Personally, what did it a lot for me was projecting, getting so obsessed with a route, a series of moves, that I stopped thinking about the falling. Of course I knew that no fall would be dangerous anywhere on those projects, which helped.
I love your climbing content and how while you're publishing videos on climbing, you aren't currently another 'Magnus Midtbø' 9a level climber. It makes your content much more relatable for me! xD
“Can fall anywhere” is definitely true for the gym, and I’d say many routes above 10c-11a outdoors. But most 5.10b and below I’ve run into outdoors, I really don’t want to fall on many of the bolts due to ledges or just overall runout bolting of “easy” routes. Kind of a cruel irony for new outdoor sport climbers, haha.
This has been a huge issue for me as well. Easy routes outdoors are literally 50% no fall zones because of ledges and runouts, which makes outdoor lead climbing more terrifying than fun for me at the moment.
Having almost decked on my third outdoor climb ever i understand, but it can happen on harder too (5.11c in my case) it can be very crag dependent. looking for a nice slight overhang is often the best for beginners but nature sometimes has other plans, also easier slabs might feel sketchy as hell on lead but might actually be your safest option. Remember to exercise common sense and caution.
Something that hurts to think about mentally is that clipping from the intended clipping position tends to be safer. When you are clipping from below the bolt, you have even more slack out than normal, and the holds/positions that you are on tend to be worse. It's hard to train on harder routes, but making sure to do this on easier climbs helped me a lot. Also saves more energy, so you can save more!!
I feel like mostly the intended clipping position is when the bolt is around your waist or chest and not so high up you have to extend your arm to reach it. But I guess people want to clip as early as possible most of the time. Wouldn't 10:59 be a quite reasonable clipping position? Instead he clipped at 10:12 when he was way below and had to pull out a lot of slack and even securing it with the teeth to pull out more. (I get it that you have to do that sometimes, but here it seems unnecessary risky, he wasn't even that high up at that point)
Your observations on reducing fear are spot on! I work with fears a lot as an animal trainer, and there's so much incredibly harmful "fall practise" happening on that field too. People think they're doing desensitisation, but end up just sensitising their animals even more to whatever they were afraid of. Desensitisation as a method works, but only if it's done correctly. Barely stepping out of the comfort zone for a short time, then returning before the fear has a chance to grow. It takes lots of succesful repetition over time, done in relatively short sessions to avoid trigger stacking. (Trigger stacking basically means exposure to multiple scary triggers at the same time or in quick succession without an adequate recovery time, so the overall stress level keeps growing. Physiologically it means stress hormone levels rising higher and higher, since it takes time to get rid of them. Hence even smaller things suddenly feel too much.) Pure exposure to prove that something is safe can only work if the individual doesn't get a bad experience. Nobody else can decide what counts as a bad experience for you. If you try a method and it makes the fear worse, it means it was an overall bad experience, even if you didn't crash to the floor or physically hurt yourself. For someone else the exactly same thing might be perfectly fine, or even fun.
22:13 That "it's okay" makes all the difference in the world. It happened to me to climb with people that were more experienced than me, and with them it was not "okay" to be scared. You just had to grind your teeth and push through. To them being scared was something to be annihilated, not embraced. Remember guys to have supporting mates around, climbing can be really harsh on your mind!
Went lead climbing for the first time yesterday. Had a mate with me who`s been climbing for 20+ years. He showed me everything calmly and we progressed from doing 1-2 clips to doing full routes pretty fast, because I felt comfortably. But doing actually fall practice with him was a huge relief for me in the first session.
Here's something that worked for me. I noticed that I was often afraid of taking the same size fall leading as I would from a boulder, but the latter was never a concern. Why? Because landing on a mat is a controlled variable - you become used to the distance you are going to fall, what you are landing on, and consequently how to arrange your body and feet in a split second. Leading does not have this known factor, as the distance you'll fall is dependant on how far above the bolt you are. I was often scared even to let go and fall of my own volition, preferring for it to take me by surprise so I wouldn't have to think about it. So, to make the fall a more predictable experience I practiced climbing above the bolt, just a little bit, and estimating where my feet would hit the wall, and visualising how and where I would land. What I discovered is that I was always way off - totally underestimating or overestimating how and where I would come to a stop. After only a session's practice I was able to already dial in this uncontrolled element, and I was soon taking big, controlled falls with almost no fear. It was suddenly like a rope swing! I think that this falling awareness aspect is something very young climbers intuitively understand. It's worth trying if you find falling scary - just repeatedly take deliberate falls with all the concentration just beforehand on where your feet will land, and how it will feel, and where your body will be. See how far off you were and then take another from the same height with the new knowledge in mind. It will feel completely different,and over time you'll get better at estimating!
I was shouting 'Feet!' at the screen every time you got out of your comfort zone! You would really flail with your feet most times before taking a fall, then as your confidence of the route grew, you would move your feet just fine at the same point on the route. Something that helped me was when I felt near my limit, instead of looking for the next hand hold, look to your feet instead. I have saved myself from falling by finding a better foot position so many times!
One thing I'd like to point out, that really helped me, is forgetting about the grade. I noticed in this video you put a really big emphasis on 7a being your limit. This can be good to know what grades to try but when your climbing this can hold you back. I used to always have the thoughts "oh this is my project grade so i know Im going to fall" or "I cant climb that its above anything ive done before". About a year ago i really worked on it and without really gaining any more strength i shot up in what i could climb because i was able to relax a lot more. What i do now is try to fall in love with moves. I look at a climb, asses the moves, and look for areas or parts of a climb that are fun and exciting and try to think "ooo id love to try that move up there". This reminds me of your bouldering video where u started projecting and you shifted your mindset and you were able to climb so much harder. I think the same thing can be applied to sport climbiing. Grade chasing is one thing but letting a grade hold you back due to fear of difficulty is also just as valid and totally possible
I actually love this approach and I've been doing something similar as well. I haven't done it consciously but anytime I see a climb that's *supposedly* above my skill level, I always go like "nah that looks doable", and wouldn't you know, it's not! But with this approach there's also been a handful of times when I've actually beaten a climb that I fully believed I was too weak for. So absolutely, ignore the level you think you're at, and just try whatever piques your interest
I resonate a lot with that second point. For me, the love of the movement is the force that drives me past the fear of falling. When I started climbing I was very often in fight or flight, but then I relaxed as I started to enjoy balancing, reaching, grabbing, repositioning, and sinking in.
Yo Mike, been watching you sense I was a kiddo and you came out with some Rubik’s cube video. Loved your mindset and followed you sense. Love to see you working the climbing mindsets as I remembered you when I had to develop mine. Trust your gear and send man!
For me best way to get over fear of falling was while warming up on an easy lead, belayer shouts up 'Fall!' - when we started did absolutely mini falls, gradually make it more and more every session so that it's never bad (and because you are (meant to) fall off straight away, don't have the same issues with shouting down and thinking about falling for 20s) , do it as part of the warmup, becomes no big deal pretty quick
@@MikeBoydClimbs I'm thankfully falling back into my bouldering addiction after having a lazy few months, love watching these videos on recovery days to scratch the itch. Went Ratho (EICA) a few years ago the place is mad
Hangdogging is brilliant. Honestly it's the best way to gain exposure and really learn a route. Mike, I'd recommend trying to 2nd go a route like the one in the video after a thorough hangdog mission, like you did here. But with another bit of key tactics I use for 2nd go attempts: Climb the crux sections again while being lowered, Have your belayer stop in a handful of places on the way down so you can find the rest positions, look for efficiencies that will save you energy - i.e. anything that might give you trouble on the way up. It requires a patient belayer for sure, but I think is an excellent use of time and tactics. That way, when I pull on for the 2nd go off the ground, I've got as much information as I possibly could retain and a better plan than if I didn't do the extra rehearsals on the lower.
Hey great video! I've also felt that traditional fall practice doesn't really work, it's too harsh and people usually are more afraid than before. What I've used to help people who are afraid of falling is a fall practice divided by steps. When I do this it's always on routes that are easy for them and the idea is to make little falls that lead to bigger falls. I usually make them fall first with the last clip in front of their face ( basically top rope), then the last clip in front of their chest, then crotch, then knees, then feet and finally on the next clip (if the next clip is too far you can do another fall at the midpoint). It works really well for most people and you can do it as many times as you need and whenever you need, I still use it when I'm not feeling confident and it can be the difference between a very frustrating day at the crag and a very fun one. Hope this helps :)
What you described just sounds like traditional fall practice. One thing i would add to make it a bit more effective is to repeat the same fall from the same place a few times before increasing the height. This way you can really feel the difference in your nerves between the first and next few tries. The aim is to feel comfortable with what you previously found scary. Also, if subsequent falls are _more_ scary than the initial fall then you're pushing too much and need to ease off.
