, it truly depends on what your driving and where. If it’s 30° outside and you live in a low speed neighborhood where you have time to let the car move slowly then start it up let it idle for 30sec-90 seconds. Put it in gear and let it roll. Use very light throttle and the car will warm up much faster due to the increased load of the driven force. However if it’s -10° out and your house is next to a high speed or high demand road. I.e. a Highway and your vehicle is expected to perform at its highest then letting it warm up at least to a point where you can feel warm air coming out of your heater vents is best… most good engines have had thought put into what types of alloys are used in each component and how much clearance is provided between those components and what kinds of oil is employed to aid in a liquid bearing in those clearances between those all components. The true secret to it all is how good is your oil and how clean is your oil? The quality of oil is king and no I don’t mean how much you spent on the last oil change I mean how long ago and how much fuel has your engine used sense you changed that oil. Also how clean is the air coming in that engine? Can you wipe the intake pipe with a white towel and see any visible change due to dirt/dust? that’s the key to combustion engine life….. also have you ever started an engine where it’s so cold the temperature never comes up? Then what?😂 it happens
I am definite believer of letting your car warm up, no matter the make or model. Honestly, I feel the people who said warming an engine is rough on it, received some type of compensation from the government, and is an attempt to start scaring people into buying an EV .
hit the nail on the head. this is exactly why they are saying it
???
Wow, conspiracy nuts are everywhere nowadays. Why would Firestone try to scare you into getting an EV? Most of their business comes from ICE cars.
@@drk321 government compensation or threats of being shut down by government officials. Politicians don't give a shit about anyone but themselves.
I had a neighbor who would put a brick on his accelerator and let his car rev at about 3000-3500 rpm for about 20 minutes each morning before leaving because he thought this was good for his engine. I think he took the "warming up your engine" as a good thing way too far. Strange how he always seemed to have car trouble.
How would you do that without it slamming to the floor? I don't know if I buy that
@@jake51515 I think he had a block that he put under the gas pedal so it didn't go down all the way.
that is disgusting pollution
I'm up in Alberta Canada and last week it was a solid -35⁰C every day, all day long. You bet your butt everyone up here was warming up their cars. I gave my 2010 Forester 20 mins every morning before work to warmup since I park outside, and it was just to get the windshield to defrost so I could see, and genuinely it was so cold it needed longer. Everyone at work was warming up their cars 20 mins before they all left.
So if EVERYONE is doing it, they are all correct?
@@jthomas3773 What's the point you're trying to make? It's Arctic cold. It's "You will get frostbite in minutes" cold. Welcome to Canadian Winters, everyone learns to do it otherwise by the time you make it home it's still -20⁰C inside your car with half of them still covered in frost.
If you're going to talk smack just go out and say it.
@@atracin I live within spitting distance of Canada so I know Arctic cold. The local wimps like nothing more than idling engines- they must be from the Tropics? Get in it, start it, and go, just like the OWNER'S MANUAL says.
Edit: Yeah, when I get in and go in my cold vehicle the windows fogging up can be an issue. Cracking the driver's door window open a bit and keeping a rag and scraper handy inside take care of that. It only takes a couple of minutes for the defroster to kick in after that.
Living in Texas and i always let the engine warm before driving. I purchased a 2023 subaru crosstrek because it was the last year they offered a manual shift and went straight to cvt. Watching your videos got me interestied in subaru
Sir, you are really great at explaining issues and maintenance concerns for Subarus very well. Thanks for everything.
My question is why Subaru, upon the initial cold or warm start up, goes to high idle at start up until it senses warmed up to turn off the blue light?
Isn’t it harder on the engine to lubricate the cylinders, valves, crankcase, and components to rev at higher rpm than low? Thank you. 🇺🇸
You idle at a red light, people idle waiting to pick up their partner at work, construction workers idle their cars on the site, 18 wheel tractor trailers idle for 6-8 hours in winter to get warmth, when they sleep in their cab
exactly !!!!!!!!!!!
