I wish the video made a call out on how this device could potentially correct the bad habit people have found of just keeping their brake hand on the device and using a thumb-on-thumb-off feeding slack method that''s been acquired over the years of the device's field implementation (aka: natural user behavior shift). I GREATLY appreciate how the Neox is trying to get people back into the technique of treating the device just as a belay plate with brake assistance rather than a "push of the button".
We very nearly did, then when reviewing the edit we worried it might be showing how to do it wrong. Agree with you though, we probably should have. The good thing is there is no need to belay like that with the neox
So long as you're doing that method properly, it's not really a "bad habit", just a different way of paying slack. With the right hand position (1/2 fingers holding up the device from the underside of the ridge on the friction plate, thumb and rest of your fingers on the brake strand), it is nearly impossible to defeat the cam by squeezing it shut. I find this method is WAY faster at paying out slack than what you can do with the traditional "shuffle" technique that most people do with a belay plate/tube device, and takes slack in basically an identical fashion. Now, if you're referring to the method where people COMPLETELY take their hand off the brake strand and just squeeze/release the cam, that's a different story...
I'm really curious how it will turn out with users who were accustomed with not keeping the brake hand on the grigri, as this device also looks and feels almost the same. I suspect there will be a higher risk of accidents, for sure I'll look twice when someone would belay me with it.
@@derekcraig3617 see the first reply from Outside. We can obviously get into a big argument here so I’ll just reply only this. Historically speaking (while I’m no petzl rep), you can find copies of the manuals where they never showed the thumb technique. What your speaking of may have been added as an optional, only in quick slack feed situation needs. And then of course, instantly return the brake hand to your side in standard belay plate brake position and feed slack as you would normally with a belay plate. The new petzl video with Megos+Kirsch shows Kirsch never feeding with the thumb technique. Whatever your stance I’m glad at least now we all agree that the palm up, full clutch grab technique is completely wrong.
How easy does it lock? A Grigri will lock in 99.9% of cases even if you violate the brake hand principle (as long as you don’t pull the lever or press down on the top). What about the Neox? Are we going to see a ton of accidents from people who got used to violating the brake hand principle with the Grigri? Btw: I’m surprised none of these reviews mention the Wild Country Revo which is just as easy to feed out rope and take it back in and will basically always lock if the rope exceeds 4m/s.
The Neox basically works like autobelays, just as safe as a Grigri and the only fail modes are the same like on a Grigri. The big advantage is that you don’t have to press down on the top to hand out rope faster so the only accident could come from the lever.
It locked incredibly easily everytime when we were testing it and felt very reliable. It is brand new for us so time will tell. You are correct about the revo, it does pay out well but works in a very different way to the neox.
I've tried the Neox, it doesn't lock if you violate the brake hand principle. At least not when I tested it. The friction felt very similar to a Revo, I don't think it's worth it if you've already got one.
@@pcbde Some people like @ewthrby above say that it doesn’t lock if you violate the brake hand principle. I mean … most belay devices don’t lock in that situation either (e.g. ClickUp, Mammut Smart, Edelrid Jul etc.). But with the Grigri the nice thing was that in 99.9% cases it still locked even with no hand on the rope.
@@Mike-oz4cv The Neox blocks as soon as you try to feed rope fast without moving slack towards the device with your break hand. Compared to a Grigri/Pinch the Neox locks a bit later than the former, according to the documentation it can take roughly half a wheel rotation to lock. This does feel like the Neox isn’t locking immediately and makes it worse for toproping and trs aswell. I’ve talked to the Petzl guys and they were more open about the capabilities than the rather restrictive documentation. They’ve even mentioned the possibility to lrs but i guess that requires some more testing before.
@@AW-po7jr well it's a cheap price considering how much it lasts, that ur life depends on it and that Gri-Gris are usually about 100 bucks. But in general like the dude says it, if u already have a Gri-Gri and know how to use it, don't bother.
@@HernanPastenes considering there are cheaper options that are even safer (Grigri or Revo) I d go with the safer and cheaper device. The Safety was tested by the RUclips Channel: „hard is easy“ if you dont believe me, the Neox can fail to lock under unfortunate conditions. Beside, there is no Long term experience how long it lasts.
@@AW-po7jr considering that its technically a "modified" Gri-Gri I think it will last around the same time as a regular Gri-Gri, the issue biggest issue I think that there is here is since you can give rope aggressively you will need a bigger "threshold" for it to activate. Btw i was defending the price point not the system itself. I prefer the Gri-Gri since it's more "safe-proof" I'd rather have the tight rope issue than a biggest threshold for it to activate.
Among the circles I climb with, no one makes this distinction between grigri and tube style devices where one's more popular for trad and the other is more popular for sport. Is that a British thing?
In the UK we normally use double ropes for trad due to the wondering nature of the routes it makes sense. Also sometimes the slight slipage in a reverso/atc when catching a fall is a bit softer and can create less stress on the protection. This can be a factor for marginal gear of soft rock. Hope this makes sense.
@@OutsideHathersage awesome yeah that makes a lot of sense. People use that kind of system in the Alpine lot here, most of the trad I do, I don't lead trad yet, but most of what I do is splitter crack or other systems that aren't particularly wandering. I'd love to climb in the UK sometime.
