"I don't recommend the WING for Churches" | Reaction Video
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
- Check out Worship Ministry School:
worshipministr...
Church Sound Course:
worshipministr...
Beginner Live Streaming Course:
worshipministr...
Advanced Live Streaming Course:
worshipministr...
Broadcast Mix Mastery:
worshipministr...
Download the Worship Ministry Toolkit for a complete list of our recommended gear and software:
worshipministry...
Follow Jake on Instagram: @jakegosselin
Follow Churchfront: @churchfront
FREE RESOURCES
Worship Leader Training:
worshipministr...
Ambient Pads for Worship:
www.churchfron...
Gear we use to make videos at Churchfront:
kit.co/churchf...
• • • • •
Disclaimer: This video and description contain affiliate links.
Lol, battling church tech tip youtubers is wild. Good times.
War of the ministers 😂
Here is the difference between an audio pro in the church world and a church tech. The audio pro goes for quality and the church tech goes for quantity.
Tech need to get to specific thing fast when we want it # mixing but audio ppl just want the best latest gear and the fancy plugs
No one commented on the horrible support from Behringer. This needs to be discussed as well but is not discussed on these videos on RUclips.
My one experience with the Wing was horrible for EXACTLY the reason Lee points out.
Churchfront reacting to Lee's video just feels like a huge overreach. While Jake and company do a decent job teaching church tech to beginners, Lee and the team @ MxU can take beginners to a level Churchfront could never hope to reach.
So true
Agreed with this.
Wow, that's a lot of shade
@@kronik907 in what way?
Churchfront kind of needs people to buy wings or else they don’t really have a product to sell anymore lol
Making a statement that spending more than $10k on a console is a waste of processing you’ll never need is a joke and a ridiculous statement to say. It shows a serious lack of your knowledge of large infrastructures and capabilities needed.
I’m speaking to majority of churches which have medium to small venues. Spending over $10k on a console would not make sense. Yes there are larger venues that need and justify bigger consoles
@@mattsnyder8371 I worked at a Christian college for 13 years and I was able to go on 10 tours ranging from 8-10 weeks each. I’ve been blessed to have visited over 300 churches in 47 states and I saw a lot of churches that had top of the line keyboards including Yamaha motif/montage, Nord, Korg Kronos, etc... and many of the churches just turned on those keyboards and used a piano patch. I would say that it didn’t make sense for those churches to have those pianos because they probably haven’t even considered learning how to maximize it. They could’ve spent less than half the price and invested the rest into other areas. I’ve also seen that with soundboards as well. I’ve seen many churches that have an x32 and have no clue how to use 75% of it. In my opinion they don’t need to spend $10000. Just adding my 2 cents :)
I totally agree you should get the gear you need or will grow into within the few years. That’s not what was said though. Just a random point stating over $10k is a useless waste. If this channel assumes that it’s ONLY speaking to small churches then it is what it is.
I understand your point, but Churchfront are mainly speaking to "Small to mid-sized" churches that are (usually) unlikely to use more than 32 inputs.
The Wing has 48 channels, which far exceeds what most churches are using, only super church's that have a choir and full orchestra would need to have the extra processing power of more expensive desk that has 128 inputs (like the DiGiCo desks). Also I understand there are some massive churches that will need those desks as they have something like; 3 Acoustic guitars, 2 Bass guitars, 3 stereo Keyboards, 4 stereo electric guitars, 2 fully mic'd drumkits, a full percussion section and like 15 vocalists (that like 67 inputs).
The support (or lack thereof) alone is a valid reason to stay away from the Wing or anything else Behringer/Midas.
Agree. As much as they are getting great results with the Wing but I don't want to be the guy who has to go through a buggy screen, and spend more hours than required setting up the mixer.
To me, I had a similar reaction to Jake because it almost sounded like Lee from MxU is saying different = hard to use / inferior. But that's what happens whenever you have a product that disrupts the market and does something differently to competitors. Lee in this case is frustrated that the console was different from any other console he's used before, and I think those frustrations translated to him not liking the console. He wasn't able to use the product in his "normal" way of using other consoles. I personally 100% agree with Jake here as a tech director / sound engineer for a mid size church. The first time you try to use the Wing, you're like what the heck is this thing? But the more and more you use it, the more you realize how AMAZING it is for the price. I think it is hands down the best console under $5k for sure, with the next step being the Avantis. Volunteers at our church all love the ease of use of the Wing and it's touch screen after using it for a few months and can't stand using the interface on the X32 / M32 consoles anymore.
My thoughts EXACTLY! Today I set up an X32 for a friend's church for the first time and of COURSE, it was different. I'd been mixing on large format analogs since the 80s! I'm waiting to take delivery of my own Wing this week and expect a learning curve. It's LIFE!
