A flash from my past! I had the version ! (with specs) on my M3 in the late 60's as it was the only way to go. Wish I had kept it as it was a really good lens stopped down a little. Thanks for this.
WOW!!! Great video again - this time, on one of my true favorites - the 8-element!!! You bring great answers to all the questions on my mind vis-a-vis the LLL replica (...hankering object for all the time in it's existence..), as your 'object vs object' comparison tells us all exactly the *essential differences* between the two that I've been wondering about, thank you! It is evident that the LLL performance in terms of contrast and sharpness (- in practical terms) are on par - which is reassuring to know (- I also don't have any prejudice of it's "chinese-ness" vs the inherent "Wetzlarer Heiligtum" ..) - Looking very much forward to your 'knowledgeable handling' of the six- and seven-elements (ver. 3 and ver. 4, the so-called 'KOB'), as I also have the luxury for direct comparison .. directly out-of-the-cupboard... Having been lucky to obtain my 8e lens(es) long before the prices went all off 'any decent obtainability level', getting a LLL 8e would be slightly silly, were it not for the (...equally, slightly silly) "safety hysteria" in carrying around the real thing these days, which is even more silly, as the 35 'AA' is the 'daily, go-to' glass, anyway... (a lens which you REALLY have to experience!) Do come around!! 🤗(...Summarex, still waiting for you!)
I quite like my Ver.1 8-elements Cron on my Leica M2, which it was made for, no goggles. I also like it on my Leica M9, the warmth of the lens the colors of the CCD sensor balance each other well. Just my own observation. I enjoyed this side by side look Matt, and looking forward to the next one!
Great video as always! In regards to the infinity lock, there is a bit of a trick which you can get used to by having your finger in the focus tab pressing up/inwards as you go in and out of infinity and that will prevent the lock from engaging. It's easier that it sounds in reality. I will say for anyone who hasn't used the original or LLL 35mm 8 element the aperture ring is probably the best on any lens I've experienced. It's grooved all the way around and is super easy to grab and change at any position your hand my be in.
Thanks mate for the wonderful video and good times in London! This lens renders amazing both b&w and colour, and added benefit for glasses wearers is it brings up the 50mm framelines also on later Ms. Very thankful to be able to own it
Something that is possibly forgotten about with lenses designed before 1970 - they were primarily designed for black and white film and lenses like the 35 f2 were aimed squarely at press and editorial not “art” photographers - majority of Leica users in the 50s were Robert Franks not Maplethorpe - rather than in low light few photographers shooting on the original 35 would have nominally shot it at f2 - more likely at f5.6 to f11 - on pushed TriX - where colour was thought of in lens design the colour they thought of was reversal and specifically Kodachrome. Lenses optimized for saturated colours! When Velvia finally goes I will have a wake :( . So coatings were not necessarily formulated for a neutral gamut. That changed somewhat with Zeiss T* in the early 70s - before T* few coatings considered colour neutrality as important as flare or reflection on high refractive index surfaces. My guess is that the LLL coating does consider colour or rather neutrality, in its formula. I did some part time work with a local regional newspaper in the late 80s (local functions etc) and the photo editor who had worked at I think Picture Post would have chewed your whatzitz off if you had given him TriX negatives shot without a lens hood, wide open and into the sun - regardless of the name on the lens.
Haha thanks! Yes agree these lenses really sharpen up by f4. You’ll see this in the planned videos to come. Agree they are soft and ‘arty’ / fussy wide open but on digital that takes the edge off the modern images so I love that. Great info shared though, thanks!
Hi Matt your lens comparisons are great.More of what is needed for the photos.Not only sharpness.Have film in my Nik F2 and best to do the same with the M4.Many thanks.😊❤
Great presentation. For me the LLL is a non-finisher. It just does not do color much better than my Samsung phone. And that Leica 35 is well beyond my reach, or need. I have a nice Canon LTM and the CV f/1.4 that will do me. Your mastery of model photography amazes me. You have posing and lighting down pat. The old Jesuit motto of learning, "Repititio, repititio, repititio". You earned your spurs. You are as good as anyone out there and way better than most. I enjoy watching your success. Yeah, I know you work like the proverbial dog to make it happen. You are building a great business. Good for you. There will be a day when I will be saying, "I remember Matt when he was running to Poland with a pair of tanners in his pocket and look at him now!"
