I just dont like the Look in most cases. Add to that, that they are extremely unforgiving with mistakes (normal paint i wipe off with a clean, damp brush or easily fix it with another layer), and I just dont find me using speedpaint a lot other than as washes.
I think both could benefit from a bit more contrast. The base grey you started with seemed quite bright, which would be good for a mid-tone on a grey scale. If you don't feel like having an even darker primer (either black or a much darker grey - or some other dark colour, to provide a bit of colour variation) and drybrushing up from there, another option is to give the whole miniature a wash with something like Army Painter Dark Tone after priming it with the grey you used, then drybush again with the white. That'll accentuate the shadows of the speedpaint a bit more, giving more contrast and making the details and colours pop even more. And it's a very cool bard miniature your player put together there! 😁
From my experience, starting with a darker tone that he did does not work for skin tones (and other more translucent contrast paints) and will lead to results like he showed at 1:43 where it looks like the woman has a beard shadow (and the results can get way way worse).
@@Kijubei I agree with @GentleGiantDK. The way you avoid what you're saying is to go heaver with the grey drybush (and white second drybrush) on the areas that you want to be consistently bright. But leave the areas in shadow with more black and gray. You have to be intentional and precise about where you drybrush as that's laying down the dark and brighter undertones.
Always two thin coats. Vallejos XPress Colors and especially the very misunderstood Scale75 Instant Colors are so so great for that. Or Golden Highflow Colors mixed 1:1 with XPress Colors Medium. Golden Colore are just sooooooo full of high quality pigments :)
Slapchopping FDM printed models will be flawed from the start given the layer lines vs resin printed models. The drybrushing will accentuate the layers lines. And not sure if you meant to say blue and purple are complimentary in the colour theory term. They are analagous to each other, not complimentary.
For mistakes have some small cotton tips handy and correct straight away, I use what looks like a cocktail stick with a pointed wrap of cotton, very precise, just dampen and dab the paint away…..available in large packs cheaply on eBay. I see very few painters use them or recommend them in videos, they are an essential tool when using these kind of paints.
Enjoyed the video, came across you via the power of "related videos" and I hope you don't take my comment for anything other then a helpfull "things I've learned because you asked.." comment but one step which I will swear on that I didn't see you do, is prime your model in a darker colour. Blacks, Purples or even Reds as your base and then prime from a 45degree or sharper angle downwards with a light NOT WHITE colour, a grey etc... your stuff is really bright as a base. This way the undersides and recesses that "the sun" wouldn't see are still naturally dark. Then you add your grey drybrush all over and then do a white drybrush to pick out the edges that would catch the light so when youre looking down at it on the 45o angle, downward strokes only, doing everything just takes away the edges you want to stay bright. Speedpaints/Contrasts I've found works so much better when you already have your shading done, so the reason you're getting quite bright, models without much detail or shading is because your missing the built in shadows to the undersides of models, the darker recesses etc.. Obviously there are several methods and having painted a couple of hundred minis in a few different styles I've found the following approach to suit me. Im not saying it's best, nor am I saying the others are wrong etc.. just what Ive found as a great balance between time and final quality. Maybe consider giving it a try next time and going "that was great" or "that guy was a moron im not doing that". But I Prime Black/Green then I Air Brush top down Grey, Then Dry brush lighter grey then white for Characters/heroes - Skip the grey step for swarms/trash mobs etc.. Then move onto contrasts. The only exception being if you want really pale skin tones, then you want to drybrush the fleshy bits really heavily with a lighter colour. Eitherway, thanks for the video was fun watching what you've learnt and how you've done it. I love painting with contrasts and doing slapchop esque jobs as it's become known. They help me be better then I was with the time I have available to me.
I know this isn't quite slapchop, but my approach has evolved to essentially slapchop over regular acrylic basecoats. That is - base coat normally - drybrush entire mini white (looks awful but trust the process lol) - apply speedpaints thinned 50/50 with medium. It's not as fast, but it's not exactly slow either as it does all highlighting in one go, and one benefit is that you can correct easily with the original base colour.
Ooh that'd a really interesting approach 🤔 would make for some really rich colors and better contrast, plus as you say cleanup is easier. Might have a play with this idea!
I think that both of these models were kind of suited for speed/contrast paints. The ogre has really nice detailed skin and the bards clothing was broken up enough to take the details well. How would you have handled less detailed, more flat areas of a model with this technique? Or maybe just skipped this and used layering instead?
I mean it depends! Something like a space marine for example still takes to Speed paints pretty well! - Something larger like a Dreadnaught, or anything with truly flat panels, though would definitely benefit from just being painted with layering. But most 'organic' minis will take to speedpaint well (though that does still depend on the sculpt of course)
Depends on whose method your going with, there's so many iterations on Slap Chop as a method now - but im pretty sure that the 'original' was just contrast/speed paint over a black prime and white drybrush (But I could be wrong!😆).
What are your thoughts or experiences with Slap-Chop or Speedpaints in general?
I just dont like the Look in most cases. Add to that, that they are extremely unforgiving with mistakes (normal paint i wipe off with a clean, damp brush or easily fix it with another layer), and I just dont find me using speedpaint a lot other than as washes.
I think both could benefit from a bit more contrast. The base grey you started with seemed quite bright, which would be good for a mid-tone on a grey scale. If you don't feel like having an even darker primer (either black or a much darker grey - or some other dark colour, to provide a bit of colour variation) and drybrushing up from there, another option is to give the whole miniature a wash with something like Army Painter Dark Tone after priming it with the grey you used, then drybush again with the white.
That'll accentuate the shadows of the speedpaint a bit more, giving more contrast and making the details and colours pop even more.
