It'd be cool if they could add an option to it where you can lock the wheel into place so that it's basically a normal grigri, for use in top belaying. Then it really could be a one size fits all assisted breaking device!
As a matter of fact, the carrots are not there because they are orange but because of Alex Megos, the climber in the video. There is a quote of him, because he is a strong climber and vegan " Carrots for power!" and I guess it should just show how he prepares for a hard climg, like getting his stuff ready, put on his shoes and eating a carrot, then he´s ready to go and the neox is ready to belay XD
It's so close to the ultimate device. If the rotating drum had an internal speed break like the revo it would be perfect. That way even if you for some reason let go of the brake side it would lock up if the rope was moving too fast. While still having the grigri camming style braking
My guess is that Petzl wants to get the Neox certified as the official belay device of climbing competitions and the Olympics, since they currently use a tube belay device and this could add some safety while still belaying similarly. That would be a huge boon for them. Otherwise I really only see this being a gym/single pitch device like you said, especially since it's heavier than the GriGri+, but that's all the climbing a lot of people do anyway so I imagine it will sell well. I'll be waiting until I find $100 I don't need, as I can lead belay with the GriGri just fine and it is such a versatile device for everything from gym climbing, to multipitch simul climbing.
Interesting thought... do you think that the belayers will have time to get accustomed to the device? And they won't be able to lower the climbers as they do now.
@@JoachimMilan1 I don't love my pinch. I like putting the grigri on the rope before clipping in, it's an all in one with the pinch. Perhaps I'm just too aclimated to the grigri
@@gravyblue so u think the grigi is better? How is giving slack is the grigi better? What about no carabiner is that not cool? Can u also clip the pinch to ur harness (not belay loop) without a carabiner?
@jeanpaulorl giving slack is the same. It attaches to the belay loop. I find the attachment fiddly. Also buddy check is compromised because my mates don't know what they're looking at
How does the device distinguish between a fall and "paying slack very quickly"? In other words: are there situations where this device locks when you don't want it to lock? Compared to a Grigri, I always liked the Jul^2 better because of its simplicity, steel being better for the rope, not causing entangling in the rope (sorry, no native speaker).
I highly recommend the Mad Rock Lifeguard. It's similar to the Birdie but lighter. It pays out like an atc and rarely cams when feeding out rope but still cams on a lead fall. It's also maintenance free and has a lifetime guarantee. After 5 years of constant use, the spring in the handle broke but Mad Rock are replacing it for free (with a proof of purchase). The only downside for me is it has a small handle for lowering and have on the odd occasion pinched my fingers against the rope. Definitely my go-to assisted braking belay.
Thanks for the review. 10:08 I was wondering what would happen if the belayer is not holding onto the break side. Also if it's not great for top belay, it's really got very limited uses, but for what it's designed for it seems great.
Slightly tricky to answer. Will it lock up if the belayer isn't holding on? Sometimes! Petzl have some video media coming out that talks about that a little.
Hi JB, I have for the last cazillion years been using ATC type devices. Occasionally used Grigri's in gyms and with friends, but never got hooked. Last year I got a Vergo based on briefly using a Cinch. I've gotten over the short roping tendency but still find lowering tricky. Do you have an opinion about the Vergo relative to the Neox? Also, do you think folding/twisting the rope over the side of any device hurts the rope? Thanks, Randy
Imho both Cinch and Vergo are needlessly dangerous devices that have no passive braking whatsoever, since the rope goes straight through. I've seen it rope burn people's hands in low friction situations where the cam doesn't engage. After googleing for incidents, I got rid of mine.
I’d like to see your take of the Neox vs the Jul2 , smart and ATC pilot . I find the benefits are that they are cheaper, lighter, have no moving parts and yet have the same functionality as the neox.
I’m new to lead, and fairly new to ropes to be honest lol I find that the GriGri can be tough to feed with the camming with the thumb method if everything isn’t just right. The rope needs to be middle of road wide. The rope needs to be clean. The climber needs to climb at a pace you’re comfortable with. Very easy to short rope. This seems like it would be a great option. It may be best or only used with the flossing method, but it seems like a great way to learn and a device that would be better for larger ropes, slightly dirty ropes, the device being slightly dirty. Seems like the device would be more forgiving. What do you think? Seems like it would be good to be good at both standard GriGri and Neox, but seems like a great tech advancement.
Thanks for the review! What's the thickest rope you used? Over here, we often times have very fluffy 10 mm ropes in gyms, where it's not easy to pay out slack with a Jul2 or Smart. I wonder if the Neox is any good there. I can totally see it with my 9.5 dry treated rope but I wonder about thick and fluffy ropes. Thanks!
Strange that you are having problems with fluffy 10mm gym ropes and the Jul2. I have that exact same situation very often, I tried Grigri, Clickup, Smart (2.0), Fish, Jul2, Revo and I found the Jul2 to be the easiest. If you put it into a position where both strands of the rope go out parallely to pay out slack, you can do it really fast without worrying that it locks unwanted. Key is to return to the basic position immediately for the brake assist to work in case of a fall ruclips.net/video/zPni_p2odzc/видео.html
Hi, how often does it lock up when catching a lead fall compared to a grigri? Grigri locks up automatically most of the time (without it pulling on the rope hand), is this like a 20%, 50% or 90%?
@@JBMountainSkills Nice, good to know, thanks. From petzl video it seemed like in never locks by itself. I know they wanted to emphasize the fact that people should not rely on the system and should always hold the rope, but most people now think its just a more expensive fancy atc with very unreliable locking. So thanks for clarifying :)
Is the Petzl belayer at 2:09 rolling the brake rope far enough up the lip? If I were tutoring a new Grigri user I'd certainly tell them to pull the rope a little closer to them, so it runs over the centre of the lip.