Okay, I'm a sports climber that doesn't really have a clue how trad works, but: why would you not use the NEOX for trad? From the few trad experiences I've had belaying trad and sports looked very similar. What am I missing?
Because in trad climbing it's often advantageous to belay the follower from the top, even in a single pitch environment, and the Neox isn't great for top-belay systems.
falling on trad gear, when belayed with a grigri, quickly exceeds huge forces on the gear, as you often can´t give a nice soft catch with it. people now will say, but it works. Yeah, usually after three trials they manage to do so, but in a real wordl climbing, you must get it instantly right (soft). With a tubular device (and practice) not an problem. With a grigri, most belayers will suck, and therfore rip the small gear out of its placement. Or wach the latest hardiseasy content, why it can be a advantage to give a really soft belay, not to break the rope, when running over and edge. A tube is a much more powerfull device, compared with all those assisted braking shit.
I wonder how the locking mechanism bodes for the rope's longevity due to the sharper bite point. Though I doubt it's much different from a rope through a draw on a fall.
Curious why the Birdie isn't more popular. It solved this problem a long time ago and is cheaper than the Neox. It's even got a slightly lower profile that takes less space on the harnes, locks well but also feeds out smooth and easy.
A shame PETZL didn't put the steel reinforcement in the flap where the rope rubs over it. They did it in the GriGri+ and it extends the life of the device to nearly indefinitely. The softer aluminium rubs through after a couple of years. Well, I guess it's better for their bottom line that way!
I agree, it's frustrating this only features on the beginner orientated "+"when ironically its needed more for advanced climbers who climb much more frequently. I've heard it's to do with the added weight but I think the majority would be happy with that slight increase.
While it looks very interesting, I still do feel that we will see a lot of falls initially as some people simply got used to violating the brake hand principle with the Grigri and it seems that this device will not lock as easily as some other devices. @hardiseasy will surely provide us with some testing in the future. What will also be of note is that a Grigri tends to get a bit smoother once it is worn in properly, it will be interesting to see whether or not the same effect can be observed here.
Advantages compared to an atc? What I see: Atc: lighter, double rope, rapell, belay the second, more robust as no moving parts (and it is cheap) The grigri blocks also if stupid things hapen but is not good to rapidly change bewtween extending and retracting rope. Neox: no auto blocking, just a little more more blocking force.
Yeah it doesn't lock *at all* when feeding slack. Like *literally* I've had my climber pull slack out without me feeding at all. It only locks when someone falls. When I first pulled on the climber side and it just pulled a bunch of rope out without locking I got worried but we did a bunch of test falls and it always locks from the force of a fall but never locked from a tug on the rope unless you *really* yank hard.
I would love to try one but I don't think I'd ever buy one. It is funny when people talk about how this is better because it pays out more like a tubular device. I bought an ATC-Pilot a few years ago and ditched my grigri. Tubular AND assisted braking. The pilot is the best sport belay device on the market IMHO. I have tried a couple others with similar design and none are as smooth as the pilot. To each his own though. Get a device and learn how to use it safely.
@@stindare2230 but with that logic, I might as well get an atc. And I meant if it was as reliable as the grigri for top rope, while also just being a better lead device
@@monke25 i dont think it works that way (logic and all) just because all devices will work doesn’t mean that there aren’t ones that are distinctly better or that have advantages.
why do people not use a grigri with trad climbing???? makes no sense. I've always used a grigri for trad climbing. I never had an issue with paying out slack. if a person can't pay out slack quickly with a grigri it's user error
I am looking to get a grigri for use when tree hunting. The only uses will be fall protection from the top of the tree and rappelling down at the end of the day. Would the neox be more convenient than a grigri?
You should get a grigri. The neox is only advantageous for giving out slack quickly, which shouldnt be happening for tree hunting. A grigri will totally meet your needs.
@@benschuster9792I second that. The Rig is the name of a petzl rope working device that's basically a grigei but it has a built in lock for going hands free like rope workers need to do when controlling their own height and working with both hands.
Problem seems to come where it doesn’t lock up unless there’s significant tension on the break hand, I agree that the easy feeding would be great for TR soloing but if you fall..
@@OutsideHathersage yeah they say that but I could see this working well in a solo lead setup even. It would make a great primary device for feeding to replace something like a traxion. I think this could become really popular in both TR and lead solo setups with a good secondary device.
1. You shall not hold the neox while belaying (written in the manual and the issues the Grigri has with it are even worse) 2. The neox is much heavier 3. The neox is noisy (makes a noise while giving slack)
Or you could just learn to belay well. Still seems like based on the hand position you can feed slack faster with a grigri because you can push down with your right hand instead of having the belay device pointing up from fiction as you feed out rope. Really seems like its heavier and does nothing better unless someone is new to belaying. Also, grigri for trad all day.
“Includes paid promotion”, and Petzl draws / shirts in every shot immediately makes this “review” entirely redundant. What a joke. This is everything that is wrong with gear reviews from influencers or companies on social media these days. It’s all just a bunch of funded bias.
