@Mike-oz4cv its just waiting to happen when you go from 0 board climving and regularly trying to push grades on it(having climbed for a relatively short amount of time). It's something we've all been through, especially after the euphoria you get from the initial gains you get from learning how to board climb (you learn how make the most of your power, contact strength, moving quickly and precisely etc.). You become enamoured with the progress and then inevitably you push it too far but that's part of slowly figuring out your own limits as well so in the long term its an important and natural step in progression
the moon board is just highlighting a lot of weaknesses in your climbing all at once - and like you said, it is a specific style that you really need to learn. The main things I noticed missing were 1. you were hopping on the board with NO PLAN - you didnt know where any of the feet were and you had no plan for what sequence you wanted to do. This is very common because I think people assume that because there are lights it will be easy to read. 2. Your footwork and body tension on bad feet is lacking a lot, and the moonboard punshies that. The good news is climbing on the board for a few months will greatly improve your climbing. Remember to stay postive and keep postive self talk... you cannnn do the move.
I've been climbing since 2012 and I noticed one thing that people don't talk about too often. Grip genetics will make difference when you can start using 40 degrees moonboard for EFFECTIVE training. I'll take 2 examples from IRL to be objective: 1. 56kg guy, 180cm tall, after 1 year of climbing his grip strength test showed 90kg (world class). He could easily climb on moonboard after 1 year of climbing, using it as an effective trianing tool and could campus tiny crimps on 40 degrees walls. 2. 65kg guy, 175cm tall, after 1 year of climbing his grip strength test showed 50kg. He could barely hold holds on moonboard even with using legs. After 8 years he could finally climb easily on moonboard. But not as easily as that 1st guy after first year. It is what it is but important thing is: not everyone can hop on moonboard instantly. It's just numbers, we know some people are not able to generate as much grip force. And you cannot change it because it depends on your biomechanics, small differences make very big grip strength difference. If you train both those guys to use even 90% of their muscle fibers in forearms, one guy will just suck at holding holds compared to the other guy. :D Just biomechanics, nothing to be mad about. Applies to many other sports too but in different areas. :) For 2nd guy it was ineffective to train on moonboard after 2-3 years of climbing. Why? Because that guy just struggled so much holding holds that he could not focus on movement at all, and was not able to use other muscles properly too when his all brain power was focused on forearms. Secondly that guy had max effort doing single moves on moonboard 40 degrees angle. Which also means that that guy got tired after 1, 2 or 3 boulders and session over lol. The first guy could do 10 boulders and learn a lot of stuff doing that and still go climb hard climbs outside of moonboard in the same session because he can climb easiest moonboard climbs not-at-his-limit. What to do with that? 1st guy of course can just use moonboard almost instantly no problem, of course limiting amount of moonboard sessions (to avoid injuries, strong grip means also bigger risk of injury because your tendons and other structures are not adapted yet to those forces). 2nd guy needed to first do some fingerboard hangs, some normal climbs, some sessions focused on learning to use bigger percentage of foearm muscle fibers. And also probably reduce to minimum healthy body fat(for male usually 10-11% should be safe minimum of body fat, for women should be around 3% higher afaik). What I mean is - if you're gifted with amazing grip, this tool is instantly for you. If you're gifted with super bad genetics, you'll need years to even have proper reason for this. If you're in the middle you'll probably need 2-4 years before making those 40 degrees sessions properly. Also it is important to notice that 20-30 degrees vs 40 degrees climbing is very different when it comes to technique so if you train on 30 degrees to get grip, and then transition to 40 degrees, you will need to put some time into learning how to coordinate movement on 40 degrees properly and it could take long time. :) I think I managed to stay objective. I hope it is informative enough. :) I've been on weak grip genetics and I know how it feels when genetic freak appears. :D It feels stupid when some new climber does what you cannot even touch after 10+ years of climbing. But on the positive side - weak grip means you'll take more time to get to those board sessions and you will avoid nasty finger injuries. And you will have a lot of fun learning how to use heelhooks, toehooks, pull hard with your toes, drop knees and stuff. You'll be annoyed with those strong grip guys from time to time but you'll still enjoy climbing and at some point you'll be ready for that 40 degree moonboard session where you can just finally do 10 boulders before you get tired. :) That's why climbing is great, but we should not make people think that they suck at climbing if they suck at board climbs. :D They will of course never do that 8c in Magic Wood but who cares, as long as they have fun and learn stuff and get stronger on their own level. ;)
Was going to mention what you said at the end. With the incline, the thing that you seem to struggle with is keeping tension - you sag, then when you move you lose your feet. Good training for that is finding a bunch of holds on a steep incline and go really slowly through them, one move at a time, trying to keep yourself from sagging as much as possible. Careful foot placements, you don't want to be "loose" at any point. Once you teach yourself how that feels, it gets easier to find elsewhere.
I’ve trained a lot on the 2016 moonboard, it definitely reflects outdoor bouldering grades more than indoor climbing. High intensity, crimpy, short climbs with little room to do anything other than the intended beta.
This is correct gym climbing grades are soft everyone knows that moonboard is like an average of all outdoor bouldering grades. This dude is clearly like a v3-4 boulderer barely. It’s not sandbagged stop whining, try bouldering in Yosemite if you want to see sandbagged.
Agreed. To add on, I feel like the Moonboard often forces awkward hold usage - despite being put in a bad position, you still need to figure out how to pull hard. That's more like outdoor climbing, since in gym setting, holds are usually (not always) set in close-to-ideal orientations and positions.
i really respect your approach to climbing mike. It can be super hard to progress in something as complex as climbing, so this is really inspiring to a lot of people
Controversial opinion perhaps but I think the 2024 moonboard grades aren't sandbagged that much, and closely reflect the level of effort I put in on blocs outdoors. With the exception of that 7A that Aidan Roberts put up (under sam prior's account) called Str8 off dins dome. That thing is beyond nails for the grade
Yes gyms are mostly really soft, i climb 7a/7a+ indoors, outdoors its like 6c-ish, but grade is just a metric of progress for me so i dont mind have kind of like 2 scales for both enviroments, as long as it is consistant
fully agree I think board grades are representative of outdoor grades in the sense that if you never climb outside you will struggle to match your indoor grade which likely isn't as accurate as a climb that's been there for 40 years so it's not necessarily that moon boards are hard it just the gym is most likey soft.