The revo is a good device for the combination heavy belayer and light climber. I (70kg) use it to lead belay kids and I can catch them very softly (softer than with for example a ClickUp, Smart, GriGri, Pinch,...)
take care: in case of light climbers and thick or used ropes, it can happen, that the rotation speed of the revo device is not fast enough (below 4 m/s) to engage the locking mode due to too much friction in the system. Therefore, the revo basically behaves like a tube in these situations (light climber with some friction in the system).
@@Oliver-rg9oh I know to never ever let go of the brake rope. I learnt to belay on the munter hitch. Then the first device I used was a normal tube. If you handle the revo correctly the break should never engage. It's there as back up for an otherwise normal tube (altough heavy).
@@ralfrussel1950 true, my statement was more related to the fact, that in case of light climbers with friction in the system the revo can truly behaves as a tube without back up. I tested this multiple times with kids, since I also liked the way to dynamically belay with this device similar to a tube. However, once I found out, that it is basically a tube in these situations, I am not using the revo anymore for kids, since it suggest you have a back up but in reality you don't (in these scenarios). I think it is just important to know the limitations of the device.
@@Oliver-rg9oh Ok, I have never had this happen. But my setting with kids is the gym with newish ropes. So, good to know and I have to do some testing. Does it not engage due to not reaching 4m/s?
I was sold on the concept but given its heavier and pricier I think I’ll just live with my “finely honed/weathered” grigri skills :) but there’s one thing I could be convinced of. When I abb off (or lower a long route) with the grig mine get super hot and I’m convinced it’s marked the rope a few times , does this generate less heat (assuming the wheel giving lower friction?) and therefore be better for the rope?
I don’t have a definite answer but when it locks the wheel doesn’t move, so I don’t think there’d be much difference between the GriGri and NEOX in your situation.
That video is on the to do list for sure but as a very brief one liner: Pinch is probably a better all rounder, the NEOX is probably better at what it does well.
@@JBMountainSkills fuck :( I have a grigi 3. I just orderd a neox :( Should i have gone with the pinch? Kann u quickly tell me the pros and cons? Maybe ill contact the seller and order the pinch.
Depends what you're after. The Pinch is more of an all rounder. Pays out pretty smooth, but not NEOX smooth. You can however use it for belaying from above, and it has switchable anti panic if that's something you want. I'd say the Pinch is more of a direct replacement for a GriGri, the NEOX a slight specialisation.
@@jeanpaulorlI bought the Pinch and got to test the Neox this weekend. For sport climbing the Neox feels more convenient and the only advantage the Pinch has is handing out rope super fast due to the bigger reach without a carabiner. For multipitch climbing I‘ll stick to a reverso since I frequently use double ropes.
@@JBMountainSkills how about top rope solo is the pinch any good? Or is the grigi 3 better or maybe even the grigi neox? Is the lov3 better overall for top eope solo?
What I was hoping to find out in this video was how does it work feeding slack compared to a tubular assisted braking device? I know you've used the Giga Jul as well as a lot of other tubular assisted braking devices. Would you say that this one is easier for lead climbing or would you stick with the tubular style?
Good question. Feeding out is actually more slick than an ATC style device I think. However clearly it can still lock up GriGri style when you’re trying to give out slack. That happens much more infrequently than with a GriGri but there is still a learning curve to get the timing and angles right. I think someone used to an ATC will get the hang of smooth belaying more quickly with a NEOX than a GriGri.
Cool device, thanks for the video! Seems like a decent improvement on the GriGri for sport climbing. Super looking forward to the Pinch video! As someone with shorter arms, having the device higher on my body (without a carabiner adding distance), it looks like it will be much easier to manage the brake hand with the Pinch. Really interested to see more about how it works in practice.
I see a lot of people in the comments wanting an "ultimate" device. I personally thing Petzl is doing the right thing putting the onus on the belayer to actually stop a fall. Climbers need to be more attentive, not have a failsafe for when they decide to stop paying attention
i use a modified grigri as an arborist, climbing trees and passing branches while resetting my flip line. its much simpler and has way less failure points than the zigzag. downside is i have to fight slack out of it... any opinions about this new tool in above application? will it readily lock and stay locked under less than my full body weight?
Nice video! At 9:18, you say "On the website, it does have little symbols on what the devices are for, and with the GriGri it shows belaying a leader, it shows belaying from above as well". Is this on petzl's site? I couldn't find it anywhere, nor in the GriGri technical notice, which makes me doubt it's usefullness as a device used for belaying from above.
GriGri info: www.petzl.com/INT/en/Sport/Belaying-multi-pitch-routes-on-single-rope-with-a-GRIGRI-/1000 I realised the bit I mentioned wasnt on the site but on some release info for the NEOX, which should be out tomorrow.
Did you notice that the wheel feels kind of janky as it moves from side to side and there is a good amount of friction keeping the wheel from freely spinning?
What would you recommend for someone like myself. This or a grigri as a first assisted breaking device. Lots of boldering but new to sport climing. Inside and a little outdoors but all quite new with ropes. What do you reckon?
I'm always wary of sounding biased on reviews, but honestly, as a new to sport / indoor climbing climber going for a first device, I'd chose this NEOX.
@@Deckageskate666I wouldn’t say the birdie is better per se, or safer really. Just slightly different and still a decent device. Different people prefer different devices.
This looks cool as hell, but I'm wondering, since the rope goes through so easily, can it slip in the case when the belayer lets go with the breaking hand? I know it's incorrect use, and I know gri gri can also slip, but it's very unlikely, at least I've never seen it.
A slightly cynical take (no pun intended) but I'd argue the Grigri is popular because it makes the belaying a lot easier when someone is working a route - once the fall is over it's trivial to hold them with the device locked. How did this fare? Once the device is braking the rope it's essentially locked until you release the device? Not quite take your hand off the rope but probably ok rummaging through a pack for snacks/the guidebook?
No discernible difference once it’s locked. Like the GriGri it’s to certified for allowing you to go hands free without a back up knot, but your not expending any energy to grip the rope, the NEOX is doing all the work.
