I have been sitting around since the early 70's and I am in great shape! Apart from my knees, I miss those, oh and having to get up three times a night.. Ok maybe a LITTLE deterioration
@@RexApplegate especially when you can buy the Sabots brand new, in bulk. i know some people who've been trying to make this in .30 carbine just so they can have some decent hollowpoints.
I saw a picture not long ago, there was a guy who showing how he wanted to sporterize his "Chinese mauser", The picture showed a Takedown Arisaka. i commented what it was and that it was a lot more valuable than he thought, hopefully he listened.
The stock/wood looks nice... though I'd prefer if they didn't do that to a historical gun, unless it was a mosin because most of those were meh as hell anyway, unless it was a particular rare vintage of one. That and the .308 rechambering... ummmm...
When I was a tank platoon leader in the late 90’s we had .50 cal sub cal devices (essentially.50 BMG bolt gun that fit center of the tank main gun) for use in gunnery practice. SLAP-T rounds supposed matched the trajectory of the 120mm sabot within 1000m. I tried to scratch the tungsten penetrators with every piece of steel I could find, no joy. So wanted to use those bad boys in a M107.
@@jlangford7422 I did my military conscription in the Finnish army tank company in 2017-2018 and we used a similar .50 BMG bolt-action sub cal device with SLAP-T rounds as well. On those rounds the sabots were red. I don't know if they are still manufactured somewhere or whether they were just from old inventory. They seem to be rare in civilian hands but maybe someone somewhere still makes them?
I actually own a sporterized Arisaka in 6.5 mm Japanese. I inherited it from my father in law, who modified it back in the 1960's. A decent deer rifle, although I have never hunted with it.
Re: .50 SLAP, we used it quite a bit of it in Afg, or at least tried to. It was terribly unreliable, causing failures to feed. We spent a bunch of time at the range and eventually found that the OAL was a shade too long and the tips were dragging on the feed chute. Since we were the only group using it in any regularity, we had other units test it out and found the same thing. Shortly after they told us to expend it all and get a fresh batch of ball.
I can't wait for the future where we're all watching InrangeTV on neurally connected versions of Karl's cyberpunk glasses, and Ian and Karl finally get a hold of some surplus DARPA EXACTO .50cal rounds to test.
I live near a large testing base in the south east US and the USAF almost daily rocks the town with ordnance testing. Its really not that big a deal for us to feel shock waves and hear explosions. I cannot speak for SW US.
I highly approve the use of a Chinese SKS sling on that rifle. I've found them to be a really quite good basic sling, so long as the leather (or synthetic leather) attachment 'tabs' are of decent quality. On a few of them, I've had to replace the really crummy synthetic leather tabs with some really nice quality reproduction Mosin dog collars, which have made for a pretty darn good replacement.
SLAP, very similar to the Remington "Accelerator" rounds in the late 80's, early 90's. Freaking wild in a 30.06! I brought down the biggest Mule Deer of my life with a 55gr Accelerator round in 1987. Well over 4Kfps. The round would hit a 300 yard target before the rifle had even fully recoiled.
Back in my youth reading about the "Accelerator" rounds when they were new I thought the concept would be great for AP usage. Never knew the .mil adopted them. Does anyone make sabots for reloading today?
Freaking SLAP man. One of the machine gunners in my old company cut a guy in half with .50 SLAP. Must have hit his spine because he folded over backwards on himself and his bottom half was only connected by a few strands of tissue. Forget armor, they're just nasty against anything.
I was at the Seattle police gun range in the late 80's and the SWAT team was practicing shooting these SLAP rounds, lots of them. When they were done and left the range my buddy and I dug around in the dirt behind the target and found a handful of the bullets that were undamaged. We took them home pulled the bullets from some 30-06 accelerator ammo and loaded the SLAP bullets in their place, as I recall they fit good and snug. We couldn't find a steel plate they wouldn't shoot through, the thickest we tried was 2".
"The most important factor in penetration is velocity... but you still need a perforating projectile. Bubblegum isn't going to through steel." I feel like you just need to add some more zeroes to your muzzle velocity to make this happen.
All physics aside, imagine a device that could propell anything to speed that would penetrate anything. Imagine the enemy sitting in their MBT while your're casually lasering stuff through. "Yeah well a damn Hello Kitty Doll went flying through the hull, took the driver and my loader. Mondays."
@@Kremit_the_Forg I laughed too much at that mental image. Junk Jet from Fallout but with more oomph perhaps? Also the possibilities for delivering a message with the chosen projectile "Go *$!& yourself" has a rather obvious choice...
Adding zeroes will add energy, but that energy doesn't stay focused if the projectile can't hold it together. A meteor striking a planet, no matter the angle or velocity, forms a circular crater every time. If the projectile goes totally plastic the energy will become radiant rather than linear.
You'd need to add _so many_ zeroes, and drag is proportional to the _square_ of velocity just like energy is. Those tiny bits of plastic that punch through spacecraft hulls would burn up in milliseconds inside an atmosphere.
I'd be very interested to see the result of what would happen if you took an M2 black tip AP projectile and loaded it into a .30 cal magnum cartridge, maybe .300WM, .300NM or even something like .30-338. The black tip is obviously an excellent AP projectile, so turning up the velocity could make a significant difference in performance
.30-378 Weatherby Mag. It should EASILY hurl a black tip at 3,000+ FPS, maybe even 3,500 FPS with a hot load. In fact, it was originally designed for armor penetration testing.
I mean they sell accelerator sabots to allow loading 5.56 or 224 or 223 in any 30 caliber cartridge. You'd just need to pull some bullets from some 556 nato AP.
I’ve never gotten any SLAP ammo but from class on ammo identification in gunnery prep I know that .50 cal SLAP grounds use an aluminum Sabo instead of plastic.
