Battery Talk: Building a Throne and Crown Battery Product Review
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Battery talk for those who are interested in off grid living and getting their own battery bank started.
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Lithium Iron Phosphate cells are very, very safe. They do NOT combust like many of the other Lithium chemistries do. Tesla (and most other EV vehicles) do NOT use Lithium Iron Phosphate because they are less energy dense than some of the other Lithium cells, and EV vehicles need every watthr they can get, while RV/boats/offgrid housing does not. Those other Lithium chemistries need a LOT of safety devices and protocols and software to look after them. No-one should build a DYI battery system with the non LFP chemistries for their mobile use, IMO (but many do). This is not the case with Lithium Iron Phosphate, which are SAFE but they do need a good BMS to look after over and under charging, and also to avoid charging below freezing. I'm a LFP convert, coming from Crown AGMs (I had 780 ah of Crown 260ah 6v batteries) but was VERY disappointed in their performance as they had lost significant capacity after only 1 year of full-time use in my RV and despite using the recommended charging profiles in my twin Bogart 31a controllers with a TM2030 managing them. Crown did not even bother to reply to my emails asking for advice/help regarding the poor performance of their batteries, so I gave up on them. Like you, I had listened to Bob, but have subsequently learned a lesson. My LFP cells, managed by an Electrodacus BMS is another ballgame entirely. It is a revelation to use LFP cells in an RV! I run the entire rig, with air-conditioning 24x7 if desired, and am full charged by around midday, by being able to accept 1500w of charge from my 1890w rooftop array on my 30 ft 5th wheel, even when the batteries are 95-99% full! My Crowns would start to reduce charge rates by 90% and it took literally hours to get from 95% to 100%. Lithium does not even care of it is not fully charged every day! It is truly a life-changing chemistry for a boondocking full-timer like myself.
I've built my own RV and ebike LiPO and Li-ion modules both with and without BMS. There are ample debate in the Lithium batteries community on safety profile, the virtue of chemistry types, BMS, and balance charging. And I'm still learning...Agreed that Pb will be supplanted in the very near future by Li or Si technology as their cost keeps dropping. However, Pb-acid batteries are quite cheap and abundant comparatively, and repurposing them for home or other uses isn't a terrible idea.
@@joebanks3698 agreed.
"It is truly a life-changing chemistry for a boondocking full-timer like myself."
LOLOLOL
You do realize that It's nothing that can't be accomplished cheaper with lea acid, WOW all that over 5% capacity.
Highly unlikely that they will replace lead acid any time in the near future as the only people really using them are those who like bragging rights about owning the latest greatest technology despite the outrageous costs involved and limited data on longevity,
As a retired electronics engineer, who owned an operated a marine electronics business for 20 years I've dealt with this mentality more than I cared for but hey they made me wealthy,
I mean you do realize that the cost of of LiFePO4 is between 500% and 700% more expensive than lead acid deep cycles,
You could more than double your bank size and go to 96 volt inverters and get equivalent of not better performance
It boggles the mind the shear number of RV's I see running 12 volt inverters from LiFePO4 banks when they should be running 96 volt inverters,
At 96 volts you are looking at much smaller wire gauges and much lower amperage draws.
For example a 3kw inverter will draw 250 amps from a 12 volt bank but at 96 volts it's only drawing 31 amps.
the problem is 96 volt true sign wave inverters are expensive, but you do save a bunch of money on wiring as you can now use 4 gauge wire instead of 4/0
The bottom line is a 96 volt lead acid system is far cheaper and performs better than a 12 volt LiFePO4 system.