Thanks for the video Mike! A lot of it was really relatable. Leading above protection has always been quite difficult, also to the point that it affects my performance, and I've also found that trying to push myself to just keep going or taking big falls was detrimentally scary. A lot of the principles you suggest are also things that've worked for me! I'd also add that a massive one for me while doing my exploratory attempts going bolt to bolt is to find my preferred clipping positions. The unknown is a massive stress when I'm on lead, so knowing that this specific hold or position is going to feel the best for the next clip can help me stay calm and relaxed when I'm above protection. There's nothing more stressful to me than climbing into the unknown, feeling the fatigue and still not knowing if the clipping positions are going to get any better or if I've climbed too far to clip. Secondly, practicing different clipping heights on progressively harder routes has helped me feel more comfortable when leading at my limit. Our gym has a couple of nice 6a routes that we often warm up on, and they've been set really well to put the ideal clipping position with the quickdraw at waist height. At first it felt a bit run out, but over time I gradually got used to clipping around my waist, which is much quicker and easier than clipping above your head. While sometimes outdoors this isn't possible and you should prioritise the safest position in the case of features on the wall, it's been a good thing to practice indoors, as it's built some exposure to small run outs, and has also helped me prioritise the position efficiency. It's somewhat counter-intuitive, but clipping a draw that at arms reach above actually adds more rope into the system and would cause a greater fall if you fell before clipping. Plus, it takes longer to pull up the rope you need. So yeah, where possible especially on non-limit routes it's been really helpful to clip at waist height. Loving the progress brother! Thanks the inspiration!
Great tips! Outdoors, I spend a lot of time turning draws around to optimise clipping on the redpoint. This can't be done indoors with perma-draws but it helps with the practice. Thanks for watching!
Totally agree about your point on fall pratice. I find that throwing for a move and letting go is so much more valuable than letting go which just feels so unnatural and scary.
nice to see you having come so far from your first times climbing, you seem like your processes have matured a lot! can’t wait for the training arc of board and max pull ups and the outdoor movies of climbing in scotland :,)
Regarding pre-clipping the first 3 quickdraws: In most indoor routes you don’t have to do any risky clips for the first 3 or 4 quickdraws (unless the route is way above your skill level). As long as you are focused it’s highly unlikely you’ll fall. Indoors they also intentionally place the quickdraws below 5m much closer together.
In the gym in Germany where I was a few times, the difficult routes also started hard. In the end its better to preclip instead of falling because of false ambition.
Funny timing, I had my first lead climbing class yesterday! Seeing this makes me feel very lucky to not be (too) scared of falling! Great video, thanks for all you do :)
Good video. One of the good things about EICA is the clips feel so close together and since they are so long I spend less time scared that I am going to ground fall. Whereas at my local gym GCC with shorter routes that feel difficult from the first move I often am worried about a ground fall for a longer percentage of the climb. I’m also a serial high clipper when scared so being further off the ground helps with that.
@ easy done especially if you feel set in your current position when doing it. Any recommendations for favourite climbs/ crags in Kalymnos going in May?
The first thing we did for fall practice was to let go of the final hold as soon as we had made the top clip. This way you take a little fall as there is some slack in the system but you are effectively on top rope so you have more confidence to let go. After a few goes, we began gaving a little extra slack for a slightly longer fall but still on tope rope. This gets you more used to the feeling of falling and being caught without the anxiety of being above the bolt. This really did help me and allowed me to begin taking practice lead falls which were previously terrifying.
some things ive changed to make flaking/prepping my rope easier: coil the rope with one strand instead of pairs of strands to avoid tangling later (it appears the pairing technique was used because of how the bights pair up); when using a rope tarp, avoid coiling and roll the tarp more often, like a tight crêpe so to avoid the rope flowing over itself; in the gym use a big open tote bag, like an ikea bag and its ready to go, rarely ever needing to be flaked.
Hi Mike, This is my first time watching a video of yours. RUclips recommended this one to me today. Thank you for the video. I have the same issue you used to have. My partner is significantly lighter and I am indeed scared of falling and hitting her or the ground. I will test your tips and I am looking forward to seeing how/if those work for me. Thanks again. Great video. Cheers
Great video, Mike! My feelings about falling seem to be really similar to yours, although I'm earlier on in my climbing journey, and at a much more preliminary stage of working through it. I feel the same about intentional fall practice. Weirdly, I actually find genuine whippers very fun, but only when i haven't had too much time to think about them. A coach at my local gym recently suggested that perhaps i was thinking too much about it falling because I was climbing routes way below my limit (to 'get used to' climbing lead) which means the moves weren't challenging enough to occupy all my focus. I certainly feel like I've plateaued recently despite knowing I'm definitely stronger and more skilled. So i really like the idea of spending more time just going clip to clip on harder routes as you did with the climb, and slowly working on progress up the wall rather than feeling pressure to send 'because i should be able to climb this grade'. It's fun not to just be working on jug ladders anyway! 😅 Also agree that climbing top rope first isn't really helpful for me personally - often the moves and positioning feel really different. Glad this video came along right now - just when i needed it!
I'm loving the new channel! I don't however know anything about climbing, I'd love to see some little popups or just moments when you explain the terminology you are using. I have no idea what flashing a route, or redpointing is. But would love to learn
If it's only a couple of terms per episode, maybe you can just google those? Would be tiring for climbers to watch if all the climbing channels started showing popups explaining the super super basic lingo.
When I was studying overseas my university had a climbing program. The teacher, from basically session 2 after he knew we were physically able to climb, encouraged us to lead climb every session. Got to say, that helped immensely in getting better really fast and confronting fear of falling.
Thanks Mike, great video. Strugglling with a similar issue myself. Sometimes I get in the right zone, and lead with confidence. Other times I don't. I like the 'can' fall process.
This is very cool. I was just thinking about this a few weeks ago. The climber is only as good as he is brave, which becomes shockingly apparent when you get out there and start climbing for real.
That last bit is helpful, and actually for me a big part of being ok with falling / managing fear of falling is to climb a chill route first during warmup and being very intentional on clipping only when the bolt is at my harness instead of above me etc. This allows to keep practicing being over bolts, and also gives me a good idea of my mental state. Some days I’ll just get scared doing that on my warm up 5a/b, and then I know it’s just no the right day and it’s ok.
You perfectly described my own experience with learning to be comfortable with lead climbing. I will also add that every route is different and you should treat them as such (especially outdoors). Some routes will have moves that are a lot more scary than others even at the same height above the clip and on the same wall. You need to consider how you might swing and avoid any awkward slams into the wall. To tackle this i just do mini practice falls on each of those uncomfortable sections until they start to feel comfortable and my body learns how to respond to the swing.
Sick video Mike! Be careful with your feet man, there were a 2-3 moments in this video where it could've been a gnarly fall cause the rope was behind your foot!
Great video! And totally agree with you that the best way to practice falling is just to try hard and fall naturally (when the bolting is sporty enough)
2:52 Get a rope bag....i don't coil up my rope anymore....just have it loose on the sheath. just have to go through the rope once and it's nice :) 4:48 the route setters know this and usually, you have the hard moves not before the 3rd bolt. Some Gyms (my gym for example) has mats or semi nice floor to fall on, if something goes wrong. In addition for outside, i learned to put down the rope as a makeshift crashpad and look for a good landing. 8:15 i try not toprope, but more like a toprope with clipped bolts, you have to unclip. it is a different type, and i think it is harder. therefore, when i can do this, i usually can lead a route. But you are right. Leading a route is always the better option. 11:15 you are clipping really early. Think about your clip positions. Being higher up, when clipping, is less of a fall. The fear of falling works into your clip positions, as you are scared and clip really early. I am not free of this and do this as well. 13:50 That is how you should practice fall training. not just jumping in, but more from a climbing move. 14:09 That is a trusting process. I usually see my climbing partner struggling and he/she doesn't have to say anything. i know what is going to happen, and when he/she will let go. That is down to the belayer. He/She has you. You don't have to say anything. But two cents about it :D
1:36 such an epiphany for me and it seems so obvious in retrospect - just do something a little outside your comfort zone then allow yourself to calm down. Thank you so much for the video!
Falling has definitely been (and still is) a struggle for me as well. I’ve also found dogging a route to really help, it’s the unknown of the upcoming holds and clipping position that gets me. Once I know and focus on the moves, it’s much less scary
I found fall practice helpful and got used to taking big falls quickly, but that did not immediately translate to taking unanticipated falls. One tip is that if you're getting too scared waiting to fall, you should dial back the intensity slightly and let go as soon as you decide where to fall. You don't need to let the belayer know. They should be ready to catch a fall no matter what, especially if you tell them on the ground. If you can figure out an effective way to add some fall training, it could be quite beneficial as you can take many more falls than if you were falling from climbing hard.
The fact that it's relatively safe to take huuuuuuge falls, makes me love this sport even more. Falling can be so much fun, but you've gotta learn to enjoy it
I've found that pushing through the fear is counterproductive since you're always training with fear in mind. I try to increase my comfort zone by falling where I feel comfortable until that is boring so that I want to go a bit higher above the clip. That way progress much faster.
Totally agree with what you've said so far (halfway through the video) especially giving up on the flash go. I don't sport climb (I boulder) - but nothing is more unhelpful than the pressure to keep going when your nervous system is overwhelmed. For me, I found allowing myself to walk away for a bit, try something else, after having challenged myself on a scary boulder is a good way to go about it. Wouldn't say it helps to send that particular boulder, but I've noticed over time that things have gotten less scary and that it generally calms me down because I don't also worry about feeling the pressure that I 'should' push myself further than what is comfortable or even realistic. Edit: Exactly the point you made at the end :D I'm so glad you've had the same experience.