I instinctively moved my mouse towards the thumbs-up button the moment Karl said, "Slap!" and did the gesture. I think Davie504 videos have conditioned me with all the, "Slappers! Slap like now!" bits in them.
Ian: "that sounds like a war crime.' Karl: "It is a War crime" *anyone who has played spec ops the line, company of heros, or pretty much any call of duty.* "You sonovabitch I'm in!"
I'm guessing that most sabot failures don't result in barrel damage, only the especially unlucky ones. Instead they simply result in the projectile failing to spin or an asymmetrical exit. Either results in premature tumbling. It's easy to understand why this round wasn't approved.
A critique on your comparison of the performance of this round with the .308 black tip. The testing format was different; in this test you used 2 plates bolted together, forming essentially a thicker plate instead of 2 distantly placed plates. Especially in the 1990-version of the round, it seemed to not penetrate because of the second plate preventing the bulging of the steel. Don't you think the current setup has impacted the round's ability to penetrate?
That's the point, all of the AP rounds will go through one by itself. So they're trying to see which does better than others in situations beyond what they are meant for
I think spaced armor is even more effective at stopping AP rounds, so bolting the plates directly together might have increased the chances of penetrating.
@@Papperlapappmaul Yeah but you can't compare results between two separate plates vs. two plates bolted together. With separated plates, nothing is stopping the first plate from bulging backwards and allowing the round to get through. With two plates bolted together, the second plate supports the back of the first plate and doesn't allow it to bulge and break.
These rounds were EXTREMELY popular in the mid '80s with the collectors who built up original (mainly Portuguese, Sudanese, and Guatemalan) AR-10 parts kits, since the AR-10s gas system would cycle reliably in them. After hearing about what these can do through muzzle devices, I am so glad that nobody ended up destroying their priceless Dutch-produced AR-10 by shooting this stuff.
I got to burn a can of the .50 SLAP-T in Afghanistan in 2013, the tank unit in our AO were retrograding and i ( the AO ammunition chief) absorbed it, and took a can to demo for my dudes on a 50 cal range. I want to say we affectively chopped a 10 foot? Ish Jersey barrier in basically half at around 600 yards? It's been a while. But definitely one of the best days i had out there.
@@AdotLOM I dont know about it's armor penetration, but the real advantage is the BC. Bullet drop for "7,62/10 prick" is only 5,2 mils on 1000m, compared to 14,4 mils for the regular FMJ. Wind and spindrift is also about 1/3 so its alot easier to make a first round hit. mv = 1290m/s vs 850 for FMJ
@@SonsOfLorgar That sounds... odd. The reputation these had was that it was horribly inaccurate. Remington tried making a commercial version (not AP) called the Accelerator using what I'm betting are the same sabot and commercial bullets, and those had the same reputation for inaccuracy.
Little correction guys: The factors for penetration of armor are factors of Hardness, Diameter, and MASS. If the projectile is not heavy enough, no matter how fast you push it it will not penetrate without fully disintegrating first. This is why Armor Piercing Rounds are generally made of materials that are hard and dense, traveling fast. Those little .20 caliber tungsten slugs are very limited in their capability just from a basic physics standpoint. They're just not heavy enough to penetrate.
Interesting to note, I recently learned about the *5.6x39* Soviet sporting cartridge, which survived in the West as .220 Russian by Lapua, and "Blum Cartridge" or simply 5.6x39 in Russia by Tula. Anyway, it had a sporting version for moving target competitions, which developed 1200 m/s (3940 fps). It was a cut-down 7.62x39 case with a ~.22 bullet.
Remington sold a commercial version of this for hunting called the Remington accelerator, I'd guess the velocity would be similar as they were a 55gn round. They were around 4000-4200fps.
I used to work for a gunsmith, and they designed an alternate brake for the M82/107 rifles. Because the army found that when they used .50 BMG SLAP, the sabot would come out of the fish gill style brake and kill the spotter. I believe they still use those brakes to some degree, but overall they're using fewer SLAP rounds from .50 cals.
I remember when I was reading Black Hawk Down that Mark Bowden said the rangers M60's were loaded with SLAP rounds and that they went clean through the local militia fighters without causing much bodily damage due to the small SABOT projectiles. However, now I'm wondering if he was mistaken as Ian said it was discarded as an idea before the Cold War ended.
This was interesting just to see the rounds. I wasn't aware of the project. It's an interesting concept that might be worth revisiting with modern materials and manufacturing.
"Scale it up to .50" ooooo, that one didn't age well. Yikes, though this video really reflects some of the theories that surround the now infamous event regarding a .50 BMG slap round. The polymer sabot very likely did not play well with the muzzle brake and resulted in a bore obstruction.
These were deployed in the middle east when I was there but they were the M903 and M962 used in the M2 50 Cal machine gun. I believe it fired a 30cal tungsten projectile from the 50 cal caseing. Worked good for punching through 3 foot thick adobe walls.
That first shot was clearly keyholing... It's imprinted sideways on the plate, and tungsten isn't going to melt or splatter, it's just gonna bounce off or stay embedded...
Maybe they didn't penetrate because the second plate sort of reinforced the first plate which prevented it from denting enough for the bullet to go through
Ian said it was likely it would have penetrated without the second plate, so yes, it would have gone through but still did worse than .30-06 black tip. I'm honestly surprised that it penetrated as much as it did when keyholeing; I'd imagine it might actually make it through if they got a solid hit.
@@coltpiecemaker It would have, the second hit at least was clearly a hit that would have penetrated if not for the reinforcing plate- you could see it breaking out only a short distance. This is the gap between the two plates.