Sorry you feel like that, Steve is sponsored by Petzl so obviously had all petzl gear. James owns Wild Country draws but recently lost them! (Theft or misplaced unknown yet!) As an family run independent shop we choose our own gear, hence we like most of it and gear reviews are nearly all positive! If we thought something was poor we probably wouldnt stock it. Petzl did not pay us to say good things, simply asked us to review it. Still appreciate the comments as positive or negative feedback is helpful 👍
@@OutsideHathersageWether the incredibly blatant product placement throughout the video was intentional or not, I hope you guys can see how much of a direct conflict of interest it is to not only be payed by the company who’s product you are reviewing, but even more so to be reviewing a piece of gear from a company who is also directly sponsoring one of the “reviewers”. With the logos all throughout the video this just screams ad, rather than a genuine unbiased review. Don’t get me wrong, sponsored ads are totally fine, and in some instances integral for the sustainability of a RUclips channel, but disguising it as a review comes across as dishonest and misleading.
@@OutsideHathersage its like richi sunak pushing the covid vaccine , after making 800 million profit from it but saying he has no conflict of interest because its his wife who bought the shares
A Grigri pays out rope dramatically different than an ATC. That is precisely the problem with the Grigi. It is a pain in the ass for sketch lead belays, where one might miss the desperate clip, and the belayer can quite easily short sheet them, and then fall an additional 12 or so feet (5x2 plus stretch). That is a lot of extra fall energy. An experienced belayer with an ATC almost never has this problem. The Grigi is amazing for top rope, especially for sketchy/distracted belayers. Opinion based on the review: I would say that they HAVE re-designed the wheel, quite literally. The Grigri is not a wheel (its a cam). The Neox is a wheel (which might get clogged with dirt) and a cam/pivot. $150 is quite a cost for this improvement. Perhaps it is worth it to have one device.
Have a Gri Gri, hardly use it anymore. It's heavy, larger, and more complicated. There's a reason the tube devices have been around for decades and still are; they simply work. My preference is an ATC or Reverso and will continue to be so. Climbing 45+ yrs.
@@JBMountainSkills Not at all. When I began climbing it was common to use the sitting or standing hip belay. Then we began using the figure 8, and soon a 'stitch plate'. LOL. I am very comfortable with the tube devices.
@@tsukubai081808 my first device was a Stitch Plate so I’ve been there too. The fact is there are better devices than tube style ones for sport climbing at least. Of course an ATC or Reverso work just fine for it but an assisted braking device is just simply better and safer too.
@@JBMountainSkills so you aren´t able to quickly lock up a tube, when climber is resting ? seriously ? You´re also just one of those "grigri" guys, rarely giving a decent belay with tube. There are quick ways to add a lot of friction, and undo when climbing again. i can belay hand free with tube to get my meal, cigarettes, drink without any problem. i sold my grigri decades ago, it´s just senseless weight i don´t need.
@@hapaxlegomenon6944 not sure why you feel the need to be aggressive. We’re talking about a belay device! Yeah I use tons of different devices including non assisted. For sport though, yeah I choose a GriGri 💁♂️
Most people can get the hang of a normal Grigri within hours. The Grigri+ sucks, Petzl knew it would suck, experienced climbers knew it would suck, newer climbers had no frame of reference. Luckily Petzl offers a solution so the newer climbers have more gear to buy to solve a problem Petzl invented. This is a protection racket. Sell a problem, sell a solution. Oh joy even this solution has less features than the regular Grigri. What a scam product.
End-user deviation from manufacturer intended and instructed operation is not inventing a problem. The lip was designed to prevent wear, not for your index finger to rest on. This device seems to put the training wheels back on for people that are impatient (or unwilling) to learn correct technique and finesse. Seems like a smart way to make more money while navigating people back to the way the device was intended to be used.
@@DerekYoungYPRyou're just making ish up there cheif. Petzle specifically teaches to use the lip with your finger while holding the break end. where'd you learn to belay, a climbing gym?
That's simply not true? Petzl's technical sheets says, this is a direct quote, "GRIGRI, GRIGRI + and NEOX can be used for belaying the second from the belay station on multi-pitch routes."
@@hellboundzed" Greater risk of the cam accidentally pressing against the rock or belay elements Greater risk of rope slippage if the belayer does not hold the brake side of the rope" Doesn't happen with a reverso....
I used a Revo for 4 years until the fins wore down on the wheel. Loved the Revo! But it has a few minor flaws: 1. It isn't a progress capture device; 2. Belaying a hangdogger requires some shenanigans...doable, but a pain. 3. Belaying your second from above is challenging (no progress capture). Used the Neox today at the gym and loved it! All the problems of the GriGri version 1, 2 and 3 (+) have been solved. No, it's not as stupid proof as the Revo, you can thread the Neox wrong. But throwing rope is to your leader is as good as the Revo. It lowers perfectly, locks up just like a normal Gri. We even tried it belaying from above. As long as a break hand was in play, it grabbed just as good as the GriGri +.
