Yeah. Honestly all this TulAmmo, Wolf, whatever, it's all the same stuff to me. I just think of it all as "Wolf", even though that's not correct. ~Karl
That's why I still have a few cases of Yugo m67 7.62.39. I only use it at the indoor range but I don't go there often... the M67 is corrosive so it does mean a quick wash/clean after a range trip even if I'm not going to do a proper cleaning.
Karl you should have place a few balloons in front and around the target. Thus you can show people how these shots splatter when they hit the steel. Plus would just be in general a simple experiment, but also very informative.
I got kicked out of the NRA range for using 7.62x39 TulAmmo FMJ once. One RO said it was fine looking at the box, then another RO saw how much it was sparking and told me I had to leave :P
I've been trying to push this with my local ranges and none of them believe me when I tell them it's less damaging to steel than copper jacketed M193. They just can't comprehend it's the velocity of the projectile that's jacking up the target not so much the jacket material. Thanks for the vid I shared it with my local multigun groups.
We do our 2-gun practices in the evening, and then it turns dark. I can attest that the modern TulaAmmo silver-tips do seem to spark more than most copper-jacketed rounds. I use about 90% Tula, so I've seen it vs. regular ammo from my own shots.
Funny you should mention shooting plates at close range. I have shot a mild steel plate with some hot 55 grain reloads at 20ish yards and a piece of copper jacket came back and punctured the top of my left ear, lucky I was wearing safety glasses as it could have just of easily hit me in the eye
The old "M855" does more damage to steel myth has been debunked time and time again. In my own experience 193 does far more damage than 855. It's the velocity that matters and typically the 55gr loads are moving a bit faster. IIRC Frank Proctor has a good video doing tests at 10yds or so.
I believe it comes down to velocity. M193 is a fast round, all the eastern steel case .223 is know to be underpowered. Ps since you have had a lot of experience shooting steel case through ar 15 any validity to the so called "laquer build up" i hear repeated online. People say if you shoot a lot of Tula or wolf and let the gun cool down then shoot again it stickys up your action Great content as usual
The older 5.56/.223 that was laquer coated absolutely had this potential problem. It'd get stuck in the chamber and require being pounded out with a hammer and a rod. I have seen a few (rare) 5.56 guns that will get stuck cases with modern (not laquer coated) eastern bloc stuff but all my guns run it just fine, and most do. So again, the old laquer coated stuff definitely did exhibit that problem, and it is a PITA to clear. ~Karl
bigdave1917 correct bigdave if one cleans there weapon after shooting it every time that should not happen. When I was in the Marine Corps we always cleaned or M-16 every time we shot it. That has just stuck with me over the decades
That might work, but if you've shot a decent amount of steel cased stuff without cleaning, then start mixing in brass cased stuff, you can get a gnarly jam. The crud builds up in the chamber from the steel cased stuff, then you put a brass cased round in which expands way more, and BOOM, the thing is stuck. I'm sure the quality of the metal and how well it was reamed/polished is going to make a difference here too. I know I have a really accurate but inexpensive stainless barrel that I got a brass case stuck in when I did exactly as I described.
I think I'll just stick to my PMC Bronze. I actually picked up a crate of it for less than what a crate of Norinco goes for up here. And it doesn't smell like burnt Chow Mein!
That is an interesting result, I shot steel for a long time with xm193 as well as the "copper" tulammo with no problems, but the silver stuff took some big chunks out of the target and visibly sparked, all on the same target and always at 75-100 yards depending on the day. Haven't done it since but maybe I will try again, could have been something with that particular lot
Very interesting and very pertinent to my experience. The places where I shoot have a max range of just under 100 yards and I'm always nervous putting the steel out there.
The jacket is probably a tin/zinc alloy, which would be softer than copper (at least with a high zinc content). It could also have bismuth in it, which is used to control ductility (how much it stretches).
That last shot with the USGI ammo probably dented the target as much as it did because it was so close to the bolt hole. Whereas the other impact points had solid steel all the way around them, that las one was unsupported for a decent chunk of the area around the point of impact.
Hey Karl, Do you try and shot everyday? You must have decent length days so do you go work then nip home then shoot or is it a weekend restricted thing?