Getting out of a permanent "no fall" mentality is super important. However a permanent "yes fall" mentality can be risky. It's important to make objective assessments of the situation and make sure that when you go into a "no fall" mentality it's based on actual risk and danger. IE if there's a ledge or a roof you are at risk of hitting in a fall outdoors. I also think that fall practice can you really useful but should be built up very incramentally, you are totally correct that if you are constantly entering a panic state before the fall it is counter productive. Fall practice should be incremental, push you slightly out of your comfort zone, but not trigger a high anxiety state, and distance and intensity of fall should only increase once you have brought the previous fall into your comfort zone. When I worked with Arno Ilgner from Rock Warriors way we started our lead fall practice clipped above our heads, essentially on top rope. The biggest benefit I got from this fall practice is learning how to direct my body off the wall, where to direct my gaze, and how to assess my fall mid fall to identify hazards to avoid. You can only start addressing all of that if the falls are simple and not scary to begin with, and then you can add more exposure and fall distance incramentally as you improve your ability to react in that split second.
So the seed mike planted in my brain about a year ago with his first climbing video has finally sprouted and I've been to the climbing gym a few times now. It's been fun! Steep learning curve for a heavy bloke approaching 40, but fun. Let's see if I'm still doing it in another year.
At some point I just started leading everything. Especially in a gym it's always pretty safe if you don't go way above your level. If I have a good day and am climbing with my main partner I can actually go to physical failure now. That doesn't work everyday though and only works, when I didn't take a longer break from climbing. It feels super great to make it up 3 more draws or so, when you felt like you were about to fall a minute ago. Sometimes even sending, but just figuring out how much is still in the tank and sometimes just using some different muscles on the next hold let's you relax a bit and you can keep going for one more hold. And then another one. And maybe one more. Takes time and practice though and sometimes I have comfort days, where I just go draw to draw.
I have a massive weight discprency between my me and my wife, I am twice her weight. So I was pretty anxious regarding falling. However, we did get the Edelrid Ohm and it works super well, really helped my head game on lead. I also programed fall training, similar experience to you. It helped me trust the gear though. What fall training realy helped though was from a belayer perspective to tain giving soft catches... something I wasn't great at and something people don't talk about much ito fall practice. Personally I feel more comfortable falling if I know my belayer will give me a soft catch and I can trust them
Or a rope bucket. I use a soft collapsible one made for collecting yard clippings. Not having to flake every time is great. You should still inspect your rope regularly though.
They work off bracing on the other side when you give it weight so the actual door frame doesn’t take as much as you’d think. Never seen the classic pull up bars with the same system take the door frame off anyway, i think just how it distributes weight makes it quite unlikely. It can sometimes mark the wall above the door frame which is something to keep in mind with renting though
Hi mate, always really enjoy watching your climbing videos. Thought I'd just point out a little safety tip - when you're the climber please make sure to do your buddy checks. Your buddy has his right leg through an upside down harness loop. It's actually still going to do its job - BUT those DMM buckles are bulky and with it being inverted when he catches a fall theres a good chance of him also catching his nuts... Anyway - keep it up dude.
As much as I love your videos and fills me with joy when I see a new one on youtube (thanks for those coffee breaks btw), is there anything cooking on your other chanel? Like rope-jumping or a Kip Up or how to become a family ft. Kim, ...basically anything?
Thanks Mike for this Vid! I’m a regular at Perth UHI and even there on their tiny walls compared to EICA I’m super scared to take a big fall. This made re assured that’s there’s other with the exact same problem and it’s ok just do to it at my own pace. Thanks 😁 Keep the vids coming!!
One thing I noticed you not doing that help me progress a lot was finding resting spots on the route not resting on the rope but finding good places to give your arms that like 10 to 30 second rest so you can make that next hard move. Sometimes slower is faster.
Cool point of view. Im only just getting into sport climbing and over the winter go to Ratho (EICA) fairly regularly. But all of my climbing is flashes so i wonder what i could climb if i used the same approach as you. Thanks for getting me more into climbing.
If ur ever in Vancouver check out the Richmond olympic oval, it killed my fear of falling because every fall on there “feels” sketchy even though it safe. Some proper overhang too. Also you basically can’t toprope there so it forces lead
If your traditional fall practice is climbing a couple clips above the last point of protection and then falling like you said then no wonder you‘re scared😅 You crawl before you walk. Take small controlled „toprope“ falls below clipped quickdraw, then build up from there. Work as a team with your belayer. Give them feedback. Progress to taking bigger falls. Do „touch and fall“ where you go for a move and let go in motion. Or have the belayer tell you when to fall and try to let go without hesitating. Take the weird falls that scare you most - eg pendulum or simulating falling while clipping. I‘m also sometimes scared to hit the ground. Pre-clipping works. Doing fall practice near the ground works too, if your belayer really knows their stuff. It’s just not something many people do often I find - probably for a good reason as many belayers don’t know their stuff. Most important I find is to do fall training regularly. If you don’t the fear will likely come back.
Moving to an ohm and pinch for belaying took away my fear leading, which was more that the rope got away from them in a big fall or that they weren't paying enough attention. Helps if the routes are well protected too though.
One thing I've noticed in gyms everywhere is that the difficulty is given specially in the top half of the route, which makes sense for security reasons, so the 3 clips criteria may not be that important for indoor climbing but outside it's really useful. See in the video how at 12:30 is the 7a crux but before it was like.. 6b maximum?
I only boulder cause lead is terrifying but I think if I start I’m gonna think in a similar way to you. Those crazy falls where the climbing is 3-4 clips higher than where they’re clipped in just looks like something I never want to do. Also most of the fear comes when doing something unknown, if you try it in an easier way like using a different climb to get up their first it makes it so much less scary and manageable
The best reasons to climb in my opinion are for fun, fitness and friends. As long your climbing doesn't involve permanently changing something (e.g. chipping routes or bolding trad lines) and you are honest about how you climb something, it's all fair game! That said I do think there is a responsibility to those at the top level to respect the ethics of climbing (both local and overall) and work do maintain or develop them where needed. The same can be said for anybody developing a new area of climbing etc
Leaving the ground for the first time on a lead you are unsure about is quite the feeling sometimes. Practice whippers help ease the nerves especially the day you do them, if you are trying something and think you might fall, having already fallen will ease the nerves a ton i find. The other thing is spending time working on those clipping positions and going one handed on the wall for 5-10 seconds at a time. It wasnt my proudest moment but i accidentally cleaned my only protection about 15 feet off the ground once, but because of the nice solid position i was holding i was able to keep my cool and fix the clip.
Little note im not saying for your first time take a 2 clip whipper, more a day of tactic if you find yourself always getting stressed at clips. Same idea as killing the flash go.
At least in a gym: I get the most scared of whipping when I feel like I can just take, and I'm the least scared of whipping when I try to commit to just whip on everything. When my climbing partner is willing to do the "no-takes" session, I think it really creates an expectation that the belayer will always be 100% ready to catch everything, as well as sort of peer pressuring myself to just go for it.
I'd strongly recommend to clip between shoulder and harness level, unless you're in a very safe spot to clip high. Especially on the second and third clips, clipping them high is asking for decking. Clipping high may feel safer, but if you fall while clipping high, you're falling twice the distance from your last clip plus twice the distance from your knot and the next clip. This works out to the same total fall distance as if you fell from the next clip unclipped at your harness level, except the point where you start falling and the point where you get caught are both lower. That increases your risk of hitting the ground on the first few draws. Doubly so if you clip so high that you need to stretch and shift your feet for the clip, which also increases the risk of slipping at the worst possible moment. You could even deck from clipping the fourth like this. Just climb a bit higher. Clipping at belly level is way easier, it saves you a lot of energy, you don't need to bite the rope to get it up, which removes the risk of losing your teeth if you fall while clipping, and you'll get caught higher off the ground. Except, not on the first clip of course, clip the first one as soon as you can. The downside is that it feels scarier.
I keep my rope in a plastic bucket, such as plasterers use. Feed the rope in and tie the end to the handle when not in use. Untie when ready - it never tangles.
I used to have absolutely crippling fear of falling. What it helped me was controlled falls in the gym first, then I started to just jump whenever I felt scared of proceeding. Took me a year or so and then few months to implement this on rocks. Another thing what I learned and did was - singing in my head, which was recommended by a psychologist climber and it actually helped. The thing is that your brain tells you - "It's too high and if you fall you will get injured or die" and everything happens on subconscious level. Our task is to train the brain, that the result of falling will be a catch in the air by the rope, but it takes time. So first - controlled jumps in the gym, then every time you want to shout "Take" take a fall instead, then try to lead until failure (fall). Repeat this on rocks.
Regarding fall practice: Approach it gradually. Don’t instantly go 4m above the last quickdraw and force yourself to let go. What has also helped me is to slap against the wall so I don’t have to actvely release my hands. First time in the gym I was too scared to go to the top even in a 4a and now I’m fine skipping the last 2 quickdraws and falling.