Of course other than the outrageous costs involved there is nothing stopping you from running a 96 volt LiFePO4 system, but at that point I think the batteries inverters and chargers would be worth more than the RV,
And then there is the inconvenience and expense of having to replace about $7,000 worth of LiFePO4 batteries instead of $600 worth of lead acid batteries every 5 years
@@dannelson8556, it is very clear that despite your enthusiastic endorsement of lead acid over LFP, you have never actually built and lived with an LFP based system. I have. And an AGM system (with Crown 260ah 6v deep cycle batteries). Both systems worked. The LFP system works 1000% better. The primary reasons are many - MUCH faster to charge (at 100% of my panel output, with no internal resistive losses and heat at the battery gets over 90% full.). Second, the LFP battery doesn;t care at all whether it gets to 100% charge every day, or every week or every month - although because it charges so fast, it does actually achieve full capacity charge every day, 95% of the time, depending on my wife's induction cooktop, microwave and air-confitioner usage and cloud cover. Third, you are sadly behinh the times in terms of cost. My 7.8KW system (with, say 6.4KWh usable as I prefer to not deplete the cells to 0% even though that does negigable damage to them), cost me $1750 delivered, and are expected to last 30 years or more. Lead acid, and especially expensive AGM like Crown, are MANY TIMES more expensive than that, and the LFP is not even that much more on initial outlay when building a bank from prismatics as I have done. Fourthly, my battery base voltage is 24v, so I'll ignore your diatribe about 12v vs 96v. In any case, I don't want 96v in a mobile app as there is no mobile inverter that works with 96v and it offers me zero performance improvement over my 24v system in a small RV application like mine, and furthermore, the 96V is above the 60v human safe threshold, and no good installer would build such a high voltage system in an RV. I keep all DC voltages down to less than 40v. SO, please, don;t comment on things you have no clue about. SOme of us have built and lived with these systems for years, and understand the relative pros and cons of them. You have not.
I have not been receiving your new video post's. For almost 5 or 6 months...
Glad to see your still kicking it
You might try unsubscribing and then resubscribing and selecting the view all uploads. Thanks for tuning in!
What a treat to see Pippi again!
Such a pleasant diversion from all of the mayhem in the news.
When you increase AMPS you need more thicker gauge wires to carry that current. When load draws more current those thin wires are going to burn🙂
Like I mentioned in the video this is temporary as there is no load
Thank you for the explanation. I was not aware of that.
Pippi's decision to go with FLA over LiFePo batteries purely down to cost... Because this install is in a fixed dwelling weight (and space) isn't an issue here. A quick search shows that the CR430's were probably under $350 each (retail) and that will net her a 200-250(ish) amp hour (@48V) battery bank (or just about 3kw). Her total battery cost going to be under $2,800. To get the same battery bank with Battleborn's (yes I know there are cheaper batteries) you would be looking at something around $7,200. You could probably cut that in half if you ordered lifepo Cell's and BMS units straight from China - but that discussion is beyond the scope of this post.
No it’s not down to cost. If you watch the video it’s mostly down to safety and hardiness of a reliable, abusive-resistant, long-term proven, top-of-the-line battery.
Mike, right now EG4 (LiFePO4) 48v 100amp/hr server rack batteries run for $1424 X 2 = $2848, so about the same usable amp hrs for just $48 more. Crown are excellent batteries and LiFePO4 technology is very safe too, unlike other lithium battery technologies used in electric cars and electric bikes. The biggest advantage of LifePO4 batteries is they don't have to be topped off every day, those batteries don't care what state of charge they sit at, as long as they are not completely flat. So if you have a properly sized battery bank with reserve capacity, and you have a few cloudy days, you can keep using your battery till it gets down to about 10% SOC. This translate to minimizing, if not eliminating the need to run a generator. And if it gets to the point that you do need to run a generator, you don't have charge the battery 100% if you know the sun will be shinning the next day. You can just give it enough to get through the night. With lead acid batteries, that is a different story, if you let them sit too long at a partial SOC, you eventually will start shortening the life span of the battery bank. Yes, you can compensate with equalizing, but again, a lot more generator run time if you hit a cloudy streak. So less fuel and maintenance with LFP batteries.
Ultimately, to each their own, their are advantages and disadvantages to both technologies. She did pick an excellent brand, mine are going on seven years and are doing great, but then again, I don't abuse them. The good thing is, LFP battery prices have come down considerably, and for boondocking, especially in the winter months, when the son hours are short, they have a convenient and financial advantage for those applications.
What a nice summary of circuits physics!
Fantastic. Anxious to learn something. Trying to figure out what I need to buy and how to hook it together myself !!
Definitely check out my solar playlist. I built an entire system in my RV with all the steps and details included. Best of luck!
thanks for the infomation
Lead acid batteries can be explosive. It's vary rare and easily preventable. Ventilation and keeping the fluid levels up to keep the plates covered. Remember it is a form of electrolysis that can separate water from it's oxygen and hydrogen atoms. Vary potent explosive potential if allowed to accumulate in your battery housing or inside the battery itself.