What are your thoughts on barrel wear using "wolf?" I have an AK74, the only ammo I can find is Red Army Standard. I am also curious about the barrels in my VZ and SKS. On a side note I was refreshing to see someone's view of new products from Shot Show that wasn't through rose colored glasses.
You haven't lived until you have a surplus steel core 54r round buzz your head after hitting an I-beam target stand at 100 yards. Talk about pucker factor.
At my range, AR's in general decimate our steel. Don't know what it is about .223/5.56, but it does a number on targets at 100 yards. Most people there tend to waste their money on brass cases ammo, but some do shoot Wolf and Tulammo. Either way, they wear out our targets faster than all other calibers combined.
And the offset of the savings from buying steel allows you to buy two new barrels. And still come out on top. Good thing we can replace barrels pretty easily. ;)
shooting 5.56 at 100 yard steel seems like a waste. I only shoot steel at 200+ it's just too easy and boring at 100. if it's just me they'll put out the 1"and 2" steel at 100 though, and in that case it is fun.
In your opinion, is the same true of 7.62x39 surplus with a steel bit inside the lead and copper jacket? And is there any chance of a video on that? =-)
Can you repeat with wolf 62gr hp ammo? Gun ranges currently banning magnetic ammo say that this acts like a steel core round. I have never seen target damage from this ammo at rifle distance targets(100yds+)
hey I've had alot of discussion on this myself with some buddies cause they won't let me shoot bimetal bullets on steel targets. Would you please!?! do this test again on a clean steel target and maybe do it with both an AR and AK, shooting both 5.56 and 7.62x39 steel cased and brass cased. Do you not see the same damage with say pmc brass cased ammo?
You need to shoot it over a chrony. You may be surprised at the velocities. My problem with the zinc plated stuff is my rifle stops working with it. I picked up 120 to 180 rounds of the old Tula from Wally world every month while grocery shopping and shot it in a couple of rifles for a couple of years with no problems. With the new coating, I start having failures to extract after one magazine. I don't know if the new coating causes more friction or if they started using a different powder that causes more fouling. What I do know is the zinc plated stuff starts sticking in the chamber after about one magazine.
How would you know if your round struck a pockmark that already excisted . Cool test but the whole target was a big dent before it was just painted black . Target does have a load of character though .
Tula silver color ammo causes a sludge like substance in my AR 15 and also has in my 1911. Wolf on the other hand doesn't it just needs a regular cleaning after every Time I shot it.
I have put two cases of this new stuff into my steel plates and there is no sign of damage. The m855 however will leave small marks. I shoot my steel at 100 yards.
Sooo... Does the Zinc wash imbed in the imperfections like the copper and is it harder to remove? Could someone potentially shoot Zinc jacketed bullets through a barrel to coat them with "coppering" that won't be removed by their regular cleaning chemicals?
My tula5.56 is copper plated steel jacketed fmj, i actually pulled one and filed it lat on one side and etched it to see.I wonder if it will penetrate more in other targets, it's all lead core but does the mild steel jacket have any benefit in penetration vs copper fmj?
Same I purchased XM193 ammo and some targets from shootsteel.com at 100 yards the XM193 is killing the steel (with 16” barrel ) but Wolf or Tula doesn’t hardly do anything . Now out of the 10.3 barrel all is fine so far
only thing lacquered that i have seen lately is monarch. and it is really lacquered. i only saw it in their 100 box not the 20 though so maybe they are just trying to get rid of the old stuff? when i opened my tulammo and saw silver i thought they had forgot to coat it. would firing the tulammo hollow point do more or less damage to steel?
Would not using a suppresser have made a difference in results. You (Carl) stated that Wolf/Tula was consistently underpowered. I'm wondering if the velocity changes by suppressing would have affected both rounds.
The effect suppressors have on velocity are so negligable that it's not even worth bothering to consider. I have never understood why they use that mechanic in video games, though? ~Karl
I think in video games it's used to reflect the subsonic loading of ammo to eliminate the sonic boom, not an actual effect of the suppressor itself. *shrug*
In terms of barrel wear, if you don't do mag dumps all the time and intentionally abuse the rifle, you will start to see differences at the 6000-10000 round mark. But, assuming you save ~10 cents per trigger pull, it is cheaper to buy and install a new barrel at that point anyways. Even if you save less, it is often worth it in the long run to shoot steel than even remanufactured brass ammunition.
