I’ve been a climber for 45 years - DO NOT use figure 8’s when canyoneering on Sandstone! Your rope will inevitably collect sand that quickly becomes a course grit that can erode anodized aluminum startlingly fast. I took a new figure 8 down Lower Water Holes Canyon and by the end of thirteen rappels, the 8 surface was compromised and had to be retired.
Hi Don, good point! This goes also for muddy water etc. As you say, the rope becomes like sandpaper (sandrope lol) and eats any soft materials. One option is to go into caving descenders (also aluminum but easily replaceable parts), other option is getting a stainless steel descender instead of an aluminum one, like for example the devil-8 in stainless steel, which is much more resistant to wear and tear (but heavier).
@svenvancleemput Rappel devices should be made in stainless steel. Especially, when they're as small as these 8's. Maybe the Conterra Scarab, the CMC 3D, or the SMC Micro Rappel Rack. Have you tried any of these?
Thank you SVC. I ran across the figure 8 only a couple of days ago. Your vid popped up and it adds a lot to my learning. What I have been looking for is a safe way for climbing treestand hunters to get down. It's not mandatory, not taught, and not much thought about. But it ought to be. The figure 8 is looking real good to me.I need to get my ordered and make some experiments. Again, super thanks. Got your vid stashed in watch later. I'll be referring back to it.
Thanks for the easy to follow instructional video. Just getting into this for tree service at home. It is so expensive it’s allowing me to buy nice equipment and learn new things. Lots more learning to go before I am up a tree with a chainsaw
David Krummenacher According to Richard Delaney, Rope Lab about the Figure-8 A person can comfortably hold with one hand on 11mm rope the following: Standard Mode 150 lbs, Sport Mode 134 lbs and with two hands Standard Mode 517 lbs and Sport Mode 337 lbs.
Pop John According to Richard Delaney, Rope Lab about the Figure-8 A person can comfortably hold with one hand on 11mm rope the following: Standard Mode 150 lbs, Sport Mode 134 lbs and with two hands Standard Mode 517 lbs and Sport Mode 337 lbs.
Mark Adkins Accordingto Richard Delaney, Rope Lab about the Figure-8 A person can comfortably hold with one hand on 11mm rope the following: Standard Mode 150 lbs, Sport Mode 134 lbs and with two hands Standard Mode 517 lbs and Sport Mode 337 lbs. Never lose your Figure-8: Have the Figure-8 attached to the carabiner by the big hole. Pass the bight through the big hole and over the small hole, next flip and place onto the carabiner.
Another way to add friction without using more rope or going through karibiners is to flip the device the other way so you put a loop through the small eye and then over the top of the big eye and then clip karibiner to the big eye
Hey, thanks for your input! You are right, however, this only works if you have a small diameter, flexible rope and a figure of eight where the small hole is big enough, such as the 8 model of the brand "Faders".
@@svenvancleemput I stand corrected! Sorry I’m used to climbing trees with ropes not rocks haha , interesting to know about the faders, Learn something new everyday!
jaymie wharton According to Richard Delaney, Rope Lab about the Figure-8 A person can comfortably hold with one hand on 11mm rope the following: Standard Mode 150 lbs, Sport Mode 134 lbs and with two hands Standard Mode 517 lbs and Sport Mode 337 lbs.
Shintong Manalu Accordingto Richard Delaney, Rope Lab about the Figure-8 A person can comfortably hold with one hand on 11mm rope the following: Standard Mode 150 lbs, Sport Mode 134 lbs and with two hands Standard Mode 517 lbs and Sport Mode 337 lbs. Never lose your Figure-8: Have the Figure-8 attached to the carabiner by the big hole. Pass the bight through the big hole and over the small hole, next flip and place onto the carabiner.
Martin Rivera Accordingto Richard Delaney, Rope Lab about the Figure-8 A person can comfortably hold with one hand on 11mm rope the following: Standard Mode 150 lbs, Sport Mode 134 lbs and with two hands Standard Mode 517 lbs and Sport Mode 337 lbs. Never lose your Figure-8: Have the Figure-8 attached to the carabiner by the big hole. Pass the bight through the big hole and over the small hole, next flip and place onto the carabiner.
