I’ve had the Wing in my studio for three years. It’s just fantastic. The bus send thing takes minutes to get used to. The recordings we get are excellent. No regrets.
Hi Andy .I need some help.I like writing guitar songs I got the wing but don’t know how to go about to record them(songs) using the wing.any advice on how you use wing in the studio? Thanks
I love the wing! I’ve mixed on the x32 for over a decade and had a little over a year with a wing. The routing took some time to wrap my head around, but the mixing experience is SO much better on the wing. Here’s a list of the top of my head: *large touchscreen *16 effects slots (although you’ll most likely use less slots than the x32 because of the next 2 features) *ability to change out built-in compressor with select dynamic plugins - like an la2a, 1176, or stressor - on every channel *ability to change out the gate for select plugins (like a de-essor) on every channel *2 inserts for every channel *better plugins *ridiculous amount of I/O - something like 374 inputs between physical, AES50, USB, Stageconnect, etc. *every channel can be stereo, so no need to link channels, just have to have more input boxes *16 channels of automix- which can by assigned to any channel, not just the first 8 like the x32 *user defined channel arrangements for all 3 sections I’m sure there’s more, but that’s what I could think of off the top of my head. I’ve gotten better mixes on the wing.. I love mixing on it!!
Having used various X32 components (Console, Rack, Stage Boxes) for about ten years, I am very happy with the interface and the operation. Where I have a concern is about hardware quality. I have an X32 Rack in my home that I use daily and use to test configurations for my church. It has worked flawlessly for years. After 9 years the power supply started to die. It would take several minutes for the Rack to boot up. Once it was up, all was good. It took me over SIX MONTHS to get a new power supply! What's worse is that I couldn't buy from Behringer or Sweetwater. I had to buy from the one and only supplier in the USA. They had a massive waiting list for parts for the X32 family. During that time I researched other support issues. There are a number of them. One in particular is that I'm not looking forward to when the Clock battery dies in the Console. Opening up the clamshell is a bugger. How's the supportability of the Wing?
Hey Kade, nicely done. I agree with your assessment 1000%. I just upgraded from my M32 to the Wing mostly for the flexibility the WING offers. And yeah I work at Sweetwater Greg Savino, ext. 1357
For X32 owners - it's not just the upgrade to Wing that would need to be purchased but also a stage-box for inputs. The stagebox could be right at the Wing where your snake arrives, just needs to be purchased separately. For new-installations, you can use a digital snake (Cat-5e, etc) to place the stagebox at the state itself and run just one or a couple cables (always pull a spare or two). If you want a good stage box, that can be $1500 or sometimes more if needing 32-inputs. Missing the days of an X32 being $2k.. And it's volunteer "different" - needing to re-train everyone who is not an audio-tech to handle the Wing. That shouldn't be taken lightly.
I'd buy the X32 again any day of the week and if I ever wanted to upgrade the X32, I'd get the more premium version of the X32... the Midas M32. With the Midas M32, there is no worry about a learning curve as the two consoles are virtually identical software-wise. Also, no need to buy new stage boxes as the X32 stage boxes are compatible with the M32 and all my saved mix settings on the X32 would transition effortlessly on the M32. One thing i love about the X32 is its smaller rack mixers like the XR18 which are not only light and portable, but also come in handy for road trips and the comfort of mixing from anywhere in the venue from my iPad.
I love the wing, the only thing it’s missing it’s MORE BUSES, 16 is not enough for everything We need 24 or 32, I’m praying for an update that adds more of them
Agreed! To be derminted on if we will keep it around. Trying to decide if it's worth putting our volunteers through the hassle of learning a new mixer when the X32 is working great.
5:32 "extra dollars to get 8 more inputs" - It's *NOT* 8 more inputs. It's 8 more channels! Big difference, as all channels in WING are stereo, so you get from 8 up to 48 more inputs depending on your specific configuration. Yes. Up to 48, because all other 32 channels are also stereo, so if you fill all of them with stereo inputs (keyboards perhaps?) it's possible to get so much inputs on only 40 channels (=80 inputs). BIG BIG BIG difference. Currently I'm touring with Pink Floyd tribute band. We have about 40 physical inputs which I crammed into 30 channels on WING (because stereo overheards, stereo rototoms, stereo guitars and stereo keyboards).