I just bought a bunch of this Tul ammo and it doesn't feed. The first round fires and the bolt closes on an empty chamber. Then when I rack the charging handle the round partially feeds but gets stuck in the feed ramp and I am forced to use the forward assist. Any suggestions on how to get it to run smoothly?
If I remember correctly, he does use a bolt gun in some cases. tnoutdoors9 and the wound channel both have some excellent videos. What they generally agree on is velocity is king for armor penetration. A twenty inch barrel is going to give you a 3250 fps muzzle velocity with the M193 and it zips right through AR500 level III. Of course, if you cut 5 1/2 inches off the barrel, the result is much different.
Bimetal bullets would be more of a fire hazard in an indoor range where unburned powder residue can build up over a long period of time. Proper cleaning and maintenance of the range can prevent a lot of this buildup, but not all ranges are cared for equally.
This is "steel jacketed" ammo. Not just a steel case but also a steel jacketed bullet (aka bi-metal bullet). Now they do claim that it is a "mild steel" jacket but it is steel none the less and it is 3.5 to 4 times harder than a copper jacketed round. This product will cause premature barrel wear, even a chromelined or a nitride treated barrel. For example if your barrel is good for 10,000 rounds using normal copper jacketed ammo, steel jacketed ammo may reduce that to 3,000 to 4,000 rounds barrel life. If you care about your weapons, don't use this ammo. Research info: www.uspsa.org/front-sight-magazine-article.php?Should-I-Buy-BiMetal-Ammo-8 and www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/ and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinell_scale
It's cool, in an AR by the time I shot enough steel case to wear out a barrel I've saved enough to buy multiple barrels. It should also be noted that the Lucky Gunner test is flawed at a base level. They shot those guns hot and fast. If you are standing around doing mag dumps all day, you're going to wear out a barrel faster than even running multigun matches, where you might burn a mag or 2 at a time then the rifle has time to cool down between stages. Getting the barrel really hot, then continuing to fire is going to cause accelerated wear. So really the average shooter in the US will probably never have to replace a barrel due to shooting it out even with steel case.
I shoot slow fire myself and don't have any problem with steel cased brown bear 55gr yet, but I need to get a chamber brush and it does tear up the steel reality frame that holds my paper targets.
I use herculiner truck bed liner spray paint on all my steel targets just to catch spall for safety reasons. Then i just spray white primer over it as well, or if I'm able to get my hands on white colored truck bed liner in the rattle cans I will use it. I always coat mine with 3 thick coats of truck bed liner to prevent spalling and throw a paper target, or spray paint white primer over it.
Wait so if the wolf ammo is magnetic does that mean it can be deflected by a powerfull magnet or atleast propelled by your standard magnetic rails for AR/AK?
Kickin Rocks not in a decent rifle. The cases are mild steel and the chambers are hardened. It can cause more wear or you extractor but if you change out your barrel then swap the ejector and extractor
I think TULAMMO switched to a zinc jacket to keep material costs down. I see M193 make sparks indoors. Nothing unusual as far as I can tell. Tons of indoor ranges in Utah won't let you use Wolf or TULAMMO because it attracts a magnet. They don't care that only the casing is steel. I can sort of get it, but you have bullet-slinging fire-throwing steel machines (firearms) in the range as it is. I doubt steel casings on the floor will ignite unlit powder or damage anything.
This test really isn't that well put together. It appears that the steel is able to swing in its stand to some degree. You shot the M193 directly at the point that the plate is attached to the stand, while you shot the TulAmmo far away from the attachments. Because the plate was able to swing when shot by the TulAmmo, it did less damage than it would have had it been shot higher up.
Not really a valid test when it's on a piece of steel this used and abused, is it? The point might be valid and true, but it'd have come across as real scientific-y if you'd used a brand new target instead.
one of the ranges i go to just got done remodeling their indoor rifle range due to a fire that was started by a dumbass who shot some AP cartridges into the recycled tire backstop..
Hornady makes it which is all I need to know. Buy it, shoot it, and clean your gun. When a "subject matter expert" such as Hornady validates it's use the issue becomes mute period end of story.