The best way to keep singers in a feud with sound guys is to encourage them to chromatically tune. Even on the best of singers, chromatic tuning makes them sound like they're singing out of key. Think about singers who stylistically slide, or they're hopping around on stage and start losing breathe control and sing flat for a line. I'd rather hear a singer sing a little flat than the earjerking sound of being pulled to a note out of key. A singer with heavy vibrato sounds inhuman with chromatic tuning. Its even worse and more blatant over broadcast than in the room. There aren't enough parameters on the Wing nor should we expect volunteers to know how to use them for each voice to warrant using this at all. A tuning plugin locked to a key, or nothing, IMO.
fair points being made here also another thing to consider is they didn't make the Operation of the Wing anything at all like that of the M/X32 which im not saying they have to be alike just that i should be able to walk up to any console on their line and be able to get up and running within a reasonable amount of time, its not a new Paradigm A&H has implemented the same setup they just do it better, while we are on the Allen and heath line consider this, i can walk up to any of their board, even the Dlive, their flagship, and get my way around it. also we have to consider how terrible music tribe botched the release of the Wing, and how they are essentially using us as beta testers. the Ghost touch problems people are still having to this day, the weird section to the right of the touch screen that is counter-intuitive to accomplishing virtually anything. sure the added DSP and plug-ins on the board are cool, but if i cant trust the board to operate properly, which has been proven that i can't, then im not gonna use it. JMHO from a freelance Audio engineer. save yourself some headache and stress and buy A&H
Very well said!!
Thank you ChurchFront for allowing to to bring home The Wing so we can utilize it at our church
He had the same reaction most live engineers who had worked on a ATI Paragon console would have when they would walk into a studio and see an SSL G+ or SSL J for the first time. Sure your Paragon live mixer has a similar channel strip with EQ, compression, and gate/expander, but the SSL has a completely different workflow, sound, automation, computer recall patchbay and control. So they would try to use the SSL like they would use their paragon and it would frustrate them to the point they would call the studio house engineer to help them out. This was also the case when everyone moved from analog live desks to the Yamaha 96's back in the day. When you have a new desk you can't approach it like your old desk you need to be patient and also be open minded to new ways of working. I've worked on SSL, API, Neve, MCI, Neotek, and many other studio desks but if I walk into a studio that has a desk I haven't used I take my time and ask questions. I don't start saying well this Amek sucks because it's not like the SSL I'm use too. LOL
Personally for me, there's a lot of navigations which I felt are not needed, having worked on many top Digital Mixing boards. So, the Wing is overrated. You are right, it doesn't mean it's bad...it just doesn't fit into my workflows. That's what it is.
The durability of the wing is in question. SQ is definitely better constructed.
I'm going to push back on you with your statement of oh the volunteers don't need to know how to patch things. I've had a pastor drop something in 10 minutes before service and had to patch it in figure out levels And EQ using my headphones and had it good to go in time, so patching does matter.
Why would you even do this? This just seems petty, even if it was played off as trying to be respectful.
My thoughts exactly from the moment I started the video. This was some bad form. All the more reason I push people towards MxU. You should see how Lee handled the comments made by Churchfront on the original video.
@@taylorbornyk4146 Lee is a rock solid guy. He and all MXU staff handle their comments extremely professionally. I don't think anyone involved in church tech, or any tech for that matter, should watch any videos other than theirs. Their combined knowledge is outstanding.
Because it’s fun to have these conversations. I know Lee and Jeff. I told them I was gonna do this video and they thought it would be a fun idea. Maybe we have different senses of humor. I enjoy watching RUclipsrs I follow having healthy debate.
@@Churchfront RUclipsrs having healthy debate is fine. This, however, was not healthy debate. This was petty jabs at a high end professional giving his honest review of a console that is making waves in an industry because it's cheap. In this case, that cheap also results in an ultimate sound quality that is much less than desirable.
@@taylorbornyk4146 can you give specific examples of the petty jabs? Honest question cause I'm interested in learning how people interpret what i say differently. Another question is have you spent time on a WING yourself taylor?
Well, considering all the points raised from Lee I still think he has a point
MxU has an m32 30 min mix video and a wing 1hr mix video.. while the wing took a bit longer the mix sounded WAY BETTER! Check em out!
@@JakeGuptill to be fair... The raw tracks he used on the wing mix sounded way better right out of the gate.