I've watched hundreds of hours of slow motion armor tests. The plates stacked up back to back like that don't do much for each other. They act like independent plates in that type of scenario. So no, the second plate didn't change anything. By the time the first plate has a chance to move the projectile has already disintegrated or passed through the plate.
Twist rate is so important. I have a Mossberg 308win scout rifle. I can shoot 180 grain Winchester super X and get moa or better. It has a great twist rate for heavier bullets but does have a shorter barrel.
Interesting how accurate there are, because they had giant accuracy problems with SPIW sabot ammo, and how high the fragmentation persentage. Overall I think you will never find an infantry round to penetrate 2 plates, because nobody wears 2 plates in the fields and therefore nobody would design a round with such overpenetration, as it would probably cost a lot and hence doesnt worth the money. I think when talking about AP rounds the quality mark is not how much it can penetrate, but how accurate and reliable, and for what cost it can do it. Nevertheless, it does not lover the interest with which i watch those videos)
AP rounds were intended to be used against vehicles and cover until very recently, not so much against personal body armor. Lapua 338 AP might make it through both plates or if you consider anything below 12.7mm infantry round then there are rounds that will definately zip right through both.
@@Salesman9001 Yeah, but I was talking about infantry rounds which are, relying on the country, 7.62, 5.56 or 5.45, and intended to use against body armor, which is no thinker than one plate. For defeating vehicle armor and covers tere are special devices like good old RPG. I cant remember one time when they trired to put an ability of reliably defeating armored vehicles in standart infantry or marxsman rifles. But the first time may come soon after they have developed 338 norma magnum (which is quite significant) for scuad support mg.
A buddy of mine accidentally shot some 9mm out of his Glock 27. I can report that it 1. Jammed his gun every 2-3 rounds, 2. Made some interesting looking brass, 3. Was still “combat accurate” at 25 yards.
Spacing multiple layers of armor is how you /improve/ the effectiveness of two layers of armor. Look up "whipple shielding" for spacecraft, and also witness the effectiveness of slat armor - both instances where physical spacing plays a key role in defeating penetrators, whether physical or shaped-charge in form.
I'm not entirely sure that first one didn't bounce off the ground before it hit. I thought I saw dirt kick up about 8" from the plate before I saw the impact. May have been the case for both.
Hey great video, I have Shoot similar rounds, and i can say with pretty high confidence that both your bullets tumbled, my 7,62 sabot rounds went straight through 25 mm of AR500 steel like it was butter, so some sort of malfunction happend. keep up the good work.
Remington made saboted "accelerator" ammo that was nearly identical to this except with a regular FMJ bullet, and as far as I know they still shoot fine even 20+ years later. Maybe the tumbling was due to a discrepancy with rifling twist rates? You should've gotten someone with a high speed camera to record them leaving the barrel, maybe a collab with Taofledermaus.
The Swedish army adopted pretty much this exact ammunition in 1998 (by Winchester Division of Olin Corporation) for the sniper rifle Psg90 (Accuracy International's Arctic Warfare, aka British L118). Not so much for the armor penetration (rated at 30mm@100m HB400 steel in documents), but for the high velocity (1340m/s or 4400fps), low wind drift, low bullet drop, 30mm 5-shot groups@100m, increased effective range and supposedly greater practical accuracy over conventional ammo at guesstimated longer ranges (thanks to the lower bullet drop and wind drift). $2 per round. Designation: "7,62/10 PRICK". Still "in use" (I think they placed one very large order back then), though standard ammunition is also common (with a muzzle brake).
I’d love to see further testing in this area. .224 to .308 caliber “accelerator” sabots are available from E.B. Brown if I remember correctly, and they do come with load data. You could load and test them with the M193 and M855 projectiles as well as some fancier stuff like the M855A1 bullets if you can get them.
The second you said Arisaka conversion, wondered about the barrel and the improper bore and groove diameters. While this conversion could have been rebarreled to a proper one, it was fairly common to save money on a cheap sporterized gun to just set back the original barrel and rechamber it. If this was done it was hunting accurate, especially with a flat base bullet, but the bore and groove are .303/.314” instead of .300/.308” bore/groove. This difference could very well cause the penetrator to shift inside the sabot and cause the yaw you experienced. I think y’all are experienced enough to know this, but you didn’t call it out so I thought I’d mention it.
Whoa, You did? Cool! When was it from I don't believe the Germans were using AP, is it Yugoslav or something. Or is it just steel/iron core German ammo?
@@anameofsomesort959 I'm not sure exactly. I've taken a couple pop shots at some 1" steel and it's definitely got some sort of hardened core. Put quite the crater.
This idea is coming back into style. Take a tungsten welding rod, sharpen the tip on a lathe, carbeurize the surface to harden it, swage aluminum fins on the back for stability, 3D print the sabot, and fire out of a smooth-bore shotgun. A standard 12gauge with a long barrel and a lot of powder can punch through a manhole cover.
As a few other folks pointed out, the projectile is tungsten, which is paramagnetic, or very weakly interacting with magnets. The copper alloy in the jacket and the lead itself of most rounds is diamagnetic, or repelled by fields. I'm not sure how the chronograph works, but I bet it's detecting that diamagnetic property of the rounds as they cut through the fields.
Swedish Armed Forces uses it for long range snipershoots due to the low dispersion, we do take away the muzzel break before using it on your AI AW 7.62*51
It might be interesting to do a video featuring the "Accelerator" ammunition that Remington made at one time for, I believe, 30-06, .308, and 30-30. These were all .223 diameter bullets in .308 diameter sabots for hunting. The 30-06 version was supposed to clock in around 4100-4200 fps. I have fired some from a 1917 Winchester, and it was wild to shoot at 300+ yards with no visually perceptible flight time. That they were exceedingly flat-shooting goes without saying !
