I'm imagining Adolin finding out about the potential relationship, and nervously having to give Renarin "the talk", because Dalinar never got around to it.
@@Wilks228 the talk isn't just the birds and the bees or STDs; it should also be about sex, valuing yourself, and how you treat your companion. Adolin has had many failures in relationships, and would likely have a lot to say about that last one.
Personally I give more credit to Kaladin ordering the honorspren to bond Rlain, the spren actually spent time observing Rlain before accepting Kaladin's order to bond him, and he deemed Rlain worthy of a bond, the Stormfather choose Dalinar because he was ordered to, the Sibling bonded a human because it was bond or die, the Honorspren could have rejected Rlain, but he choose not to, many people overlook this detail, there is racism between the Honorspren, only if they are forced to not discriminate, they will continue to avoid bonding singers.
I'm not quite sure I follow. It sounds like you are saying that Tumi is the honorspren Kaladin ordered to bond Rlain? Which is not the case. That honorspren was named Yunfah, and refused to bond Rlain. Tumi is a mistspren. Perhaps I'm not understanding your point?
@@myrddin173 Yunfah agreed to bond Rlain after some days looking at him, He's not very happy about, but he agreed to bond Rlain after looking at him, but Rlain rejected the bond because very personal feeling about Kaladin's initial order, but my point is that many bonds started the same way, for fear or external orders.
Frankly, throwing around "racism" when it comes to what essentially is soul-bonding is a bit trivializing. From the beginning it was obvious that Renarin wasn't Windrunner material, and an Honorspren recognizing that is hardly racist.
@@joshuafischer684 Sigzil is a prime example of a not-windrunner material still being choosen as one, so, the bonds does not work in exclusive fashion, the skybreakers did this for centuries, they took other possible radiants and turned into Skybreakers.
Similarly venli is not a great will shaper and yet she bonds a spren all the same. The knights radiant were not all paragons like kaladin at the start.
"I assume people who don't like shipping haven't made it this far into the episode." You underestimate me. But then again, I do really like Renarin, so I guess I can deal with a little shipping to get an episode on how cool Renarin is.
Dalinar makes a Dalinar shaped hole in society for him to fit into. Just like he makes a Dalinar shaped hole in any other obstacle that gets in his way.
So, his oaths might be regarding his outcast nature A key part of truth and fact is that they are considered unaffected by opinions. His oaths might be about accepting that he should be more truthful in not caring about societal opinion, because the truths he seeks don’t either
Exactly. I'm figuring that the 10 days will be just Part 1 or maybe Part 2. I have high expectations for Book 5. And I'm talking "End of Hero of Ages" level expectations.
I think Ian made a good point about the tendency to stereotype these Radiant orders, and I'm glad he brought up the idea that spying is a totally legitimate operation for a Truthwatcher! Loving the podcast :)
I think enlightened raidents need an element of breaking convention in there oaths. Like Maybe to advance in your oaths as a enlightened truthwatcher you need to disrupt something in some way so it will be seen in a different light. Perhaps "i will reveal the truth" instead of seek?
I found out about this ship and WoB when I saw the art that was used for the thumbnail, and I told *EVERYONE*... so I really enjoyed this one, especially for the emotional appeal
"He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear!"Kaladin and Dalinar will die. Renarin will pick up the fallen titles: the tower and crown of the Kholins and Kaladin's spear.
I have seen some ship posts about Rlain and Renarin before Rhythm of War. They were really rare but I've seen some, they kind of got me into it about maybe a few months before the book came out. Those people must be really happy about it :D
Wonderful Shardcast, as usual. I'm excited to see Rlarin blossom in the next book (hopefully). Ehhh comatose 🇨🇦 Cheers from a fellow hockey scarred Canadian (in Nova Scotia)!
I wouldn't be surprised if. The Alethi highlords and Queen Jasnah. Tell Kaladin that there is a need for a new Highlord over Sadeas. They need someone that is from the Sadeas lands. Someone that could unite. No one is better to do that than a National Hero. Then in a different scene Adolin is rolling on the floor laughing his ass off. Saying something like he suggested it. That he didn't think any one serious.