There isn't a more universal experience than a climber trying a training board for the first time (and getting absolutely shutdown). Keep at it consistently and you WILL start to get comfortable on it (and hella strong)
I strongly suspect is a bit of both, the moonboard is probably sandbagged but if you're used to commercial gym grades in the UK, yeah those are soft (as they are in many places)
Great vid, love how you covered the stages of moonboarding. I tried moonboarding in my first month of climbing and I also couldnt get off the ground, and the more I tried the better I got. I related so much to the acquisition of the secret "body tension". + that home gym is immense
Definitely give the Kilter board and TB a try. All 3 boards have been helpful in different ways for me! The Kilter board especially feels more beginner friendly since the entire outline of the hold lights up! And the holds are a little more incut. The TB2 really helps with footwork since there are some wooden footholds that really force you to keep tension in your whole body.
Wild how a tiny bit of success can suddenly make you such a better climber. Definitely experienced the same feeling myself on my climbing journey more than a couple times.
Perfectly summarizes the experience... welcome to the club! Next video: pulley injury from being addiced to board climbing and ignoring the niggles in your fingers. We've all been there... ;-)
Totally been there and after a year recovering from two consecutive A2 pulleys, I'm now back there again ;) Be careful with the board obsession.. Its addictive and it will lead to injury if you don´t pace yourself. Talking from experience;)
Didn't realise that moon board started at V4 and almost laughed when I saw you started it at that. I'm V5 in the gym and was struggling on V2s when I started
@@paulwhitlock8881 I feel like the moonboard grades and outdoor boulder grades are pretty much equivalent here. Mostly because those that establish the outdoor boulders are also moonboard climbers. So its the reference
I’d be very interested to see you do videos on more boards. I’m very new to climbing and they all look so intimidating to me… this video really helped explain what this board is for and how best to approach it. Full marks 👍🏼
This is fantastic! I love following your journey, I have been obsessed with climbing just like you and I am on the same journey since I started 6 months ago. I also tried moonboard for the first time a couple of weeks ago, I struggled for four sessions to finally send “The Wam Up Problem 6a+” (talk about sandbagging) on the 2019 moonboard. I would love to see more of your moonboard projects so that I can climb along side with you here in Sweden. Great video as always!
You should do a 30 day moonboard video lol. I am an occasional 7a climber, and to be honest on the board in my gym I struggle to climb 6a! My fingers are strong but I weigh 80kg~ so it's truly a struggle. Nonetheless if I try super hard (I think tbh board climbing is mostly a mental challenge) I can get to the top. Try super hard and send dude, you've got it. Edit: ah yes, also what is key is to try and keep your feet on! Body tension is key!!
Just like Mike said, immediately jumping on MB at a rate of ~10 sessions/month is probably not the best idea, the intensity is too high for a climber at that grade range
This video was right to heart...I've been able to climb 5.12-'s at the gym but I can't do a V3 on the Moonboard (fixed at 40degrees). Exact same scenario as you Mike. The gym is getting a new Kilter board that can have the angle changed, so I'm going to copy your trials and start at about 20degrees and keep making it steeper from there until I can do the route at 40. Thanks for the tip!
I can relate to this video so hard haha. I'm about two weeks into my new moonboard addiction (2016), and started out laughing at how much I was falling off. But you're right! You can feel the difference in all your climbing so quickly. My goal is to do all 78 V4 benchmarks before moving up a grade. 6 down so far :D
I'd love to see you try climbing the Tension Board 2! I climbed on almost every board on the market when I was picking out my homewall, and the TB2 was by far my favorite
I'm just at the point where you are in the beginning of the video. Been climbing for a little over a year (obsessively so) and have now started scheduling one MB 2024 session per week. So far I have gotten over the initial shock at least, now it's on to ticking the first climb.
As someone who has tried boarding only a couple of times and got disheartened and deterred this video really helped Thanks Mike! Please I would love for you to try the other boards as well!
Starting in march I will include the Spraywall in my gym more often. That 40° is so brutal with those holds, I couldn't do a single move so far and I really love doing overhang and roof routes
I think one thing that helped me with board climbing that most people fail to realize is that you don’t HAVE to climb what’s on the app. The lowest is v3 but you can make your own v2 or v1 climbs as if it were a spray wall. Just climb up a ladder and get used to the holds. I spent a lot of time doing spray stuff before I got consistent with the apps. Doesn’t hurt to do your own training.
2019 moonboard is quite sandbagged, yes... but the grasshopper board (which my gym FINALLY replaced with a moonboard) had me falling of V0s and thinking V1s were literally impossible. That thing was an absolute nightmare
Awesome video, and well done! The Moonboard is hiiiiighly addictive. It's so much fun even though it doesn't have the colors and stuff like indoor bouldering, but I think it is because it feels a lot more like climbing outdoors. The grades are hard, the holds are bad and tension is needed. And yes, I get it, outside is way harder blablabla but you get my point 😁
@MikeBoydClimbs my pleasure, your takes on climbing is a lot more relatable for me since I'm also fairly new but I still haven't tried outdoors climbing. I really need to make it happen! Keep up the awesome work 🤙
Amazing video and great effort! I used to be exactly as you and now I’ve built a moonboard in my garage and love it as a training tool. You will get very strong very quickly if you consistently mix in a moonboard session every couple weeks at least from the start!
In my mind the moon board is just a training tool, it’s not so much about sending the problems, it’s about applying maximum effort, improving body tension and technique as well as developing your problem solving ability. I love it, despite my lack of sends 😂
My gym has a tension board, new gym just got a TB2. When i started i was a v5/6 gym climber, amd i had to start at v3. At this point though I've climbed more V7 & 8s on the tension board than on commercial sets. Its just a whole new style of climbing to learn. The best part of your video was seeing how well amd precisely you were moving off the moon board because of it. Well dome! You'll be leading 7b in no time.
Board climbing, especially 40 degree plus, is SO focused on tension and finger strength, including dynamic movement and HARD deadpoints. So different from modern bouldering. But it's such a great training tool, and you really get a lot of milage out of it. Good times!
Its a much better training tool for outdoor bouldering. The board style is so extremely similar to my local area's bouldering style (New River Gorge) that it's wonderful.