How many useable busses are there? I find that I'm locked to way fewer than I really need on the x32 because I want to go to all wireless in ear monitors with their own busses so they can control a full mix in their ears instead of using the p16s that are limited to 16 channels, but also need effects and parallel stereo busses for drums to have a crush buss,
You bet! More RUclips content to come on the WING. We also plan on releasing a course for the WING. You can sign up to be notified about it here: collaborateworship.com/wing-mastery/?EbSjWFcDLyU
What killed the Wing as a upgrade from the X32 is the i/o with only 8 on board mic preamps and 48K sampling rate the actual cost is enormous compared to an X32. All Behringer had to do is include 16 Mic pres and or wouldn't have been such a disappointment. Building a mixer like this is OK if you are a company like DigiCo or SSL but Behringer went down the wrong road on this one. Everything else is great except the 48K sampling rate, and lack of i/o so unless you already have one of the Behringer Snakes for more Mic Preamps you will be sadly disappointed.
The concept of the WING was never to build a desk with as many i/o onboard as processing is available from my perspective. What would have been the right number? 32, 40, 48? The WING is a digital console with a huge number of i/o‘s that can be handled. So it is more than right not to integrate i/o‘s in the console but giving it a high amount of connectivity. Most of all digital setups I can see today are a combination of a console plus a digital snake. I would not have had interest in any additional i/o built in and I also would not have wanted to pay for such a useless addon. The WING is compatible with Behringer but also with Midas snakes. This is a really important opportunity so you can have high quality preamps as i/o‘s - way better than those that are built in. Concerning the 48kHz discussion: From my perspective this is a technology nerds discussion. 98% of the live audience does not hear any difference of an 48 or 96 kHz console. Just last weekend I worked as soundtec in a large festival where several bands showed up all with their own consoles. X32, SQ6, Midas M32 and even an analogue Midas. The PA was a db audio line array. And guess what: The quality of sound was not based on the console or the kHz rate the bands used. First and foremost the sound quality was related to the knowledge and the competence of the soundtec.
@@thomas_ger4098 2 points first the i/o the majority of people who would have upgraded from a x32 to a wing will be lower since the amount of i/o is insufficient for nearly everyone. This is why Behringer should have released it with at least 16 inputs which is the standard for most digital consoles. 16 inputs will accommodate a 4 to 5 piece band and most small churches. The Wing Preamps are Midas Pro Preamps (the same as the Midas Snakes) So using a behringer snake would be a downgrade in preamp since they use the Midas Designed preamp. Secondly 48k versus 96K isn't about the crowd being able to hear it or sound quality and never has been. It is about the latency being cut in half when using in-ear-monitors professional tools like Waves Soundgrid or just using plugins with tools like Apple Mainstage. On top of that the higher the sampling rate the better the phase coherency As a gamer you understand how terrible latency is right? 48K in 2023 is a no go due to most engineers who actually do this for a living. The abysmal latency incurred from 48K is pretty terrible for a console made today. Allen & Heath SQ line and Yamaha's new DM line and even Behringer's very own Midas Heritage HD96 understand this. But I think the Wing came out a year too early and wasn't well thought through. They wanted something on the market to compete since the X32/M32 line is from 2012. So after 10 years the Best Behringer could come up with is a console with 8 mic preamps that runs at 48K? You can go back a decade and read through post after post about how the two upgrades everyone wanted for the x32 was 96K and a touchscreen. But sure if you already own one of the Behringer/Midas digital snakes then the Wing is fine as an upgrade. But if you are a church or band who has been using anything else then you won't even consider the Wing. Because the wing costs $4200 plus the cost of a S16 or SD16 is another $750 and the S32 is another $1200, so totaling that up comes to $5000 or $5400 just to get started. When you compare that to the X32 which came in multiple sizes to fit multiple budgets the Wing being a single solitary device with old converters and a forced upgrade its kind of a bad investment compared to the competition from other brands. Take the SQ5 from Allen and Heath it has 16 mic preamps and runs at 96K on an FPGA (not DSP like the Wing) for less money and no need to get a snake if the i/o on the SQ5 is enough. Hopefully you can see my point. This device only caters to a select few in the Behringer/Midas eco system and that will lose them market share in the long run since New console buyers will want the most bang for their buck and will look elsewhere for a better deal. Behringer should make a smaller chassis with more i/o and less faders to market the wing to new buyers. It just hurt Behringer since it will be harder to convince people to invest in the Wing right now compared to the other option on the market. The Wing is an powerful device but it has a few crippling drawbacks that will keep many people from upgrading to the Wing over just buying a 10 year old X32 or something else. Cheers!