@@markhwebster thank you for your insight, appreciated! I am at my second revo and I am happy as long it’s indoor climbing. It definitely has some flaws, you described it well. I just wonder what a „hangdogger“ is? One idea, in case you are going back to the revo: it’s true, there is no progress lock but I squeeze the device with my left hand after pulling in rope. That locks the device and feels like a progress lock. Because of your suggestion i might give the Neox a go but only when the price is at the level of a grigri. I find it quite overpriced
@@AW-po7jr Yes, I also bought a new (second) Revo but gave it to my wife because she doesn't like holding down the cam on our GriGri's. We have both GriGri 2 and 3(+). I haven't tried your trick of squeezing the Revo for progress capture, very interesting. I've been known to simply step on the rope as a way to hold a top roper who is constantly falling. That is the Revo flaw: it won't grab unless there is acceleration. I've also learned to manually flip the Revo lever up, forcing it to lock...but that is a bit tricky when they are already loading the rope. Hang dogging refers to someone who is repeatedly falling on lead. They will yell: "Take" to avoid a whipper. I've caught hundreds of trad and sport falls with my Revo all over the West coast from Joshua Tree to Squamish and Indian Creek. I kept hoping they would make Revo version 2 and address the minor problems. It appears that the Neox has beat them to it. I'm waiting until the Neox has been out for a while...make sure it doesn't have some hidden flaws. Neox feels and looks a little flimsy compared to my GriGri +.
Never ever have any issues paying out slack to a leader with a grigri. Just bite the cam (pinch) the device and pay it out. This device seems unnecessary.
@@GeneRosellini a belay device that requires you to block the braking function to feed slack quickly is a flawed device. That flaw can be exploited by user error and then we get accidents occurring. It’s an improvement in safety if it requires less skill to use safely.
@@GeneRosellini I am aware that it was designed for that, this new device is not designed for that so is imo an improvement. When I saw flaw I do not mean fault, it’s a known feature of the device that can lead to failure
$150 is the price on REI for those wondering!
Wtf they are completly crazy...
Not terrible for a brand new device. I'm sure it will go down in the coming years.
That’s too expensive. Who do they think buys this for 150? I guess it’s just climbing gym hipsters.
@@AW-po7jr $150 for a device that will last 10+ years. Trad climbers regularly pay $130+ for a single cam.
I wish the video made a call out on how this device could potentially correct the bad habit people have found of just keeping their brake hand on the device and using a thumb-on-thumb-off feeding slack method that''s been acquired over the years of the device's field implementation (aka: natural user behavior shift). I GREATLY appreciate how the Neox is trying to get people back into the technique of treating the device just as a belay plate with brake assistance rather than a "push of the button".
We very nearly did, then when reviewing the edit we worried it might be showing how to do it wrong. Agree with you though, we probably should have. The good thing is there is no need to belay like that with the neox
So long as you're doing that method properly, it's not really a "bad habit", just a different way of paying slack. With the right hand position (1/2 fingers holding up the device from the underside of the ridge on the friction plate, thumb and rest of your fingers on the brake strand), it is nearly impossible to defeat the cam by squeezing it shut. I find this method is WAY faster at paying out slack than what you can do with the traditional "shuffle" technique that most people do with a belay plate/tube device, and takes slack in basically an identical fashion. Now, if you're referring to the method where people COMPLETELY take their hand off the brake strand and just squeeze/release the cam, that's a different story...
I'm really curious how it will turn out with users who were accustomed with not keeping the brake hand on the grigri, as this device also looks and feels almost the same. I suspect there will be a higher risk of accidents, for sure I'll look twice when someone would belay me with it.
the thumb on is the proper way to pay out slack. what are we talking about here?
@@derekcraig3617 see the first reply from Outside. We can obviously get into a big argument here so I’ll just reply only this. Historically speaking (while I’m no petzl rep), you can find copies of the manuals where they never showed the thumb technique. What your speaking of may have been added as an optional, only in quick slack feed situation needs. And then of course, instantly return the brake hand to your side in standard belay plate brake position and feed slack as you would normally with a belay plate. The new petzl video with Megos+Kirsch shows Kirsch never feeding with the thumb technique. Whatever your stance I’m glad at least now we all agree that the palm up, full clutch grab technique is completely wrong.
How easy does it lock? A Grigri will lock in 99.9% of cases even if you violate the brake hand principle (as long as you don’t pull the lever or press down on the top). What about the Neox? Are we going to see a ton of accidents from people who got used to violating the brake hand principle with the Grigri?
Btw: I’m surprised none of these reviews mention the Wild Country Revo which is just as easy to feed out rope and take it back in and will basically always lock if the rope exceeds 4m/s.
The Neox basically works like autobelays, just as safe as a Grigri and the only fail modes are the same like on a Grigri. The big advantage is that you don’t have to press down on the top to hand out rope faster so the only accident could come from the lever.
It locked incredibly easily everytime when we were testing it and felt very reliable. It is brand new for us so time will tell.
You are correct about the revo, it does pay out well but works in a very different way to the neox.
I've tried the Neox, it doesn't lock if you violate the brake hand principle. At least not when I tested it.
The friction felt very similar to a Revo, I don't think it's worth it if you've already got one.