Thanks guys for risking it to test these bullets! By the way I noticed there is no play list in youtube for all the tests you guys have been doing for various ammo and body armor...
I twice blew the business ends of muzzle brakes off an AR-10 rifle I owned. The first time I thought it was just a fluke - for some reason the bullet exiting the bore got upset and blew off a third of the end of the brake. I replaced the brake and it promptly happened again. The problem? I was using frangible bullets (meant to go easy on steel targets) left over from training and the rifle had a polygonal bore. The bore partially crushed the bullets, so when they came out of the muzzle, spinning like crazy, the spinning tore apart the fractured bullets and the parts impacted the distal end of the muzzle brakes and blew them off. Lesson learned - do not use frangible training ammo with a rifle that has a polygonal bore. After replacing the brake again, and reverting to ball ammo, I never had another problem.
If y’all don’t want that gun I’ll take it off your hands cause I’ve been wanting to find an old milsurp gun turned hunting gun with irons for a while course I’d pay
I've also been sitting around since 1985, and I can confirm that I also have deteriorated somewhat.
Back in my day with didnt jave fancy slap rounds we used rocks.
Irony is I was young enough to tumble back in 1985. Today, not so much.
I have been sitting around since the early 70's and I am in great shape! Apart from my knees, I miss those, oh and having to get up three times a night.. Ok maybe a LITTLE deterioration
Same here, wonder if I can be reloaded somewhere
@@wynwilliams6977 im in good shape to.. round is a shape
You know it's unobtainium when you can procure a grand total of 2.
@@RexApplegate especially when you can buy the Sabots brand new, in bulk. i know some people who've been trying to make this in .30 carbine just so they can have some decent hollowpoints.
Still available at knob creek, about $100 per round when you find it.
@@turbosnake8038 have they really gone up that much? 2013 - 2014 I was seeing them for $10 round dirty, $20 round clean listed online.
@@otm646 a friend has about 90rds black tip in enbloc clips...
Hardtofindium.
That arisaka is a physical manifestation of all my nightmares
Lol as soon as I saw the bayonet and it’s mount I was upset
I saw a picture not long ago, there was a guy who showing how he wanted to sporterize his "Chinese mauser", The picture showed a Takedown Arisaka. i commented what it was and that it was a lot more valuable than he thought, hopefully he listened.
Still better than a MLP livery Mauser.
"...it's chambered in .308."
**wakes up yelling in a cold sweat**
The stock/wood looks nice... though I'd prefer if they didn't do that to a historical gun, unless it was a mosin because most of those were meh as hell anyway, unless it was a particular rare vintage of one. That and the .308 rechambering... ummmm...
Never seen this stuff, but I have seen the .50 BMG SLAP rounds, and the polymer sabot is indeed yellow - that isn't from age.
The sabot is made of polysulfone, a high-performance thermoplastic used for its resistance to heat and oxidation
When I was a tank platoon leader in the late 90’s we had .50 cal sub cal devices (essentially.50 BMG bolt gun that fit center of the tank main gun) for use in gunnery practice. SLAP-T rounds supposed matched the trajectory of the 120mm sabot within 1000m. I tried to scratch the tungsten penetrators with every piece of steel I could find, no joy. So wanted to use those bad boys in a M107.
@@jlangford7422 I did my military conscription in the Finnish army tank company in 2017-2018 and we used a similar .50 BMG bolt-action sub cal device with SLAP-T rounds as well. On those rounds the sabots were red. I don't know if they are still manufactured somewhere or whether they were just from old inventory. They seem to be rare in civilian hands but maybe someone somewhere still makes them?
"Mom can we buy an Arisaka?"
"No, we have an Arisaka at home!"
The Arisaka at home:
I actually own a sporterized Arisaka in 6.5 mm Japanese. I inherited it from my father in law, who modified it back in the 1960's. A decent deer rifle, although I have never hunted with it.
Ha haha. Perfect!
It actually hurts to look at.
The best part of waking up, is InRange in your cup
Even better when it's in your InRange mug! Available now in the shop!
Good to the last SLAP.
I prefer a little whiskey every now and then
Austin Brought to you with decidedly less incest
Does that constitute as a drinking problem?
Re: .50 SLAP, we used it quite a bit of it in Afg, or at least tried to. It was terribly unreliable, causing failures to feed. We spent a bunch of time at the range and eventually found that the OAL was a shade too long and the tips were dragging on the feed chute. Since we were the only group using it in any regularity, we had other units test it out and found the same thing. Shortly after they told us to expend it all and get a fresh batch of ball.
I can't wait for the future where we're all watching InrangeTV on neurally connected versions of Karl's cyberpunk glasses, and Ian and Karl finally get a hold of some surplus DARPA EXACTO .50cal rounds to test.
Is everyone just ignoring what is clearly the USAF taking on some sort of giant Kaiju in the background? Or is this normal in the southern US?
I live near a large testing base in the south east US and the USAF almost daily rocks the town with ordnance testing. Its really not that big a deal for us to feel shock waves and hear explosions. I cannot speak for SW US.
The USAF would like to say that it is a "Wednesday". Nothing out of the ordinary. Not even a particularly large Kaiju.
@@taccovert4 yeah our USA kaiju only get substantial on the west coast, and even then the Japanese kaiju are bigger than them. Common misconception
This is a shooting range.
I live near Fort Knox,Ky and you know when they are out training with tanks. Big badaboom.
Someone pls get Karl a ratcheting socket wrench
Or a cordless impact
You dont like spanish wrenches?
Ben A What you got against a universal metric set? 😀
We call those Ukranian Stripsall around here
We call them nut fuckers. For obvious reasons.