Yeah he has good points, I wouldn’t buy it over a M32 still
Considering the amount of time since the introduction of these behringer mixers, there are likely new versions coming. I personally think that is the reason for the recent price reductions in the states (sadly not in the EU yet). My advice is to wait a bit
No complete owners manual available??? Count me out. As a volunteer who doesn’t get a lot of board time I DEPEND on the owners manual. I can “take the owners manual home “ and study it, not the console. For that reason alone I would avoid it. It also says a great deal about what the manufacturer thinks about their users if they don’t bother with a complete manual. As a techie I sped a great deal of time helping non-techies with poorly documented products. I don’t need to knowingly add more.
To be fair you can learn it fine from RUclips, it is just harder to look up specifics that way. The original series of videos behringer made for it were decent as they were short so easy to find the one you need
@@stephenevans2518 True. However as someone who works in the tech industry, I resent companies that think so little of their customers they leave it to others to provide the necessary product guidance. It is a systemic problem in tech in general. How many products could you use by relying solely on vendor supplied training??? Very few. It should be all!!
@@stephenstange4194 You're not wrong! Although I think the official videos Behringer released when the Wing came out were pretty good actually, they covered all you would need to get setup and mixing, and the videos are all sub 10 min, so you don't have to trawl through a hour long video to find the one bit of detail you need
defensive much, behringer gives you a ton for the price which is why everyone bought the x32 but the quality has never been there. that being said for the average listener they wont hear it and even more so the average pastor on a tight budget wont hear it as well and will be pleased to hear about getting extras. not a fan but not going to fault anyone for getting it. just dont take a review personal since its just an opinion and these are first world problems we are talking about
I think Lee made fair points overall. I respect his opinion. I wouldn’t go with Wing
My church has the Wing now for almost 2 years and we were super happy with the mixer until the screen started “ghosting” itself….meaning that the counsel would randomly start selecting anything on the touchscreen without anyone touching it. Folks be aware of this when you buy this mixer. If I had to do it again I would have bought the Midas M32. Although touchscreen features are nice it can come with a world of problems!! My 2 cents…
Dude having the same problem. Gonna get rid of it, not gonna lie. It’s frozen on me and the ghost tries to turn the console off!
Sorry Jake, I still gotta side with Lee. Small to medium sized churches need easy to operate equipment. The volunteers need to know how to do more than adjust fader levels. If/when something goes wrong the leader can’t be the only one who knows how to patch and setup the board. That will cause a train wreck, which is the opposite of “eliminating distractions”. I love your technology incorporated worship advice, and thank you guys do a wonderful job, but I would be carful advising small budget churches to buy something that may backfire on them. It would be wonderful if volunteers would take the time that we do to learn the gear, but that’s just not realistic. And remember, a day will come when the leader won’t be there and it’s all in the hands of someone else 😬.
Have you ever used a WING?
@@Churchfront no... I would love to but if it’s as difficult to learn as people say, then I’ll pass. If more boards start to come out with the similar layout, then yes I will take the time to learn a new interface. I can’t want to see your tutorial video. I really do hope to see that it’s much easier than it has been portrayed because for its price... it does seem to be the front runner!
I hate to say this, but you’re wrong. I lead worship at a small to mid sized church in the Austin TX area. We have a small worship/production team, but by no means does that mean we can’t utilize gear like this to its fullest potential. We have volunteers that have a true heart for God and are constantly growing in their craft. Small to medium sized churches do not need easy to use equipment. They need people who are willing and dedicated to serve and grow. And most churches have this.
@@ViciousButter that’s great that you have volunteers with the right hearts and mindset. You are correct, with that kind of help then yes, get the best equipment possible for the best worship experience!! We’re still working on getting them to understand the mixing basics to dip out feedback. There is still confusion with simple mute groups. With volunteer turnover, we need a very simple console that gets the job done. I pray that one day we can get there!
We use the X32 series and have zero issues with our 13 year old sound tech being able to operate the system or use the two mute groups. We have mixes for FOH, recording, and 3 monitor mixes, which are controlled by the people utilizing them. There is one mute group configured to kill everything in case of uncontrolled feedback. That can be utilized from the desk, the music minister’s iPad, or the pianist’s tablet.
I failed miserably when trying to use one of these at a wedding. Even the staff sound guy couldn't figure out the routing. I think all of the features are awesome they just seem hard to use. I had just watched the MXU video the other day and I wondered how the guys from Churchfront felt about MXU dissing on a board you seemed to really like. Now I know. Nice job guys!!!
Interesting. I just got a Wing yesterday and I was able to figure out the routing without even needing to look it up. And I’m not an experienced sound guy. I think ease of use varies from person to person.
@@ViciousButter I might of failed to mention that the church sound guy had the input cables plugged into the aux output which made it tough to figure out. 😀
I appreciated his MxU video as he spoke the truth. It may meet the needs of some but it has many flaws.
I'm on my 3rd Wing! As soon as it gets back from being repaired.....again, it's being sold to the highest bidder.