@@pcbde Some people like @ewthrby above say that it doesn’t lock if you violate the brake hand principle. I mean … most belay devices don’t lock in that situation either (e.g. ClickUp, Mammut Smart, Edelrid Jul etc.). But with the Grigri the nice thing was that in 99.9% cases it still locked even with no hand on the rope.
@@Mike-oz4cv The Neox blocks as soon as you try to feed rope fast without moving slack towards the device with your break hand. Compared to a Grigri/Pinch the Neox locks a bit later than the former, according to the documentation it can take roughly half a wheel rotation to lock. This does feel like the Neox isn’t locking immediately and makes it worse for toproping and trs aswell. I’ve talked to the Petzl guys and they were more open about the capabilities than the rather restrictive documentation. They’ve even mentioned the possibility to lrs but i guess that requires some more testing before.
Tested it some months ago. Definitely gonna buy it, it works super good
For 150? That’s the price. I am also interested but not at this price point.
@@AW-po7jr well it's a cheap price considering how much it lasts, that ur life depends on it and that Gri-Gris are usually about 100 bucks. But in general like the dude says it, if u already have a Gri-Gri and know how to use it, don't bother.
@@HernanPastenes considering there are cheaper options that are even safer (Grigri or Revo) I d go with the safer and cheaper device. The Safety was tested by the RUclips Channel: „hard is easy“ if you dont believe me, the Neox can fail to lock under unfortunate conditions.
Beside, there is no Long term experience how long it lasts.
@@AW-po7jr considering that its technically a "modified" Gri-Gri I think it will last around the same time as a regular Gri-Gri, the issue biggest issue I think that there is here is since you can give rope aggressively you will need a bigger "threshold" for it to activate.
Btw i was defending the price point not the system itself. I prefer the Gri-Gri since it's more "safe-proof" I'd rather have the tight rope issue than a biggest threshold for it to activate.
Among the circles I climb with, no one makes this distinction between grigri and tube style devices where one's more popular for trad and the other is more popular for sport. Is that a British thing?
In the UK we normally use double ropes for trad due to the wondering nature of the routes it makes sense.
Also sometimes the slight slipage in a reverso/atc when catching a fall is a bit softer and can create less stress on the protection. This can be a factor for marginal gear of soft rock. Hope this makes sense.
@@OutsideHathersage awesome yeah that makes a lot of sense. People use that kind of system in the Alpine lot here, most of the trad I do, I don't lead trad yet, but most of what I do is splitter crack or other systems that aren't particularly wandering. I'd love to climb in the UK sometime.
If UK climbers do something it is 1. Crazy and 2. Not found anywhere else in the world.
@@CFEF44AB1399978B0011 come say hi in the shop if you're in the Peak District!
Okay, I'm a sports climber that doesn't really have a clue how trad works, but: why would you not use the NEOX for trad? From the few trad experiences I've had belaying trad and sports looked very similar. What am I missing?
In the UK and europe in general it is more common to use 2 half ropes for trad and you cant use a grigri with 2 ropes.
Because in trad climbing it's often advantageous to belay the follower from the top, even in a single pitch environment, and the Neox isn't great for top-belay systems.
falling on trad gear, when belayed with a grigri, quickly exceeds huge forces on the gear, as you often can´t give a nice soft catch with it.
people now will say, but it works.
Yeah, usually after three trials they manage to do so, but in a real wordl climbing, you must get it instantly right (soft).
With a tubular device (and practice) not an problem.
With a grigri, most belayers will suck, and therfore rip the small gear out of its placement.
Or wach the latest hardiseasy content, why it can be a advantage to give a really soft belay, not to break the rope, when running over and edge.
A tube is a much more powerfull device, compared with all those assisted braking shit.
I wonder how the locking mechanism bodes for the rope's longevity due to the sharper bite point. Though I doubt it's much different from a rope through a draw on a fall.
I mean, the grigri does its blocking with the pinch at the front of the cam. I agree it’ll be interesting to watch play out.
HowNot2 has a test video.
I've heard its not ideal for those who only do TR, since during a catch it will slide around 4cm (can be found in their FAQs).
TR - top rope?
Yeah I'd only recommend it for people who lead but it works fine for TR you'd just be better with the normal grigri for TR exclusive and its cheaper.
Can you belay the second? Petzl doesn't say etiher way in the manual. I assume you can't then?
you could
Curious why the Birdie isn't more popular. It solved this problem a long time ago and is cheaper than the Neox. It's even got a slightly lower profile that takes less space on the harnes, locks well but also feeds out smooth and easy.
A shame PETZL didn't put the steel reinforcement in the flap where the rope rubs over it. They did it in the GriGri+ and it extends the life of the device to nearly indefinitely. The softer aluminium rubs through after a couple of years. Well, I guess it's better for their bottom line that way!
I agree, it's frustrating this only features on the beginner orientated "+"when ironically its needed more for advanced climbers who climb much more frequently. I've heard it's to do with the added weight but I think the majority would be happy with that slight increase.
While it looks very interesting, I still do feel that we will see a lot of falls initially as some people simply got used to violating the brake hand principle with the Grigri and it seems that this device will not lock as easily as some other devices. @hardiseasy will surely provide us with some testing in the future. What will also be of note is that a Grigri tends to get a bit smoother once it is worn in properly, it will be interesting to see whether or not the same effect can be observed here.