Mike, the video where you tried climbing for the first time was a major trigger for me to go try climbing myself, thank you for that 😁 And now this video is the trigger to go try moomboardong for the first time! I totally related to the notion that the moonboard is where the stronger boulder bros hang out 😂
The main difference I see in your technique after the month is the better tension in the feet and the twisting, which you did not do on the board in your fist tries! This was a major improvement I got from the board as well, realising how often and how MUCH the twisting actually can make a move easier on overhangs, or even possible. Great video seeing you learn! BUT be careful with your pulleys on the board, 10 percent of trying to hard for 2 moves can already be too much, don't ever try too hard on the board when tired, I got a tweeky finger just from trying one hard climb myself, "quickly checking out the new moonboard" in january at the end of a normal session. Nothing serious, but 5 weeks of annoying pain and less climbing!
Important to note that it's not always true that a problem made less steep will be easier. Changing the angle changes the direction of gravity which can make positions/moves stretched or cramped when at less steep angles.
Feels like my first session on the kilter 😆 But I think compared to modern climbing gym routes boards are closer to the reality and that's why people think they're sandbagged. It's just the commercial nature of the gym that makes us cocky and then when we see what actually the grade should look like we get that loud slap 😁
Subbed over this video, you really captured the many stages of moonboarding experienced through trying to match your climbing up to benchmarks. I own a mini-moonboard, and the benchmarks on it are beyond humbling. I don't know if the hardest climb I've ever done was on a moonboard, but I'm positive the hardest moves I've ever done are.
@@MikeBoydClimbs The OG set is IMO the hardest of any moonboard benchmark wise. There are finishing matches that will have you crying in the shower. I ordered the new set so we'll see how the 2024 blue holds are for the mini, but I'm sure it will be a different style and likely much easier. I was worried about the blue holds not feeling like a moonboard, but it has to me as I've climbed the full 2024 board over the last month. if it's just for you I'd say do the mini, but if it's going to be climbing with friends/roomies then go full screw in spray wall.
I find that with moonboard especially there is alot of off angle tension. ex. on your send go where u kept falling on that under cling because you were reaching straight up for it. but on the send your body is ever so more leaning to the right helping keep tension in your whole body and making it easier to get a good grip on the under cling. As an injured board climber, its exciting to see you get into it. both moonboard and kilter are very different in styles and can be so much fun to climb
Hahaha omg its like I watch myself from yesterday. I was so hyped to try it out. Been climbing for three years and can do the second hardest grade in my main gym. Yet I cant do two moves on any V4 on the moonboard. It was such a reality check. xD
A grade can’t be “sandbagged” if it’s done by consensus. Good job on hitting the benchmarks, just remember that it’s a training tool for your fingers mostly so over use can lead to injury. Fun video I’d watch one on tension or grasshopper for sure.
I find the Moonboard grades to be pretty accurate. When I've travelled, I've found many gyms to inflate their grades. The Moonboard has been pretty consistent in comparison. Climbing is about the challenge, not the grade! Have fun, good luck!
My climbing gym has 3 kilter boards and i really really like them. I usually use the route options, as i train for longer climbs, but it is really nice to have different angles. As we are able to set one of the kilter boards to -10 degrees, i am thinking about setting a slab problem :D
To be honest with you Mike, its mostly that indoor gyms are soft, not that moonboard is sandbagged. Sometimes its even a bit easier than the outdoor boulders. There has been an inflation in indoor gym grades thats there to motivate begginer climbers to progress quickly trough the grades, but you cant use them as a real proxy to outdoor climbing. Especially in bouldering gyms the inflation is always present, lead climbing gyms, depends where.
Now that you have a moonboard obsession I think you're about to get seriously strong. Once I was bitten by the bug that is when I saw real progress and gains. 2019 IMO is super friendly compared to 2024, I love that set.
I feel like this is a universal experience when trying the moonboard for the first time: picking the most repeated climb then failing to climb it because it is so hard.
As one of said “boulder bros” who hangs out under the boards, I resent you calling it a scary place. We might be power screaming our way up something hard, but we’re also some of the most welcoming people you’ll ever meet. It doesn’t matter if you’re attempting to tick your first ever bloc on a board, or your 50th VHard, CLIMBING IS HARD. And we’re all in there to get better, and we know you’re trying. This is genuine, to everyone who’s looked at the board and the bros hanging out by them, chatting shit and power screaming, come ask if you can try something, we’ll always welcome you. At least that’s the case in every gym I’ve ever been to
My joke was perhaps a little in bad taste. Every self proclaimed boulder bro has always been more than happy to help me up much easier climbs and enjoys chatting shit. I might even be transitioning to a boulder bro myself...
i think a video on the kilter would be amazing to watch, its pretty much the opposite to the moonboard. forgiving holds and every climb is at least 2 grades softer than on the wall
during covid i managed to buy the old moonboard holds from my local gym for 300usd since they got new ones. while a great deal for moonboard holds i didnt appreciate the pully injury that i had just paid $300 for and the two years of nagging finger pain.
You have just discovered that board climbs do not have grade inflation like gym routes do. The lowest levels will feel sandbagged- in reality, they're accurate to outdoor. In addition, moonboard, except the mini, is probably right dead center on the true grades. Tension is about a half grade sandbagged, kilter about a half grade featherbagged, and moonboard right in the middle.
There’s a big difference between grades on different hold sets for moonboard. Some editions feel super sandbagged while others actually feel pretty on grade
if you want the opposite experience and you would like an ego boost, definitely try out the kilter board! It's quite fun and friendly, easier to follow with the lights and some fun big dynamic moves. Plus with the extra width you can get some cool longer problems with more sideways movement. Board climbing is great! :)
So, in our climbing gym the grades are pretty on par with the moonboard. That said, almost no one but the super strong get past V4, and there are a lot of people who struggle on V0s at our Gym. When I started, if something was V0+, it was out of reach. Even if it wasn't on part, it shouldn't have been. Feels like there needs to be an extra two grades at the beginner level at points.
Sounds like a sick gym! Mines the same way. Super Old school, concrete walls, setters are outdoor crushers etc. No parkour, no massive holds etc etc. Definitely the best gym in the area for getting properly strong for outside.
Loved the video Mike great effort. One thing I noticed when you first got on the moon board in the home gym at 10.24 you do a couple feet swaps. You need to learn to keep that left foot on and go to the next foothold with the right then up with left again instead of swapping feet. It will make the climb more fluid and efficient.
I feel you mike! It took me a bunch of sessions to just get my first climb on the moonboard (2019 set). It is hard! And it sometimes feels different to other climbing, with this "feet follow hands" concept, which you don't have on the kilter or tension board (were you have actual footholds!).
Following up to my own comment 😅. Would love a video on your honest comparison as an intermediate climber between moonboard and other boards with actual feet!