Robert Jenkins this should totally happen, though I feel like this would just increase the kaladin cult and the fact that the girls are basically following like paparazzi
I think Adolin's ark is not to be a leader, but the opposite. I think a lot about his conversation of responsibility with Azure. It feels like it could be setting him up to step away and take a different path than his father (and perhaps leave that role to Renarin. Or Jasnah). And I think that is seen when he refuses to become King of Alethkar and gives that role to Jasnah instead. I instead expect him and Shallan to be a worldhopping power couple. Where is possible Edgedancer-ness could play into his future actions.
What makes me so happy is that I always headcanonned Renarin as gay, maybe because I feel really identified with him. One more reason why he's my favorite character in this series!
The Alethi definitely have these defined social roles for their straight couples, but we have also seen that they're pretty permissive of same sex couples. We have that whole scene in OB with Sigzil and Kaladin talking about Drehy. So we know that Drehy and Dru are considered fairly normal, but we don't see what kind of pressure they have on them to conform or not conform to alethi standards of "coupledom". Also, we have never seen a same sex couple among the listeners and have no idea how they culturally perceive that. Is it taboo? Is it normal? Is it simply not talked about? If you go into mateform and discover that you have same sex attraction do you just back off into the closet and swear off mateform? So we're hopefully going to end up with more information on that eventually, because it will affect how Rlain and Renairin's relationship develops and plays out. I don't write fics but if any of yall do and you feel like writing a cute story where Rlain tries to join Renairin in his scholarship because he believes that they are a scholarpair now, and Renairin is a bit uncomfortable because Rlain isn't doing the Alethi division of labor, and hijinks ensue until they have a big heart to heart and realize that they have to forge their own ways of working apart from the cultures that raised them... do it.
1:06:00 The reason Rlain was sold to a bridge crew is because he accidentally solved a math problem for his owner while in dullform, and I think that kind of speaks to a bit of booksmarts in him.
Yess... I can finally send in my White Sand WTCC now that I've finished the canon version. Who knows what could've been changed between the prose and the graphic novels, right? Couldn't help but watching that first since I don't really have time to watch/listen to the entire episode right now
@@17thShard thanks for the reply, Eric! Yeah, everything so far has seemed dull or just couldn't see it for Kaladin. But every interaction with Leshwi just screamed potential for Kaladin.
I'm so so so exited to see Branson write a gay relationship!! I feel like it's something really lacking in high fantasy (at least I haven't seen it) and could potentially make a lot more people interested in his books :)
When I red all the the scenes you just talked about I felt nu sexual tension between Renarin and Rlain at all. Just an outcast and an introvert finding a nice person to talk to who aren't judgy.
I know that this was a long time ago but... Has anyone speak about the posibility that the times when odium conection with moash is broken is because a powerful radiant made its oath? The same way that the heralds regains some sanity? That also could explain to me why renarin v moash has so effective at the begging of ROW.
Re: the makeup of Renarin's (and eventually Rlain's) shardplate, I desperately need him to go home to Kholinar to try to save Sja-Anat from some threat, only to get glommed onto by a city's worth of corrupted spren, forming the most kickass plate imaginable. I would love to see Adolin pulled into some other pivotal role and for Renarin become Highprince of a land that began as his ancestral home and has become the domain of Glys' family.
I absolutely love Rlain! I love most of the Parshendi, including Venli and Eshonai. I wish we had more of them in Rhythm of War and less Navani. I was pretty disappointed with that. Spoilers I wish Rlain had bonded with the Sibling instead of Navani.
@@voidsabre_ same. I didn’t mind her as a side character. She was fine. But she didn’t have any POV chapters in the previous three books and now all of a sudden she’s a main character? It was extremely jarring. I was told this was to be Eshonai’s book so I got really tired of the Navani chapters which were so long. She worked as a minor character, but we got an overload of her in this book. I wish we got to know more about the Parshendi or had more Adolin and Shallan scenes.
Am I the only one who is creeped out by the idea of a romance between Rlain & Renarin? I mean, they’re different species. I just see them as good friends who understand each other.