Why are you not using a safebiner?
Does the NEOX also have the anti-panic lever like the GRIGR+?
No it doesn't.
@@OutsideHathersagedeal breaker, seriously
@@OutsideHathersageExcellent, the lever on the plus is super annoying.
Advantages compared to an atc?
What I see:
Atc: lighter, double rope, rapell, belay the second, more robust as no moving parts (and it is cheap)
The grigri blocks also if stupid things hapen but is not good to rapidly change bewtween extending and retracting rope.
Neox: no auto blocking, just a little more more blocking force.
What is the working rope diameter range?
From Petzl's website: Rope compatibility: 8.5 to 11 mm single rope
I wonder how it compares to grigri for solo-lead climbing?
It seems that more tension is needed on the brake hand for it to lock. So for LRS it probably would not work
@@benschuster9792 You need to keep a hand on the dead rope, otherwise it will not lock. No good for rope soloing.
@@accessmountain2019 yeah that’s basically what I said
So it locks less when giving slack than the original grigri right ? Anyone who bought and tested it can confirm that ?
Yeah it doesn't lock *at all* when feeding slack. Like *literally* I've had my climber pull slack out without me feeding at all. It only locks when someone falls.
When I first pulled on the climber side and it just pulled a bunch of rope out without locking I got worried but we did a bunch of test falls and it always locks from the force of a fall but never locked from a tug on the rope unless you *really* yank hard.
Looks awesome!
My questions would be how it handles dirt, being a wheel as well as ice climbing applications. Would it freeze up?
So far so good regards dirt, honestly don't know regards ice.
Ice climbing with a gri gri style device =😱😱😱
@@petethepeg2 tell me you don’t climb ice without telling me… 🙄
@@Amanda-ev3xe Hmmmm, do you use a gri gri in your ice climbing ?
@@Amanda-ev3xe You`ve gone quiet on your answer ! Or are you in hospital recovering from using a gri gri for your ice climbing adventures ?LOL
I haven't seen anyone use a non-brake assisted device for trad climbing in a long time. A Grigri is perfectly fine for trad.
Until you need half ropes
Until you read the Grigri manual that says that the first piece to clip in to should hold for 14 kN.
@@alexanderolsson585 why would this be any different for a grigri vs any other belay device
@@MartinGarcia-jt1lr get 2 grigris! 😅
the forces on the gear are just twice as high when belaying with a grigri, in some climbs a distinctive difference.
Im using a click up because I hate how fiddly the grigri is, I might eventually give this a go
It definitely feeds easier than a click up
You say good for lead belay. But what about for rapelling / top roping ?
It will work exactly as a normal grigri, so it's not worth the extra cost.
Yes it works well from both of those but doesn't really offer any extra plus sides other the gri gri in those cases.
I would love to try one but I don't think I'd ever buy one. It is funny when people talk about how this is better because it pays out more like a tubular device. I bought an ATC-Pilot a few years ago and ditched my grigri. Tubular AND assisted braking. The pilot is the best sport belay device on the market IMHO. I have tried a couple others with similar design and none are as smooth as the pilot. To each his own though. Get a device and learn how to use it safely.
The pilot is a brilliant piece of kit too.
Does this work for top rope belaying?
@@SuperKeenan95 You didn't answer his question at all. Yes it does work for top rope belaying.
@@NouddeKroon thank you, as I do both
All belay devices will work for top rope belaying.
@@stindare2230 but with that logic, I might as well get an atc. And I meant if it was as reliable as the grigri for top rope, while also just being a better lead device
@@monke25 i dont think it works that way (logic and all) just because all devices will work doesn’t mean that there aren’t ones that are distinctly better or that have advantages.
I certainly don't love the GriGri but I'm very curious about the Neox!
why do people not use a grigri with trad climbing???? makes no sense. I've always used a grigri for trad climbing. I never had an issue with paying out slack. if a person can't pay out slack quickly with a grigri it's user error
Most people in the UK use half / double ropes trad climbing, so a GriGri isn't any use.
With single ropes absolutely. You just have to hold the grigri correctly, as it states in the user manual.
I am looking to get a grigri for use when tree hunting. The only uses will be fall protection from the top of the tree and rappelling down at the end of the day. Would the neox be more convenient than a grigri?
You should get a grigri. The neox is only advantageous for giving out slack quickly, which shouldnt be happening for tree hunting. A grigri will totally meet your needs.
I agree with we reply below. No real advantage for you with a neox, gri gri will probably be better.
Don’t get either. A Rig would be far more appropriate
@@benschuster9792I second that. The Rig is the name of a petzl rope working device that's basically a grigei but it has a built in lock for going hands free like rope workers need to do when controlling their own height and working with both hands.
Nobody pays out slack with the Grigri like you demonstrate it. Ever heard of the Gaswerkmethode?
It's part of the racket - show the wrong way so it look like the solution is worth buying.
Having to do "gaswerkmethode" manouvers is why the grigri is annoying on lead belay though.