I remember watching that video and thinking, "Don't say that to Jake. He'll fight you!"
It's also very clear Lee definitely wants to fight Luke Hendrickson.
At this price point, there is absolutely no excuse to get anything else. With the difficulty and it's flaws, it's still incredible. You would be better in the long run in every aspect for using it.
I suspect his dissing of the UI, is literally not what he expected a console to work like .. yes Wing has a curve .. but .. feel its super powerful and easy to use once I got used to it .. adore the stereo channel concept and the whole routing anything to anything
The Yamaha TF1 is not bad for the price and it’s user friendly! I’ve used it in so many situations. Can’t go anywhere without it. Great console for the price! Only $2,000.
This is it! If you want simple for volunteers the TF is the way to go all day long, simple operation, pretty low workload, well made. The Wing is powerful and a great choice for a competent sound engineer. When that is all taken into consideration the decision for wing is a no brainier. It will compete with mid priced consoles subject to fulfilling your input and output quota. Closest thing to DAW control level in a console short of things like S6L and the interface is bang up to date. Compare that to one of the biggest high end manufacturers who’s interface looks like a DOS system.
Imagine mxu doing a reaction video about this😳
He's channel would go down
It happened man
@@Festival2018 omggggg its happening
So, I notice you guys never speak on Behringer’s horrible support. Due to my personal experience, and that of SO MANY OTHERS, I think purchasing anything from a Music Tribe company is a terrible idea.
That’s because I’ve never needed their support which I know is not the case for everyone.
That’s fair, I suppose. You can’t report on something you’ve haven’t had to deal with. I suppose I have been burnt and just don’t want anyone else to have to deal with what I had to deal with.
Honestly, the target audience of this console has been totally lost by churchfront.
The argument that the wing is the best board under 10k is hard to measure becuase what is your measurement? Is it the processing power of the board? Is it the ease of use? What is your measure?
The truth of this board is at the 3k range, churchs buy this board have volunteer audio guys or worship leaders who, for the most part, don't know sound very well. Lee's point that this board is hard to use hits the nail on the head of why a church should not buy this board without knowing the difficulties of it. The Wing is not a bad board but hard to use and set up. Can you get great sound out of it? Absolutely, just like an x32 can make great sound. It comes down more to the engineer than the board. Sure this board has some added features for its range but at the cost of complexity.
For example, my volunteer who knows nothing of sound doesn't know what and ssl eq is..... They don't even know what and Eq is...
I recommend the Sq because it's easy to use and set up. I I helped a small church get an Sq and in the matter of an hour they knew their way around the board. They needed something they could learn becuase I am not available to them on Sundays. The wing would have been a nightmare to install for them. I still get thank yous from them for that console.
As someone who has used both the wing and uses an sq-32 on a weekly basis, I would agree that the wing is less good for people who have no audio engineering background. But people who don't know what an eq is for should probably be trying to find some experienced help when doing routing and general board setup no matter what console you use.
I like both the Sq and the wing, but as I get better as an engineer, the wing just has more features and more options than the SQ does, and once you understand it's work flow, it is a much more powerful console than the SQ, but for similar money.
This is actually one of the reasons I like the Wing - the channel presets are very well implemented, and with a finite list of musicians you can just save a preset for everyone. Then whoever is on sound just needs to plug the mics/guitars/etc in, load the presets for the person to the right channels and then it becomes just about faders and mutes! They don't need to know that there's a healthy amount of parametric EQ, a LA2a, dynamic eq etc going on
When I saw the MxU video I knew this was coming. Thanks guys!
While I understand the difficulty some would have because the workflow isn't industry standard, but it honestly makes more sense to me, so it was easy to learn.
I don't know why the Wing vs SQ vs whatever gets so heated! I think that both Lee and Jake have reasonable and valid points of view, which will be more or less relevant depending on your specific situation. At the end of the day, if you are choosing a mixer, I honestly think it's worth learning the basic operation and setup of all the main options you might consider, if for no other reason to understand whether it does what you want, and whether it's the right fit for your specific situation. I wish everyone wasn't so biased towards one option or the other - the Wing, SQ, QU, Avantis, even the X32 all have a place IMO depending on what your needs are!
I actually love working with the WING, it takes some getting used to, but it works really great and if you already have X32 Stageboxes, its definitely the best console to go to, because if you would switch to another console, you would have to buy all those stageboxes again as well.