How high is your leadwall? I am curious because in my gym (14 m high) not clipping the top anchor and last quickdraw is fine, but if you skipped the last two quickdraws I am sure I would get within 1or 2 meters of the ground.
@sportenapfeltorten2095 It’s also only 12 or 14m high. It kind of depends.The quickdraw spacing is not consistent, when the wall changes angle they are sometimes quite close together, even up high. In the roof here you can actually skip 3 quickdraws from the middle of the roof onwards and the top and it’s still fine, you only swing all the way to the main wall: www.alpenverein.at/linz-kletterzentrum_wAssets/img/weblication/wThumbnails/IMG_0504-a1aa4ccbf55d2f5g7fa6900a9cd45247.jpg
After 3 years of sport climbing I'm still afraid of falling even on top rope. In fact some falls on top rope I find even scarier than on lead, especially overhangs where you get huge swings and pendulums with the full length of the top rope (instead of the shorter length from the last clip). Might be related to some silly accidents I've had with pendulum situations, where you get accelerated and smashed into side part of the wall.
I was dropped by my belayers 3 times in the past 1.5 years. Fortunately never a grounder but twice from the top close to the ground so a huge free fall distance. Last time it happened lead to mental health issues in my everyday life and I'm having huge problems trusting my belayers now. I'm fighting through it but it's tough most of the times. Right now, when I'm on a project I usually have the courage to risk a fall but if it's not something on my limit I don't have the balls to risk a fall..
I ask my belayer to get out of the fall zone when im on the 2nd or 3rd clip and i ask them to have the rope straight until the 4th clip. Because I dont want to deck hard or hit them. And i cant recall having taken an uncontrolled fall prior to the 4th clip, it has always remained within my ability to letting it go carefully. From the 5th and so on i dont think about it and i appreciate more slack on the ready to reach the next clip
Buy a rope bag! You tie the top and bottom to different sides of the bag's tarp and you dramatically reduce the amount of flaking you need to do. Just open the bag, check it's not a mess, and go climbing.
Hey Mike, I've been loving the climbing content! It's been awesome to see your progress and dedication to the sport and I appreciate tf outta you💪 What climbing shoes have you been wearing for climbing and how true are they to actual size?
I wear Red Chili Voltage 2 in a 41. I'm a 42 street shoe. I wear 41.5 Scarpa and 41 LA Sportiva. The Voltages are cheap and fit me really well and have a little downturn. I'd buy them again.
Good video. Fun to wach :) Juust one question: Why you're clipping so early? if you do ine or two more moves You can clip more or the same confortable position without need to taking so much rope or using your moth to extend it and its faster
I did my first sports climb a few months ago now. Weeks of clipping practice and top ropping I finally went for it. I was full on Elvis Presley legging haha but I shouted at myself and got it done. Beyond over the moon when I was finished!
Just my own little side story on this, in case it helps anyone. I've been lead climbing for a couple years, and during this time had taken 0 falls by climbing well below my max grade just to "get some mileage and get comfortable clipping." One day, a strong friend wanted to do a lead session with me. We walked up to a harder route than usual and he said "there's no reason you can't climb this", and I had to admit he was right, so I gave it a go. Halfway up my hand just suddenly slipped and I fell....and was totally fine! This whole time, by clumbing easier stuff, I had the brain capacity to still think about the fall. But when I climbed something hard enough so I had to focus on just climbing, when I fell....by the time I realized what happened I was done falling 😊 that really helped my fear a ton. So the message is...climb hard enough to focus on the climb, don't even think about the fall (indoors).
Hey, I noticed you clip in the rope as soon as possible, at an arm's length. And I'm interested - were you told to do that? Because I was told to not do that if not necessary and clip in when the clip is below my shoulders. Reasoning being, it tires you faster because of how much rope you need to pull. But more importantly - if you fall while clipping in you are going to get a much bigger whipper because of all of that slack you need to clip in that far.
I think fall practice does work for a very select set of people who are already "adrenaline junkies", but whose minds just need the physical confirmation that things will be ok. I'm one of these people: before climbing I was already into climbing trees, jumping off cliffs into water, etc. I think especially in the modern day of more "normal" people being into climbing, this set of people only encompasses something like 5% of new climbers. In the olden days when safety gear wasn't as secure, you almost needed that adrenaline junkie mindset to be a climber, so I think that's where the "myth" of fall practice started.
I agree! I'm the opposite of an adrenaline junkie, and the only thing I got from the forced big fall practise we did on our lead course was to put me off leading forever. If you don't mind or actively enjoy the feeling of free fall, you'll be fine as soon as you learn that the rope will catch you. Whereas for me every practise fall proved that falling feels horrible. I don't really have a fear of heights, I'm totally happy on a top rope and auto belays, but I'd rather take the stairs than go down on one of those too fast elevators that make my stomach flip 😂 In those I'm in no way afraid of them crashing to the ground, only of the sensation I already know they're going to cause. (Also hate rollercoasters and water slides, anything that gives me that feeling really.)
The preference and desire to fall in a way that is quick and natural is fine at a point in time as it changes the unknowns into knowns which can help with specific fears of this and that 'safe' gym fall. It also assures you that your belayer does not have to make additional preparations for a fall which is clearly where you're at in the journey given you're warning your belayer of every fall instead of knowing they have the skills to keep you up in the event of a surprise. Consider this relevant to your last point about not overdoing it which is very real. That said, can't actually trust your belayer can catch you in nearly every situation? That's something you need to sort out together. With my partner I know for a fact I can whip on the first bolt and provided im not clipping the 2nd wildly overhead I'm not going to deck. First couple bolts have some distinct risks for sure, but there is an element of skill to be worked on for the belayer At some point it will also be necessary to be afraid for longer so you can have a clear head to make good decisions when you are afraid. Sometimes you need to determine if the situation is actually dangerous. Fall practice is not practicing the act of falling, it's getting exposed to a certain type of fear so it's not clouding your judgement. Getting up over a bolt on a fall you haven't taken and just taking it all in slowly, relaxing intentionally, getting comfy, and acknowledging that you'll be okay in the spot you chose to fall gives you the space to be in a more hazardous situation and still be able to decide if you should go up, go down, or fall. Sport climbing is not always the safe you said it should be. It just isn't. Calculated risk.
If you cut the footage of your send there's always going to be doubts if you actually did send it. I know you don't want, for the sake of video, show the whole send, but you can speed it up as you did at one of the tries in this very video. I started climbing around the same time as you, I think. I get scared only if I am pumped and I just know I don't have the stamina to pull myself in case there aren't any good holds before the next clip. So what I've been practicing now is learning how to rest on route. Learning how to get good feet and body position is the key in that. Also if you get in a bad position you need to calmly go a few steps back where you last felt good and rest there before continuing. That's what I think you also need to learn. Better footwork and resting.
Great! A big factor for me though is having a rational knowing that the fall will be safe/ok. Obviously outdoors you will sometimes have ledges and other factors that would make a fall really bad. People still end up with sprained ankles while still clipping all the clips on sport routes. Is it still safe to say that close to all gym falls will be fine?
Training your mind is like training a muscle. You have to pushed your comfort zone a little every time to get better but if you push too much too fast your going to pull a brain muscle!
Personally, what did it a lot for me was projecting, getting so obsessed with a route, a series of moves, that I stopped thinking about the falling. Of course I knew that no fall would be dangerous anywhere on those projects, which helped.
Projecting has definitely helped me too. It also increases the drive to succeed which then outshines the fear of falling!
It definitely helps to take the fall (if you are brave enough). I sometimes let go even after I do a move, just to be more relaxed on the send go.
I love your climbing content and how while you're publishing videos on climbing, you aren't currently another 'Magnus Midtbø' 9a level climber.
It makes your content much more relatable for me! xD
Worry not. I'll never be 9a 😂😂😂
“Can fall anywhere” is definitely true for the gym, and I’d say many routes above 10c-11a outdoors. But most 5.10b and below I’ve run into outdoors, I really don’t want to fall on many of the bolts due to ledges or just overall runout bolting of “easy” routes.
Kind of a cruel irony for new outdoor sport climbers, haha.
Totally agree. I'm far more comfy leading 6b and above because of this
This has been a huge issue for me as well. Easy routes outdoors are literally 50% no fall zones because of ledges and runouts, which makes outdoor lead climbing more terrifying than fun for me at the moment.
Having almost decked on my third outdoor climb ever i understand, but it can happen on harder too (5.11c in my case) it can be very crag dependent. looking for a nice slight overhang is often the best for beginners but nature sometimes has other plans, also easier slabs might feel sketchy as hell on lead but might actually be your safest option. Remember to exercise common sense and caution.
your climbing has gotten so much better, keep it up!
Thanks, will do!
Something that hurts to think about mentally is that clipping from the intended clipping position tends to be safer. When you are clipping from below the bolt, you have even more slack out than normal, and the holds/positions that you are on tend to be worse. It's hard to train on harder routes, but making sure to do this on easier climbs helped me a lot. Also saves more energy, so you can save more!!