Opportunity missed to use a G3 and slap to load the slap
Well, except for the muzzle device issue
PSG1 would work
sneakeypete the issue was that they don’t want to ruin a perfectly good rifle that costs quite a bit with this round haha. So they took the arisaka
Slap the SLAP achievement sounds cool.
I highly approve the use of a Chinese SKS sling on that rifle. I've found them to be a really quite good basic sling, so long as the leather (or synthetic leather) attachment 'tabs' are of decent quality. On a few of them, I've had to replace the really crummy synthetic leather tabs with some really nice quality reproduction Mosin dog collars, which have made for a pretty darn good replacement.
Got one on my Marlin 25M 22 mag.
SLAP, very similar to the Remington "Accelerator" rounds in the late 80's, early 90's. Freaking wild in a 30.06! I brought down the biggest Mule Deer of my life with a 55gr Accelerator round in 1987. Well over 4Kfps. The round would hit a 300 yard target before the rifle had even fully recoiled.
Back in my youth reading about the "Accelerator" rounds when they were new I thought the concept would be great for AP usage. Never knew the .mil adopted them. Does anyone make sabots for reloading today?
@@shooter575 EABCO still sells them. Possibly others, as well.
Or the tip of a tungsten drill bit
What'd the deel look like after you hit it with that thing?
@@MasterFancyPants I was thinking the same thing, getting some .224 carbide blanks, cut to length, and use an edm to put a cone on them.
Had these with and without tracer in .50 cal during my tour in Bosnia in '94. Impressive on target results 👍
Freaking SLAP man. One of the machine gunners in my old company cut a guy in half with .50 SLAP.
Must have hit his spine because he folded over backwards on himself and his bottom half was only connected by a few strands of tissue. Forget armor, they're just nasty against anything.
that must have been a cure for constipation. gruesome
@@flightlesschicken7769 Compton, CA
@@ayle1312 Nice
Whoa
@@flightlesschicken7769 Ramadi '05
I was at the Seattle police gun range in the late 80's and the SWAT team was practicing shooting these SLAP rounds, lots of them. When they were done and left the range my buddy and I dug around in the dirt behind the target and found a handful of the bullets that were undamaged. We took them home pulled the bullets from some 30-06 accelerator ammo and loaded the SLAP bullets in their place, as I recall they fit good and snug. We couldn't find a steel plate they wouldn't shoot through, the thickest we tried was 2".
"The most important factor in penetration is velocity... but you still need a perforating projectile. Bubblegum isn't going to through steel."
I feel like you just need to add some more zeroes to your muzzle velocity to make this happen.
Everything can penetrate steel if the steel is plasma ;)
what-if.xkcd.com/1/
All physics aside, imagine a device that could propell anything to speed that would penetrate anything.
Imagine the enemy sitting in their MBT while your're casually lasering stuff through.
"Yeah well a damn Hello Kitty Doll went flying through the hull, took the driver and my loader. Mondays."
@@Kremit_the_Forg I laughed too much at that mental image. Junk Jet from Fallout but with more oomph perhaps? Also the possibilities for delivering a message with the chosen projectile "Go *$!& yourself" has a rather obvious choice...
Adding zeroes will add energy, but that energy doesn't stay focused if the projectile can't hold it together. A meteor striking a planet, no matter the angle or velocity, forms a circular crater every time. If the projectile goes totally plastic the energy will become radiant rather than linear.
You'd need to add _so many_ zeroes, and drag is proportional to the _square_ of velocity just like energy is. Those tiny bits of plastic that punch through spacecraft hulls would burn up in milliseconds inside an atmosphere.
It would be interesting to see a followup video examining the bore to see what, if anything, that tumbling projectile did to the inside of the barrel.
X 2
I'd be very interested to see the result of what would happen if you took an M2 black tip AP projectile and loaded it into a .30 cal magnum cartridge, maybe .300WM, .300NM or even something like .30-338. The black tip is obviously an excellent AP projectile, so turning up the velocity could make a significant difference in performance
.30-378 Weatherby Mag. It should EASILY hurl a black tip at 3,000+ FPS, maybe even 3,500 FPS with a hot load. In fact, it was originally designed for armor penetration testing.
As someone who owns a 300 win mag rifle, I second this!
Somebody online did exactly that using 300 win mag. Penetration went up dramatically. Makes me wonder what 300RUM or .30-378 Weatherby
I mean they sell accelerator sabots to allow loading 5.56 or 224 or 223 in any 30 caliber cartridge. You'd just need to pull some bullets from some 556 nato AP.
Also like I said elsewhere I think youll need a tighter rifling twist than most 308 barrels are going to have if you want the rounds to be accurate
Kinda scary seeing this stuff after the recent explosion, still really neat to see though!
I’ve never gotten any SLAP ammo but from class on ammo identification in gunnery prep I know that .50 cal SLAP grounds use an aluminum Sabo instead of plastic.
it must be some alloy, aluminium would crack into dust, even when doped with silicon.
The .50 Cal slap I was using in Afghanistan used a plastic sabo
@@derek-kh2gt Mine too. But the 25mm use an aluminum sabot that doesn't split apart.
@@jackvernian7779 aluminum is a lot stronger than plastic especially 7000 series
@@derek-kh2gt same. Liked the SLAP, LOVED my API.
I instinctively moved my mouse towards the thumbs-up button the moment Karl said, "Slap!" and did the gesture. I think Davie504 videos have conditioned me with all the, "Slappers! Slap like now!" bits in them.
This video gets the slap of approval for all the slaps
slappers unite
Ian: "that sounds like a war crime.'