Behringer basically ripped Allen & Heath DLive/Avantis capabilities and put a Behringer price tag on it haha. Nothing revolutionary. I do applaud and appreciate trying to reach more budget friendly audiences. I know for me and my church, we do a lot of changing the set up, so we dig in to the routing a lot and many other changes. Both side on this video are very valid! Its really a pick-your-battles decision, in my opinion
I had the WING for about a month. I run the touch screen test as recommended by Behringer for 12+ hours and it passed, It is supposed to be not defective if it passed the test . However, it developed the dreaded ghosting issue. Luckily, it was not installed yet and I was just barely inside the return window so I returned it. Spent lots of hours learning how to navigate use it and liked the feature. But I am not sure if it is a reliable mixer. The touch screen issue is known for more than a year and still not fixed. I assume they ran the test at manufacturing and if they are not catching the defective units, then who knows if the fixed units or units without defect so far would develop it later.
I can see it being frustrating for someone who is "experienced" in the field and then feeling like you are being sent back to Newbie land because of how different it is. An embarrassing situation to be in. For our church is was important to have a board that was as close to the analogue board as possible for an easier transition. Sounds like all the Wing needs is to have someone set it up for you as you need it and then take it from there (at least initially) I like the Pro Tools and Ableton example, nothing like hopping into a different DAW and trying to do something relatively simple and struggling because it is "different"
I agree with the MxU dude. Especially for churches where you don't have a lot of volunteers.
Honestly love that you guys have an opposing opinion to MXU. I think that stirs up good conversations and food for thought.
Also watched the 2nd video on this, love that you guys donate it to another church!
Lol behringer fan boys here
I'm the tech director at my church and we just got a wing in February. It is a little quirky (and I've experienced an issue where the board will freeze and I have to power cycle it to fix it) but over all I love this board!
I agree I hope more people adopt it!
Watching this felt really gross. There are much less off-putting ways of helping people realize that there is more than one opinion about a console.
Can you elaborate on this. I tried to be clear up front that I like and respect Lee and mxu and wanted this to be a light hearted debate. I even told Lee ahead of time I’d make this video and he thought it was a fun idea. But it seems somehow it didn’t come across that way. Was there something specific I said that felt gross?
Lee uses a LOT of consoles regularly. I'd say he would have a pretty good insight when it comes to comparing one to another. I know for me personally I didn't enjoy using the wing very much, even though the plugins and processing sounded good.
I used many different digital consoles, and I consider the Wing one of the easier to use.
I love the Wing. I had installed in a church and it is awesome. I like it better than the A&H! The one thing that I would love in the wing is a dynamic EQ.
I look forward to Churchfont releasing its WIng tutorials.
Speaking as a singer, Auto Tune is cheating - taking a sows ear to make a silk purse. Why not just get a good singer?
Can anyone point me to where the WING cost $3,000? Everywhere I see it is $5,000 or more.
There is a learning curve to the Wing. But once you get the patching figured out, this board is a monster. It has more plugins than the Midas Pro series. It has a ton of flexibility and it sounds really good. The ability to record 32 tracks from the pre-amps and with a single touch, bring those tracks right into the same channels to do a virtual sound check. And if you volunteer at your church, you should know how to work on the board before working with it. There is lots of videos on this desk to learn from.
Looks like they raised their prices. Now wanting $4200.00 range. Why was there a $1200.00 price increase? Are they still having issues with logistics via shipping containers over seas?
At around 11 minutes you say that all you want your volunteers to do is press mute buttons and push faders/ dca’s.
The great thing with a digital consoles is that each user can have their own channel layout and setup. We should be training volunteers to use eq and understand it. Setting a console or show file up before a Sunday does not mean it is done. When you sound check and practise adjusting eq and compression/ fx is important.
Yes they should know how to do basic channel processing. I’m talking more about setting up your stage inputs and routing before rehearsal. That can easily be done ahead of time by a worship leader or even a a volunteer sound tech.
That's not quite what he said to be fair, there's a difference between "all I want them to do is press DCAs and faders" and "all they NEED to know how to do is how to push faders and DCAs" which implies that they can do more if they want to (and TBH no one seems to dislike the features once you start mixing, the point is you don't need the whole team to set the thing up from scratch)
There are lots of cases for a bigger console than an Avantis - it’ isn’t a waste if you need more channel count or more IO options. Seems like a really small point of view.
3 grand Allen&Heath (or Midas or whatever) vs. 3 grand Behringer? Always hard to make a decision between 2 diff. reputation brands at the same price... choose a Ford with full extras or a 'naked' Mercedes? Everyone's own decision...
It all comes down to what you are used to. In the end, it's the person using it that will determine the sound that people hear. The Wing is far more than we would ever need, so the X32 Rack and SD16 stage box works fine for us in our small church in Poland.
This to me seems like a classic case of a Professional audio engineer vs church engineers.
I think you got a good point..I was a church sound engineer...then became almost a professional lol..🙈..but still learning more...