I feel like mostly the intended clipping position is when the bolt is around your waist or chest and not so high up you have to extend your arm to reach it. But I guess people want to clip as early as possible most of the time. Wouldn't 10:59 be a quite reasonable clipping position? Instead he clipped at 10:12 when he was way below and had to pull out a lot of slack and even securing it with the teeth to pull out more. (I get it that you have to do that sometimes, but here it seems unnecessary risky, he wasn't even that high up at that point)
Your observations on reducing fear are spot on! I work with fears a lot as an animal trainer, and there's so much incredibly harmful "fall practise" happening on that field too. People think they're doing desensitisation, but end up just sensitising their animals even more to whatever they were afraid of.
Desensitisation as a method works, but only if it's done correctly. Barely stepping out of the comfort zone for a short time, then returning before the fear has a chance to grow. It takes lots of succesful repetition over time, done in relatively short sessions to avoid trigger stacking. (Trigger stacking basically means exposure to multiple scary triggers at the same time or in quick succession without an adequate recovery time, so the overall stress level keeps growing. Physiologically it means stress hormone levels rising higher and higher, since it takes time to get rid of them. Hence even smaller things suddenly feel too much.)
Pure exposure to prove that something is safe can only work if the individual doesn't get a bad experience. Nobody else can decide what counts as a bad experience for you. If you try a method and it makes the fear worse, it means it was an overall bad experience, even if you didn't crash to the floor or physically hurt yourself. For someone else the exactly same thing might be perfectly fine, or even fun.
22:13 That "it's okay" makes all the difference in the world. It happened to me to climb with people that were more experienced than me, and with them it was not "okay" to be scared. You just had to grind your teeth and push through. To them being scared was something to be annihilated, not embraced. Remember guys to have supporting mates around, climbing can be really harsh on your mind!
Went lead climbing for the first time yesterday. Had a mate with me who`s been climbing for 20+ years. He showed me everything calmly and we progressed from doing 1-2 clips to doing full routes pretty fast, because I felt comfortably. But doing actually fall practice with him was a huge relief for me in the first session.
Here's something that worked for me. I noticed that I was often afraid of taking the same size fall leading as I would from a boulder, but the latter was never a concern. Why? Because landing on a mat is a controlled variable - you become used to the distance you are going to fall, what you are landing on, and consequently how to arrange your body and feet in a split second. Leading does not have this known factor, as the distance you'll fall is dependant on how far above the bolt you are. I was often scared even to let go and fall of my own volition, preferring for it to take me by surprise so I wouldn't have to think about it. So, to make the fall a more predictable experience I practiced climbing above the bolt, just a little bit, and estimating where my feet would hit the wall, and visualising how and where I would land. What I discovered is that I was always way off - totally underestimating or overestimating how and where I would come to a stop. After only a session's practice I was able to already dial in this uncontrolled element, and I was soon taking big, controlled falls with almost no fear. It was suddenly like a rope swing! I think that this falling awareness aspect is something very young climbers intuitively understand. It's worth trying if you find falling scary - just repeatedly take deliberate falls with all the concentration just beforehand on where your feet will land, and how it will feel, and where your body will be. See how far off you were and then take another from the same height with the new knowledge in mind. It will feel completely different,and over time you'll get better at estimating!
I was shouting 'Feet!' at the screen every time you got out of your comfort zone! You would really flail with your feet most times before taking a fall, then as your confidence of the route grew, you would move your feet just fine at the same point on the route. Something that helped me was when I felt near my limit, instead of looking for the next hand hold, look to your feet instead. I have saved myself from falling by finding a better foot position so many times!
I just couldn't figure out the feet at the cruxy bit! Arrrggjhh
One thing I'd like to point out, that really helped me, is forgetting about the grade. I noticed in this video you put a really big emphasis on 7a being your limit. This can be good to know what grades to try but when your climbing this can hold you back. I used to always have the thoughts "oh this is my project grade so i know Im going to fall" or "I cant climb that its above anything ive done before". About a year ago i really worked on it and without really gaining any more strength i shot up in what i could climb because i was able to relax a lot more.
What i do now is try to fall in love with moves. I look at a climb, asses the moves, and look for areas or parts of a climb that are fun and exciting and try to think "ooo id love to try that move up there". This reminds me of your bouldering video where u started projecting and you shifted your mindset and you were able to climb so much harder. I think the same thing can be applied to sport climbiing. Grade chasing is one thing but letting a grade hold you back due to fear of difficulty is also just as valid and totally possible
I actually love this approach and I've been doing something similar as well. I haven't done it consciously but anytime I see a climb that's *supposedly* above my skill level, I always go like "nah that looks doable", and wouldn't you know, it's not! But with this approach there's also been a handful of times when I've actually beaten a climb that I fully believed I was too weak for. So absolutely, ignore the level you think you're at, and just try whatever piques your interest
I resonate a lot with that second point. For me, the love of the movement is the force that drives me past the fear of falling.
When I started climbing I was very often in fight or flight, but then I relaxed as I started to enjoy balancing, reaching, grabbing, repositioning, and sinking in.
Yo Mike, been watching you sense I was a kiddo and you came out with some Rubik’s cube video. Loved your mindset and followed you sense. Love to see you working the climbing mindsets as I remembered you when I had to develop mine. Trust your gear and send man!
For me best way to get over fear of falling was while warming up on an easy lead, belayer shouts up 'Fall!' - when we started did absolutely mini falls, gradually make it more and more every session so that it's never bad (and because you are (meant to) fall off straight away, don't have the same issues with shouting down and thinking about falling for 20s) , do it as part of the warmup, becomes no big deal pretty quick
I've done this a lot too. Works great IF the belayer doesnt push the climber too much.
@@khx-x5h Great idea, also because it makes you stop worrying if your belayer is paying attention.
bored as fuck been scrolling youtube for 5 minutes finding nothing, this pops up from 30 seconds ago, the heavens answered
hope you enjoy it 🙏
@@MikeBoydClimbs I'm thankfully falling back into my bouldering addiction after having a lazy few months, love watching these videos on recovery days to scratch the itch. Went Ratho (EICA) a few years ago the place is mad
Hangdogging is brilliant. Honestly it's the best way to gain exposure and really learn a route.
Mike, I'd recommend trying to 2nd go a route like the one in the video after a thorough hangdog mission, like you did here. But with another bit of key tactics I use for 2nd go attempts: Climb the crux sections again while being lowered, Have your belayer stop in a handful of places on the way down so you can find the rest positions, look for efficiencies that will save you energy - i.e. anything that might give you trouble on the way up. It requires a patient belayer for sure, but I think is an excellent use of time and tactics. That way, when I pull on for the 2nd go off the ground, I've got as much information as I possibly could retain and a better plan than if I didn't do the extra rehearsals on the lower.
Hey great video! I've also felt that traditional fall practice doesn't really work, it's too harsh and people usually are more afraid than before. What I've used to help people who are afraid of falling is a fall practice divided by steps. When I do this it's always on routes that are easy for them and the idea is to make little falls that lead to bigger falls. I usually make them fall first with the last clip in front of their face ( basically top rope), then the last clip in front of their chest, then crotch, then knees, then feet and finally on the next clip (if the next clip is too far you can do another fall at the midpoint). It works really well for most people and you can do it as many times as you need and whenever you need, I still use it when I'm not feeling confident and it can be the difference between a very frustrating day at the crag and a very fun one. Hope this helps :)
What you described just sounds like traditional fall practice. One thing i would add to make it a bit more effective is to repeat the same fall from the same place a few times before increasing the height. This way you can really feel the difference in your nerves between the first and next few tries. The aim is to feel comfortable with what you previously found scary. Also, if subsequent falls are _more_ scary than the initial fall then you're pushing too much and need to ease off.
Thanks for the video Mike! A lot of it was really relatable. Leading above protection has always been quite difficult, also to the point that it affects my performance, and I've also found that trying to push myself to just keep going or taking big falls was detrimentally scary. A lot of the principles you suggest are also things that've worked for me!
I'd also add that a massive one for me while doing my exploratory attempts going bolt to bolt is to find my preferred clipping positions. The unknown is a massive stress when I'm on lead, so knowing that this specific hold or position is going to feel the best for the next clip can help me stay calm and relaxed when I'm above protection. There's nothing more stressful to me than climbing into the unknown, feeling the fatigue and still not knowing if the clipping positions are going to get any better or if I've climbed too far to clip.
Secondly, practicing different clipping heights on progressively harder routes has helped me feel more comfortable when leading at my limit. Our gym has a couple of nice 6a routes that we often warm up on, and they've been set really well to put the ideal clipping position with the quickdraw at waist height. At first it felt a bit run out, but over time I gradually got used to clipping around my waist, which is much quicker and easier than clipping above your head. While sometimes outdoors this isn't possible and you should prioritise the safest position in the case of features on the wall, it's been a good thing to practice indoors, as it's built some exposure to small run outs, and has also helped me prioritise the position efficiency. It's somewhat counter-intuitive, but clipping a draw that at arms reach above actually adds more rope into the system and would cause a greater fall if you fell before clipping. Plus, it takes longer to pull up the rope you need. So yeah, where possible especially on non-limit routes it's been really helpful to clip at waist height.
Loving the progress brother! Thanks the inspiration!