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of a romantic relationship between a human and a parshendi... like you said, the two are quite different. It just feels weird to me personally. But hey, if it makes other people happy than I guess it's okay, I just don't prefer it.
@@medomai Oh that's really cool, I didn't realize that Herdazians and Horneaters had singer heritage. But yeah, I'm not denying that it has happened or that it could happen... I definitely think that human/singer relationships will be prominent in the series... I just personally don't enjoy it, that's all.
i agree that it probably mean more to Rlain to bond tumi but i dont belive that bonding the simbling would be without reason or merit not even counting him being a personification of Warlight , his work throughout the series have always been with the aim to unite instead of divide culminating with the scenein the plaza where he bosses around fused (like an other bomdsmith we know would do) and unites people to stand against senseless slaughter .... damn ... that was a good scene i need to reread it
Yep, like Wraith said, it's the shortened version of relationSHIP, and it's become the go-to term for fandoms when talking about relationships between characters.
I've been wanting to watch these Shardcasts ever since I started reading Way of Kings but I don't want anything spoiled so I've been waiting till I'm done with all the Cosmere up to now. The most seemingly innocuous detail can ruin reveals and I learned my lesson after reading an article about SLA and the writer left a _huge_ spoiler right in the second paragraph. Seriously though, why would you just casually toss in the true identity of the Voidbringers like it's not one of the biggest revelations of the entire series?? So I have tried to cut myself off from most media surrounding the Cosmere.
I gasp-laughed at the book 5 becoming a romance novel comment and immediately picture Kaladin in a Bridgerton style dress at a ball turning all the ladies heads. Can't wait to see Renarin + Rlain, and hopefully more LGBTQIA+ characters.
I'm imagining Adolin finding out about the potential relationship, and nervously having to give Renarin "the talk", because Dalinar never got around to it.
Oh my gosh yesss, and pattern joining in and trying to tell him everything he's learned
@@alyssatorngren9506 would Pattern still be in the "no mating" mindset?
@@wraith.ferron maybe he'd insist for old times sake
Do gay radiants need to have the talk? What’s the risk?
@@Wilks228 the talk isn't just the birds and the bees or STDs; it should also be about sex, valuing yourself, and how you treat your companion. Adolin has had many failures in relationships, and would likely have a lot to say about that last one.
Personally I give more credit to Kaladin ordering the honorspren to bond Rlain, the spren actually spent time observing Rlain before accepting Kaladin's order to bond him, and he deemed Rlain worthy of a bond, the Stormfather choose Dalinar because he was ordered to, the Sibling bonded a human because it was bond or die, the Honorspren could have rejected Rlain, but he choose not to, many people overlook this detail, there is racism between the Honorspren, only if they are forced to not discriminate, they will continue to avoid bonding singers.
I'm not quite sure I follow. It sounds like you are saying that Tumi is the honorspren Kaladin ordered to bond Rlain? Which is not the case. That honorspren was named Yunfah, and refused to bond Rlain. Tumi is a mistspren. Perhaps I'm not understanding your point?
@@myrddin173 Yunfah agreed to bond Rlain after some days looking at him, He's not very happy about, but he agreed to bond Rlain after looking at him, but Rlain rejected the bond because very personal feeling about Kaladin's initial order, but my point is that many bonds started the same way, for fear or external orders.
Frankly, throwing around "racism" when it comes to what essentially is soul-bonding is a bit trivializing. From the beginning it was obvious that Renarin wasn't Windrunner material, and an Honorspren recognizing that is hardly racist.
@@joshuafischer684 Sigzil is a prime example of a not-windrunner material still being choosen as one, so, the bonds does not work in exclusive fashion, the skybreakers did this for centuries, they took other possible radiants and turned into Skybreakers.
Similarly venli is not a great will shaper and yet she bonds a spren all the same. The knights radiant were not all paragons like kaladin at the start.
4:50 I like how Alyx describes Renarin in the same way one could describe a disney princess
Renarin is Elsa from Frozen! Mind blown
Also, what would be the relationship name? Rlarin? Renain? Rlaintionship.