I prefer the Leica one is this comparison. what do think of the Leica Summicron R 50mm f/2 which is about 330 USD on Ebay. Seems like the 'R ones are more reasonable as far as price is concerned. Great photos as always !
Me too for colours and flare. I'll talk more about that in the next 35mm video. R lenses are great. See that video and the blog post with all the sample photos. I have quite a few.
Hi Matt, the complaint about the infinity lock is just ridiculous, a 35mm lens @ F4 intending to produce a print of 60cm in the long edge( very large for a 35mm Neg ), and viewed @ 50cm when focused @ 15 meters will have a depth of field of 6.5 meters to infinity. I have set the print size and the viewing distance quite tight so reduce the D.O.F. All this means is that if our friends set the focus to 15 meters and the aperture to F4 they don't really need to mess with any focus tabs. I used the advanced Cambridge in Colour D.O.F calculator. As for the difference in rendering, it would be good if we knew what type of glass was used in the Leica lens. Thorium glass that was very popular in the 50s and the 60s for exotic lenses yellows with age as well as being ' mildly ' radioactive and this type of glass can give a warm rendering. In fact with the Pentax 67 105mm lens that uses Thorium, one really does not need a yellow filter for B&W photography as the glass yellowing is the equivalent of a #6 yellow filter. The coatings also have a great effect on colour rendering.
Thanks. Fair point on DOF, I had totally overlooked that. I dont think these had thorium glass, some of my 50s had versions with it in. My Aero Ektar is radioactive. Yes most have a slight yellow tint on the glass. I prefer the warmer Leica rendering but both are fine for B&W.
The original 8-element was made with thorium-free lanthanum glass as is the LLL version. LLL went so far as to find original remaining lanthanum glass stocks. IRRC, at some point LLL switched to other sources for the Lanthanum glass.
Matt, I'm all about this series! Could the warmer look be caused by the way the old school coatings have aged? Like how the older 35mm pre asph summiluxes can have that amber tint to them?
Thanks Greg! I think it's more the glass and coatings from this period. The v2 and v3 Cron have the same nice warm look. Coming soon.. when I find time! :)
Great video Matt!! Light Lens Labs has lots of fantastic M & LTM products, even items such as the 35mm Viewfinder SBLOO (works on Leica LTM cameras). How do the LLL 35mm f/2 lenses compare to Voigtländer's 35mm f/2 Ultron I (or Ultron II)?
Matt, could you please advise me where I should be looking, in order to buy a used Leica Q2 Monochrom camera here in the UK. Somewhere where the prices are competitive but reliable. I have been thinking about one for a long time, money is the biggest barrier but I have decided I will purchase it, sell other equipment etc to finance it. Thank you.
yes they are good and the mark1 is the go to 35mm summicron. however you are all just playing for second the 35mm summaron 2.8 from the 50s has more just more !!!😁😁😁.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom a very distinctive look, very period, of its time and interesting bokeh ,to me this makes its own very individual look!! quite different from a summicron that followed and replaced it..its a rarer lens’s or less popular or obvious one to have ..i have a ltm version for anything other than a m3.. double the price though !!!
In a blind test, I can tell the difference between a LLL lens and a modern Leica lens from this decade because LLL is built better 😂 The original Lecia 8-element has the best build quality though.
Hello Matt, there appears to be a black protective cover on the bottom of the black Leica in your video. Who makes this cover and where can I purchase it? Please let me know. Thanks, Steve (New York)
Hi Steve, if it’s clear plastic it comes on cameras when you buy them new. If black 3D printed cover see the link on MrLeica.com (the same people that make the M lens coding kit)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Thanks Matt! Found the link on your website for Akara. I'll see if they make a 3D printed protector for my M3 and M2 bodies. Thanks again.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Hey Matt, I did and Akara plans to make 3D printed bottom protectors for the M2/M3 bodies in the near future! I will certainly pick up several as I have two M3s, and M2 and an M1. I also have a gorgeous IIIG that I would like to protect. Great stuff!!