Great tips! Outdoors, I spend a lot of time turning draws around to optimise clipping on the redpoint. This can't be done indoors with perma-draws but it helps with the practice. Thanks for watching!
Totally agree about your point on fall pratice. I find that throwing for a move and letting go is so much more valuable than letting go which just feels so unnatural and scary.
Guys please clip between shoulder and waist height not at Maximum reach
nice to see you having come so far from your first times climbing, you seem like your processes have matured a lot! can’t wait for the training arc of board and max pull ups and the outdoor movies of climbing in scotland :,)
Regarding pre-clipping the first 3 quickdraws: In most indoor routes you don’t have to do any risky clips for the first 3 or 4 quickdraws (unless the route is way above your skill level). As long as you are focused it’s highly unlikely you’ll fall. Indoors they also intentionally place the quickdraws below 5m much closer together.
At the EICA I can confirm they try to make the first moves very easy for clipping
In the gym in Germany where I was a few times, the difficult routes also started hard. In the end its better to preclip instead of falling because of false ambition.
@@MF-CLIMB sry
Well not in my gym 😆 I've made at least 30 ground falls (around first draw)
Your progress over the last few months has been insane - Congrats! Great video as always :)
Funny timing, I had my first lead climbing class yesterday! Seeing this makes me feel very lucky to not be (too) scared of falling! Great video, thanks for all you do :)
Good video. One of the good things about EICA is the clips feel so close together and since they are so long I spend less time scared that I am going to ground fall. Whereas at my local gym GCC with shorter routes that feel difficult from the first move I often am worried about a ground fall for a longer percentage of the climb. I’m also a serial high clipper when scared so being further off the ground helps with that.
Serial high clipper here, too 🙋♂️
@ easy done especially if you feel set in your current position when doing it. Any recommendations for favourite climbs/ crags in Kalymnos going in May?
@@MikeBoydClimbs Yeah was wondering if it was your clipping that's odd or mine
@@thenayancat8802 Don't clip high, it's dangerous.
@ I don't tend to, I felt a bit sketched out watching the clips here
Had my second session at EICA today, and my first time on top rope after only bouldering for a year. Thanks for all the great content
That wall looks amazing
It's a great training venue
The first thing we did for fall practice was to let go of the final hold as soon as we had made the top clip. This way you take a little fall as there is some slack in the system but you are effectively on top rope so you have more confidence to let go. After a few goes, we began gaving a little extra slack for a slightly longer fall but still on tope rope. This gets you more used to the feeling of falling and being caught without the anxiety of being above the bolt. This really did help me and allowed me to begin taking practice lead falls which were previously terrifying.
some things ive changed to make flaking/prepping my rope easier: coil the rope with one strand instead of pairs of strands to avoid tangling later (it appears the pairing technique was used because of how the bights pair up); when using a rope tarp, avoid coiling and roll the tarp more often, like a tight crêpe so to avoid the rope flowing over itself; in the gym use a big open tote bag, like an ikea bag and its ready to go, rarely ever needing to be flaked.
Hi Mike,
This is my first time watching a video of yours. RUclips recommended this one to me today.
Thank you for the video.
I have the same issue you used to have. My partner is significantly lighter and I am indeed scared of falling and hitting her or the ground.
I will test your tips and I am looking forward to seeing how/if those work for me.
Thanks again. Great video.
Cheers
Great video, Mike! My feelings about falling seem to be really similar to yours, although I'm earlier on in my climbing journey, and at a much more preliminary stage of working through it.
I feel the same about intentional fall practice. Weirdly, I actually find genuine whippers very fun, but only when i haven't had too much time to think about them. A coach at my local gym recently suggested that perhaps i was thinking too much about it falling because I was climbing routes way below my limit (to 'get used to' climbing lead) which means the moves weren't challenging enough to occupy all my focus. I certainly feel like I've plateaued recently despite knowing I'm definitely stronger and more skilled.
So i really like the idea of spending more time just going clip to clip on harder routes as you did with the climb, and slowly working on progress up the wall rather than feeling pressure to send 'because i should be able to climb this grade'. It's fun not to just be working on jug ladders anyway! 😅
Also agree that climbing top rope first isn't really helpful for me personally - often the moves and positioning feel really different.
Glad this video came along right now - just when i needed it!
Omg that green 7a looks like such a dream, what a nice route 😍
Love this, especially the practical suggestions.
I'm loving the new channel! I don't however know anything about climbing, I'd love to see some little popups or just moments when you explain the terminology you are using. I have no idea what flashing a route, or redpointing is. But would love to learn
If it's only a couple of terms per episode, maybe you can just google those? Would be tiring for climbers to watch if all the climbing channels started showing popups explaining the super super basic lingo.
When I was studying overseas my university had a climbing program. The teacher, from basically session 2 after he knew we were physically able to climb, encouraged us to lead climb every session. Got to say, that helped immensely in getting better really fast and confronting fear of falling.
Thanks Mike, great video. Strugglling with a similar issue myself. Sometimes I get in the right zone, and lead with confidence. Other times I don't.
I like the 'can' fall process.
This is very cool. I was just thinking about this a few weeks ago. The climber is only as good as he is brave, which becomes shockingly apparent when you get out there and start climbing for real.
If you want to explore this further go to. Free solo Alex Honold or The Alpinist for more extreme stuff
Awesome Mike!! Thank you for your vulnerability and sharing that with us. I just started leading routes and this video was super helpful!
Good luck! I'm sure you'll smash it!
That last bit is helpful, and actually for me a big part of being ok with falling / managing fear of falling is to climb a chill route first during warmup and being very intentional on clipping only when the bolt is at my harness instead of above me etc. This allows to keep practicing being over bolts, and also gives me a good idea of my mental state. Some days I’ll just get scared doing that on my warm up 5a/b, and then I know it’s just no the right day and it’s ok.
You perfectly described my own experience with learning to be comfortable with lead climbing. I will also add that every route is different and you should treat them as such (especially outdoors). Some routes will have moves that are a lot more scary than others even at the same height above the clip and on the same wall. You need to consider how you might swing and avoid any awkward slams into the wall. To tackle this i just do mini practice falls on each of those uncomfortable sections until they start to feel comfortable and my body learns how to respond to the swing.
Ratho is incredible. Absolutely world-class route setting. ❤
Sick video Mike! Be careful with your feet man, there were a 2-3 moments in this video where it could've been a gnarly fall cause the rope was behind your foot!
That's what i came to say
Great video! And totally agree with you that the best way to practice falling is just to try hard and fall naturally (when the bolting is sporty enough)
2:52 Get a rope bag....i don't coil up my rope anymore....just have it loose on the sheath. just have to go through the rope once and it's nice :)
4:48 the route setters know this and usually, you have the hard moves not before the 3rd bolt. Some Gyms (my gym for example) has mats or semi nice floor to fall on, if something goes wrong. In addition for outside, i learned to put down the rope as a makeshift crashpad and look for a good landing.
8:15 i try not toprope, but more like a toprope with clipped bolts, you have to unclip. it is a different type, and i think it is harder. therefore, when i can do this, i usually can lead a route. But you are right. Leading a route is always the better option.
11:15 you are clipping really early. Think about your clip positions. Being higher up, when clipping, is less of a fall. The fear of falling works into your clip positions, as you are scared and clip really early. I am not free of this and do this as well.
13:50 That is how you should practice fall training. not just jumping in, but more from a climbing move.
14:09 That is a trusting process. I usually see my climbing partner struggling and he/she doesn't have to say anything. i know what is going to happen, and when he/she will let go. That is down to the belayer. He/She has you. You don't have to say anything.
But two cents about it :D
1:36 such an epiphany for me and it seems so obvious in retrospect - just do something a little outside your comfort zone then allow yourself to calm down. Thank you so much for the video!
Falling has definitely been (and still is) a struggle for me as well. I’ve also found dogging a route to really help, it’s the unknown of the upcoming holds and clipping position that gets me. Once I know and focus on the moves, it’s much less scary
Thank you so much for this! I’m just getting into lead climbing, and am in the exact same boat as you are
I love the comments here. They are so helpful. I also love that Mike is wearing a helmet. I wish that were the norm ❤
I found fall practice helpful and got used to taking big falls quickly, but that did not immediately translate to taking unanticipated falls. One tip is that if you're getting too scared waiting to fall, you should dial back the intensity slightly and let go as soon as you decide where to fall. You don't need to let the belayer know. They should be ready to catch a fall no matter what, especially if you tell them on the ground. If you can figure out an effective way to add some fall training, it could be quite beneficial as you can take many more falls than if you were falling from climbing hard.
The fact that it's relatively safe to take huuuuuuge falls, makes me love this sport even more. Falling can be so much fun, but you've gotta learn to enjoy it
I've found that pushing through the fear is counterproductive since you're always training with fear in mind. I try to increase my comfort zone by falling where I feel comfortable until that is boring so that I want to go a bit higher above the clip. That way progress much faster.