Make sure you try the 2016 set if you ever stumble upon it, many of the holds on it are just so nice, especially a lot of the OG yellow holds feel just amazing to hold and pull from and most of them are actually way better than they look. Btw I think it is more of a getting used to the holds thing that makes the board feel a bit stiff at start. People who grade them know all the holds and easy moves perfectly and have perfectly refined beta for holding and moving in between them, while new climber has to figure it all out. I climb usually in 6B-7A range and I'd say the moonboard grades at least on the 2016 set are more or less in line with the grades at all the 3 gyms in my town. Maybe now after 3 years on the moonboard, it is perhaps even starting to reverse where I'm probably even more likely to climb some benchmark of a grade on MB than smth similar style and grade on gym because I'm this much more used to holds on MB aye. But then again some of the benchmarks are also sandbagged. Pretty sure I've seen smth that was a 6B+ benchmark for like 5 years got eventually moved to either like a 6C+ or 7A lol, to climb ALL the benchmarks of a grade is crazy hard because of all the sandbagged and personal weakness ones.
Body tension only works when you place your feet well and then actually use them. This is a weakness viewers and guests in your videos have pointed out. Seems the MB gave you a reason to follow through on that advice. You’ll turn your footwork into a strength soon enough. Good work.
I feel you’ve had a very normal Moonboard introduction. It feels absolutely nails until it doesn’t. If you come back to those same V4 benchmarks in a year I bet you’ll say “yeah that feels about V4”. The board is very prone to causing finger injury’s though so you need to be careful. I’d recommend looking into “Emil Abrahamsson’s, No Hang Protocol” it’ll help strengthen your tendons and generally keep you’re hands in good condition, plus you’ll likely see a massive overall finger strength improvement in like 30 days. Maybe that would make a good video 🤷♂️ Anyway, loved the old videos, and loving the climbing channel! ✌️
I feel like it's always going to feel like the grades are sandbagged when you approach the grades from an indoor bouldering perspective. Yes, the climbs feel hard to begin with, but that is because of the soft grading of indoor gyms to entice people into climbing. Further more, it is a lot harder to add tension when you can't apply enough pressure through your hands and feet because of holds that you can't hold onto so I think as finger strength, applicable finger strength and body tension progress, the moon board starts the feel slightly more doable.
If you tried most overhung v4s outdoors you’d find them similar to moonboard problems. The issue isn’t that board climbs are sandbagged, the issue is that gyms are soft (in order to retain weaker/beginner customers).
@ or the V system just isn’t great. Problem is that V1 or V0 does not accurately reflect the depth of difficulty within such a range. The Font system has like 5 different grades that mean V0 or something like that. The thing is, we don’t need a v7.5 in my opinion but definitely a 0.5 and 1.5. Just use the font system and stop inflated and the problem is fixed
Hahahaha the moment at 6:18 had me hooooowling, this is maybe the most relatable climbing monologue i’ve ever heard
I know it happens to most!
@mikeboydclimbs Absolutely - thank you for sharing your journey and experience with board climbing! It’s valuable to any with those thoughts :)
And then see a 14 year old flash a 7a so you know you get old😂
@@MikeBoydClimbs - but yes, to answer your question honestly - you are indeed shite. lol. Get tough and go get strong!!!!
Great meme
So cool you picked my climb as your first benchmark! Loved seeing it at different angles. Nice work 🎉
Next video: '' I ruptured my pulley by climbing too much on the moonboard '' :D
hopefully not! 🤪
Seriously lol, he shouldn't even be touching this yet
@@rundown132 Why? I don’t think the holds or moves are particularly bad. It’s just very physical. Basically every move is a max strength effort.
@Mike-oz4cv its just waiting to happen when you go from 0 board climving and regularly trying to push grades on it(having climbed for a relatively short amount of time). It's something we've all been through, especially after the euphoria you get from the initial gains you get from learning how to board climb (you learn how make the most of your power, contact strength, moving quickly and precisely etc.). You become enamoured with the progress and then inevitably you push it too far but that's part of slowly figuring out your own limits as well so in the long term its an important and natural step in progression
@@heraclitus4884 Nothing which can’t be solved with lower volume and more recovery.
The difference between you climbing at the start and the end of the vid is so impressive. Your going to improve so much boarding like this
I think there is a difference!
"You can hear the grip" *pulls earphones out in horror* 🤣🤣
that was a vile sound yea
the kinda thing that makes my skin crawl
Bro I fucking shivered, pulled my headset off as fast as I could.
Bro that sound was heavenly
@@KaelGen Real, Idk what the people above are tweaking about
only heard it over phone speakers at low Volume and still cringed like crazy
Please never do that again, like ever 💀
the moon board is just highlighting a lot of weaknesses in your climbing all at once - and like you said, it is a specific style that you really need to learn. The main things I noticed missing were 1. you were hopping on the board with NO PLAN - you didnt know where any of the feet were and you had no plan for what sequence you wanted to do. This is very common because I think people assume that because there are lights it will be easy to read. 2. Your footwork and body tension on bad feet is lacking a lot, and the moonboard punshies that. The good news is climbing on the board for a few months will greatly improve your climbing. Remember to stay postive and keep postive self talk... you cannnn do the move.
This!
i actually really need to hear this, i've been humbled by the moon board every time i tried it
I've been climbing since 2012 and I noticed one thing that people don't talk about too often.
Grip genetics will make difference when you can start using 40 degrees moonboard for EFFECTIVE training. I'll take 2 examples from IRL to be objective:
1. 56kg guy, 180cm tall, after 1 year of climbing his grip strength test showed 90kg (world class). He could easily climb on moonboard after 1 year of climbing, using it as an effective trianing tool and could campus tiny crimps on 40 degrees walls.
2. 65kg guy, 175cm tall, after 1 year of climbing his grip strength test showed 50kg. He could barely hold holds on moonboard even with using legs. After 8 years he could finally climb easily on moonboard. But not as easily as that 1st guy after first year.