The six steps of the scientific method include: 1) asking a question about something you observe, 2) doing background research to learn what is already known about the topic, 3) constructing a hypothesis, 4) experimenting to test the hypothesis, 5) analyzing the data from the experiment and drawing conclusions, and 6) ...
Funny, I will not shot steel case ammo. Too hard on chambers. Here it the real truth ! Velocity, is King ! Bullet design makes a difference at medium velocities. I shoot 220 swift, it goes thru 1/4 inches of steel at a hundred yards. With any bullet. My low end velocities start at 3800 fps, high end is 4200 fps.
Jetmech145 If you buy and shoot enough steel cased ammo, you'll save more than enough money to just buy a new barrel after literally the thousands of rounds you have to put through it to get through your barrel life.
Seems appropriate that *Wolf* ammo now produces a "silver bullet"
Cycle of the (were)Wolf.
Tell your kids they're safe from monsters!
It does seem Earl Harbinger managed to get some side-activity to cover the costs of MHI.
I wish you just dubbed 'TULAMMO' in a shitty monotone over 'wolf' in this video for clarity, or at least humour.
Yeah. Honestly all this TulAmmo, Wolf, whatever, it's all the same stuff to me. I just think of it all as "Wolf", even though that's not correct. ~Karl
It's all Wolf down here. Interesting all the same. Keep up the good work.
Juggernot My hero. I can't wait!
My local indoor range prohibits any steel 7.62x39 but they allow magnum rifles. Makes no sense, but it's their rule.
Hi its Me It is most likely due to the possibility of sparking. There is unburned powder all over in an indoor range, and sparks could cause a fire.
That's why I still have a few cases of Yugo m67 7.62.39. I only use it at the indoor range but I don't go there often... the M67 is corrosive so it does mean a quick wash/clean after a range trip even if I'm not going to do a proper cleaning.
U guys were savage at shotshow. I almost felt bad for some of those reps. Keep up the great work! Your content is getting better and better
Karl you should have place a few balloons in front and around the target. Thus you can show people how these shots splatter when they hit the steel. Plus would just be in general a simple experiment, but also very informative.
Love this video! It's refreshing to see someone actually test a theory, rather than blindly believing rumors.
I got kicked out of the NRA range for using 7.62x39 TulAmmo FMJ once. One RO said it was fine looking at the box, then another RO saw how much it was sparking and told me I had to leave :P
Air Budd they did that recently when I was there a week ago.
I've been trying to push this with my local ranges and none of them believe me when I tell them it's less damaging to steel than copper jacketed M193. They just can't comprehend it's the velocity of the projectile that's jacking up the target not so much the jacket material.
Thanks for the vid I shared it with my local multigun groups.
We do our 2-gun practices in the evening, and then it turns dark. I can attest that the modern TulaAmmo silver-tips do seem to spark more than most copper-jacketed rounds. I use about 90% Tula, so I've seen it vs. regular ammo from my own shots.
If you'd like karl I could ADR this video so that an extremely loud TULAMMO audio clip is played everytime you say Wolf
do it anyway for chuckles
Funny you should mention shooting plates at close range. I have shot a mild steel plate with some hot 55 grain reloads at 20ish yards and a piece of copper jacket came back and punctured the top of my left ear, lucky I was wearing safety glasses as it could have just of easily hit me in the eye
Karl, Tula called. They want to talk to you about calling ther ammo for Wolf ammunition.
main reason is that steel case is not reloadable and mixed in the brass case so the recycle guy don't want to take it, and they lost "profits"
Yep. There just to lazy to take a magnet and filter though then.
My range has a magnet to pick up the steel cases, it's faster than a broom.
The old "M855" does more damage to steel myth has been debunked time and time again. In my own experience 193 does far more damage than 855. It's the velocity that matters and typically the 55gr loads are moving a bit faster. IIRC Frank Proctor has a good video doing tests at 10yds or so.
I believe it comes down to velocity. M193 is a fast round, all the eastern steel case .223 is know to be underpowered.