@YOOHAN KO; I AGREE, his post reflects my thoughts EXACTLY! Today I set up an X32 for a friend's church for the first time and of COURSE, it was different. I'd been mixing on large format analogs since the 80s! I'm waiting to take delivery of my own Wing this week and EXPECT a learning curve. It's LIFE! Plus at this price point, many churches, bands, and small sound shops will likely purchase a Wing as their entry into the digital console world. ANY digital mixing solution will be a challenge to their analog paradigm. The added application of being able to use the same console as a DAW is a plus in my "opinionation"! LOL. Thanks CHURCHFRONT! YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME.
I saw that MxU video and I agree it takes longer than expected to get used to the flow. Particularly the routing is very unintuitive. But like he also said, mixing is fantastic. It’s just the setup hurts your brain!
I would hands down recommend the Yamaha TF series, specifically the TF5 to churches over the Wing. If you don't want to use stage boxes you get all the I/O right on the back. If you want stage boxes, you can add Dante and open a whole new world of mixing capabilities. The learning curve is much smaller, it supports multi-touch the Wing doesn't, and my favorite feature is you get 32 faders and a Master fader right at your fingertips all at once, vs jumping through a bunch of layers. Be smart. They're hard to get because they're so popular but definitely worth the wait.
My church got the wing and we had the ghost touching issues. Sent it back to sweetwater and they put in a new screen and it's been perfect since. Definitely a bit of a learning curve with the wing but outstanding performance for the price.
great reason to buy from sweetwater. behringer doesn't provide support because sweetwater does and does it better.
Voice lessons/practice vs live autotune.
Which one makes the singer better?
Voice lessons/practice makes all singers better. Live auto tune makes great singers better. Live auto tune does not make bad singers better.
Great video, been following for a while. Lighting question. I like the light that your lightsabers on the wall put out, but is there a reason they're center screen? Just really harsh light. Just wondering...
Wow I’m sold… wing over the SQ5, wow…
9:47-10:04 I think anyone who is a sound engineer should know how to set up their primary board from scratch if needed.
Except right now there is a supply chain disaster. It's near impossible to buy anything from Behringer or Midas right now.
The tarriff war and then the virus shut production down completely.
We have been waiting on a X32 from Guitar Center since October. If its not physically in stock, good luck.
Get that money back. Go with another brand.
We've bought them recently thru sweetwater. They get a lot of them.
We bought one a few months ago from Sweetwater and got it in a couple weeks.
Every brand has a supply chain disaster. Brand who sell more will have that earlier than others. At the moment almost all brands are redesigning their products this is not only caused by the tariff war or covid. One of the main reasons is the total destruction of the chip factory AKM by fire.
honestly for the first digital console we had, we are having a great experience with the WING. it is true that its tough at first, but when it is setup, is a great board
Sorry I agree 100% with MxU. A mixing console for live music is just like an instrument. There needs to be an industry-standard. First time I used one I had to Google how to turn on phantom power. Behringer can get creative with their studio equipment or their DAWs. It would be like having a house grand piano that was strung backwards. I would never recommend one of these for any house system. Not to mention the features are extreme overkill for live sound reinforcement. The first digital mixture that I used was a Yamaha 01v. The learning curve was about 30 minutes. The workflow was well laid out and I ended up buying and using one for 5 years.
I am tempted to get the Wing for recording in my project studio. Stop using so many plug-ins and just mix inside the Wing. In an update you can even sum your mix inside it. Back in the day I had a Behringer DDX3216 and used it with Cubase. Using thr effects from the digital mixer provided a much more enjoyable experience than using a mouse and plug ins from so many menus. This console has SSL and 1176 emulations already built in. So simple to just stay on the digital mixer. The one thing I wish it had was pan knobs for each channel.
In Europe‘s largest online-retailer for musical instruments the Wing is already in the top 5 sales for digital consoles together with the SQ5 and the x32. So I think you are absolutely right that this console is going to be more popular than the x32.
The Wing retails for AU$6700 in Australia and our exchange rate is 0.67 in the usd. So I don't know whats up with that.
This video comes down to a professional audio engineer (with a large-scale touring experience) vs. a worship leader doing tech. Professional audio guys are always going to have issues when they’re on smaller desks. Because they’re not as capable or flexible, but that’s what you get at that price range. But I haven’t been on a small desk to this day with a solid workflow compared to a more high-end desk. Worship leaders seem to be more OK with it. Professionals don’t want to put up with it! But at the end of the day, Lee’s opinion goes further because he is way more professional experience, Then the church front team.
If Lee is running your console, then sure his opinion will have a lot more weight. Otherwise I don't see why people who are talking from a perspective the vast majority of churches will never get anywhere close to have so much weight.