Thanks Doc! It's interesting you say that as the next video might be called looking for a bad 35mm. I used to like the sharpest and best but in recent times i'm starting to appreciate bad/arty lenses much more. I'll explain in the full video to come!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Matt, if you want an ‘arty’ 35mm like no other (and it sharpens up nicely when stopped down), larger physical size but handles fine on the SL - Takumar 35mm f2.3
The 35mm focal length lens is my favorite lens for general subjects and for one-lens/one -body situations. I use the 35mm f/1/4 Zeiss Distagon on my Leica M6 and M10. I also used the 35mm f/2 or the 35mm f/1.4 Nikkor on my Nikon 35mm SLR cameras. On my Fuji APS-C digital mirrorless, I use the 23mm f/2 or the f/1.4 Fujinon.
Hi Matt. I am suffering from GAS and am not sure what to do. I own a Summicron V2 (Canada) with a vertical tab on the f stop ring. I am to understand that this is a 6 element design. What little I can find on the 6 element it seems that people sneer against it and prefer the 8 element versions. I was hoping that you were going to talk about the V2 but unfortunately only touched on it for a moment. Is the 8 element version really that much better than the 6 element or is everyone just talking out of their bum? Would the Ultron 35 f2 (8 element aspherical design)be any better than what I have or should I just be happy with I own? I also have 35mm f1.2 nokton iii and a Zeiss 35 f2 Biogon. Like I admit I have GAS but I wonder if I'm just being OCD/anal...ha Thanks in advance for any input. I hope one day you can visit our great National Parks even though you specialty is model photography...about as close you can get would be a cow buffalo...cheers
Hi, yes sorry this is just the first video, v1 vs v1. A bigger v1-v4 video to follow. v2 and v3 are the same optics, both 6E, v4 is 7E. If you want perfect you need the ASPH version that is bigger and well corrected. I wanted a 'bad'/arty version so I went for the older ones with more character. Ultron is good for sharper look too. Like you I have quite a lot! Ultron, Nokton, LLL, Cron and others.
Nice to see this comparison from you. The LLL 8-element is still on my wish list, but having a hard time deciding between the rigid (for the SL) or collapsible (for the Barnack and SL) versions. I believe you mentioned [thinking of] switching for the ridge easy handling, and I understand that. The collapsible is kind of ideal on a Barnack, but maybe a bit odd to use on the SL. The new M/L mount rigid version could be a good compromise but is also more expensive. Decisions…
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A flash from my past! I had the version ! (with specs) on my M3 in the late 60's as it was the only way to go. Wish I had kept it as it was a really good lens stopped down a little. Thanks for this.
Thanks Gareth, yes Thomas loves his copy. He's used it this week with me in Poland.
The performance / size of the 35 f2 8E LLL is just stunning. I love the lens for a walk around in the city.
Yes your copy is crazy small. Sometimes I wish i'd kept mine too!
WOW!!! Great video again - this time, on one of my true favorites - the 8-element!!! You bring great answers to all the questions on my mind vis-a-vis the LLL replica (...hankering object for all the time in it's existence..), as your 'object vs object' comparison tells us all exactly the *essential differences* between the two that I've been wondering about, thank you!
It is evident that the LLL performance in terms of contrast and sharpness (- in practical terms) are on par - which is reassuring to know (- I also don't have any prejudice of it's "chinese-ness" vs the inherent "Wetzlarer Heiligtum" ..) -
Looking very much forward to your 'knowledgeable handling' of the six- and seven-elements (ver. 3 and ver. 4, the so-called 'KOB'), as I also have the luxury for direct comparison .. directly out-of-the-cupboard...
Having been lucky to obtain my 8e lens(es) long before the prices went all off 'any decent obtainability level', getting a LLL 8e would be slightly silly, were it not for the (...equally, slightly silly) "safety hysteria" in carrying around the real thing these days, which is even more silly, as the 35 'AA' is the 'daily, go-to' glass, anyway... (a lens which you REALLY have to experience!)