Ps since you have had a lot of experience shooting steel case through ar 15 any validity to the so called "laquer build up" i hear repeated online. People say if you shoot a lot of Tula or wolf and let the gun cool down then shoot again it stickys up your action
Great content as usual
The older 5.56/.223 that was laquer coated absolutely had this potential problem. It'd get stuck in the chamber and require being pounded out with a hammer and a rod. I have seen a few (rare) 5.56 guns that will get stuck cases with modern (not laquer coated) eastern bloc stuff but all my guns run it just fine, and most do. So again, the old laquer coated stuff definitely did exhibit that problem, and it is a PITA to clear. ~Karl
bigdave1917 correct bigdave if one cleans there weapon after shooting it every time that should not happen. When I was in the Marine Corps we always cleaned or M-16 every time we shot it. That has just stuck with me over the decades
That might work, but if you've shot a decent amount of steel cased stuff without cleaning, then start mixing in brass cased stuff, you can get a gnarly jam. The crud builds up in the chamber from the steel cased stuff, then you put a brass cased round in which expands way more, and BOOM, the thing is stuck. I'm sure the quality of the metal and how well it was reamed/polished is going to make a difference here too. I know I have a really accurate but inexpensive stainless barrel that I got a brass case stuck in when I did exactly as I described.
will the siver bullet kill a werewolf??
Hello guys and gals, me Mutahar again! It’s lead
So first you have to find a were wolf.....
Excellent video and I love that shirt. I've noticed similar results on my AR500 plate.
I think I'll just stick to my PMC Bronze. I actually picked up a crate of it for less than what a crate of Norinco goes for up here. And it doesn't smell like burnt Chow Mein!
That is an interesting result, I shot steel for a long time with xm193 as well as the "copper" tulammo with no problems, but the silver stuff took some big chunks out of the target and visibly sparked, all on the same target and always at 75-100 yards depending on the day. Haven't done it since but maybe I will try again, could have been something with that particular lot
Very interesting and very pertinent to my experience. The places where I shoot have a max range of just under 100 yards and I'm always nervous putting the steel out there.
will you be testing any ammo with wool jackets?
Karl should have added some old western movie ricochet noises!
But which campy noise would he select?
The jacket is probably a tin/zinc alloy, which would be softer than copper (at least with a high zinc content). It could also have bismuth in it, which is used to control ductility (how much it stretches).
M193 actually has better penetration than m855.
+Luke William At shorter ranges indeed it does. ~Karl
wolf tulammo what's the diff both go bang and are cheap 👍
That last shot with the USGI ammo probably dented the target as much as it did because it was so close to the bolt hole. Whereas the other impact points had solid steel all the way around them, that las one was unsupported for a decent chunk of the area around the point of impact.
Certainly possible, yes. ~Karl
Hey Karl, Do you try and shot everyday? You must have decent length days so do you go work then nip home then shoot or is it a weekend restricted thing?
Have you ever rotated your targets 180 degrees? They last twice as long!
What are your thoughts on barrel wear using "wolf?" I have an AK74, the only ammo I can find is Red Army Standard. I am also curious about the barrels in my VZ and SKS.
On a side note I was refreshing to see someone's view of new products from Shot Show that wasn't through rose colored glasses.
You haven't lived until you have a surplus steel core 54r round buzz your head after hitting an I-beam target stand at 100 yards.
Talk about pucker factor.
Toolness1 Damn!! Bet you had to pull the seat cushion out of your ass after that one.
You have to angle that thing down
@@notbadsince97 how about chai hanging
At my range, AR's in general decimate our steel. Don't know what it is about .223/5.56, but it does a number on targets at 100 yards. Most people there tend to waste their money on brass cases ammo, but some do shoot Wolf and Tulammo. Either way, they wear out our targets faster than all other calibers combined.
Velocity is what it is, velocity and small caliber - that lends itself to steel punishment. ~Karl
Steel case ammo wares out your barrel faster.
www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/
And the offset of the savings from buying steel allows you to buy two new barrels. And still come out on top. Good thing we can replace barrels pretty easily. ;)
shooting 5.56 at 100 yard steel seems like a waste. I only shoot steel at 200+ it's just too easy and boring at 100. if it's just me they'll put out the 1"and 2" steel at 100 though, and in that case it is fun.