Karl: "It is a War crime"
*anyone who has played spec ops the line, company of heros, or pretty much any call of duty.*
"You sonovabitch I'm in!"
ah yes funni screamy youtuber
Dont forget real war
Rising Storm 2 with liberal use of WP grenades here
Literally anyone trying to record a RUclips video on the range: speaks
Apparently every single artillery piece known to mankind: cowabunga it is
Can you put a light down the barrel of the rifle to cheak if it left any bounce marks on the rifling. That might show if it was a clean flight.
I was wondering the exact same thing.
I'm guessing that most sabot failures don't result in barrel damage, only the especially unlucky ones. Instead they simply result in the projectile failing to spin or an asymmetrical exit. Either results in premature tumbling.
It's easy to understand why this round wasn't approved.
I enjoy that you two talk like brother or great friends. It makes it very easy to enjoy the videos. Thank you.
I'll second the suggestion of handloading .30cal blacktip bullets into one of the big .30 magnums such as 300RUM or .30-378. For science.
"How can she SLAP?"
HOW CAN YOU SLAP HER YOU BASTARD
Titanium Rain HOW CAN SHE SLAP MEH!!!!
"YOU BASTARD... YOU Bloody Bastard!"
A critique on your comparison of the performance of this round with the .308 black tip. The testing format was different; in this test you used 2 plates bolted together, forming essentially a thicker plate instead of 2 distantly placed plates. Especially in the 1990-version of the round, it seemed to not penetrate because of the second plate preventing the bulging of the steel. Don't you think the current setup has impacted the round's ability to penetrate?
Thats the whole reason they used 2 plates
That's the point, all of the AP rounds will go through one by itself. So they're trying to see which does better than others in situations beyond what they are meant for
I think spaced armor is even more effective at stopping AP rounds, so bolting the plates directly together might have increased the chances of penetrating.
@@Papperlapappmaul Yeah but you can't compare results between two separate plates vs. two plates bolted together. With separated plates, nothing is stopping the first plate from bulging backwards and allowing the round to get through. With two plates bolted together, the second plate supports the back of the first plate and doesn't allow it to bulge and break.
These rounds were EXTREMELY popular in the mid '80s with the collectors who built up original (mainly Portuguese, Sudanese, and Guatemalan) AR-10 parts kits, since the AR-10s gas system would cycle reliably in them. After hearing about what these can do through muzzle devices, I am so glad that nobody ended up destroying their priceless Dutch-produced AR-10 by shooting this stuff.
great info
I always love it when I'm out shooting or on your videos and someone else's random gunfire starts ringing out in the distance. Let freedom ring.
My biggest question is whether or not the chrysanthemum is still intact on Karl's defiled, worthless Arisaka.
This is the best comment on the video..
THAT would be the ULTIMATE infamia!!!
Don't recall if it's Mandarin or Cantonese slang that refers to an asshole as a "chrysanthemum gate".
I got to burn a can of the .50 SLAP-T in Afghanistan in 2013, the tank unit in our AO were retrograding and i ( the AO ammunition chief) absorbed it, and took a can to demo for my dudes on a 50 cal range. I want to say we affectively chopped a 10 foot? Ish Jersey barrier in basically half at around 600 yards? It's been a while. But definitely one of the best days i had out there.
I read in Black Hawk Down Cpl Shawn Nelson a had 7.62 SLAP loaded in his M60.
I love the auto generated subtitles. ‘Penetration comes primarily from one’s heart’... thanks for that one Ian!
1:00 I wonder if that's why Scott's RN-50 exploded.
"we're on the range today so please bear with the gunfire hear in the background"
"WHAT DID THE FIVE FINGERS SAY TO THE FACE? SLAP!"
**James Brown laugh**
That was--
_COOOLD-BLOODEEEED_
RIP Charlie Murphy
We use something similar in the Swedish AI-AW (PSG 90) sniper rifle.
Have you got any info on how those rounds perform?
@@SonsOfLorgar I HAVE. BUT NOT VERY OFTEN. OUR SHARPSHOOTERS HAVE FIRE ONE OR TWO EACH.
@@AdotLOM I dont know about it's armor penetration, but the real advantage is the BC. Bullet drop for "7,62/10 prick" is only 5,2 mils on 1000m, compared to 14,4 mils for the regular FMJ.
Wind and spindrift is also about 1/3 so its alot easier to make a first round hit. mv = 1290m/s vs 850 for FMJ
@@SonsOfLorgar That sounds... odd. The reputation these had was that it was horribly inaccurate. Remington tried making a commercial version (not AP) called the Accelerator using what I'm betting are the same sabot and commercial bullets, and those had the same reputation for inaccuracy.
1:20 sounds like a rocket barrage landing near you guys, jesus
Good, I'm not the only one! I was nervous for a split second until I remembered this was youtube and not liveleak
Someone has a Katyusha
Someone was having fun in the background
"Fire when ready, Karl"
Under any other circumstance...😳
Little correction guys: The factors for penetration of armor are factors of Hardness, Diameter, and MASS. If the projectile is not heavy enough, no matter how fast you push it it will not penetrate without fully disintegrating first. This is why Armor Piercing Rounds are generally made of materials that are hard and dense, traveling fast. Those little .20 caliber tungsten slugs are very limited in their capability just from a basic physics standpoint. They're just not heavy enough to penetrate.
I remember selling something like these from Remington but in a hunting round when I worked in a hardware store in the 90’s.
Interesting to note, I recently learned about the *5.6x39* Soviet sporting cartridge, which survived in the West as .220 Russian by Lapua, and "Blum Cartridge" or simply 5.6x39 in Russia by Tula. Anyway, it had a sporting version for moving target competitions, which developed 1200 m/s (3940 fps). It was a cut-down 7.62x39 case with a ~.22 bullet.
Remington sold a commercial version of this for hunting called the Remington accelerator, I'd guess the velocity would be similar as they were a 55gn round.
They were around 4000-4200fps.