@@joesalyers on the one hand you are talking about professionals using IEM (by the way the stereo busses are one important improvement for IEM) and on the other you are talking about 16 inputs onboard the console. I do not know any band in my region here that would not use a digital snake already. So what is the benefit of 16 inputs onboard? Comparing the H96 and the Yamaha DM with the Wing are two completely different things in total different price ranges. Concerning the latency I have to be honest I do not have any experience with it. But I can only report that I am using the Wing with 2 bands with IEM and we do not have any latency issues. And to be honest: I am still not convinced that the kHz rate is THAT important to latency and for the use of a console. The old Yamahas CL worked with 44.1 kHz and were used a lot in professional environment. At the same time there was an interesting YT video of Dave Rat that showed that the X32 has a lower latency than the 10times more expensive CL series. So I doubt that this is really an issue with the Wing
@thomas_ger4098 Most time, not only mixer give you quality sound, but the quality of the speakers too, hence a lot of people can't tell the difference between 48khz and 95khz, at the end of the day the sound engineer that knows what he is doing will give a great sound with any mixer. I like the wing, though sa dealer, I am considering it as my next order. I just have to add one stage box, I believe it will do well for live band use.
I've been using the X32 since December 2022 and I've learned a lot, but I still get thrown at times by the routing. I hope that maybe in future versions of firmware, that maybe there will be some improvements : )
I’ve had the Wing in my studio for three years. It’s just fantastic. The bus send thing takes minutes to get used to. The recordings we get are excellent. No regrets.
Great to hear!
Hi Andy .I need some help.I like writing guitar songs I got the wing but don’t know how to go about to record them(songs) using the wing.any advice on how you use wing in the studio? Thanks
I love the wing! I’ve mixed on the x32 for over a decade and had a little over a year with a wing.
The routing took some time to wrap my head around, but the mixing experience is SO much better on the wing. Here’s a list of the top of my head:
*large touchscreen
*16 effects slots (although you’ll most likely use less slots than the x32 because of the next 2 features)
*ability to change out built-in compressor with select dynamic plugins - like an la2a, 1176, or stressor - on every channel
*ability to change out the gate for select plugins (like a de-essor) on every channel
*2 inserts for every channel
*better plugins
*ridiculous amount of I/O - something like 374 inputs between physical, AES50, USB, Stageconnect, etc.
*every channel can be stereo, so no need to link channels, just have to have more input boxes
*16 channels of automix- which can by assigned to any channel, not just the first 8 like the x32
*user defined channel arrangements for all 3 sections
I’m sure there’s more, but that’s what I could think of off the top of my head. I’ve gotten better mixes on the wing.. I love mixing on it!!
So good! Thank you for this list. I should have mentioned the mono/stereo feature for each channel! Such a better workflow.
Having used various X32 components (Console, Rack, Stage Boxes) for about ten years, I am very happy with the interface and the operation. Where I have a concern is about hardware quality. I have an X32 Rack in my home that I use daily and use to test configurations for my church. It has worked flawlessly for years. After 9 years the power supply started to die. It would take several minutes for the Rack to boot up. Once it was up, all was good. It took me over SIX MONTHS to get a new power supply! What's worse is that I couldn't buy from Behringer or Sweetwater. I had to buy from the one and only supplier in the USA. They had a massive waiting list for parts for the X32 family. During that time I researched other support issues. There are a number of them. One in particular is that I'm not looking forward to when the Clock battery dies in the Console. Opening up the clamshell is a bugger.
How's the supportability of the Wing?
Understandable. To be fair though, we've heard these kinds of stories about other brands as well. 🤷♂
Hey Kade, nicely done. I agree with your assessment 1000%. I just upgraded from my M32 to the Wing mostly for the flexibility the WING offers. And yeah I work at Sweetwater Greg Savino, ext. 1357
For X32 owners - it's not just the upgrade to Wing that would need to be purchased but also a stage-box for inputs. The stagebox could be right at the Wing where your snake arrives, just needs to be purchased separately. For new-installations, you can use a digital snake (Cat-5e, etc) to place the stagebox at the state itself and run just one or a couple cables (always pull a spare or two). If you want a good stage box, that can be $1500 or sometimes more if needing 32-inputs. Missing the days of an X32 being $2k.. And it's volunteer "different" - needing to re-train everyone who is not an audio-tech to handle the Wing. That shouldn't be taken lightly.
Great input. Thank you!
@@collabworship How many people still use a copper snake?
@@AllenPendletonYeah copper snakes go bad and in a big way and they are sooooooo…. Heavy
The plug-in suite on the WING alone make it worth the extra $$$! That tape sim is excellent. (Oh and STEREO channels! One fader for both L&R)
Yes!