Love the new dooo you are so beautiful. I need to tune in more often.
It's a good Idea to make sure you have ventilation (Hydrogen) and some containment in case they leak. (no acid on the floor)
Well said & done !...
In India these batteries are called Tubular Plate Lead Acid Battery.
You are so good at this, and you sure brighten up a day. The parallel/series/volt/amp battery wiring info was presented in a way I will finally remember it.
I noticed that Crown doesn't make a 12v deep cycle battery, at least not available on Amazon.
Good to see you again Pippi. Couple quick questions. For the liner are you using a rubberized non-conductive liner or just polyethylene. Also, are you going to put any kind of frame around that to avoid accidentally bumping into it with your car? With your power bank in the garage and your solar array outside is there going to be any issue with line resistance? I noticed that with your shorter hair, which looks very good on you, you appear to be able to move a lot faster, at least at the beginning of the video. Have a nice day. Looking forward to your next installment.
It’s a shower pan liner from Home Depot. There’s enough room I don’t think I’d ever bump into it. Yes there will likely be line résistance from the distance. Though I preferred that over mounting them on the roof.
Here come all the people that have to justify paying more for Lithium batteries. I don't know how solar ever worked for people before lithium batteries ;-)
It's largely people who believe in marketing rather than understanding the batteries and how they work. Then wanting to reinforce the decision to buy $$$ batteries.
LFP does have advantages, but few buyers actually understand what those are beyond "this YT influencer (who got them for free/reduced) and says they are awesome".
DIY coming together Miss Pippi 👌👍 looking awesome , wish I could work that fast lol ... love the projects you share 😍🤩😉😊🥳🤠😎
I wish I could work that fast too! Imagine all that could get done, lol.
@@PippiPeterson Aw Miss Pippi I think sometimes it just feels good to stand back and admire ones accomplishments these days after what the the entire blue ball floating in space has been through in the past 18 months or so , just love all you do n share with everyone such a dedicated n educated lady you are , your channel is amazing keep up the great work ethic ... an maybe show us that warp speed skill set again sometime soon lol 😅 , from my location of the central prairies of 🇨🇦 take care n be safe down in beautiful Texas Miss Pippi 😉😊😍😎
I like those people who actually work alone 🕶👍
And nice battery build, you can also make Powerwalls like gathering Old laptop batteries and rip them open and use the cells inside it called 18650's as you know it 3S 100P that's a 12v Battery Pack 😁.
Anyway keep up the awesome content mam ;)
Way too much work!
Very informative Pippi, ty..
Pb batteries give off hydrogen gas. I have personally witnessed two explosions.
And the outlet next to them is a good source of ignition !!
@@michaelbrown2443 Not everyone can afford lithium, lead acid is fine for a home system, that would be way to heave for an RV system.
They do require ventilation
Your wire gauge for the jumpers is a bit small. I know that setup is temporary. Remember that as voltage goes down amperage goes up! If you were setting them up for 48VDC then that wire would be closer to correct size. Avoid the fire hazard.
These are only for charging temporarily til the panels are connected.
A smart 3-stage 12v car charger is best for maintaining those lead-acid. Btw, did you have to pull a permit for the solar pergola? It's a requirement for any residential solar project where I am. :(
I love Pippi.
Always love watching your projects. Been watching you for years. I started right before you did the floor and penny/cd epoxy projects.
Thanks for tuning in for so long! ☺️
That is sooooooo NICE! Pippi you're a wealth of goodness all the way around. Thank you so much for these videos. Big Thumbs up 👍🏻 ~John
HOPE you are o,im praying for you, have a blessed life!
Good to know! Thanks!
Lol ha ha ha Pippi, The start of the video cracked me up , no idea why? You might want to take it easy on the coffee Today :) Intelligence and Gorgeousness all in one Pippi Very well done and Intelligently spoken by the way I meant to mention this when you cut your hair although I am a Big fan of longer hair you look amazing and Loving the new hair cut/ style on you. I remember when you first did a video on Batteries and you have both Gained knowledge and understanding of them and construction designs for the storage cabinetries. Good job Love it. Enjoy your weekend - Laterz Leland
Thanks Leland
I have the other top brand still strong 5 years running! Besides adding water keep the connectors clean 😉
Yep nothing wrong with lead acid batteries for solar, especially in a home environment where weight is not an issue.