It is what it is but important thing is: not everyone can hop on moonboard instantly. It's just numbers, we know some people are not able to generate as much grip force. And you cannot change it because it depends on your biomechanics, small differences make very big grip strength difference. If you train both those guys to use even 90% of their muscle fibers in forearms, one guy will just suck at holding holds compared to the other guy. :D Just biomechanics, nothing to be mad about. Applies to many other sports too but in different areas. :)
For 2nd guy it was ineffective to train on moonboard after 2-3 years of climbing. Why? Because that guy just struggled so much holding holds that he could not focus on movement at all, and was not able to use other muscles properly too when his all brain power was focused on forearms. Secondly that guy had max effort doing single moves on moonboard 40 degrees angle. Which also means that that guy got tired after 1, 2 or 3 boulders and session over lol. The first guy could do 10 boulders and learn a lot of stuff doing that and still go climb hard climbs outside of moonboard in the same session because he can climb easiest moonboard climbs not-at-his-limit.
What to do with that? 1st guy of course can just use moonboard almost instantly no problem, of course limiting amount of moonboard sessions (to avoid injuries, strong grip means also bigger risk of injury because your tendons and other structures are not adapted yet to those forces). 2nd guy needed to first do some fingerboard hangs, some normal climbs, some sessions focused on learning to use bigger percentage of foearm muscle fibers. And also probably reduce to minimum healthy body fat(for male usually 10-11% should be safe minimum of body fat, for women should be around 3% higher afaik).
What I mean is - if you're gifted with amazing grip, this tool is instantly for you. If you're gifted with super bad genetics, you'll need years to even have proper reason for this. If you're in the middle you'll probably need 2-4 years before making those 40 degrees sessions properly.
Also it is important to notice that 20-30 degrees vs 40 degrees climbing is very different when it comes to technique so if you train on 30 degrees to get grip, and then transition to 40 degrees, you will need to put some time into learning how to coordinate movement on 40 degrees properly and it could take long time. :)
I think I managed to stay objective. I hope it is informative enough. :)
I've been on weak grip genetics and I know how it feels when genetic freak appears. :D It feels stupid when some new climber does what you cannot even touch after 10+ years of climbing. But on the positive side - weak grip means you'll take more time to get to those board sessions and you will avoid nasty finger injuries. And you will have a lot of fun learning how to use heelhooks, toehooks, pull hard with your toes, drop knees and stuff. You'll be annoyed with those strong grip guys from time to time but you'll still enjoy climbing and at some point you'll be ready for that 40 degree moonboard session where you can just finally do 10 boulders before you get tired. :) That's why climbing is great, but we should not make people think that they suck at climbing if they suck at board climbs. :D They will of course never do that 8c in Magic Wood but who cares, as long as they have fun and learn stuff and get stronger on their own level. ;)
Was going to mention what you said at the end. With the incline, the thing that you seem to struggle with is keeping tension - you sag, then when you move you lose your feet.
Good training for that is finding a bunch of holds on a steep incline and go really slowly through them, one move at a time, trying to keep yourself from sagging as much as possible. Careful foot placements, you don't want to be "loose" at any point. Once you teach yourself how that feels, it gets easier to find elsewhere.
1:18 "Always works flawlessly, with NO bugs" if only haha
This was such a good low key joke. He must be one of us. :D
😉😉
I’ve trained a lot on the 2016 moonboard, it definitely reflects outdoor bouldering grades more than indoor climbing. High intensity, crimpy, short climbs with little room to do anything other than the intended beta.
This is correct gym climbing grades are soft everyone knows that moonboard is like an average of all outdoor bouldering grades. This dude is clearly like a v3-4 boulderer barely. It’s not sandbagged stop whining, try bouldering in Yosemite if you want to see sandbagged.
@@JonPMellyok then it's sandbagged compared to indoor climbing, easy as that
Agreed. To add on, I feel like the Moonboard often forces awkward hold usage - despite being put in a bad position, you still need to figure out how to pull hard. That's more like outdoor climbing, since in gym setting, holds are usually (not always) set in close-to-ideal orientations and positions.
i really respect your approach to climbing mike. It can be super hard to progress in something as complex as climbing, so this is really inspiring to a lot of people
thanks for the kind words and thanks for watching!
This video inspired me to give the boards a go at my local gym and I am now completely in love with it. Thanks Mike!
The satisfaction from sending moonboard benchmark is so addictive 😂
It pushes you to explore more and more
Absolutely agree!
Controversial opinion perhaps but I think the 2024 moonboard grades aren't sandbagged that much, and closely reflect the level of effort I put in on blocs outdoors. With the exception of that 7A that Aidan Roberts put up (under sam prior's account) called Str8 off dins dome. That thing is beyond nails for the grade
Yes gyms are mostly really soft, i climb 7a/7a+ indoors, outdoors its like 6c-ish, but grade is just a metric of progress for me so i dont mind have kind of like 2 scales for both enviroments, as long as it is consistant
yeah I totally agree. The 2024 v4 benchmarks are nothing like the 2016 v4 benchmarks, still have like 10 v4 2016 left when I've climbed V8 outdoor 😅
fully agree I think board grades are representative of outdoor grades in the sense that if you never climb outside you will struggle to match your indoor grade which likely isn't as accurate as a climb that's been there for 40 years so it's not necessarily that moon boards are hard it just the gym is most likey soft.
str8 of dins dome should be 6C, 6C+ max. Aidan said so himself, he only changed his mind about the grade because of punter sam.
I don't think it's the hardest, but I don't think it's the easiest set either. I found the 2017 moonboard grades easier
There isn't a more universal experience than a climber trying a training board for the first time (and getting absolutely shutdown).
Keep at it consistently and you WILL start to get comfortable on it (and hella strong)
I strongly suspect is a bit of both, the moonboard is probably sandbagged but if you're used to commercial gym grades in the UK, yeah those are soft (as they are in many places)
Great vid, love how you covered the stages of moonboarding. I tried moonboarding in my first month of climbing and I also couldnt get off the ground, and the more I tried the better I got.
I related so much to the acquisition of the secret "body tension".
+ that home gym is immense
Definitely give the Kilter board and TB a try. All 3 boards have been helpful in different ways for me! The Kilter board especially feels more beginner friendly since the entire outline of the hold lights up! And the holds are a little more incut. The TB2 really helps with footwork since there are some wooden footholds that really force you to keep tension in your whole body.
Wild how a tiny bit of success can suddenly make you such a better climber. Definitely experienced the same feeling myself on my climbing journey more than a couple times.
absolutely. Loving it now! Thanks for watching!
Perfectly summarizes the experience... welcome to the club! Next video: pulley injury from being addiced to board climbing and ignoring the niggles in your fingers. We've all been there... ;-)
hi mike, your vids got me into bouldering, just wanna say thanks.