I'd buy the X32 again any day of the week and if I ever wanted to upgrade the X32, I'd get the more premium version of the X32... the Midas M32. With the Midas M32, there is no worry about a learning curve as the two consoles are virtually identical software-wise. Also, no need to buy new stage boxes as the X32 stage boxes are compatible with the M32 and all my saved mix settings on the X32 would transition effortlessly on the M32. One thing i love about the X32 is its smaller rack mixers like the XR18 which are not only light and portable, but also come in handy for road trips and the comfort of mixing from anywhere in the venue from my iPad.
I love the wing, the only thing it’s missing it’s MORE BUSES, 16 is not enough for everything We need 24 or 32, I’m praying for an update that adds more of them
they now have the dn series stageconnect interfaces that you can link with them. that can be a pretty good option.
Right?! I was shocked to find out in only at 16 busses.
Love the WING! I love the routing and FX wayyy more here than on the X32. Are you planning on keeping it around?
Agreed! To be derminted on if we will keep it around. Trying to decide if it's worth putting our volunteers through the hassle of learning a new mixer when the X32 is working great.
DO YOU NEED SPEAKER MANAGEMENT SYSTEM LIKE DRIVE RACK PA2 WHEN USING DIGITAL MIXER
Where's wing compact
I doubt they will release one. But it would be great! I'd opt for a smaller footprint as well.
If there was a compact - I‘d do the switch. The Wing is too big for my theatre setups.
It’s dropping late November along with the rack
I think you are missing out a KEY difference. Stereo Channels. This alone is worth the upgrade.
In hindsight, yes, I should have talked about that. Stereo capability for every channel is a game changer.
5:32 "extra dollars to get 8 more inputs" - It's *NOT* 8 more inputs. It's 8 more channels! Big difference, as all channels in WING are stereo, so you get from 8 up to 48 more inputs depending on your specific configuration. Yes. Up to 48, because all other 32 channels are also stereo, so if you fill all of them with stereo inputs (keyboards perhaps?) it's possible to get so much inputs on only 40 channels (=80 inputs).
BIG BIG BIG difference.
Currently I'm touring with Pink Floyd tribute band. We have about 40 physical inputs which I crammed into 30 channels on WING (because stereo overheards, stereo rototoms, stereo guitars and stereo keyboards).
Good point! Great feature of the WING for sure.
How many useable busses are there? I find that I'm locked to way fewer than I really need on the x32 because I want to go to all wireless in ear monitors with their own busses so they can control a full mix in their ears instead of using the p16s that are limited to 16 channels, but also need effects and parallel stereo busses for drums to have a crush buss,
4 stereo mains busses, 16 aux stereo busses, 8 matrix busses
Would u be willing to do a how to in depth for the wing.
Growing number of videos on YT about Wing deep dives, but would be nice to see a full "from un-boxing to full implementation" video series.
You bet! More RUclips content to come on the WING. We also plan on releasing a course for the WING. You can sign up to be notified about it here: collaborateworship.com/wing-mastery/?EbSjWFcDLyU
What killed the Wing as a upgrade from the X32 is the i/o with only 8 on board mic preamps and 48K sampling rate the actual cost is enormous compared to an X32. All Behringer had to do is include 16 Mic pres and or wouldn't have been such a disappointment. Building a mixer like this is OK if you are a company like DigiCo or SSL but Behringer went down the wrong road on this one. Everything else is great except the 48K sampling rate, and lack of i/o so unless you already have one of the Behringer Snakes for more Mic Preamps you will be sadly disappointed.
Good point.
The concept of the WING was never to build a desk with as many i/o onboard as processing is available from my perspective. What would have been the right number? 32, 40, 48? The WING is a digital console with a huge number of i/o‘s that can be handled. So it is more than right not to integrate i/o‘s in the console but giving it a high amount of connectivity.
Most of all digital setups I can see today are a combination of a console plus a digital snake. I would not have had interest in any additional i/o built in and I also would not have wanted to pay for such a useless addon.
The WING is compatible with Behringer but also with Midas snakes. This is a really important opportunity so you can have high quality preamps as i/o‘s - way better than those that are built in.
Concerning the 48kHz discussion: From my perspective this is a technology nerds discussion. 98% of the live audience does not hear any difference of an 48 or 96 kHz console.
Just last weekend I worked as soundtec in a large festival where several bands showed up all with their own consoles. X32, SQ6, Midas M32 and even an analogue Midas. The PA was a db audio line array. And guess what: The quality of sound was not based on the console or the kHz rate the bands used. First and foremost the sound quality was related to the knowledge and the competence of the soundtec.