I used to work for a gunsmith, and they designed an alternate brake for the M82/107 rifles. Because the army found that when they used .50 BMG SLAP, the sabot would come out of the fish gill style brake and kill the spotter. I believe they still use those brakes to some degree, but overall they're using fewer SLAP rounds from .50 cals.
I remember when I was reading Black Hawk Down that Mark Bowden said the rangers M60's were loaded with SLAP rounds and that they went clean through the local militia fighters without causing much bodily damage due to the small SABOT projectiles. However, now I'm wondering if he was mistaken as Ian said it was discarded as an idea before the Cold War ended.
This was interesting just to see the rounds. I wasn't aware of the project. It's an interesting concept that might be worth revisiting with modern materials and manufacturing.
Cool to see him wearing the CTRL eyepro that he made a video on earlier on the channel
THANKS JEFF FOR PROVIDING THE AMMO .....THUMBS UP.
"Scale it up to .50" ooooo, that one didn't age well. Yikes, though this video really reflects some of the theories that surround the now infamous event regarding a .50 BMG slap round. The polymer sabot very likely did not play well with the muzzle brake and resulted in a bore obstruction.
Im really happy to see more of these i was worried this series wasn’t gonna last
I want them to make a whole video on this abomination
I love your two large all/16 wrenches.
Should we start a gofundme to get Karl a ratchet?
These were deployed in the middle east when I was there but they were the M903 and M962 used in the M2 50 Cal machine gun. I believe it fired a 30cal tungsten projectile from the 50 cal caseing. Worked good for punching through 3 foot thick adobe walls.
3:40
'and this stuff isn't super high pressure ?'
'no it's normal pressure'
well this aged poorly
The A10 shooting in the background was a nice touch.
Bubble gum travelling at 80% of the speed of light would penetrate steel.
In atmo it would vaporise in nanoseconds.
100% had these in Afghanistan in 2014. No one knew what they were, but we had Ammo cans full of them.
Was there any damage to the barrel ?
That first shot was clearly keyholing... It's imprinted sideways on the plate, and tungsten isn't going to melt or splatter, it's just gonna bounce off or stay embedded...
Maybe they didn't penetrate because the second plate sort of reinforced the first plate which prevented it from denting enough for the bullet to go through
Ian said it was likely it would have penetrated without the second plate, so yes, it would have gone through but still did worse than .30-06 black tip. I'm honestly surprised that it penetrated as much as it did when keyholeing; I'd imagine it might actually make it through if they got a solid hit.
@@coltpiecemaker It would have, the second hit at least was clearly a hit that would have penetrated if not for the reinforcing plate- you could see it breaking out only a short distance. This is the gap between the two plates.
I've watched hundreds of hours of slow motion armor tests. The plates stacked up back to back like that don't do much for each other. They act like independent plates in that type of scenario. So no, the second plate didn't change anything. By the time the first plate has a chance to move the projectile has already disintegrated or passed through the plate.
Twist rate is so important. I have a Mossberg 308win scout rifle. I can shoot 180 grain Winchester super X and get moa or better. It has a great twist rate for heavier bullets but does have a shorter barrel.
Im pretty sure karl just said degregation like 3 times in a row, like
"did i hear that?"
"he's actually doing that"
"tf, this is gunna bother me"
He turned it into a tongue twister
Thank you for the heads up on the Magneto Speed chronograph. Bought one recently and have put it to good use for my reloads.
Interesting how accurate there are, because they had giant accuracy problems with SPIW sabot ammo, and how high the fragmentation persentage.
Overall I think you will never find an infantry round to penetrate 2 plates, because nobody wears 2 plates in the fields and therefore nobody would design a round with such overpenetration, as it would probably cost a lot and hence doesnt worth the money. I think when talking about AP rounds the quality mark is not how much it can penetrate, but how accurate and reliable, and for what cost it can do it. Nevertheless, it does not lover the interest with which i watch those videos)
AP rounds were intended to be used against vehicles and cover until very recently, not so much against personal body armor. Lapua 338 AP might make it through both plates or if you consider anything below 12.7mm infantry round then there are rounds that will definately zip right through both.
@@Salesman9001 Yeah, but I was talking about infantry rounds which are, relying on the country, 7.62, 5.56 or 5.45, and intended to use against body armor, which is no thinker than one plate. For defeating vehicle armor and covers tere are special devices like good old RPG. I cant remember one time when they trired to put an ability of reliably defeating armored vehicles in standart infantry or marxsman rifles. But the first time may come soon after they have developed 338 norma magnum (which is quite significant) for scuad support mg.
A buddy of mine accidentally shot some 9mm out of his Glock 27. I can report that it 1. Jammed his gun every 2-3 rounds, 2. Made some interesting looking brass, 3. Was still “combat accurate” at 25 yards.
Also, you might be getting less penetration from your tests because the plates are stacked. A little gap might show more. Maybe.
Exacly , this is not heat ammo, thickness matters.
Spacing multiple layers of armor is how you /improve/ the effectiveness of two layers of armor. Look up "whipple shielding" for spacecraft, and also witness the effectiveness of slat armor - both instances where physical spacing plays a key role in defeating penetrators, whether physical or shaped-charge in form.
but the test was to see if it went through double thickness plate, which is why they stacked them tight together
I'm not entirely sure that first one didn't bounce off the ground before it hit. I thought I saw dirt kick up about 8" from the plate before I saw the impact. May have been the case for both.
High speed would have been interesting on this test to see what happens to the sabot.
Hey great video, I have Shoot similar rounds, and i can say with pretty high confidence that both your bullets tumbled, my 7,62 sabot rounds went straight through 25 mm of AR500 steel like it was butter, so some sort of malfunction happend. keep up the good work.