Colega...se te olvido lo mas obvio...usar el agujero pequeño del ocho...que es el que mas lento deja pasar la cuerda... y ese uso es por el cual el ocho tiene un agujero mas pequeño que el otro. Salut.
Hi! The answer is yes! All descenders can be locked using the universal way - a mule knot (in dutch alpine slip knoop and in french noeud de mule) secured by a stopper knot. I don’t recommend the technique where you pass the breaking rope between the eight and other rope, as this is very hard to undo in a free hanging abseil or under tension. It’s on my shortlist for making a video on it :-)
Hi! Good observation! Canyoning is a bit an exception to the uses in climbing. We do use a third hand - autoblocking system like a machard or other - but only in specific conditions. In general, when the waterfall is higher than 30m, and the most important condition: no water. The issue with a third hand is the problem of not being able to escape swiftly when in the water, with risk of drowning. But if you check my video on the Craponoz canyon with the 120m abseil, you'll see I'm putting in a backup ;)
Robby Natividad Accordingto Richard Delaney, Rope Lab about the Figure-8 A person can comfortably hold with one hand on 11mm rope the following: Standard Mode 150 lbs, Sport Mode 134 lbs and with two hands Standard Mode 517 lbs and Sport Mode 337 lbs. Never lose your Figure-8: Have the Figure-8 attached to the carabiner by the big hole. Pass the bight through the big hole and over the small hole, next flip and place onto the carabiner.
Citizens arrest is legal in the uk, and as long as the public know the correct law, then the public can and should perform a citizens arrest on them. Keep zip ties or duct tape in your car and you can take them to the side of the road and keep the there.
I’ve been a climber for 45 years - DO NOT use figure 8’s when canyoneering on Sandstone! Your rope will inevitably collect sand that quickly becomes a course grit that can erode anodized aluminum startlingly fast. I took a new figure 8 down Lower Water Holes Canyon and by the end of thirteen rappels, the 8 surface was compromised and had to be retired.
Hi Don, good point! This goes also for muddy water etc. As you say, the rope becomes like sandpaper (sandrope lol) and eats any soft materials. One option is to go into caving descenders (also aluminum but easily replaceable parts), other option is getting a stainless steel descender instead of an aluminum one, like for example the devil-8 in stainless steel, which is much more resistant to wear and tear (but heavier).
@svenvancleemput Rappel devices should be made in stainless steel. Especially, when they're as small as these 8's. Maybe the Conterra Scarab, the CMC 3D, or the SMC Micro Rappel Rack. Have you tried any of these?
Thank you SVC. I ran across the figure 8 only a couple of days ago. Your vid popped up and it adds a lot to my learning. What I have been looking for is a safe way for climbing treestand hunters to get down. It's not mandatory, not taught, and not much thought about. But it ought to be. The figure 8 is looking real good to me.I need to get my ordered and make some experiments. Again, super thanks. Got your vid stashed in watch later. I'll be referring back to it.
Thanks for the easy to follow instructional video. Just getting into this for tree service at home. It is so expensive it’s allowing me to buy nice equipment and learn new things. Lots more learning to go before I am up a tree with a chainsaw
As a heavy rappeller, I usually use the standard setup with VerTaco to for more friction
David Krummenacher According to Richard Delaney, Rope Lab about the Figure-8 A person can comfortably hold with one hand on 11mm rope the following: Standard Mode 150 lbs, Sport Mode 134 lbs and with two hands
Standard Mode 517 lbs and Sport Mode 337 lbs.
@@AMC-eq3jr Who uses or carries an 11mm rope when canyoneering? 8-9mm ropes are the ones I have experienced.
@@davidkrummenacher1570 what, you're not using 35mm jute? Damn kids got no respect for the classics.
Great lesson on the 8. Thanks for sharing.
Glad you liked the video! Thanks!
Thank you!
Really good information!
You're welcome!
Pop John According to Richard Delaney, Rope Lab about the Figure-8 A person can comfortably hold with one hand on 11mm rope the following: Standard Mode 150 lbs, Sport Mode 134 lbs and with two hands
Standard Mode 517 lbs and Sport Mode 337 lbs.
That was great! Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Mark Adkins Accordingto Richard Delaney, Rope Lab about the Figure-8 A person can comfortably hold with one hand on 11mm rope the following: Standard Mode 150 lbs, Sport Mode 134 lbs and with two hands
Standard Mode 517 lbs and Sport Mode 337 lbs.