@@EndingTimes0 new comers usually start at 100 yards until they gain experience
In your opinion, is the same true of 7.62x39 surplus with a steel bit inside the lead and copper jacket? And is there any chance of a video on that? =-)
Can you repeat with wolf 62gr hp ammo? Gun ranges currently banning magnetic ammo say that this acts like a steel core round. I have never seen target damage from this ammo at rifle distance targets(100yds+)
I have some 1960s 7.62x51 and have noticed that some of the bullets are steel jacketed to my surprise
There's a range near me that wont let you shoot paper targets infront of a huge berm with M855.....that never made much sense to me.
hey I've had alot of discussion on this myself with some buddies cause they won't let me shoot bimetal bullets on steel targets. Would you please!?! do this test again on a clean steel target and maybe do it with both an AR and AK, shooting both 5.56 and 7.62x39 steel cased and brass cased. Do you not see the same damage with say pmc brass cased ammo?
Thanks, interesting test and much appreciated. As for steel targets, any recommendations? Perhaps a video topic?
You need to shoot it over a chrony. You may be surprised at the velocities.
My problem with the zinc plated stuff is my rifle stops working with it. I picked up 120 to 180 rounds of the old Tula from Wally world every month while grocery shopping and shot it in a couple of rifles for a couple of years with no problems. With the new coating, I start having failures to extract after one magazine.
I don't know if the new coating causes more friction or if they started using a different powder that causes more fouling. What I do know is the zinc plated stuff starts sticking in the chamber after about one magazine.
"wolf, wolf, wolf, wolf, wolf, wolf, wolf, wolf, wolf" GOD DAMMIT KARL
Meh, it's all the same stuff to me. Some of the comments have said that Wolf is using zinc washed bullets now too? Not sure. ~Karl
Yea i'm just goofin.
The Karl who cried Wolf
How would you know if your round struck a pockmark that already excisted . Cool test but the whole target was a big dent before it was just painted black . Target does have a load of character though .
Tula silver color ammo causes a sludge like substance in my AR 15 and also has in my 1911. Wolf on the other hand doesn't it just needs a regular cleaning after every Time I shot it.
I have put two cases of this new stuff into my steel plates and there is no sign of damage. The m855 however will leave small marks. I shoot my steel at 100 yards.
Sooo... Does the Zinc wash imbed in the imperfections like the copper and is it harder to remove? Could someone potentially shoot Zinc jacketed bullets through a barrel to coat them with "coppering" that won't be removed by their regular cleaning chemicals?
Just ordered a case of Tulammo. I don't think they have switched to the zinc bullets in Canada. Or it's still old stock.
My tula5.56 is copper plated steel jacketed fmj, i actually pulled one and filed it lat on one side and etched it to see.I wonder if it will penetrate more in other targets, it's all lead core but does the mild steel jacket have any benefit in penetration vs copper fmj?
Yeah I have seen that, couldn't use my Cetme at the range recently due to bringing those rounds...
Same I purchased XM193 ammo and some targets from shootsteel.com at 100 yards the XM193 is killing the steel (with 16” barrel ) but Wolf or Tula doesn’t hardly do anything . Now out of the 10.3 barrel all is fine so far
I'm pretty sure the old Tula was copper washed over the bi-metal jacket and they are now zinc plating them. Not sure why they did that either.
Yep, that is the difference. ~Karl
where'd you get that necronomicon/jaegermeister tee?
Yes everyone says stealcore but in fact it's iron making it soft at my club we also provide it was less damaging
where did you get that Evil Dead 2 shirt?
only thing lacquered that i have seen lately is monarch. and it is really lacquered. i only saw it in their 100 box not the 20 though so maybe they are just trying to get rid of the old stuff? when i opened my tulammo and saw silver i thought they had forgot to coat it. would firing the tulammo hollow point do more or less damage to steel?
It wouldn't make a difference, honestly. ~Karl
Would not using a suppresser have made a difference in results. You (Carl) stated that Wolf/Tula was consistently underpowered. I'm wondering if the velocity changes by suppressing would have affected both rounds.
The effect suppressors have on velocity are so negligable that it's not even worth bothering to consider. I have never understood why they use that mechanic in video games, though? ~Karl
I think in video games it's used to reflect the subsonic loading of ammo to eliminate the sonic boom, not an actual effect of the suppressor itself. *shrug*
That could be. It could also be that they just don't understand how they actually work, or both. :) ~Karl
How well do your barrels hold up to the bi-metal bullets?