I know you love the gigajul, have you ever tried the CT Alpine Up? Looks pretty tempting right now and apparently more efficient than the gigajul, and feels like a grigri while on rappel or belaying from what I've heard. What did you think about it if you tried it, and if you didn't, any reason why not? Would you give it a go? ^^ I really want to try it. Best thing for me compare to a grigri, or the new pinch, is having guide mode and two ropes options...
I’m interested in this thing. I know I’m kind of an outlier here but I actually HATE the grigri. I’m newer to sport climbing. Primarily a boulderer. Got the tube concept fairly quickly but the grigri just feels so awkward. And no. You cannot change my mind.
You're not alone! Plenty of people hate GriGris, not me, but plenty. I genuinely think the NEOX could be a device they'll / you'll really like. I'm no different to anyone, the grigri was a learning curve way back when, but when you have them dialled they're brilliant. I completely get why some people prefer other assisted braking devices. Sport on a tube style device isn't something I'd chose though unless I forgot my GriGri!
I'm really curious about this new device, but the price is really high. And I don't understeand why these expensive and tricky devise (Grigri headliner) when you can have a Mammut Smart for the half or a third of the price. Same safety, easier to use and smoother when to lower the climber. I really loved my Grigri but I don't use it anymore only for top rope and with newby climbers.
The Smart is decent, I have one, but quite a different device to a GriGri style one. Good devices but personally I don't think they're as good for holding falls, redpointing type stuff as GriGri style device.
@@JBMountainSkills I think the opposite. Assisted tuber-style devices like the Mammut is far more indicated for redpointing and lead climbing in general, but it's a personal choice of course. I used a lot my Grigri 3, but I won't come back to used it after I tried adn bought my Mammut Smart tbh. The way you can give rope is smoother and faster than the Grigri. The point is that the Grigri is an amazing device, but you need a long train to use it properly and even when you are trained you can have some trouble from time to time and if you don't use it for a while you need to "recover" your Grigri skills. Nothing of this things happend with the Smart, it's plug & play. I don't understeand what you mean with "not good for holding falls": Mammut Smart works exatly like a Grigri, is safe like a Grigri.
Very nice video. Does it have the safety locking up when the lever is pulled all the way like the grigri + does? It's a bit annoying for experienced users but personally I like that as an anti-panic feature for beginners.
By showing how it locked up its pretty clear it won't work for LRS... Unfortunately, the advantage och slack payout over a grigri is not worth the lost functionality for multipitch etc. Thx for the review
I don't think it would make a great LRS device. Even the upside down grigri+ in tope rope mode can sometimes slip quite a bit before braking (depending on rope diameter). This device could be way way worse. Feeding slack smoothly is only one part of the LRS equation.
Nice video as always, however personally I won't be buying one, I've been using beal birdie since they were first available, it pays out much better than a gri gri, like your comparison in the video, much like paying out on an atc etc, really smooth, brakes really well , easy to lower, easy to ab on and a fraction of the price . I understand there are costs involved with development and manufacturing, but £110 for a belay device? Its all getting a bit out of hand
I like assisted braking devices, because of the hope that it might still bite and catch the climber if something happens to the belayer, and they cannot hold the break strand, rockfall, heart attack, bear attack etc... 😂,
Very fair minded and sensible review Jez. Nice one. I guesstimate that 90 percent or more of Grigri use is on single pitch bolted climbing (indoor and outside), and it sounds like the Neox might be slightly better for that? I've been using a grigri for at least 20 years and i can still short rope partners with it - normally i can come up with an excuse why i was distracted, tripped over someone else's dog for example! 😂 But it does still happen - likewise with my megajul on single or double ropes. I have on occasion gone over to a more classic ATC style device when a mate is going for a serious red point attempt, just to make sure that doesn't happen. And it sounds like the neox might avoid that while giving all the other advantages of a grigri?
Thanks Toby. I think the NEOX could be the best option single pitch sport climbing. It's worth checking out the video James at Outside has done too for a slightly different view point. James describes himself as a trad climber who sometimes sport climbs and ends up short roping his partners every now and then. I think the NEOX is going to be ideal for people switching between trad and sport as the bealying with the NEOX is much more similar to that of belaying with an ATC / Reverso etc, especially paired with a not too chunky rope. If you belay well, it's genuinely hard to short rope someone IMO. In my personal climbing I'm a sport climber that occasionally trad climbs, so a GriGri is second nature to me. For people like me I'd not rush out and buy a NEOX, but I'd definitely consider one if that person is due a new device.
For 40 € and 105 gr, you can get a much better tool which is both right and left handed !! I've been using a Grigri for 20 years, but 6 months ago I wanted to try the Edelrid JUL² for sport climbing. It took me 3 weeks to understand how to use it properly (= NOT how Edelrid is showing in the manual !!) With no cam, no mechanism, no closing part, no moving part and no handle, just this simple very strong piece of steel of the JUL² is doing exactly the same job as an assisted belay device. The only trick to use it safely and properly is to not use it as Edelrid is showing in its manual to give slack. To give slack very quickly and easily, you need to feed the rope in the JUL² as you would with an ATC, but to prevent it from locking automatically, you simply have to feed the rope in the JUL² a fraction of time BEFORE you're pulling the climber's side of the rope in the air ! If you do feed the rope in the JUL² and pull the climber's side of the rope in the same motion, indeed the rope will lock automatically, but if you anticipate and feed the rope to the device first, then you can easily pull a meter of rope on the climber's side instantly ! I'm using a 10,5 mm rope but when used properly, this technique never engage the autolocking mechanism. However, if you do lock the mechanism because you did both hands movement in a single motion / in the same time, it's no big deal : keep your hand firmly on the safe side of the rope (never let go indeed), just bring it closer to the JUL² to give in advance some rope slack between your hand and the device ; and with your other hand (the one holding the climber's side of the rope), just grab the JUL² with 2 fingers and simply pull it up 2 centimeters to unlock it and in the same upward motion, grab the rope and pull it up to give the slack to the climber. It's a very simple yet effective technique. The autolocking of the JUL² works exactly as well as a Grigri or an Eddy, so I really don't see the point of using a fancy, more expensive and heavier gear with multiple parts when the simple strong piece of steel of the JUL² is doing exactly the same for less weight, less money and absolutely no moving parts and no mechanism... Just my opinion.