Totally agree with what you've said so far (halfway through the video) especially giving up on the flash go. I don't sport climb (I boulder) - but nothing is more unhelpful than the pressure to keep going when your nervous system is overwhelmed. For me, I found allowing myself to walk away for a bit, try something else, after having challenged myself on a scary boulder is a good way to go about it. Wouldn't say it helps to send that particular boulder, but I've noticed over time that things have gotten less scary and that it generally calms me down because I don't also worry about feeling the pressure that I 'should' push myself further than what is comfortable or even realistic.
Edit: Exactly the point you made at the end :D I'm so glad you've had the same experience.
Getting out of a permanent "no fall" mentality is super important. However a permanent "yes fall" mentality can be risky. It's important to make objective assessments of the situation and make sure that when you go into a "no fall" mentality it's based on actual risk and danger. IE if there's a ledge or a roof you are at risk of hitting in a fall outdoors. I also think that fall practice can you really useful but should be built up very incramentally, you are totally correct that if you are constantly entering a panic state before the fall it is counter productive. Fall practice should be incremental, push you slightly out of your comfort zone, but not trigger a high anxiety state, and distance and intensity of fall should only increase once you have brought the previous fall into your comfort zone. When I worked with Arno Ilgner from Rock Warriors way we started our lead fall practice clipped above our heads, essentially on top rope. The biggest benefit I got from this fall practice is learning how to direct my body off the wall, where to direct my gaze, and how to assess my fall mid fall to identify hazards to avoid. You can only start addressing all of that if the falls are simple and not scary to begin with, and then you can add more exposure and fall distance incramentally as you improve your ability to react in that split second.
So the seed mike planted in my brain about a year ago with his first climbing video has finally sprouted and I've been to the climbing gym a few times now.
It's been fun! Steep learning curve for a heavy bloke approaching 40, but fun. Let's see if I'm still doing it in another year.
At some point I just started leading everything. Especially in a gym it's always pretty safe if you don't go way above your level.
If I have a good day and am climbing with my main partner I can actually go to physical failure now. That doesn't work everyday though and only works, when I didn't take a longer break from climbing.
It feels super great to make it up 3 more draws or so, when you felt like you were about to fall a minute ago. Sometimes even sending, but just figuring out how much is still in the tank and sometimes just using some different muscles on the next hold let's you relax a bit and you can keep going for one more hold. And then another one. And maybe one more.
Takes time and practice though and sometimes I have comfort days, where I just go draw to draw.
I have a massive weight discprency between my me and my wife, I am twice her weight. So I was pretty anxious regarding falling. However, we did get the Edelrid Ohm and it works super well, really helped my head game on lead.
I also programed fall training, similar experience to you. It helped me trust the gear though. What fall training realy helped though was from a belayer perspective to tain giving soft catches... something I wasn't great at and something people don't talk about much ito fall practice. Personally I feel more comfortable falling if I know my belayer will give me a soft catch and I can trust them
2:40 get a rope tarp, seriously the best $30 I've ever spent
Or a rope bucket. I use a soft collapsible one made for collecting yard clippings. Not having to flake every time is great. You should still inspect your rope regularly though.
I use an IKEA bag. Cheaper and same functionality
I'm not worried about the mount itself failing but the door frame. Lotta times those are tacked in place with little nails.
They work off bracing on the other side when you give it weight so the actual door frame doesn’t take as much as you’d think. Never seen the classic pull up bars with the same system take the door frame off anyway, i think just how it distributes weight makes it quite unlikely.
It can sometimes mark the wall above the door frame which is something to keep in mind with renting though
Hi mate, always really enjoy watching your climbing videos. Thought I'd just point out a little safety tip - when you're the climber please make sure to do your buddy checks. Your buddy has his right leg through an upside down harness loop. It's actually still going to do its job - BUT those DMM buckles are bulky and with it being inverted when he catches a fall theres a good chance of him also catching his nuts... Anyway - keep it up dude.
Nice mentality here: "Yes, it takes away from the pure send, but I don't care." And you shouldn't. Setting the right priorities 👌 4:35
As much as I love your videos and fills me with joy when I see a new one on youtube (thanks for those coffee breaks btw), is there anything cooking on your other chanel? Like rope-jumping or a Kip Up or how to become a family ft. Kim, ...basically anything?
Got one cooking right now!
Thanks Mike for this Vid! I’m a regular at Perth UHI and even there on their tiny walls compared to EICA I’m super scared to take a big fall. This made re assured that’s there’s other with the exact same problem and it’s ok just do to it at my own pace. Thanks 😁 Keep the vids coming!!
The Perth walls are great! Ultra hot though 💦😓
Thanks for watching!
Haha too right 😅
One thing I noticed you not doing that help me progress a lot was finding resting spots on the route not resting on the rope but finding good places to give your arms that like 10 to 30 second rest so you can make that next hard move. Sometimes slower is faster.
Cool point of view. Im only just getting into sport climbing and over the winter go to Ratho (EICA) fairly regularly. But all of my climbing is flashes so i wonder what i could climb if i used the same approach as you. Thanks for getting me more into climbing.
If ur ever in Vancouver check out the Richmond olympic oval, it killed my fear of falling because every fall on there “feels” sketchy even though it safe. Some proper overhang too. Also you basically can’t toprope there so it forces lead
Great video - hope we get to see you try the new boulders at Ratho too!
Coming up soon!
If your traditional fall practice is climbing a couple clips above the last point of protection and then falling like you said then no wonder you‘re scared😅
You crawl before you walk. Take small controlled „toprope“ falls below clipped quickdraw, then build up from there. Work as a team with your belayer. Give them feedback. Progress to taking bigger falls. Do „touch and fall“ where you go for a move and let go in motion. Or have the belayer tell you when to fall and try to let go without hesitating. Take the weird falls that scare you most - eg pendulum or simulating falling while clipping.
I‘m also sometimes scared to hit the ground. Pre-clipping works. Doing fall practice near the ground works too, if your belayer really knows their stuff. It’s just not something many people do often I find - probably for a good reason as many belayers don’t know their stuff.
Most important I find is to do fall training regularly. If you don’t the fear will likely come back.
Moving to an ohm and pinch for belaying took away my fear leading, which was more that the rope got away from them in a big fall or that they weren't paying enough attention. Helps if the routes are well protected too though.
On ya Mike. Awesome tick. 😊
One thing I've noticed in gyms everywhere is that the difficulty is given specially in the top half of the route, which makes sense for security reasons, so the 3 clips criteria may not be that important for indoor climbing but outside it's really useful. See in the video how at 12:30 is the 7a crux but before it was like.. 6b maximum?
I only boulder cause lead is terrifying but I think if I start I’m gonna think in a similar way to you. Those crazy falls where the climbing is 3-4 clips higher than where they’re clipped in just looks like something I never want to do. Also most of the fear comes when doing something unknown, if you try it in an easier way like using a different climb to get up their first it makes it so much less scary and manageable
The best reasons to climb in my opinion are for fun, fitness and friends. As long your climbing doesn't involve permanently changing something (e.g. chipping routes or bolding trad lines) and you are honest about how you climb something, it's all fair game!
That said I do think there is a responsibility to those at the top level to respect the ethics of climbing (both local and overall) and work do maintain or develop them where needed. The same can be said for anybody developing a new area of climbing etc
Leaving the ground for the first time on a lead you are unsure about is quite the feeling sometimes. Practice whippers help ease the nerves especially the day you do them, if you are trying something and think you might fall, having already fallen will ease the nerves a ton i find. The other thing is spending time working on those clipping positions and going one handed on the wall for 5-10 seconds at a time. It wasnt my proudest moment but i accidentally cleaned my only protection about 15 feet off the ground once, but because of the nice solid position i was holding i was able to keep my cool and fix the clip.
Little note im not saying for your first time take a 2 clip whipper, more a day of tactic if you find yourself always getting stressed at clips. Same idea as killing the flash go.
At least in a gym: I get the most scared of whipping when I feel like I can just take, and I'm the least scared of whipping when I try to commit to just whip on everything. When my climbing partner is willing to do the "no-takes" session, I think it really creates an expectation that the belayer will always be 100% ready to catch everything, as well as sort of peer pressuring myself to just go for it.
I'd strongly recommend to clip between shoulder and harness level, unless you're in a very safe spot to clip high. Especially on the second and third clips, clipping them high is asking for decking.
Clipping high may feel safer, but if you fall while clipping high, you're falling twice the distance from your last clip plus twice the distance from your knot and the next clip. This works out to the same total fall distance as if you fell from the next clip unclipped at your harness level, except the point where you start falling and the point where you get caught are both lower.
That increases your risk of hitting the ground on the first few draws.
Doubly so if you clip so high that you need to stretch and shift your feet for the clip, which also increases the risk of slipping at the worst possible moment. You could even deck from clipping the fourth like this.
Just climb a bit higher. Clipping at belly level is way easier, it saves you a lot of energy, you don't need to bite the rope to get it up, which removes the risk of losing your teeth if you fall while clipping, and you'll get caught higher off the ground.
Except, not on the first clip of course, clip the first one as soon as you can.
The downside is that it feels scarier.
I keep my rope in a plastic bucket, such as plasterers use. Feed the rope in and tie the end to the handle when not in use. Untie when ready - it never tangles.