In terms of barrel wear, if you don't do mag dumps all the time and intentionally abuse the rifle, you will start to see differences at the 6000-10000 round mark. But, assuming you save ~10 cents per trigger pull, it is cheaper to buy and install a new barrel at that point anyways. Even if you save less, it is often worth it in the long run to shoot steel than even remanufactured brass ammunition.
Thank you for the info.
M855 is a light armor piercing round but it would be good if crap hit the fan.
could it be a thin steel jacket like the dm111 German 762?
How do you feel about Tula?
Love your evil dead t shirt
Karl is wearing a Evil Dead shirt. That’s it, that’s the comment.
is getting jams with brass after shooting Steelcase just a neckbeard myth?
I just bought a bunch of this Tul ammo and it doesn't feed. The first round fires and the bolt closes on an empty chamber. Then when I rack the charging handle the round partially feeds but gets stuck in the feed ramp and I am forced to use the forward assist. Any suggestions on how to get it to run smoothly?
That Evil Dead shirt is awesome! Does anyone know where to find one?
Check out The Wound Channel to see M193 drilling right through AR500. Twenty inch barrel and 3250 fps will do that.
Doesn't he also have some 24 inch bolt action laser beam that literally drills through everything
If I remember correctly, he does use a bolt gun in some cases. tnoutdoors9 and the wound channel both have some excellent videos. What they generally agree on is velocity is king for armor penetration. A twenty inch barrel is going to give you a 3250 fps muzzle velocity with the M193 and it zips right through AR500 level III. Of course, if you cut 5 1/2 inches off the barrel, the result is much different.
is it always so windy in that place?
Yes. ~Karl
Yeah, m193 can penetrate level 3 armor if it’s going above a certain speed.
Good one...
Bimetal bullets would be more of a fire hazard in an indoor range where unburned powder residue can build up over a long period of time. Proper cleaning and maintenance of the range can prevent a lot of this buildup, but not all ranges are cared for equally.
True as well. Honestly I'm in indoor ranges so rarely that I usually forget they exist. ~Karl
This is "steel jacketed" ammo. Not just a steel case but also a steel jacketed bullet (aka bi-metal bullet). Now they do claim that it is a "mild steel" jacket but it is steel none the less and it is 3.5 to 4 times harder than a copper jacketed round. This product will cause premature barrel wear, even a chromelined or a nitride treated barrel. For example if your barrel is good for 10,000 rounds using normal copper jacketed ammo, steel jacketed ammo may reduce that to 3,000 to 4,000 rounds barrel life. If you care about your weapons, don't use this ammo. Research info: www.uspsa.org/front-sight-magazine-article.php?Should-I-Buy-BiMetal-Ammo-8 and www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/ and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinell_scale
more like 6000ish rounds. and by the time you get that many rounds in your can buy 2 barrels for how much you saved on ammo...
It's cool, in an AR by the time I shot enough steel case to wear out a barrel I've saved enough to buy multiple barrels. It should also be noted that the Lucky Gunner test is flawed at a base level. They shot those guns hot and fast. If you are standing around doing mag dumps all day, you're going to wear out a barrel faster than even running multigun matches, where you might burn a mag or 2 at a time then the rifle has time to cool down between stages. Getting the barrel really hot, then continuing to fire is going to cause accelerated wear. So really the average shooter in the US will probably never have to replace a barrel due to shooting it out even with steel case.
My AR doesn't like steel ammo at all. I tried it out once and had a FTE on the first round.
And you didn't try another brand?
@@george2113 that was a long time ago, but since then I’ve shot plenty of steel through the same AR and not had problems.
I shoot slow fire myself and don't have any problem with steel cased brown bear 55gr yet, but I need to get a chamber brush and it does tear up the steel reality frame that holds my paper targets.
The bimetal jacket is just copper washed steel. It's the same for surplus 30-06, 8mm, 7.62x54 ect. In this case it's steel jacketed with a zinc wash
I use herculiner truck bed liner spray paint on all my steel targets just to catch spall for safety reasons. Then i just spray white primer over it as well, or if I'm able to get my hands on white colored truck bed liner in the rattle cans I will use it. I always coat mine with 3 thick coats of truck bed liner to prevent spalling and throw a paper target, or spray paint white primer over it.