And it's a very cool bard miniature your player put together there! 😁
From my experience, starting with a darker tone that he did does not work for skin tones (and other more translucent contrast paints) and will lead to results like he showed at 1:43 where it looks like the woman has a beard shadow (and the results can get way way worse).
@@Kijubei I agree with @GentleGiantDK. The way you avoid what you're saying is to go heaver with the grey drybush (and white second drybrush) on the areas that you want to be consistently bright. But leave the areas in shadow with more black and gray. You have to be intentional and precise about where you drybrush as that's laying down the dark and brighter undertones.
I also like to brush pallid bone speed paint over models as a wash. To add some griminess.
👀 that's a great use, especially when you want something a little more potent that a regular wash
I feel like a bit of very thinned magenta Speed Paint around the elbows and veins would make that Ogre even better!
Easier on the dry brushing… add a little water so it’s doesn’t get chalky …. And in all things, two thin coata
Always two thin coats. Vallejos XPress Colors and especially the very misunderstood Scale75 Instant Colors are so so great for that. Or Golden Highflow Colors mixed 1:1 with XPress Colors Medium. Golden Colore are just sooooooo full of high quality pigments :)
Slapchopping FDM printed models will be flawed from the start given the layer lines vs resin printed models. The drybrushing will accentuate the layers lines.
And not sure if you meant to say blue and purple are complimentary in the colour theory term. They are analagous to each other, not complimentary.
You did a great job! I came to similar conclusions with the speed paints. Subscribed.
If u do a zenithal highlight the colors will be brighter
For mistakes have some small cotton tips handy and correct straight away, I use what looks like a cocktail stick with a pointed wrap of cotton, very precise, just dampen and dab the paint away…..available in large packs cheaply on eBay. I see very few painters use them or recommend them in videos, they are an essential tool when using these kind of paints.
Great tip! Might include this in my process moving forward! Can't hurt to have them handy for fixing mistakes on the fly.
Underrated channel! Loved the video. I'm new to painting and this was really helpful.
honestly i love your technical approach in this topic!
I'm going to have to try the drybrush over the finished speed paint. Thanks for the tip!
Enjoyed the video, came across you via the power of "related videos" and I hope you don't take my comment for anything other then a helpfull "things I've learned because you asked.." comment but one step which I will swear on that I didn't see you do, is prime your model in a darker colour. Blacks, Purples or even Reds as your base and then prime from a 45degree or sharper angle downwards with a light NOT WHITE colour, a grey etc... your stuff is really bright as a base. This way the undersides and recesses that "the sun" wouldn't see are still naturally dark. Then you add your grey drybrush all over and then do a white drybrush to pick out the edges that would catch the light so when youre looking down at it on the 45o angle, downward strokes only, doing everything just takes away the edges you want to stay bright.
Speedpaints/Contrasts I've found works so much better when you already have your shading done, so the reason you're getting quite bright, models without much detail or shading is because your missing the built in shadows to the undersides of models, the darker recesses etc..
Obviously there are several methods and having painted a couple of hundred minis in a few different styles I've found the following approach to suit me. Im not saying it's best, nor am I saying the others are wrong etc.. just what Ive found as a great balance between time and final quality. Maybe consider giving it a try next time and going "that was great" or "that guy was a moron im not doing that". But I Prime Black/Green then I Air Brush top down Grey, Then Dry brush lighter grey then white for Characters/heroes - Skip the grey step for swarms/trash mobs etc.. Then move onto contrasts. The only exception being if you want really pale skin tones, then you want to drybrush the fleshy bits really heavily with a lighter colour.
Eitherway, thanks for the video was fun watching what you've learnt and how you've done it.
I love painting with contrasts and doing slapchop esque jobs as it's become known. They help me be better then I was with the time I have available to me.
I know this isn't quite slapchop, but my approach has evolved to essentially slapchop over regular acrylic basecoats. That is - base coat normally - drybrush entire mini white (looks awful but trust the process lol) - apply speedpaints thinned 50/50 with medium. It's not as fast, but it's not exactly slow either as it does all highlighting in one go, and one benefit is that you can correct easily with the original base colour.
Ooh that'd a really interesting approach 🤔 would make for some really rich colors and better contrast, plus as you say cleanup is easier. Might have a play with this idea!
@@Painted4Combat You want to try to make sure the Speedpaints colour matches the base colour as closely as possible for an even finish.
Look at all those Lord of the Print models! Man has good taste.
What can I say, they make great dragons 😉
You intrigued me wth slapchop - you kept my attention with the Cookie Time Xmas bucket!
Very insightful, thanks!
I think that both of these models were kind of suited for speed/contrast paints. The ogre has really nice detailed skin and the bards clothing was broken up enough to take the details well.
How would you have handled less detailed, more flat areas of a model with this technique? Or maybe just skipped this and used layering instead?
I mean it depends! Something like a space marine for example still takes to Speed paints pretty well! - Something larger like a Dreadnaught, or anything with truly flat panels, though would definitely benefit from just being painted with layering.
But most 'organic' minis will take to speedpaint well (though that does still depend on the sculpt of course)
I would wash metallics
Isnt undercoats used in slap-chop?
Depends on whose method your going with, there's so many iterations on Slap Chop as a method now - but im pretty sure that the 'original' was just contrast/speed paint over a black prime and white drybrush (But I could be wrong!😆).
I don’t think this method works well at all on models like these that have visible layer lines. These need classic layering.
Yeah Slap Chop or any drybrushing method is really not meant for FDM miniatures.
Subbbbb
Paints are just tools.
Right for tool for the job.