@@thomas_ger4098 2 points first the i/o the majority of people who would have upgraded from a x32 to a wing will be lower since the amount of i/o is insufficient for nearly everyone. This is why Behringer should have released it with at least 16 inputs which is the standard for most digital consoles. 16 inputs will accommodate a 4 to 5 piece band and most small churches. The Wing Preamps are Midas Pro Preamps (the same as the Midas Snakes) So using a behringer snake would be a downgrade in preamp since they use the Midas Designed preamp.
Secondly 48k versus 96K isn't about the crowd being able to hear it or sound quality and never has been. It is about the latency being cut in half when using in-ear-monitors professional tools like Waves Soundgrid or just using plugins with tools like Apple Mainstage. On top of that the higher the sampling rate the better the phase coherency As a gamer you understand how terrible latency is right? 48K in 2023 is a no go due to most engineers who actually do this for a living. The abysmal latency incurred from 48K is pretty terrible for a console made today. Allen & Heath SQ line and Yamaha's new DM line and even Behringer's very own Midas Heritage HD96 understand this. But I think the Wing came out a year too early and wasn't well thought through. They wanted something on the market to compete since the X32/M32 line is from 2012. So after 10 years the Best Behringer could come up with is a console with 8 mic preamps that runs at 48K? You can go back a decade and read through post after post about how the two upgrades everyone wanted for the x32 was 96K and a touchscreen.
But sure if you already own one of the Behringer/Midas digital snakes then the Wing is fine as an upgrade. But if you are a church or band who has been using anything else then you won't even consider the Wing. Because the wing costs $4200 plus the cost of a S16 or SD16 is another $750 and the S32 is another $1200, so totaling that up comes to $5000 or $5400 just to get started. When you compare that to the X32 which came in multiple sizes to fit multiple budgets the Wing being a single solitary device with old converters and a forced upgrade its kind of a bad investment compared to the competition from other brands. Take the SQ5 from Allen and Heath it has 16 mic preamps and runs at 96K on an FPGA (not DSP like the Wing) for less money and no need to get a snake if the i/o on the SQ5 is enough.
Hopefully you can see my point. This device only caters to a select few in the Behringer/Midas eco system and that will lose them market share in the long run since New console buyers will want the most bang for their buck and will look elsewhere for a better deal. Behringer should make a smaller chassis with more i/o and less faders to market the wing to new buyers. It just hurt Behringer since it will be harder to convince people to invest in the Wing right now compared to the other option on the market. The Wing is an powerful device but it has a few crippling drawbacks that will keep many people from upgrading to the Wing over just buying a 10 year old X32 or something else. Cheers!
@@joesalyers on the one hand you are talking about professionals using IEM (by the way the stereo busses are one important improvement for IEM) and on the other you are talking about 16 inputs onboard the console. I do not know any band in my region here that would not use a digital snake already. So what is the benefit of 16 inputs onboard?
Comparing the H96 and the Yamaha DM with the Wing are two completely different things in total different price ranges.
Concerning the latency I have to be honest I do not have any experience with it. But I can only report that I am using the Wing with 2 bands with IEM and we do not have any latency issues.
And to be honest: I am still not convinced that the kHz rate is THAT important to latency and for the use of a console. The old Yamahas CL worked with 44.1 kHz and were used a lot in professional environment. At the same time there was an interesting YT video of Dave Rat that showed that the X32 has a lower latency than the 10times more expensive CL series. So I doubt that this is really an issue with the Wing
@thomas_ger4098 Most time, not only mixer give you quality sound, but the quality of the speakers too, hence a lot of people can't tell the difference between 48khz and 95khz, at the end of the day the sound engineer that knows what he is doing will give a great sound with any mixer.
I like the wing, though sa dealer, I am considering it as my next order. I just have to add one stage box, I believe it will do well for live band use.
I've been using the X32 since December 2022 and I've learned a lot, but I still get thrown at times by the routing. I hope that maybe in future versions of firmware, that maybe there will be some improvements : )
Version 4 firmware on the X32 made a significant stride for routing. But I agree, I hope it continues to get better.
@@collabworship Thanks for the reply as always.
Wing or midas m32?
WING
Good review but you should have mentioned the stereo channels and -busses. This IS a gamechanger
Agreed! So bummed I didn't put that in the vid.
We just upgraded to wing wow a little lost.
It definitely takes some time to get used to.
Send the Wing to SOUTH AFRICA😭😢
Ich nutze Cubase 13 Pro mit Focusrite Interface. Mehr braucht kein Mensch.
To each their own.