I’m a big fan of the Edelrid devices. The Giga Jul is my go to trad device. That said, personally I much prefer a GriGri style device for sport. I think it’s super rare to come across a bad belay device, it’s just a matter of finding a device that works for you 😊
Looks like over engineering. The Mad Rock lifeguard has the right ammount of tension. I've been using it for 6 years, allways like an ATC, feeds rope smoothly and catches when falling. Didn't try the Neox though. Thanks for the video, really enjoyed it.
Glad you liked it! It's been a long time since I tried the Lifeguard and I didnt use it long term but I think the NEOX pays out with less unwanted lock ups when belaying ATC style... but don't take that as gospel, it's been to long to give a solid opinion!
Mmmm, not quite... The Birdie is more like a grigrii than like a Lifeguard. Its very little the difference, but the Lifeguard I use it like an ATC, my friends with Birdie ise it like a Grigri. The Lifeguard has a smaller cam size and a little more tension to lock.
By the sounds of this it sounds like an overly complicated black diamond pilot. Probably better for lowering than a pilot, but much heavier and finickier.
I have a Pilot, it's good for the price, but I think the NEOX is a lot better personally. All devices have their pros and cons, the Pilot is a bit of a bargain in comparison and I'm well aware the NEOX is pretty expensive.
Idk, it seems pretty useless to me. It seems that it has same safety properties as Reverso. Or have i missed something? Its quite misleading calling it assisted breaking device, since it doesn't really help to break the fall, does it? If you dont hold the break side for whatever reason (rockfall, bee sting ...), the climber is going to the floor. More like assited hanging device
When a leader falls you will feel a much greater force through the brake side with a standard belay device than with an assisted belay device. This is what the assistance really is and makes it much safer and easier to hold a falling lead climber.
From what I gathered here and from the Petzl video, the Neox will not engage if the belayer gets knocked out by rockfall or has a seizure or is handicapped by any reason. This makes it an inferior belay device in my opinion.
I dont understand why they would make it so simmilar to a Grigri, i can easily imagine someone using this thinking it will automatically catch a fall..
ATCs are great bits of kit, but I’d always chose an assisted braking device for sport or indoors personally. Most of my sport is redpointing which involves a lot of dangling on the rope, so an ATC would be a chore for whoever is belaying.
@@JBMountainSkills That's a fair point. I'm not overly familiar with the gri gri so I haven't learnt to trust one.....moving parts can fail is all I worry about when I use it
For people asking about the Petzl video I used bits of: campaigns.petzl.com/climbing/en-us/
It'd be cool if they could add an option to it where you can lock the wheel into place so that it's basically a normal grigri, for use in top belaying. Then it really could be a one size fits all assisted breaking device!
That's a great idea actually.
It could be Neox+ :)
@@lezeroq yeah I was thinking the same thing!
Thanks for your balanced and down-to-earth videos. Cuts through the noise to the important points, in an authoritative but humble way.
Thanks for the kind words!
Thnnks JB. Looking forward to the Edelrid Pinch video.
Hopefully won't be too long!
Comparison of Pinch Vs Neox would be helpful!
seems like very different devices TBH
Thanks
Thanks so much!
The fact Petzl felt the need to make everything orange, including the carrot cracks me up.
Must admit, I was a little disappointed they didn't send me an orange one 😂
Every climbing brand has that one signature color!
My harness is blue, the rest is orange😂
As a matter of fact, the carrots are not there because they are orange but because of Alex Megos, the climber in the video. There is a quote of him, because he is a strong climber and vegan " Carrots for power!" and I guess it should just show how he prepares for a hard climg, like getting his stuff ready, put on his shoes and eating a carrot, then he´s ready to go and the neox is ready to belay XD
Thx JB! After your review I have decided to pick one up and give it a try :-)
Great, hope you like it!
It's so close to the ultimate device. If the rotating drum had an internal speed break like the revo it would be perfect. That way even if you for some reason let go of the brake side it would lock up if the rope was moving too fast. While still having the grigri camming style braking
I can imagine they build one in the future, it would be even safer version, what grigri+ is for grigri that would be for this device
Like a gri gri with an ASAP inside!!
I think the Revo isn't this massive, because Wild Country wanted it to be.
My guess is that Petzl wants to get the Neox certified as the official belay device of climbing competitions and the Olympics, since they currently use a tube belay device and this could add some safety while still belaying similarly. That would be a huge boon for them. Otherwise I really only see this being a gym/single pitch device like you said, especially since it's heavier than the GriGri+, but that's all the climbing a lot of people do anyway so I imagine it will sell well. I'll be waiting until I find $100 I don't need, as I can lead belay with the GriGri just fine and it is such a versatile device for everything from gym climbing, to multipitch simul climbing.
Interesting thought... do you think that the belayers will have time to get accustomed to the device? And they won't be able to lower the climbers as they do now.
Cheers, always appreciate your nuanced take on kit!
Glad you liked it!
Thanks for the review, Jez! I picked up a Neox from Outside in Hathersage yesterday morning and really looking forward to trying it out :)
Hope you like using it!
New video from JB! Awesome! 🎉
👊
This was super helpful! Thank you!
You're welcome!
Thanks for the video JB, helps a lot!
My pleasure 👊
Thanks for the honest review! Interesting product, but I stick to my grigri for now.
That'd be my opinion, but check one out for a play if you get the chance!
Yeah, I can see the point of the Pinch, but not this - comparing it to a Grigri that is.
@@JoachimMilan1 I don't love my pinch. I like putting the grigri on the rope before clipping in, it's an all in one with the pinch. Perhaps I'm just too aclimated to the grigri
@@gravyblue so u think the grigi is better? How is giving slack is the grigi better?