Haven’t seen you in a few years, anyway consider an automatic battery charging system. Safer for your eyes and eliminates spills.
Hi Pippi. Thanks for the video. Are you endorsed or sponsored by crown batteries? I just heard of them yesterday as i am looking for good marine batteries and am still in the research phase.
Flooded deep-cycle batteries are a good option when you’re working with a budget and weight isn’t an issue. Please upgrade the connective wiring, especially if you plan on pulling any significant loads from that bank.
Just like I said in the video, this is temporary wiring just to maintain it. The cables will be significant when they’re hooked up for a load
Thank You ! Excellent!
Hey are the batteries still good ? Need a progress report and looking to buy 😅
With your hair, you look like Jessica Brown Finley 😍
Looks like you are building a nice home
Love you Pippi, your the best.
Your house looks nice keeping solar panels, great i learned too much about solar energy 👍
Great info 🙂 and love the shirt
Yay, I missed you but I forgot your name. I was just talkin to handy bob a few weeks ago and I thought about you but just couldn't remember your name
Hi Pippi! ✌😎🏴☠️
Hi!
You SERIOUSLY need to use thicker gauge cables to connect those batteries. I would use 2 or 4 gauge wire.
She is just using that wire to keep them topped off until she wires the solar charge controllers, she mentioned that in the video.
The Hydrogen and Oxygen given off by gassing LA batteries can totally explode, " ask your Fire Department"
I can only Imagine......
I haven't watch the channel in awhile no more RV ing
Did you change your hair style, it looks really good
Thanks!
Crown makes excellent kAh/$ batteries.
Pippi, did you consider AGM deep cycle batteries?
Really no advantage except you you don't need to check the water level, but they cost twice as much.
Exactly what David said. Unless they’re placed in a hard to get to area it’s no real benefit and in fact it’s likely to have a shorter life because they can’t be maintained.
you sure can move fast
If you are ever around Hobbs NM let me know and I invite you to dinner
The wires are too thin on your 12 V system.
She said they are just to keep the batteries charged until she installs the solar charge controllers.
Ok, I got it.
Dewalt!
😁
Hello Pippi!!!😊
Hello!
Hello
Sorry, but dated info about lithium. Current generation of lithium poses very little danger of fire, especially those with adequate management system. FLA, on the other hand, will always carry with it the risk of toxic fumes and explosion. Environmentally, lead is a huge loser, compared to Li.
FLA also loses big time economically in the long run, and are easily damaged by constant over- depletion. And there are multiple other arguments against lead/acid, but it is essentially dead, or simply inappropriate, technology, given the available alternatives.
If lithium batteries catch on fire they are very toxic. Nothing wrong with lithium batteries, but not everyone can afford them, and Lead Acid can easily last 6 years if taken care of, like I am sure she will.
@@Schmitz3 Li batteries are a front loaded investment. Long term they are way less expensive than lead acid.
Just as you would for any other battery have a routine and necessary equipment on board, for the rare occasion when things go South.
@@MrZeissOne They are not an investment and will depreciate in value quickly, No one knows for sure how long they will last and their capacity decreases every day they are used, just like lead acid batteries.
@@Schmitz3 Actually, they have a very good track record and do not deteriorate nearly as fast as FLA batteries. They can be drawn down past 80% without damage, and recharge much faster.
Several manufacturers are offering 10 year warranties. Time will tell whether or not they win that bet. So far they are doubt very well.
Given their many advantages, including cost, I believe they have already Proven to be an excellent investment, relative to FLA.
@@MrZeissOneThe Battleborn company has not even been in business for 10 years and their batteries have only been available for 4 years, if the batteries start failing within the 10 year limit, Battlrborn will go out of business replacing all the failed batteries, that is more of a gamble in my opinion. There is a couple of influencers who adopted LiFePo4 early in the game and only got 8.5 years out of them.
I’m by no means knowledgeable about your set up but wouldn’t you benefit in safety and conductivity with heavier gauge wire?
She said in the video it was temporary, just to keep the batteries charged until the rest of the solar is setup.
One word Ventilation ?
Most garages have a vent in the roof, should be fine.
I’m planning to vent through the roof once I’m ready to put a load on them
Your so beautiful
Hi yo! ✌🏼
Hello!