Totally been there and after a year recovering from two consecutive A2 pulleys, I'm now back there again ;) Be careful with the board obsession.. Its addictive and it will lead to injury if you don´t pace yourself. Talking from experience;)
noted! thanks for watching!
Didn't realise that moon board started at V4 and almost laughed when I saw you started it at that. I'm V5 in the gym and was struggling on V2s when I started
Depends on the set. Off the top of my head I know the 2016 and 2024 sets start at 6B+/V4
The 2017 board at 25 degrees has some V2s and I was the same, sending V5/6 in the gym, V3/4 outdoors, getting absolutely shit on by moonboard V2
V5 indoor is on average much easier than V2-3 outdoors, indoor grades are irrelevant to outdoor grades that these are based on
@@paulwhitlock8881 I feel like the moonboard grades and outdoor boulder grades are pretty much equivalent here. Mostly because those that establish the outdoor boulders are also moonboard climbers. So its the reference
I’d be very interested to see you do videos on more boards. I’m very new to climbing and they all look so intimidating to me… this video really helped explain what this board is for and how best to approach it. Full marks 👍🏼
Love the channel and your videos! Your footwork has gotten so much better from when you first started climbing!
This is fantastic! I love following your journey, I have been obsessed with climbing just like you and I am on the same journey since I started 6 months ago. I also tried moonboard for the first time a couple of weeks ago, I struggled for four sessions to finally send “The Wam Up Problem 6a+” (talk about sandbagging) on the 2019 moonboard. I would love to see more of your moonboard projects so that I can climb along side with you here in Sweden. Great video as always!
You should do a 30 day moonboard video lol. I am an occasional 7a climber, and to be honest on the board in my gym I struggle to climb 6a! My fingers are strong but I weigh 80kg~ so it's truly a struggle. Nonetheless if I try super hard (I think tbh board climbing is mostly a mental challenge) I can get to the top. Try super hard and send dude, you've got it.
Edit: ah yes, also what is key is to try and keep your feet on! Body tension is key!!
I'm going to give my fingers a rest then I might try this challenge!
30 day? That’s not even proper 10 sessions if you take the rest required for such a maximum effort climbing.
Just like Mike said, immediately jumping on MB at a rate of ~10 sessions/month is probably not the best idea, the intensity is too high for a climber at that grade range
Banging video 👌 stoked that you didn't give up and saw the progress!
This video was right to heart...I've been able to climb 5.12-'s at the gym but I can't do a V3 on the Moonboard (fixed at 40degrees). Exact same scenario as you Mike. The gym is getting a new Kilter board that can have the angle changed, so I'm going to copy your trials and start at about 20degrees and keep making it steeper from there until I can do the route at 40. Thanks for the tip!
I can relate to this video so hard haha. I'm about two weeks into my new moonboard addiction (2016), and started out laughing at how much I was falling off. But you're right! You can feel the difference in all your climbing so quickly. My goal is to do all 78 V4 benchmarks before moving up a grade. 6 down so far :D
Really cool! Never heard of it before. Well done for not giving up, that looked hard as hell!
I'd love to see you try climbing the Tension Board 2! I climbed on almost every board on the market when I was picking out my homewall, and the TB2 was by far my favorite
I think there's only one in the UK sadly
@@fuzzybee3788kendalwall and font borough
Keep on with the moonboarding! It elevated my climbing so much! 💪
Board climbing has its own inherent skills and techniques that are unique to gym problems for sure. Nice work and perseverance.
I'm just at the point where you are in the beginning of the video. Been climbing for a little over a year (obsessively so) and have now started scheduling one MB 2024 session per week. So far I have gotten over the initial shock at least, now it's on to ticking the first climb.
best of luck! Try "Refuge on Top". I found it the most doable.
Recently been loving moonboard. Got my first v7 benchmark on it the other week 💪🏽
As someone who has tried boarding only a couple of times and got disheartened and deterred this video really helped
Thanks Mike!
Please I would love for you to try the other boards as well!
Great to hear!
Starting in march I will include the Spraywall in my gym more often.
That 40° is so brutal with those holds, I couldn't do a single move so far and I really love doing overhang and roof routes
This is THE climbing video I need the most!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I think one thing that helped me with board climbing that most people fail to realize is that you don’t HAVE to climb what’s on the app. The lowest is v3 but you can make your own v2 or v1 climbs as if it were a spray wall. Just climb up a ladder and get used to the holds.
I spent a lot of time doing spray stuff before I got consistent with the apps. Doesn’t hurt to do your own training.
Nice to see you finally try moonboard! I'd say the benchmark "Moon Girl" is the easiest benchmark by far
2019 moonboard is quite sandbagged, yes... but the grasshopper board (which my gym FINALLY replaced with a moonboard) had me falling of V0s and thinking V1s were literally impossible. That thing was an absolute nightmare
Awesome video, and well done! The Moonboard is hiiiiighly addictive. It's so much fun even though it doesn't have the colors and stuff like indoor bouldering, but I think it is because it feels a lot more like climbing outdoors. The grades are hard, the holds are bad and tension is needed. And yes, I get it, outside is way harder blablabla but you get my point 😁
Thanks for watching! It definitely feels like outdoor climbing which is where my love lies! I think that's why I like it so much
@MikeBoydClimbs my pleasure, your takes on climbing is a lot more relatable for me since I'm also fairly new but I still haven't tried outdoors climbing. I really need to make it happen! Keep up the awesome work 🤙
MB isn’t sandbagged, gym climbs are soft
Amazing video and great effort! I used to be exactly as you and now I’ve built a moonboard in my garage and love it as a training tool. You will get very strong very quickly if you consistently mix in a moonboard session every couple weeks at least from the start!
hopefully I start seeing results!
In my mind the moon board is just a training tool, it’s not so much about sending the problems, it’s about applying maximum effort, improving body tension and technique as well as developing your problem solving ability. I love it, despite my lack of sends 😂
totally. Thanks for watching!
@@MikeBoydClimbs Keep up the great content! Absolutely loving it!
Kilter is awesome. It is easier on the fingers which is nice because you can climb for longer and practice body tension instead of fingers.
My gym has a tension board, new gym just got a TB2. When i started i was a v5/6 gym climber, amd i had to start at v3.
At this point though I've climbed more V7 & 8s on the tension board than on commercial sets. Its just a whole new style of climbing to learn.
The best part of your video was seeing how well amd precisely you were moving off the moon board because of it. Well dome! You'll be leading 7b in no time.