Never lose your Figure-8: Have the Figure-8 attached to the carabiner by the big hole. Pass the bight through the big hole and over the small hole, next flip and place onto the carabiner.
Excellent job!
Excellent video
Another way to add friction without using more rope or going through karibiners is to flip the device the other way so you put a loop through the small eye and then over the top of the big eye and then clip karibiner to the big eye
Hey, thanks for your input! You are right, however, this only works if you have a small diameter, flexible rope and a figure of eight where the small hole is big enough, such as the 8 model of the brand "Faders".
@@svenvancleemput I stand corrected! Sorry I’m used to climbing trees with ropes not rocks haha , interesting to know about the faders, Learn something new everyday!
jaymie wharton According to Richard Delaney, Rope Lab about the Figure-8 A person can comfortably hold with one hand on 11mm rope the following: Standard Mode 150 lbs, Sport Mode 134 lbs and with two hands
Standard Mode 517 lbs and Sport Mode 337 lbs.
Good point
Very good. Thank you.
Nice lessons..
Thanks! 😃
Shintong Manalu Accordingto Richard Delaney, Rope Lab about the Figure-8 A person can comfortably hold with one hand on 11mm rope the following: Standard Mode 150 lbs, Sport Mode 134 lbs and with two hands
Standard Mode 517 lbs and Sport Mode 337 lbs.
Never lose your Figure-8: Have the Figure-8 attached to the carabiner by the big hole. Pass the bight through the big hole and over the small hole, next flip and place onto the carabiner.
Nice!
Thanks!
Martin Rivera Accordingto Richard Delaney, Rope Lab about the Figure-8 A person can comfortably hold with one hand on 11mm rope the following: Standard Mode 150 lbs, Sport Mode 134 lbs and with two hands
Standard Mode 517 lbs and Sport Mode 337 lbs.
Never lose your Figure-8: Have the Figure-8 attached to the carabiner by the big hole. Pass the bight through the big hole and over the small hole, next flip and place onto the carabiner.
Colega...se te olvido lo mas obvio...usar el agujero pequeño del ocho...que es el que mas lento deja pasar la cuerda... y ese uso es por el cual el ocho tiene un agujero mas pequeño que el otro. Salut.
😍
Try the rescue figure 8 , more options , more versatile
the last combination is quite cool.
but it takes extra 2 cab
Is there a way to lock the 8 in mid descent?
Hi! The answer is yes! All descenders can be locked using the universal way - a mule knot (in dutch alpine slip knoop and in french noeud de mule) secured by a stopper knot. I don’t recommend the technique where you pass the breaking rope between the eight and other rope, as this is very hard to undo in a free hanging abseil or under tension. It’s on my shortlist for making a video on it :-)
Great. Thank you
Do you back up with a third hand?
Hi! Good observation! Canyoning is a bit an exception to the uses in climbing. We do use a third hand - autoblocking system like a machard or other - but only in specific conditions. In general, when the waterfall is higher than 30m, and the most important condition: no water. The issue with a third hand is the problem of not being able to escape swiftly when in the water, with risk of drowning. But if you check my video on the Craponoz canyon with the 120m abseil, you'll see I'm putting in a backup ;)
@@svenvancleemput That makes sense, that you for the reply.
Cool…
Thanks! Hope it is useful :-)
@@svenvancleemput it is…. Thanks for this information. I will share to my friends
Robby Natividad Accordingto Richard Delaney, Rope Lab about the Figure-8 A person can comfortably hold with one hand on 11mm rope the following: Standard Mode 150 lbs, Sport Mode 134 lbs and with two hands
Standard Mode 517 lbs and Sport Mode 337 lbs.
Never lose your Figure-8: Have the Figure-8 attached to the carabiner by the big hole. Pass the bight through the big hole and over the small hole, next flip and place onto the carabiner.
That is the worst instructural video I have ever seen. Watching your chest with hands off camera. I have no idea how anyone could say otherwise.
Citizens arrest is legal in the uk, and as long as the public know the correct law, then the public can and should perform a citizens arrest on them. Keep zip ties or duct tape in your car and you can take them to the side of the road and keep the there.
thanks for the information dude. I didn't know that!!! I think you're on the wrond video tho :(