What about no carabiner is that not cool?
Can u also clip the pinch to ur harness (not belay loop) without a carabiner?
@jeanpaulorl giving slack is the same. It attaches to
the belay loop. I find the attachment fiddly. Also buddy check is compromised because my mates don't know what they're looking at
How does the device distinguish between a fall and "paying slack very quickly"? In other words: are there situations where this device locks when you don't want it to lock? Compared to a Grigri, I always liked the Jul^2 better because of its simplicity, steel being better for the rope, not causing entangling in the rope (sorry, no native speaker).
Whilst the NEOX isn’t perfect it locks when you don’t want it to so much less than a GriGri, in that regard it’s a lot better.
I highly recommend the Mad Rock Lifeguard. It's similar to the Birdie but lighter. It pays out like an atc and rarely cams when feeding out rope but still cams on a lead fall. It's also maintenance free and has a lifetime guarantee. After 5 years of constant use, the spring in the handle broke but Mad Rock are replacing it for free (with a proof of purchase). The only downside for me is it has a small handle for lowering and have on the odd occasion pinched my fingers against the rope. Definitely my go-to assisted braking belay.
Thanks for the review. 10:08 I was wondering what would happen if the belayer is not holding onto the break side. Also if it's not great for top belay, it's really got very limited uses, but for what it's designed for it seems great.
Slightly tricky to answer. Will it lock up if the belayer isn't holding on? Sometimes! Petzl have some video media coming out that talks about that a little.
very calm and professional assessment. Very useful video. Thank you!
My pleasure!
Hi JB, I have for the last cazillion years been using ATC type devices. Occasionally used Grigri's in gyms and with friends, but never got hooked. Last year I got a Vergo based on briefly using a Cinch. I've gotten over the short roping tendency but still find lowering tricky. Do you have an opinion about the Vergo relative to the Neox? Also, do you think folding/twisting the rope over the side of any device hurts the rope? Thanks, Randy
Imho both Cinch and Vergo are needlessly dangerous devices that have no passive braking whatsoever, since the rope goes straight through. I've seen it rope burn people's hands in low friction situations where the cam doesn't engage. After googleing for incidents, I got rid of mine.
Another great vid. Thanks!
Thanks!
Rating for 11mm might be to cover: Petzl's Axis (Semi-Static Rope) eg abbing in. :-j
I’d like to see your take of the Neox vs the Jul2 , smart and ATC pilot . I find the benefits are that they are cheaper, lighter, have no moving parts and yet have the same functionality as the neox.
I’m new to lead, and fairly new to ropes to be honest lol I find that the GriGri can be tough to feed with the camming with the thumb method if everything isn’t just right. The rope needs to be middle of road wide. The rope needs to be clean. The climber needs to climb at a pace you’re comfortable with. Very easy to short rope. This seems like it would be a great option. It may be best or only used with the flossing method, but it seems like a great way to learn and a device that would be better for larger ropes, slightly dirty ropes, the device being slightly dirty. Seems like the device would be more forgiving. What do you think? Seems like it would be good to be good at both standard GriGri and Neox, but seems like a great tech advancement.
Thanks for the review! What's the thickest rope you used? Over here, we often times have very fluffy 10 mm ropes in gyms, where it's not easy to pay out slack with a Jul2 or Smart. I wonder if the Neox is any good there. I can totally see it with my 9.5 dry treated rope but I wonder about thick and fluffy ropes. Thanks!
For lead climbing, well used ie. a bit chunky 9.8, for top roping well used 10.5 gym ropes.
@@JBMountainSkills Thanks for the answer! Did anyone try to pay out rope with 10 mm + ropes?
Afraid not, sorry.
Strange that you are having problems with fluffy 10mm gym ropes and the Jul2. I have that exact same situation very often, I tried Grigri, Clickup, Smart (2.0), Fish, Jul2, Revo and I found the Jul2 to be the easiest. If you put it into a position where both strands of the rope go out parallely to pay out slack, you can do it really fast without worrying that it locks unwanted. Key is to return to the basic position immediately for the brake assist to work in case of a fall ruclips.net/video/zPni_p2odzc/видео.html
Hi, how often does it lock up when catching a lead fall compared to a grigri? Grigri locks up automatically most of the time (without it pulling on the rope hand), is this like a 20%, 50% or 90%?
Every time in my experience so far, same as a GriGri.
@@JBMountainSkills Nice, good to know, thanks.
From petzl video it seemed like in never locks by itself. I know they wanted to emphasize the fact that people should not rely on the system and should always hold the rope, but most people now think its just a more expensive fancy atc with very unreliable locking. So thanks for clarifying :)
Is the Petzl belayer at 2:09 rolling the brake rope far enough up the lip? If I were tutoring a new Grigri user I'd certainly tell them to pull the rope a little closer to them, so it runs over the centre of the lip.
Nice video, where can i find the megos video you use throughout this?
Glad you liked it. It'll be out in full tomorrow on the Petzl channels :)
The revo is a good device for the combination heavy belayer and light climber. I (70kg) use it to lead belay kids and I can catch them very softly (softer than with for example a ClickUp, Smart, GriGri, Pinch,...)
Good info, thanks!
take care: in case of light climbers and thick or used ropes, it can happen, that the rotation speed of the revo device is not fast enough (below 4 m/s) to engage the locking mode due to too much friction in the system. Therefore, the revo basically behaves like a tube in these situations (light climber with some friction in the system).
@@Oliver-rg9oh I know to never ever let go of the brake rope. I learnt to belay on the munter hitch. Then the first device I used was a normal tube.
If you handle the revo correctly the break should never engage. It's there as back up for an otherwise normal tube (altough heavy).
@@ralfrussel1950 true, my statement was more related to the fact, that in case of light climbers with friction in the system the revo can truly behaves as a tube without back up. I tested this multiple times with kids, since I also liked the way to dynamically belay with this device similar to a tube. However, once I found out, that it is basically a tube in these situations, I am not using the revo anymore for kids, since it suggest you have a back up but in reality you don't (in these scenarios). I think it is just important to know the limitations of the device.