I like Rlainarin for the ship
@@gaborivero2572 I like it, too. I commented pretty soon after starting the video, I think maybe Alyx said that one.
R²
*heavy groan*
I always call them Renarlain. I know it's not the """correct" ship name but for me it sounds better I guess
Honestly I’m on the same page as Kaladin when it comes to these types of things. Not even remotely aware of it until some one points it out to my.
Feather: I'd kill Renarin first, before I do that I will unmake Sja-Annat
I trusted you all... you quote me out of context... my reputation is ruined...
I'll be sure to tweet this out, Feather. -Eric
On Matt's sports team comparison, I'd pay good money for a Bridge 4 hockey jersey.
Thats a fun merch idea. Despite my disdain generally I dig it :).
"I assume people who don't like shipping haven't made it this far into the episode."
You underestimate me. But then again, I do really like Renarin, so I guess I can deal with a little shipping to get an episode on how cool Renarin is.
What does shipping mean?
Dalinar makes a Dalinar shaped hole in society for him to fit into. Just like he makes a Dalinar shaped hole in any other obstacle that gets in his way.
The bestest ship, finer than the Wandersail.
So, his oaths might be regarding his outcast nature
A key part of truth and fact is that they are considered unaffected by opinions. His oaths might be about accepting that he should be more truthful in not caring about societal opinion, because the truths he seeks don’t either
OMG, I want a Renarin/Rlain warpair so bad, like the Pepper/Iron Man fight sequences in Endgame.
Book 7 is just Renarin complaining that Rlain snores in the rhythms of roshar.
I really think it's unlikely the "10 days" will extend to the end of part 3. There will be aftermath that has to be dealt with.
Exactly. I'm figuring that the 10 days will be just Part 1 or maybe Part 2. I have high expectations for Book 5. And I'm talking "End of Hero of Ages" level expectations.
I think "Secret keepers" might be a great official name for enlightened truth watchers.
I think Ian made a good point about the tendency to stereotype these Radiant orders, and I'm glad he brought up the idea that spying is a totally legitimate operation for a Truthwatcher! Loving the podcast :)
I think enlightened raidents need an element of breaking convention in there oaths. Like Maybe to advance in your oaths as a enlightened truthwatcher you need to disrupt something in some way so it will be seen in a different light. Perhaps "i will reveal the truth" instead of seek?
I found out about this ship and WoB when I saw the art that was used for the thumbnail, and I told *EVERYONE*... so I really enjoyed this one, especially for the emotional appeal
I have to wait until tomorrow to watch this all the way, but I'm leaving a comment and a ❤ for the algorithm and my Shardcast friends.
Another great Saturday podcast so I can watch the UFC on mute. Thank you all!
Life before death radiant.
@@wingracer1614 strength before weakness, gancho
"He must pick it up, the fallen title! The tower, the crown, and the spear!"Kaladin and Dalinar will die. Renarin will pick up the fallen titles: the tower and crown of the Kholins and Kaladin's spear.
I have seen some ship posts about Rlain and Renarin before Rhythm of War. They were really rare but I've seen some, they kind of got me into it about maybe a few months before the book came out. Those people must be really happy about it :D
Is this the shortest intro in Shardcast history?
Of course it is! Argent and Jebus aren't there!
@@telekinesys7025 definitely some good points there
Chaos is totally the sanest of the heralds, just like Ishar, what did you do to the Argent-spren?
Wonderful Shardcast, as usual. I'm excited to see Rlarin blossom in the next book (hopefully).
Ehhh comatose 🇨🇦 Cheers from a fellow hockey scarred Canadian (in Nova Scotia)!
Highlight of my weekend, every time ❤️
I wouldn't be surprised if. The Alethi highlords and Queen Jasnah. Tell Kaladin that there is a need for a new Highlord over Sadeas. They need someone that is from the Sadeas lands. Someone that could unite. No one is better to do that than a National Hero. Then in a different scene Adolin is rolling on the floor laughing his ass off. Saying something like he suggested it. That he didn't think any one serious.