@@Fabianwew I find that method the easiest option. The way shown in this video seems inefficient and busy. Totally safe, though.
I’m pretty sure this device exists so that method isn’t needed anymore
@@FourT6and22 The way shown in the video is the normal way you would belay with a tube device?
Seems like this is a purpose built TR solo rig? Or am I missing something?
Problem seems to come where it doesn’t lock up unless there’s significant tension on the break hand, I agree that the easy feeding would be great for TR soloing but if you fall..
Petzl say this is absolutely NOT for rope soloing. So we didn't try it!
@@OutsideHathersage yeah they say that but I could see this working well in a solo lead setup even. It would make a great primary device for feeding to replace something like a traxion. I think this could become really popular in both TR and lead solo setups with a good secondary device.
1. You shall not hold the neox while belaying (written in the manual and the issues the Grigri has with it are even worse)
2. The neox is much heavier
3. The neox is noisy (makes a noise while giving slack)
Or you could just learn to belay well. Still seems like based on the hand position you can feed slack faster with a grigri because you can push down with your right hand instead of having the belay device pointing up from fiction as you feed out rope. Really seems like its heavier and does nothing better unless someone is new to belaying. Also, grigri for trad all day.
Some of the very worst belaying I've seen and experienced is from experienced climbers. ...
I have the GriGri+ and love it
“Includes paid promotion”, and Petzl draws / shirts in every shot immediately makes this “review” entirely redundant. What a joke. This is everything that is wrong with gear reviews from influencers or companies on social media these days. It’s all just a bunch of funded bias.
Sorry you feel like that, Steve is sponsored by Petzl so obviously had all petzl gear. James owns Wild Country draws but recently lost them! (Theft or misplaced unknown yet!) As an family run independent shop we choose our own gear, hence we like most of it and gear reviews are nearly all positive! If we thought something was poor we probably wouldnt stock it. Petzl did not pay us to say good things, simply asked us to review it.
Still appreciate the comments as positive or negative feedback is helpful 👍
@@OutsideHathersageWether the incredibly blatant product placement throughout the video was intentional or not, I hope you guys can see how much of a direct conflict of interest it is to not only be payed by the company who’s product you are reviewing, but even more so to be reviewing a piece of gear from a company who is also directly sponsoring one of the “reviewers”. With the logos all throughout the video this just screams ad, rather than a genuine unbiased review. Don’t get me wrong, sponsored ads are totally fine, and in some instances integral for the sustainability of a RUclips channel, but disguising it as a review comes across as dishonest and misleading.
it´s a user error, as people watch those monetarized channels, they get obviously ads
@@OutsideHathersage its like richi sunak pushing the covid vaccine , after making 800 million profit from it but saying he has no conflict of interest because its his wife who bought the shares
It looks like its purpose is just make paying slack more easy for trad or lead climbing. But some one should learn to do this on atc.
A Grigri pays out rope dramatically different than an ATC. That is precisely the problem with the Grigi. It is a pain in the ass for sketch lead belays, where one might miss the desperate clip, and the belayer can quite easily short sheet them, and then fall an additional 12 or so feet (5x2 plus stretch). That is a lot of extra fall energy. An experienced belayer with an ATC almost never has this problem.
The Grigi is amazing for top rope, especially for sketchy/distracted belayers.
Opinion based on the review: I would say that they HAVE re-designed the wheel, quite literally. The Grigri is not a wheel (its a cam). The Neox is a wheel (which might get clogged with dirt) and a cam/pivot.
$150 is quite a cost for this improvement. Perhaps it is worth it to have one device.
Learn on an ATC then get a brake assist device that works well. This is one option.
Have a Gri Gri, hardly use it anymore. It's heavy, larger, and more complicated. There's a reason the tube devices have been around for decades and still are; they simply work. My preference is an ATC or Reverso and will continue to be so. Climbing 45+ yrs.
Must be a right chore belaying someone working a route on an ATC / Reverso?!
@@JBMountainSkills Not at all. When I began climbing it was common to use the sitting or standing hip belay. Then we began using the figure 8, and soon a 'stitch plate'. LOL. I am very comfortable with the tube devices.
@@tsukubai081808 my first device was a Stitch Plate so I’ve been there too. The fact is there are better devices than tube style ones for sport climbing at least. Of course an ATC or Reverso work just fine for it but an assisted braking device is just simply better and safer too.
@@JBMountainSkills so you aren´t able to quickly lock up a tube, when climber is resting ? seriously ? You´re also just one of those "grigri" guys, rarely giving a decent belay with tube.
There are quick ways to add a lot of friction, and undo when climbing again. i can belay hand free with tube to get my meal, cigarettes, drink without any problem.
i sold my grigri decades ago, it´s just senseless weight i don´t need.
@@hapaxlegomenon6944 not sure why you feel the need to be aggressive. We’re talking about a belay device!
Yeah I use tons of different devices including non assisted. For sport though, yeah I choose a GriGri 💁♂️
Most people can get the hang of a normal Grigri within hours. The Grigri+ sucks, Petzl knew it would suck, experienced climbers knew it would suck, newer climbers had no frame of reference. Luckily Petzl offers a solution so the newer climbers have more gear to buy to solve a problem Petzl invented. This is a protection racket. Sell a problem, sell a solution. Oh joy even this solution has less features than the regular Grigri. What a scam product.