@@Oliver-rg9oh Ok, I have never had this happen. But my setting with kids is the gym with newish ropes. So, good to know and I have to do some testing. Does it not engage due to not reaching 4m/s?
I had no idea lead rope soloing was a semi popular thing. Seems like a bad idea, but at least its not free soloing!
I was sold on the concept but given its heavier and pricier I think I’ll just live with my “finely honed/weathered” grigri skills :) but there’s one thing I could be convinced of. When I abb off (or lower a long route) with the grig mine get super hot and I’m convinced it’s marked the rope a few times , does this generate less heat (assuming the wheel giving lower friction?) and therefore be better for the rope?
I don’t have a definite answer but when it locks the wheel doesn’t move, so I don’t think there’d be much difference between the GriGri and NEOX in your situation.
Petzl neox vs edelrid pinch plssssss..
Or just how the pinch is! ;
That video is on the to do list for sure but as a very brief one liner: Pinch is probably a better all rounder, the NEOX is probably better at what it does well.
@@JBMountainSkills fuck :(
I have a grigi 3.
I just orderd a neox :(
Should i have gone with the pinch?
Kann u quickly tell me the pros and cons?
Maybe ill contact the seller and order the pinch.
Depends what you're after. The Pinch is more of an all rounder. Pays out pretty smooth, but not NEOX smooth. You can however use it for belaying from above, and it has switchable anti panic if that's something you want.
I'd say the Pinch is more of a direct replacement for a GriGri, the NEOX a slight specialisation.
@@jeanpaulorlI bought the Pinch and got to test the Neox this weekend. For sport climbing the Neox feels more convenient and the only advantage the Pinch has is handing out rope super fast due to the bigger reach without a carabiner. For multipitch climbing I‘ll stick to a reverso since I frequently use double ropes.
@@JBMountainSkills how about top rope solo is the pinch any good? Or is the grigi 3 better or maybe even the grigi neox? Is the lov3 better overall for top eope solo?
What I was hoping to find out in this video was how does it work feeding slack compared to a tubular assisted braking device? I know you've used the Giga Jul as well as a lot of other tubular assisted braking devices. Would you say that this one is easier for lead climbing or would you stick with the tubular style?
Good question. Feeding out is actually more slick than an ATC style device I think. However clearly it can still lock up GriGri style when you’re trying to give out slack. That happens much more infrequently than with a GriGri but there is still a learning curve to get the timing and angles right. I think someone used to an ATC will get the hang of smooth belaying more quickly with a NEOX than a GriGri.
Makes sense to introduce the rolling cam given their experience with the ASAP.
Cool device, thanks for the video! Seems like a decent improvement on the GriGri for sport climbing.
Super looking forward to the Pinch video! As someone with shorter arms, having the device higher on my body (without a carabiner adding distance), it looks like it will be much easier to manage the brake hand with the Pinch. Really interested to see more about how it works in practice.
My pleasure!
I think you'll notice a difference using the Pinch clipped directly to your harness.
I see a lot of people in the comments wanting an "ultimate" device. I personally thing Petzl is doing the right thing putting the onus on the belayer to actually stop a fall. Climbers need to be more attentive, not have a failsafe for when they decide to stop paying attention
Yeah, people get quite wound up about belay devices! I think it'll be a good option for some people.
Is the Petzl video you showed clips of available publicly anywhere? I’d love to see their full training on the device.
Out today!
I guess it's really exhausting for toproping. Even the grigri slips more than I'd like. But seems like a nice improvement for lead
i use a modified grigri as an arborist, climbing trees and passing branches while resetting my flip line. its much simpler and has way less failure points than the zigzag. downside is i have to fight slack out of it...
any opinions about this new tool in above application? will it readily lock and stay locked under less than my full body weight?
Me too , watching...
How is it for abseiling/rapelling, would it catch you as consistently as a gri gri if you let go of the rope?
A GriGri would be a better choice imo.
Tie an occasional knot below you x
Nice video! At 9:18, you say "On the website, it does have little symbols on what the devices are for, and with the GriGri it shows belaying a leader, it shows belaying from above as well". Is this on petzl's site? I couldn't find it anywhere, nor in the GriGri technical notice, which makes me doubt it's usefullness as a device used for belaying from above.
GriGri info: www.petzl.com/INT/en/Sport/Belaying-multi-pitch-routes-on-single-rope-with-a-GRIGRI-/1000
I realised the bit I mentioned wasnt on the site but on some release info for the NEOX, which should be out tomorrow.
@@JBMountainSkills Thank you!
Where's that petzl video you showed clips of? I can't find it anywhere
Might have to wait until tomorrow when they release it properly (hope I don't get in trouble 😂)
Don't worry I won't tell them. Great video, thanks!
Did you notice that the wheel feels kind of janky as it moves from side to side and there is a good amount of friction keeping the wheel from freely spinning?
thanks for the info on belaying from above. made my decision much easier! this is too niche a device for my climbing needs.
No worries, glad it was useful! If you are after a new device, the Pinch could fit your needs, video coming in the not too distant future.
Q: would it be possible for lefties to swing it round to opposite with handle facing other way for them instead, and lower sort of backwards?
Hi JB. Great review, thanks for this. Would you say that this device is Ok for abseiling?
Ok yes, but it wouldn’t be my number one choice.
would you make a comparison of the neox and the edelrid pinch?
That video is in the works, just need to use the Pinch a bit more.
What would you recommend for someone like myself. This or a grigri as a first assisted breaking device. Lots of boldering but new to sport climing. Inside and a little outdoors but all quite new with ropes. What do you reckon?
I'm always wary of sounding biased on reviews, but honestly, as a new to sport / indoor climbing climber going for a first device, I'd chose this NEOX.