Diesels engines are very efficient at idle compared to gasoline engines...cold starts, they are terrible
Always let a cold engine idle until the rpm drop or the temp gauge starts to move.
getting from high idle down is a good idea..but for example my mercedes van doesnt generate enough heat with its 4 liter engine to even remotely warm up the coolant to get the temp needle moving if one is not driving it in the winter temps. Engine sounds more like a cement mixer for the first 1 minute of starting and calms down after a little idling...would not even slightly think about driving when its that rough and cold.
@@nekoroms Your van has a pretty big system to warm up. My 17 year old son has a 2010 honda. This morning 14 degree F weather heard the "tap, tap, tap" valves for a second at start up. Scared him to death. I learned on a 1967 MGB GT from my dad in the 80s, manual choke. Let the engine warm up, advice has not changed. The most engine stress is in cold weather, fact.
I 'was' an IC engine lubrication engineer (Mech Engr. and Physical Chemist - particles) for the early years of my practice. Cajun Aggie is spot on (see posting below). Start the engine, and DRIVE it 'gently' & WITHOUT extreme loads (Eg. - rapid accelerations) applied ..... until the engine 'heat soaks' to its proper operating (gage) temperature. Cold engines operated at idle take LONGER to warm up to their DESIGNED operating temperatures AND engine bearing clearances, and will usually have a 'rich' fuel mixture which will ultimately dilute the oil and ultimately, over time, lower the oil's viscosity ... the proper viscosity is what prevents metal to metal 'crashes' in the journal bearings, etc. Starting an engine is the time of maximum wear; so, if you have a very expensive engine (aren't they all expensive, now), consider to install a 'start-up pressure oiler' so you will start with ***full oil pressure*** in the oil lube system -- about 20-30 seconds without an add-on pressure oiler ( I use an aux. OBD-II read-out gage on my 'dash-board(s)' to monitor oil temp. and pressure during 'start'.)
*** Other and FWIW: Especially with the more 'modern' engines that use 'LOW TENSION' piston rings' ({govt. mandated} to result in 'better' fuel milage) are VERY vulnerable to becoming jammed or 'stuck' due to carbon build up in the piston ring grooves; can cause premature engine wear/failure (becoming VERY common).
Rx:
1. if you drive a high percentage of your time in 'stop and go' conditions with lots of accelerating AND idling, --- Consider to change the oil, (and filter) at HALF the recommended oil change-out interval.
2. The usual 'published' oil change-out recommendations apply to constant, steady-steady state, 'open higway' speeds w/ cruise control ON !!! Such constant steady-state driving will characteristically only cause ~1/10 of the internal engine wear in comparison to 'beating' a cold engine and/or stop and go driving with 'heavy' accelerating.
The overall long term cost of 'good' oil, changed regularly and based on 'actual' driving conditions, is characteristically much CHEAPER than an engine 'rebuild' or 'new' vehicle. FWIW - I routinely get 250k++ miles out of a 'decent' engine. I routinely add a carbon reducing compound to clean out the piston ring grooves every other 'normal' (6k) oil change. Do 'regularly' change the oil yourself !!!! Hope this helps.
absosososolutely spot on!
I’ve a 2022 Outback XT. I warm my engine up until the oil temp reaches 120°. I learned a few things about turbocharged engines. Learned it best to let the oil in the turbo cool off and cycle before turning off the engine. I do this for a couple of minutes if I’m driving around town close to home. Now if I’m on the road at high speeds and pull of the road to say gas up, I read it’s best to let that oil in the turbo to cycle for maybe five minutes before shutting the engine off. I also don’t ‘horse’ the turbo, it’s best to have the ‘take it easy’ mindset.
I've used the factory remote starter in my 2017 Forester every winter since I bought it new, 7ish years ago. I usually let it run 3-5 minutes, and have never encountered any issues. The car just turned 100K, and runs like new.
Why would subaru remove the temperature gauge 🤦🏽♂️. Just a light
I think it makes sense to see the actual temperature
Oh I agree. We need a temp gauge. But, the light is better than nothing.
All my subarus are 05 and 06 and are solid vihecles. I worked on a 2010 and noticed the missing gauge 🤦🏽♂️. Was not happy with subaru and the horrible CVT
To be fair to Subaru, those temp lights do work. A red one comes on when you start overheating.
2015 outback still has the gauge