HAH! That's a fucking great shirt Karl!
so they make up rules with nothing backing them up
Pretty normal stuff.
Groovy shirt!
Indoor ranges make money off spent brass, steel casings are worthless.......... that's why.
Wait so if the wolf ammo is magnetic does that mean it can be deflected by a powerfull magnet or atleast propelled by your standard magnetic rails for AR/AK?
lol.....
probably not....
joe kurtz I think you fundamentally fail to understand how a firearm works.
Can steel case ammo beat up your chamber?
Kickin Rocks not in a decent rifle. The cases are mild steel and the chambers are hardened. It can cause more wear or you extractor but if you change out your barrel then swap the ejector and extractor
@@beardoggin8963 cool. Thanks, Sir.
RIP copper alloy xD
who is next? lead?
That is interesting
I think TULAMMO switched to a zinc jacket to keep material costs down.
I see M193 make sparks indoors. Nothing unusual as far as I can tell.
Tons of indoor ranges in Utah won't let you use Wolf or TULAMMO because it attracts a magnet. They don't care that only the casing is steel. I can sort of get it, but you have bullet-slinging fire-throwing steel machines (firearms) in the range as it is. I doubt steel casings on the floor will ignite unlit powder or damage anything.
Why go an indoor range with a rifle?
This test really isn't that well put together. It appears that the steel is able to swing in its stand to some degree. You shot the M193 directly at the point that the plate is attached to the stand, while you shot the TulAmmo far away from the attachments. Because the plate was able to swing when shot by the TulAmmo, it did less damage than it would have had it been shot higher up.
It replicates a standard match target at a very close range not allowed (for good reason) at a match. That was my only goal. ~Karl
And knowing is half the battle.....G.I.Joe
That means that not knowing is also half the battle...
A lot of things are 7/32 of the battle
is that an evil dead shirt
*hue hue*
👍👍
M855 does no damage to ar500 steel M193 craters due to velocity and construction
Steel makes sparks on ricocheting with risk of igniting the unburned powder on the floor - this is why ranges prohibit milsurp
Too lazy to clean their fucking floors I guess...
You look like the guy from a show called gamesack
Aren't you afraid of spall hitting the saguaros?
Not really a valid test when it's on a piece of steel this used and abused, is it? The point might be valid and true, but it'd have come across as real scientific-y if you'd used a brand new target instead.
4991Ares i doubt it would cause any difference. It may cause slightly worse spalling from hitting the hardened plate but unlikely
one of the ranges i go to just got done remodeling their indoor rifle range due to a fire that was started by a dumbass who shot some AP cartridges into the recycled tire backstop..
:( ~Karl
shoot steel bullets at night with nods. you want to see a light show. 😁
no thanks will keep my brass and pmc bronze
This test has does not have any effect on whether you are crazy or whether people judge you as crazy. Just sayin’
Hornady makes it which is all I need to know. Buy it, shoot it, and clean your gun. When a "subject matter expert" such as Hornady validates it's use the issue becomes mute period end of story.
your targets are too chewed up to tell bro.
+AmazingMrWonderful The point is that the TulAmmo didn't cause more damage than the M193 on the same target, bro. ~Karl
the HARDNESS of material matters - you could know what gonna happen without actually shooting em
The six steps of the scientific method include: 1) asking a question about something you observe, 2) doing background research to learn what is already known about the topic, 3) constructing a hypothesis, 4) experimenting to test the hypothesis, 5) analyzing the data from the experiment and drawing conclusions, and 6) ...
Funny,
I will not shot steel case ammo. Too hard on chambers.
Here it the real truth !
Velocity, is King !
Bullet design makes a difference at medium velocities.
I shoot 220 swift, it goes thru 1/4 inches of steel at a hundred yards. With any bullet.
My low end velocities start at 3800 fps, high end is 4200 fps.
Any body that shoots that bi-metal crap through there rifle should be arrested for barrel abuse.
Barrels are cheap and replaceable. ~Karl
Jetmech145 If you buy and shoot enough steel cased ammo, you'll save more than enough money to just buy a new barrel after literally the thousands of rounds you have to put through it to get through your barrel life.
First!
That plate had more pock marks than Stalin
Ironically the man of steel