Do come around!! 🤗(...Summarex, still waiting for you!)
Thanks for your kind words! Yes the 35 AA is still to be explored! More videos to follow :)
I quite like my Ver.1 8-elements Cron on my Leica M2, which it was made for, no goggles. I also like it on my Leica M9, the warmth of the lens the colors of the CCD sensor balance each other well. Just my own observation. I enjoyed this side by side look Matt, and looking forward to the next one!
Thanks Alain, nice! I like the warmth too. You’ll see this is important in a video to follow!
Great video as always! In regards to the infinity lock, there is a bit of a trick which you can get used to by having your finger in the focus tab pressing up/inwards as you go in and out of infinity and that will prevent the lock from engaging. It's easier that it sounds in reality. I will say for anyone who hasn't used the original or LLL 35mm 8 element the aperture ring is probably the best on any lens I've experienced. It's grooved all the way around and is super easy to grab and change at any position your hand my be in.
Thanks and great tips!
I just bought the v2 summicron asph. Perfect.
Nice!!
Nice!!
Just got the 35mm 1.4 Summilux ASPH FLE and its amazing
Very nice! I’m tempted to try the pre if I get a chance. (I’ve done a video on the ASPH already)
Thanks mate for the wonderful video and good times in London! This lens renders amazing both b&w and colour, and added benefit for glasses wearers is it brings up the 50mm framelines also on later Ms. Very thankful to be able to own it
Thanks Thomas! Looking forward to our next meet up soon. Well overdue! Thanks for note on the framelines.
Something that is possibly forgotten about with lenses designed before 1970 - they were primarily designed for black and white film and lenses like the 35 f2 were aimed squarely at press and editorial not “art” photographers - majority of Leica users in the 50s were Robert Franks not Maplethorpe - rather than in low light few photographers shooting on the original 35 would have nominally shot it at f2 - more likely at f5.6 to f11 - on pushed TriX - where colour was thought of in lens design the colour they thought of was reversal and specifically Kodachrome. Lenses optimized for saturated colours! When Velvia finally goes I will have a wake :( . So coatings were not necessarily formulated for a neutral gamut. That changed somewhat with Zeiss T* in the early 70s - before T* few coatings considered colour neutrality as important as flare or reflection on high refractive index surfaces. My guess is that the LLL coating does consider colour or rather neutrality, in its formula.
I did some part time work with a local regional newspaper in the late 80s (local functions etc) and the photo editor who had worked at I think Picture Post would have chewed your whatzitz off if you had given him TriX negatives shot without a lens hood, wide open and into the sun - regardless of the name on the lens.
Haha thanks! Yes agree these lenses really sharpen up by f4. You’ll see this in the planned videos to come. Agree they are soft and ‘arty’ / fussy wide open but on digital that takes the edge off the modern images so I love that. Great info shared though, thanks!
Hi Matt your lens comparisons are great.More of what is needed for the photos.Not only sharpness.Have film in my Nik F2 and best to do the same with the M4.Many thanks.😊❤
Thanks and nice cameras!
I personally have the 35mm 1.4o n an SL2 and it is the bomb
Very nice!! I like the idea of the early 1.4 pre but for now i'll use the f2s
LLL has a 35mm double aspherical that’s been in the works…patiently waiting for that
Yes I hear this too. I think it's delayed a bit but hopefully soon'ish!
Voigtlander 35mm Classic is gorgeous
Yes the v2 is good for digital. I've already tested it vs Leica so will do a video when I find the time
Great presentation. For me the LLL is a non-finisher. It just does not do color much better than my Samsung phone. And that Leica 35 is well beyond my reach, or need. I have a nice Canon LTM and the CV f/1.4 that will do me.
Your mastery of model photography amazes me. You have posing and lighting down pat. The old Jesuit motto of learning, "Repititio, repititio, repititio". You earned your spurs. You are as good as anyone out there and way better than most. I enjoy watching your success. Yeah, I know you work like the proverbial dog to make it happen. You are building a great business. Good for you. There will be a day when I will be saying, "I remember Matt when he was running to Poland with a pair of tanners in his pocket and look at him now!"