Also how many times do you set up or change the configuration of a console in a small or mid size church: once! So once you get it configured that's it. Now his chief complaint is done. I have seen very few people complain about more than the setup - which is, again, totally irrelevant to the vast majority of churches out there.
Freaking audio - this is one level below the argument that gold plated cables sound better :p
Difficult to get use to... In this price range maybye true, but if you look at a yamaha ql/cl console.... Have fun guy ;)
Shouldn't you provide a link to the MxU video?
Not hard to find on RUclips. Plus we watch the entire video here.
Good video.. thanks I'll keep this console in mind for the future when our church grows and we are able to upgrade. Keep up the good work..
They say if you dont want something leave it . JUST LEAVE BEHRINGER WING ALONE .
Either the Wing or SQ are fine consoles so looking at the rest of the ecosystem may inform what is best in any particular installation. Stage boxes, local preamps, expandability such as dante card/plugins, personal mixers for stage and future upgrade path are all factors to consider. If you already have some of the equipment like personal mixers or stage boxes it would be a tough to change from a stewardship perspective. Get video.
When you are as obsessed with leveraging tech to do church, sometimes I think you forget that there are people who are not on your level of obsession. To me, the wing is really for the hyper-obsessed sound tech. I’m stoked that y’all have minds that can even use all those tools, but I don’t find it worth the deep dive and mind bending time spent to learn how to do something that I already know how to do. That said, we already have our console and are no longer in the market for a new one.
You can kinda tell these guys don’t have experience with old school 2 fader analog consoles . The wing’s signal flow is just like patching in and out of an ssl. From mic panel to whatever channel on the board you want. The sources are just rows on a patch bay.
Congrats on winning yourself the Wing from the man Lee himself😂
It seems things need to be broken down a little more, you mentioned a church's worship director or tech director should be able to do the job of setting up the WING, that's a big assumption. Most churches don't have those positions, so the recommendation for the WING at a church might be size or personnel-dependent. If you have a tech person, who can dedicate some time to figure it out, it's totally worth it. If you are a church where there is no tech guy, and volunteers do the sound, it might be rough. We've used the X32 for a long time, but going to a WING is worrisome for that reason.
Sorry Jake, I side more with Lee on this one, and I have taken a lot more into consideration than just what was mentioned by either you or Lee.
I have mixed on specified, sold, installed, and trained churches on many consoles including the wing. I also come from a combination of church and tour/live production engineering and set up.
The wing isn’t a bad console in and of itself, but the work flow is extremely clunky. The idea of physical inputs being separate from processing channels is something that’s on pretty much every console but the patching system of the wing is clunky. Set up is time consuming. And as someone whose installed systems in many churches a full knowledges of how to work and set up a console is important. Things change over time, things go wrong, they need to know how to get things back up and going or improve their set up.
The wing may be feature packed, but some of its “selling points” I’m not a fan of personally. Such as behringer/midas’s reliance on the AES50 protocol and its limitations. It’s been in use since the first Midas digital consoles and was always complicated and limiting especially when getting into higher channel counts. The other thing is it’s still built on a fixed DSP when the bulk of the industry has moved to FPGA’s which gives a lot of flexibility and expand ability down the road.
Everyone has their leanings for preferences and work flow, comfort ability. Mine is DiGiCo. Some love Yamaha, not my preference, to each their own!!
But outside of preference, my biggest point when recommending anything for churches is reliability, longevity, and support. Unfortunately behringer has really fallen behind in this. Impossible to get parts, gear and accessory back orders going back over a year on certain pieces now. They just screwed their whole dealer network over and along with them their end users who had already paid for and were waiting on product thru dealers who had been dropped. As Lee stated there’s more info on Reddit than on the terrible music tribe website! And if you need support good luck, you’ll never speak to anyone on the phone much less in a time sensitive show/service environment, you have to submit an e-mail support ticket... and it’s often weeks before a reply. On those merits, I just can’t recommend anything behringer/Midas/music tribe.
Thanks for the insight. Great points here
We worked with a company that mentioned many of the same concerns when I expressed interest in upgrading to the wing. We were coming from analog so there was no attachment to any ecosystem in particular. We wanted to hear one way or the other which system to adopt or avoid. Again, many people like Behringer products and have good luck with them, especially for the price and features; but at the end of the day, they’re tools that can either be used artfully, or mishandled.
I’m only ten mins in and as far as GUI and patching and setup, that can be done by an integrator. Mixing is fine but the hard stuff should be done by a pro.
I just picked up the new software version of the Wing and the autotune is chromatic now.
wow, hard to believe this was $3k when it came out?!
This is not helpful. Basically a churchfrount fan boy video. It’s the oldest disease…. ‘My gear is the best piece of gear’ … Not a creative content and certainly not educational.
Is it still the best value at $4200?