Robert Jenkins this should totally happen, though I feel like this would just increase the kaladin cult and the fact that the girls are basically following like paparazzi
I think its odd that Matt had such a hardline view that Bridge 4 was straight central, Drehy is right there my man.
I think Adolin's ark is not to be a leader, but the opposite. I think a lot about his conversation of responsibility with Azure. It feels like it could be setting him up to step away and take a different path than his father (and perhaps leave that role to Renarin. Or Jasnah). And I think that is seen when he refuses to become King of Alethkar and gives that role to Jasnah instead. I instead expect him and Shallan to be a worldhopping power couple. Where is possible Edgedancer-ness could play into his future actions.
Yes! I got the first WTCC right before Ian guessed them.
And then _almost_ got the second one, but picked the wrong brother.
What makes me so happy is that I always headcanonned Renarin as gay, maybe because I feel really identified with him. One more reason why he's my favorite character in this series!
Same
Same!
The Alethi definitely have these defined social roles for their straight couples, but we have also seen that they're pretty permissive of same sex couples. We have that whole scene in OB with Sigzil and Kaladin talking about Drehy. So we know that Drehy and Dru are considered fairly normal, but we don't see what kind of pressure they have on them to conform or not conform to alethi standards of "coupledom". Also, we have never seen a same sex couple among the listeners and have no idea how they culturally perceive that. Is it taboo? Is it normal? Is it simply not talked about? If you go into mateform and discover that you have same sex attraction do you just back off into the closet and swear off mateform? So we're hopefully going to end up with more information on that eventually, because it will affect how Rlain and Renairin's relationship develops and plays out.
I don't write fics but if any of yall do and you feel like writing a cute story where Rlain tries to join Renairin in his scholarship because he believes that they are a scholarpair now, and Renairin is a bit uncomfortable because Rlain isn't doing the Alethi division of labor, and hijinks ensue until they have a big heart to heart and realize that they have to forge their own ways of working apart from the cultures that raised them... do it.
I like mechanics AND shipping...
Love it folks! Thanks for all your doing!
Mark my words: Renarin and Rlain will steal the show in the 10th SA book!
1:06:00 The reason Rlain was sold to a bridge crew is because he accidentally solved a math problem for his owner while in dullform, and I think that kind of speaks to a bit of booksmarts in him.
I hope Alyx never climbs down off of her hard-earned high horse. Day 1. What a legend.
Alone together ❤
Yess... I can finally send in my White Sand WTCC now that I've finished the canon version. Who knows what could've been changed between the prose and the graphic novels, right?
Couldn't help but watching that first since I don't really have time to watch/listen to the entire episode right now
This whole episode just makes me want more ship it or rip it
It'll happen! We just have so many topics after Rhythm of War! -Eric
Love what you guys do. See ya on the discord.
Good luck with convinci an honor spren to accept Odium's corruption
Am I the only one who thinks Leshwi+Kaladin is a possible thing?? I was definitely getting some of those vibes throughout their encounters.
You have a point but I got more of two masters of their craft with mutual respect for one another.
I would certainly say this is pretty easy to ship nowadays. -Eric
@@17thShard thanks for the reply, Eric! Yeah, everything so far has seemed dull or just couldn't see it for Kaladin. But every interaction with Leshwi just screamed potential for Kaladin.
I'm so so so exited to see Branson write a gay relationship!! I feel like it's something really lacking in high fantasy (at least I haven't seen it) and could potentially make a lot more people interested in his books :)
In terms of what the Honorspren are going to do. They have a Mr Vivisection Bondsmith coming in their direction.
When I red all the the scenes you just talked about I felt nu sexual tension between Renarin and Rlain at all. Just an outcast and an introvert finding a nice person to talk to who aren't judgy.
I know that this was a long time ago but... Has anyone speak about the posibility that the times when odium conection with moash is broken is because a powerful radiant made its oath? The same way that the heralds regains some sanity? That also could explain to me why renarin v moash has so effective at the begging of ROW.
You guys rock :)
Alyx - it’s called ‘a three beat’
10:01bridge four is ruined for me now because I get what you mean, nooooo
I'm so so sorry for doing this to you.