Thanks Sandy, yes I prefer the Leica for colours hence a recent purchase and video to follow. Thanks for your kind words as always!
I prefer the Leica one is this comparison. what do think of the Leica Summicron R 50mm f/2 which is about 330 USD on Ebay. Seems like the 'R ones are more reasonable as far as price is concerned. Great photos as always !
Me too for colours and flare. I'll talk more about that in the next 35mm video. R lenses are great. See that video and the blog post with all the sample photos. I have quite a few.
Hi Matt, the complaint about the infinity lock is just ridiculous, a 35mm lens @ F4 intending to produce a print of 60cm in the long edge( very large for a 35mm Neg ), and viewed @ 50cm when focused @ 15 meters will have a depth of field of 6.5 meters to infinity. I have set the print size and the viewing distance quite tight so reduce the D.O.F. All this means is that if our friends set the focus to 15 meters and the aperture to F4 they don't really need to mess with any focus tabs. I used the advanced Cambridge in Colour D.O.F calculator. As for the difference in rendering, it would be good if we knew what type of glass was used in the Leica lens. Thorium glass that was very popular in the 50s and the 60s for exotic lenses yellows with age as well as being ' mildly ' radioactive and this type of glass can give a warm rendering. In fact with the Pentax 67 105mm lens that uses Thorium, one really does not need a yellow filter for B&W photography as the glass yellowing is the equivalent of a #6 yellow filter. The coatings also have a great effect on colour rendering.
Thanks. Fair point on DOF, I had totally overlooked that. I dont think these had thorium glass, some of my 50s had versions with it in. My Aero Ektar is radioactive. Yes most have a slight yellow tint on the glass. I prefer the warmer Leica rendering but both are fine for B&W.
The original 8-element was made with thorium-free lanthanum glass as is the LLL version. LLL went so far as to find original remaining lanthanum glass stocks. IRRC, at some point LLL switched to other sources for the Lanthanum glass.
@@settingofthesuns Thanks for sharing the info.
Matt, I'm all about this series! Could the warmer look be caused by the way the old school coatings have aged? Like how the older 35mm pre asph summiluxes can have that amber tint to them?
Thanks Greg! I think it's more the glass and coatings from this period. The v2 and v3 Cron have the same nice warm look. Coming soon.. when I find time! :)
Great video Matt!! Light Lens Labs has lots of fantastic M & LTM products, even items such as the 35mm Viewfinder SBLOO (works on Leica LTM cameras). How do the LLL 35mm f/2 lenses compare to Voigtländer's 35mm f/2 Ultron I (or Ultron II)?
Thanks! Agreed! LLL has more character for sure. (And yes love the finder!)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Fantastic information, thank you Matt!!
Matt, could you please advise me where I should be looking, in order to buy a used Leica Q2 Monochrom camera here in the UK. Somewhere where the prices are competitive but reliable. I have been thinking about one for a long time, money is the biggest barrier but I have decided I will purchase it, sell other equipment etc to finance it. Thank you.
Try MPB, Wex, Park Cameras, RedDotCameras, Leica Manchester..
Thank you Matt.@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom
What are the goggles for? Are they only needed on a M3 because it doesn't have 35mm framelines?
Yes the lens is from that era. You can use them with other M cameras too without issue.
yes they are good and the mark1 is the go to 35mm summicron. however you are all just playing for second the 35mm summaron 2.8 from the 50s has more just more !!!😁😁😁.
Thanks! Yes I hear this too, hence the famous 8E. I’ve got the 3.5 Summaron but I’ve never tried the 2.8. I hear it’s a nice one!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom a very distinctive look, very period, of its time and interesting bokeh ,to me this makes its own very individual look!! quite different from a summicron that followed and replaced it..its a rarer lens’s or less popular or obvious one to have ..i have a ltm version for anything other than a m3.. double the price though !!!
Nice video! Thank Matt. M10 is back? :o
Thanks! Sadly not, old footage from June! (I always have a huge backlog of videos to post!)