I used to have absolutely crippling fear of falling. What it helped me was controlled falls in the gym first, then I started to just jump whenever I felt scared of proceeding. Took me a year or so and then few months to implement this on rocks. Another thing what I learned and did was - singing in my head, which was recommended by a psychologist climber and it actually helped. The thing is that your brain tells you - "It's too high and if you fall you will get injured or die" and everything happens on subconscious level. Our task is to train the brain, that the result of falling will be a catch in the air by the rope, but it takes time.
So first - controlled jumps in the gym, then every time you want to shout "Take" take a fall instead, then try to lead until failure (fall). Repeat this on rocks.
7a lead! Well done, those are good numbers
Regarding fall practice: Approach it gradually. Don’t instantly go 4m above the last quickdraw and force yourself to let go. What has also helped me is to slap against the wall so I don’t have to actvely release my hands. First time in the gym I was too scared to go to the top even in a 4a and now I’m fine skipping the last 2 quickdraws and falling.
This is something loads of people do at the gym and I've never had the courage to do it!
How high is your leadwall?
I am curious because in my gym (14 m high) not clipping the top anchor and last quickdraw is fine, but if you skipped the last two quickdraws I am sure I would get within 1or 2 meters of the ground.
@sportenapfeltorten2095 It’s also only 12 or 14m high. It kind of depends.The quickdraw spacing is not consistent, when the wall changes angle they are sometimes quite close together, even up high. In the roof here you can actually skip 3 quickdraws from the middle of the roof onwards and the top and it’s still fine, you only swing all the way to the main wall: www.alpenverein.at/linz-kletterzentrum_wAssets/img/weblication/wThumbnails/IMG_0504-a1aa4ccbf55d2f5g7fa6900a9cd45247.jpg
Yes mike!
2:40 get yourself en Edelrid Tillit rope bag. You will never have to flake again and it is very usefull for multi pitch climbing.
Ratho is scarier for me than most outdoor crags even though its objectively safer. Something about the exposure of the big overhangs.
Honestly really helpful vid thanks, damn I hate falling but I love climbing 😭.
After 3 years of sport climbing I'm still afraid of falling even on top rope. In fact some falls on top rope I find even scarier than on lead, especially overhangs where you get huge swings and pendulums with the full length of the top rope (instead of the shorter length from the last clip). Might be related to some silly accidents I've had with pendulum situations, where you get accelerated and smashed into side part of the wall.
I was dropped by my belayers 3 times in the past 1.5 years. Fortunately never a grounder but twice from the top close to the ground so a huge free fall distance. Last time it happened lead to mental health issues in my everyday life and I'm having huge problems trusting my belayers now. I'm fighting through it but it's tough most of the times. Right now, when I'm on a project I usually have the courage to risk a fall but if it's not something on my limit I don't have the balls to risk a fall..
I ask my belayer to get out of the fall zone when im on the 2nd or 3rd clip and i ask them to have the rope straight until the 4th clip. Because I dont want to deck hard or hit them. And i cant recall having taken an uncontrolled fall prior to the 4th clip, it has always remained within my ability to letting it go carefully. From the 5th and so on i dont think about it and i appreciate more slack on the ready to reach the next clip
Buy a rope bag! You tie the top and bottom to different sides of the bag's tarp and you dramatically reduce the amount of flaking you need to do. Just open the bag, check it's not a mess, and go climbing.
Hey Mike, I've been loving the climbing content! It's been awesome to see your progress and dedication to the sport and I appreciate tf outta you💪 What climbing shoes have you been wearing for climbing and how true are they to actual size?
I wear Red Chili Voltage 2 in a 41. I'm a 42 street shoe.
I wear 41.5 Scarpa and 41 LA Sportiva.
The Voltages are cheap and fit me really well and have a little downturn. I'd buy them again.
@MikeBoydClimbs appreciate it. Hope you have a dope ass day💪
Good video. Fun to wach :) Juust one question: Why you're clipping so early? if you do ine or two more moves You can clip more or the same confortable position without need to taking so much rope or using your moth to extend it and its faster
hell yeah another climbing video
tho i want to see and oldschool mike on main
I did my first sports climb a few months ago now. Weeks of clipping practice and top ropping I finally went for it. I was full on Elvis Presley legging haha but I shouted at myself and got it done. Beyond over the moon when I was finished!
Good job!!!
Love the summit dance 🕺 I do the same 😊
Just my own little side story on this, in case it helps anyone. I've been lead climbing for a couple years, and during this time had taken 0 falls by climbing well below my max grade just to "get some mileage and get comfortable clipping." One day, a strong friend wanted to do a lead session with me. We walked up to a harder route than usual and he said "there's no reason you can't climb this", and I had to admit he was right, so I gave it a go. Halfway up my hand just suddenly slipped and I fell....and was totally fine!
This whole time, by clumbing easier stuff, I had the brain capacity to still think about the fall. But when I climbed something hard enough so I had to focus on just climbing, when I fell....by the time I realized what happened I was done falling 😊 that really helped my fear a ton. So the message is...climb hard enough to focus on the climb, don't even think about the fall (indoors).
Why the helmet inside? Ive never seen that in a gym.
Hey, I noticed you clip in the rope as soon as possible, at an arm's length. And I'm interested - were you told to do that?
Because I was told to not do that if not necessary and clip in when the clip is below my shoulders. Reasoning being, it tires you faster because of how much rope you need to pull.
But more importantly - if you fall while clipping in you are going to get a much bigger whipper because of all of that slack you need to clip in that far.
I try to clip wherever it is best. Sometimes I get scared and clip when I am too low. This is a bad habit
I had big problem with falling on self belay went on rope with person and was chill ever since. Still little bit of anxiety but i feel much safer
I think fall practice does work for a very select set of people who are already "adrenaline junkies", but whose minds just need the physical confirmation that things will be ok. I'm one of these people: before climbing I was already into climbing trees, jumping off cliffs into water, etc. I think especially in the modern day of more "normal" people being into climbing, this set of people only encompasses something like 5% of new climbers. In the olden days when safety gear wasn't as secure, you almost needed that adrenaline junkie mindset to be a climber, so I think that's where the "myth" of fall practice started.
I agree! I'm the opposite of an adrenaline junkie, and the only thing I got from the forced big fall practise we did on our lead course was to put me off leading forever. If you don't mind or actively enjoy the feeling of free fall, you'll be fine as soon as you learn that the rope will catch you. Whereas for me every practise fall proved that falling feels horrible. I don't really have a fear of heights, I'm totally happy on a top rope and auto belays, but I'd rather take the stairs than go down on one of those too fast elevators that make my stomach flip 😂 In those I'm in no way afraid of them crashing to the ground, only of the sensation I already know they're going to cause. (Also hate rollercoasters and water slides, anything that gives me that feeling really.)
The preference and desire to fall in a way that is quick and natural is fine at a point in time as it changes the unknowns into knowns which can help with specific fears of this and that 'safe' gym fall. It also assures you that your belayer does not have to make additional preparations for a fall which is clearly where you're at in the journey given you're warning your belayer of every fall instead of knowing they have the skills to keep you up in the event of a surprise. Consider this relevant to your last point about not overdoing it which is very real.
That said, can't actually trust your belayer can catch you in nearly every situation? That's something you need to sort out together. With my partner I know for a fact I can whip on the first bolt and provided im not clipping the 2nd wildly overhead I'm not going to deck. First couple bolts have some distinct risks for sure, but there is an element of skill to be worked on for the belayer
At some point it will also be necessary to be afraid for longer so you can have a clear head to make good decisions when you are afraid. Sometimes you need to determine if the situation is actually dangerous. Fall practice is not practicing the act of falling, it's getting exposed to a certain type of fear so it's not clouding your judgement. Getting up over a bolt on a fall you haven't taken and just taking it all in slowly, relaxing intentionally, getting comfy, and acknowledging that you'll be okay in the spot you chose to fall gives you the space to be in a more hazardous situation and still be able to decide if you should go up, go down, or fall. Sport climbing is not always the safe you said it should be. It just isn't. Calculated risk.
If you cut the footage of your send there's always going to be doubts if you actually did send it. I know you don't want, for the sake of video, show the whole send, but you can speed it up as you did at one of the tries in this very video.
I started climbing around the same time as you, I think. I get scared only if I am pumped and I just know I don't have the stamina to pull myself in case there aren't any good holds before the next clip. So what I've been practicing now is learning how to rest on route. Learning how to get good feet and body position is the key in that. Also if you get in a bad position you need to calmly go a few steps back where you last felt good and rest there before continuing. That's what I think you also need to learn. Better footwork and resting.
Same problem, so very interested by this video, thanks !
Good to hear!
@@MikeBoydClimbs This video helped a lot, thanks so much ! :D
Great! A big factor for me though is having a rational knowing that the fall will be safe/ok. Obviously outdoors you will sometimes have ledges and other factors that would make a fall really bad. People still end up with sprained ankles while still clipping all the clips on sport routes. Is it still safe to say that close to all gym falls will be fine?
I cut some parts out of the video. It was about leading steeper overhangs if you are a nervous leader. This helped me a lot. I hate ledges!
Training your mind is like training a muscle. You have to pushed your comfort zone a little every time to get better but if you push too much too fast your going to pull a brain muscle!