Yeah! We never landed on the MOON either!
Gri gri plus is good, if you don’t understand why. You are a fool
End-user deviation from manufacturer intended and instructed operation is not inventing a problem. The lip was designed to prevent wear, not for your index finger to rest on. This device seems to put the training wheels back on for people that are impatient (or unwilling) to learn correct technique and finesse. Seems like a smart way to make more money while navigating people back to the way the device was intended to be used.
@@DerekYoungYPR You should read the grigri manual because they specifically show the lip used for your finger. Things can be intended for 2 purposes.
@@DerekYoungYPRyou're just making ish up there cheif. Petzle specifically teaches to use the lip with your finger while holding the break end. where'd you learn to belay, a climbing gym?
Karolann Springs
Después de ver esto voy a dejar de usar el grigri y voy a empezar a utilizar el reverso
It's not recommended for progress capture or guide mode style top down belaying.
so not advisable for mutlipitch? only limit sport climbing then?
Damn, that's brutal!
It seems to be excellent for single pitch sport, no advantage to top roping and worse for multi. It's a lot heavier too, as it has more steel in it
That's simply not true? Petzl's technical sheets says, this is a direct quote, "GRIGRI, GRIGRI + and NEOX can be used for belaying the second from the belay station on multi-pitch routes."
@@hellboundzed" Greater risk of the cam accidentally pressing against the rock or belay elements
Greater risk of rope slippage if the belayer does not hold the brake side of the rope"
Doesn't happen with a reverso....
For me the Wild Country Revo is king for indoor climbing.
This looks nice, I wonder if it’s as „stupid proof“ as the Revo.
I used a Revo for 4 years until the fins wore down on the wheel. Loved the Revo! But it has a few minor flaws: 1. It isn't a progress capture device; 2. Belaying a hangdogger requires some shenanigans...doable, but a pain. 3. Belaying your second from above is challenging (no progress capture). Used the Neox today at the gym and loved it! All the problems of the GriGri version 1, 2 and 3 (+) have been solved. No, it's not as stupid proof as the Revo, you can thread the Neox wrong. But throwing rope is to your leader is as good as the Revo. It lowers perfectly, locks up just like a normal Gri. We even tried it belaying from above. As long as a break hand was in play, it grabbed just as good as the GriGri +.
@@markhwebster thank you for your insight, appreciated! I am at my second revo and I am happy as long it’s indoor climbing. It definitely has some flaws, you described it well. I just wonder what a „hangdogger“ is?
One idea, in case you are going back to the revo: it’s true, there is no progress lock but I squeeze the device with my left hand after pulling in rope. That locks the device and feels like a progress lock.
Because of your suggestion i might give the Neox a go but only when the price is at the level of a grigri. I find it quite overpriced
@@AW-po7jr Yes, I also bought a new (second) Revo but gave it to my wife because she doesn't like holding down the cam on our GriGri's. We have both GriGri 2 and 3(+). I haven't tried your trick of squeezing the Revo for progress capture, very interesting. I've been known to simply step on the rope as a way to hold a top roper who is constantly falling. That is the Revo flaw: it won't grab unless there is acceleration. I've also learned to manually flip the Revo lever up, forcing it to lock...but that is a bit tricky when they are already loading the rope. Hang dogging refers to someone who is repeatedly falling on lead. They will yell: "Take" to avoid a whipper. I've caught hundreds of trad and sport falls with my Revo all over the West coast from Joshua Tree to Squamish and Indian Creek. I kept hoping they would make Revo version 2 and address the minor problems. It appears that the Neox has beat them to it. I'm waiting until the Neox has been out for a while...make sure it doesn't have some hidden flaws. Neox feels and looks a little flimsy compared to my GriGri +.
Pearlie Meadows
Friesen Corners
Erdman Hollow
Frami Creek
Leatha Drive
Never ever have any issues paying out slack to a leader with a grigri. Just bite the cam (pinch) the device and pay it out. This device seems unnecessary.
It exists so you don’t have to do that. There have been accidents due to people not doing that method properly
@@GeneRosellini a belay device that requires you to block the braking function to feed slack quickly is a flawed device. That flaw can be exploited by user error and then we get accidents occurring. It’s an improvement in safety if it requires less skill to use safely.
@@GeneRosellini I am aware that it was designed for that, this new device is not designed for that so is imo an improvement. When I saw flaw I do not mean fault, it’s a known feature of the device that can lead to failure
@@GeneRoselliniEveryone that doesn't agree with you is an idiot. Got it.
👎👎👎 Price. I have Grigri 1. ❤
Petzle has made ZERO improvements on the grigri 1 design. we all miss that device
Buck Stream
man with Petzl t shirt on " its a great device" ! now go and spend your money on something you dont need
another belay device nobody needs
a good belayer can do the same (and even better) with just a ten buck biner.
Maybe don’t wear a petzl shirt for a supposedly unbiased review.
James didn't.
Sponsored athele Steve did, I do think you're right though.