I never saw any of those in the Army. Must not have been special enough. :(
Not operater enough
Never widely issued
I only ever got the SLAP in .50 cal. I consider myself lucky to get those!
Remington made saboted "accelerator" ammo that was nearly identical to this except with a regular FMJ bullet, and as far as I know they still shoot fine even 20+ years later. Maybe the tumbling was due to a discrepancy with rifling twist rates? You should've gotten someone with a high speed camera to record them leaving the barrel, maybe a collab with Taofledermaus.
Does anyone know if they have a recommended twist for the rifling used?
@@wollywolly2734 so 1:12 wonder if a 1:10 would be better, worse, or just strip the sabot
The Swedish army adopted pretty much this exact ammunition in 1998 (by Winchester Division of Olin Corporation) for the sniper rifle Psg90 (Accuracy International's Arctic Warfare, aka British L118). Not so much for the armor penetration (rated at 30mm@100m HB400 steel in documents), but for the high velocity (1340m/s or 4400fps), low wind drift, low bullet drop, 30mm 5-shot groups@100m, increased effective range and supposedly greater practical accuracy over conventional ammo at guesstimated longer ranges (thanks to the lower bullet drop and wind drift). $2 per round.
Designation: "7,62/10 PRICK". Still "in use" (I think they placed one very large order back then), though standard ammunition is also common (with a muzzle brake).
Davie 504: hears slap - *I want these ammo*
I’d love to see further testing in this area.
.224 to .308 caliber “accelerator” sabots are available from E.B. Brown if I remember correctly, and they do come with load data. You could load and test them with the M193 and M855 projectiles as well as some fancier stuff like the M855A1 bullets if you can get them.
I'll trade you some tp for that abomination of a rifle...?
Scotts?
What is this, Tarkov?
@@G-Mastah-Fash nah TP is plenty cheap over there, would'nt trade
@@G-Mastah-Fash this be RUclips.
Lmao one of my buddies traded someone 2 rolls of toilet paper to get I think 2 AR mags 2 glock mags and 100 rounds of .223 lol
We had ”SLAP” rounds in the links for the M2 in Afghanistan 07-08 at FOB Joyce (NE of Jalalabad). If I remember right every fifth round.
Old “Crescent Wrench Karl”...
The second you said Arisaka conversion, wondered about the barrel and the improper bore and groove diameters. While this conversion could have been rebarreled to a proper one, it was fairly common to save money on a cheap sporterized gun to just set back the original barrel and rechamber it. If this was done it was hunting accurate, especially with a flat base bullet, but the bore and groove are .303/.314” instead of .300/.308” bore/groove. This difference could very well cause the penetrator to shift inside the sabot and cause the yaw you experienced. I think y’all are experienced enough to know this, but you didn’t call it out so I thought I’d mention it.
When y'all gonna test the 8mm AP I sent!!??
Whoa, You did? Cool! When was it from I don't believe the Germans were using AP, is it Yugoslav or something. Or is it just steel/iron core German ammo?
@@anameofsomesort959 I'm not sure exactly. I've taken a couple pop shots at some 1" steel and it's definitely got some sort of hardened core. Put quite the crater.
This idea is coming back into style. Take a tungsten welding rod, sharpen the tip on a lathe, carbeurize the surface to harden it, swage aluminum fins on the back for stability, 3D print the sabot, and fire out of a smooth-bore shotgun. A standard 12gauge with a long barrel and a lot of powder can punch through a manhole cover.
I’m watching this after Scott’s accident. I don’t think I would even trust any slap rounds at this point.
Felt that
As a few other folks pointed out, the projectile is tungsten, which is paramagnetic, or very weakly interacting with magnets. The copper alloy in the jacket and the lead itself of most rounds is diamagnetic, or repelled by fields. I'm not sure how the chronograph works, but I bet it's detecting that diamagnetic property of the rounds as they cut through the fields.
Davie504 *entered the chat*
I dont get how that dude has so many views his editing is soooo anoying
SLAP like now
Swedish Armed Forces uses it for long range snipershoots due to the low dispersion, we do take away the muzzel break before using it on your AI AW 7.62*51
SLAPPERS of the world, unite!
EPICO
Mind-blowing !
It might be interesting to do a video featuring the "Accelerator" ammunition that Remington made at one time for, I believe, 30-06, .308, and 30-30. These were all .223 diameter bullets in .308 diameter sabots for hunting. The 30-06 version was supposed to clock in around 4100-4200 fps. I have fired some from a 1917 Winchester, and it was wild to shoot at 300+ yards with no visually perceptible flight time. That they were exceedingly flat-shooting goes without saying !
Slap like now 😉.
Thanks guys for risking it to test these bullets! By the way I noticed there is no play list in youtube for all the tests you guys have been doing for various ammo and body armor...
I used 50 cal SLAP in Afghanistan
Mitch is good people, and makes good stuff.
1:09 Davie504: I'm calling the police.
I twice blew the business ends of muzzle brakes off an AR-10 rifle I owned. The first time I thought it was just a fluke - for some reason the bullet exiting the bore got upset and blew off a third of the end of the brake. I replaced the brake and it promptly happened again. The problem? I was using frangible bullets (meant to go easy on steel targets) left over from training and the rifle had a polygonal bore. The bore partially crushed the bullets, so when they came out of the muzzle, spinning like crazy, the spinning tore apart the fractured bullets and the parts impacted the distal end of the muzzle brakes and blew them off.
Lesson learned - do not use frangible training ammo with a rifle that has a polygonal bore. After replacing the brake again, and reverting to ball ammo, I never had another problem.
If y’all don’t want that gun I’ll take it off your hands cause I’ve been wanting to find an old milsurp gun turned hunting gun with irons for a while course I’d pay
Thank you Jeff!