Board climbing, especially 40 degree plus, is SO focused on tension and finger strength, including dynamic movement and HARD deadpoints. So different from modern bouldering.
But it's such a great training tool, and you really get a lot of milage out of it. Good times!
I did a normal bouldering session today and was surprised just how different it can be from the board. The slab caught me out!
Its a much better training tool for outdoor bouldering. The board style is so extremely similar to my local area's bouldering style (New River Gorge) that it's wonderful.
Mike, the video where you tried climbing for the first time was a major trigger for me to go try climbing myself, thank you for that 😁
And now this video is the trigger to go try moomboardong for the first time! I totally related to the notion that the moonboard is where the stronger boulder bros hang out 😂
Great to hear! Good luck with the board. Stay injury free!
Love it. Looking forward to the kilter video!
The main difference I see in your technique after the month is the better tension in the feet and the twisting, which you did not do on the board in your fist tries! This was a major improvement I got from the board as well, realising how often and how MUCH the twisting actually can make a move easier on overhangs, or even possible. Great video seeing you learn!
BUT be careful with your pulleys on the board, 10 percent of trying to hard for 2 moves can already be too much, don't ever try too hard on the board when tired, I got a tweeky finger just from trying one hard climb myself, "quickly checking out the new moonboard" in january at the end of a normal session. Nothing serious, but 5 weeks of annoying pain and less climbing!
Important to note that it's not always true that a problem made less steep will be easier.
Changing the angle changes the direction of gravity which can make positions/moves stretched or cramped when at less steep angles.
As a board lover, stoked to see this haha
Definitely a unique style of climbing is the moonboard, lots of body tension. Nice video 👍
thanks!
Wow great job, let us see more of board climbing! 🤩
Feels like my first session on the kilter 😆 But I think compared to modern climbing gym routes boards are closer to the reality and that's why people think they're sandbagged. It's just the commercial nature of the gym that makes us cocky and then when we see what actually the grade should look like we get that loud slap 😁
Subbed over this video, you really captured the many stages of moonboarding experienced through trying to match your climbing up to benchmarks. I own a mini-moonboard, and the benchmarks on it are beyond humbling. I don't know if the hardest climb I've ever done was on a moonboard, but I'm positive the hardest moves I've ever done are.
Thanks for the sub 🙏 how is the mini moonboard?. I've been measuring up the garage...
@@MikeBoydClimbs The OG set is IMO the hardest of any moonboard benchmark wise. There are finishing matches that will have you crying in the shower. I ordered the new set so we'll see how the 2024 blue holds are for the mini, but I'm sure it will be a different style and likely much easier. I was worried about the blue holds not feeling like a moonboard, but it has to me as I've climbed the full 2024 board over the last month. if it's just for you I'd say do the mini, but if it's going to be climbing with friends/roomies then go full screw in spray wall.
I find that with moonboard especially there is alot of off angle tension. ex. on your send go where u kept falling on that under cling because you were reaching straight up for it. but on the send your body is ever so more leaning to the right helping keep tension in your whole body and making it easier to get a good grip on the under cling. As an injured board climber, its exciting to see you get into it. both moonboard and kilter are very different in styles and can be so much fun to climb
can't wait try kilter and tension boards! Thanks for watching.
Hahaha omg its like I watch myself from yesterday. I was so hyped to try it out. Been climbing for three years and can do the second hardest grade in my main gym. Yet I cant do two moves on any V4 on the moonboard. It was such a reality check. xD
A grade can’t be “sandbagged” if it’s done by consensus. Good job on hitting the benchmarks, just remember that it’s a training tool for your fingers mostly so over use can lead to injury. Fun video I’d watch one on tension or grasshopper for sure.
I find the Moonboard grades to be pretty accurate. When I've travelled, I've found many gyms to inflate their grades. The Moonboard has been pretty consistent in comparison. Climbing is about the challenge, not the grade! Have fun, good luck!
My climbing gym has 3 kilter boards and i really really like them. I usually use the route options, as i train for longer climbs, but it is really nice to have different angles.
As we are able to set one of the kilter boards to -10 degrees, i am thinking about setting a slab problem :D
That inner monologue had me cackling 🤣
🤣
Holy schmolly ... First time watching one of your video. I am impressed by the quality and transparency. Will be back :)
Wow, thank you!
To be honest with you Mike, its mostly that indoor gyms are soft, not that moonboard is sandbagged. Sometimes its even a bit easier than the outdoor boulders. There has been an inflation in indoor gym grades thats there to motivate begginer climbers to progress quickly trough the grades, but you cant use them as a real proxy to outdoor climbing. Especially in bouldering gyms the inflation is always present, lead climbing gyms, depends where.
Now that you have a moonboard obsession I think you're about to get seriously strong. Once I was bitten by the bug that is when I saw real progress and gains. 2019 IMO is super friendly compared to 2024, I love that set.
I also think I prefer the 2019
I feel like this is a universal experience when trying the moonboard for the first time: picking the most repeated climb then failing to climb it because it is so hard.
As one of said “boulder bros” who hangs out under the boards, I resent you calling it a scary place.
We might be power screaming our way up something hard, but we’re also some of the most welcoming people you’ll ever meet. It doesn’t matter if you’re attempting to tick your first ever bloc on a board, or your 50th VHard, CLIMBING IS HARD. And we’re all in there to get better, and we know you’re trying.
This is genuine, to everyone who’s looked at the board and the bros hanging out by them, chatting shit and power screaming, come ask if you can try something, we’ll always welcome you. At least that’s the case in every gym I’ve ever been to
facts, we all started at falling of the v4s haha
My joke was perhaps a little in bad taste. Every self proclaimed boulder bro has always been more than happy to help me up much easier climbs and enjoys chatting shit. I might even be transitioning to a boulder bro myself...
@@MikeBoydClimbs become the boulder bro you were born to be. Embrace the dark side
Would love to see you try other boards too!
Being at a similar level, it's more inspiring to see someone fighting the board haha!
Coming soon!
i think a video on the kilter would be amazing to watch, its pretty much the opposite to the moonboard. forgiving holds and every climb is at least 2 grades softer than on the wall
You'll have to come and try my garage board mike 😁
Great video Mike! I'm learning how to climb (not quite as good as you), and struggling to finish a V0 on the Kilter board was illuminating lol
You can do it! 💪
One the best videos yet!
very sweet of you to say. Thanks for watching!
during covid i managed to buy the old moonboard holds from my local gym for 300usd since they got new ones. while a great deal for moonboard holds i didnt appreciate the pully injury that i had just paid $300 for and the two years of nagging finger pain.