Get the Beal birdie for less money, it’s better than the grigri and safer(for gumbies) than the heox
@@Deckageskate666I wouldn’t say the birdie is better per se, or safer really. Just slightly different and still a decent device. Different people prefer different devices.
This looks cool as hell, but I'm wondering, since the rope goes through so easily, can it slip in the case when the belayer lets go with the breaking hand? I know it's incorrect use, and I know gri gri can also slip, but it's very unlikely, at least I've never seen it.
Yes.
A slightly cynical take (no pun intended) but I'd argue the Grigri is popular because it makes the belaying a lot easier when someone is working a route - once the fall is over it's trivial to hold them with the device locked. How did this fare? Once the device is braking the rope it's essentially locked until you release the device? Not quite take your hand off the rope but probably ok rummaging through a pack for snacks/the guidebook?
No discernible difference once it’s locked. Like the GriGri it’s to certified for allowing you to go hands free without a back up knot, but your not expending any energy to grip the rope, the NEOX is doing all the work.
where is the "Neox has no brain" video from? I can't find it on petzl's youtube channel but it seems like a fun video to watch
Out today!
I know you love the gigajul, have you ever tried the CT Alpine Up? Looks pretty tempting right now and apparently more efficient than the gigajul, and feels like a grigri while on rappel or belaying from what I've heard. What did you think about it if you tried it, and if you didn't, any reason why not? Would you give it a go? ^^ I really want to try it. Best thing for me compare to a grigri, or the new pinch, is having guide mode and two ropes options...
@@RoamingMustang it’s ok, pretty big and chunky though, to the point it would put me off carrying it multi pitching.
@@JBMountainSkills Hum I see, I need to find a way to get it into my hands and have a look. Thanks for the feedback!
Is it fair to summarize the neox as simply a less grabby grigri?
I’m interested in this thing. I know I’m kind of an outlier here but I actually HATE the grigri. I’m newer to sport climbing. Primarily a boulderer. Got the tube concept fairly quickly but the grigri just feels so awkward. And no. You cannot change my mind.
You're not alone! Plenty of people hate GriGris, not me, but plenty. I genuinely think the NEOX could be a device they'll / you'll really like.
I'm no different to anyone, the grigri was a learning curve way back when, but when you have them dialled they're brilliant. I completely get why some people prefer other assisted braking devices. Sport on a tube style device isn't something I'd chose though unless I forgot my GriGri!
I'm really curious about this new device, but the price is really high. And I don't understeand why these expensive and tricky devise (Grigri headliner) when you can have a Mammut Smart for the half or a third of the price. Same safety, easier to use and smoother when to lower the climber.
I really loved my Grigri but I don't use it anymore only for top rope and with newby climbers.
The Smart is decent, I have one, but quite a different device to a GriGri style one. Good devices but personally I don't think they're as good for holding falls, redpointing type stuff as GriGri style device.
@@JBMountainSkills I think the opposite. Assisted tuber-style devices like the Mammut is far more indicated for redpointing and lead climbing in general, but it's a personal choice of course. I used a lot my Grigri 3, but I won't come back to used it after I tried adn bought my Mammut Smart tbh. The way you can give rope is smoother and faster than the Grigri. The point is that the Grigri is an amazing device, but you need a long train to use it properly and even when you are trained you can have some trouble from time to time and if you don't use it for a while you need to "recover" your Grigri skills. Nothing of this things happend with the Smart, it's plug & play.
I don't understeand what you mean with "not good for holding falls": Mammut Smart works exatly like a Grigri, is safe like a Grigri.
@@jibril20facceit doesn’t work exactly like a GriGri, different concept.
Like I say, whatever works for you 💪
I need to learn how to rope climb solo. Can’t deal with the excuses, when I need a belayer.
Very nice video. Does it have the safety locking up when the lever is pulled all the way like the grigri + does? It's a bit annoying for experienced users but personally I like that as an anti-panic feature for beginners.
I think this is a lead climbing device so I v much doubt beginners are their target here
No anti panic, which for me is a plus.
@@mattevans9878 I think beginners are a key market with the NEOX, as in new to leading type beginners.
By showing how it locked up its pretty clear it won't work for LRS...
Unfortunately, the advantage och slack payout over a grigri is not worth the lost functionality for multipitch etc.
Thx for the review
There's always backup knots to wake the thing up x
I don't think it would make a great LRS device. Even the upside down grigri+ in tope rope mode can sometimes slip quite a bit before braking (depending on rope diameter). This device could be way way worse. Feeding slack smoothly is only one part of the LRS equation.
holistic as always
Cheers.
Nice video as always, however personally I won't be buying one, I've been using beal birdie since they were first available, it pays out much better than a gri gri, like your comparison in the video, much like paying out on an atc etc, really smooth, brakes really well , easy to lower, easy to ab on and a fraction of the price . I understand there are costs involved with development and manufacturing, but £110 for a belay device? Its all getting a bit out of hand
I like assisted braking devices, because of the hope that it might still bite and catch the climber if something happens to the belayer, and they cannot hold the break strand, rockfall, heart attack, bear attack etc... 😂,
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Very fair minded and sensible review Jez. Nice one. I guesstimate that 90 percent or more of Grigri use is on single pitch bolted climbing (indoor and outside), and it sounds like the Neox might be slightly better for that? I've been using a grigri for at least 20 years and i can still short rope partners with it - normally i can come up with an excuse why i was distracted, tripped over someone else's dog for example! 😂 But it does still happen - likewise with my megajul on single or double ropes. I have on occasion gone over to a more classic ATC style device when a mate is going for a serious red point attempt, just to make sure that doesn't happen. And it sounds like the neox might avoid that while giving all the other advantages of a grigri?
Thanks Toby. I think the NEOX could be the best option single pitch sport climbing. It's worth checking out the video James at Outside has done too for a slightly different view point. James describes himself as a trad climber who sometimes sport climbs and ends up short roping his partners every now and then. I think the NEOX is going to be ideal for people switching between trad and sport as the bealying with the NEOX is much more similar to that of belaying with an ATC / Reverso etc, especially paired with a not too chunky rope. If you belay well, it's genuinely hard to short rope someone IMO.