In a blind test, I can tell the difference between a LLL lens and a modern Leica lens from this decade because LLL is built better 😂 The original Lecia 8-element has the best build quality though.
Haha, fair! The KOB Canada is terrible build!
Hello Matt, there appears to be a black protective cover on the bottom of the black Leica in your video. Who makes this cover and where can I purchase it? Please let me know. Thanks, Steve (New York)
Hi Steve, if it’s clear plastic it comes on cameras when you buy them new. If black 3D printed cover see the link on MrLeica.com (the same people that make the M lens coding kit)
Akaralabs* (I’ll be in NY teaching again at the start of October!)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Thanks Matt! Found the link on your website for Akara. I'll see if they make a 3D printed protector for my M3 and M2 bodies. Thanks again.
@@stevest55 no problem. Write to them, say we spoke.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Hey Matt, I did and Akara plans to make 3D printed bottom protectors for the M2/M3 bodies in the near future! I will certainly pick up several as I have two M3s, and M2 and an M1. I also have a gorgeous IIIG that I would like to protect. Great stuff!!
You already have the best 35mm for Leica M, it's the Voigtländer Ultron 35mm F2 II.
Thanks Doc! It's interesting you say that as the next video might be called looking for a bad 35mm. I used to like the sharpest and best but in recent times i'm starting to appreciate bad/arty lenses much more. I'll explain in the full video to come!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Matt, if you want an ‘arty’ 35mm like no other (and it sharpens up nicely when stopped down), larger physical size but handles fine on the SL - Takumar 35mm f2.3
@@Hektormydog thanks! I’m a sucker for M mount so I can use properly with RF but thank you
The 35mm focal length lens is my favorite lens for general subjects and for one-lens/one
-body situations.
I use the 35mm f/1/4 Zeiss Distagon on my Leica M6 and M10.
I also used the 35mm f/2 or the 35mm f/1.4 Nikkor on my Nikon 35mm SLR cameras.
On my Fuji APS-C digital mirrorless, I use the 23mm f/2 or the f/1.4 Fujinon.
Nice! The Distagon is great but too big for me. Yes 35mm is a nice EDC lens.
Hi Matt. I am suffering from GAS and am not sure what to do. I own a Summicron V2 (Canada) with a vertical tab on the f stop ring. I am to understand that this is a 6 element design. What little I can find on the 6 element it seems that people sneer against it and prefer the 8 element versions. I was hoping that you were going to talk about the V2 but unfortunately only touched on it for a moment. Is the 8 element version really that much better than the 6 element or is everyone just talking out of their bum? Would the Ultron 35 f2 (8 element aspherical design)be any better than what I have or should I just be happy with I own?
I also have 35mm f1.2 nokton iii and a Zeiss 35 f2 Biogon.
Like I admit I have GAS but I wonder if I'm just being OCD/anal...ha
Thanks in advance for any input.
I hope one day you can visit our great National Parks even though you specialty is model photography...about as close you can get would be a cow buffalo...cheers
Hi, yes sorry this is just the first video, v1 vs v1. A bigger v1-v4 video to follow. v2 and v3 are the same optics, both 6E, v4 is 7E. If you want perfect you need the ASPH version that is bigger and well corrected. I wanted a 'bad'/arty version so I went for the older ones with more character. Ultron is good for sharper look too. Like you I have quite a lot! Ultron, Nokton, LLL, Cron and others.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom thanks for your reply. I'll be looking forward to seeing the videos in the future.
Nice to see this comparison from you. The LLL 8-element is still on my wish list, but having a hard time deciding between the rigid (for the SL) or collapsible (for the Barnack and SL) versions. I believe you mentioned [thinking of] switching for the ridge easy handling, and I understand that. The collapsible is kind of ideal on a Barnack, but maybe a bit odd to use on the SL. The new M/L mount rigid version could be a good compromise but is also more expensive. Decisions…
@@Hektormydog yes! Rigid is much nicer to handle but bigger and not for LTM (most)
🙊🙊🙊
Thanks!