If mike dont watch out hes gonna become a strong climber.. 💪
You have just discovered that board climbs do not have grade inflation like gym routes do.
The lowest levels will feel sandbagged- in reality, they're accurate to outdoor. In addition, moonboard, except the mini, is probably right dead center on the true grades. Tension is about a half grade sandbagged, kilter about a half grade featherbagged, and moonboard right in the middle.
Started moon boarding again yesterday! Proper humbles you for a few sessions
tell me about it!
thank you mike boyd.
No problem!
@@MikeBoydClimbs i'm very satisfied, seeing you freely enjoying your hobbies and lifestyles.
There’s a big difference between grades on different hold sets for moonboard. Some editions feel super sandbagged while others actually feel pretty on grade
if you want the opposite experience and you would like an ego boost, definitely try out the kilter board! It's quite fun and friendly, easier to follow with the lights and some fun big dynamic moves. Plus with the extra width you can get some cool longer problems with more sideways movement. Board climbing is great! :)
Need an ego boost! It's on the list!
So, in our climbing gym the grades are pretty on par with the moonboard. That said, almost no one but the super strong get past V4, and there are a lot of people who struggle on V0s at our Gym. When I started, if something was V0+, it was out of reach.
Even if it wasn't on part, it shouldn't have been. Feels like there needs to be an extra two grades at the beginner level at points.
Sounds like a sick gym! Mines the same way. Super Old school, concrete walls, setters are outdoor crushers etc. No parkour, no massive holds etc etc. Definitely the best gym in the area for getting properly strong for outside.
the monologue is too good lmao
A lot of times lower grades for indoor gyms don’t engage fingers the way board climbing does and it takes time to adapt to those demands.
hey mike i practise bouldering now thanks to your video's thank you very much
that's awesome to hear!
My wife and I are having a very similar experience with the tension board but less sandbagged
Loved the video Mike great effort. One thing I noticed when you first got on the moon board in the home gym at 10.24 you do a couple feet swaps. You need to learn to keep that left foot on and go to the next foothold with the right then up with left again instead of swapping feet. It will make the climb more fluid and efficient.
Then notice you done it at 12.21 and it made that move easier and smoother
15.47 was just climbed so well. Well done mate
And by the end of the video..you can see the difference in your climbing !!
You definitely have pinch strength! Exactly what I lack the most. Great video!
shame about my footwork! Everyone has weaknesses...
I still think it's really cool when I see my local climbing gmy in a vidio ahah
I feel you mike! It took me a bunch of sessions to just get my first climb on the moonboard (2019 set). It is hard! And it sometimes feels different to other climbing, with this "feet follow hands" concept, which you don't have on the kilter or tension board (were you have actual footholds!).
Following up to my own comment 😅. Would love a video on your honest comparison as an intermediate climber between moonboard and other boards with actual feet!
Make sure you try the 2016 set if you ever stumble upon it, many of the holds on it are just so nice, especially a lot of the OG yellow holds feel just amazing to hold and pull from and most of them are actually way better than they look. Btw I think it is more of a getting used to the holds thing that makes the board feel a bit stiff at start. People who grade them know all the holds and easy moves perfectly and have perfectly refined beta for holding and moving in between them, while new climber has to figure it all out. I climb usually in 6B-7A range and I'd say the moonboard grades at least on the 2016 set are more or less in line with the grades at all the 3 gyms in my town. Maybe now after 3 years on the moonboard, it is perhaps even starting to reverse where I'm probably even more likely to climb some benchmark of a grade on MB than smth similar style and grade on gym because I'm this much more used to holds on MB aye. But then again some of the benchmarks are also sandbagged. Pretty sure I've seen smth that was a 6B+ benchmark for like 5 years got eventually moved to either like a 6C+ or 7A lol, to climb ALL the benchmarks of a grade is crazy hard because of all the sandbagged and personal weakness ones.
Awesome video, i felt exactly the same the first time on the moonboard :) cool to see that you like it that much now
glad others feel similarly. Thanks for watching!
Body tension only works when you place your feet well and then actually use them. This is a weakness viewers and guests in your videos have pointed out. Seems the MB gave you a reason to follow through on that advice. You’ll turn your footwork into a strength soon enough. Good work.
I train at school room so use moonboards all the time and would say moonboard grades translate best to outdoor grades especially in the peak district
Hey, someone learned to use his feet properly and has some body tension now.
Well done!
Nice video. maybe i should do more moonboard and kilterboard stuff too.
I feel you’ve had a very normal Moonboard introduction. It feels absolutely nails until it doesn’t. If you come back to those same V4 benchmarks in a year I bet you’ll say “yeah that feels about V4”.
The board is very prone to causing finger injury’s though so you need to be careful. I’d recommend looking into “Emil Abrahamsson’s, No Hang Protocol” it’ll help strengthen your tendons and generally keep you’re hands in good condition, plus you’ll likely see a massive overall finger strength improvement in like 30 days. Maybe that would make a good video 🤷♂️
Anyway, loved the old videos, and loving the climbing channel! ✌️
he already did a video on that protocol... and i bet he will destroy his pulley on this shit board. as we all did.
Great progress! I’m noticing a habit of readjusting on almost every grip. Just something to be aware of, and maybe something to work on improving!
yeah when it's steep I can't stop! Need to fix it
I feel like it's always going to feel like the grades are sandbagged when you approach the grades from an indoor bouldering perspective. Yes, the climbs feel hard to begin with, but that is because of the soft grading of indoor gyms to entice people into climbing. Further more, it is a lot harder to add tension when you can't apply enough pressure through your hands and feet because of holds that you can't hold onto so I think as finger strength, applicable finger strength and body tension progress, the moon board starts the feel slightly more doable.
1:20 "mhm, yup, yessir"
If you tried most overhung v4s outdoors you’d find them similar to moonboard problems. The issue isn’t that board climbs are sandbagged, the issue is that gyms are soft (in order to retain weaker/beginner customers).
Which is silly because the solution is to just create a finer grading scheme. There should absolutely be v1.5's
@ or the V system just isn’t great. Problem is that V1 or V0 does not accurately reflect the depth of difficulty within such a range. The Font system has like 5 different grades that mean V0 or something like that. The thing is, we don’t need a v7.5 in my opinion but definitely a 0.5 and 1.5. Just use the font system and stop inflated and the problem is fixed