In my personal climbing I'm a sport climber that occasionally trad climbs, so a GriGri is second nature to me. For people like me I'd not rush out and buy a NEOX, but I'd definitely consider one if that person is due a new device.
GriGri Plus for the win and for the guide plate category the DMM Pivot is king. 💪
Did anybody catch the names of the crag?
My bit was at Fedw Fawr, White Beach sector. The Petzl shots were Margalef but not sure which sector.
For 40 € and 105 gr, you can get a much better tool which is both right and left handed !!
I've been using a Grigri for 20 years, but 6 months ago I wanted to try the Edelrid JUL² for sport climbing.
It took me 3 weeks to understand how to use it properly (= NOT how Edelrid is showing in the manual !!)
With no cam, no mechanism, no closing part, no moving part and no handle, just this simple very strong piece of steel of the JUL² is doing exactly the same job as an assisted belay device.
The only trick to use it safely and properly is to not use it as Edelrid is showing in its manual to give slack.
To give slack very quickly and easily, you need to feed the rope in the JUL² as you would with an ATC, but to prevent it from locking automatically, you simply have to feed the rope in the JUL² a fraction of time BEFORE you're pulling the climber's side of the rope in the air ! If you do feed the rope in the JUL² and pull the climber's side of the rope in the same motion, indeed the rope will lock automatically, but if you anticipate and feed the rope to the device first, then you can easily pull a meter of rope on the climber's side instantly ! I'm using a 10,5 mm rope but when used properly, this technique never engage the autolocking mechanism.
However, if you do lock the mechanism because you did both hands movement in a single motion / in the same time, it's no big deal : keep your hand firmly on the safe side of the rope (never let go indeed), just bring it closer to the JUL² to give in advance some rope slack between your hand and the device ; and with your other hand (the one holding the climber's side of the rope), just grab the JUL² with 2 fingers and simply pull it up 2 centimeters to unlock it and in the same upward motion, grab the rope and pull it up to give the slack to the climber. It's a very simple yet effective technique.
The autolocking of the JUL² works exactly as well as a Grigri or an Eddy, so I really don't see the point of using a fancy, more expensive and heavier gear with multiple parts when the simple strong piece of steel of the JUL² is doing exactly the same for less weight, less money and absolutely no moving parts and no mechanism...
Just my opinion.
I’m a big fan of the Edelrid devices. The Giga Jul is my go to trad device. That said, personally I much prefer a GriGri style device for sport.
I think it’s super rare to come across a bad belay device, it’s just a matter of finding a device that works for you 😊
@@JBMountainSkills Absolutely ! Thank you for the great content of your videos ! All the best !
My pleasure 👊
It looks very similar to a grigri. Don't hope anyone will mistake it for one... :P
That new sirroco is looking nice 😩
Looks like over engineering. The Mad Rock lifeguard has the right ammount of tension. I've been using it for 6 years, allways like an ATC, feeds rope smoothly and catches when falling.
Didn't try the Neox though.
Thanks for the video, really enjoyed it.
Glad you liked it!
It's been a long time since I tried the Lifeguard and I didnt use it long term but I think the NEOX pays out with less unwanted lock ups when belaying ATC style... but don't take that as gospel, it's been to long to give a solid opinion!
The lifeguard is basically the birdie but by mad rock.
Mmmm, not quite... The Birdie is more like a grigrii than like a Lifeguard. Its very little the difference, but the Lifeguard I use it like an ATC, my friends with Birdie ise it like a Grigri.
The Lifeguard has a smaller cam size and a little more tension to lock.
By the sounds of this it sounds like an overly complicated black diamond pilot. Probably better for lowering than a pilot, but much heavier and finickier.
I have a Pilot, it's good for the price, but I think the NEOX is a lot better personally. All devices have their pros and cons, the Pilot is a bit of a bargain in comparison and I'm well aware the NEOX is pretty expensive.
Idk, it seems pretty useless to me. It seems that it has same safety properties as Reverso. Or have i missed something? Its quite misleading calling it assisted breaking device, since it doesn't really help to break the fall, does it? If you dont hold the break side for whatever reason (rockfall, bee sting ...), the climber is going to the floor. More like assited hanging device
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@@JBMountainSkillsit does thanks 🙂
When a leader falls you will feel a much greater force through the brake side with a standard belay device than with an assisted belay device. This is what the assistance really is and makes it much safer and easier to hold a falling lead climber.
From what I gathered here and from the Petzl video, the Neox will not engage if the belayer gets knocked out by rockfall or has a seizure or is handicapped by any reason. This makes it an inferior belay device in my opinion.
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It is indeed EN15151-1 rated so it indeed will catch a climber in a factor 2 fall if the belayed is incapacitated.
I dont understand why they would make it so simmilar to a Grigri, i can easily imagine someone using this thinking it will automatically catch a fall..
So petzl finally has a device that feeds like the birdie. Good for them, I’ll stick with the superior device….. hint: it’s not the heox 😂
I agree, I bet it's not a heox 😂
I'll stick with an ATC, simple, light and 1/4 of the price
ATCs are great bits of kit, but I’d always chose an assisted braking device for sport or indoors personally. Most of my sport is redpointing which involves a lot of dangling on the rope, so an ATC would be a chore for whoever is belaying.
@@JBMountainSkills That's a fair point. I'm not overly familiar with the gri gri so I haven't learnt to trust one.....moving parts can fail is all I worry about when I use it
c'mon let's talk about PINCH from Edelrid!!
Patience! Need to use mine a bit more then I’ll put a video a out 😊
its a reevo in grigri shell lol
The wheel inside works differently to the Revo wheel.
Very disappointed with the answer but not with the honesty.. I would much rather buy and try knowing I’m running my own risk… so thank you
My pleasure!