@Churchfront, have you tried touch-clicking the ‘keyboard’ on the pitch corrector? This allows you to change it from purely chromatic to fit more into a preferred key.
Good on you Jake. Nice video. Thanks for your work.
How come that NOBODY has commented on the hair hanging from Jake's beard :D
"If you have more money than that ($10,000) then you're just wasting money on more than you actually need.... nek minute... waves sound grid....
Just get a decent analogue desk with some outboard compressors and EQ. Easy to use. Problem solved.
If you do a video on the Wing, please "boring" topics like how to save, recall and manage small groups of settings. Like saving a channel strip dialed in for a particular singer, and being able to find and then restore those settings later. Perhaps by a different volunteer.
This is practical stuff that NO ONE seems to talk about - lots of tutorials are wrapped up in tech for the sake of the tech and we just want to be able to mix each Sunday and control the chaos as different volunteers from week to week. Practical stuff. Got completely blindsided with this blasted Soundcraft SI Impact (that someone else pushed for) because it NEVER dawned on me that you wouldn't be able to partial save/restore just parts of the console config. Seriously?!? One of the biggest things we were looking forward to we can't do with this thing. And if it can be done, it must be the most closely guarded secret ever.
Here ya go: ruclips.net/video/zgbBuEwgBV8/видео.html
Are we seriously fighting and arguing over pitch correction... in a mixer? A mixer's last purpose is to correct the pitch of singers. What kind of singer needs pitch correction anyway? If you don't manage to sound well without a DSP, then can you call yourself a 'singer'? Many sound and mixing engineers treat songs as if they're theirs in the vocal department, and they try to reach a unachievable perfection. But are the songs theirs, or the singers'? Isn't it the singer's job to make sure the pitch is perfect? I mean 'perfect' and good. What kind of singer would request a sound engineer to put pitch correction on their channel? It's ridiculous! They pitch-corrected Celine Dion, they do it on Adele, they even did it on Aretha f**king Franklin and other good singers! What the hell? These engineers do not understand that pitch is sacred to a (good) singer, and should stay unaltered. If a singer is off-key all the time, then they should get another job, not shout over at a sound guy. Singing on pitch is not the job of a sound engineer!... unless the 'singer' is a rapper, of course. Oops!
And as to the workflow of the Wing... don't worry, they said the same stuff about FL Studio when it came out: 'It's a toy.", 'Very unprofessional!', 'hard to learn' etc., and look where FL got. I mean, I don't know how many hits were produced on FL and it doesn't have the best and most neutral sound out there, but it definitely got a huge user base. The Wing will as well. The only unprofessional thing I can notice about the Wing is a total lack of documentation. (And yes, that can be a huge bummer and burden added to the learning curve!) That's where Allen & Heath compensates with their SQ (and any other) series. I also heard that Allen & Heath's SQ produces a way better sound... despite having lower channel counts and a clunky interface. Also, I don't like the way they squeeze the spec sheet at the end of the quick start guides. And it's not even a complete sheet of technical information - for instance, I would've liked knowing if that touchscreen supports multi-touch or not. I also don't like the fact that they skipped a Windows desktop control version for it. OK, I get it, the mixer is a desktop itself, so that would seem redundant, but it could be very useful actually. I didn't use the Wing yet, and there seem to be many things to improve about it, and many cons to it, but Behringer makes it in a way that either poisons your mind or hypnotizes you to buy it. So I would definitely get one despite all these cons! I like unique approaches.
Thank you, Churchfront, for your valuable opinions!
All I have to say is… Soundcraft Impact SI is best.😂 With legit Lexicon, DBX, BSS, Studer effects built in. Better format and setup, ‘In my opinion’. Touch screen. And a couple hundred dollars less than the WING. Just my opinion.
For a digital console the SI impact sure doesn't have much flexibility in saving settings. Want to just change or restore a channel strip with customizations for a singer? Nope! All settings console-wide or none. What kind of crap is that?
Barely better than taking a picture of an analog console with a phone and resetting the settings :p
I hope we are missing something and you will share some valuable insight that no one else has been able to share, because I would love to chuck this thing out the window.
It's an outdated console... It's not even considered as an option anywhere.
The M32 lover forgot the topic "in ear monitoring" and Behringer stuff for this, as the transition from M32/X32 to a newer one.
Great video! Random gear question... what are the LED tube lights that you use behind you guys in this podcasting setting?
To me they looked like Nanlite PavoTubes or Good TL60s.
Uh, people can't adjust to new equipment, and then they make a video about it.......
Could not agree more with you guys.. love my wing!
Seems the common theme in the comments is that people who own a wing love it and people who don’t own a wing have strong negative feelings against it. Lol. Hmmmm
I have never been a Beringer fan