Re: the makeup of Renarin's (and eventually Rlain's) shardplate, I desperately need him to go home to Kholinar to try to save Sja-Anat from some threat, only to get glommed onto by a city's worth of corrupted spren, forming the most kickass plate imaginable. I would love to see Adolin pulled into some other pivotal role and for Renarin become Highprince of a land that began as his ancestral home and has become the domain of Glys' family.
so you could say - in future books, as feather so eloquently put it - they'll be uh. tapping the same future. phrasing.
I def don’t think Glys and Renarin bonded before The Way of Kings
Moash can tell the difference between the rhythms.
I absolutely love Rlain! I love most of the Parshendi, including Venli and Eshonai. I wish we had more of them in Rhythm of War and less Navani. I was pretty disappointed with that.
Spoilers
I wish Rlain had bonded with the Sibling instead of Navani.
Yeah, me too honestly. I know everyone seems to be in love with Navani but personally she's just okay to me
@@voidsabre_ same. I didn’t mind her as a side character. She was fine. But she didn’t have any POV chapters in the previous three books and now all of a sudden she’s a main character? It was extremely jarring. I was told this was to be Eshonai’s book so I got really tired of the Navani chapters which were so long. She worked as a minor character, but we got an overload of her in this book. I wish we got to know more about the Parshendi or had more Adolin and Shallan scenes.
Not true. She had a POV in WOK. A whole part with POVs from her in WOR and mutilpe POVs in Oathbringer...
If you Unmake Argent you could remake him as Aurum.
Am I the only one who is creeped out by the idea of a romance between Rlain & Renarin? I mean, they’re different species. I just see them as good friends who understand each other.
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of a romantic relationship between a human and a parshendi... like you said, the two are quite different. It just feels weird to me personally. But hey, if it makes other people happy than I guess it's okay, I just don't prefer it.
Humans and singers have definitely have DEFINITELY gotten together before - Herdazians and Rockeaters have both human and singer heritage.
@@medomai Oh that's really cool, I didn't realize that Herdazians and Horneaters had singer heritage. But yeah, I'm not denying that it has happened or that it could happen... I definitely think that human/singer relationships will be prominent in the series... I just personally don't enjoy it, that's all.
I think it's good to normalize relations between the species. Also, Adonalsium kind of designed them so they could interbreed. -Eric
i agree that it probably mean more to Rlain to bond tumi
but i dont belive that bonding the simbling would be without reason or merit
not even counting him being a personification of Warlight , his work throughout the series have always been with the aim to unite instead of divide culminating with the scenein the plaza where he bosses around fused (like an other bomdsmith we know would do) and unites people to stand against senseless slaughter ....
damn ... that was a good scene i need to reread it
*admires Grace quietly and without comment* xD 😆
Boy do I hate shipping. Still listen to every episode of shardcast. And to be honest I don't HATE it, I just don't get the appeal.
WOOT
What does SHIP mean??
It means to want a coupling of characters. To want them in a relationship.
Yep, like Wraith said, it's the shortened version of relationSHIP, and it's become the go-to term for fandoms when talking about relationships between characters.
Does anybody else wonder if Yasnah & Wit are attracted to each other?
What is your guises discord? How do I join?
Link is in the description. -Eric
Carnal form weekend
I've been wanting to watch these Shardcasts ever since I started reading Way of Kings but I don't want anything spoiled so I've been waiting till I'm done with all the Cosmere up to now. The most seemingly innocuous detail can ruin reveals and I learned my lesson after reading an article about SLA and the writer left a _huge_ spoiler right in the second paragraph. Seriously though, why would you just casually toss in the true identity of the Voidbringers like it's not one of the biggest revelations of the entire series?? So I have tried to cut myself off from most media surrounding the Cosmere.
I ship Gatordin
I feel like I'm the only person that doesn't vibe with this potential ship.
I gasp-laughed at the book 5 becoming a romance novel comment and immediately picture Kaladin in a Bridgerton style dress at a ball turning all the ladies heads.
Can't wait to see Renarin + Rlain, and hopefully more LGBTQIA+ characters.
It's like ok, we only have 10 left... let's do this! Lol